Dave - the time, effort, and KNOWLEDGE that you bring to each and every video is simply stunning. Thank you for sharing this with us. There's an entire generation of engineers trying to be as smart as you!
Great little series. You mentioned the magic word: Variables. Nothing is set in stone. So many things to be considered. The most complicated one is usually the musicians Lol.
I have been using iE4 for more than 10 years, the main thing that I did in them was to change the celicon to an individual custom acrylic in the ear, it really changes the sound in monitors, I agree on the high frequencies they sound a little dirty! Dave thank you very much for the very informative work! Good luck
There are definitely a lot of factors for IEMs I use to struggle with getting guitars to sound good when I was younger but then for most set ups transitioned to getting better mic placement when I could for most instruments and making sure they were tonally complimentary. Really just getting rid of the negative phasey stuff as much as possible. I think it's improved my ear in many audio disciplines. In priced out of the most expensive and end up having to take my ears out a lot so I've found the Sennheiser pro universals to be great. Thanks for the video series. Love the thoughtfulness of the videos.
I'm a firm believer in EQing your IEM mix to flatten the response of the IEMs and to make up for hearing loss for older musician like me. In all the sound technician channels I follow no one talks about this. It would be a good topic for discussion and demonstration. Also I've tried those hearing test app for my phone but none of them capture the full frequency range 250-8000 in 7 bands. It would be awesome if you created a hearing test app that did this to use in conjunction with your IEM channel EQ
Always pleased to watch a new video of yours. Thank for educating us. Not sure if you've done this, would love to see you compare and give thoughts on some popular drum mics.
Great study love it . Dave there are some other Amazon IEM that are said to sound really good. KZ ZX10 and a couple more KZ pro. Please do a part 4 to compare.
Two years ago my grandad rock band bought an XR18 mixer which gave us enough channels to have individual monitor mixes we can control ourselves, along with a six channel headphone amp and wired iems, we reduced the stage space we needed, and improved the front of house enormously. I bought a half dozen sets of £40 iems. Most reviews just have the opinion of the reviewer as to how the iems sound, so it is interesting to have a comparison which we can hear and can see the sound spectrum. So I am listening through a set of CCA C10s. These are my bass player's favourite, as he feels they enhance the bass when he uses them in a band setting. Off the top of my head we have TRN V80s, KZ AS10s also. Each of us have our own favourite for use in the band. What we all agree on are that we don't like the SE 215s that the harmonica player was persuaded to buy at his local music store. I listened to part one, and disliked all of the iems you demoed they appeared either brash or muffled, my impression did not change when I listend through a set of Sennheiser headphones. When I noticed the CCA C10s were covered in part 3 I skipped part 2. So in part 3 the CCAs performed poorly when compared to the L-Acoustics, but the L-Acoustics sound far better than any of the iems used in part 1, as do the CCAs. In a band situation the CCAs work great for me. I did fit memory foam tips, and later DIY custom moulds, which has improved performance further. Five of us sing, our harmonies are tighter and more confident, no-one has strained their voice trying to hear themselves in the mix, the £40 iems work for us. It would be interesting to hear how £2k iems work in our band situation, but I won't be forking out the cash to try them. That would pay for a handful of inexpensive, but competent, wireless sets, or a trip to visit my eldest in Spain or youngest in Canada if the borders ever re-open.
The LAs just inch out the Roxanne’s but it’s close. If you’re doing quiet stage gigs it would probably matter more than a noisier stage where the background noise would mask that nuance. Dave you are a genius mad scientist. I love your videos. This was really informative. Thanks
Thank you Dave! That was great. I am a bass player not a professional one but I do play few gigs and church stuff. Particularly I always struggle to invest a lot of money into in ears. It feels to me overpriced. I use the Shure SE 215 which are cheap compared to most in ears in the market. It allow me to use when riding my motorbike and when I need for gigs. Your video was super helpful as I could now hear the difference on each device. Once again thank you 🙏🏽.
Listening to this thru a custom set of the new JH Sharona. These things are AWESOME. I can really hear the difference in the top end with my set, but the bass and mids are still on par with the Roxannes.
Yeah with IEM and especially vocals on IEM you can really hurt people so the monitor engineer really has to know what they are doing with compression and limiting the volume. And we have enough nearly deaf musicians, there is no need for more. I.E. You know you have a problem, when the iem creates a feedback with a sensitive vocal microphone. 😂😂 Thanks for this little series of videos, it was really informative and eye opening. Now i want to have the LA IEM to try them out, but bc of covid, there is not the budget for that rn. :/ Greetings from Germany! :)
Really interesting to hear the relative differences between the iems. The guitar sounded like it was recorded on different amps when switching between iems. Pleased to see that adjusting the contour eq needs a tool and could not easily be done mid-gig by a musician. With my monitor engineer hat on, not being able to hear how their mix had been affected would definitely be a major problem. I think monitor engineering with iems involves as much psychology as engineering especially when introducing a musician to iems for the first time. But when you get them to say they never want to use wedges again and why hadn't they done this sooner it can be very satisfying.
Hey Dave, thank you for this 3 part series! Was very informational and the comparison of the sounds was great! If you make another video for in-ears would love to hear the difference in 64 a3 par, Easy KZ ZST and KZ AS16 Headphones.
I play kit in a very good corporate / wedding band. For the past 6 years I have been using £35 MEE Audio M6 pro inner phones often plugged into a £50 Behringer mixer. Never had any issue with them. As a drummer obviously I have to be in time and I also count in most of the songs. They are comfy, isolation from external noise is great and there is plenty of bottom end to keep up with my loudest playing in the kit, and I play very loud at times. I’m sure the more expensive innears have their plus points, but I have no need to up grade.
I am really happy with my Aurisonics ASG1 plus hybrids with 1 dynamic and 1 armature. They really pioneered the universal fit with mold comfort iem. Unfortunately, Aurisonics was purchased by fender in 2016 and eventually fender canceled their products because the previous owner Dale and their vision didn't line up. On the cheap end, KZ is offering some amazing value, although made in china. The KZ AS10s are amazingly accurate monitors which include 5 armatures per side for only $60! Most definitely worth the price and having as a beater pair or a loaner pair.
Thanks Dave - this is greatly appreciated. I'm an IEM virgin, just working through the purchasing decision for my first system for a small band. Very opportune time for this to show up :) I think I'm hearing a mechanical buzz/rattle in one of your fixtures. Stage L / house R. I'm hearing it with several of the demos.
@@DaveRat I first noticed it in part 2 when you were introducing the units you said you've used for years while bicycling and such. Heard it again in part 3, but don't remember where. I'f you'd like, I could list a time marker.
@@DaveRat As soon as the contour enter in this video, for one. I'll listen some more and provide other data here, then double back to the episode 2. I'm hearing it quite plainly. Of course I'm listening in a controlled environment. But if it makes it through UA-cam's compression... It's pretty well masked in the chorus. Listen on the verse. Yup - audible in the 'breakdown' post chor - where you've got the bass boost on - though not as evident as in first verse. Hearing it again at 6:43, though in comparison with the brash CCAs it's sublimated. Quite evident at 1:10, not so much by 1:35. On to part 2...
That's a tough one. Like a skier trying to save their knees or tennis player trying to save their elbow, or football player trying to save their brain from impacts. Loud exposure comes with consequences
I personally have tried Westone, Shure, UE, 64 Audio, and Gorilla Ears. I settled on 64 Audio a few years ago. I'm not super stoked with the enclosure quality but the sound quality is very musical to my ears while on stage. To be fair, however, once you get FOH and sidefills involved, it's hard to hear shit regardless of the in ear brand. Nuance gets lost in the dB. The L'Acoustics sounded the best when compared to the original source...but then, I think a lot of stage musicians prefer boosts and cuts based on their instrument and stage position. Great series, as usual.
@@DaveRat no....thank YOU for making geeky cool again. I always learn something from your channel. There arent many guys on UA-cam with the FOH experience, the background in electronics theory, and the artistic know-how when it comes to acoustics. Your channel is always informative.
"I've had enough of that!" 😂 Interesting observation that manufacturers add peaks to compensate for stage environment, but I see a lot of us using on buses and planes or wherever just for isolated playback. Have you found some that are true to the original music?
I think the manufacturers add peaks to compensate for internal ear aspects. That said, I am not convinced that the peaks are needed or often in the correct places if needed. This is shown by the drastic variations in the level and frequencies of the peaks between models and manufacturers. As far as models that are more true to the music, one way to test that is to put an in-ear in one ear and wear headphones over the other ear and that are flat or at least desirable sounding. Then select in ears that sound like the headphones. The closest for me so far have been the L-Acoustics Contour with the EQ set about 1/2 way up. With the Roxanne being quite close as well.
So now knowing I’m missing out on such a fuller sound, I need to experience these in person. This video is great, but is limited by whatever I’m listening through. Mine are $24 twisted pair with some sort of armature. Those CCA’s sound like a bad phone call through what I have on!
I think your L-Acoustic has a busted driver because there is clearly some buzzing going on with almost every bass note. It was present also in the part 2. Or maybe some debris inside... Or maybe not: balanced armatures are delicate and can suffer damage from a floor impact, as stated in several IEMs manuals. Many thanks for the interesting comparison!
I have a pair of those CCA C10 (in addition to various AKG, Sennheiser and Shure headphones) and while they are bright, mine are not as bad as the test implies. I've had them for a couple of years now and they do get some use while travelling. I blame it on lack of manufacturing consistency on these inexpensive items.
I too would be interested in seeing you test a pair of IEM from KZ (maybe the ZST or AS10). They are another paid of "cheap" Chinese IEM that a lot of "average Joe's" swear by. I'm talking about people that don't have a $2000 or even $1000 budget for IEM. I realize you probably don't want to start testing a ton of cheap stuff, but this brand does have a huge following and is used in a ton of churches, etc. I've never seen anyone be able to do a side by side comparison with them like you did with these other brands. Everyone says they are decent, but I would be really curious to see a side by side comparison like you just did. Thanks!
Hmmm, I see they are like $18 and $59. My take is that if they work for the application and people can hear and are happy with the outcome, all good. The aspects I did not mention regarding the CCA is that they are hollow and let in outside sound and have a plastic tinny sound to the shell housing. That said, with the price differences of $1000 or more, it's quite huge. My feelings are and maybe at some point, I hope to find and test products in the $100 to $400 range as there should be quality units in that range that offer nearly all the advantages of the high dollar stuff and address the cheap packaging and other issues of the low dollars stuff
@@DaveRat I'm actually listening to these videos through a pair of the KZ ZSTs, and I can hear all the differences pretty clearly. I would be curious as to how they compare to the actual signal if you figure out a way for us to test those.
Thank you. I think that the interwebs doesn't pay enough attention to the other end of the snake. I'd love to hear you compare Sensaphonics and 64 Audio. Again thanks. It was pretty informative.
Hey David, thank you for this videos. (Help Alot) I’m looking for new in-ears between Roxanne and La Acustic Contour witch one is more versatile for FOH, Monitors Mix and studio. Thank you.
They are both great. I prefer the L-acoustics a bit because they are polarity correct and also the EQ does a good job of sliding between the curve I like to listen to music with, sort of home HiFi sounding, to more flat for 7sing for in ear monitors. Though I do have a great relationship with both companies, Rat does purchase large amounts and our rental inventory is mostly L-acoustics. So take that potential bias into account. If you do decide L-acoustics, they did give me a 10% discount code that I think works on most or all products on their e-store DAVRAT10 Keep me updated!
This series is phenominal and very informative!! I'd love to hear your thoughts on the LA's vs the Layla's if you've gotten a chance to demo them. I'm considering a purchase but not sure when I can get to a store to demo the two.
I don't believe I demo's the Layla's. I think at that level, you can't really go wrong. The LA's do have what I believe to be some improved technology in the filtering brought to KH by the L'acoustics engineers. But they also chose JH to build as they are really good
those two peaks around 3k and 5k are an attempt to recreate some of the natural reflections you miss when circumventing the outer ear; which you would typically get when listening to a speaker system of headphones as the sound is reflected off of your outer ear into your canal. I believe it is called the Harmon Curve, could be wrong.
Yeah, it's interesting and I believe possibly a flawed plan. I say this because in ears with the peaks sound bright compared to listening to flat speakers or headphones
@@DaveRat Typically that "peaky" sounding HF is due to the silicone tube attached to the BA which creates unwanted resonance and distortion. full disclosure I'm with 64audio, love your videos been watching for years. Would love for you to hear our IEMs sometime.
@@DaveRat those boosts seem to be tied in with how our ears evolved to increase voice intelligibility and presence. Definitely a deep rabbit hole, haha
damn... I've been intrigued by Contour XO since they launched them, and this only furthers my desire to get them in my ears! I do wonder, however about the lack of pressure relief like I have on my 64 audio IEM's...
Definitely have the closest sonic profile to an Lacoustics PA of the ears I tested. The sub lows are quite good and smoother mid highs than most ears as they don't have that edgy peak
Actually Dave, I am now using another set of cans and with the Roxanne in the jig on your right, I no longer hear the buzzing. Seems to be more prominent when using the jig on your left, regardless of IEM.
Hey Dave, I have two major concerns about in ears, and they are FEEDBACK and UNINTENTIONAL High Volume ie. unmuting a high volume channel. Are my concerns realistic or are there safeguards in place? For years I've been using ear plugs to cut the volume and perhaps I'm just conditioned to expect that, which I've grown accustomed. No painful feedback or volume blasts in my head! I'm very impressed with the Audix A10's test result! I thought for sure they would have been more expensive! I thought they were closest to the original source music. The L Acoustics were also excellent sounding. I think they sounded the closest to the original source of the darker, flatter, expensive examples. This was very informative and well produced comparison video! 👍
For protection it is pretty common for the monitor engineer to put a hard limiter set to limit at any volume above the listening level. That way if there is an accidental blast, it won't get louder than the normal sound sent
Bone conduction of sound. When I asked the girls at my club why they all liked sitting on my Meyer subs, they said it was because it made the sound better. Who knew?
very interesting, im going to look into the audix ones, i thought they were very close for the price. but very comprehensive test. ive used the model up shure ones. wasn't impressed a driver blew not to long after buying them. cool test dude. i have a basic set from Stagg atm, not bad, but isolation isent as good at the shure ones.
Since UE started specializing in consumer audio I kinda let them fall off my radar. Jerry Harvey seems to be the man in pro touring these days. I'm curious if you've heard of Plunge Audio in Canada? Many of my engineer friends seem to be buying these but I'm not sure how many ears they're actually in onstage. Until further notice, I'm gonna go with JH.
Late comment, many months later… The XO is obviously great…. Side question - Is the Roxanne your favorite JH? And specifically - do the other JH models compare similarly to Rox? If you don’t know, I shall not hold it against you… Does XO come molded?
My only pairs of JH Audio in ears are the Roxanne and the L-Acoustics Contour made by JH. I did listen to several JH models and selected that JH as the ones I liked best when I got them and they are custom molds. I like the contours a bit better as the EQ on the contours works really well at transitioning the sound I seek to hear from live to recorded music sources
Have you tried the KZ ZS10 Pro? Another cheap ChiFi product but I can't complain as I can't spend a lot on IMs for casual listening. Amazon shows rough frequency response for both the CCA C10 and the KZ and the CCA plot does look similar to what you got so maybe the KZ may not be too bad.
I wonder how my IEM of the moment stacks up? I only have listened to a few, but I watched a lot of reviews before ordering the KZ ZSX's. I upgraded the cable (the KZ cable is awful). I could clearly hear the rolled off highs of the UE-18's and the exaggerated bass of some of the others. For reference I used the 2020 FIIO BTR5 connected by USB. Please show people what they can get for less than $100. They don't seem to be the most durable things in the world I'm on my fourth set in 3 years but I use them daily pretty much all day long. I think people will be surprised at how good some of these are.
It's so tough to quantify. Things like cable noise transmitted to the rwars with hollow plastic in ears like the KZM and durability vs cost and value. Ideally one would hit a level of success to where something so intimate and critical would be a "buy the best" scenario.
The in ears test unit is supposed to compensate for that but... More importantly we are comparing using the same setup and looking at and hearing the differences. And the differences seem to correlate well with the differences in the way the units sound.
I would find it very interesting to be able try out all of the different IEMs you have. I'm listening to you now with Talent DCD-2 Dynamic IEM earbud headphones plugged into a Signstek mini usb dac plugged into my computer. The earbuds are very inexpensive compared to the ones you have.
Though the video only sounds similar to the actual in ears. The differences between hearing the in ears and hearing them in the video are quite similar.
Been using a pair of KZ ZST-Pro in-ears off Amazon for the last year. A recommendation from a fellow drummer as my first in-ears. At $19 these blew my mind, not my ear drums! ; ). Wondered if anyone else found them viable? Would love to hear how these compare in your test?
They work and are inexpensive. The down side is cable noise and are kind of bright in the 3k range. If I recall correctly, they have a hollow hard plastic shell that has a bit of a sound to it
@@DaveRat There might be some shell noise, but luckily it's not prominent or problematic. Cable seems braided or twisted so no noise there. I do get a little distortion when group vocals kick in, but they do a good job protecting my ears from outside noise, while finally letting me hear my vocals and lead vocals, so a fine inexpensive solution for my amateur needs! Look forward to trying some of the higher-end versions you tested in the future!
Hey Dave, again a great Video. Thanks a lot as always. I am trying to start my carrier as a FOH Engineer ( in the very beginning stage). I work with a very loud Rockband, especially when we reherse ( i reherse with them too an my mixer) it is so loud sinde we have a small rented rehersal room. So i have 2 closeback on ear headphones, ATH-50X and DT-770 pro, but i still here the live sound not sound sound from the mixer. Therefore thinking of having a good IEM for Live mixing. Would you recomend me Contour XO? or do u recommend me Ultimate Ear UE live oder contour ( if you have any experience with that) thanks again in advance for you advice. Regards from Germany - Priyan
Would you be able to do a video showing what Klang does to the sound as you “pan” around? Or compare the outputs of popular consoles? (Rivage, Quantum/SD, Midas, S6L)
Hmmm, that is a bit too manufacturer specific for me. Though I occasionally do single product videos, I try not to. I prefer to focus on myth busting and showing interesting aspects that may be overlooked in sound.
Is it possible to measure the unwanted sound attenuation? cause even if it sound cool if i have to turn it up until i hurt my earing to cover the snare.I don't think it will work for touring. Thanks for your video!
The EQ on the contour is awesome. It lets you slide between hifi and pro in ear monitoring. So yeah, the contour allows me to listen to music as well as for monitors more so than the Roxanne which is more geared for live
@@DaveRat, that interesting I order contour xo a few weeks ago they will arrive next week I got them cause I don't find any roxanne aion on the market, I saw your video in this record it seems vocal on the roxanne is boxy and contour xo was more feeling like open sounding vocal and instruments if you had choose between one of them what it would be ( I will be really grateful if you could compare these two iem little more)
@@DaveRat after having contour for almost 2 months I can say I love them , whats your eq setting for them and you usually put bass control on which o'clock ? I think I don't need roxanne or layla for daily audiphole listening and they are enough for me
Hey Dave I was looking at your Instagram post on how to DIY sound absorption panels but R13 Cotton Insulation isn't available near me, any recommended alternatives.
Hmmm, no R13? Where do ya live? Should have it at every home or builder supply store and lumberyard. Or use R19 and separate it down to thinner. Or you could use lighter weight cotton fabric layered with soft fibrous fill like what would be in a pillow. The cotton will absorb but is too dense, the fill is fluffy but wont absorb much so layers of cotton and fill should work well.
Aha, you can use the rock wool version. More messy but still not as itchy as fiberglass. Or just use gloves and a long sleeve shirt and use fiberglass. Once it is sealed in the fabric, all good.
@@DaveRat Thanks so much for exploring room acoustics. It is the "invisible enemy" in every room, home studio, big time studio, bar, shed, ballroom, arena, etc. etc. Hmm... Room acoustics- Most people thing it is back art and voodoo. If you can fix the room acoustics all of your amplified audio will sound so much better. Even though I work for an acoustic treatment company this is not a sales plug. DIY is great but just make sure that you are using products that are fire rated and safe. Keep doing what you are doing. Dave. Knowledge is the key! Thanks for what you are doing with all of these informative videos!
@@DaveRat how is the bass of Layla compare with Roxanne? I’m trying to find any reviews between those two. Sometimes I regret it and think that I should have bought Layla instead of Roxanne.
When I demoed them all I preferred the Roxanne's but the laylas were good as well I don't remember all of the details but I did choose the Roxanne's over the Layla's
My fellow legendary teacher hello If you are able to test 64audio vs the jh ones i would be appriciate it much.. I recenlty bought 64audio a18s and they sound amazing with extreme headroom
Precision is expensive. People forget how much extra manufacturing cost is incurred by even a slight improvement in precision. As for reliability... that is very expensive to measure.
@@DaveRat Yeah, it's a never ending story. I got some KZs from a while ago. I like the ZS3s (around 10 dollar single drivers). I used them for mixing live and for casual listening. I also tryed the ES3 (meh) and the ZS6 (too harsh). But they all play in the SE15 league... Yeah the CCAs sounded horrible in the test. But I think it is great that you can get a good in ear experience, and I think a good mix on CCAs or KZs ist still better then mediocre wedges, for next to nothing. That's why there is so many reviews online, especially from the worship bands. They are not as professional as your video and 100% based on subjective listening. Anyways. Thanks for another great video. Greetings from Germany.
Dave - the time, effort, and KNOWLEDGE that you bring to each and every video is simply stunning. Thank you for sharing this with us. There's an entire generation of engineers trying to be as smart as you!
Thank you and I look forward to learning from you and them as you pass me up!
I love the way you make actually hearing these, possible here! Learned a lot, thank you Dave!
Thank you!
Really interesting - thanks for doing this series, Dave.
Thank you Curtis
it's so difficult to find Contour review, now that it's discontinued...Thank you for the thorough test!
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Sir... You are a wicked genius that finds time to educate the rest of us. THANK YOU! So informative - my favorite sound guy!
Thank you John!
Dave's videos are a hidden jewel in the 21st century swamp called UA-cam; thank you Dave, I enjoyed the three episodes quite a lot
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If your anything like me, id pay good money to spend a day with this absolute master! Great content as always
Thank you Tom!
This series was rad and SO informative. Thanks for all you do, Dave.
Thank you Steve!
Great little series. You mentioned the magic word: Variables. Nothing is set in stone. So many things to be considered. The most complicated one is usually the musicians Lol.
Thank you and agreed
I have been using iE4 for more than 10 years, the main thing that I did in them was to change the celicon to an individual custom acrylic in the ear, it really changes the sound in monitors, I agree on the high frequencies they sound a little dirty! Dave thank you very much for the very informative work! Good luck
Thank you Andrei!
'Okay, I've had enough of that....' now that gave me a giggle....
Great 3 part review, thanks Dave, from New Zealand
Thank you Stephen!
There are definitely a lot of factors for IEMs I use to struggle with getting guitars to sound good when I was younger but then for most set ups transitioned to getting better mic placement when I could for most instruments and making sure they were tonally complimentary. Really just getting rid of the negative phasey stuff as much as possible. I think it's improved my ear in many audio disciplines. In priced out of the most expensive and end up having to take my ears out a lot so I've found the Sennheiser pro universals to be great. Thanks for the video series. Love the thoughtfulness of the videos.
Thank you Brian
Awesome, thank you Dave. I have wanted to compare higher end to my Sure 215s but didn't want to spend the $$. Your demonstrations are fantastic.
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I'm a firm believer in EQing your IEM mix to flatten the response of the IEMs and to make up for hearing loss for older musician like me. In all the sound technician channels I follow no one talks about this. It would be a good topic for discussion and demonstration. Also I've tried those hearing test app for my phone but none of them capture the full frequency range 250-8000 in 7 bands. It would be awesome if you created a hearing test app that did this to use in conjunction with your IEM channel EQ
Always pleased to watch a new video of yours. Thank for educating us. Not sure if you've done this, would love to see you compare and give thoughts on some popular drum mics.
Cool cool, I will ponder a drum mic adventure
And I was thinking about the Lacoustics but man I think I Still like the Roxy. Thank you Dave, glad you made this video to compare them.
Cool cool thank you Daniel
Great study love it . Dave there are some other Amazon IEM that are said to sound really good. KZ ZX10 and a couple more KZ pro. Please do a part 4 to compare.
I will ponder doing more. I want to come up with a way to better sort out sound quality
Two years ago my grandad rock band bought an XR18 mixer which gave us enough channels to have individual monitor mixes we can control ourselves, along with a six channel headphone amp and wired iems, we reduced the stage space we needed, and improved the front of house enormously. I bought a half dozen sets of £40 iems.
Most reviews just have the opinion of the reviewer as to how the iems sound, so it is interesting to have a comparison which we can hear and can see the sound spectrum. So I am listening through a set of CCA C10s. These are my bass player's favourite, as he feels they enhance the bass when he uses them in a band setting. Off the top of my head we have TRN V80s, KZ AS10s also. Each of us have our own favourite for use in the band. What we all agree on are that we don't like the SE 215s that the harmonica player was persuaded to buy at his local music store.
I listened to part one, and disliked all of the iems you demoed they appeared either brash or muffled, my impression did not change when I listend through a set of Sennheiser headphones. When I noticed the CCA C10s were covered in part 3 I skipped part 2. So in part 3 the CCAs performed poorly when compared to the L-Acoustics, but the L-Acoustics sound far better than any of the iems used in part 1, as do the CCAs.
In a band situation the CCAs work great for me. I did fit memory foam tips, and later DIY custom moulds, which has improved performance further. Five of us sing, our harmonies are tighter and more confident, no-one has strained their voice trying to hear themselves in the mix, the £40 iems work for us. It would be interesting to hear how £2k iems work in our band situation, but I won't be forking out the cash to try them. That would pay for a handful of inexpensive, but competent, wireless sets, or a trip to visit my eldest in Spain or youngest in Canada if the borders ever re-open.
Cool co and yes, using what works is perfect!
The LAs just inch out the Roxanne’s but it’s close. If you’re doing quiet stage gigs it would probably matter more than a noisier stage where the background noise would mask that nuance. Dave you are a genius mad scientist. I love your videos. This was really informative. Thanks
Thank you! I think the big cool thing about the LAs is the eq. It slides between hifi and rock sounding. More useful than the Roxanne eq
Awesome,thank you for making this info available for all of us
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Would really like to see a comparison on the 64 Audio A12t. I changed to them from my UE18’s, incredible difference!
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Thank you Dave! That was great. I am a bass player not a professional one but I do play few gigs and church stuff. Particularly I always struggle to invest a lot of money into in ears. It feels to me overpriced. I use the Shure SE 215 which are cheap compared to most in ears in the market. It allow me to use when riding my motorbike and when I need for gigs. Your video was super helpful as I could now hear the difference on each device. Once again thank you 🙏🏽.
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Listening to this thru a custom set of the new JH Sharona. These things are AWESOME. I can really hear the difference in the top end with my set, but the bass and mids are still on par with the Roxannes.
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Yeah with IEM and especially vocals on IEM you can really hurt people so the monitor engineer really has to know what they are doing with compression and limiting the volume. And we have enough nearly deaf musicians, there is no need for more.
I.E.
You know you have a problem, when the iem creates a feedback with a sensitive vocal microphone. 😂😂
Thanks for this little series of videos, it was really informative and eye opening. Now i want to have the LA IEM to try them out, but bc of covid, there is not the budget for that rn. :/
Greetings from Germany! :)
Thank you Johannes!
Thanks for doing this series, Dave.
Thank you Anderson!
Really interesting to hear the relative differences between the iems. The guitar sounded like it was recorded on different amps when switching between iems. Pleased to see that adjusting the contour eq needs a tool and could not easily be done mid-gig by a musician. With my monitor engineer hat on, not being able to hear how their mix had been affected would definitely be a major problem. I think monitor engineering with iems involves as much psychology as engineering especially when introducing a musician to iems for the first time. But when you get them to say they never want to use wedges again and why hadn't they done this sooner it can be very satisfying.
Agreed and very cool
Hey Dave, thank you for this 3 part series! Was very informational and the comparison of the sounds was great!
If you make another video for in-ears would love to hear the difference in 64 a3 par, Easy KZ ZST and KZ AS16 Headphones.
👍 cool cool will see what I can do
Or the new KZ AST 24
May dive back in at some point.
I play kit in a very good corporate / wedding band. For the past 6 years I have been using £35 MEE Audio M6 pro inner phones often plugged into a £50 Behringer mixer.
Never had any issue with them.
As a drummer obviously I have to be in time and I also count in most of the songs.
They are comfy, isolation from external noise is great and there is plenty of bottom end to keep up with my loudest playing in the kit, and I play very loud at times.
I’m sure the more expensive innears have their plus points, but I have no need to up grade.
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I am really happy with my Aurisonics ASG1 plus hybrids with 1 dynamic and 1 armature. They really pioneered the universal fit with mold comfort iem. Unfortunately, Aurisonics was purchased by fender in 2016 and eventually fender canceled their products because the previous owner Dale and their vision didn't line up. On the cheap end, KZ is offering some amazing value, although made in china. The KZ AS10s are amazingly accurate monitors which include 5 armatures per side for only $60! Most definitely worth the price and having as a beater pair or a loaner pair.
Cool cool, got several requests to test the KZ. Will see what I can do
Thanks Dave - this is greatly appreciated. I'm an IEM virgin, just working through the purchasing decision for my first system for a small band. Very opportune time for this to show up :)
I think I'm hearing a mechanical buzz/rattle in one of your fixtures. Stage L / house R. I'm hearing it with several of the demos.
Someone else mentioned that, will check into it
@@DaveRat I first noticed it in part 2 when you were introducing the units you said you've used for years while bicycling and such. Heard it again in part 3, but don't remember where. I'f you'd like, I could list a time marker.
That would be helpful
@@DaveRat As soon as the contour enter in this video, for one. I'll listen some more and provide other data here, then double back to the episode 2. I'm hearing it quite plainly. Of course I'm listening in a controlled environment. But if it makes it through UA-cam's compression...
It's pretty well masked in the chorus. Listen on the verse.
Yup - audible in the 'breakdown' post chor - where you've got the bass boost on - though not as evident as in first verse.
Hearing it again at 6:43, though in comparison with the brash CCAs it's sublimated.
Quite evident at 1:10, not so much by 1:35.
On to part 2...
Thank you!
Fantastic series. Thank you for doing it.
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I bought the roxannes right when they came out…love them!!! I’m ready to get new les because it’s been years now and my ears are different now.
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I would love a video on how you preserve your hearing. what good tips do you recommend?
That's a tough one. Like a skier trying to save their knees or tennis player trying to save their elbow, or football player trying to save their brain from impacts.
Loud exposure comes with consequences
brutal master, gracias por tomarte la molestia de hacer semejante montaje para el experimento. ;)
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Great series Dave
The lacoustics obviously are amazing but super surprised by the audix A10’s too
Audix are cool, also they are ported so not as much isolation
ahh right ....good to know ! Thanks!
Would love to see some testing on spl at different frequencies in an in-ear system.
I may dive into that. I've done like 15 vids on in ears though and due for a break
I personally have tried Westone, Shure, UE, 64 Audio, and Gorilla Ears. I settled on 64 Audio a few years ago. I'm not super stoked with the enclosure quality but the sound quality is very musical to my ears while on stage. To be fair, however, once you get FOH and sidefills involved, it's hard to hear shit regardless of the in ear brand. Nuance gets lost in the dB.
The L'Acoustics sounded the best when compared to the original source...but then, I think a lot of stage musicians prefer boosts and cuts based on their instrument and stage position. Great series, as usual.
Thank you Sean!
@@DaveRat no....thank YOU for making geeky cool again. I always learn something from your channel. There arent many guys on UA-cam with the FOH experience, the background in electronics theory, and the artistic know-how when it comes to acoustics. Your channel is always informative.
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"I've had enough of that!" 😂
Interesting observation that manufacturers add peaks to compensate for stage environment, but I see a lot of us using on buses and planes or wherever just for isolated playback.
Have you found some that are true to the original music?
I think the manufacturers add peaks to compensate for internal ear aspects. That said, I am not convinced that the peaks are needed or often in the correct places if needed. This is shown by the drastic variations in the level and frequencies of the peaks between models and manufacturers. As far as models that are more true to the music, one way to test that is to put an in-ear in one ear and wear headphones over the other ear and that are flat or at least desirable sounding. Then select in ears that sound like the headphones. The closest for me so far have been the L-Acoustics Contour with the EQ set about 1/2 way up. With the Roxanne being quite close as well.
This is so cool, David!
Thank you Jersson!
Great comparisons! thank you for making this kind of content! very informative :)
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Pink noise gate is the way I learned how to square harmonics in any situation. Not so much used anymore but so important.
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So now knowing I’m missing out on such a fuller sound, I need to experience these in person. This video is great, but is limited by whatever I’m listening through. Mine are $24 twisted pair with some sort of armature. Those CCA’s sound like a bad phone call through what I have on!
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I think your L-Acoustic has a busted driver because there is clearly some buzzing going on with almost every bass note. It was present also in the part 2.
Or maybe some debris inside... Or maybe not: balanced armatures are delicate and can suffer damage from a floor impact, as stated in several IEMs manuals. Many thanks for the interesting comparison!
I sent the calibrator in for repair and they found an issue that caused the rattle
OMG even on my mobile phone speaker the difference is actually frightening.
Amazing, right!
I have a pair of those CCA C10 (in addition to various AKG, Sennheiser and Shure headphones) and while they are bright, mine are not as bad as the test implies. I've had them for a couple of years now and they do get some use while travelling. I blame it on lack of manufacturing consistency on these inexpensive items.
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I too would be interested in seeing you test a pair of IEM from KZ (maybe the ZST or AS10). They are another paid of "cheap" Chinese IEM that a lot of "average Joe's" swear by. I'm talking about people that don't have a $2000 or even $1000 budget for IEM. I realize you probably don't want to start testing a ton of cheap stuff, but this brand does have a huge following and is used in a ton of churches, etc. I've never seen anyone be able to do a side by side comparison with them like you did with these other brands. Everyone says they are decent, but I would be really curious to see a side by side comparison like you just did. Thanks!
Hmmm, I see they are like $18 and $59.
My take is that if they work for the application and people can hear and are happy with the outcome, all good.
The aspects I did not mention regarding the CCA is that they are hollow and let in outside sound and have a plastic tinny sound to the shell housing.
That said, with the price differences of $1000 or more, it's quite huge.
My feelings are and maybe at some point, I hope to find and test products in the $100 to $400 range as there should be quality units in that range that offer nearly all the advantages of the high dollar stuff and address the cheap packaging and other issues of the low dollars stuff
@@DaveRat I'm actually listening to these videos through a pair of the KZ ZSTs, and I can hear all the differences pretty clearly. I would be curious as to how they compare to the actual signal if you figure out a way for us to test those.
Cool cool, will see what I can do
Thank you. I think that the interwebs doesn't pay enough attention to the other end of the snake. I'd love to hear you compare Sensaphonics and 64 Audio. Again thanks. It was pretty informative.
Will see what I can do. I will look at taking another dive into testing after I get some other vids sorted
Hey David,
thank you for this videos. (Help Alot)
I’m looking for new in-ears between Roxanne and La Acustic Contour witch one is more versatile for FOH, Monitors Mix and studio.
Thank you.
They are both great. I prefer the L-acoustics a bit because they are polarity correct and also the EQ does a good job of sliding between the curve I like to listen to music with, sort of home HiFi sounding, to more flat for 7sing for in ear monitors.
Though I do have a great relationship with both companies, Rat does purchase large amounts and our rental inventory is mostly L-acoustics. So take that potential bias into account.
If you do decide L-acoustics, they did give me a 10% discount code that I think works on most or all products on their e-store DAVRAT10
Keep me updated!
This series is phenominal and very informative!! I'd love to hear your thoughts on the LA's vs the Layla's if you've gotten a chance to demo them. I'm considering a purchase but not sure when I can get to a store to demo the two.
I don't believe I demo's the Layla's.
I think at that level, you can't really go wrong. The LA's do have what I believe to be some improved technology in the filtering brought to KH by the L'acoustics engineers.
But they also chose JH to build as they are really good
those two peaks around 3k and 5k are an attempt to recreate some of the natural reflections you miss when circumventing the outer ear; which you would typically get when listening to a speaker system of headphones as the sound is reflected off of your outer ear into your canal. I believe it is called the Harmon Curve, could be wrong.
Yeah, it's interesting and I believe possibly a flawed plan.
I say this because in ears with the peaks sound bright compared to listening to flat speakers or headphones
@@DaveRat Typically that "peaky" sounding HF is due to the silicone tube attached to the BA which creates unwanted resonance and distortion. full disclosure I'm with 64audio, love your videos been watching for years. Would love for you to hear our IEMs sometime.
@@DaveRat those boosts seem to be tied in with how our ears evolved to increase voice intelligibility and presence. Definitely a deep rabbit hole, haha
Great to meet you Filipp and I'd be great to hear them!
damn... I've been intrigued by Contour XO since they launched them, and this only furthers my desire to get them in my ears! I do wonder, however about the lack of pressure relief like I have on my 64 audio IEM's...
I really do like the Contour, especially the EQ that takes them from flat to Hi-Fi sounding
@@DaveRat awesome! Would you say they sound like an LA PA in a perfect room as they advertise?
Definitely have the closest sonic profile to an Lacoustics PA of the ears I tested. The sub lows are quite good and smoother mid highs than most ears as they don't have that edgy peak
Actually Dave, I am now using another set of cans and with the Roxanne in the jig on your right, I no longer hear the buzzing. Seems to be more prominent when using the jig on your left, regardless of IEM.
Interesting, I will look into it further
Hey Dave, I have two major concerns about in ears, and they are FEEDBACK and UNINTENTIONAL High Volume ie. unmuting a high volume channel.
Are my concerns realistic or are there safeguards in place?
For years I've been using ear plugs to cut the volume and perhaps I'm just conditioned to expect that, which I've grown accustomed. No painful feedback or volume blasts in my head!
I'm very impressed with the Audix A10's test result!
I thought for sure they would have been more expensive!
I thought they were closest to the original source music.
The L Acoustics were also excellent sounding.
I think they sounded the closest to the original source of the darker, flatter, expensive examples.
This was very informative and well produced comparison video! 👍
For protection it is pretty common for the monitor engineer to put a hard limiter set to limit at any volume above the listening level. That way if there is an accidental blast, it won't get louder than the normal sound sent
@@DaveRat that makes me feel much better about it. Ill be sure to double check with the engineer should i decide to try them out!
Thank you very much!
Bone conduction of sound. When I asked the girls at my club why they all liked sitting on my Meyer subs, they said it was because it made the sound better. Who knew?
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I loved this video. Do you have any information comparing the L’Acoustics Contour XO to the Westone ES80?
I don't have any questions though westone did reach out to me and if I dive back into in ear testing will include them
very interesting, im going to look into the audix ones, i thought they were very close for the price. but very comprehensive test. ive used the model up shure ones. wasn't impressed a driver blew not to long after buying them. cool test dude. i have a basic set from Stagg atm, not bad, but isolation isent as good at the shure ones.
Yeah, the audix have a port so the isolation will not be as much as the shure or other sealed ears
LA seems to bring the sound in a wider way and somehow more clear. They seem better, at least listening from youtube :)
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Since UE started specializing in consumer audio I kinda let them fall off my radar. Jerry Harvey seems to be the man in pro touring these days. I'm curious if you've heard of Plunge Audio in Canada? Many of my engineer friends seem to be buying these but I'm not sure how many ears they're actually in onstage. Until further notice, I'm gonna go with JH.
JH makes good stuff. Just know that all JH in ears are polarity reversed to the rest of the industry
Super. Many thanks
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To me the LA sound better than the Roxanne
I agree
For stage I rather to have that warm sound than the brightness sound from LA
Late comment, many months later…
The XO is obviously great…. Side question - Is the Roxanne your favorite JH? And specifically - do the other JH models compare similarly to Rox? If you don’t know, I shall not hold it against you…
Does XO come molded?
My only pairs of JH Audio in ears are the Roxanne and the L-Acoustics Contour made by JH.
I did listen to several JH models and selected that JH as the ones I liked best when I got them and they are custom molds. I like the contours a bit better as the EQ on the contours works really well at transitioning the sound I seek to hear from live to recorded music sources
Have you tried the KZ ZS10 Pro? Another cheap ChiFi product but I can't complain as I can't spend a lot on IMs for casual listening. Amazon shows rough frequency response for both the CCA C10 and the KZ and the CCA plot does look similar to what you got so maybe the KZ may not be too bad.
I will look into testing them
I wonder how my IEM of the moment stacks up? I only have listened to a few, but I watched a lot of reviews before ordering the KZ ZSX's. I upgraded the cable (the KZ cable is awful). I could clearly hear the rolled off highs of the UE-18's and the exaggerated bass of some of the others. For reference I used the 2020 FIIO BTR5 connected by USB. Please show people what they can get for less than $100. They don't seem to be the most durable things in the world I'm on my fourth set in 3 years but I use them daily pretty much all day long. I think people will be surprised at how good some of these are.
It's so tough to quantify. Things like cable noise transmitted to the rwars with hollow plastic in ears like the KZM and durability vs cost and value.
Ideally one would hit a level of success to where something so intimate and critical would be a "buy the best" scenario.
Thank You. Fantastic information.
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To what extent does inserting sound midway in the ear canal shape the sound differently than sound played outside the ear (headphones)?
The in ears test unit is supposed to compensate for that but...
More importantly we are comparing using the same setup and looking at and hearing the differences.
And the differences seem to correlate well with the differences in the way the units sound.
I would find it very interesting to be able try out all of the different IEMs you have. I'm listening to you now with Talent DCD-2 Dynamic IEM earbud headphones plugged into a Signstek mini usb dac plugged into my computer. The earbuds are very inexpensive compared to the ones you have.
Though the video only sounds similar to the actual in ears. The differences between hearing the in ears and hearing them in the video are quite similar.
Been using a pair of KZ ZST-Pro in-ears off Amazon for the last year. A recommendation from a fellow drummer as my first in-ears. At $19 these blew my mind, not my ear drums! ; ). Wondered if anyone else found them viable? Would love to hear how these compare in your test?
They work and are inexpensive. The down side is cable noise and are kind of bright in the 3k range.
If I recall correctly, they have a hollow hard plastic shell that has a bit of a sound to it
@@DaveRat There might be some shell noise, but luckily it's not prominent or problematic. Cable seems braided or twisted so no noise there. I do get a little distortion when group vocals kick in, but they do a good job protecting my ears from outside noise, while finally letting me hear my vocals and lead vocals, so a fine inexpensive solution for my amateur needs!
Look forward to trying some of the higher-end versions you tested in the future!
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Hey Dave, again a great Video. Thanks a lot as always. I am trying to start my carrier as a FOH Engineer ( in the very beginning stage). I work with a very loud Rockband, especially when we reherse ( i reherse with them too an my mixer) it is so loud sinde we have a small rented rehersal room. So i have 2 closeback on ear headphones, ATH-50X and DT-770 pro, but i still here the live sound not sound sound from the mixer. Therefore thinking of having a good IEM for Live mixing. Would you recomend me Contour XO? or do u recommend me Ultimate Ear UE live oder contour ( if you have any experience with that) thanks again in advance for you advice. Regards from Germany - Priyan
I like the contours not only for live sound but the EQ on the cable makes them good for music listening as well.
@@DaveRat Thanks a lot Dave
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Any feelings about Knowledge Zenith's IEM's? Maybe AST 24's?
Done testing in ears for while. May dive back in at some point
Would you be able to do a video showing what Klang does to the sound as you “pan” around? Or compare the outputs of popular consoles? (Rivage, Quantum/SD, Midas, S6L)
Hmmm, that is a bit too manufacturer specific for me. Though I occasionally do single product videos, I try not to. I prefer to focus on myth busting and showing interesting aspects that may be overlooked in sound.
Is it possible to measure the unwanted sound attenuation? cause even if it sound cool if i have to turn it up until i hurt my earing to cover the snare.I don't think it will work for touring.
Thanks for your video!
Higher quality ears offer much better attenuation. I can work on doing a test and demo.
Great video. 🙂👍❤
Thank you 👍
Hi Dave. Have you ever got your hands on the UE RR model? I really wished it was in your line up!
I have not, I may do some more in your testing at some point but it'll probably be a while
@@DaveRat ok thanks Dave
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Was JH Roxanne custom mold or Universal fit?
Custom mold
Just curious Dave....out of all of these, what were your favourites?
The Roxanne are good, the L-acoustics have the best lows and clarity. The stealth Sonic's are smooth and least obtrusive for plane flights and such
@@DaveRat Yeah it seemed to me from your tests that I liked the L-acoustics the best followed by the Roxanne....Thanks SO much for doing this!!
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Hi, you look like Sean Penn. Thanks,
Ha and that's a good thing!
Which vocal and midrange do you prefer between Roxanne and contour xo for listening?
The EQ on the contour is awesome. It lets you slide between hifi and pro in ear monitoring.
So yeah, the contour allows me to listen to music as well as for monitors more so than the Roxanne which is more geared for live
@@DaveRat, that interesting I order contour xo a few weeks ago they will arrive next week I got them cause I don't find any roxanne aion on the market, I saw your video in this record it seems vocal on the roxanne is boxy and contour xo was more feeling like open sounding vocal and instruments if you had choose between one of them what it would be ( I will be really grateful if you could compare these two iem little more)
I like them both but prefer the contour
@@DaveRat after having contour for almost 2 months I can say I love them , whats your eq setting for them and you usually put bass control on which o'clock ?
I think I don't need roxanne or layla for daily audiphole listening and they are enough for me
I have not used them enough to settle on a consistant setting
Hey Dave I was looking at your Instagram post on how to DIY sound absorption panels but R13 Cotton Insulation isn't available near me, any recommended alternatives.
Hmmm, no R13? Where do ya live? Should have it at every home or builder supply store and lumberyard. Or use R19 and separate it down to thinner. Or you could use lighter weight cotton fabric layered with soft fibrous fill like what would be in a pillow. The cotton will absorb but is too dense, the fill is fluffy but wont absorb much so layers of cotton and fill should work well.
@@DaveRat East Coast. None of the R13 cotton, only R13 Fiberglass. The R13 cotton is online but unavailable!
Aha, you can use the rock wool version. More messy but still not as itchy as fiberglass. Or just use gloves and a long sleeve shirt and use fiberglass. Once it is sealed in the fabric, all good.
@@DaveRat Thanks so much for exploring room acoustics. It is the "invisible enemy" in every room, home studio, big time studio, bar, shed, ballroom, arena, etc. etc. Hmm... Room acoustics- Most people thing it is back art and voodoo. If you can fix the room acoustics all of your amplified audio will sound so much better. Even though I work for an acoustic treatment company this is not a sales plug. DIY is great but just make sure that you are using products that are fire rated and safe. Keep doing what you are doing. Dave. Knowledge is the key! Thanks for what you are doing with all of these informative videos!
Agreed on the fire rated and safety and great to meet ya.
I would like to hear Laylas test
Ohh, yeah, don't have any but they do sound good
@@DaveRat how is the bass of Layla compare with Roxanne?
I’m trying to find any reviews between those two.
Sometimes I regret it and think that I should have bought Layla instead of Roxanne.
When I demoed them all I preferred the Roxanne's but the laylas were good as well I don't remember all of the details but I did choose the Roxanne's over the Layla's
@@DaveRat thank you master! I love your videos
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Hi, man, how are you?
Good good
My fellow legendary teacher hello
If you are able to test 64audio vs the jh ones i would be appriciate it much..
I recenlty bought 64audio a18s and they sound amazing with extreme headroom
Hmmm, I don't think I will get back to in ear testing for a while. Have moved on to other projects
@@DaveRat ofc mr dave i fully understand.. anyway even this was enough much. Thanks a lot
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7:21 lol
👍 yeah, no reason to linger there
Precision is expensive. People forget how much extra manufacturing cost is incurred by even a slight improvement in precision.
As for reliability... that is very expensive to measure.
True
Try the Chinese KZs
I will look at buying and doing a quick test on them
@@DaveRat Buy the KZ ZSN 10 Pro
I think what I will do is figure out a way for people to test their in ears. There are too many cheap ears out there to dive I to that adventure
@@DaveRat Yeah, it's a never ending story. I got some KZs from a while ago. I like the ZS3s (around 10 dollar single drivers). I used them for mixing live and for casual listening. I also tryed the ES3 (meh) and the ZS6 (too harsh). But they all play in the SE15 league...
Yeah the CCAs sounded horrible in the test. But I think it is great that you can get a good in ear experience, and I think a good mix on CCAs or KZs ist still better then mediocre wedges, for next to nothing. That's why there is so many reviews online, especially from the worship bands. They are not as professional as your video and 100% based on subjective listening.
Anyways. Thanks for another great video. Greetings from Germany.
You hit the nail on the head. My goal was to let the viewer do the subjective listening and remove myself from the equation.