I have been magnetizing everything I painted this last year... Not about WYSIWYG (I don't play, just paint and collect as if I did) But it makes the models posable, you can create non-permanent conversions, mix and match, comfortably paint and storage parts, and if they fall, they don't break, just come apart...
Here's my issue. I have been playing since 1st ed and seen a lot through the years. I perfer my models to be as accurate as possible to represent them on the tabletop so there is no confusion for my opponent. However, I play a Harlequin only force which for some strange reason, doesn't include all the wargear options in the kit you buy. I flat out refuse to buy 8 extra boxes of troupe so they can all be armed with fusion pistols at $50 a pop. Actually stopped going to matched play events because i got tired of explaining to people why they weren't wysiwyg and being told the my list wasn't legal. If your list is approved by the TO, it shouldn't matter. I really get tired of hearing "it's an investment" as I have about $3k "invested" already.
If your army is 90% WYSIWYG I think it is fine. If it is 90% proxys (and not cool conversions but instead just a confusing bunch of random choices to remember) then I think it is too far. Make it easy on your opponent is all I am saying.
For me, all that matters is visual clarity. If I can say "oh, yeah, I can see that" as you explain a proxy/conversion choice, then all's good. For example, say someone's playing a Guard Kill Team. The plasma doesn't have to look like plasma, the scions don't have to look like scions. But at the very least, the plasma should look like a hard-hitting ranged weapon, and the scion should look different from the guard.
WYSIWYG is a great guideline for kitbashing and scratch building proxies, making something look the part it's supposed to play while also being creative with it.
The Battlefront 2 (2005) character you're talking about was the Clone Commander with the minigun. Its model was based on the Galactic Marines that were part of Ki-Adi-Mundi's battalion on Mygeeto in Revenge of the Sith.
I'm old and have slight OCD (60's and ex-military 26 yrs) so everything has to be WYSIWYG, which has cost me a fortune and a huge bitz box lol. But would not have it any other way. Great work love your channel.
I wanted WYSIWYG Tau Fire Warriors (newest kit), so I magnetized them... Like all of it... Not just weapons... Pauldrons, heads and backpacks too... Easy to say that they were prone to exploding... It was annoying so I just took as many magnets out as I could and used CA glue to put them together. The only models I've kept magnetizing were Broadsides and Crisis Battlesuits.
yeah, WYSIWYG doesn't matter to me, i just stick on what's cooler, and in game i say who has what. i am going to magnetise my knight when i get it because everything looks cool, but not neccesarily for WYSIWYG. btw WYSIWIG sounds funny
the problem is when you do that you're giving your opponent extra things to remember which isn't really fair. its not so bad if say all your imperial guard squads have the same loadout but if they are all using different equipment and some arnt as they appear it can get super confusing
I like WYSIWYG for my army, but so long as my opponent explains if things have something they aren't modelled with, that's fine. Sometimes it can get confusing but most of the time it's fine. It's really tough to start an army and understand exactly what things you should use. I play Imperial Fists and thought it would be cool for all my intercessor sergeants to have power fists. When I actually got to playing the game I then realised that power fists can kind of be a bit sucky because of the -1 to hit and an extra 10% points cost for a 5 man squad is a lot to put down for something you might not even get a chance to use. I find these wargear options are often used when you have a little bit of budget left over when building a list. Oh I have 15 points remaining, guess my assault intercessor sergeant is getting a plasma pistol and a power fist. Things like sergeant loadouts, unless you go crazy with magnetising or making many different spares for the different combos, you're going to have a hard time making your army WISYWIG. Also auto bolters are the best
In a friendly game, as long as its close to the model, I don't care what weapons are on the model. We go through the lists before the start of the game so we know when a unit has different loadout (that heavy bolter is a multi melta, those gants have devourers instead freshborers, etc.).
As some one who is new to the hobby, reading some warhammer forums about wysiwyg because I kinda mix matched my goblins. I got some fanatics and made up some of them as the spore splatter guys cause they looked cool. I didn't realize that was important. I dont have a whole lot of money, being a college student, so I dont really wanna go buy 2 more boxes of grots because my models cant be used.
I just getting into Kill Team, and WYSIWYG matters .. to a point. When oponent at start of game hides behind structures and then slowly getting out in all directions ... it's easier to make decisions knowing which model is which. What side went heavy hitters or tough guys. But still if on field is just one guy with flamer I can just place model with melta. When you play just to play and available models start to limit you .. throw WISIWYG outside the window. Just keep clear what is what. When one of your 4 identical models suddenly has something heavier even replace it with completely different model or just bottle cap. WISIWYG should not a limit but a part of the fun. If it's not fun then don't bother ;-)
Yeah it is much easier to remember in game what weapons your models are equipped with, when the models are really equipped with them. Therefore I startet to magnetise most stuff, but I also use many alternative miniatures, when they look really similar.
Me and my mates used to buy every single codex between us and then use my extensive collection to proxy as anything. Made for hundreds of interesting battles as you could literally play anything. Also bikers as well as large monsters/vehicles were pizza box cut out base sizes and a old school green horde of orks was 100 2p's Good times
Only paint, rarely play, but “rule of cool” applies for me. So my primaris outriders with SoB sidecars with flamers always make the game board. My friends just agree to points increase. Same with my jump pack dreadnaught ( gotta keep up with the jump pack smack captain and assault troops)
@@jasonmolenaar119 I tend to kitbash a lot. In my head canon there is some blood angels servitor trysting to explain to it’s tech marine boss where the spare engines to the Storm Raven went. My ultramarines of course had nothing to do with it
That’s the great thing with tabletop games. When playing with cool friends, the rules tend to more of guidelines when it comes to models and army lists. As long as there is a cool kitbash and an even better backstory, it usually makes the table
I'm fully ok with proxy, especally among friendly matches. :) Though I do try to go WYSIWYG because I sometimes have memory issues, and can sometimes forget. Hell, I use a Heavyarms gundam in place of a Dreadknight because it just looks better, was able to mount weapons very easily, and admittedly, was a lot less expensive.
i’ll second those little sanding sticks, best decision i ever made for my hobby. really helped me get all the mold lines from the finicky bits on aos plague claws
My Flesh Tearers have chain axes instead of chainswords and their bladeguard have power axes instead of the power swords; no one has complained. I think as long as you are consistent (all of these axes are swords) and it is still clear at a glance (chain weapons are chain weapons, power are power, etc) what each option is, it really isn't a big deal. Oh, and showing up with a fully painted army to decent or better quality always helps.
For me Rule Of Cool overrides pretty much everything else. I'm here to have fun not metagame, and magnetizing anything smaller than a tank or APC is a pain in the butt because of how small and fiddly they can get. I tend to build armies based on how I think the unit would be set up, a rifle squad has mostly rifles with maybe a grenade launcher or other special weapon to add that extra bit of firepower to the squad or I split the weapon types between half the squad. A heavy weapon team is usually set up to support the heavy weapon and so on and that's how I play on the table top as well. For example if there's a slow moving, heavy hitting unit I'll usually match it with some quicker units to cover it's weaknesses. Centurion Devastators are a perfect example of this, the squad leader gets the special weapon (either the grav Cannon + grav amp or the twin Lascannon) and the other two get heavy bolters to covering their leader. But that doesn't stop me from building what looks cool regardless of whether or not it's a feasible unit. People that metagame ttwgs like 40k, kill team, and so in honestly drive me mad. They take something that's supposed to be a fun, enjoyable and entertaining hobby and make it so that if you don't always play competitively then you shouldn't be part of the hobby at all.
I love how it can matter with certain things but not with others. Like grenades which didnt even used to be a bit but are now a bit. But maybe aren't used as much because it's another annoying little thing to glue to the model. I get it. I like to put them in interesting places too. But one day they will just work them back into the sculpt of the models beltline.
For the pigments, use some alcohol or get pigment fixer. Just plop drops from the end of your brush ( let the capillary action work for you) and it will keep your pigments in place. They aren't really for building up body on their own. They work well in conjunction with the pastes.
I'm split. I've always tried to be as close to WYSIWYG as possible but I love the aesthetic of the Scorpius Whirlwind and so will gleefully field it as a regular Whirlwind because it looks so good. On the other hand I have called out people for using an empty monster base in a game store
@@stevetuh4298 conversions, kitbashes, 3rd party minis and components are all good. I think the moment an empty base lands on table you might as well just deploy the box it came in without ever opening it. 😜
Ideally, I'd like all of my models to be WYSIWYG, but GW's pricing and boxing practices make that impractical at best and absurdly expensive at worst. My Chaos Terminators all have powerfists and combi-meltas, but only 2 of the models are equipped that way; the rest have either a chainfist or a power maul with a different combi-weapon. I'm not buying a second $60 box of models just for a couple powerfists and combi-meltas. Until GW starts putting more options in the boxes, there's absolutely no reasonable expectation that can be had for all models to look exactly how they are equipped in the army list. It's important to make sure both parties are aware of what the other actually has on the table, and the proxies should be within reason.
I'm quite new so I try to keep to WYSIWYG a decent amount, 90% or so of my Necrons are WYSIWYG, the only ones that aren't are my Overlord with Res Orb model that I run as having a Void Blade + Res Orb and using a Mortisan Soul Reaper as a C'Tan Shard of the Nightbringer (On a special scenic base to make it approximately as tall as the Nightbringer.)
Me and my friends go by 'rule of cool', otherwise your building for conformity, and for some players customizing and converting is a big part of the fun, so long as any special weapons are clearly defined at the start. We haven't had any problems, but I would assume going into any tournaments, that these models may not be allowed. Personally my marines don't get modeled with pouches or grenades, as I don't think they add aesthetically to the look i enjoy, but I have used grenades in game, and no one seems to mind, as the entry is fairly universal on the marine data sheet. And I have many vanguard but only one modeled holding a melta bomb. Which is now a strat anyway. Rule of Cool, always
if it's a kitbash tank or beast I'm cool with proxying it for whatever rules might apply. The only thing that rubs me the wrong way is when units are indiscernible from each other. In a squad of 10 guardsmen with all lasguns, it is so bs to declare one of them as a plasma gunner because the unit would be hard to pick out at a glance. If the unit being proxied as a plasma gunner perhaps had a flamer or meltagun then I wouldn't see a problem with it because it would be obvious. I'm down to be understanding, especially if it makes for a more fun, fair game. In 40k there are always fellas who might push that charitably too far though hahaha. Love you Jay.
I like having as much of my army be WYSIWYG as possible. I find it satisfying. I don't have a problem with a certain amount of proxying as long as it is abundantly clear what is being proxied. Some things are inherently annoying to have WYSIWYG all the time- like Necron Overloards. Do you really want to have 10 different Overloard models so you can have a WYSIWYG model at all times no matter what mood strikes you for loadout- going so far as to kitbash in the models with the Hyperphase Sword that don't even come in an overloard kit? No- that is clearly unreasonable. AT MOST, two models (one with the Tac Arrow and one with the orb) are needed but, honestly, one should be fine as long as you are clear what the loadout is.
As someone who loves Medieval minis, “WYSIWYG” is what I like to go with, makes the setting more “real” where I have men wearing bits of plate armor and cloth and all of them have different variations of the same weapon, even though there’s different aesthetics, a sword is a sword, a spear is a spear/ same with polearm, a bow a bow and shields go from small to large. The only difference a weapon should distinctly have, is weather it’s two or one handed. I even have a specific “ammo bearer” for my crossbowmen that carries bags of bolts on the sides of his hips. But I mean, I mostly paint for fun and if I play it’s usually a friends army that I end up using. I make my minis very clear about what they have in terms of an inventory, right on the model.
I think that WYSIWYG is something invented by GW to sell more models :) … when I play we go through the models before hand and discuss deviations. Place a marker at major differences and all is well.
A pointer for clones. Use a thinned down black wash so 4 or 5 parts lahmian medium and 1 or 2 parts nuln oil. You'll be able to work with it a lot easier so the grey/white colour is what you'll get like they have in the clone wars. Makes more sense then pristine white, makes it a bit easier too. But that too I think that colouring is more of a mix of wear and shading for the show. Looks great though
The masters brush cleaner smells of lemon meringue pie to me, and you can get the same shellac effect if you coat it after cleaning and don’t wash the soap off the brush. It’ll wash off in water when you go to use it again.
I like to do WYSIWYG so I have less to remember. It doesn't always happen, like how most of my Fire Warriors don't have pulse pistols, but I try to with the larger models or things that can swap out a bunch of stuff, like Crisis suits.
Unless were playing in a tourney for prizes, WYSIWYG is totally optional as long as you explain all the models before hand if they aren't obvious as to what they are
I just build them as I see fit and then just suffer the consequences during the battle. No proxy for me, every mini is unique with their strengths and weaknesses
wysiwyg is something I've learned is very important. if it's a new player, not so much. or even someone wanting to test new weapon options to see if they want to buy them. but I've had many games where I've looked at the table and known my opponents units and weapons at a glance and how they should work. only to find out that those weren't power swords, they were "thunder hammers." that changes everything in a game, like movement. and you can't expect the opponent to keep remembering that "these weapons are not what they show."
I think it's important when you have multiples of the same unit but with different weapon options. Also the assault bolter for Intercessors is the best, lol.
For me, if you have your army list or Order of Battle to hand and can show what each squad is armed with, then arming the models exactly is not important (also, run through with your opponent, so that they are also clear. It's just good sportmanship). If you do not have your army list or OoB, then the correct weapons should be shown, if only so you can remember what that 4th tactical squad is actually armed with.
I mind it less when there's one type of unit to remember. e.g. "all these Lego minifigs are ork Boyz with slugga/choppa" It's less fun when there's five substitutions with eight wargear combos to remember.
So you can get sanding sticks at Hobby Lobby in their model section. They carry packs of like 15 or 20 of all the same grit in the pack. I also feel WYSIWYG is situationally important. Like the example for Assault Bolt Rifle/Bolt Rifle/Stalker Bolt Rifle. It's isn't important when the whole squad is kitted out the same way because that's the only way it can be. Where I feel it is important is special load outs like for a Tactical Squads special and heavy weapon, or for sergeants, lieutenants, captains etc. so there is no confusion as to what they are using on either end of the table
I love WYSIWYG! I'm not a competetive gamer, so I don't care which option is the best. I choose by fluff and look, magnetise sometimes and then stick to what I have. I really don't like not bothering about WYSIWYG at all, because it confuses me, when almost every model has different weapons, than that I see, but I don't mind too much a little bit of proxying by my opponent. It still bothers me a bit, but I can cope with it. Guess I'm a bit weird.
I spend so much more time on modelling, painting and lore than I do gaming. The idea that I would compromise the flavour of my model for the sake of gaming function is absurd. There is also a bit of a culture of gaming being the purpose of this hobby, but this isn't a single hobby, it is a family of connected hobbies and there shouldn't be a tyrrany of the tabletop.
I say follow the rule of "good enough" if it kinda looks like the thing it's supposed to be, then good enough, if it is tank shaped it can be a tank, you can proxy your dreadnought as other dreadnoughts, your primaris can be proxyed as half of any primaris unit, and if you say your leader has some kinda different load out I don't care because you only have one or maybe two of them, it's good enough
Wysiwyg is fine for casual games, as long as you are clear with your opponent. Competitive settings it would not be acceptable usually i think, but tournament rules vary. Usually unless you are modelling to advantage I think it should be OK. Keep the base size the same and the rough silhouette.
Wysiwyg´s importance depends on the situation for me. For exemple, I do hate the stumpy cannons on Leman Russes, so I take the longer ones but play them as Battle Cannons. I also won´t start arguing with you if you want to sell me the mulitmeltas of your Retributors as heavy flamers. As long as the size of the proxy roughly matches the size of what it should represent and it´s at least remotely similar, then I have no major issues. But if you start to tell me that your Sylvaneth Dryads are Imperial Stormtroopers and your Treelord is Darth Vader, then I will probably not have much fun with the game. Another thing that annoys me ("the Space Marine exception"): If you collect and paint one of the big four chapters (Ultramarines, Dark Angels, Space Wolves and the glorious sons of Sanguinius), then I´d really appreciate if you´d actually field them as these chapters, or at least as a successor of them. I had a game in my local store with someone who pulled a beautifully painted Space Wolves army out of his case. But he then told me that he´s gonna play them as Blood Angels because of some Meta-stuff. Let me tell you: It really darkens my mood when I have to play against a Librarian Dreadnought that is obviously Bjorn just because my opponent has read of some list that was very succesful in some tournament. At least I brought my Cadians and not my own Blood Angels, that would have been a mess. It was just strange... like those sports "fans" that change their favourite team every season based upon the team´s rank in the league. One case where I would even somewhat encourage (at least myself) to throw WYSIWYG overboard: Centerpiece-Models that you´re painting not only for the tt but also as a display piece. Especially those without the option to equip different stuff. Like for exemple Mortarion, he has to have his oversized plasma pistol. But if you want to build him with a custom kitbashed giant grenade in his hand then please, go ahead, you won´t confuse your opponent because Mortarion´s loadout is like common knowledge but I really love to see some individual love given to those centerpieces, he´s a demon primarch, not a regular line infantry. I have placed Alarielle on a base decorated as an overgrown ruin in the jungle and got rid of that beetle (I don´t like the look of the beetle). I made sure that the size of the ruins and plants are roughly the size of the bug so there´s no significant advantage or disadvantage when it comes to line of sight. WYS is a ruin, WYG the bug. Don´t let WYSIWYG prevent you from building, modifying and painting those 100 bucks+ models the way you want!
I'm in the camp of "I want to magnetize and ensure that my armies are WYSIWYG as close as possible, but I couldn't care less if my opponent is abiding by those same rules or is partially/fully proxying their army". It's more of a personal goal to me that I don't hold other people to.
I like WYSIWYG just because I want my army to look good, but actual in game we never care. Although I've been doing a lot of chaos conversions lately so it doesn't technically match anymore.
with me and my friends, we run proxies when we don't have the models but we all like to build wysiwyg. I've been chugging through building and painting my ork army but I still have a long way to go. I have proxied boyz with my friend's necron warriors quite often
14:00 pigments will go on easier if you hit the model with a shot of matte or semigloss (satin) varnish, you can then seal it up with your finish of choice to fix it all into place.
secondly, if you want a dusty look in cracks & crevices, you can wet the areas with enamel thinner, add in pigment wetted in said thinner, and then tidy up after it dries. You'll need to seal these in as well. Lincoln Wright (Paint on Plastic by Lincoln Wright) has a good tutorial on this with his Maschinen Krieger (MaK) videos.
if the sanding twigs are the same as the ones I got they have no color code the sanding grits are not the same from pack to pack. I love them other than that but since I am a wood worker also I will use all of them eventually
Before my hiatus, I was quite laid back about it, as long as my opponent didn't take the mick with it of course. I often found that way best to take the edge off the game, regardless of who ultimately won.
I love WYSIWYG and I too try to make them accurate, but I proxy all the time to try things out. I'll put bread ties on them to note a different load out than what is there. But I don't care what my opponent brings as long as it's clear what's what. And hell yes to the Berserker Russ.
I do like to magnetize my guys because i like posing them and seeing them with their different weapons. BUT I dont really care about what my opponent does as long as hes telling me whats what. You have a guardsmen squad full of lasgun modells, but you wanna try giving one of them a sniper rifle? Just tell me which mini or mark it somehow so we dont forget and its fine. Hell if he has a cardboardbox thats kind of the correct size I wouldnt care if hes like "hey, this box is a leman russ with demolisher cannon". Poorhammer is a thing and not everyone can or is willing to spend alot of money and time, so as long as its clear to me whats what (maybe not have the same proxie for two different things or at least mark it in some way) im just happy to have someone to play with.
Just cause I see folks saying they just put on what they like but not caring about WYSIWYG; I always thought “rule of cool“ meant going in for something that may not be considered good in game but meta be damned (which I agree), but not in the sense of having your cake and eating it too. Overall though I feel it’s case by case and there is room for allowance, but I and those I’ve played/play with find it to be important to our games. I think the logic kind of trails back to historical wargames; Like I wouldn’t want to have wrong era tanks in *insert war*, or Roman Legionnaires as Greek Hoplites. But since we are dealing with sci-fi/ fantasy I can see why folks start to stop caring.
I like adding the scopes and larger clips to my primaris, but they’re all ran as basic bolters. Rule of cool all the way, just make it clear. “Hey man, ignore those leman russ sponsons, they’re out of ammo.”
I ended up getting an abomination to god that is a Celestine converted to Necron Lord. It’s terrifyingly ugly and is one of the first things shot off the board because of its height. I love it to death and being it to every game I’ve played since I bought it.
There is a pic in an old 40k boards where 2 guys deployed in Iraq durning desert storm are using different rocks they found to play a game. I wonder if they cared about wysiwyg. Lol
I'm on the same boat. I'll proxy weapons (and only weapons) but only so long as they look similar. Or for example for Tyranids, if an entire squad has devourers on but actually I want them to have the cheaper gun (forgot the name), then if the entire squad has a proxy weapon it won't matter because they all have the same physical weapon anyway. But if like, a squad had 7 bolt guns and one missile launcher, I wouldn't want to proxy the missile launcher on a bolt gun model, cause that's super annoying for the opponent. But if that model had a las cannon, but I proxyd it for a missile launcher, but the rest of the squad has bolt guns, then that's cool because the model is physically different so the opponent can keep track of what is what.
I reckon for new players especially proxying is fine, let people have fun with the game and learn the wackier stuff. For more experienced people it becomes more expected. in the end it just comes down to what your friends and you find acceptable.
What you see is what you get.... when I was younger There was a show about a wish granting creature ,called wizziwig... What you say is what you get! now it makes sense!
. I ran the autocannon space marines as hades chainsguns from the shadowspear box until i was able to 3d print barrels and hack the autocannons off, it still gives visual clarity that it is a different weapon. and I run all my csm as bolter bois and declare it at the start of the game as the shadow spear was half melee, half bolter layout. I tend to run the sergeants in the same bolter configuration and just use the chainaxe guys to have visual clarity on which one is the sergeant.
I think WYSIWIG is a nice. Personally, I like MY army to be WYSIWIG so I can look at the model and know immediately what they are using. But I also play Orks, so it has alot of wiggle room because I like to think that not all Ork weapons look the same so not all big shoota's are going to look alike. For my opponent I do not care at all. They can do what they want as long as they are clear upfront about it. But...the rule of cool I think trumps about anything. If a model looks cool, that is the way to go.
Rule of cool overrules WYSIWYG in my mind. As long as your opponent is made aware of what is what.
I agree! Tiefling bloodletters for the win!
I have been magnetizing everything I painted this last year... Not about WYSIWYG (I don't play, just paint and collect as if I did) But it makes the models posable, you can create non-permanent conversions, mix and match, comfortably paint and storage parts, and if they fall, they don't break, just come apart...
Here's my issue. I have been playing since 1st ed and seen a lot through the years. I perfer my models to be as accurate as possible to represent them on the tabletop so there is no confusion for my opponent. However, I play a Harlequin only force which for some strange reason, doesn't include all the wargear options in the kit you buy. I flat out refuse to buy 8 extra boxes of troupe so they can all be armed with fusion pistols at $50 a pop. Actually stopped going to matched play events because i got tired of explaining to people why they weren't wysiwyg and being told the my list wasn't legal. If your list is approved by the TO, it shouldn't matter. I really get tired of hearing "it's an investment" as I have about $3k "invested" already.
If your army is 90% WYSIWYG I think it is fine. If it is 90% proxys (and not cool conversions but instead just a confusing bunch of random choices to remember) then I think it is too far.
Make it easy on your opponent is all I am saying.
Wizzie wigs are rough, a lot of wizards aren't all that vain and will refuse to wear them.
I'm fine with it aslong as it clear what the model is, and you aren't trying to game model size
I only ever lean towards WYSIWYG because I can’t remember what the hell my dudes have without it
For me, all that matters is visual clarity. If I can say "oh, yeah, I can see that" as you explain a proxy/conversion choice, then all's good.
For example, say someone's playing a Guard Kill Team. The plasma doesn't have to look like plasma, the scions don't have to look like scions. But at the very least, the plasma should look like a hard-hitting ranged weapon, and the scion should look different from the guard.
I get that. Im making a fallen kill team and I have a guy with a big sword that I'm running as two power swords since its a two handed sword.
Also the snozzberries need to taste like snozzberries.
I made a catachan jungle fighters kill team with a box of scions and named characters which I'm using as scions as well
WYSIWYG is a great guideline for kitbashing and scratch building proxies, making something look the part it's supposed to play while also being creative with it.
The Battlefront 2 (2005) character you're talking about was the Clone Commander with the minigun. Its model was based on the Galactic Marines that were part of Ki-Adi-Mundi's battalion on Mygeeto in Revenge of the Sith.
As a guy that once used the Monopoly car token for a battle tank I care heavy about WYSIWYG
I'm old and have slight OCD (60's and ex-military 26 yrs) so everything has to be WYSIWYG, which has cost me a fortune and a huge bitz box lol. But would not have it any other way. Great work love your channel.
I wanted WYSIWYG Tau Fire Warriors (newest kit), so I magnetized them... Like all of it... Not just weapons... Pauldrons, heads and backpacks too... Easy to say that they were prone to exploding... It was annoying so I just took as many magnets out as I could and used CA glue to put them together. The only models I've kept magnetizing were Broadsides and Crisis Battlesuits.
Here, look at this madman
yeah, WYSIWYG doesn't matter to me, i just stick on what's cooler, and in game i say who has what. i am going to magnetise my knight when i get it because everything looks cool, but not neccesarily for WYSIWYG. btw WYSIWIG sounds funny
the problem is when you do that you're giving your opponent extra things to remember which isn't really fair. its not so bad if say all your imperial guard squads have the same loadout but if they are all using different equipment and some arnt as they appear it can get super confusing
it does sound pretty funny
I like WYSIWYG for my army, but so long as my opponent explains if things have something they aren't modelled with, that's fine. Sometimes it can get confusing but most of the time it's fine.
It's really tough to start an army and understand exactly what things you should use. I play Imperial Fists and thought it would be cool for all my intercessor sergeants to have power fists. When I actually got to playing the game I then realised that power fists can kind of be a bit sucky because of the -1 to hit and an extra 10% points cost for a 5 man squad is a lot to put down for something you might not even get a chance to use. I find these wargear options are often used when you have a little bit of budget left over when building a list. Oh I have 15 points remaining, guess my assault intercessor sergeant is getting a plasma pistol and a power fist. Things like sergeant loadouts, unless you go crazy with magnetising or making many different spares for the different combos, you're going to have a hard time making your army WISYWIG.
Also auto bolters are the best
In a friendly game, as long as its close to the model, I don't care what weapons are on the model. We go through the lists before the start of the game so we know when a unit has different loadout (that heavy bolter is a multi melta, those gants have devourers instead freshborers, etc.).
Also I’m so suprised you said you’re a costume designer, as I’m currently going into my final year of a costume design degree 🥰
I don't know any of the rules in 40k and so I just give them what looks cool
"Clone wars is better than any movie"
My man!
Also the unit you were thinking of was Clone Galactic Marine. I really wish they had them in tcw series
WYSIWYG is great, it gives you and excuse to buy 3x as many models... but what are these magnets you speak of 😏
Great for GW*
As some one who is new to the hobby, reading some warhammer forums about wysiwyg because I kinda mix matched my goblins. I got some fanatics and made up some of them as the spore splatter guys cause they looked cool. I didn't realize that was important. I dont have a whole lot of money, being a college student, so I dont really wanna go buy 2 more boxes of grots because my models cant be used.
I just getting into Kill Team, and WYSIWYG matters .. to a point.
When oponent at start of game hides behind structures and then slowly getting out in all directions ... it's easier to make decisions knowing which model is which.
What side went heavy hitters or tough guys.
But still if on field is just one guy with flamer I can just place model with melta.
When you play just to play and available models start to limit you .. throw WISIWYG outside the window.
Just keep clear what is what. When one of your 4 identical models suddenly has something heavier even replace it with completely different model or just bottle cap.
WISIWYG should not a limit but a part of the fun. If it's not fun then don't bother ;-)
Yeah it is much easier to remember in game what weapons your models are equipped with, when the models are really equipped with them. Therefore I startet to magnetise most stuff, but I also use many alternative miniatures, when they look really similar.
Aside from the WYSIWYG topic i loved the tangent about brush soap. Was actually about to look into that since i don't own any so far. Thanks!
Me and my mates used to buy every single codex between us and then use my extensive collection to proxy as anything. Made for hundreds of interesting battles as you could literally play anything.
Also bikers as well as large monsters/vehicles were pizza box cut out base sizes and a old school green horde of orks was 100 2p's
Good times
Only paint, rarely play, but “rule of cool” applies for me. So my primaris outriders with SoB sidecars with flamers always make the game board. My friends just agree to points increase. Same with my jump pack dreadnaught ( gotta keep up with the jump pack smack captain and assault troops)
Jump pack dreadnought?
@@jasonmolenaar119 I tend to kitbash a lot. In my head canon there is some blood angels servitor trysting to explain to it’s tech marine boss where the spare engines to the Storm Raven went. My ultramarines of course had nothing to do with it
That’s the great thing with tabletop games. When playing with cool friends, the rules tend to more of guidelines when it comes to models and army lists. As long as there is a cool kitbash and an even better backstory, it usually makes the table
You upload like like a beast man your passion for wargaming is awesome
Indeed!!
Just hope he doesn’t burn out
I'm fully ok with proxy, especally among friendly matches. :) Though I do try to go WYSIWYG because I sometimes have memory issues, and can sometimes forget.
Hell, I use a Heavyarms gundam in place of a Dreadknight because it just looks better, was able to mount weapons very easily, and admittedly, was a lot less expensive.
i’ll second those little sanding sticks, best decision i ever made for my hobby. really helped me get all the mold lines from the finicky bits on aos plague claws
Cheers Bro! I applaud your genuine approach to your videos. You tap into my childhood that is long gone.
... i mean that in the sincerest of compliments.
My Flesh Tearers have chain axes instead of chainswords and their bladeguard have power axes instead of the power swords; no one has complained. I think as long as you are consistent (all of these axes are swords) and it is still clear at a glance (chain weapons are chain weapons, power are power, etc) what each option is, it really isn't a big deal. Oh, and showing up with a fully painted army to decent or better quality always helps.
For me Rule Of Cool overrides pretty much everything else. I'm here to have fun not metagame, and magnetizing anything smaller than a tank or APC is a pain in the butt because of how small and fiddly they can get.
I tend to build armies based on how I think the unit would be set up, a rifle squad has mostly rifles with maybe a grenade launcher or other special weapon to add that extra bit of firepower to the squad or I split the weapon types between half the squad. A heavy weapon team is usually set up to support the heavy weapon and so on and that's how I play on the table top as well. For example if there's a slow moving, heavy hitting unit I'll usually match it with some quicker units to cover it's weaknesses.
Centurion Devastators are a perfect example of this, the squad leader gets the special weapon (either the grav Cannon + grav amp or the twin Lascannon) and the other two get heavy bolters to covering their leader. But that doesn't stop me from building what looks cool regardless of whether or not it's a feasible unit.
People that metagame ttwgs like 40k, kill team, and so in honestly drive me mad. They take something that's supposed to be a fun, enjoyable and entertaining hobby and make it so that if you don't always play competitively then you shouldn't be part of the hobby at all.
I believe the word you were looking for to describe a Friday night filled with minis and The Office is perfectenschlag!
I love how it can matter with certain things but not with others. Like grenades which didnt even used to be a bit but are now a bit. But maybe aren't used as much because it's another annoying little thing to glue to the model. I get it. I like to put them in interesting places too. But one day they will just work them back into the sculpt of the models beltline.
For the pigments, use some alcohol or get pigment fixer. Just plop drops from the end of your brush ( let the capillary action work for you) and it will keep your pigments in place. They aren't really for building up body on their own. They work well in conjunction with the pastes.
I'm split. I've always tried to be as close to WYSIWYG as possible but I love the aesthetic of the Scorpius Whirlwind and so will gleefully field it as a regular Whirlwind because it looks so good.
On the other hand I have called out people for using an empty monster base in a game store
my mate did that last night, bought the night bringer in the store we play and used the base on the table... VS a full Knight LOL
@@stevetuh4298 I have no words for my disgust. You don't need negativity like that in your life, I would unfriend that schmo immediately
@@Dementat no negativity here bro, chill
@@stevetuh4298 conversions, kitbashes, 3rd party minis and components are all good. I think the moment an empty base lands on table you might as well just deploy the box it came in without ever opening it. 😜
Ideally, I'd like all of my models to be WYSIWYG, but GW's pricing and boxing practices make that impractical at best and absurdly expensive at worst. My Chaos Terminators all have powerfists and combi-meltas, but only 2 of the models are equipped that way; the rest have either a chainfist or a power maul with a different combi-weapon. I'm not buying a second $60 box of models just for a couple powerfists and combi-meltas.
Until GW starts putting more options in the boxes, there's absolutely no reasonable expectation that can be had for all models to look exactly how they are equipped in the army list. It's important to make sure both parties are aware of what the other actually has on the table, and the proxies should be within reason.
Yeah, I heard that the chaos terminators are particularly bad about not having enough of each weapon option to outfit the whole squad.
@@EonsOfBattle Unfortunately not, and this is the newest kit. I think even the old kit had the same problem though.
You can buy specific sanding twigs in 240/320 and those are perfect for smoothing out edges.
Wow that brought back some memories playing that battlefront game hahah very cool
I'm quite new so I try to keep to WYSIWYG a decent amount, 90% or so of my Necrons are WYSIWYG, the only ones that aren't are my Overlord with Res Orb model that I run as having a Void Blade + Res Orb and using a Mortisan Soul Reaper as a C'Tan Shard of the Nightbringer (On a special scenic base to make it approximately as tall as the Nightbringer.)
Me and my friends go by 'rule of cool', otherwise your building for conformity, and for some players customizing and converting is a big part of the fun, so long as any special weapons are clearly defined at the start. We haven't had any problems, but I would assume going into any tournaments, that these models may not be allowed.
Personally my marines don't get modeled with pouches or grenades, as I don't think they add aesthetically to the look i enjoy, but I have used grenades in game, and no one seems to mind, as the entry is fairly universal on the marine data sheet. And I have many vanguard but only one modeled holding a melta bomb. Which is now a strat anyway.
Rule of Cool, always
And I use a converted dark apostle (chaplain) and chaos master of possession (librarian), because they suit my aesthetic, and i love the models.
if it's a kitbash tank or beast I'm cool with proxying it for whatever rules might apply. The only thing that rubs me the wrong way is when units are indiscernible from each other. In a squad of 10 guardsmen with all lasguns, it is so bs to declare one of them as a plasma gunner because the unit would be hard to pick out at a glance. If the unit being proxied as a plasma gunner perhaps had a flamer or meltagun then I wouldn't see a problem with it because it would be obvious. I'm down to be understanding, especially if it makes for a more fun, fair game. In 40k there are always fellas who might push that charitably too far though hahaha. Love you Jay.
I'd totally forgotten about that goop till you mentioned it .. so just had to grab some :D - Another awesome video Jay :D - Thanks!
Proxy a shoe box as a Repulsor with your friends, just get to the table top my dudes!
"it has a unicorn on the front, maybe its much better" thanks mate, made my day
I like having as much of my army be WYSIWYG as possible. I find it satisfying. I don't have a problem with a certain amount of proxying as long as it is abundantly clear what is being proxied. Some things are inherently annoying to have WYSIWYG all the time- like Necron Overloards. Do you really want to have 10 different Overloard models so you can have a WYSIWYG model at all times no matter what mood strikes you for loadout- going so far as to kitbash in the models with the Hyperphase Sword that don't even come in an overloard kit? No- that is clearly unreasonable. AT MOST, two models (one with the Tac Arrow and one with the orb) are needed but, honestly, one should be fine as long as you are clear what the loadout is.
That legion mini looks amazing, you should be very proud
For my own army I'm quite obsessed about WYSIWYG, but I'm ok with my opponents not caring as much. Also, I totally relate about being introvert!
As someone who loves Medieval minis, “WYSIWYG” is what I like to go with, makes the setting more “real” where I have men wearing bits of plate armor and cloth and all of them have different variations of the same weapon, even though there’s different aesthetics, a sword is a sword, a spear is a spear/ same with polearm, a bow a bow and shields go from small to large. The only difference a weapon should distinctly have, is weather it’s two or one handed. I even have a specific “ammo bearer” for my crossbowmen that carries bags of bolts on the sides of his hips. But I mean, I mostly paint for fun and if I play it’s usually a friends army that I end up using. I make my minis very clear about what they have in terms of an inventory, right on the model.
I think that WYSIWYG is something invented by GW to sell more models :) … when I play we go through the models before hand and discuss deviations. Place a marker at major differences and all is well.
A pointer for clones. Use a thinned down black wash so 4 or 5 parts lahmian medium and 1 or 2 parts nuln oil. You'll be able to work with it a lot easier so the grey/white colour is what you'll get like they have in the clone wars. Makes more sense then pristine white, makes it a bit easier too. But that too I think that colouring is more of a mix of wear and shading for the show. Looks great though
The masters brush cleaner smells of lemon meringue pie to me, and you can get the same shellac effect if you coat it after cleaning and don’t wash the soap off the brush. It’ll wash off in water when you go to use it again.
You can but masters brush point will be crunchy, with the unicorn the brush point is oily, it’s a different feel
I like to do WYSIWYG so I have less to remember. It doesn't always happen, like how most of my Fire Warriors don't have pulse pistols, but I try to with the larger models or things that can swap out a bunch of stuff, like Crisis suits.
Unless were playing in a tourney for prizes, WYSIWYG is totally optional as long as you explain all the models before hand if they aren't obvious as to what they are
I just build them as I see fit and then just suffer the consequences during the battle. No proxy for me, every mini is unique with their strengths and weaknesses
Fyi they have a video on how to use the jentastic goop on UA-cam. Works great on their good brushes.
wysiwyg is something I've learned is very important. if it's a new player, not so much. or even someone wanting to test new weapon options to see if they want to buy them. but I've had many games where I've looked at the table and known my opponents units and weapons at a glance and how they should work. only to find out that those weren't power swords, they were "thunder hammers." that changes everything in a game, like movement. and you can't expect the opponent to keep remembering that "these weapons are not what they show."
WYSIWYG is everything because my brain is wired that way. I think it adds an extra level to the game and the choices you make.
I think it's important when you have multiples of the same unit but with different weapon options. Also the assault bolter for Intercessors is the best, lol.
For me, if you have your army list or Order of Battle to hand and can show what each squad is armed with, then arming the models exactly is not important (also, run through with your opponent, so that they are also clear. It's just good sportmanship).
If you do not have your army list or OoB, then the correct weapons should be shown, if only so you can remember what that 4th tactical squad is actually armed with.
I proxy most of my sanguinary guard solely because the goddamn box only comes with 3 damn swords and two axes.
I mind it less when there's one type of unit to remember. e.g. "all these Lego minifigs are ork Boyz with slugga/choppa"
It's less fun when there's five substitutions with eight wargear combos to remember.
You say it doesn't matter but this is a hobby
You get out as much as you put in
You had fun magnetising them and that means it matters
So you can get sanding sticks at Hobby Lobby in their model section. They carry packs of like 15 or 20 of all the same grit in the pack. I also feel WYSIWYG is situationally important. Like the example for Assault Bolt Rifle/Bolt Rifle/Stalker Bolt Rifle. It's isn't important when the whole squad is kitted out the same way because that's the only way it can be. Where I feel it is important is special load outs like for a Tactical Squads special and heavy weapon, or for sergeants, lieutenants, captains etc. so there is no confusion as to what they are using on either end of the table
I love WYSIWYG! I'm not a competetive gamer, so I don't care which option is the best. I choose by fluff and look, magnetise sometimes and then stick to what I have. I really don't like not bothering about WYSIWYG at all, because it confuses me, when almost every model has different weapons, than that I see, but I don't mind too much a little bit of proxying by my opponent. It still bothers me a bit, but I can cope with it. Guess I'm a bit weird.
Remember back in the old days. me and my friends only had one rule. so long as the base is correct size, use whatever model you have :D
I spend so much more time on modelling, painting and lore than I do gaming. The idea that I would compromise the flavour of my model for the sake of gaming function is absurd. There is also a bit of a culture of gaming being the purpose of this hobby, but this isn't a single hobby, it is a family of connected hobbies and there shouldn't be a tyrrany of the tabletop.
I say follow the rule of "good enough" if it kinda looks like the thing it's supposed to be, then good enough, if it is tank shaped it can be a tank, you can proxy your dreadnought as other dreadnoughts, your primaris can be proxyed as half of any primaris unit, and if you say your leader has some kinda different load out I don't care because you only have one or maybe two of them, it's good enough
Magnet are key. Without magnets WSIWYG is a recipe for buying a lot.
I order sanding twigs straight from Durasand. They're cheap and you can pick your grit.
Wysiwyg is fine for casual games, as long as you are clear with your opponent. Competitive settings it would not be acceptable usually i think, but tournament rules vary.
Usually unless you are modelling to advantage I think it should be OK. Keep the base size the same and the rough silhouette.
The sticks are nice, but have you ever test nail sticks with a file at one side? They are awesome for very tiny file work
Wysiwyg´s importance depends on the situation for me. For exemple, I do hate the stumpy cannons on Leman Russes, so I take the longer ones but play them as Battle Cannons. I also won´t start arguing with you if you want to sell me the mulitmeltas of your Retributors as heavy flamers. As long as the size of the proxy roughly matches the size of what it should represent and it´s at least remotely similar, then I have no major issues.
But if you start to tell me that your Sylvaneth Dryads are Imperial Stormtroopers and your Treelord is Darth Vader, then I will probably not have much fun with the game.
Another thing that annoys me ("the Space Marine exception"): If you collect and paint one of the big four chapters (Ultramarines, Dark Angels, Space Wolves and the glorious sons of Sanguinius), then I´d really appreciate if you´d actually field them as these chapters, or at least as a successor of them. I had a game in my local store with someone who pulled a beautifully painted Space Wolves army out of his case. But he then told me that he´s gonna play them as Blood Angels because of some Meta-stuff. Let me tell you: It really darkens my mood when I have to play against a Librarian Dreadnought that is obviously Bjorn just because my opponent has read of some list that was very succesful in some tournament. At least I brought my Cadians and not my own Blood Angels, that would have been a mess. It was just strange... like those sports "fans" that change their favourite team every season based upon the team´s rank in the league.
One case where I would even somewhat encourage (at least myself) to throw WYSIWYG overboard: Centerpiece-Models that you´re painting not only for the tt but also as a display piece. Especially those without the option to equip different stuff. Like for exemple Mortarion, he has to have his oversized plasma pistol. But if you want to build him with a custom kitbashed giant grenade in his hand then please, go ahead, you won´t confuse your opponent because Mortarion´s loadout is like common knowledge but I really love to see some individual love given to those centerpieces, he´s a demon primarch, not a regular line infantry.
I have placed Alarielle on a base decorated as an overgrown ruin in the jungle and got rid of that beetle (I don´t like the look of the beetle). I made sure that the size of the ruins and plants are roughly the size of the bug so there´s no significant advantage or disadvantage when it comes to line of sight. WYS is a ruin, WYG the bug. Don´t let WYSIWYG prevent you from building, modifying and painting those 100 bucks+ models the way you want!
I'm in the camp of "I want to magnetize and ensure that my armies are WYSIWYG as close as possible, but I couldn't care less if my opponent is abiding by those same rules or is partially/fully proxying their army". It's more of a personal goal to me that I don't hold other people to.
I like WYSIWYG just because I want my army to look good, but actual in game we never care. Although I've been doing a lot of chaos conversions lately so it doesn't technically match anymore.
with me and my friends, we run proxies when we don't have the models but we all like to build wysiwyg. I've been chugging through building and painting my ork army but I still have a long way to go. I have proxied boyz with my friend's necron warriors quite often
14:00 pigments will go on easier if you hit the model with a shot of matte or semigloss (satin) varnish, you can then seal it up with your finish of choice to fix it all into place.
secondly, if you want a dusty look in cracks & crevices, you can wet the areas with enamel thinner, add in pigment wetted in said thinner, and then tidy up after it dries. You'll need to seal these in as well. Lincoln Wright (Paint on Plastic by Lincoln Wright) has a good tutorial on this with his Maschinen Krieger (MaK) videos.
if the sanding twigs are the same as the ones I got they have no color code the sanding grits are not the same from pack to pack. I love them other than that but since I am a wood worker also I will use all of them eventually
Before my hiatus, I was quite laid back about it, as long as my opponent didn't take the mick with it of course. I often found that way best to take the edge off the game, regardless of who ultimately won.
I love WYSIWYG and I too try to make them accurate, but I proxy all the time to try things out. I'll put bread ties on them to note a different load out than what is there. But I don't care what my opponent brings as long as it's clear what's what.
And hell yes to the Berserker Russ.
I do like to magnetize my guys because i like posing them and seeing them with their different weapons. BUT I dont really care about what my opponent does as long as hes telling me whats what. You have a guardsmen squad full of lasgun modells, but you wanna try giving one of them a sniper rifle? Just tell me which mini or mark it somehow so we dont forget and its fine. Hell if he has a cardboardbox thats kind of the correct size I wouldnt care if hes like "hey, this box is a leman russ with demolisher cannon". Poorhammer is a thing and not everyone can or is willing to spend alot of money and time, so as long as its clear to me whats what (maybe not have the same proxie for two different things or at least mark it in some way) im just happy to have someone to play with.
Just cause I see folks saying they just put on what they like but not caring about WYSIWYG;
I always thought “rule of cool“ meant going in for something that may not be considered good in game but meta be damned (which I agree), but not in the sense of having your cake and eating it too.
Overall though I feel it’s case by case and there is room for allowance, but I and those I’ve played/play with find it to be important to our games.
I think the logic kind of trails back to historical wargames;
Like I wouldn’t want to have wrong era tanks in *insert war*, or Roman Legionnaires as Greek Hoplites.
But since we are dealing with sci-fi/ fantasy I can see why folks start to stop caring.
I really enjoy wysiwyg. I rarely magnetize, but I just make my selection and roll with it.
WYSIWYG ideally is about being polite to your opponent. If they can understand and remember what something is and enjoy their game, it’s good enough.
I like adding the scopes and larger clips to my primaris, but they’re all ran as basic bolters. Rule of cool all the way, just make it clear.
“Hey man, ignore those leman russ sponsons, they’re out of ammo.”
If you make some Kill Team battle reports, I'll be there! There are a ton of channels that do full 40k, but Kill Teamers are harder to find.
The clones from the good Battlefront 2 with the purple robes were the "Clone Commanders".
I ended up getting an abomination to god that is a Celestine converted to Necron Lord. It’s terrifyingly ugly and is one of the first things shot off the board because of its height. I love it to death and being it to every game I’ve played since I bought it.
There is a pic in an old 40k boards where 2 guys deployed in Iraq durning desert storm are using different rocks they found to play a game. I wonder if they cared about wysiwyg. Lol
I'm on the same boat. I'll proxy weapons (and only weapons) but only so long as they look similar. Or for example for Tyranids, if an entire squad has devourers on but actually I want them to have the cheaper gun (forgot the name), then if the entire squad has a proxy weapon it won't matter because they all have the same physical weapon anyway. But if like, a squad had 7 bolt guns and one missile launcher, I wouldn't want to proxy the missile launcher on a bolt gun model, cause that's super annoying for the opponent. But if that model had a las cannon, but I proxyd it for a missile launcher, but the rest of the squad has bolt guns, then that's cool because the model is physically different so the opponent can keep track of what is what.
My rule is proxys are good as long as its about the same size and on the same base and it looks kinda like it I am gold with it.
20:13
You probably mean the Galactic Marines of Kid Adi Mundi and Commander Baccara.
I reckon for new players especially proxying is fine, let people have fun with the game and learn the wackier stuff. For more experienced people it becomes more expected. in the end it just comes down to what your friends and you find acceptable.
My group doesnt care what the wargear is as long as it stays the same the entire game. We generally explain the list before the game starts
What you see is what you get....
when I was younger There was a show about a wish granting creature ,called wizziwig... What you say is what you get! now it makes sense!
. I ran the autocannon space marines as hades chainsguns from the shadowspear box until i was able to 3d print barrels and hack the autocannons off, it still gives visual clarity that it is a different weapon. and I run all my csm as bolter bois and declare it at the start of the game as the shadow spear was half melee, half bolter layout. I tend to run the sergeants in the same bolter configuration and just use the chainaxe guys to have visual clarity on which one is the sergeant.
My ocd makes me wysiwyg my tyranids. From now on I'm magnetizing them.
Simple answer to the wysiwyg question: "It depends".
If it wasn't important there wouldn't be an acronym for it.
I think WYSIWIG is a nice. Personally, I like MY army to be WYSIWIG so I can look at the model and know immediately what they are using. But I also play Orks, so it has alot of wiggle room because I like to think that not all Ork weapons look the same so not all big shoota's are going to look alike. For my opponent I do not care at all. They can do what they want as long as they are clear upfront about it.
But...the rule of cool I think trumps about anything. If a model looks cool, that is the way to go.
Ha costume designer.
Fitting for a man of many hats.