Had a bike fit with James and he lowered my saddle by 15mm. He told me I’d probably stop on the way home to put it back up as it would feel weird. Felt all kinds of weird for a few days but once I’d adjusted my feet to the correct position (no longer heel up to compensate) managed to scoop up some elusive Strava KOMs with ease. Honestly changed my performance in a way I still find hard to believe. Game changer.
I did lower my saddle by 20mm at the start of this season. It also brought my saddle about 10mm forward. It made all the difference in the world. No more numbness in my feet, less disconfort of the soft tissues, I didn't had much rocking in my hips but now it is non existent, feel like my pedal strokes are more efficient, don't feel any pain in my upper back and my shoulders thanks me! There is a lot of bike fitters on UA-cam but after listening to James, is thinking and ways to approach problems are just about logic and it works!
Slap a blonde wig on Jimmi, Francis can be the world's shortest Brian May impersonator, find someone to imitate John Deacon and Boom! Queen tribute act
THANK YOU!! I had just bought a bike that according to my research was my correct size. After a week I noticed I was having knee pain so I analyzed my posture and found a bad knee - pedal relationship. I moved my setback all the way back and fixed that but now I was having neck issues because of the long reach... After watching this video and the one on setback, I returned the setback to center and reduced 30mm on my seat height... FIXED!!! My knee aligns perfectly with my pedal axis and my reach is more confortable. THANK YOU!!!
I found my current saddle height by filming myself from behind while on the rollers. I stopped lowering the saddle height when my pelvis wasn't rocking anymore. Kind of worked for me.
Great idea. Film yourself side and rear views on a trainer to see what you body is doing visually, also listen to your what you body tells you, then when you think you have it try out on the road.
I first heard of cleat position importance by watching Francis' videos and listening to James. I was convinced to at least try it, and so I did. I slammed my cleats far rearward on my Shimano RX8 gravel shoes... and I'll never go back to a forward cleat position. I feel like I'm doing leg presses in a squat machine... meaning, I feel like my power delivery is smoothed and optimized. And of course no sore feet or knees.
I agree with James - spot on. For years my Saddle was too high but I didn't realise. This meant I ended up toe pointing (particularly with the right foot). I had foot issues with this foot and odd other issues (sores and aches, shoulders, hands etc) A couple of years ago (after a lot of up and down by mm) I lowered my saddle by 40mm. I choose this height as I could pedal at about 110rpm with my heels on the pedals and no bouncing.This was too low - but not by huge amounts. I moved my cleats back and concentrated on feeling the soles of both feet against the shoes throughout the pedal stroke. I tried to feel as if my foot stayed more or less horizontal throughout the pedal stoke. When tired I tended to revert to the old right foot toe pointy style but over time this reduced. I gradually improved - no more issues. After a year or so I raised the saddle height by 10mm. I get more power, no issues, regularly ride for 4 - 5 hours (about 250 miles a week on average). I always like to feel the soles of my feet in contact with the inside of my shoes. when tired this feeling can go as the foot becomes (what seems to me) unstable. The lower saddle also means I'm comfortable in the drops for hours. I'd certainly recommend the high cadence heel pedalling to find a start height for the saddle. I'm don't know if this stacks up with James' view of saddle height. Nick
Yes this guy is right! My saddle was set at 79,3 cm from BB on Retul, but i have been loosing control when my leg was down. Now it is 78 cm is perfect! In my case the best option to measure saddle height was heel on pedal method.
Thanks so much! I was experiencing seat pain after long rides however the pain subsided after I dropped my saddle height. I'm a 60 year old who returned to cycling after a 25 year hiatus (and having both hips replaced). This channel has corrected a lot of the bad information lingering from the 1980s and 1990s. Aloha from Honolulu!
When all the bike fit videos are viewed as a whole they're seriously educational. Obviously seeing the man himself would be the best option but these at least give me an idea of how everything links together... wish I lived nearer to London!!!
Brilliant to start off with the global view (what happens at the bottom and top of stroke) and mention problems of low saddle height (hip pain). In my case I went down a long way to reduce outside of left knee pain and saddle sores on the left, but ended up with hip pain on the right side which somehow then became awful upper quad (hip flexor?) pain which someow then became critical lower back pain. Reducing crank length to 170s and having a "heel scraping on pedal" saddle height solved it all. I think the devil (!) may actually be 175mm cranks! I have also noted that a saddle that seems too high after one hour will be perfect (or feeling even too low!) after 2. This is rarely mentioned. Finally it is true in my experience that bike fitters put you right at the upper limit of what you can handle (on a good day!) Suffice to say that Hinault's 0.885 x inside leg position (roughly what is recommended by bike fitters) was 1cm higher than what he rode with before. So if you have a bike fit you might want to go down a 1cm and you should be about right. In any case you will feeel much better! Excellent video.
Hi Francis, As many people here I’m new to the channel and cycling in general, as I got my first road bike during lockdown. Thanks for the great content, I’m learning a lot trough your videos! Have you ever thought of organising a group ride on the weekend with your new London followers?
This is absolutely bang on. Excellent. Outside of left knee pain? Lower your saddle til it goes. Hip starts going numb due to leg (usually right leg) coming up too high? Raise saddle (or get sensible crank length) until pain goes.
Long time subscriber, so I kinda already know what James was gonna say. I still clicked just cuz I like hearing him talk. It’s as if he knows what he’s talking about
Probably this could be the best video tutorial ever made about how to find correct saddle height. The guy put huge efforts and tried his best to make it as simple as possible. Hope you understand. Good luck every one getting your saddle height correct after watching this video 😂😂😂😂😂
As a mountain biker, I often listen carefully to roadies. They approach seemingly mundane things with in-depth vision that often times MTB'rs don't and these things make HUGE differences in my riding including comfort, endurance, balance, efficiency, skills, etc. Mountain bikers should listen to these roadies more often. ~JSV
Moutain Biking is a totally different ball game mate....Road bike you can sometimes sit in the same position for hours...mountain biking that will never happen...you are moving around the whole time.Hope you understand what I mean
@@truth-Hurts375 Of course, I ride a dropper on my carbon Stumpjumper. www.pinkbike.com/photo/20271214/ That STILL has to be set up, properly, for pedaling, climbing, trail riding, fireroads, when it's UP and I'm riding it, the last thing I want is to lose efficiency or create long term physical issues. There's a lot that gets done on a FS bike while the rider is seated. So I take some of the advice from these rodies. If MTBrs take SOME advice from these guys they'll learn something that can improve their experience--that's all I'm saying. It's even more important for my hardtails, and there's a lot of riders on hardtails not expecting to learn from these rodies. ~JSV
Just wanted to say how good this video is, I have watched a lot of bike fitting videos over the years, and no one has just gone and said "If you have problems drop your saddle 30mm", because I had problems on a bike I had done thousands of miles on with some new shoe, and just went and dropped my saddle 15mm, then raised it up around 3-5mm more and it is great. How has no one just made a video going if you have saddle sores lower your saddle a bit! Astounding...also the whole bit about how the position that you sit on the saddle fore or aft will effect your saddle height in comparison to the peddle, i.e. you will adapt for bad fit, is also never mention in saddle height content. If I am like most people, as was suggested in the video, I was faffing about pretend 2mm matters, when the reality is clearly what you suggest, that 5mm here, 5mm there, is all going to be fine.
Great advice thank you. Sadly thought my left knee pain was something I had to live with ...saddle now lowered ...a bit more power as I can push more for longer and no knee pain
After watching this video I dropped my saddle 1.5 cm. WOW! Definitely a step in the right direction. The outside of my feet feel great and overall more comfortable riding experience. Thank you!
I wish I could fly there for a fit from James. I've applied a lot of his fit advice and my rides have been way more comfortable. It's his understanding of the human anatomy that makes his advice so accurate. He's the best.
Very informative. Thank you for this. Saddle positioning has been one of my greatest complaints, and it's great to hear someone explain the affects that certain changes will have on your positioning and power transfer.
Every time I see a video like this one I want to head down and get a fit with James.. but I've already spent so much on other fits which have me in what I would consider a good position but I know it could be better as I have occasional saddle sores in the exact same place each time.
This series has really been a life-saver for me ! I just bought a track bike with agressive geometry and it felt a bit small compared to the casual/relaxed everyday fixed-gear I was riding. Understanding bike fit better helps to find one's groove on a new bike so much
I have extremely long legs, and short body. (37inch inside leg) This is the first time I have heard to put the saddle forward, as have always felt stretched out. Knee is well forward of pedal regardless as I think it’s upper leg where all the length is. I’m going to put the saddle forward and give this a go. Thanks for the informative videos!
I just lowered my saddle by about 2 cm after watching this video (can't go any lower than that) and it feels like I got quite a massive boost in power. It feels weird at first but I guess it's just matter of getting used to it. Time will tell if those are real gains or just placebo. My saddle was previously set slightly off axis because a straight saddle was uncomfortable, just like you described. Now I can set it straight. My left quadriceps is also noticeably less muscled than the right one, and basically all the effort was produced by the quads. Two problems that you described and that will hopefully be solved by this. Thanks a lot for this advice! Two details: I'm on flat pedals, and my saddle height was first set by looking for a 30-40 degree angle at full leg extension. The question now is: are there any other settings I need to adjust in conjunction with the saddle height ?
Рік тому+1
I got a new bike a few days ago, adjusted my saddle height to the new position (from handlebar to dropbar) what felt weird to me was that my position was much higher than before. I think in the past was to low because it felt easier to balance.
Holy smokes this guy is brilliant. He just gets it, this is why obsession with scientific knowledge is foolish - I know a lot about the medicine/anatomy/physiology behind what he's talking about, but could never put it together the way he does. Dude, is seriously brilliant in way he puts things together. Listen to this man. Generally, he's on point. That's hard to do, when generalizing on UA-cam. May be worthwhile getting a bike fit, then adjust based on what this dude says.
I'm a fifty something rider & doing up to 100 mile rides. James advise on saddle height and cleat position have enabled me to be capable of century rides. As an older person doing longish rides I need things closer to optimum, that said def want a bike fit in the future PRIOR to a new bike! Eh thank you for the content as always excellent 😊
Loved this info! I ride approx 25-35 miles a night, 4-5 times per week. 1) I have left knee pain 2) I get right hand 🤚 fatigue 3) my left hip gets sore, and stiff, at times. 4) my right calf muscle gets strained near the end of my ride, during a hard sprint. I am going to try lowering my saddle tomorrow!
Probably the best video I have watched on saddle height. Having had a bike fit from James I have often agonized over replicating his measurements if I have swapped out a component. Where did James measure the saddle height from?, where on the saddle were the measurements taken from? etc etc. It is reassuring to know that millimetre perfection is not crucial. Cheers guys.
Another quality video!! I really enjoy listening to James share his knowledge. A BFT on a Tuesday morning while eating breakfast. It doesn't get much better 😂
How much do you need to lower your saddle roughly when you put your cleats as far back as they can go (assuming your saddle height was in the right spot in the first place)? Is it roughly 20-30mm or just 10mm??
Loving the moustache addition to bike fit Tuesdays! Honestly, the holistic approach that James takes to bike fitting and physiology is amazing. Thanks for the knowledge guys!
So... this isn't a video on How To Set your Bicycle Saddle Height, but one on the importance of getting it right? I've stopped riding for a while because I've got some knee pain. As you look at my right knee the pain is at 1 o'clock. Just into the inside-bottom of the quads. I was hoping to find from this video that location of pain would help with decisions on saddle height. Can't really move my cleats any further back if I don't want serious toe overlap. They are fairly neutral. I do find that once I get an injury it stays with me a while hence the time off riding. Any tips?
I would also add, you'll adapt your pedal stroke at very low speed to avoid toe overlap, it's far more important that your cleats are in a more stable location
@@Cade_Media Thanks, I'll check out that video, but can't see one that deals with pain above knee on the inside - could just be a strain, but a month off didn't fix it. Hard to know how to position cleats more neutrally than they already are, but I'll have another look. Plenty of float already, but could consider forward / aft position again... problem is too many variables.
If you were to set my saddle to what you think is a perfect height - however you might go about that: inseam measurement, heel to pedal measurement, pedaling video measurements or whatever… how many millimeters off of that perfect setting (either above or below) do you think it would it take for me to feel a difference; for me to recognize that it’s no longer perfect, but wrong… or for your expert knowledge to recognize it to be wrong by visual assessment?
Could you use DoE to give a formulaic answer to saddle height ? DoE gives provision for many input variables (X’s) to a required output variable (Y’s) ...
It's all making sense now. Had a second bike fit after my initial one 12months later and the fitter put up my saddle alot! 3-4 months later left medal knee pain ruined my training for 2 months. Also, may right outside toes go numb! Sounds like it could be excessive saddle height issues? I have been lowering it since... Keep up the good work!
Love bike fit Tuesdays! Simply awesome info. I fully concur the saddle height issue with many bike fitters. I spent years dealing with knee pain and saddle sores then a friend of mine, who has been in the sport a long time, told me to drop my saddle... Since then I've been golden.
Quick Question - I have my position dialed in quite well (I believe) on my road bike and intend to copy-paste it to my gravel bike BUT it looks to me as if MTB shoes with SPD pedals have a bit more stack height than road shoes / predals (SPD-SL) - due to the thicker, profiled soles and also the double-sided pedal mechanism... In your experience, how much is that difference usually, is there a rule of thumb by how much the saddle should be raised when switching from road to MTB shoes&pedals?
I like to go too high first and come down ... i also think i like to start high forward then come down and back... balance test move back and down as need till balance when hands are removed from bars... then i sit up like Im riding no hands and spin while moving my arms in circles like im running .... it feels distinctly like running .... very smooth
When adjusting saddle height is there a preferential angle the saddle should be set at? Should a saddle always be set dead level? should you start with a few degrees nose up or down?
Great vid, very informative! Many kudos for these series with James, Francis! I could imagine myself flying to London to get proper bike fit, but Berlin is the closest IBFI certified fitter.
This may have been mentioned in previous videos, but what qualifications does James have? He talks with an incredible amount of authority and knowledge, so assume its more than just a bike fitters course qualification. University level i take it?
OMFG clone James and ship a copy or three of him to Canada please! His expertise on bike fit and biomechanics has astounded me again. And makes me think my fit/setup has been wrong for 35 years now thanks to certain ex pros fit formulas.
And this is what James sorted with Sophie’s bike fit. If we’d gone a couple of years ago she wouldn’t now need extensive physio to cure right hand hamstring problems and last year she had a bad saddle sore on the left. Her original fit was, yes with a physio and she’s now at 71.5cm from bb to saddle height down from 74.5cm. Bike is dialled in, now we need to get Sophie dialled in so she can use those potential 50-100 watts extra power at next years Tour Series 👌👍
I am currently on The Great Allegheny Passage Trail. I am taking a day off at a B&B because my taint and upper hamstrings are just wasted. The right side is worse. I may have seat too high and probably have a bad too-wide seat to begin with. The last 20 miles was absolute agony getting to Meyersdale, PA. I need to get 32 more miles to Cumberland to buy new seat. This sucks really bad.
there is no correct formulaic way - a good starting point is to start low and slowly increase while assessing visually your leg extension and how it feels.
I have watched these bike fit videos a few times and messing with my bike fit. Boy is it getting better. Also I took your advice and moved my cleats all the way back and center I have big feet. Huge difference. Luckily I have an adjustable stem and I think it's to long but for now I bought it all the way up. Way more comfortable. Do you guys have a video specifically on reach distance? Also what about saddle angle. Mine looks aggressive but is so much more comfortable. Admittedly I need to work on my flexibility that's on my list. Great stuff I love the details.
Also on the mtb where I have a dropper post I notice that I change the saddle hight a lot during the ride. At the beginning I like it lower and when I get into a long climb I will move it all the way up. And when it flattens off I'll take it down about 2cm.
May I ask an actual saddle height related question...I have been having pain in the "soft lady area" (for want of a better way of putting it) and also getting numbness in my hands. Local bike shop helped adjust my saddle to a lower more level position and for a mile or so it's fine, but then I get the same issues as before and some knee pain. Do I need to increase the saddle height? I'm so confused!! I have some health issues that require me to be more upright. I have also considered getting some swept back riser bars to adjust my body position. Any advice would be gratefully received. Thanks Great video BTW
Love BFT, always great an informative. I did cop 15mins of UA-cam ads to go with it. P.s I now have 7 squarespace sites, am selling on Amazon and have reduced my debt..
Just done a 2 hr bike ride on zwift and had pain on front of both legs just below the knee and quite a bit of numbness. And then I see this video. I have struggled a lot with seat hight and I thought it was grand until today. Do I need to lower my seat.
How far in advance does one need to schedule a fit with James? Once all this COVID crap is over I will have business in Germany and I REALLY want to stop over in London on my way back to get a good fit from James.
Super content as always! Following on from this, could anterior knee pain and pain just above the kneecap be caused by tight hamstrings? I.e. knee extension is limited by tight hamstrings.
Yes..along with poor ankle mobility, tight calves and tight hips. In fact the entire kinetic chain can cause anterior knee pain. Loads of foam rolling the quads and stretching. Work on all of the above and see if it goes away. DO NOT ride through the pain barrier unless you want to have chronic issues. Took me months off the bike and targeted stretching and strength work before I could return slowly to riding. Don't be me.
Had several Retul fits over the years that set me up too high. About 2 cm lower now with far more comfort. Have others been set up too high with Retul ?
Tried to set up my new roadbike exactly like my MTB - to my surprise I had some knee pain and I had to lower the saddle a hole cm still don't know why but copy /pasting the position did not work.
How does saddle setback play into all this? Would setback need to change with saddle height, cleat position, and/or crank length? Absolutely love bikefit tuesdays! Thanks
excellent explanations Francis & James; a few observations, 1 is a comparison of the rider before and after i.e. post bike fit would have been good to see, 2 is was there a change in power output if assumptions are correct we should see this and 3, a bike fit should involve a ride outside component, studio is too controlled to capture rider dynamics on bike under load, fatigue etc. Finally a good tough climb seems to expose a poor fit pretty quickly. Great topic.
Difficult to execute and outside component in the space of 3 hours which is already full, but follow up fits seem to do the trick as riders can go away, ride and then come back with feedback.
Hi Francis i have recently had a bike fit locally, i live in hull and since the fit am getting numbness in my right hand and a weird sensation in my left knee? on the fit the saddle height was moved up and so was the stem. Should i got back to the fitter on tell him this? the reson for the fit is because i am doing london to Paris next year for charity, my dad died of heart failure and want to be comfy on the ride, hope you can help withis for me
hey! I had all 4 of those problems, AND chondromalacia. I don’t recommend it at all. I even paid a fitter $350 and he couldn’t seem to remedy my knee pain that got to the point where I was injuring myself. Finally raised the saddle up, went through physical therapy and have been fine ever since. I also switched to 170 cranks and now I’m not so hypersensitive to saddle height, and much more comfortable.
Interesting, sorry to hear this. There will always be exceptions to the "rules". Bad that your bike fitter couldn't solve things the first time... The world needs more decent bike fitters, hopefully things will change!
Francis Cade Nah, it’s all good! It’s just been a part of my experience in cycling. The whole thing drove a curiosity that gave me better understanding of the biomechanics of cycling, and now I’m totally recovered and much more comfortable on the bike. Rode from Paris to Monaco over six days with a group of friends and never had any issues.
Francis Cade I live in Japan but travel back to the UK to see family. When this is all over I fancy coming in for a bike fit just to hear James talk about how repulsive my current position is
I find your videos extremely informative and all of what you say brings it down to a common sense level, Thanks and keep up the good work with the videos.( Just going to lower my saddle height a little:)
Do power meters in cranks / pedals not add this with cycling dynamics? e.g. pedalling efficiency or is this just black magic that may or may not improve your bio-dynamics?
I've 2 questions for you, well, actually, for James... Sorry Francis.... I've got a new bike about 3 months ago, set it up myself by a mixture of approximate measurements from my old bike and general feel, and it seems grand... I've had no issues so far, should I still have a bike fit? Worred that it'll actually cause issues... Secondly, any tips on changing cleats - honestly every time I swap out old cleats for new it takes me ages to get it right - I generally just use a sharpie to try and mark current position...
I can tell that he really knows what he is talking about, but having just finished the video, I still have no idea how high to put my seat.
Lower!
bro... i was thinking the same thing watching this.
Keeping it vague.. you know why.
I did the 109% method then I reduced 30mm like he recommends. Perfection...
Make it 20mm lower
Had a bike fit with James and he lowered my saddle by 15mm. He told me I’d probably stop on the way home to put it back up as it would feel weird. Felt all kinds of weird for a few days but once I’d adjusted my feet to the correct position (no longer heel up to compensate) managed to scoop up some elusive Strava KOMs with ease. Honestly changed my performance in a way I still find hard to believe. Game changer.
When you have to lower a saddle at 8 but direct an adult movie at 9
LOL
Tom Austin 😂😂😂😂
It is really refreshing to hear someone talk about something that they clearly know a great deal about, and are passionate about.
I did lower my saddle by 20mm at the start of this season. It also brought my saddle about 10mm forward. It made all the difference in the world. No more numbness in my feet, less disconfort of the soft tissues, I didn't had much rocking in my hips but now it is non existent, feel like my pedal strokes are more efficient, don't feel any pain in my upper back and my shoulders thanks me!
There is a lot of bike fitters on UA-cam but after listening to James, is thinking and ways to approach problems are just about logic and it works!
@leahcim38 Would you like to share your bad bike fitter experience with the rest of the group?
Bike fit Tuesdays with Freddie Mercury™
Great vid
I want to ride my BICYCLE BICYCLE.
😂
Slap a blonde wig on Jimmi, Francis can be the world's shortest Brian May impersonator, find someone to imitate John Deacon and Boom! Queen tribute act
@@gethinap if you can play uke you can play bass.
@@Cade_Media Funny you mentioned that. It's time to revisit my teenage years 😋
Cade finally got 90+k subscribers he deserves every lil bit of it. And this series is your best series. I love JAMES!
THANK YOU!! I had just bought a bike that according to my research was my correct size. After a week I noticed I was having knee pain so I analyzed my posture and found a bad knee - pedal relationship. I moved my setback all the way back and fixed that but now I was having neck issues because of the long reach...
After watching this video and the one on setback, I returned the setback to center and reduced 30mm on my seat height...
FIXED!!! My knee aligns perfectly with my pedal axis and my reach is more confortable. THANK YOU!!!
I found my current saddle height by filming myself from behind while on the rollers. I stopped lowering the saddle height when my pelvis wasn't rocking anymore. Kind of worked for me.
Thanks for this tip!
Great idea. Film yourself side and rear views on a trainer to see what you body is doing visually, also listen to your what you body tells you, then when you think you have it try out on the road.
Dont forget...you movent of your saddle back and forth need adjustment up or down
Love the enthusiasm that James brings to the table!! Also.. Freddie Mercury called, he wants his moustache back.. ;)
I first heard of cleat position importance by watching Francis' videos and listening to James. I was convinced to at least try it, and so I did. I slammed my cleats far rearward on my Shimano RX8 gravel shoes... and I'll never go back to a forward cleat position. I feel like I'm doing leg presses in a squat machine... meaning, I feel like my power delivery is smoothed and optimized. And of course no sore feet or knees.
I agree with James - spot on. For years my Saddle was too high but I didn't realise. This meant I ended up toe pointing (particularly with the right foot). I had foot issues with this foot and odd other issues (sores and aches, shoulders, hands etc)
A couple of years ago (after a lot of up and down by mm) I lowered my saddle by 40mm. I choose this height as I could pedal at about 110rpm with my heels on the pedals and no bouncing.This was too low - but not by huge amounts. I moved my cleats back and concentrated on feeling the soles of both feet against the shoes throughout the pedal stroke. I tried to feel as if my foot stayed more or less horizontal throughout the pedal stoke. When tired I tended to revert to the old right foot toe pointy style but over time this reduced.
I gradually improved - no more issues. After a year or so I raised the saddle height by 10mm. I get more power, no issues, regularly ride for 4 - 5 hours (about 250 miles a week on average). I always like to feel the soles of my feet in contact with the inside of my shoes. when tired this feeling can go as the foot becomes (what seems to me) unstable.
The lower saddle also means I'm comfortable in the drops for hours. I'd certainly recommend the high cadence heel pedalling to find a start height for the saddle.
I'm don't know if this stacks up with James' view of saddle height.
Nick
Yes this guy is right! My saddle was set at 79,3 cm from BB on Retul, but i have been loosing control when my leg was down. Now it is 78 cm is perfect! In my case the best option to measure saddle height was heel on pedal method.
Thanks so much! I was experiencing seat pain after long rides however the pain subsided after I dropped my saddle height. I'm a 60 year old who returned to cycling after a 25 year hiatus (and having both hips replaced). This channel has corrected a lot of the bad information lingering from the 1980s and 1990s. Aloha from Honolulu!
When all the bike fit videos are viewed as a whole they're seriously educational. Obviously seeing the man himself would be the best option but these at least give me an idea of how everything links together... wish I lived nearer to London!!!
😁👍
Brilliant to start off with the global view (what happens at the bottom and top of stroke) and mention problems of low saddle height (hip pain). In my case I went down a long way to reduce outside of left knee pain and saddle sores on the left, but ended up with hip pain on the right side which somehow then became awful upper quad (hip flexor?) pain which someow then became critical lower back pain. Reducing crank length to 170s and having a "heel scraping on pedal" saddle height solved it all. I think the devil (!) may actually be 175mm cranks!
I have also noted that a saddle that seems too high after one hour will be perfect (or feeling even too low!) after 2. This is rarely mentioned. Finally it is true in my experience that bike fitters put you right at the upper limit of what you can handle (on a good day!) Suffice to say that Hinault's 0.885 x inside leg position (roughly what is recommended by bike fitters) was 1cm higher than what he rode with before. So if you have a bike fit you might want to go down a 1cm and you should be about right. In any case you will feeel much better! Excellent video.
Hi Francis,
As many people here I’m new to the channel and cycling in general, as I got my first road bike during lockdown.
Thanks for the great content, I’m learning a lot trough your videos!
Have you ever thought of organising a group ride on the weekend with your new London followers?
Nice idea... But I feel like it would be chaos 😂
This is absolutely bang on. Excellent. Outside of left knee pain? Lower your saddle til it goes. Hip starts going numb due to leg (usually right leg) coming up too high? Raise saddle (or get sensible crank length) until pain goes.
Of course this isn't factoring in ITB issues that can occur where stretching, rolling and strengthening might be what is needed?
Long time subscriber, so I kinda already know what James was gonna say. I still clicked just cuz I like hearing him talk. It’s as if he knows what he’s talking about
This video helped me out SO much. 30+ miles and I was getting saddle sores. I dropped the height just 20mil, rode 67 miles last weekend and NO sores!
YESSSS...to Jame's new haircut. He like a skinny Tom Selleck. It's absolutely brilliant! Don't get rid of it. 🤙🏾
I’m disappointed within bonus segment optimum moustache height wasn’t covered off. Possibly for another BFT?
Probably this could be the best video tutorial ever made about how to find correct saddle height. The guy put huge efforts and tried his best to make it as simple as possible. Hope you understand. Good luck every one getting your saddle height correct after watching this video 😂😂😂😂😂
As a mountain biker, I often listen carefully to roadies. They approach seemingly mundane things with in-depth vision that often times MTB'rs don't and these things make HUGE differences in my riding including comfort, endurance, balance, efficiency, skills, etc. Mountain bikers should listen to these roadies more often.
~JSV
Moutain Biking is a totally different ball game mate....Road bike you can sometimes sit in the same position for hours...mountain biking that will never happen...you are moving around the whole time.Hope you understand what I mean
@@truth-Hurts375 Of course, I ride a dropper on my carbon Stumpjumper.
www.pinkbike.com/photo/20271214/
That STILL has to be set up, properly, for pedaling, climbing, trail riding, fireroads, when it's UP and I'm riding it, the last thing I want is to lose efficiency or create long term physical issues. There's a lot that gets done on a FS bike while the rider is seated. So I take some of the advice from these rodies. If MTBrs take SOME advice from these guys they'll learn something that can improve their experience--that's all I'm saying. It's even more important for my hardtails, and there's a lot of riders on hardtails not expecting to learn from these rodies.
~JSV
@@truth-Hurts375 telling him what his hobby is like, seems a bit weird. But maybe that's just me. Good day sir.
Just wanted to say how good this video is, I have watched a lot of bike fitting videos over the years, and no one has just gone and said "If you have problems drop your saddle 30mm", because I had problems on a bike I had done thousands of miles on with some new shoe, and just went and dropped my saddle 15mm, then raised it up around 3-5mm more and it is great.
How has no one just made a video going if you have saddle sores lower your saddle a bit! Astounding...also the whole bit about how the position that you sit on the saddle fore or aft will effect your saddle height in comparison to the peddle, i.e. you will adapt for bad fit, is also never mention in saddle height content.
If I am like most people, as was suggested in the video, I was faffing about pretend 2mm matters, when the reality is clearly what you suggest, that 5mm here, 5mm there, is all going to be fine.
Great advice thank you. Sadly thought my left knee pain was something I had to live with ...saddle now lowered ...a bit more power as I can push more for longer and no knee pain
wow its actually Tuesday
ParkerJimmy must’ve been an accident
total accident
After watching this video I dropped my saddle 1.5 cm. WOW! Definitely a step in the right direction. The outside of my feet feel great and overall more comfortable riding experience. Thank you!
Freddie Mercury Fit Tuesdays! I want to ride my bicycleeee!
I wish I could fly there for a fit from James. I've applied a lot of his fit advice and my rides have been way more comfortable. It's his understanding of the human anatomy that makes his advice so accurate. He's the best.
Very informative. Thank you for this. Saddle positioning has been one of my greatest complaints, and it's great to hear someone explain the affects that certain changes will have on your positioning and power transfer.
No worries, thanks for watching
Every time I see a video like this one I want to head down and get a fit with James.. but I've already spent so much on other fits which have me in what I would consider a good position but I know it could be better as I have occasional saddle sores in the exact same place each time.
This series has really been a life-saver for me !
I just bought a track bike with agressive geometry and it felt a bit small compared to the casual/relaxed everyday fixed-gear I was riding.
Understanding bike fit better helps to find one's groove on a new bike so much
How about the horizontal position of the saddle? And the effect on pressure on the arms/hands? 😁
@10:13 moving the cleat further back will DECREASE the reach to the paddle, and therefore you need to reduce the seat height, right?
Greetings from Florida, I recently found your channel, as a newbie I really appreciate your videos!
I have extremely long legs, and short body. (37inch inside leg) This is the first time I have heard to put the saddle forward, as have always felt stretched out.
Knee is well forward of pedal regardless as I think it’s upper leg where all the length is.
I’m going to put the saddle forward and give this a go.
Thanks for the informative videos!
I just lowered my saddle by about 2 cm after watching this video (can't go any lower than that) and it feels like I got quite a massive boost in power. It feels weird at first but I guess it's just matter of getting used to it.
Time will tell if those are real gains or just placebo.
My saddle was previously set slightly off axis because a straight saddle was uncomfortable, just like you described. Now I can set it straight.
My left quadriceps is also noticeably less muscled than the right one, and basically all the effort was produced by the quads. Two problems that you described and that will hopefully be solved by this.
Thanks a lot for this advice!
Two details: I'm on flat pedals, and my saddle height was first set by looking for a 30-40 degree angle at full leg extension.
The question now is: are there any other settings I need to adjust in conjunction with the saddle height ?
I got a new bike a few days ago, adjusted my saddle height to the new position (from handlebar to dropbar) what felt weird to me was that my position was much higher than before. I think in the past was to low because it felt easier to balance.
Oh my god it’s Richard from Friends! (Maybe a bit obscure, but I’m not telling him he looks like Magnum...)
I was going to write "Tom Selleck", but you beat me. Next time...
Friends? Is that some 1980s show 😛
Richard from Friends haha. Tom will always be Magnum PI to me. 🧐
Stumbled upon your videos as I'm doing a research to get my first proper bike!
Love your videos; great content with cool vibes!
Thanks!
Holy smokes this guy is brilliant. He just gets it, this is why obsession with scientific knowledge is foolish - I know a lot about the medicine/anatomy/physiology behind what he's talking about, but could never put it together the way he does. Dude, is seriously brilliant in way he puts things together. Listen to this man. Generally, he's on point. That's hard to do, when generalizing on UA-cam.
May be worthwhile getting a bike fit, then adjust based on what this dude says.
Great video. I’ve had 2 bike fits still struggling. When your spending big money on bikes it’s very frustrating when you get pains constantly.
Great advice...and I'm happy to see that Magnum PI is doing bike fits now :-)
I'm a fifty something rider & doing up to 100 mile rides. James advise on saddle height and cleat position have enabled me to be capable of century rides. As an older person doing longish rides I need things closer to optimum, that said def want a bike fit in the future PRIOR to a new bike! Eh thank you for the content as always excellent 😊
Loved this info! I ride approx 25-35 miles a night, 4-5 times per week.
1) I have left knee pain
2) I get right hand 🤚 fatigue
3) my left hip gets sore, and stiff, at times.
4) my right calf muscle gets strained near the end of my ride, during a hard sprint.
I am going to try lowering my saddle tomorrow!
good luck!
James looks like a creepy 70s gym class teacher with the new mo 😂😂😂
Probably the best video I have watched on saddle height. Having had a bike fit from James I have often agonized over replicating his measurements if I have swapped out a component. Where did James measure the saddle height from?, where on the saddle were the measurements taken from? etc etc. It is reassuring to know that millimetre perfection is not crucial. Cheers guys.
Another quality video!! I really enjoy listening to James share his knowledge. A BFT on a Tuesday morning while eating breakfast. It doesn't get much better 😂
How much do you need to lower your saddle roughly when you put your cleats as far back as they can go (assuming your saddle height was in the right spot in the first place)?
Is it roughly 20-30mm or just 10mm??
Literally the best no bullshit explanation of saddle height ever. Well done to the tash.
Loving the moustache addition to bike fit Tuesdays! Honestly, the holistic approach that James takes to bike fitting and physiology is amazing. Thanks for the knowledge guys!
So... this isn't a video on How To Set your Bicycle Saddle Height, but one on the importance of getting it right? I've stopped riding for a while because I've got some knee pain. As you look at my right knee the pain is at 1 o'clock. Just into the inside-bottom of the quads. I was hoping to find from this video that location of pain would help with decisions on saddle height. Can't really move my cleats any further back if I don't want serious toe overlap. They are fairly neutral. I do find that once I get an injury it stays with me a while hence the time off riding. Any tips?
Our video on knee pain might do the trick: ua-cam.com/video/lg9lqqaDLTI/v-deo.html
I would also add, you'll adapt your pedal stroke at very low speed to avoid toe overlap, it's far more important that your cleats are in a more stable location
@@Cade_Media Thanks, I'll check out that video, but can't see one that deals with pain above knee on the inside - could just be a strain, but a month off didn't fix it. Hard to know how to position cleats more neutrally than they already are, but I'll have another look. Plenty of float already, but could consider forward / aft position again... problem is too many variables.
If you were to set my saddle to what you think is a perfect height - however you might go about that: inseam measurement, heel to pedal measurement, pedaling video measurements or whatever… how many millimeters off of that perfect setting (either above or below) do you think it would it take for me to feel a difference; for me to recognize that it’s no longer perfect, but wrong… or for your expert knowledge to recognize it to be wrong by visual assessment?
Could you use DoE to give a formulaic answer to saddle height ? DoE gives provision for many input variables (X’s) to a required output variable (Y’s) ...
this question might seem silly but when you say move the cleats back does that mean shoe goes back? so cleat goes toward the toe?
It's all making sense now. Had a second bike fit after my initial one 12months later and the fitter put up my saddle alot! 3-4 months later left medal knee pain ruined my training for 2 months. Also, may right outside toes go numb! Sounds like it could be excessive saddle height issues? I have been lowering it since... Keep up the good work!
Sounds like it!
And the pointy bit goes forwards, right?
Love bike fit Tuesdays! Simply awesome info. I fully concur the saddle height issue with many bike fitters. I spent years dealing with knee pain and saddle sores then a friend of mine, who has been in the sport a long time, told me to drop my saddle... Since then I've been golden.
Quick Question - I have my position dialed in quite well (I believe) on my road bike and intend to copy-paste it to my gravel bike BUT it looks to me as if MTB shoes with SPD pedals have a bit more stack height than road shoes / predals (SPD-SL) - due to the thicker, profiled soles and also the double-sided pedal mechanism...
In your experience, how much is that difference usually, is there a rule of thumb by how much the saddle should be raised when switching from road to MTB shoes&pedals?
I like to go too high first and come down ... i also think i like to start high forward then come down and back... balance test move back and down as need till balance when hands are removed from bars... then i sit up like Im riding no hands and spin while moving my arms in circles like im running .... it feels distinctly like running .... very smooth
Loved "Human Beings are very good at absorbing disfunction". Extremely entertaining as usual James.
When adjusting saddle height is there a preferential angle the saddle should be set at? Should a saddle always be set dead level? should you start with a few degrees nose up or down?
Great vid, very informative! Many kudos for these series with James, Francis!
I could imagine myself flying to London to get proper bike fit, but Berlin is the closest IBFI certified fitter.
This may have been mentioned in previous videos, but what qualifications does James have? He talks with an incredible amount of authority and knowledge, so assume its more than just a bike fitters course qualification. University level i take it?
OMFG clone James and ship a copy or three of him to Canada please! His expertise on bike fit and biomechanics has astounded me again. And makes me think my fit/setup has been wrong for 35 years now thanks to certain ex pros fit formulas.
And this is what James sorted with Sophie’s bike fit. If we’d gone a couple of years ago she wouldn’t now need extensive physio to cure right hand hamstring problems and last year she had a bad saddle sore on the left. Her original fit was, yes with a physio and she’s now at 71.5cm from bb to saddle height down from 74.5cm. Bike is dialled in, now we need to get Sophie dialled in so she can use those potential 50-100 watts extra power at next years Tour Series 👌👍
Dear Sir, at 10:18 lowering the saddle height accordingly, is that 1mm to every 1mm one moves the cleat further back on the shoe? Thanks.
I am currently on The Great Allegheny Passage Trail. I am taking a day off at a B&B because my taint and upper hamstrings are just wasted. The right side is worse. I may have seat too high and probably have a bad too-wide seat to begin with. The last 20 miles was absolute agony getting to Meyersdale, PA. I need to get 32 more miles to Cumberland to buy new seat. This sucks really bad.
So, how do you do it? Was great way to say saddle height hundreds of times and list potential problems though.
there is no correct formulaic way - a good starting point is to start low and slowly increase while assessing visually your leg extension and how it feels.
and of course, get a bike fit.
I have watched these bike fit videos a few times and messing with my bike fit. Boy is it getting better. Also I took your advice and moved my cleats all the way back and center I have big feet. Huge difference. Luckily I have an adjustable stem and I think it's to long but for now I bought it all the way up. Way more comfortable. Do you guys have a video specifically on reach distance? Also what about saddle angle. Mine looks aggressive but is so much more comfortable. Admittedly I need to work on my flexibility that's on my list. Great stuff I love the details.
Also on the mtb where I have a dropper post I notice that I change the saddle hight a lot during the ride. At the beginning I like it lower and when I get into a long climb I will move it all the way up. And when it flattens off I'll take it down about 2cm.
Great Video, i just lowered my saddle (it was definitely too high) , went for a ride and now my feet started to go numb! any ideas?
May I ask an actual saddle height related question...I have been having pain in the "soft lady area" (for want of a better way of putting it) and also getting numbness in my hands. Local bike shop helped adjust my saddle to a lower more level position and for a mile or so it's fine, but then I get the same issues as before and some knee pain. Do I need to increase the saddle height? I'm so confused!! I have some health issues that require me to be more upright. I have also considered getting some swept back riser bars to adjust my body position. Any advice would be gratefully received. Thanks Great video BTW
Can you guys go over mountain bike fits and what to look for?
Yep! Coming soon
Love BFT, always great an informative.
I did cop 15mins of UA-cam ads to go with it.
P.s I now have 7 squarespace sites, am selling on Amazon and have reduced my debt..
😂
James is fascinating. My fit was a complete game changer. Saddle went up 60mm
Just done a 2 hr bike ride on zwift and had pain on front of both legs just below the knee and quite a bit of numbness. And then I see this video. I have struggled a lot with seat hight and I thought it was grand until today. Do I need to lower my seat.
Great video, am going to try mine lower, I don’t have any specific issues but I know that I point my toes intermittently
I suffer from pain in my shoulder blades and numb feet. Could they both have something to do with saddle height?
How far in advance does one need to schedule a fit with James? Once all this COVID crap is over I will have business in Germany and I REALLY want to stop over in London on my way back to get a good fit from James.
He's usually about 2/3 weeks booked up, but sometimes people cancel. Worth pinging an email and booking in early!
Super content as always! Following on from this, could anterior knee pain and pain just above the kneecap be caused by tight hamstrings? I.e. knee extension is limited by tight hamstrings.
Yes..along with poor ankle mobility, tight calves and tight hips. In fact the entire kinetic chain can cause anterior knee pain.
Loads of foam rolling the quads and stretching.
Work on all of the above and see if it goes away.
DO NOT ride through the pain barrier unless you want to have chronic issues.
Took me months off the bike and targeted stretching and strength work before I could return slowly to riding.
Don't be me.
Had several Retul fits over the years that set me up too high. About 2 cm lower now with far more comfort. Have others been set up too high with Retul ?
Tried to set up my new roadbike exactly like my MTB - to my surprise I had some knee pain and I had to lower the saddle a hole cm still don't know why but copy /pasting the position did not work.
Would saddle height be different for mountain bike vs road bike?
How does saddle setback play into all this? Would setback need to change with saddle height, cleat position, and/or crank length? Absolutely love bikefit tuesdays! Thanks
What about spd VS spd sl pedals, i ride my daily bike to work with spd xt pedals, in the weekend spd sl pedals.
excellent explanations Francis & James; a few observations, 1 is a comparison of the rider before and after i.e. post bike fit would have been good to see, 2 is was there a change in power output if assumptions are correct we should see this and 3, a bike fit should involve a ride outside component, studio is too controlled to capture rider dynamics on bike under load, fatigue etc. Finally a good tough climb seems to expose a poor fit pretty quickly. Great topic.
Difficult to execute and outside component in the space of 3 hours which is already full, but follow up fits seem to do the trick as riders can go away, ride and then come back with feedback.
So if you find your toes are pointing down at the bottom of the stroke then the saddle may be too high?
Thanks for the BFT, always fun seeing James!
Possibly, yes!
Great to see this segment back! Always informative and fun.
Hi Francis i have recently had a bike fit locally, i live in hull and since the fit am getting numbness in my right hand and a weird sensation in my left knee? on the fit the saddle height was moved up and so was the stem. Should i got back to the fitter on tell him this?
the reson for the fit is because i am doing london to Paris next year for charity, my dad died of heart failure and want to be comfy on the ride, hope you can help withis for me
Nice vid very informative . Is there a video on reach and changing stem length?
Only an old-skool one: ua-cam.com/video/3f2nwmnvb4w/v-deo.html
Great video! Can someone with flat pedals have bike fit?
Yes absolutely
You guys need to come to USA and spend a month doing bike fits!!
I have to make a video of every time this guy says "AHHHHHH"
hey! I had all 4 of those problems, AND chondromalacia. I don’t recommend it at all. I even paid a fitter $350 and he couldn’t seem to remedy my knee pain that got to the point where I was injuring myself. Finally raised the saddle up, went through physical therapy and have been fine ever since. I also switched to 170 cranks and now I’m not so hypersensitive to saddle height, and much more comfortable.
Interesting, sorry to hear this. There will always be exceptions to the "rules". Bad that your bike fitter couldn't solve things the first time... The world needs more decent bike fitters, hopefully things will change!
Francis Cade Nah, it’s all good! It’s just been a part of my experience in cycling. The whole thing drove a curiosity that gave me better understanding of the biomechanics of cycling, and now I’m totally recovered and much more comfortable on the bike. Rode from Paris to Monaco over six days with a group of friends and never had any issues.
@@RyonBeachner nice ride!
I wonder what James thinks about integrated bars, given the constraints they then create? Future video?
He thinks they're a pain in the arse
Short video 😂
Francis Cade literally or figuratively 😏
Francis Cade I live in Japan but travel back to the UK to see family. When this is all over I fancy coming in for a bike fit just to hear James talk about how repulsive my current position is
Both
I find your videos extremely informative and all of what you say brings it down to a common sense level, Thanks and keep up the good work with the videos.( Just going to lower my saddle height a little:)
Do power meters in cranks / pedals not add this with cycling dynamics? e.g. pedalling efficiency or is this just black magic that may or may not improve your bio-dynamics?
The data you get from them?
Might alert you to imbalance for sure, but it's probably nothing you can't work out without them!
I've 2 questions for you, well, actually, for James... Sorry Francis....
I've got a new bike about 3 months ago, set it up myself by a mixture of approximate measurements from my old bike and general feel, and it seems grand... I've had no issues so far, should I still have a bike fit? Worred that it'll actually cause issues...
Secondly, any tips on changing cleats - honestly every time I swap out old cleats for new it takes me ages to get it right - I generally just use a sharpie to try and mark current position...