Why wasn't Ozawa's decoy fleet used to launch kamikaze planes? After all, if Japan was going to sacrifice it's 4 remaining good carriers, then you might as well try and get something out of it. And it's not like they would thrown away the lives of skilled pilots either. Just old models of the Zero.
Relating to shell/armor penetration video. Why is there no high speed footage of these tests? All I have seen are after the fact stills. HIgh speed cameras were developed well before the 30s, and there is high speed footage of the Manhattan project explosive lens developmet. Thank you.
About how long would it take for an average refit of a 1rst rate ship of the line in the age of sail and would a razzaid (how do you even spell that?) 1rst rate be any different aside from having less to do due to the smaller size? And was it that much more cost effective to have many smaller, but still powerful former ships of the line as far as upkeep and maintenance and still keeping the unwashed hordes of barbarians in their places?
In one of the duels you mentioned something about a convoy from China heading back to great britain that was a large amount of Britain's economy What would have happened if the United States had launched that attack earlier say before the war actually broke out and succeeded in either capturing or destroying the convoy. 2nd if the USA got Florida before the war or ever during it how would it affect the war. 3rd how often did the use of live oak actually change the course of a battle, whether prolonging it or winning the battle.
This video is great. I means, this all happened over 200 years ago, but it's still sad when you heard about the fates of the famous men and ships involved, and so cheerful to see good old Constitution still serving today, that photo with her in formation with Arleigh Burke class guided missile destroyers and the Blue Angels' Hornet jets is fantastic.
I am proud to say that I have a small piece of timber from one of the U.S.S Constitution's refits. I purchased it dockside in the gift shop after touring her in Boston Harbor about 40 years ago.
Thank you, Drach! I’d love to see the frigate duels series continue with fights vs. the French, Spanish, and well pretty much anyone the Royal Navy was pitted against during the “Long 18th Century”.
@@jeromethiel4323 And here I was thinking that the US used unpronounceable indian names in revenge for the poms using names that are pronounced completely differently to how they're spelt.
@clockworkgnome - Covered in Drach's "The Forgotten Fleet - US Navy Fighting Sail 1815-1860". ua-cam.com/video/z3JGnhe7L-Q/v-deo.htmlsi=vciq5dQjhKVMZgOL
Had planned to fly to the east coast and, among other things, visit the Constitution. But the flight was on 9/15/2001. So much for that idea. Everything military (West Point, Annapolis, Constitution )was flat out closed. Perhaps again, someday.
The information and photos on your website always ends up with me spending much more time than intended or that i have at the time and get myself in trouble
I would like to see an episode on the US ships of the line that were being readied for the war of 1812 and how they would have compared to their Royal Navy counterparts.
I'm not Drach (obviously,) but I do have some knowledge of this subject due to some research I did in preparing to write a historical fiction story. To the best of my knowledge, the ONLY USN Ship of the Line completed before the end of the war was USS Independence, nominally rated as a 74. Some references credited her with being pierced for 80 guns on 2 gundecks, others as pierced for 90. All of the guns she was supposed to be armed with were 32 pounders, long guns on the lower deck and "Columbiads" on the upper. The Columbiad was a bastardized 32, neither a "long" gun nor a Carronade, with none of the performance of the heavier long gun nor weight savings of the Carronade. I believe USS Independence has a Wikipedia page. She was fairly long lived although she mediocre as a 74. She came into her own after razeed into a frigate armed with 32# long guns (54?), fast and maneuverable. She was finally decommissioned and sold for scrap in 1912.
Great series Drach! Here is question/episode suggestion: How did the Royal Navy support it's world-wide network of coaling stations, circa 1860s to WWI? What were the typical coaling station facilities like? More generally, what were naval logistics like circa 1860s to WWI?
It amazes me how many of the ships that were captured during the "War of 1812" did not change names, just ownership - USS becoming HMS and vice versa. The story of Henry Hope is one I should look into more. Serving as aid de camp for King George and Queen Victoria is quite an accomplishment! (12:52) Thank you for this in depth wrap up, Drachinifel
I basically never watch sponsorship ad reads, but I make an exception for your Squarespace ones. I find your voice-over for those to be especially relaxing. :)
My mother, whose family were very poor, remembered the fund raising for the restoration of the Constitution in the 1920s, and contributed a few pennies to the fund.
Best channel on you tube by far. I thought I'd found one better called " big jugs". Imagine my disappointment when it consisted of pyrex and tupperware products😞
Henry Williams, a lieutenant on the Endymion (an American who met him later said 1st lieutenant, not sure about that), and part of the President's prize crew, went on to be a missionary in New Zealand. His leadership saw the first converts in the 15+ years the mission had been going, and he is remembered today for his extremely dubious translation of the treaty of Waitangi, and dodgy private land dealings.
I would love to see you do a video about the naval battle of Fort McHenry in Baltimore Maryland. That was the battle where the Star Spangled Banner was written and the entire Naval Operation was really interesting .
I went to the Chesapeake Mill the other week, quite interesting to know you're looking/walking on historic wood and reading about the history there. Can't wait now to see USS Constitution in a few weeks!
Loved this presentation. I often wondered what happened to the ships (and captains). All of them fought their ships heroically and deserve the attention you have given them.. Thank you.
Having had the pleasure of visiting the Constitution in Boston and a number of the replaced bits when I was working at the Washington Navy Yard, she is properly an object of national pride like HMS Victory. But they do put me in mind of an old saying: " This is my grandfather's axe. The head has been replaced twice and the handle four times, but it's still my grandfather's axe."
I wonder how many of these Captain's would believe that 200 years later an English Historian would be teaching the world about them and their contribution to the war efforts.
imagine getting assigned to a ship like the constitution , knowing, that someday, the one and only drachinifel will mention your ship in a post... oh..to be young...
I was touring HMS Victory in 1992 along with a young seaman from my division when this youngster asked the question that I think our RN Chief Petty Officer guide expected. "How would a battle between Constitution and Victory have gone?" In a dry, almost bored voice the Chief replied (as I recall) "It would have lasted about 2 broadsides." "Huh?" Seaman Ricky replied intelligently. "Ricky" I stepped in at this point, "You've seen Missouri and Wisconsin out in the Gulf, how long do you think a smaller cruiser would have lasted against one of them?" "Oh, I get it."
Its would be a short battle. Victory would win. Barring the usual raking broadside across the stern of the ship. Its a 1st rate versus a big frigate. USS Constitution 30 × 24-pounder (11 kg) long gun 20 × 32-pounder (15 kg) carronade 2 × 24-pounder (11 kg) bow chasers HMS Victory 30 × 32-pounders (15 kg) long gun 28 × 24-pounders (11 kg) 30 × 12-pounders (5 kg) 12 × 12-pounder (5 kg) 2 × medium 12-pounder (5 kg), 2 × 68-pounder carronade (31 kg) bow chasers There is only a two knot speed difference and the hull differences (armour) between a 1st rate and a heavily built frigate like Constitution, are huge. Its a WWII Light Cruiser against a WWII fast battleship, sans torpedoes. Constitution probably would not even be able to use her carronades due to their very short range. Carronades generally have half the range of a cannon. So even more outgunned. At closer ranges, Victory can shoot down from the greater height of her third deck into the deck and crew of Constitution. Constitution cannot do this crew killing tactic. Constitution would be overmatched by a 3rd rate 74, never mind a 1st rate. All stats from the wiki.
@@Yandarval a single broadside from a 74 immobilised a Frigate at the Battle of the Nile. It took one single broadside from HMS Leander a ship considered too small for line of battle to make one of the US 6 frigates to surrender. I doubt Constitution would even risk taking a broadside from victory.
@@Alex-cw3rz I agree. Some questions just need more that a "Dont be daft" as an answer. The why is needed. Few of us have Drach's levels of knowledge. Hopefully the poster learned a little knowledge. Then an use that to build on it later. They can use the "Dont be daft" line next time :)
Just recently found out that a family member...Fitz Babbitt who was killed on USS President as a lieutenant! They later named a destroyer USS Babbitt DD-128 after him!
The tiny little fact that USS President surrendered before any other ship but Endymion engaged her and her casualty levels were much higher than the average for a surrendering ship. Indicates that she was lost because amazingly the fastest ship in the royal navy with a similiar armament to President, which had a better crew on top, bested her.
Man, wait until you see what they put on ships masts!! Tits, cock, and everything in between. I'd have love to met one of the wood workers who made'm lmao!
An interesting thing I found out recently that the US vessel had to be at least 30% larger than the royal navy ship to beat it. Which I think calls into question both the idea that the American ships were really great firgates by 1812 (in 1797 yes but by 1812 - 1815) the fact the Royal navy thought they were outdated, poor designs of little use adds great weight to that. Even the rebuild of HMS President was explicitly justified to be built as a symbol of that capture but not because of the design, due to it being quite outdated and surprisingly slow. Also there was an idea that the average American sailor was better than the average royal navy sailor which again this fact puts paid to. Edit unfortunately google does not let you do links anymore but typing this into google will get up the source
@@karlbrundage7472 well you can just type it into Google. If you don't want to do that, then it would indicate that if I did give you a source you'd discard it anyway
@@Alex-cw3rz One should include citations when making such ridiculous, broad sweeping statements. You immediately launched a personal attack, 'are you describing yourself', which was totally uncalled for and reveals a tendency toward narrow minded subjectivity and a childish, confrontational attitude. Cheers!
Those charming colonial traditions,, someone insults you,, you challenge him to a duel lol... Good thing that tradition is dead, if we had more guys like that we'd have less guys like that lol....
I find them quite interesting, as they are relevant to Drach's work, compared with (say) the breakfast cereal ads on the Battleship New Jersey channel.
Pinned post for Q&A :)
Why wasn't Ozawa's decoy fleet used to launch kamikaze planes? After all, if Japan was going to sacrifice it's 4 remaining good carriers, then you might as well try and get something out of it. And it's not like they would thrown away the lives of skilled pilots either. Just old models of the Zero.
Relating to shell/armor penetration video. Why is there no high speed footage of these tests? All I have seen are after the fact stills. HIgh speed cameras were developed well before the 30s, and there is high speed footage of the Manhattan project explosive lens developmet. Thank you.
What is a receiving ship? Floating warehouse?
About how long would it take for an average refit of a 1rst rate ship of the line in the age of sail and would a razzaid (how do you even spell that?) 1rst rate be any different aside from having less to do due to the smaller size?
And was it that much more cost effective to have many smaller, but still powerful former ships of the line as far as upkeep and maintenance and still keeping the unwashed hordes of barbarians in their places?
In one of the duels you mentioned something about a convoy from China heading back to great britain that was a large amount of Britain's economy What would have happened if the United States had launched that attack earlier say before the war actually broke out and succeeded in either capturing or destroying the convoy. 2nd if the USA got Florida before the war or ever during it how would it affect the war. 3rd how often did the use of live oak actually change the course of a battle, whether prolonging it or winning the battle.
DRACH!!! You forgot (or inadvertently omitted) USS Constellation. Currently moored in Baltimore with some of her original 1797 keel still intact!!
This video is great. I means, this all happened over 200 years ago, but it's still sad when you heard about the fates of the famous men and ships involved, and so cheerful to see good old Constitution still serving today, that photo with her in formation with Arleigh Burke class guided missile destroyers and the Blue Angels' Hornet jets is fantastic.
Thinkin' the ship on the left is an Oliver Hazard Perry class frigate. Blurry pic.
I am proud to say that I have a small piece of timber from one of the U.S.S Constitution's refits. I purchased it dockside in the gift shop after touring her in Boston Harbor about 40 years ago.
Thank you, Drach! I’d love to see the frigate duels series continue with fights vs. the French, Spanish, and well pretty much anyone the Royal Navy was pitted against during the “Long 18th Century”.
As an American, I approve of the name HMS President. The ironies. That's like the reverse of USS His Royal Majesty.
More ironic is Americans taking French city names and just pronouncing them so poorly for centuries that for example Detroix became Detroit
@@derrickstorm6976 Meh. We've been butchering the Native Americans language for just as long. What makes France so special? ^-^
@@jeromethiel4323 And here I was thinking that the US used unpronounceable indian names in revenge for the poms using names that are pronounced completely differently to how they're spelt.
@@derrickstorm6976 Yeah that would be a shame if it were anybody other than the French getting their names mispronounced.
more like uss prime minister.
Honestly would like a combination video of all your Square space tutorials.
That would be awesome ASMR!
Hey Drach, a Guide episode on the USS Ohio (1820) would be great-If you haven’t already done one of course!
@clockworkgnome - Covered in Drach's "The Forgotten Fleet - US Navy Fighting Sail 1815-1860". ua-cam.com/video/z3JGnhe7L-Q/v-deo.htmlsi=vciq5dQjhKVMZgOL
@@rackstraw thanks!
Always love seeing Drach upload his videos.
Such variety and high quality.
I love the fact I can drive an hour east and see a piece of 1812 in the harbor.
Had planned to fly to the east coast and, among other things, visit the Constitution. But the flight was on 9/15/2001. So much for that idea. Everything military (West Point, Annapolis, Constitution )was flat out closed. Perhaps again, someday.
Hi Drach. Well done. "The rest of the story" is important and should never be forgotten.
The information and photos on your website always ends up with me spending much more time than intended or that i have at the time and get myself in trouble
MY FAVORITE SERIES IS BACK
I enjoyed that. I really hadn't thought about what happened later.
I would like to see an episode on the US ships of the line that were being readied for the war of 1812 and how they would have compared to their Royal Navy counterparts.
I'm not Drach (obviously,) but I do have some knowledge of this subject due to some research I did in preparing to write a historical fiction story. To the best of my knowledge, the ONLY USN Ship of the Line completed before the end of the war was USS Independence, nominally rated as a 74. Some references credited her with being pierced for 80 guns on 2 gundecks, others as pierced for 90. All of the guns she was supposed to be armed with were 32 pounders, long guns on the lower deck and "Columbiads" on the upper. The Columbiad was a bastardized 32, neither a "long" gun nor a Carronade, with none of the performance of the heavier long gun nor weight savings of the Carronade.
I believe USS Independence has a Wikipedia page. She was fairly long lived although she mediocre as a 74. She came into her own after razeed into a frigate armed with 32# long guns (54?), fast and maneuverable. She was finally decommissioned and sold for scrap in 1912.
Great series Drach!
Here is question/episode suggestion: How did the Royal Navy support it's world-wide network of coaling stations, circa 1860s to WWI? What were the typical coaling station facilities like? More generally, what were naval logistics like circa 1860s to WWI?
It amazes me how many of the ships that were captured during the "War of 1812" did not change names, just ownership - USS becoming HMS and vice versa.
The story of Henry Hope is one I should look into more. Serving as aid de camp for King George and Queen Victoria is quite an accomplishment! (12:52)
Thank you for this in depth wrap up, Drachinifel
It's Bad Luck to change a ship's name, and Sailors are notoriously superstitious...
All i know is, the shock of some of these defeats almost killed Jack Aubrey
What a Start in the weekend!
A video series on the Porter family would be interesting, they served through the 19th century.
I basically never watch sponsorship ad reads, but I make an exception for your Squarespace ones. I find your voice-over for those to be especially relaxing. :)
Thanks Drach.
Yay! I made it through an entire video.
Love the frigate duels
My mother, whose family were very poor, remembered the fund raising for the restoration of the Constitution in the 1920s, and contributed a few pennies to the fund.
Great narrative and really enjoyed the various paintings of the captains and the ships. Thanks!
"and would eventually die while undertaking anti-slavery patrols"
There are definitely worse ways to die. o7
Thanks Drach
Geez Drach. You didn’t have to make dinner. Thank you your tops. Glad we have time to spend together… my wife knows.
Best channel on you tube by far. I thought I'd found one better called " big jugs". Imagine my disappointment when it consisted of pyrex and tupperware products😞
my Friday is funner now
Henry Williams, a lieutenant on the Endymion (an American who met him later said 1st lieutenant, not sure about that), and part of the President's prize crew, went on to be a missionary in New Zealand. His leadership saw the first converts in the 15+ years the mission had been going, and he is remembered today for his extremely dubious translation of the treaty of Waitangi, and dodgy private land dealings.
I would love to see you do a video about the naval battle of Fort McHenry in Baltimore Maryland. That was the battle where the Star Spangled Banner was written and the entire Naval Operation was really interesting .
>Drach nearly said "HMS United States"
TOO SOON
I went to the Chesapeake Mill the other week, quite interesting to know you're looking/walking on historic wood and reading about the history there. Can't wait now to see USS Constitution in a few weeks!
Loved this presentation. I often wondered what happened to the ships (and captains). All of them fought their ships heroically and deserve the attention you have given them.. Thank you.
Lots of back and forth in this conflict regarding captured ships
Having had the pleasure of visiting the Constitution in Boston and a number of the replaced bits when I was working at the Washington Navy Yard, she is properly an object of national pride like HMS Victory.
But they do put me in mind of an old saying: " This is my grandfather's axe. The head has been replaced twice and the handle four times, but it's still my grandfather's axe."
The last time I was this early the Spam Bots hadn't spawned!
Why didn't anybody change the names of the ships
It's bad luck. Sailors are a superstitious lot.
Considered by some to be an unlucky thing to do. Plus, it's cool to rub it in your foe's face by keeping their name on a ship you captured.
@@spikespa5208 I get the see what I did aspect
I wonder how many of these Captain's would believe that 200 years later an English Historian would be teaching the world about them and their contribution to the war efforts.
“Damn redcoats never do shut up unless you sink them.” - Those officers, presumably.
The perfect ending to one of your best series; thank you for this, Drach!
imagine getting assigned to a ship like the constitution , knowing, that someday, the one and only drachinifel will mention your ship in a post... oh..to be young...
Pretty sure joining the navy to serve your country trumps any kind of appearance in historical media
I thought there was a new hornblower manga
Conclusion: USS Constitution was the winner ;)
It's technically still the flag ship of US Navy, just like HMS Victory is that for Royal Navy.
Yeah hiding up river while rotting away sounds like a win to me.
@@Alex-cw3rz I think you are confusing her with one of her sisters, Old Ironsides was at sea when the war ended.
Given the scale of her various refits, and what Drach said about that mill, it seems more likely that HMS Chesapeake was the winner.
Damn straight.
USS Constitution is good example of the Ship of Theseus.
That 1855 vs war of 1812 uss constitution is the real ship of thesesus
I need some sleep,
I read this as frigate FUELS like coal or diesel or kerosene or heavy oil.
👍
Is there a video game which would enable a Constitution v Victory duel?
Empire Total War I think
I was touring HMS Victory in 1992 along with a young seaman from my division when this youngster asked the question that I think our RN Chief Petty Officer guide expected. "How would a battle between Constitution and Victory have gone?"
In a dry, almost bored voice the Chief replied (as I recall) "It would have lasted about 2 broadsides." "Huh?" Seaman Ricky replied intelligently. "Ricky" I stepped in at this point, "You've seen Missouri and Wisconsin out in the Gulf, how long do you think a smaller cruiser would have lasted against one of them?" "Oh, I get it."
Its would be a short battle. Victory would win. Barring the usual raking broadside across the stern of the ship. Its a 1st rate versus a big frigate.
USS Constitution
30 × 24-pounder (11 kg) long gun
20 × 32-pounder (15 kg) carronade
2 × 24-pounder (11 kg) bow chasers
HMS Victory
30 × 32-pounders (15 kg) long gun
28 × 24-pounders (11 kg)
30 × 12-pounders (5 kg)
12 × 12-pounder (5 kg)
2 × medium 12-pounder (5 kg), 2 × 68-pounder carronade (31 kg) bow chasers
There is only a two knot speed difference and the hull differences (armour) between a 1st rate and a heavily built frigate like Constitution, are huge. Its a WWII Light Cruiser against a WWII fast battleship, sans torpedoes.
Constitution probably would not even be able to use her carronades due to their very short range. Carronades generally have half the range of a cannon. So even more outgunned.
At closer ranges, Victory can shoot down from the greater height of her third deck into the deck and crew of Constitution. Constitution cannot do this crew killing tactic.
Constitution would be overmatched by a 3rd rate 74, never mind a 1st rate.
All stats from the wiki.
@@Yandarval a single broadside from a 74 immobilised a Frigate at the Battle of the Nile. It took one single broadside from HMS Leander a ship considered too small for line of battle to make one of the US 6 frigates to surrender. I doubt Constitution would even risk taking a broadside from victory.
@@Alex-cw3rz I agree. Some questions just need more that a "Dont be daft" as an answer. The why is needed. Few of us have Drach's levels of knowledge.
Hopefully the poster learned a little knowledge. Then an use that to build on it later.
They can use the "Dont be daft" line next time :)
Just recently found out that a family member...Fitz Babbitt who was killed on USS President as a lieutenant! They later named a destroyer USS Babbitt DD-128 after him!
Portsmouth Navy Yard is in New Hampshire, not Maine.
It's in Kittery Maine, across the river from Portsmouth.
37th, 27 September 2024
Don’t forget Jack Aubrey was captured as well.
USS Constitution: The Orginal 'Grand Old Lady'.
Well, I think HMS Victory would fit the title of "The Original 'Grand Old Lady'" far better
@@FltCaptAlan I don't think even Victory deserves that title - Sovereign of the Seas predates her.
:)
;
Hey babe I’m going to sleep, Drach just posted.
😴
⚓️
The last time I was this early USS President was defeated by an entire squadron and not William James' single ship.
The tiny little fact that USS President surrendered before any other ship but Endymion engaged her and her casualty levels were much higher than the average for a surrendering ship. Indicates that she was lost because amazingly the fastest ship in the royal navy with a similiar armament to President, which had a better crew on top, bested her.
Holy Smokes,,, Am I imagining things or does the painting of Isaac Hull suggest an ENORNOUS GENITALIA?????
SERIOUSLY!!!!
It was called "Living well" back then.
@@robertf3479 More like "Luving Large"...
Man, wait until you see what they put on ships masts!! Tits, cock, and everything in between. I'd have love to met one of the wood workers who made'm lmao!
The largest amount of intact timbers from the War of 1812 isn't that mill.
It's the USS Constitution, which is still in commission XD
Less than 20% of Constitution’s structure is original to 1797. Drach’s tour video discusses that down on the Orlop deck I believe.
An interesting thing I found out recently that the US vessel had to be at least 30% larger than the royal navy ship to beat it. Which I think calls into question both the idea that the American ships were really great firgates by 1812 (in 1797 yes but by 1812 - 1815) the fact the Royal navy thought they were outdated, poor designs of little use adds great weight to that. Even the rebuild of HMS President was explicitly justified to be built as a symbol of that capture but not because of the design, due to it being quite outdated and surprisingly slow. Also there was an idea that the average American sailor was better than the average royal navy sailor which again this fact puts paid to.
Edit unfortunately google does not let you do links anymore but typing this into google will get up the source
Wow, that's a lot of cope.................
@@karlbrundage7472 are you describing yourself? These are just facts.
@@Alex-cw3rz Care to share your source?
@@karlbrundage7472 well you can just type it into Google. If you don't want to do that, then it would indicate that if I did give you a source you'd discard it anyway
@@Alex-cw3rz One should include citations when making such ridiculous, broad sweeping statements. You immediately launched a personal attack, 'are you describing yourself', which was totally uncalled for and reveals a tendency toward narrow minded subjectivity and a childish, confrontational attitude. Cheers!
Those charming colonial traditions,, someone insults you,, you challenge him to a duel lol... Good thing that tradition is dead, if we had more guys like that we'd have less guys like that lol....
The long Squarespace ads right at the beginning are off-putting and a reduction in quality from past videos. Downvoted.
This channel is more than a hobby. It's his business. The dude has to make money.
I'm always glad to see Drach has a sponsor. I want him to be able to continue his research and videomaking.
@@bearzilla2462 the Squarespace ads at 90 seconds and chapter marked at the front of Friday videos.
Why not just skip forward if it is bothering you that much?
I find them quite interesting, as they are relevant to Drach's work, compared with (say) the breakfast cereal ads on the Battleship New Jersey channel.