Don't need the tent because I've got my Banshee but, if I win, I'll give it to my 15 year old son for when he's old enough to realise the joys of wild camping. Good charity though so I may just donate it back if he doesn't want it
Paul, your video on facing fears of “wild camping,” spurred me to do just that. I hiked in two miles from my front door, to a secluded spot in a nature reserve near me. Set up a hammock with a tarp. Slept like a baby through the night. Thank you sir for getting me out to do this challenge, I am 70-years-young and ready to do it again.
That's awesome, especially with a hammock set-up... I guess the weather's been mild recently & that sleeping in a hammock (with a bugnet & tarp over it I assume) could be more comfortable than being in the ground in a tent...!?🤔 I've got a 2 year old hammock set-up, but not used or tested yet due to being injured & having my dog with me... Hopefully I'll give it a go next Spring, but good on U...!👍✔️💯👊
From someone battling dementia suffering depression I get great pleasure watching you brave the elements with a very positive attitude and cheerful persona !
I have that same Decathlon tent, its a decent tent, nearly £300 shocking to see one just abandoned like that. Not a typical 'festival tent'. However, a google of the logo 'showforce' leads to a UK event and festival crewing company, so that tent likely belongs to the company so even more baffling to see it abandoned in the peak district. Stolen perhaps?
The tent in question belongs to Mr R. Sole . I generally find that every sport and hobby has one and unfortunately gets everyone a bad name. Once again a great video Paul and an indication that the camping season is here 😊👍
That's the issue with UK actually. Everything is privately owned. So they now want to abolish the right to roam because they want to keep all those acres to themselves
I think they’re trying to protect the grouse and other hunting birds. That’s my take on it. Wild campers will inevitably cause movement amongst those birds and the owners want the birds in one place where they can be shot by their guests. Very little to do with anything else. All to do with charging the hunters and making loads of money. From the comments I read earlier in the press this week from the judge so far, he seems to be having some difficulty in understanding the landowners rationale. I think for the likes of us simple folk that’s roughy translated as ‘sling your hook’
Great video Paul, As long as your responsible and LNT you should be allowed to wild camp and roam as often and as much as one wants imo, I'm happy I live in Scotland and you have the right to roam and can wild camp pretty much anywhere,Just follow the Scottish Outdoor Access Code and use common sense and your all good,Keep up the good work!💯🥾⛺👍🏻
I'm from a Nordic country and we have Everyman's rules which are basically like common sense rules how to behave in nature. And our laws allow people to camp and hike all over the country. I think that's how it should be. Like what harm are we doing (when behaving right) when walking or camping for a night out in nature?? Makes no sense to ban that, it's baffling
"As long as your responsible and LNT you should be allowed to wild camp and roam as often and as much as one wants imo," It's (way) more complicated than that though. If somebody is camping on your land and they get hit by a falling tree then who's responsible? The camper will blame the land owner's poor maintenance and the land and the owner will claim that it's not possible for them to constantly check all the trees on their (sometimes really freaking huge) area's of land. A massive lawsuit begins and if the court finds in favour of the camper then suddenly thousands of landowners have to spend hundreds and hundreds of millions making their land safe for the odd-chance that somebody might decide to camp on it without invitation or consent from the owner and do something stupid like swim into a cold lake and drown. The idea that all campers have common sense is, sadly, very optimistic and legally there will have to be made some serious exceptions to the concept of responsibility.
@@user-og9fg2pz5pwe never had that here to ban it, property rights began with land rights and we don't really have proper wilderness which is publicly owned. We also now have the highest population density in Europe so it is a very different dynamic to say Sweden.
@@RichardEnglanderyeah but thing is, it's all the forests and outdoor areas that are free to roam. So not just wilderness areas. But anyway, population and building density propably does play a role. And the history of it all as well 😄
The sad, and frustrating, thing is that almost everyone who goes into the wild leaves no trace, but relatively few "******ers" just don't give a rats a$$ and ruin it by leaving litter, abandoned equipment and organic waste 💩 If they can be made to stay at home, problem would be solved. Wishful thinking 😞
Here in Germany, we have not had such "aristocratic privileges" for centuries. Access to nature is regulated by nature conservation laws. Since we are a federal state, each federal government is responsible for local nature conservation laws and only in 3 federal states an old rule has been preserved: "overnight stay in nature for "non-motorized hikers" for 1 night". The old rule only applied to "hikers", but the modern interpretation also applies to cyclists and canoeists. But this rule has a restrictive addition: "if no other regulations speak against it". "Other rules" can be: nature conservation and private law. "Private law" is the simplest, because you can very often assume that it is public land. If you are lucky enough to meet a landowner (usually a farmer), you can ask. According to the saying "If you ask nicely, you get nice answers", I have always received approval in such cases - always with the obvious requirement to leave everything as you found it and not leave any rubbish lying around. Crossing private property in nature (not in Settlements) is always allowed - as long as you behave properly. "Nature conservation" is much more problematic, because the essence of modern German nature conservation is: people are locked out of nature! Completely idiotic: how are children supposed to learn to appreciate something that they are not allowed to experience? Our Danish neighbors do it much better: Sleeping overnight in nature is basically forbidden. Period. Surprisingly, it was the Ministry of Nature Conservation itself that realized some years ago that this could not be a solution. Therefore, the department set up 400 official bivouac sites as a "test balloon." The project was such an immediate success that there are now well over 1100 bivouac sites in this small country, now also for paddlers along the beautiful Baltic Sea beaches and on the most beautiful rivers. The sites are equipped with everything from "nothing" (a post with the national coat of arms and you can pitch your tent within a radius of 10 m) to "luxury sites" with sanitary buildings with porcelain toilets and flush water and wooden shelters. Most sites have a fireplace with a grill and firewood is usually provided. You pay a very small fee for this service. There is usually someone in the neighborhood who comes by regularly, brings wood, collects garbage and collects the fee. However, many places are free. If you ever consider getting to know Denmark's beautiful and not at all boring nature, use this service, it's great! (udinaturen.dk/map-page?scExtIds=1150,1303,6586_4-5®=2514,2517,6684,6685,6686&adScIds= ) You *still* have many more opportunities to be out and about in great nature in Great Britain than I do in Germany. Here, cultural landscapes dominate and we don't have anything like the "Lake District" or the Scottish Highlands, especially not so spread out across the country that you have short journeys, no matter where you live. Yes, we have beautiful low mountain ranges in the lower middle of the country and the Alps and their foothills in the south. But as a northern German you have fewer options locally or you have to travel far. In the low mountain ranges everything is taken over by commercial tourism, free overnight stays are prohibited, but there are at least campsites... The Alps are now large nature reserves, bivouacking is prohibited there, but in many places the Alpine (protection) right to bivouacking (in emergencies) has been preserved. Off the tourist hiking trails and above a certain altitude you can "cheat" your way through. Years ago in Norway I once was allowed to put up my tent next to a mountain hut (which is like a mountain hotel) - I couldn't afford to spend the night in the hut, Norway is *really* expensive. I don't remember whether I had to pay a small fee, but I was allowed to use the sanitary facilities. Overall it is no longer nice outdoors in Germany and Austria... "Stealth camping" is the order of the day and you always have the feeling of being "caught".
Love your vids Paul! They've inspired me to start wild camping. Leave no trace, respect the land and leave your camp site better than you found it. Simple rules. Keep up the good work mate.
Interesting video and information on the current debate. Knew the story of the mass 'trespass' Its time we had the same freedoms in England as in Scotland, to roam freely in most areas. The mantra of most knowledge hikers, campers and lovers of TGO is you don't spoil what you love to enjoy!!! Be considerate, be sensible and leave no trace..... Unfortunately there will always be a minority who spoil things. It is up to us who want that freedom to roam to make sure things are seen to be respected. Time to allow us in England all access to most areas as in Scotland.
Hi Paul, your videos now more than ever are getting me through my recovery as recently had a new knee joint replacement, so I am off the hills for a few months as I recover, but hopefully once I am back outdoors I can continue wild camping up on kinder and beyond!!
I'm so glad we don't have the same access and camping restrictions you guys have down there. I knew nothing about it until I started watching these videos on UA-cam, I just assumed the whole UK was the same as here in Scotland.
Hi Paul, great video. I do a lot of wild camping and also take the kids on the odd occasion, seeing people leave tents and litter really does my head in. They're not only ruining it for us, but my kids generation and there kids. The right to roam are hard fought, and easily lost. Please people, if you carry it up, take it back down. Sorry for the rant😂, like I said great video. Take it easy👍
The last time I went up Kinder using the route you took, was in the early 80s. It's not changed much. I camped up there a few times in the 80s, can't say I ever gave a second thought to whether or not I should be there. At 78 I just wish I could do it now. But I can still watch some other silly bugger (sic) do it
Well done Paul another great wild camp. With some of the problems in trying to wild camp down south it really makes me appreciate living in Scotland. In normal circumstances I would totally agree with you about the abandoned tent but I'll reserve my opinion because I don't know what exactly happened to the folks in the tent ie medical emergency etc. Like yourself I really get annoyed with people leaving a mess behind them. Carry on with the good work bud 🤜🤛
It’s extraordinary to see the mess that is left behind by some people these days when “wild camping”! Whatever happened to: Take nothing but memories and photographs and leave nothing but footsteps! It’s changed so much. I can no longer reach the tops of the fells, my knees are “knackered” and I’m old, but even at lower levels you can find assorted detritus left. This varies from “portable barbecues” and containers right through to actual tents (which I can’t understand at all, our tents were precious to us and a significant investment!).
I've only just started to watch your wild camping videos Paul, and I really appreciate your natural and genuine approach. Nice pace to the vids and great 'wild' content. Look forward to catching you in a rain or snow storm soon. Bravo from Borneo 😊
Really good vid and camp. Magic, there's land out there. Fairly tough wind but temps keep the severity of the experience down. Don't like setting up in dark just for the reason you missed staking it all out. Land access, smaller and smaller all over the world. Ill prepared new campers I would think. Too much stuff to begin with. They may have had to leave eiither weather or some issue. Hear the story/facts first. Not good. Tear it down stake it out secure all the stuff best you can. Tell someone post a note on a board at the parking area with contact info. We are all in it together. All good from east Kentucky USA. Next time
Hi Paul, I must admit that I've never watched one of your videos before, but as hubby and I walked (or maybe ran, I can't remember 😂) past you with our dogs on Kinder Road, as you were coming off the hill in the morning, I thought I'd have a watch 😅 Anyway, I did enjoy it 😊 Chrissie
Paul, all I can say mate is that am glad am north of the border, far easier laws to follow than those that you find in England and Wales. I noticed this when I did St Cuthberts Way from Lindisfarne to Melrose. I didnt realise that you have all these convoluted laws with terms like bridle paths and common land. We are truly blessed up here where by in large the assumption is you can access the land including inland waterways for un-motorised access including wild camping not exceeding 2 nights.
Great video. Love autumn as well. Flextail stuff is pretty 💪 that new pump is good and very quiet compared to earlier versions. I have the 3.0 in black 👌 wish the buttons were a bit easier in the dark though.
Great story, I enjoy the historical content as well as your camping content. Keep up the good work! If the landowners win it will be interesting to see how the court justifies it knowing it won't go over well!
Had idea for a video Mr Messner good sir. Interview some members of Mountain Rescue and maybe join them when training if you can. Very much enjoyed this one btw, excellent work.
I've done this route before and that hill was a slog! My flextail is very comfy. I got the larger pillow too from them and that's best I've used so far. The muggles definitely lugged that 11kg tent not expecting bad weather. I bet someone's dad's probably wondering where his tents gone.. No excuse tho.
The abandoned tent was bad but I've been walking the Peak District for many years and I've never seen such a thing before so it can't be common. Who knows what circumstances brought that about? Perhaps an emergency exit? I doubt many people would want to leave all that kit that they will have paid for. As for the court case, it would make no sense to prevent camping while allowing access to walk. So, the logic follows that the banning of one could lead to attempts to ban the other later. We must keep our access rights. People are allowed access and camping in Scotland. It causes no problems there so how can it be a problem in England & Wales? Wild camping is hardly going to ever be a mass interest.
I walked from Hayfield up to Kinder Scout in 1948 with my grandmother, stopping for a Vimto on the way. I recall she had a great fear of being caught by gamekeepers even then! We took the bus from Marple to get to Hayfield.
Great camp Paul nice one. I was in that small woodland last week you mentioned, a lot of trees cut down for firewood and fire scars dotted around which is a shame. Last week i rejoined the BMC to help with their fight with the right to roam. Be a good idea if everyone signed up to aid their effort. ATB and keep up the great vids
Only 8% of land is roamable out there?! That's nuts 😮 imo it should be so that the areas that aren't anyone's yard or fields that are actively being for farming (planted with stuff etc) are free for hiking and camping. Following LNT of course! Hope the court case goes well for ya!
One of the few issues is that England is more densely populated than most other countries. The only way I can see wild camping surviving is if it is a grey area, and rather fringe activity. If it became too common, the issues and fallout from it would be impossible to ignore by legislators.
Enjoyed the video Paul! Well done for persevering in those conditions. That tent at the end! What was that all about? Unbelievable. Hope you’re well bud. Gav
I'm glad your talking about this issue. There are some UA-cam wild campers who claim not to understand the issues. I grateful the mass trespassers made the effort to understand.
here in West Aus you can acquire a miners right for $30 bucks, its handy when I'm real far from the city and I want a real isolated place. I just keep some gold panning stuff in the car, then I'm suddenly a "prospector" and can camp on crown land
I have heard of this and wainright hiking the fells in the peak district, he wrote many guide books or his travels, not forgetting the lake district. They were pioneers of their time.
Here in Norway the right to roam and camp (with some restrictions) is written in law. A common problem in the media is honeypot sites. In this I include whole areas which are popular not just with locals but with tourists from all over europe, not uncommonly driving a motorhome/camper. If you fill up the larder at home, don't pay to camp and still need facilties like "free" toilets (paid for by somebody) and refuse collection you're arguably not the ideal tourist for the local area. (Of course the "worst" problem is when guests don't use proper toilets and rubbish disposal facilities. 🤢😡).
they say wild camping is illegal in the UK yet there's been 2 tents on a green just down from our house for the last month. nobody from the council have been round to move them on 😂
Wonderfully informative video. Praises to those 6 fellows who paved the way for the current day Right-To-Roam Laws. Their taking a mighty stand for accessibility to open lands was monumental. I hope 🙏 your current day laws are not going to be restricted by the present day's Supreme Court -- that would be such an affront to all Adventurers and Wild Campers.
I love that woods on the river kinder. It's great to stay with the grand kids 15 months and 3 yrs. And that hill up from by the camp site is a killer 😂
No, they went to prison so that you can walk there! You still ain't allowed to camp in most places including the Peak district. I didn't think that the current Dartmoor case had any implications for walking access, only to the fact that wild camping is currently legal on parts of Dartmoor.
The abandoned tent is disgusting. The logo is Showforce which is a company that provides crew for events. Anyone that feels strongly about this should complain to the company.
I did a circuit of the edges last weekend and that tent was there then. It was a pretty wild Saturday night and I was somewhat sheltered on the other side, but we had hail, thunder and freezing temps(puddles were iced over and exposed edge of tent was frozen).
You really should try hiking over in the US sometime. I've watched a lot of your videos, and we have something over here that you might enjoy. I'm not sure you would have heard of it, but we like to call it "clear skies" . In the day the sky often looks blue! And at night we have these things called stars! I know the gray clouds are pretty, but you might like the change. :)
We have quite a few dark parks in the UK where artificial lighting is at a minimum. I've seen the northern lights and the milky way barely an hours drive from my house
I get the tone but we have plenty here too, you just have to choose the days which are much more frequent than you would think. I was in the Lake District this week and between the cloudy days we had brilliant sunshine and clear skies, even in October
If you’re getting burger pics while you’re out camping, I think it would be a really funny video if you did a fine dining camp. 😂 Take one of those small camping tables that snap together. Take a white table cloth, a nice white plate, knife and fork. Napkin, candle with holder, etc. You could even do a roll (to prevent wrinkles) on a button down and sports jacket. Cook yourself some sauteed green beans, roast potato’s, and steak. It would be a funny video and you can have a good picture to reply with.🤣
Paul. as large as the USA is, there are not too many places on the eastern side that you can just wander off into and pitch camp. I am in Ohio and the nearest place i can sort of WILD camp is in the south east national forest area. 120 miles from where I live. its much easier out west in the desert to wild camp. But thats 2000 miles away from me.
The selfish cretins are destroying wild camping for those who care about nature and the country side. I’ve wild camped for 30 years and never come into conflict with any land owner. I was on Kinder a couple of weeks ago after a break of 3 years due to a back injury, the place is a shit hole now, I couldn’t believe its decline.
I'd love to wildcamp like that here in Switzerland somewhere in the hills! There's plenty of space, but we have to travel and hike far before we get above tree line, where it is allowed.
Hi Paul, I really wish you could find your way to the U.S. We have endless backpacking. May know of the AT, PCT and the CDT but the truth is there are endless backpacking trails all over the U.S. What is happening in the UK is just wrong. I wish you well.
Hi Paul. I'm looking at a 4 season tent and have been looking at the SC2. I absolutely love my Helm 2 compact. It's great value for money, spacious and does everything I need it to do. It is however only a 3 season tent. My question is how does the SC2 compare to the Helm2 as visually they look similar. Could you maybe do a comparison video with both tents next to each other? Great content as usual.
I was up at the Wool Packs in similar claggy conditions 3 weeks back and I woke up to dozens and dozens of used toilet tissue flying around. It made my heart sink as I try and bring as much 'others people's litter' as I can off Kinder, but I had to draw a line at chasing their poop on an empty stomach. I had a great night's kip on my flextail.
The odd abandoned tent is nothing compared with the horrors committed by landowners over the decades. Whole villages no longer exist because they interfered with somebody's view. Even today rights of way are blocked , walkers are regularly intimidated and threatened. If you 'own' large tracts of countryside you can't treat it like its your back garden. If no harm is being committed then YOU have nothing to answer for, and that includes the stupid actions of others.
That tent that was left is a joke. I bet they're not coming back for it either. I call them idiots but with slightly naughtier language. Really gets to me this stuff. I am teaching my daughter about wild camping and going on adventures and she is always saying let's put up this rubbish daddy. So we always have an extra rubbish bag in the day sack when we are out.
Good point about the 8%. Ironically all tax payers subsidise landowners through government grants. Perhaps in future government grants which are funded by us should include access rights for those that are funding landowners income?!
When you think of the pack size of the abandoned tent and the chair, why would anyone want to carry something that big over any sort of distance? If it was me? I would just want to pitch that tent at the back of my car.
In the supreme court, I suspect the court will find in Mr Alexander Darwall's favour. I suspect they will outline Mr Darwalls land with an exclusion zone, leaving access to other parts outside of that exclusion zone which may be camped upon at the land owners discretion.
That would be because if you’re claiming asylum then it’s legal to enter a country however you choose, but it’s not legal to wild camp. Claiming asylum is covered by international law, wild camping isn’t. Wonder how many other human rights we would lose if it was all within the remit of our governments. Anyway, hope that’s filled a gap in your knowledge up.
@@Howling-Mad-Murdocknot quite, people seeking Asylum are supposed to go to the first safe country, not get to France and then pay to be transported to the UK. We are an Island, we have Ltd room, we can’t take in everyone.
@@cloverite You’re wrong about having to go to the first country. The UN refugee charter does not say that and UK case law backs this up. We don’t take in everyone, far from it.
@@Howling-Mad-Murdockyour wrong, refugees are allowed to enter, but the ones coming here by boat are illegal, and they've passed through a safe country.
At least that’s one thing (and there’s bloody few) that the US got right. Federal forest land and BLM public land you can wander and camp anywhere you wish, unless it is specifically marked off. Reasons it will be off limits make sense such as seasonal habitats, sensitive areas, or rehabilitation of an area. I was recently in Acadia National Park in Maine and a couple trails were closed temporarily due to nesting peregrine falcons. Totally understandable. I don’t think you can wild camp in all national parks here, but you can in the huge national forests. It’s a bit confusing sometimes as we have national parks, monuments, forests, and reserves. Then you get into Bureau of Land Management land and state parks. Bottom line is we have a lot of opportunities but just have to learn the rules.
I love this walk! It was my first hike up Kinder a few years back. William Clough is so beautiful! Never wild camped myself, but I will fight for the right to do it! I think the Darwalls will lose this one one and it will re-cement the right to roam laws. It was one of those special walks for me knowing the history behind it before I went.
Nothing like getting up in the morning, walking a couple of metres and thinking, "I should have pitched here".😉🤣🤣 Although careless campers do have the capacity to ruin it for us all, I find that, speaking to Rangers, they're happy to distinguish between the types of camper they have to worry about and us. So hopefully, even if tougher restrictions do come in, we'll still get away with pitching up late, leaving early, leaving no trace and generally being respectful.🤞🤞
Cant understand folk abandoning all their gear... found a Bobcat near Glencoe last weekend...been there a while, but still in good nick...name and number on sleeping mat, so text it and lady said her stuff had been stolen... but i was welcome to it... dont think so, judging by how thin her sleeping bag was... reckon she got cold and decided wild camping not for her! 😂
I didn't think anyone could wild camp in England. But if nobody polices it you can do it all over the place. How long you do it for depends on the busy bodies.
Problem is we all fall victim to the dirty deeds of idiots causing everyone else to be put in the same box. We love the outdoors, we leave no trace, tidy up and carry trash out instead of leaving anything behind. We do it hundreds of times and one day a group of bloody pagans ruin it for everyone. Sometimes I believe they do it purpose, just because they can. Sorry for any misspelling , got me phone on charge ( causes funny typing )and English isn’t my first language. Cheers
Noticed the biolite lamp, any good? looks nice but seems expensive. or maybe I'm just cheap. 😁 Abandoned tent 😡 this is the type of thing that will ruin camping for everyone as will be used by landowners to argue against it.
Surprised you don’t clean your pegs before putting them in the bag! A few seconds with some grass and moss and they come up like new,then no cleaning when I get home!!😅
It's a pity you had to leave that tent there. You are but one man though. It would have been my inclination to stake it out correctly and seal it up, (they didn't even use all the lines ffs) and then maybe head back up with a mate the next day with empty packs and clear it out. Otherwise, thank you for another great video.
Sad that in many countries around the world, the majority of land, be it quality or not, is controlled by a scant few. Just because hundreds or a thousand years ago, a man and his cohorts with sword, took mastery of the lands by threat of death, and claimed themselves lords, kings and chiefs, their decendants maintain that ownership. Most people can barely maintain the plot of land that their home sits on, it's baffling that millions of acres are owned just to be owned by a single person. Not being stewards of the land, just to say it is theirs and go away.
Charity Tent Raffle raffall.com/367789/enter-raffle-to-win-charity-fundraiser-oex-bobcat-1-tent-hosted-by-paul-messner
Don't need the tent because I've got my Banshee but, if I win, I'll give it to my 15 year old son for when he's old enough to realise the joys of wild camping. Good charity though so I may just donate it back if he doesn't want it
Paul, your video on facing fears of “wild camping,” spurred me to do just that. I hiked in two miles from my front door, to a secluded spot in a nature reserve near me. Set up a hammock with a tarp. Slept like a baby through the night. Thank you sir for getting me out to do this challenge, I am 70-years-young and ready to do it again.
That's awesome, especially with a hammock set-up... I guess the weather's been mild recently & that sleeping in a hammock (with a bugnet & tarp over it I assume) could be more comfortable than being in the ground in a tent...!?🤔 I've got a 2 year old hammock set-up, but not used or tested yet due to being injured & having my dog with me... Hopefully I'll give it a go next Spring, but good on U...!👍✔️💯👊
@@Kev.B.4311 it is a lot easier on the old bones, lol
Well done!
Cool I’m dying to go but a bit nervous the vids defo help - well done 🎉
@@charleshindley-lange-pw2sw Do it, don’t over think it, (what I was doing), and get out there.
From someone battling dementia suffering depression I get great pleasure watching you brave the elements with a very positive attitude and cheerful persona !
That abandoned tent at the end is shocking
Scotland is littered with abandoned tents and human poo sadly
That's the fly-camping (see fly-tipping) that the lord of the manor is worried about.
I have that same Decathlon tent, its a decent tent, nearly £300 shocking to see one just abandoned like that. Not a typical 'festival tent'. However, a google of the logo 'showforce' leads to a UK event and festival crewing company, so that tent likely belongs to the company so even more baffling to see it abandoned in the peak district. Stolen perhaps?
The tent in question belongs to Mr R. Sole . I generally find that every sport and hobby has one and unfortunately gets everyone a bad name. Once again a great video Paul and an indication that the camping season is here 😊👍
You can always come to Sweden where wild camping is allowed everywhere except near privately owned homes. Only two rules: don’t destroy don’t disturb.
I really miss Sweden worked in vasteros (dodgy spelling)... wonderful place and people
That's the issue with UK actually. Everything is privately owned. So they now want to abolish the right to roam because they want to keep all those acres to themselves
Sweden the country of common sense!
If I did visit Sweden it would have to be where
my help could assist Sweden defend itself
from Russia, Should I bring a shovel to dig?
@@jcee2259 no, bring an armoured tank division
I like the local history parts. Gives the area you're in a lot of context.
I think they’re trying to protect the grouse and other hunting birds. That’s my take on it. Wild campers will inevitably cause movement amongst those birds and the owners want the birds in one place where they can be shot by their guests. Very little to do with anything else. All to do with charging the hunters and making loads of money. From the comments I read earlier in the press this week from the judge so far, he seems to be having some difficulty in understanding the landowners rationale. I think for the likes of us simple folk that’s roughy translated as ‘sling your hook’
Great video Paul,
As long as your responsible and LNT you should be allowed to wild camp and roam as often and as much as one wants imo,
I'm happy I live in Scotland and you have the right to roam and can wild camp pretty much anywhere,Just follow the Scottish Outdoor Access Code and use common sense and your all good,Keep up the good work!💯🥾⛺👍🏻
I'm from a Nordic country and we have Everyman's rules which are basically like common sense rules how to behave in nature. And our laws allow people to camp and hike all over the country. I think that's how it should be. Like what harm are we doing (when behaving right) when walking or camping for a night out in nature?? Makes no sense to ban that, it's baffling
"As long as your responsible and LNT you should be allowed to wild camp and roam as often and as much as one wants imo,"
It's (way) more complicated than that though. If somebody is camping on your land and they get hit by a falling tree then who's responsible? The camper will blame the land owner's poor maintenance and the land and the owner will claim that it's not possible for them to constantly check all the trees on their (sometimes really freaking huge) area's of land. A massive lawsuit begins and if the court finds in favour of the camper then suddenly thousands of landowners have to spend hundreds and hundreds of millions making their land safe for the odd-chance that somebody might decide to camp on it without invitation or consent from the owner and do something stupid like swim into a cold lake and drown.
The idea that all campers have common sense is, sadly, very optimistic and legally there will have to be made some serious exceptions to the concept of responsibility.
@@user-og9fg2pz5pwe never had that here to ban it, property rights began with land rights and we don't really have proper wilderness which is publicly owned. We also now have the highest population density in Europe so it is a very different dynamic to say Sweden.
@@RichardEnglanderyeah but thing is, it's all the forests and outdoor areas that are free to roam. So not just wilderness areas. But anyway, population and building density propably does play a role. And the history of it all as well 😄
The sad, and frustrating, thing is that almost everyone who goes into the wild leaves no trace, but relatively few "******ers" just don't give a rats a$$ and ruin it by leaving litter, abandoned equipment and organic waste 💩 If they can be made to stay at home, problem would be solved. Wishful thinking 😞
Here in Germany, we have not had such "aristocratic privileges" for centuries. Access to nature is regulated by nature conservation laws. Since we are a federal state, each federal government is responsible for local nature conservation laws and only in 3 federal states an old rule has been preserved: "overnight stay in nature for "non-motorized hikers" for 1 night". The old rule only applied to "hikers", but the modern interpretation also applies to cyclists and canoeists. But this rule has a restrictive addition: "if no other regulations speak against it". "Other rules" can be: nature conservation and private law. "Private law" is the simplest, because you can very often assume that it is public land. If you are lucky enough to meet a landowner (usually a farmer), you can ask. According to the saying "If you ask nicely, you get nice answers", I have always received approval in such cases - always with the obvious requirement to leave everything as you found it and not leave any rubbish lying around.
Crossing private property in nature (not in Settlements) is always allowed - as long as you behave properly.
"Nature conservation" is much more problematic, because the essence of modern German nature conservation is: people are locked out of nature! Completely idiotic: how are children supposed to learn to appreciate something that they are not allowed to experience?
Our Danish neighbors do it much better:
Sleeping overnight in nature is basically forbidden. Period.
Surprisingly, it was the Ministry of Nature Conservation itself that realized some years ago that this could not be a solution. Therefore, the department set up 400 official bivouac sites as a "test balloon." The project was such an immediate success that there are now well over 1100 bivouac sites in this small country, now also for paddlers along the beautiful Baltic Sea beaches and on the most beautiful rivers. The sites are equipped with everything from "nothing" (a post with the national coat of arms and you can pitch your tent within a radius of 10 m) to "luxury sites" with sanitary buildings with porcelain toilets and flush water and wooden shelters. Most sites have a fireplace with a grill and firewood is usually provided. You pay a very small fee for this service. There is usually someone in the neighborhood who comes by regularly, brings wood, collects garbage and collects the fee. However, many places are free. If you ever consider getting to know Denmark's beautiful and not at all boring nature, use this service, it's great!
(udinaturen.dk/map-page?scExtIds=1150,1303,6586_4-5®=2514,2517,6684,6685,6686&adScIds= )
You *still* have many more opportunities to be out and about in great nature in Great Britain than I do in Germany. Here, cultural landscapes dominate and we don't have anything like the "Lake District" or the Scottish Highlands, especially not so spread out across the country that you have short journeys, no matter where you live.
Yes, we have beautiful low mountain ranges in the lower middle of the country and the Alps and their foothills in the south. But as a northern German you have fewer options locally or you have to travel far.
In the low mountain ranges everything is taken over by commercial tourism, free overnight stays are prohibited, but there are at least campsites...
The Alps are now large nature reserves, bivouacking is prohibited there, but in many places the Alpine (protection) right to bivouacking (in emergencies) has been preserved. Off the tourist hiking trails and above a certain altitude you can "cheat" your way through.
Years ago in Norway I once was allowed to put up my tent next to a mountain hut (which is like a mountain hotel) - I couldn't afford to spend the night in the hut, Norway is *really* expensive. I don't remember whether I had to pay a small fee, but I was allowed to use the sanitary facilities.
Overall it is no longer nice outdoors in Germany and Austria... "Stealth camping" is the order of the day and you always have the feeling of being "caught".
The views up there are amazing 😍 some insist on ruining it for others. Leave no trace! As you have always said and done. 🙌💗
Love your vids Paul! They've inspired me to start wild camping. Leave no trace, respect the land and leave your camp site better than you found it. Simple rules. Keep up the good work mate.
Interesting video and information on the current debate.
Knew the story of the mass 'trespass' Its time we had the same freedoms in England as in Scotland, to roam freely in most areas. The mantra of most knowledge hikers, campers and lovers of TGO is you don't spoil what you love to enjoy!!!
Be considerate, be sensible and leave no trace.....
Unfortunately there will always be a minority who spoil things. It is up to us who want that freedom to roam to make sure things are seen to be respected. Time to allow us in England all access to most areas as in Scotland.
Always welcome up Bonnie Scotland 🏴 just leave it like u found it ❤ # that for any outdoor wild camper’s
For sure!✌...
Hi Paul, your videos now more than ever are getting me through my recovery as recently had a new knee joint replacement, so I am off the hills for a few months as I recover, but hopefully once I am back outdoors I can continue wild camping up on kinder and beyond!!
I'm so glad we don't have the same access and camping restrictions you guys have down there. I knew nothing about it until I started watching these videos on UA-cam, I just assumed the whole UK was the same as here in Scotland.
Hi Paul, great video. I do a lot of wild camping and also take the kids on the odd occasion, seeing people leave tents and litter really does my head in. They're not only ruining it for us, but my kids generation and there kids. The right to roam are hard fought, and easily lost. Please people, if you carry it up, take it back down.
Sorry for the rant😂, like I said great video. Take it easy👍
The last time I went up Kinder using the route you took, was in the early 80s. It's not changed much. I camped up there a few times in the 80s, can't say I ever gave a second thought to whether or not I should be there. At 78 I just wish I could do it now. But I can still watch some other silly bugger (sic) do it
Well done Paul another great wild camp. With some of the problems in trying to wild camp down south it really makes me appreciate living in Scotland.
In normal circumstances I would totally agree with you about the abandoned tent but I'll reserve my opinion because I don't know what exactly happened to the folks in the tent ie medical emergency etc. Like yourself I really get annoyed with people leaving a mess behind them.
Carry on with the good work bud 🤜🤛
Top tip Paul, take a chicken or a mushroom cup-a-soup with you, add extra water and mix into the carbonara, makes it much much nicer.
Looks like a flash camp is needed.
I'd travel down with a few red headed giants from the Highlands 🤣
I'm in 😂
It’s extraordinary to see the mess that is left behind by some people these days when “wild camping”! Whatever happened to: Take nothing but memories and photographs and leave nothing but footsteps! It’s changed so much. I can no longer reach the tops of the fells, my knees are “knackered” and I’m old, but even at lower levels you can find assorted detritus left. This varies from “portable barbecues” and containers right through to actual tents (which I can’t understand at all, our tents were precious to us and a significant investment!).
I've only just started to watch your wild camping videos Paul, and I really appreciate your natural and genuine approach. Nice pace to the vids and great 'wild' content. Look forward to catching you in a rain or snow storm soon. Bravo from Borneo 😊
The southern cross might as well be the Paul Messner signature tent. You inspired me to get one for myself and it’s every bit as good a you say.
Really good vid and camp. Magic, there's land out there. Fairly tough wind but temps keep the severity of the experience down. Don't like setting up in dark just for the reason you missed staking it all out. Land access, smaller and smaller all over the world. Ill prepared new campers I would think. Too much stuff to begin with. They may have had to leave eiither weather or some issue. Hear the story/facts first. Not good. Tear it down stake it out secure all the stuff best you can. Tell someone post a note on a board at the parking area with contact info. We are all in it together. All good from east Kentucky USA. Next time
Hi Paul, I must admit that I've never watched one of your videos before, but as hubby and I walked (or maybe ran, I can't remember 😂) past you with our dogs on Kinder Road, as you were coming off the hill in the morning, I thought I'd have a watch 😅 Anyway, I did enjoy it 😊
Chrissie
thanks for the watch paul! bright white tent as well.. have a feeling it will be enforced soon
Paul, all I can say mate is that am glad am north of the border, far easier laws to follow than those that you find in England and Wales. I noticed this when I did St Cuthberts Way from Lindisfarne to Melrose. I didnt realise that you have all these convoluted laws with terms like bridle paths and common land. We are truly blessed up here where by in large the assumption is you can access the land including inland waterways for un-motorised access including wild camping not exceeding 2 nights.
Great video. Love autumn as well. Flextail stuff is pretty 💪 that new pump is good and very quiet compared to earlier versions. I have the 3.0 in black 👌 wish the buttons were a bit easier in the dark though.
Great story, I enjoy the historical content as well as your camping content. Keep up the good work! If the landowners win it will be interesting to see how the court justifies it knowing it won't go over well!
Had idea for a video Mr Messner good sir. Interview some members of Mountain Rescue and maybe join them when training if you can. Very much enjoyed this one btw, excellent work.
I've done this route before and that hill was a slog! My flextail is very comfy. I got the larger pillow too from them and that's best I've used so far. The muggles definitely lugged that 11kg tent not expecting bad weather. I bet someone's dad's probably wondering where his tents gone.. No excuse tho.
The abandoned tent was bad but I've been walking the Peak District for many years and I've never seen such a thing before so it can't be common. Who knows what circumstances brought that about? Perhaps an emergency exit? I doubt many people would want to leave all that kit that they will have paid for.
As for the court case, it would make no sense to prevent camping while allowing access to walk. So, the logic follows that the banning of one could lead to attempts to ban the other later. We must keep our access rights. People are allowed access and camping in Scotland. It causes no problems there so how can it be a problem in England & Wales? Wild camping is hardly going to ever be a mass interest.
I walked from Hayfield up to Kinder Scout in 1948 with my grandmother, stopping for a Vimto on the way.
I recall she had a great fear of being caught by gamekeepers even then! We took the bus from Marple to get to Hayfield.
always good to see camping in windy or wet conditions after all its great britain
Great camp Paul nice one. I was in that small woodland last week you mentioned, a lot of trees cut down for firewood and fire scars dotted around which is a shame. Last week i rejoined the BMC to help with their fight with the right to roam. Be a good idea if everyone signed up to aid their effort. ATB and keep up the great vids
Nice to see you out camping again mate , as usual another great video. all the best.😎👍
Only 8% of land is roamable out there?! That's nuts 😮 imo it should be so that the areas that aren't anyone's yard or fields that are actively being for farming (planted with stuff etc) are free for hiking and camping. Following LNT of course! Hope the court case goes well for ya!
One of the few issues is that England is more densely populated than most other countries. The only way I can see wild camping surviving is if it is a grey area, and rather fringe activity. If it became too common, the issues and fallout from it would be impossible to ignore by legislators.
Enjoyed the video Paul! Well done for persevering in those conditions. That tent at the end! What was that all about? Unbelievable. Hope you’re well bud. Gav
I'm glad your talking about this issue. There are some UA-cam wild campers who claim not to understand the issues. I grateful the mass trespassers made the effort to understand.
We will never stop wild camping on dartmoor its our local area so dream on Mr darwin
Why does Dartmoor have different rules to the rest of England? Seems like one of those confusing facts the media (like this) wants to spread.
here in West Aus you can acquire a miners right for $30 bucks, its handy when I'm real far from the city and I want a real isolated place. I just keep some gold panning stuff in the car, then I'm suddenly a "prospector" and can camp on crown land
Thanks, Paul. Great video.
I have heard of this and wainright hiking the fells in the peak district, he wrote many guide books or his travels, not forgetting the lake district.
They were pioneers of their time.
Thanks Paul. Your camping and history lesson. Was great. Cheers 🍻 mate.
Here in Norway the right to roam and camp (with some restrictions) is written in law. A common problem in the media is honeypot sites. In this I include whole areas which are popular not just with locals but with tourists from all over europe, not uncommonly driving a motorhome/camper. If you fill up the larder at home, don't pay to camp and still need facilties like "free" toilets (paid for by somebody) and refuse collection you're arguably not the ideal tourist for the local area. (Of course the "worst" problem is when guests don't use proper toilets and rubbish disposal facilities. 🤢😡).
they say wild camping is illegal in the UK yet there's been 2 tents on a green just down from our house for the last month. nobody from the council have been round to move them on 😂
It's my favourite way to get onto kinder from hayfield .What a shame that idiots leave a mess. a great video, thanks x
Hi Paul I've discovered the small green folding table you sometimes use. Towesure Malin bridge £7 cheers Paul it's awesome 👍👍
Wonderfully informative video. Praises to those 6 fellows who paved the way for the current day Right-To-Roam Laws. Their taking a mighty stand for accessibility to open lands was monumental. I hope 🙏 your current day laws are not going to be restricted by the present day's Supreme Court -- that would be such an affront to all Adventurers and Wild Campers.
I love that woods on the river kinder. It's great to stay with the grand kids 15 months and 3 yrs. And that hill up from by the camp site is a killer 😂
You've taken your 15mth grandkid on a wild camp ?
@kevinparsons8119 yep from Hayfield to kinder River woods over night
No, they went to prison so that you can walk there! You still ain't allowed to camp in most places including the Peak district. I didn't think that the current Dartmoor case had any implications for walking access, only to the fact that wild camping is currently legal on parts of Dartmoor.
The abandoned tent is disgusting. The logo is Showforce which is a company that provides crew for events. Anyone that feels strongly about this should complain to the company.
I did a circuit of the edges last weekend and that tent was there then. It was a pretty wild Saturday night and I was somewhat sheltered on the other side, but we had hail, thunder and freezing temps(puddles were iced over and exposed edge of tent was frozen).
You really should try hiking over in the US sometime. I've watched a lot of your videos, and we have something over here that you might enjoy. I'm not sure you would have heard of it, but we like to call it "clear skies" . In the day the sky often looks blue! And at night we have these things called stars! I know the gray clouds are pretty, but you might like the change. :)
We have quite a few dark parks in the UK where artificial lighting is at a minimum. I've seen the northern lights and the milky way barely an hours drive from my house
I get the tone but we have plenty here too, you just have to choose the days which are much more frequent than you would think. I was in the Lake District this week and between the cloudy days we had brilliant sunshine and clear skies, even in October
If you’re getting burger pics while you’re out camping, I think it would be a really funny video if you did a fine dining camp. 😂
Take one of those small camping tables that snap together. Take a white table cloth, a nice white plate, knife and fork. Napkin, candle with holder, etc. You could even do a roll (to prevent wrinkles) on a button down and sports jacket.
Cook yourself some sauteed green beans, roast potato’s, and steak.
It would be a funny video and you can have a good picture to reply with.🤣
Paul. as large as the USA is, there are not too many places on the eastern side that you can just wander off into and pitch camp. I am in Ohio and the nearest place i can sort of WILD camp is in the south east national forest area. 120 miles from where I live. its much easier out west in the desert to wild camp. But thats 2000 miles away from me.
The selfish cretins are destroying wild camping for those who care about nature and the country side. I’ve wild camped for 30 years and never come into conflict with any land owner. I was on Kinder a couple of weeks ago after a break of 3 years due to a back injury, the place is a shit hole now, I couldn’t believe its decline.
I true wild camper is never seen and leaves no trace.
I'd love to wildcamp like that here in Switzerland somewhere in the hills! There's plenty of space, but we have to travel and hike far before we get above tree line, where it is allowed.
Best wishes with your raffle old chap😊🎉
Hi Paul, I really wish you could find your way to the U.S. We have endless backpacking. May know of the AT, PCT and the CDT but the truth is there are endless backpacking trails all over the U.S. What is happening in the UK is just wrong. I wish you well.
Squaring up to the elements,mother nature's elements ❤
Hi Paul. I'm looking at a 4 season tent and have been looking at the SC2. I absolutely love my Helm 2 compact. It's great value for money, spacious and does everything I need it to do. It is however only a 3 season tent. My question is how does the SC2 compare to the Helm2 as visually they look similar. Could you maybe do a comparison video with both tents next to each other?
Great content as usual.
I was up at the Wool Packs in similar claggy conditions 3 weeks back and I woke up to dozens and dozens of used toilet tissue flying around. It made my heart sink as I try and bring as much 'others people's litter' as I can off Kinder, but I had to draw a line at chasing their poop on an empty stomach.
I had a great night's kip on my flextail.
The odd abandoned tent is nothing compared with the horrors committed by landowners over the decades. Whole villages no longer exist because they interfered with somebody's view. Even today rights of way are blocked , walkers are regularly intimidated and threatened. If you 'own' large tracts of countryside you can't treat it like its your back garden. If no harm is being committed then YOU have nothing to answer for, and that includes the stupid actions of others.
The members of the public in general, including ramblers, are bad enough.
That tent that was left is a joke. I bet they're not coming back for it either. I call them idiots but with slightly naughtier language. Really gets to me this stuff. I am teaching my daughter about wild camping and going on adventures and she is always saying let's put up this rubbish daddy. So we always have an extra rubbish bag in the day sack when we are out.
Good point about the 8%. Ironically all tax payers subsidise landowners through government grants. Perhaps in future government grants which are funded by us should include access rights for those that are funding landowners income?!
That abandoned tent is a 200 quid tent ! Also it had a "Showforce" label or sticker on it which might be a clue as to who was using it ?
When you think of the pack size of the abandoned tent and the chair, why would anyone want to carry something that big over any sort of distance? If it was me? I would just want to pitch that tent at the back of my car.
This was enlightening
In the supreme court, I suspect the court will find in Mr Alexander Darwall's favour.
I suspect they will outline Mr Darwalls land with an exclusion zone, leaving access to other parts outside of that exclusion zone which may be camped upon at the land owners discretion.
Terra Nova really need to sort out how flappy their inners are.
Watching from outside the UK.. Looks like anyone can enter the country by boat. But locals will be barred from wild camping. Bit hard to understand
That would be because if you’re claiming asylum then it’s legal to enter a country however you choose, but it’s not legal to wild camp. Claiming asylum is covered by international law, wild camping isn’t. Wonder how many other human rights we would lose if it was all within the remit of our governments. Anyway, hope that’s filled a gap in your knowledge up.
@@Howling-Mad-Murdocknot quite, people seeking Asylum are supposed to go to the first safe country, not get to France and then pay to be transported to the UK. We are an Island, we have Ltd room, we can’t take in everyone.
@@cloverite You’re wrong about having to go to the first country. The UN refugee charter does not say that and UK case law backs this up. We don’t take in everyone, far from it.
@@Howling-Mad-Murdockyour wrong, refugees are allowed to enter, but the ones coming here by boat are illegal, and they've passed through a safe country.
Hi Paul
Great vid , thank you 🙏
What tent is that ?
Cheers
Love the work, Paul!
More room Paul but rattled more the Vango great video
At least that’s one thing (and there’s bloody few) that the US got right. Federal forest land and BLM public land you can wander and camp anywhere you wish, unless it is specifically marked off. Reasons it will be off limits make sense such as seasonal habitats, sensitive areas, or rehabilitation of an area. I was recently in Acadia National Park in Maine and a couple trails were closed temporarily due to nesting peregrine falcons. Totally understandable. I don’t think you can wild camp in all national parks here, but you can in the huge national forests. It’s a bit confusing sometimes as we have national parks, monuments, forests, and reserves. Then you get into Bureau of Land Management land and state parks. Bottom line is we have a lot of opportunities but just have to learn the rules.
Cracking video Paul!
Would be great to hear your opinion on gps watches. Apple vs Garmin… 👌
I love this walk! It was my first hike up Kinder a few years back. William Clough is so beautiful! Never wild camped myself, but I will fight for the right to do it! I think the Darwalls will lose this one one and it will re-cement the right to roam laws. It was one of those special walks for me knowing the history behind it before I went.
Nothing like getting up in the morning, walking a couple of metres and thinking, "I should have pitched here".😉🤣🤣
Although careless campers do have the capacity to ruin it for us all, I find that, speaking to Rangers, they're happy to distinguish between the types of camper they have to worry about and us.
So hopefully, even if tougher restrictions do come in, we'll still get away with pitching up late, leaving early, leaving no trace and generally being respectful.🤞🤞
Cant understand folk abandoning all their gear... found a Bobcat near Glencoe last weekend...been there a while, but still in good nick...name and number on sleeping mat, so text it and lady said her stuff had been stolen... but i was welcome to it... dont think so, judging by how thin her sleeping bag was... reckon she got cold and decided wild camping not for her! 😂
Hi Paul. Like your videos. If wild camping is outlawed move to the States. More camping than you can shake a stick at.
😊’1930s jetboil’😅that made me laugh 😂
Thank You Benny Rothman
I suddenly fancy "a bag of slop"!!!!
I didn't think anyone could wild camp in England. But if nobody polices it you can do it all over the place. How long you do it for depends on the busy bodies.
Problem is we all fall victim to the dirty deeds of idiots causing everyone else to be put in the same box. We love the outdoors, we leave no trace, tidy up and carry trash out instead of leaving anything behind. We do it hundreds of times and one day a group of bloody pagans ruin it for everyone. Sometimes I believe they do it purpose, just because they can. Sorry for any misspelling , got me phone on charge ( causes funny typing )and English isn’t my first language. Cheers
I do not eat in my tent or within 100 feet of it.
Due to regional bears, mainly, and cougar.
I hare used bear pepper spray for defense..
😆😆😆 In Britain there are no large predators other than humans.
fantastic video mate
I see a meetup opportunity to get all that junk off the mountain. If I wasn’t on the other side of an ocean I’d definitely be in.
45:15 the C word seems apt
Noticed the biolite lamp, any good? looks nice but seems expensive. or maybe I'm just cheap. 😁
Abandoned tent 😡 this is the type of thing that will ruin camping for everyone as will be used by landowners to argue against it.
Another confirmation of the words: "Freedom is not free."
Great video loved the history ,wealthy land owners make me sick
Surprised you don’t clean your pegs before putting them in the bag! A few seconds with some grass and moss and they come up like new,then no cleaning when I get home!!😅
Time for a Clean Up Kinder campaign
It's a pity you had to leave that tent there. You are but one man though. It would have been my inclination to stake it out correctly and seal it up, (they didn't even use all the lines ffs) and then maybe head back up with a mate the next day with empty packs and clear it out.
Otherwise, thank you for another great video.
Hi Paul, Great video, is the tent the Southern cross 1 or Southern Cross 2
Sad that in many countries around the world, the majority of land, be it quality or not, is controlled by a scant few. Just because hundreds or a thousand years ago, a man and his cohorts with sword, took mastery of the lands by threat of death, and claimed themselves lords, kings and chiefs, their decendants maintain that ownership. Most people can barely maintain the plot of land that their home sits on, it's baffling that millions of acres are owned just to be owned by a single person. Not being stewards of the land, just to say it is theirs and go away.