Be me, EOKA gunsmith, trying to make a concealable sub gun, I'm told i have plenty of time. Take the magazine, cut it down, file it back, adjust spring and floor plate perfectly. This takes a whole month. Comrade comes in, says he needs the gun, have only just finished the magazine. Use table saw and bren gun handle to make it functional. Tell him to bring it back after so i can make it perfect like magazine. Never see him or gun again. Years pass, on UA-cam i see my gun, so happy. Gun jesus say "whoever cut down the magazine is certainly not the same person who cut down the stock. Gives me the big sad.
A month? For that magazine? Geez louise, thats maybe a one afternoon job, and thats if you fool around with it. I am no gunsmith or a smith even. Hell, i pack frozen pizzas for a living. But i know my way with tools and i like making stuff. Given the right tools and a competent gunsmith, this is a half an hour job
It was shown and they talked a bit about it when he met with some british arms museum people a while back. Not sure the video, but its about improvised firearms.
@@paschalisiordanous4937 one of the many organizations that f*cked up cyprus. Talking about eoka B. Keep living in a world, where those traitors with their stupid coup that ruined the country are heroes.
How much do you despite the Italian occupation forces? well I took the only piece of useful equipment they have and I mutilated it, I don't even want to kill anybody, I just want to piss them off.
It makes me sad to see a ww2 beretta done dirty like that. But in terms of the how they wanted it to serve for a particular purpose. It does seem like a tolerable alteration.
EOKA, acronym for Ethniki Organosis Kyprion Agoniston, was a Greek Cypriot nationalist guerrilla organisation that fought a campaign for the end of British colonialism rule in Cyprus, for the island's self-determination and for eventual union with Greece. It was supported by the civilians of the island of Cyprus because Britain since 1878 ruled with an authoritarian regime. Cyprus was the key position in the Mediterranean Sea with huge military and economic significance and British governors ruled with an iron fist, imprisoning and executing even high school students whom the authorities considered dangerous. EOKA was never a terrorist group.
Yeah, they fought against british rule in their own country. I'm sure Ian just didn't look into it too much or maybe didn't have time to do so. Regardless, great video.
@@iliaskarampinas5317 It should be noted that he found this in a British museum, and they certainly were a terrorist organization from the British perspective. Rebels are always terrorists in the eyes of those they are rebelling against.
I really like these "third party customs." I would like to see this kustum alongside the standard Beretta and standard Bren, that way we have a reference for what was koostoom'd.
Speaking of Greek guns, I would love to see you get your hands on that EPK/Pyrkal LMG/proto-assault rifle (if you can get your hands on one of the few prototypes in existence)
@@palaiologos4441 Δεν υπάρχει κανένα. Μία πηγή αναφέρει ότι η ΠΥΡΚΑΛ είχε δωρίσει 1 πρωτότυπο τουφέκι στον Βασιλιά, αλλά δεν είναι σίγουρο. Τα υπόλοιπα πρωτότυπα καταστράφηκαν από τους Γερμανούς μαζί με το εργοστάσιο.
Interesting piece, very recognisable bren handle. I have a friend that served with the Coldstreams in 1950s Cyprus, I shall ask him if he saw any of these.
At 1:50 the magazine is clearly marked as holding 10 rounds. I doubt that an artisan with a hacksaw would go to the trouble of marking it thusly. My opinion is that it is indeed a factory magazine. Great video, Ian! Thanks!
Could just be a witness hole that would have continued at regular intervals? I'm not familiar with witness holes for this gun's magazines, but someone else might know
Very interesting. Just a little note : In Italian, the CH group is always pronounced like a K (unless it's a French-derived surname) . The SH sound (as in Ship) is produced with the SCI/SCE groups. The way you pronounced Moschetto sounded like Moscetto, which is funny because it could roughly be translated as "Softy".
I’m Italian and can easily see how English speaking people would pronounce it according to their grammatical rules. No big deal, we know what they are saying. Have you heard how we butcher their language? Stop it already.
@@Nellis202 Being a bilingual language teacher, I'm fairly cognizant of exactly how badly Italian natives butcher English pronunciation. And mine wasn't a sterile critique, I merely sought to clarify an aspect of Italian pron that I know for a fact is very confusing for foreigners. So no, I'm definitely not going to stop.
I stayed at St George's Gardens just north of Paphos this summer and they've got a good EOKA museum right on the beach. It's got a Bren, Sten and Enfield that were clandestinely landed on a nearby spot. By chance I had a hospital appointment the day before I went and spoke to a man who did his national service in the REME on Cyprus when all this was going on.
Cyprus is a museum of it's own. I can't believe people go there just to go to the beach when the island has so much to offer. I did manage to see all the EOKA sights and museums, Green Line, The North part of the Island, Famagusta and so on. Wonderful island!
www.academia.edu/36885742/EOKA_s_Arms_Types_and_Origin you can download here (in Greek) a complete issue on the EOKA small arms as it was published by me and Andreas Karyos for "Xroniko", a weekly historical magazine in Cyprus. We gonna publish soon a book on EOKA arsenal in both Greek and English. This Beretta SMG is a Greek capture from the Greek-Italian war that made it to Cyprus during the Enosis struggle.
@@ForgottenWeapons oh look..you can reply to this but not the many comments of those offended NY your disgusting insult to the brave volunteers who fought against British terrorism.
I really like these sorts of videos. The craft made firearms with interesting stories are the best. You videos in the Chinese mystery pistols inspired me and I actually found an example of one. Now it is one of the coolest things in my collection.
There is nothing I like more than seeing backyard wins and failures. Would certainly enjoy more homebuilds or modified stuff, as a warning to those who would travel this risky path, if not for the entertainment value. Thanks for this one!
This old Norwegian dude told me about how he was a radio operator in WW2 and he said they had a machine gun that could chamber the Germans Mauser ammunition (not sure what caliber) to shoot it back at them. If you see this I'd like to know. It interests me greatly those times. That was a different kind of fight.
In Cyprus these young guerrillas are heroes not terrorists to us who fought for our freedom and for my country's independence and eventually won the war over British rule and Cyprus became an internationally recognised democratic nation
Idiots keep confusing EOKA with EOKA B and go about spouting nonsense. If they don't anything on the subject, they should either do some research, or keep quiet.
To all Greeks (including Cypriots)... Ian is a guest at a british museum, a museum that surely has many exhibits that he would like to get the access to and make videos. Offcourse he is going to use the terminology of the british for EOKA. This is not an ommision, we are talking about a guy that painstakingly tries to uncover the origins of missmatched gun parts, prototypes or the life story of their creators. He made a deliberate choice here because lets face it, what percentage of his audience is going to take offence 0,5% ? On the other hand if he uses the right terminology and practically insult his hosts, he is going to lose his access to material that could make alot more videos and promote his work. So do I like it? No. Do I understand it? Yes. Would I do the same in his place? Probably.
His job is anyway to talk about guns, not to clarify the terminology. We all are for a free Cyprus, and against the "Empire", but it´s not Ian´s job to judge that, so, he may as well stick with the teminology he was given. And the British will call, sooner or later, every single of their subjects a "terrorist", always, so, simply don´t take them too serious...
@@klausbrinck2137 Plus, lets be real, as much respect as we normally have for Guerilla groups, almost everyone of them will have some bad history to them. Poland had a partisant group, lead by a guy who burnt down houses in Podlasie, for example, EOKA may have been for a free Cyprus, or just a Cyprus without the Britsh there, but there were probably other groups who wanted a fully free Cyprus, but not one united with Greece, as EOKA wanted.
Another interesting and informative video by Ian. Certainly the best and the brightest of all the UA-cam firearms channels. He clearly has an excellent working relationship with the Royal Armouries Museum, here in the United Kingdom. It's free to visit and an excellent day out, it's just a shame that certain pieces of the collection, like this, aren't viewable by the general public. As a Brit, I still find it slightly amusing and strange, that we are subjected to some very ill-conceived and misjudged firearms laws, and yet we are custodians of one of the most interesting and unique firearms collections in the world...
10 round magazines were factory made for the Beretta 38 before and during WWII. From what I've read both the Axis and Allies used Beretta 38s with 10 round mags to guard prisoners of war.
The scenario that makes the most sense is to carry one short magazine in the gun for concealability and a standard capacity magazine separately. Easy setup could be to sling the gun under a jacket and tuck one or two magazines into one's belt on the opposite side.
Betetta facrory mag capacities were 10, 20, 30, and 40. 30 and 40 mags were the same length, with an internal block like the factory 5rd. Ar-15 mag. Also, a stamped receiver model 38a was also made after the war.
My dads grandpas brother (or something like that) lol is George Grivas the leader of EOKA.. the spelling was changed to Grevas cause people were pronouncing it wrong but pretty crazy to see u cover one of their guns.. I have George’s original copy autobiography book he signed at the house. Don’t mean much in America but I love heard in Greece and Cyprus he is still greatly respected My MMA nickname is Vanilla “GueRRiLLa” in honor to the legacy to the GueRRiLLa Warfare tactics by EOKA I’m sure nobody cares just thought I would share, crazy to come across this
A Cypriot Whippit? (Whippit was what John Dillinger called his cut down BAR he slung under his arm for robberies, because he could just "Whippit" out from under his jacket.)
@RocketSurgeon Yes, but in .380. (Okay, back in the day, that was called something like .38 caliber ACP. Or 9mm Kurtz in German.) They were Browning 1911 style autos, but they weren't in .45.
according to a quick wiki search, EOKA wanted Cyprus to be reunited with Greece and started legitimately fighting for that around 1955. The Brits formally controlled Cyprus from 1914 up until 1960, so 1955-60 is your time frame of when this gun was captured.
PLEASE REPHRASE , AS GREEK I CAN ASURE YOU THEY WERE FIGHTING FOR THE LIBERATION OF CYPRUS IN 1955. TENS OF THEM WERE HUNGED BY BRITTS , EVEN TEENAGER GREEKS.
The 9mm 10 round double feed mag looks a little similar to the 9mm double feed mag used in the Trench Carbine prototypes. Did the mag design survive though the decades and made it to beretta?
That would've been a really cool early PDW idea. Maybe stick a pistol grip on it from some other surplus gun and the Italians could've had themselves their own super spy trenchcoat machine gun like everyone else was going for for damn near free.
interesting. if we are into fantasy guns .......... start with the design and function of keltek frb, then turn it upside down and drop the caliber to fn5.7 and use p90 magazines, move the trigger forwards more like tkb-22pm and the rear stock so it sits on your shoulder a little like an rpg. shoulder sling that and you have an effective one hand weapon for very confined spaces like indoors where you need one hand free for opening doors and the ability to turn around in confined walkways without losing sight picture
Very cool Ian, your a lucky dude to get to hang out there and check out their stash. I bet they have a bunch of cool guns you cant find anywhere else. Maybe do some videos on the L-85 family, I have heard of some pretty cool DMR/Sniper type variants (if you have already done vids on them let me know and ill hunt em down). Love the channel bro keep doing your thing.
Interesting, but this also brings to mind a question that would be really interesting to see a video answer/analysis/comparison for us less than expert viewers. What are the specific reasons ww2 smg's (this, MP-40, Sten, etc.) have such a long receiver (magazine very far forward) compared to post-1960's (MP-5, M12, etc)? What technological or fundamental design change brought about the seeming dramatic shortening in the designs?
I know _very_ little about firearms, but (from what I gather from Ian's videos) a fundamental design change was using a "telescoping bolt", as popularised by the very successful and often imitated Uzi design. That's regarding open-bolt designs. Also, more advanced (and expensive) SMGs that fire from a locked breach, like the MP5, can get away with less massive bolts. Finally, and that's just my speculation, there was a strong push for shorter assault rifles (with all those bullpups in the '70s) that might have pushed SMG designers to try and shorten their guns. After all, why carry an SMG if it's almost the same size as the main military firearm?
Jason Doe ,the Uzi line of submachine guns were partly inspired by the Czech Sa 23 line of submachine guns. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa_vz._23 Your general premises are correct; the change in size of post WWII machine guns was largely driven by the *commercial* success of things like the Uzi in addition to new understanding and application of manufacturing technologies ( i.e. locked breech in the MP5 ). 1930's and WWII submachine guns were generally longer mostly due to needing the space for a big enough heavy bolt and strong enough recoil spring(s) to reliably work in the open bolt actions those weapons most often used.
Ian, your next book should be about improvised and home-built firearms. I'm sure you can find the guy who used to do the regular articles about them in Small Arms Review (Jean Huon?) and do a collaboration with him.
ΕΟΚΑ teems was actually operating like " military units " and had their own gunsmiths and armorers and they were quite capable of making one of weapons especially little sub machine guns like this one 😉 after all many was veterans of the Greek and the British armed forces
Browses collection, “oh, that’s interesting”. Curator “we acquired that after it was used to murder a nursery full of handicapped infants”. “This misplaced charging handle is an interesting aftermarket adaptation that the original designer might appreciate.”
Cyprus has been owned and been ruled by Phoenicians, Assyrians, Egyptians, Persians, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Richard the Lionheart, Templars, Crusaders, Venetians, Ottomans and British colonialists. Greece hasn't owned Cyprus for around 1500 years. Even then it was Alexander the Great who was a Macedonian.
Its not a terrorist group , british didnt let em to accomplish the idea of "ενωσης" to unite with their motherland greece and set the island free , so the greek cypriots made this group to make a non stop guerilla warfare
I don't really know if it is correct to call EOKA for a terrorist group? It was founded as a underground guerilla group which struggled for "liberating" Cyprus from the British colonial rule and Enossis with Greece. However it took a rather violent expression.
As long as they use terrorist means to promote their views, they can be called terrorists. From the this point of view any violent resistance group can be called terrorist or bandit movement, including WWII resistance movements.
@@TorianTammas Yes, if we accept the cyprian nationalist narrative, we can call british occupation forces "oppressors". Though some people tend to view colonial regimes as progressive and good, but such people are mostly weirdos or just come from ex-metropoles. I don't know that much about british regulations imposed on the population of Cyprus and I would be glad if anyone would advise me on some good books about Cyprus independence struggle.
...how it ended up in England is an easy question to answer, if it is indeed an EOKA weapon, the Brits had/have a heavy presence in Cyprus sine the Cypriot War...this was probably confiscated there in the early 70s...
@@seanmacuaiteir437 If they have no record of its history it could have been acquired by the British anytime after EOKA came into existence and not just during the initial fighting - they were still finding weapons and mu itions from the early campaign after partition (some acquired from individuals by troops under UN command)
Probably it was used by Italian troops during the occupuation of Greece and later lost/abandoned/steal by some Greek which later sold it or give it to a Cypriotan.
EOKA was a Liberation group and Grivas is admired as a liberator and revolutionary both in Greece and Cyprus. Funny how the brits call every group that opposes their imperialistic tendencies a "terrorist" group
EOKA wasn't a terrorist group.. Was fighters for freedom of Cyprus from England and they want union with mother Greece. EOKA B was the next generation of EOKA and fight against Turkish invasion in 1974 Sorry about my English. Greetings from Greece
EOKA B was from 1970 untill 1974. EOKA B claimed to fight for Enosis, and used the name of EOKA. But very few of the ex EOKA members followed and entered this new organization. And mainly, this time they didnt have the support of almost all the people, just a few. In 15 July 1974 the Greek junta made a coup against president Makarios. Then EOKA B supported this coup. But turkey thought that the coup was a good excuse to present, and invaded Kypros (Chypre, Zypern). So, in effect, the activity of EOKA B created a climate that made the coup possible. And so they gave an excuse to turkey. That is the reason why EOKA B is severely condemned by all the people. Tragically, some people of patriotic feelings havent discovered yet the immense catastrophe caused by EOKA B. Some people present EOKA and EOKA B as the same, -- Some people do this because they want to present EOKA as a terrorist organization, similarly as it was EOKA B. -- Some other people also present EOKA and EOKA B as the same, because they want to present EOKA B as a liberation movenment, similarly as it was EOKA. Both of these are wrong. So, EOKA B was before the invasion. They didnt fight the invasion. In fact, there are testimonies that EOKA B weren't at the defence positions to fight the turks, but were at the mountain, feasting with souvla, and keeping their much needed weapons away from the defence posts.
EOKA during 1955-59 had been considered a terrorist organization for Great Britain, but not for the Greek Cypriots. Greeks on the island considered EOKA as a liberating force, a force that would bring the most wanted independence on the island after hundreds of years. 40000 Greek Cypriot volunteers in WW 2 under the Allied flags were not considered enough for Britain to let them form an independent state. EOKA attacked only military or police targets, communication and radio stations. In some cases, they attacked airfields causing irreparable damage to military aircraft.
@@Redpilled_Retribution not Shilling against Cyprus, just someone who doesn't like to see history rewritten because constant repetition of their mantra overwrites the truth.
Be me, EOKA gunsmith, trying to make a concealable sub gun, I'm told i have plenty of time. Take the magazine, cut it down, file it back, adjust spring and floor plate perfectly. This takes a whole month. Comrade comes in, says he needs the gun, have only just finished the magazine. Use table saw and bren gun handle to make it functional. Tell him to bring it back after so i can make it perfect like magazine. Never see him or gun again. Years pass, on UA-cam i see my gun, so happy. Gun jesus say "whoever cut down the magazine is certainly not the same person who cut down the stock. Gives me the big sad.
Gentleman's Combatives sweet bro....... Nice big nice
This is like something out of a book
no wonder why the serial number is intact as i recently commented separately
You did a good job. Don't be sad.
A month? For that magazine? Geez louise, thats maybe a one afternoon job, and thats if you fool around with it.
I am no gunsmith or a smith even. Hell, i pack frozen pizzas for a living. But i know my way with tools and i like making stuff. Given the right tools and a competent gunsmith, this is a half an hour job
"Should I open my flute scabbard?"
Security guy: "Nah don't bother. Couldn't be much trouble in there."
Funny Farmer lol nice
EOKA Pistol When?
... Don't mind the boys clanging rocks against metal behind you, Ian.
He already reviewed it
It was shown and they talked a bit about it when he met with some british arms museum people a while back. Not sure the video, but its about improvised firearms.
MP5 > GayK
Change my mind.
@@simon123222 ua-cam.com/video/0TMrunbZLJw/v-deo.html
Its amazing that you could show this to someone and tell them it still isnt the most crude gun associated with EOKA
Sorry wrong comment
I had to look up EOKA. Did not know what it was. I learned some new history today.
EOKA's a rather complicated piece of history. What did you find out?
EOKA B CYPRUS GREECE FOREVER
@@paschalisiordanous4937 one of the many organizations that f*cked up cyprus. Talking about eoka B. Keep living in a world, where those traitors with their stupid coup that ruined the country are heroes.
@@antreasgeorgiou1411 Why traitors and why they ruined the country?
@@antreasgeorgiou1411 Προδότες είναι ο Μακάριος - Μούσκος και τα σκυλιά του ΑΚΕΛ.
Look how they massacred my boy!
Godfather
Great reference dude.
@@MrNacho453 he got it perfectly
How much do you despite the Italian occupation forces? well I took the only piece of useful equipment they have and I mutilated it, I don't even want to kill anybody, I just want to piss them off.
It makes me sad to see a ww2 beretta done dirty like that. But in terms of the how they wanted it to serve for a particular purpose. It does seem like a tolerable alteration.
EOKA, acronym for Ethniki Organosis Kyprion Agoniston, was a Greek Cypriot nationalist guerrilla organisation that fought a campaign for the end of British colonialism rule in Cyprus, for the island's self-determination and for eventual union with Greece. It was supported by the civilians of the island of Cyprus because Britain since 1878 ruled with an authoritarian regime. Cyprus was the key position in the Mediterranean Sea with huge military and economic significance and British governors ruled with an iron fist, imprisoning and executing even high school students whom the authorities considered dangerous. EOKA was never a terrorist group.
except for what they tried and failed to do to the turks, I take it?
@@xexecuterxxthat wasn't eoka
The British really sold out poor Cyprus.
Amazing videos, just to clarify at 0:40 that EOKA was NOT a terrorist group.
Yeah, they fought against british rule in their own country. I'm sure Ian just didn't look into it too much or maybe didn't have time to do so. Regardless, great video.
@@iliaskarampinas5317 It should be noted that he found this in a British museum, and they certainly were a terrorist organization from the British perspective. Rebels are always terrorists in the eyes of those they are rebelling against.
He was filming this in Britain so he probably had to say they were or go to prison for 2 years for "hate speech"
EOKA were based!
Eoka killed many turkish cyproits so they are terrorists
I really like these "third party customs." I would like to see this kustum alongside the standard Beretta and standard Bren, that way we have a reference for what was koostoom'd.
The royal armories is a wonderful museum, well worth a visit.
Speaking of Greek guns, I would love to see you get your hands on that EPK/Pyrkal LMG/proto-assault rifle
(if you can get your hands on one of the few prototypes in existence)
Υπάρχει κανένα σε μουσείο;
Νομίζω (Ελπίζω)-Ποιο μουσείο;
@@palaiologos4441 Δεν υπάρχει κανένα. Μία πηγή αναφέρει ότι η ΠΥΡΚΑΛ είχε δωρίσει 1 πρωτότυπο τουφέκι στον Βασιλιά, αλλά δεν είναι σίγουρο. Τα υπόλοιπα πρωτότυπα καταστράφηκαν από τους Γερμανούς μαζί με το εργοστάσιο.
@@stth826 σχέδια υπάρχουν;
Interesting piece, very recognisable bren handle. I have a friend that served with the Coldstreams in 1950s Cyprus, I shall ask him if he saw any of these.
Might not like what you hear, those were dark times m8
@@SilenTHerO78614 I know sadly. That's life.
Let's see more of these home made modified guns from the collection. This was great!
At 1:50 the magazine is clearly marked as holding 10 rounds. I doubt that an artisan with a hacksaw would go to the trouble of marking it thusly. My opinion is that it is indeed a factory magazine. Great video, Ian! Thanks!
Good bit of spotting!
Could just be a witness hole that would have continued at regular intervals? I'm not familiar with witness holes for this gun's magazines, but someone else might know
Very interesting. Just a little note : In Italian, the CH group is always pronounced like a K (unless it's a French-derived surname) . The SH sound (as in Ship) is produced with the SCI/SCE groups. The way you pronounced Moschetto sounded like Moscetto, which is funny because it could roughly be translated as "Softy".
Sounds even more ambiguos, as 'moscio' is usely associated to a particular appendage ...
I’m Italian and can easily see how English speaking people would pronounce it according to their grammatical rules. No big deal, we know what they are saying.
Have you heard how we butcher their language?
Stop it already.
@@Nellis202 Being a bilingual language teacher, I'm fairly cognizant of exactly how badly Italian natives butcher English pronunciation. And mine wasn't a sterile critique, I merely sought to clarify an aspect of Italian pron that I know for a fact is very confusing for foreigners. So no, I'm definitely not going to stop.
I stayed at St George's Gardens just north of Paphos this summer and they've got a good EOKA museum right on the beach. It's got a Bren, Sten and Enfield that were clandestinely landed on a nearby spot.
By chance I had a hospital appointment the day before I went and spoke to a man who did his national service in the REME on Cyprus when all this was going on.
Cyprus is a museum of it's own. I can't believe people go there just to go to the beach when the island has so much to offer. I did manage to see all the EOKA sights and museums, Green Line, The North part of the Island, Famagusta and so on. Wonderful island!
Now you need to somehow get your hands on the homemade Chechen "Borz" submachine guns!
That’s actually a pretty cool gun! It reminds me of a gun that I would see in a “Mad Max” movie!!
Hello from Greece!!!
Interesting video...
www.academia.edu/36885742/EOKA_s_Arms_Types_and_Origin you can download here (in Greek) a complete issue on the EOKA small arms as it was published by me and Andreas Karyos for "Xroniko", a weekly historical magazine in Cyprus. We gonna publish soon a book on EOKA arsenal in both Greek and English. This Beretta SMG is a Greek capture from the Greek-Italian war that made it to Cyprus during the Enosis struggle.
Please let me know when the book is published (admin@forgottenweapons.com)! I would like to review it for the channel.
@@ForgottenWeapons oh look..you can reply to this but not the many comments of those offended NY your disgusting insult to the brave volunteers who fought against British terrorism.
Good to see there’s bubbas all over the world
That’s a bad thing
That carrying handle, as a front grip just makes so much sense.
I really like these sorts of videos. The craft made firearms with interesting stories are the best. You videos in the Chinese mystery pistols inspired me and I actually found an example of one. Now it is one of the coolest things in my collection.
There is nothing I like more than seeing backyard wins and failures. Would certainly enjoy more homebuilds or modified stuff, as a warning to those who would travel this risky path, if not for the entertainment value. Thanks for this one!
This old Norwegian dude told me about how he was a radio operator in WW2 and he said they had a machine gun that could chamber the Germans Mauser ammunition (not sure what caliber) to shoot it back at them. If you see this I'd like to know. It interests me greatly those times. That was a different kind of fight.
Late merry Christmas to everybody
And a happy 2004-2005 New Year!
thank you for showing this weapon systems. Thank you Royal Armouries Leeds for having Ian and Letting this Gun Been shown.
In Cyprus these young guerrillas are heroes not terrorists to us who fought for our freedom and for my country's independence and eventually won the war over British rule and Cyprus became an internationally recognised democratic nation
Idiots keep confusing EOKA with EOKA B and go about spouting nonsense. If they don't anything on the subject, they should either do some research, or keep quiet.
To all Greeks (including Cypriots)... Ian is a guest at a british museum, a museum that surely has many exhibits that he would like to get the access to and make videos. Offcourse he is going to use the terminology of the british for EOKA. This is not an ommision, we are talking about a guy that painstakingly tries to uncover the origins of missmatched gun parts, prototypes or the life story of their creators. He made a deliberate choice here because lets face it, what percentage of his audience is going to take offence 0,5% ? On the other hand if he uses the right terminology and practically insult his hosts, he is going to lose his access to material that could make alot more videos and promote his work.
So do I like it? No. Do I understand it? Yes. Would I do the same in his place? Probably.
I was looking for this very comment
Thanks for pointing this out even tho its kinda obvious in a way i guess
His job is anyway to talk about guns, not to clarify the terminology. We all are for a free Cyprus, and against the "Empire", but it´s not Ian´s job to judge that, so, he may as well stick with the teminology he was given. And the British will call, sooner or later, every single of their subjects a "terrorist", always, so, simply don´t take them too serious...
@@klausbrinck2137 Plus, lets be real, as much respect as we normally have for Guerilla groups, almost everyone of them will have some bad history to them. Poland had a partisant group, lead by a guy who burnt down houses in Podlasie, for example, EOKA may have been for a free Cyprus, or just a Cyprus without the Britsh there, but there were probably other groups who wanted a fully free Cyprus, but not one united with Greece, as EOKA wanted.
Gotta love how worn the gun is. It would be a good pick for a 1950s revolution, especially with the 2 triggers and the varied magazine capacity
The triggers are the fire selectors, one fires the gun in Semi, the other in Full
Please could you do a mini series of guns like this !! Would be awesome
Yes, please do more videos on such modified guns
Another interesting and informative video by Ian. Certainly the best and the brightest of all the UA-cam firearms channels. He clearly has an excellent working relationship with the Royal Armouries Museum, here in the United Kingdom. It's free to visit and an excellent day out, it's just a shame that certain pieces of the collection, like this, aren't viewable by the general public. As a Brit, I still find it slightly amusing and strange, that we are subjected to some very ill-conceived and misjudged firearms laws, and yet we are custodians of one of the most interesting and unique firearms collections in the world...
10 round magazines were factory made for the Beretta 38 before and during WWII. From what I've read both the Axis and Allies used Beretta 38s with 10 round mags to guard prisoners of war.
With a mag this size wouldn’t it be more practical to carry around a normal pistol though?
it's a controllable submachinegun. get close, hose the target down center mass and get out. takes like.. 2-3 seconds max
The scenario that makes the most sense is to carry one short magazine in the gun for concealability and a standard capacity magazine separately.
Easy setup could be to sling the gun under a jacket and tuck one or two magazines into one's belt on the opposite side.
Only if available.
I thought the EM-62 was adorable...looks like I'm very much wrong. If this isn't the cutest gun I've ever seen then I don't know what is
Betetta facrory mag capacities were 10, 20, 30, and 40. 30 and 40 mags were the same length, with an internal block like the factory 5rd. Ar-15 mag. Also, a stamped receiver model 38a was also made after the war.
Beretta did make 10 round magazines for the M38. Probably so it could be used as some sort of carbine.
I've seen the 10-round mags mentioned as useful in guarding PoWs.
@@johndallman2692 Interesting point
This is quite interesting, honestly.
"Moschetto" should be pronunced with the strong C, so K istead of SC. Anyway I really love your videos, I'm a big fan of them
because it may sound like "soft little guy" that it is an understatement for one of the best IIWW SMG
@RocketSurgeon yes!
Hope you all are doing well this morning. Cheers from the depths of Hell!
My dads grandpas brother (or something like that) lol is George Grivas the leader of EOKA.. the spelling was changed to Grevas cause people were pronouncing it wrong but pretty crazy to see u cover one of their guns.. I have George’s original copy autobiography book he signed at the house. Don’t mean much in America but I love heard in Greece and Cyprus he is still greatly respected
My MMA nickname is Vanilla “GueRRiLLa” in honor to the legacy to the GueRRiLLa Warfare tactics by EOKA
I’m sure nobody cares just thought I would share, crazy to come across this
A Cypriot Whippit?
(Whippit was what John Dillinger called his cut down BAR he slung under his arm for robberies, because he could just "Whippit" out from under his jacket.)
@RocketSurgeon Yes, but in .380. (Okay, back in the day, that was called something like .38 caliber ACP. Or 9mm Kurtz in German.) They were Browning 1911 style autos, but they weren't in .45.
So what's the Cypriot version of Bubba ?
Do more of these cobbled together guns if you ever have the chance, they're super interesting and unique
Η φαση που μπηκα να ακουσω το '' Ενα τραγουδι για τον Γριβα και την ΕΟΚΑ'' και πετυχα αυτο
το "cypriot terrorist organization" δεν το περιμενα
Redpilled Retribution Απο την μεριά των Άγγλων είναι.
@@ΓιώργοςΤσουβαλάκης το ξερω, αλλα δεν περιμενα να το πει ο ιδιος ο Ian
Redpilled Retribution Ειναι στο British Royal Armory. Σιγουρα θα του το επεβαλλαν
I love the look of the bren handle on that gun
according to a quick wiki search, EOKA wanted Cyprus to be reunited with Greece and started legitimately fighting for that around 1955. The Brits formally controlled Cyprus from 1914 up until 1960, so 1955-60 is your time frame of when this gun was captured.
Now I imagine a Steyr AUG handgrip on a MP5.
Thats pretty much the same idea
With a California mag
The next STAR WARS blaster.
Hmmmm………...Was Ian able to slip out undetected with a new item for his personal collection hidden beneath his coat?
PLEASE REPHRASE , AS GREEK I CAN ASURE YOU THEY WERE FIGHTING FOR THE LIBERATION OF CYPRUS IN 1955. TENS OF THEM WERE HUNGED BY BRITTS , EVEN TEENAGER GREEKS.
The 9mm 10 round double feed mag looks a little similar to the 9mm double feed mag used in the Trench Carbine prototypes. Did the mag design survive though the decades and made it to beretta?
Definitely the type of gun you spray the first short mag where ever then put in the standard capacity mags
looks like a gun you would see in a Post Apocalyptic scenario.
Real shame that you didn't get the story of how it was acquired by the Brits.
It was a liberation group fighting against the british,not a terroristic group..
Madem terörist deyillerdi niye Türk çocukları öldürdüler
Pretty cool. What a concept!
Thank you for this presentation and all the links.
That would've been a really cool early PDW idea. Maybe stick a pistol grip on it from some other surplus gun and the Italians could've had themselves their own super spy trenchcoat machine gun like everyone else was going for for damn near free.
Would love to see more fustom and improvised stuff like this
“Not the worst thing I’ve ever seen” that’s a low, low bar.
Definitely a better interpretation, by using the original as a starting point, that a hodgepodge creation in the Khyber Pass mould.
EOKA was not a terrorist group
interesting.
if we are into fantasy guns ..........
start with the design and function of keltek frb, then turn it upside down and drop the caliber to fn5.7 and use p90 magazines, move the trigger forwards more like tkb-22pm and the rear stock so it sits on your shoulder a little like an rpg.
shoulder sling that and you have an effective one hand weapon for very confined spaces like indoors where you need one hand free for opening doors and the ability to turn around in confined walkways without losing sight picture
Very cool Ian, your a lucky dude to get to hang out there and check out their stash. I bet they have a bunch of cool guns you cant find anywhere else. Maybe do some videos on the L-85 family, I have heard of some pretty cool DMR/Sniper type variants (if you have already done vids on them let me know and ill hunt em down). Love the channel bro keep doing your thing.
Mizzle420420 already did a whole series on the development of the SA-80 series rifles
1 2
Oh cool I’m gonna have to check that out
Interesting, but this also brings to mind a question that would be really interesting to see a video answer/analysis/comparison for us less than expert viewers. What are the specific reasons ww2 smg's (this, MP-40, Sten, etc.) have such a long receiver (magazine very far forward) compared to post-1960's (MP-5, M12, etc)? What technological or fundamental design change brought about the seeming dramatic shortening in the designs?
Very good question. I would appreciate that information also.
I know _very_ little about firearms, but (from what I gather from Ian's videos) a fundamental design change was using a "telescoping bolt", as popularised by the very successful and often imitated Uzi design. That's regarding open-bolt designs.
Also, more advanced (and expensive) SMGs that fire from a locked breach, like the MP5, can get away with less massive bolts.
Finally, and that's just my speculation, there was a strong push for shorter assault rifles (with all those bullpups in the '70s) that might have pushed SMG designers to try and shorten their guns. After all, why carry an SMG if it's almost the same size as the main military firearm?
good thoughts
Jason Doe ,the Uzi line of submachine guns were partly inspired by the Czech Sa 23 line of submachine guns.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa_vz._23
Your general premises are correct; the change in size of post WWII machine guns was largely driven by the *commercial* success of things like the Uzi in addition to new understanding and application of manufacturing technologies ( i.e. locked breech in the MP5 ).
1930's and WWII submachine guns were generally longer mostly due to needing the space for a big enough heavy bolt and strong enough recoil spring(s) to reliably work in the open bolt actions those weapons most often used.
Ian, your next book should be about improvised and home-built firearms. I'm sure you can find the guy who used to do the regular articles about them in Small Arms Review (Jean Huon?) and do a collaboration with him.
In a few months all of Ian’s guns will have a Bren carry handle tacked to them. Just watch.
Have a safe and a happy new year.
ΕΟΚΑ teems was actually operating like " military units " and had their own gunsmiths and armorers and they were quite capable of making one of weapons especially little sub machine guns like this one 😉 after all many was veterans of the Greek and the British armed forces
I'd love to see more guns like this.
It would be cool if Beretta brought back the model 38 in both 9mm and 22lr. It would sell hard on the American market.
That is a fantastic little gun.
Better thought out than a pistol grip only shotgun.
*Tacticool*
Browses collection, “oh, that’s interesting”. Curator “we acquired that after it was used to murder a nursery full of handicapped infants”. “This misplaced charging handle is an interesting aftermarket adaptation that the original designer might appreciate.”
That's one hell of an accusation to level . . . You got a Source? Or Proof?
Not the younglings!?
@@TheGodsrighthandman en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole
@@TheGodsrighthandman The clue is the term 'terrorist group' #readabook
AAAW look at the itty bitty magazine. aww does the baby want a bottle?
As a Cypriot, the fact that EOKA is being referred to as a "terrorist group" just infuriates me. They were a *resistance,* not terrorists.
Britbongs still believe their empire was benevolent
One mans terrorist is anothers freedom fighter, he's in a British museum so I bet that they told him the British perspective.
@@MrPanos2000 It's tragic, really...
Resistance against what?
@@juanzulu1318 British occupation
EOKA Beretta 38, when digging holes under the mountain roads for trucks to crash into wasn't enough to reclaim Cyprus for Greece.
Please advise when Cyprus was Greek.
Engineer, culturally? For 3 millennia of recorded history.
Cyprus has been owned and been ruled by Phoenicians, Assyrians, Egyptians, Persians, Romans, Byzantines, Arabs, Richard the Lionheart, Templars, Crusaders, Venetians, Ottomans and British colonialists. Greece hasn't owned Cyprus for around 1500 years. Even then it was Alexander the Great who was a Macedonian.
@@engineer6250 ever since the Mycenaeans arrived in 1400BC
The original magpul afg
Its not a terrorist group , british didnt let em to accomplish the idea of "ενωσης" to unite with their motherland greece and set the island free , so the greek cypriots made this group to make a non stop guerilla warfare
I don't really know if it is correct to call EOKA for a terrorist group? It was founded as a underground guerilla group which struggled for "liberating" Cyprus from the British colonial rule and Enossis with Greece. However it took a rather violent expression.
As long as they use terrorist means to promote their views, they can be called terrorists. From the this point of view any violent resistance group can be called terrorist or bandit movement, including WWII resistance movements.
One mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist.
@@SamuraiAkechi What do we call the British occupation force in Cyprus? Freedom oppressors?
@@TorianTammas Yes, if we accept the cyprian nationalist narrative, we can call british occupation forces "oppressors". Though some people tend to view colonial regimes as progressive and good, but such people are mostly weirdos or just come from ex-metropoles.
I don't know that much about british regulations imposed on the population of Cyprus and I would be glad if anyone would advise me on some good books about Cyprus independence struggle.
@@TorianTammas might as well, considering the damage they left all over the world.
...how it ended up in England is an easy question to answer, if it is indeed an EOKA weapon, the Brits had/have a heavy presence in Cyprus sine the Cypriot War...this was probably confiscated there in the early 70s...
No this was taken during the war in 55-59
@@seanmacuaiteir437 If they have no record of its history it could have been acquired by the British anytime after EOKA came into existence and not just during the initial fighting - they were still finding weapons and mu itions from the early campaign after partition (some acquired from individuals by troops under UN command)
Probably it was used by Italian troops during the occupuation of Greece and later lost/abandoned/steal by some Greek which later sold it or give it to a Cypriotan.
It has "1948" marking on it so it's not from WWII.
@@ANDREALEONE95 Umm it's Cypriot. Also saying " a Greek giving it to a Cypriot" is like saying a Greek giving it to a Spartan/Athenean. Gypriot=Greek.
EOKA was a Liberation group and Grivas is admired as a liberator and revolutionary both in Greece and Cyprus. Funny how the brits call every group that opposes their imperialistic tendencies a "terrorist" group
Is it me or dose this look like a gun that would belong in fallout
Looks like it could be used as a prop for a Star Wars movie or TV show
EOKA wasn't a terrorist group..
Was fighters for freedom of Cyprus from England and they want union with mother Greece.
EOKA B was the next generation of EOKA and fight against Turkish invasion in 1974
Sorry about my English. Greetings from Greece
EOKA B was from 1970 untill 1974. EOKA B claimed to fight for Enosis, and used the name of EOKA. But very few of the ex EOKA members followed and entered this new organization. And mainly, this time they didnt have the support of almost all the people, just a few.
In 15 July 1974 the Greek junta made a coup against president Makarios. Then EOKA B supported this coup.
But turkey thought that the coup was a good excuse to present, and invaded Kypros (Chypre, Zypern).
So, in effect, the activity of EOKA B created a climate that made the coup possible. And so they gave an excuse to turkey.
That is the reason why EOKA B is severely condemned by all the people. Tragically, some people of patriotic feelings havent discovered yet the immense catastrophe caused by EOKA B.
Some people present EOKA and EOKA B as the same,
-- Some people do this because they want to present EOKA as a terrorist organization, similarly as it was EOKA B.
-- Some other people also present EOKA and EOKA B as the same, because they want to present EOKA B as a liberation movenment, similarly as it was EOKA.
Both of these are wrong.
So, EOKA B was before the invasion. They didnt fight the invasion.
In fact, there are testimonies that EOKA B weren't at the defence positions to fight the turks, but were at the mountain, feasting with souvla, and keeping their much needed weapons away from the defence posts.
Listen to the newly published interview by terrorist from group eoka on YT.
it wasn't a terrorist groop it was a rebel against england
If you have the footage a bit of a compilation of these could be fun
Totally would like to see more of these "3rd party" modified guns.
Better than the Cobray Shotgun?
EOKA during 1955-59 had been considered a terrorist organization for Great Britain, but not for the Greek Cypriots. Greeks on the island considered EOKA as a liberating force, a force that would bring the most wanted independence on the island after hundreds of years. 40000 Greek Cypriot volunteers in WW 2 under the Allied flags were not considered enough for Britain to let them form an independent state. EOKA attacked only military or police targets, communication and radio stations. In some cases, they attacked airfields causing irreparable damage to military aircraft.
Τεράστιε Διγενή ακόμα τρομοκράτη σε θεωρούν τα αγγλάκια
The incredibly rare hut-broom
Nice! Thanks Ian.
Rich.
They had every right to fight the brits
Everyone else who fought Brits wasn't accused to be a terrorist.
And murder their own?
@@engineer6250 You seem to be shilling a lot against cyprus. Who are you?
@@VG2M76 Plenty of them were, actually
@@Redpilled_Retribution not Shilling against Cyprus, just someone who doesn't like to see history rewritten because constant repetition of their mantra overwrites the truth.
Which is the Bobsempletank of firearms?
Nice :)
A little hint, "Moschetto" in italian is read like "Mosketto"
Bubba never sleeps