September 16, 2024 will mark the 20th anniversary of the lockout that permanently canceled the entire 2004-05 NHL season as well as the 2005 Stanley Cup playoffs and the Stanley Cup Finals.
Alex Ovechkin was drafted in the 04 Draft, and the 04-05 season was supposed to be his rookie year. If it wasn’t for all the lockouts and covid, Ovie would’ve likely been passed Gretzky by now.
Because of the lockout I got see 11 NHL players play over here in the UK. They were Wade Belak, Rob Davidson, Eric Cairns, Scott Nichol, Nick Boynton, Ian Moran, Steve McKenna, Jamie McLennan, David Oliver, Brendan Witt and Chris McAllister . Wade Belak got a pretty long suspension over here playing for Coventry Blaze.
As a Swede, I quite enjoyed the 04-05 season. I wasn't really into the NHL back then - didn't really have a way to watch it regularly - and the lockout gave my team, Frölunda, a fantastic season. Henrik Lundqvist's last season with the team, and returning players like Daniel Alfredsson, Samuel Påhlson and Per-Johan Axelsson. They dominated. On edit: MoDo had Forsberg, Näslund and the Sedins! Insane!
Thank you for describing the finer details of the lockout Shannon. I was a child at the time and didn't understand what was happening so it was fascinating to hear some of the finer details. You also brought up Selanne comments on the lockout and I've always felt it helped Mike Modano and Sergei Zubov a lot as well as each of them had shown significant signs of decline in 03-04 and came back in 05-06 looking like they did in their prime. Zubov especially who came as close to winning a Norris that he ever did. The lockout was devastating for me as an 11 year old. I hope we never go through that again but I'm not naive enough to actually believe that.
Great coverage of that lockout. I had season tickets in Tampa and l was overjoyed that my team won the cup . A chance to repeat was stolen from us . We went from that high to a punch in the gut . Business flourished for the owners as the value of their franchises exploded . The fans were completely disregarded during this process. Shannon shed light on this dark period of the NHL
As a Penguins fan, the lockout absolutely saved the franchise from moving. Financially, they couldn't survive without a salary cap. Of course, getting Crosby after already drafting Fleury and Malkin certainly helped as well.
Dude i just came across your channel on your "making case for each team to win the cup" video. I gotta say, youve rapidly ascended to my favorite analyst to listen to for hockey!!! You have great insight, clearly do your homework, and a great way of articulating points. I love the minimalist presentation style with rhe whiteboard it makes me feel like Im listening to a coach break down a strategy 😆. Lastly, the charisma (or "rizz" LOL adds a great colorful touch. The side tracking and random comments are funny too. Keep it up, i hope more hockey fans see your channel this is the quintessential way to keep up with, and enjoy listening to hockey shit Hahahs
Agreed on how incredibly frustrating it is that the NHL and NHLPA always seem to wait until or past the last possible minute to seriously negotiate. They seemed to have learned nothing by 2012.
This lockout definitely knocked the air out of my level of fandom. Still follow hockey, still played myself another 12-13 years, but the enthusiasm for nhl was gone and I have been to just 4 games since when it used to be 5-10 games a season.
It took me 14 years to come back to the NHL. I hated all parties involved and their giving the fingers to their fanbase and low tier players were being put into financial difficulties due to not getting paid.
my former teammate Tony Voce made the Phantoms in the AHL this year even with all the NHL players. scores over 20 goals. one of the few young guys that didnt lose a job that season. RIP Tony.
The lockout killed my fandom for a few years there. I stopped waiting for a deal, then completely gave up on watching pro hockey. Didn't come back around as a fan until the 2008 playoffs.
Ah, the season we saw some big names in the Swedish league. Henrik Zetterberg was the top scorer in Elitserien (now SHL) with 50 points in 50 games, one point ahead of Kristian Huselius and another three ahead of Mattias Weinhandl and Shawn Horcoff. Brendan Morrison and Mike Knuble were two other foreign players who were top-10 in scoring. There were many more players (Hossa, Forsberg, Chara, Näslund etc.) who didn't play a full season though...
The lack of spending discipline was part of the problem but the other risk was that only 6-7 teams could freely spend and thus competition was at risk. A scenario where the big 7 all spend $100m and the other teams are around 30m does not make for a compelling product. The cap also brought a floor and revenue sharing. These features improved broader competition in theory and when you look back over the past 20 years, the league clearly has increased balanced.
2005 was the install of the salary cap. it was the owners hill to die on. i hate that it exists but understand and begrudgingly respect why it had to be put in. one of the few good things that emerged from 2005 was the permission of the 2-line pass. scary to think if it was permitted all the time, how much more points gretzky would have scored back in his time.
Another classic example of managment and Bosses trying to argue that employes are the reason they can't make money so they don't want to give raises or hire good talent that will be more expensive than what they already have. In hindsight, the NHLPA should have fought for guratees under a salary cap. Guranteed Pensions, Medical, 5-star accommodations, business class flights, multi-year guaranteed contracts, and then a high salary cap.
Ya and the players could have taken an average pay fro. 1.8M to 1.1M So sad that multimillionaires couldnt make 700k more per year so they shut the League down
Well, in a normal work environment, they could do that ( speaking of the NHLPA). But pro sports is different, because players have such a limited time to earn money.
This is the history video i have been waiting for!! As a newer hockey fan it has been lovely to learn the history of the league, but the lockout has been one of the most confusing things for me to learn about in a simple way. Thank you THG :D
The comical part of these lock outs is that the owners fight to the death to get their way, things like the salary cap, and then the day after the ink is signed on a new CBA, the same owners are doing their best to beat and cheat on the salary cap. They say the fans always come back, which is true of most fans. I never really came back to baseball after the 1994 strike, but there were reasons for that beyond the strike. Hockey, I don't remember being too bothered by the lock out. I just found other things to do and didn't worry about hockey, and when they resumed play, I just started watching again on TV. I'd gone about five years without watching hockey in the 80s, when the games were all moved to cable, so it was nothing new to me.
The biggest thing that erked me about the lockout was Zetterberg and Datsyuk losing what could have been their best year. Hank retired 40 points shy of 1000 and Pasha 47. Maybe the Wings win another cup, maybe Lidstrom gets that 8th Norris and ends up tied with Orr, Yzerman would've moved up the all time goal list, but the 2 best Red Wings of my generation missing 1000 points mark is what stands out.
I talked to one of these deranged fans blaming the players for causing the lockout. All brick walls. They would not listen to reason that the owners are offering the players money & not controlling themselves on spiraling costs. It's amazing that the greedy owners kept winning during these negations for every contract negations, still raising prices on tickets & merch & a lot of fans still blaming the players in high costs in enjoying the favourite sport.
In February 2005 I got a new job and, while the job and company were good (still with a different division of the same company, in fact), one of my favorite perks was that it was across the street from a favorite sports bar in Buffalo. A few days later the NHL season cancellation became official, and a few days after that the bar announced it was closing immediately. Buffalo sports bars have three seasons: football, hockey, and survive until August, and losing one of those in February meant it was a long way to August. I ended up going there as a new employee once.
Vinny Damphousse, one of my favourites, was also one of those players who did not return.. It made me so sad as I remember just before the lockout he signed with Colorado..
Let's not forget it is the owners that locked out the players. It is the owners fault this season did not occur. It is the owners that do not pay the players enough compared to that they generate
The only live hockey I got to see that year was the FBI against the Secret Service, which was the best hockey you were going to see in DC that year, NHL or not
I wish I could blame Bettman on this one, but Sadly, MLB only a decade prior lost a world series to a work stoppage. Now, MLB locks them out the moment the CBA expires just to control the timing.. I believe the NHL learned some lessons from this. I also believe that unlike other major sports, The NHL owners showed they have the stomach to sit out the entire year to get what they want. Sadly, that not talking til the gun is at the head is not unique to sports even. I've seen it with other unionized businesses.. Teachers unions as well. If MLB had done this in '82, MLB would have had a much different system today. The NHL also does not have the deep flowing revenue streams that the other major sports have either. Which may be why they did have the stomach for sitting out.
That lockout was torture for me because I had just started watching hockey at the end of 2003,and was hooked right away,(no pun intended)! Edit: I also always thought that the NBA,who was facing the same scenario the following year, made the NHL look bad, because of how quick they got their deal done. Wasn't long after that, that the NHL and PA made their agreement. Could be wrong though!
Vinny Damphousse had signed with Colorado but never came back, I think it was a one season contract only. Also, Valeri Bure had signed with LA but it must run in the family, his knees were also failing him, among other issues.Some Russian players of quality went back to the Russian Superliga (I think it wasn't named KHL yet) and remained there, I liked Alexander Frolov a bunch but the lockout got us to lose him, among others, I would always trade to get him on NHL 2005 if I was creating a season with a non top 5 team....that game, NHL 2005 on PC and at a friend's house on PS2 was the one thing that saved us who were big fans from going nuts. Spangler Cup tournaments didn't really do it for me. NHL 2005 also, ironically one of the best versions of the game, especially on PC, playing against the computer was always one hell of a challenge when playing at the Advanced difficulty level, it had started with the previous game, '04, where difficulty and realism increased and a lot of the arcade-style stuff was gone, I remember me and my best friend who would make seasons and play a period each against the computer...the AI had been revamped A LOT, and we were frustrated, we were actually losing games, a lot at first, same with '05, not as dramatic. But anyways, those tournaments where you picked the guy with the best overall in a team and said friend had the gizmo so that one could plug in 4 gamepads on the ps2 made for some pretty entertaining nights. But for those who don't play NHL, it must have been extremely more frustrating. I too was wondering why negotiations were dead in freaking october, I never blamed Bettman personally, I blamed Goodenow for selling the players an unrealistic plan where they would come out on top... The biggest insult, y'know those THANK YOU FANS writings on the ice at the beginning of the 05-06 season, the first team to get rid of em was Montreal Canadiens, well, management. That felt like "we knew you'd all come back crawling and not make a peep about the 500 dollar seats to be in 2 or 3 front rows", very insulting to the fans whom they didn't feel like thanking all that much for long. Some teams had that message on their ice for the entire season!
I was one of those fans that followed through with my threat of not watching the nhl cause of this lockout... Took 12 years to get me back into the nhl product
I stopped following hockey after this lockout. I was a student struggling to pay my bills and it just pissed me off to watch these overpaid entertainers have a lockout from playing a game for millions of dollars. 16:20 I didn't watch an NHL game for at least 12 years, and still don't pay for any games I do watch which are rare.
One of the happiest times, one of the saddest times in my sports life. In June the Tampa Bay Lightning won the Stanley Cup, proving that hockey belonged in Florida. Being a Panthers fan that meant respect for Florida. In October the Red Sox swept the St. Louis Cardinals for the first World Series in my lifetime. And then the NHL lockout!!!
This lockout was a necessary evil. Gary Bettman defeated Bob Goodenow, got the salary cap and that is why he is still commissioner, two decades later. The owners failed to get a cap in 1994-95 and that's why things spiralled right out of control. By 2004, two-thirds of the teams were losing money and teams like the Buffalo Sabres could easily have folded. The owners got the cap to stabilize the game.
The cap was needed because the NHL has always been piss poor in marketing the game at pro level. That's why it's always been and always will be the red-headed step sibbling compared to everyother major pro sport in North America. Thanks to Messi, MLS is on the cusp of overtaking the NHL.
@@PeterCPRail8748 The cap was needed because players' salaries needed to be brought under control. Spendthrift teams like the St. Louis Blues were screwing up the League-wide salary scale. Trying to make ice hockey mainstream in regions where even a trace of snowfall causes a state of emergency is delusional and foolhardy. I think you're giving Messi way too much credit. Soccer is the undisputed global game. Ice hockey is a regional sport and global warming can only hinder its geographical strongholds. Even in Canada, where the demographics are changing rapidly, more kids are registered in soccer than in hockey.
I know this isn't a popular opinion and I understand why. But my local team in Sweden was Frölunda and their lineup was arguably the best in the world that year. Lundqvist showed what he was able to do against top players. We had players with roots around Frölunda (Alfredsson, PJ Axelsson) along with veterans who melded very well with the team setup. Basically our first line became partly our third line that year and they played like a second second line. The nostalgia for me is just huge around that team.
I understand it from the leagues perspective. What you have to understand the owners are NOT the league. And the problem was that the rich owners just wasn't interested in listening to the not so wealthy owners and there was not rule making it possible for the league to force some owners to spend less. All this meant is that some teams had to spend more money than they really could. BUT the alternative was to never field a competitive team/fold the team and have a league where 10 teams could win and the rest are just fillers with no chance to win. If not for the salary cap some owners would spend insane amounts even today making the league very uneven. What it comes down to is that the owners don't give a crap about the other owners and want to be the team that beat the other team. Doesn't matter if they sit on the board of governors, they care about their OWN teams, not the health of other teams=the league.
I didn't return to the NHL till basically the 05-06 playoffs. It was only because the Sabres were surprisingly good. Idk if I ever watch an NHL game again without that.
This was fully on the players, they were morons. Cap was far less than it would have been if they agreed in Sept 2004, than July 2005. The owners had also just recently added 4 teams and got expansion money from that. They had spent 10 years prepping to get the cap. It has greatly benefited the majority of players. The players that have taken the biggest hit have been star players. The majority of players on the teams have made great money, as compared to if there was no cap they would have to take less, because stars would be taking up most of the teams budget. NHL has the second highest league minimum between the big 4 sports. That cap has made all teams competitive and enabled expansion and also to have a league that grosses almost 7 billion. The salary cap in year 1 was $39 million. Today we are almost at 90 million, It has grown and the players are making great money overall!
Don't forget the Avs were looking to come back after their 03/04 season was a bust and they were looking for blood... until the lockout broke the team up
At least when the MLB had their nasty bust up in the 90s, while the ‘94 WS was canceled, which will forever be a major black eye on the sport, it at least happened in the middle of the season, and spilled into the 1995 season (only 144 games were played), so an entire season wasn’t canceled. Good thing the lockout didn’t bleed into the 2022 season
Another reason why ESPN backed out of its TV deal with the NHL in addition to the lockout was because around the same time, the NBA (who ESPN also had a TV deal with) offered ESPN more games to air in time slots that would have been filled by the NHL especially during the playoffs. As a result, the majority of that season's NBA playoffs were aired on ESPN/ABC which angered Turner Sports executives big time as TNT aired significantly fewer NBA games. Turner Sports was so angry at David Stern (the NBA Commissioner) that they threatened to back out of their contract & do a deal with the NHL once the lockout was over. The NBA ultimately had to give TNT more games as well as exclusive rights for the All Star Game in order to keep them as a TV partner. It wouldn't be until a few years ago that the NHL would be aired on TNT. As for the NBA, this upcoming season is likely the last on TNT as the NBA will be moving those games to Amazon & NBC (and keeping ESPN) for 2025/26 & beyond.
This was one of the most exciting times for the NHL. With Crosby and Ovi set to takeoff, which quickly turned into one of the most disappointing seasons ever.
I would have given the Stanley Cup to the AHL champions which were the Philadelphia Phantoms. This should be Philadephia's third Stanley cup. We can't have that.
That was the end of players control of salaries. The surrender on the salary cap ended this, but the players were still thinking (?)they were going to get what they deserved.
If the 04-05 season had went played, and the Thrashers indeed made the Stanley Cup Playoffs, there could've been a chance the Thrashers would still be in Atlanta, and the Coyotes would've moved back to Winnipeg following their bankruptcy. But then again, the Thrashers were in their first year under Atlanta Spirit's ownership, who wanted to get rid of them almost as soon as they had acquired the hockey club, because ASG wanted 50+ open dates for concerts at Philips Arena.
Yep, Binghamton Senators! (My hometown!) That team was stacked: Emery, Spezza, Vermette... And they blew it in the AHL playoffs! I am VERY concerned that the next CBA isn't being hammered out and negotiated. Tick tick tick....
All the teams should call their retired players who was on contract in the 2004-05 season to have a mini tournament and finally crown the 2005 stanley cup champion.
If only that season actually got played, becase the Canadian Stanley Cup droughtay very well have ended in 2005, with Ottawa winning over Detroit in a close seven game series, led by Dominik Hasek, who gets one over his former team.
The lightning had a great team and thought they could go back to back champions. The lockout happened and the season gone. The next year the team was dismantled.
I think HC Davos appreciated Jumbo Joe coming across to Switzerland. That's where he met his wife and he's kept ties to that league and that team. He went back and trained with them most offseasons, returned there in the other lockout and brought a few teammates with him. He also participated in the Spengler Cup for Davos and is attached to the Spengler Cup permanently now.
He should've had a permament engraving on the Stanley Cup though. If it wasn't for that full lockout he could've had it in 2005 with San Jose. I'm very bitter about it, and I'll still be bitter about it until the day I die.
the downstream effects are still being felt to this day, and it's not even about the off-ice stuff. Ovechkin probably already breaks Gretzky's goal record by now if we don't lose 116 games between his true rookie season and the 12-13 lockout. some borderline HoF players have another season to bolster their resumes. Pittsburgh may still have been bad, but who knows if they win the lottery to pick him in 2005 if there is an actual season.
Sweden's Elitserien became like the mini-NHL in 2004/2005 lock-out season. So much top NHL tallent in various teams that was not Swedes. Swizz league and Russia was also mini NHL leagues that year as well. But there was a lot of great stars that did not play like; Mario Lemieux, Paul Kariya, Teemu Sellanne with others took the time for recovering injuries, while Mats Sundin, Scott Niedermayer, Martin Brodeur, Dominik Hasek, Brett Hull and many veterans just took a break.
Two interesting notes, the salary cap that was agreed to in July was 39 million dollars, the cap the NHL proposed to save the season was 42 million dollars, Bob Goodenow really fumbled the bag with that. Second, the agreement ESPN had with the NHL for the 04-05 season was terrible for the league, it cut the rights fee in half ( 120 million per year for 5 years ( 600 million total), to 60 million dollars as a one-year deal with an option) and the regular season schedule was exclusively on ESPN2 ( I would assume most playoff games were also on ESPN2. Also, ESPN as a result of fewer games canceled the popular NHL2Night show ( John Buccigross, Ray Ferraro, and Barry Melrose were the hosts ) so the league was getting no money and no promotion from ESPN. Comcast ended up giving the NHL more money and more promotion/involvement not to mention it shared the same talent and eventually production as NBC. It is still an interesting question I think would the NHL have been better off being throwaway content on ESPN2 post-lockout than getting the respect/involvement that OLN/Versus/NBCSN gave the league ( The original NBC contract was a separate deal from Comcast, albeit it was a revenue sharing deal, but they would have had the NHL whether games aired on ESPN or OLN).
Are you kidding? Disney/ABC/ESPN 'has survived' just fine in the 17 years they didn't cover hockey. And while it seemed stupid to have a hockey game in an arena on the Outdoor Life Network, NBC did a great job of producing the games as if it meant something. And with Pierre McGuire, there was a huge respect for the entire community of hockey (with all the random shout outs during games).
@@HHSGDFootballJPD Exactly what I thought, NBC gave the NHL the respect, promotion, and validity a major league needs and deserves. As for ESPN once they got the NBA contract they plain acted like they didn't need hockey which only alienated hockey fans to a point of permanent dislike towards ESPN I think ( even with the current contract)
About 8 years ago I bought NHL 2k5 for the original xbox for some "retro gaming" fun. Did a franchise as the Thrashers and won the cup in Year 1. Since then I've always said for no reason at all that 2004-05 was the Thrashers year and they were robbed. P.S. talk about a gut punch for Montréal. The lockout and the Expos move all at once
Sadly the boards we used back then no longer exist so I can't go back and check for sure, but I feel like in Nashville it was very Pro-owners. Part of that was because we were just coming off the sale, the Weber contract, and really were wondering if this thing was going to make it long term. We felt at the time we would probably never be competitive with other teams without a cap. I think in the end it worked out pretty well, its got its warts, but we know the owners and GM's can't help themselves, and as much as it might have capped players earnings it also probably put the league in a safer long term situation. Sadly though for the players they pretty much tossed out any future leverage. They should have gotten far more benefits out of than they did, and the odds of them being able to get those now are probably slim to none.
if you take into account games missed via lockout and g per game/ assist per game averages ovechkin would be very close to passing gretzky right now if no lockouts ever occured in hockey.
"You Can't C Me hat because we didn't see any hockey.
Well done Shannon.
AND HIS NAME IS JOHN CENA
@@AnoobisSaibotis 🎺🎺🎺🎺🎺
Fun fact: during the lock-out, sports networks started showing poker instead of hockey leading to gambling addictions becoming more rampant in Canada
They learned so much from the experience, that it only took eight years to have a near-repeat. 🙄
September 16, 2024 will mark the 20th anniversary of the lockout that permanently canceled the entire 2004-05 NHL season as well as the 2005 Stanley Cup playoffs and the Stanley Cup Finals.
Stanley Cup FINAL.
@@peterolbrisch8970 Whatever.
Expect the same for 26-27.
@@TimFrith24 No, not whatever, that's what it's called.
@@peterolbrisch8970You clearly knew what they meant, though.
Alex Ovechkin was drafted in the 04 Draft, and the 04-05 season was supposed to be his rookie year. If it wasn’t for all the lockouts and covid, Ovie would’ve likely been passed Gretzky by now.
They’re very lucky this didn’t take the league down all together
It happened again in 2012-13 although not the whole season
Because of the lockout I got see 11 NHL players play over here in the UK. They were Wade Belak, Rob Davidson, Eric Cairns, Scott Nichol, Nick Boynton, Ian Moran, Steve McKenna, Jamie McLennan, David Oliver, Brendan Witt and Chris McAllister . Wade Belak got a pretty long suspension over here playing for Coventry Blaze.
As a Swede, I quite enjoyed the 04-05 season. I wasn't really into the NHL back then - didn't really have a way to watch it regularly - and the lockout gave my team, Frölunda, a fantastic season. Henrik Lundqvist's last season with the team, and returning players like Daniel Alfredsson, Samuel Påhlson and Per-Johan Axelsson. They dominated.
On edit: MoDo had Forsberg, Näslund and the Sedins! Insane!
"The NHL Lockout explained with Beer" remainsnone of the greatest beer analogies of all time.
Thank you for describing the finer details of the lockout Shannon. I was a child at the time and didn't understand what was happening so it was fascinating to hear some of the finer details. You also brought up Selanne comments on the lockout and I've always felt it helped Mike Modano and Sergei Zubov a lot as well as each of them had shown significant signs of decline in 03-04 and came back in 05-06 looking like they did in their prime. Zubov especially who came as close to winning a Norris that he ever did. The lockout was devastating for me as an 11 year old. I hope we never go through that again but I'm not naive enough to actually believe that.
That Donald Duck magnet is awesome 👍
Great coverage of that lockout. I had season tickets in Tampa and l was overjoyed that my team won the cup . A chance to repeat was stolen from us . We went from that high to a punch in the gut . Business flourished for the owners as the value of their franchises exploded . The fans were completely disregarded during this process. Shannon shed light on this dark period of the NHL
As a Penguins fan, the lockout absolutely saved the franchise from moving. Financially, they couldn't survive without a salary cap. Of course, getting Crosby after already drafting Fleury and Malkin certainly helped as well.
Dude i just came across your channel on your "making case for each team to win the cup" video. I gotta say, youve rapidly ascended to my favorite analyst to listen to for hockey!!!
You have great insight, clearly do your homework, and a great way of articulating points. I love the minimalist presentation style with rhe whiteboard it makes me feel like Im listening to a coach break down a strategy 😆. Lastly, the charisma (or "rizz" LOL adds a great colorful touch. The side tracking and random comments are funny too. Keep it up, i hope more hockey fans see your channel this is the quintessential way to keep up with, and enjoy listening to hockey shit Hahahs
This lockout is why Bettman will be commissioner as long as he wants to
Agreed on how incredibly frustrating it is that the NHL and NHLPA always seem to wait until or past the last possible minute to seriously negotiate. They seemed to have learned nothing by 2012.
This lockout definitely knocked the air out of my level of fandom. Still follow hockey, still played myself another 12-13 years, but the enthusiasm for nhl was gone and I have been to just 4 games since when it used to be 5-10 games a season.
It took me 14 years to come back to the NHL. I hated all parties involved and their giving the fingers to their fanbase and low tier players were being put into financial difficulties due to not getting paid.
I completely agree!!! Took me 12 years
my former teammate Tony Voce made the Phantoms in the AHL this year even with all the NHL players. scores over 20 goals. one of the few young guys that didnt lose a job that season. RIP Tony.
The lockout killed my fandom for a few years there. I stopped waiting for a deal, then completely gave up on watching pro hockey. Didn't come back around as a fan until the 2008 playoffs.
Ah, the season we saw some big names in the Swedish league. Henrik Zetterberg was the top scorer in Elitserien (now SHL) with 50 points in 50 games, one point ahead of Kristian Huselius and another three ahead of Mattias Weinhandl and Shawn Horcoff. Brendan Morrison and Mike Knuble were two other foreign players who were top-10 in scoring. There were many more players (Hossa, Forsberg, Chara, Näslund etc.) who didn't play a full season though...
Great video. Really enjoy these historical videos that are more than just stats.
The lack of spending discipline was part of the problem but the other risk was that only 6-7 teams could freely spend and thus competition was at risk.
A scenario where the big 7 all spend $100m and the other teams are around 30m does not make for a compelling product.
The cap also brought a floor and revenue sharing. These features improved broader competition in theory and when you look back over the past 20 years, the league clearly has increased balanced.
2005 was the install of the salary cap. it was the owners hill to die on.
i hate that it exists but understand and begrudgingly respect why it had to be put in.
one of the few good things that emerged from 2005 was the permission of the 2-line pass.
scary to think if it was permitted all the time, how much more points gretzky would have scored back in his time.
Why do you hate the cap?
This robbed Datsyuk and Zetterberg of 1000 points
dont forget 12-13 shortened season too
@@CapnDiddles I knew there was another reason
Another classic example of managment and Bosses trying to argue that employes are the reason they can't make money so they don't want to give raises or hire good talent that will be more expensive than what they already have.
In hindsight, the NHLPA should have fought for guratees under a salary cap. Guranteed Pensions, Medical, 5-star accommodations, business class flights, multi-year guaranteed contracts, and then a high salary cap.
Ya and the players could have taken an average pay fro. 1.8M to 1.1M
So sad that multimillionaires couldnt make 700k more per year so they shut the League down
Well, in a normal work environment, they could do that ( speaking of the NHLPA). But pro sports is different, because players have such a limited time to earn money.
I started following hockey again because of you Shannon in 2017.
I got my hockey fix that season by going to more WHL games in Saskatoon with the Blades ⚔
This made me cry as a 9 year old because I began going to games in the 2003-2004 season and then they do this. It really sucked.
This is the history video i have been waiting for!! As a newer hockey fan it has been lovely to learn the history of the league, but the lockout has been one of the most confusing things for me to learn about in a simple way. Thank you THG :D
An absolute disgrace that this happened. Shame on everyone who was the cause of locking out the entire season.
As a fan, I don't think I could live through another lockout...
The only other minor positive to come out was a stacked World Juniors Tournament
The comical part of these lock outs is that the owners fight to the death to get their way, things like the salary cap, and then the day after the ink is signed on a new CBA, the same owners are doing their best to beat and cheat on the salary cap. They say the fans always come back, which is true of most fans. I never really came back to baseball after the 1994 strike, but there were reasons for that beyond the strike. Hockey, I don't remember being too bothered by the lock out. I just found other things to do and didn't worry about hockey, and when they resumed play, I just started watching again on TV. I'd gone about five years without watching hockey in the 80s, when the games were all moved to cable, so it was nothing new to me.
The biggest thing that erked me about the lockout was Zetterberg and Datsyuk losing what could have been their best year. Hank retired 40 points shy of 1000 and Pasha 47. Maybe the Wings win another cup, maybe Lidstrom gets that 8th Norris and ends up tied with Orr, Yzerman would've moved up the all time goal list, but the 2 best Red Wings of my generation missing 1000 points mark is what stands out.
I talked to one of these deranged fans blaming the players for causing the lockout. All brick walls. They would not listen to reason that the owners are offering the players money & not controlling themselves on spiraling costs. It's amazing that the greedy owners kept winning during these negations for every contract negations, still raising prices on tickets & merch & a lot of fans still blaming the players in high costs in enjoying the favourite sport.
I remember going to alot of gopher hockey games that year with my dad
In February 2005 I got a new job and, while the job and company were good (still with a different division of the same company, in fact), one of my favorite perks was that it was across the street from a favorite sports bar in Buffalo. A few days later the NHL season cancellation became official, and a few days after that the bar announced it was closing immediately. Buffalo sports bars have three seasons: football, hockey, and survive until August, and losing one of those in February meant it was a long way to August. I ended up going there as a new employee once.
"It's our report... Go get your own report."
Vincent Damphousse also didn't come back after
Yes, and all on the board older than him.
Vinny Damphousse, one of my favourites, was also one of those players who did not return..
It made me so sad as I remember just before the lockout he signed with Colorado..
The good old lockout
“Playoff officiating” is a thing in EVERY SPORT!
Of all your videos. I do not want to remember the worst hockey year in my 60+ years of fandom. You get a 👍but I won't relive that hot mess again.
Let's not forget it is the owners that locked out the players. It is the owners fault this season did not occur. It is the owners that do not pay the players enough compared to that they generate
I swear this would make a very good dark comedy one day. The nhl and its players doing nothing as their league burns seems like one out of it
The only live hockey I got to see that year was the FBI against the Secret Service, which was the best hockey you were going to see in DC that year, NHL or not
I wish I could blame Bettman on this one, but Sadly, MLB only a decade prior lost a world series to a work stoppage. Now, MLB locks them out the moment the CBA expires just to control the timing.. I believe the NHL learned some lessons from this. I also believe that unlike other major sports, The NHL owners showed they have the stomach to sit out the entire year to get what they want. Sadly, that not talking til the gun is at the head is not unique to sports even. I've seen it with other unionized businesses.. Teachers unions as well. If MLB had done this in '82, MLB would have had a much different system today. The NHL also does not have the deep flowing revenue streams that the other major sports have either. Which may be why they did have the stomach for sitting out.
That lockout was torture for me because I had just started watching hockey at the end of 2003,and was hooked right away,(no pun intended)!
Edit: I also always thought that the NBA,who was facing the same scenario the following year, made the NHL look bad, because of how quick they got their deal done. Wasn't long after that, that the NHL and PA made their agreement. Could be wrong though!
Shannon has a sense of humor.
If the season happened in 2005 the cup finals would’ve been flames vs flyers or flames vs senators Canadian cup finals
That lockout destroyed hockey forever!
Vinny Damphousse had signed with Colorado but never came back, I think it was a one season contract only. Also, Valeri Bure had signed with LA but it must run in the family, his knees were also failing him, among other issues.Some Russian players of quality went back to the Russian Superliga (I think it wasn't named KHL yet) and remained there, I liked Alexander Frolov a bunch but the lockout got us to lose him, among others, I would always trade to get him on NHL 2005 if I was creating a season with a non top 5 team....that game, NHL 2005 on PC and at a friend's house on PS2 was the one thing that saved us who were big fans from going nuts. Spangler Cup tournaments didn't really do it for me. NHL 2005 also, ironically one of the best versions of the game, especially on PC, playing against the computer was always one hell of a challenge when playing at the Advanced difficulty level, it had started with the previous game, '04, where difficulty and realism increased and a lot of the arcade-style stuff was gone, I remember me and my best friend who would make seasons and play a period each against the computer...the AI had been revamped A LOT, and we were frustrated, we were actually losing games, a lot at first, same with '05, not as dramatic. But anyways, those tournaments where you picked the guy with the best overall in a team and said friend had the gizmo so that one could plug in 4 gamepads on the ps2 made for some pretty entertaining nights. But for those who don't play NHL, it must have been extremely more frustrating. I too was wondering why negotiations were dead in freaking october, I never blamed Bettman personally, I blamed Goodenow for selling the players an unrealistic plan where they would come out on top...
The biggest insult, y'know those THANK YOU FANS writings on the ice at the beginning of the 05-06 season, the first team to get rid of em was Montreal Canadiens, well, management. That felt like "we knew you'd all come back crawling and not make a peep about the 500 dollar seats to be in 2 or 3 front rows", very insulting to the fans whom they didn't feel like thanking all that much for long. Some teams had that message on their ice for the entire season!
I’m not sure if you’ve done a video on this yet but would you do a ranking of every cup final since 2000? I think that’d be a sweet video
I was one of those fans that followed through with my threat of not watching the nhl cause of this lockout...
Took 12 years to get me back into the nhl product
I stopped following hockey after this lockout. I was a student struggling to pay my bills and it just pissed me off to watch these overpaid entertainers have a lockout from playing a game for millions of dollars.
16:20 I didn't watch an NHL game for at least 12 years, and still don't pay for any games I do watch which are rare.
One of the happiest times, one of the saddest times in my sports life. In June the Tampa Bay Lightning won the Stanley Cup, proving that hockey belonged in Florida. Being a Panthers fan that meant respect for Florida. In October the Red Sox swept the St. Louis Cardinals for the first World Series in my lifetime. And then the NHL lockout!!!
I truly believed Detroit and Toronto were gonna be in the finals that year.
This lockout was a necessary evil. Gary Bettman defeated Bob Goodenow, got the salary cap and that is why he is still commissioner, two decades later.
The owners failed to get a cap in 1994-95 and that's why things spiralled right out of control. By 2004, two-thirds of the teams were losing money and teams like the Buffalo Sabres could easily have folded. The owners got the cap to stabilize the game.
The cap was needed because the NHL has always been piss poor in marketing the game at pro level. That's why it's always been and always will be the red-headed step sibbling compared to everyother major pro sport in North America. Thanks to Messi, MLS is on the cusp of overtaking the NHL.
@@PeterCPRail8748 The cap was needed because players' salaries needed to be brought under control. Spendthrift teams like the St. Louis Blues were screwing up the League-wide salary scale.
Trying to make ice hockey mainstream in regions where even a trace of snowfall causes a state of emergency is delusional and foolhardy.
I think you're giving Messi way too much credit. Soccer is the undisputed global game. Ice hockey is a regional sport and global warming can only hinder its geographical strongholds.
Even in Canada, where the demographics are changing rapidly, more kids are registered in soccer than in hockey.
I know this isn't a popular opinion and I understand why. But my local team in Sweden was Frölunda and their lineup was arguably the best in the world that year. Lundqvist showed what he was able to do against top players. We had players with roots around Frölunda (Alfredsson, PJ Axelsson) along with veterans who melded very well with the team setup.
Basically our first line became partly our third line that year and they played like a second second line. The nostalgia for me is just huge around that team.
I understand it from the leagues perspective. What you have to understand the owners are NOT the league. And the problem was that the rich owners just wasn't interested in listening to the not so wealthy owners and there was not rule making it possible for the league to force some owners to spend less. All this meant is that some teams had to spend more money than they really could. BUT the alternative was to never field a competitive team/fold the team and have a league where 10 teams could win and the rest are just fillers with no chance to win.
If not for the salary cap some owners would spend insane amounts even today making the league very uneven. What it comes down to is that the owners don't give a crap about the other owners and want to be the team that beat the other team. Doesn't matter if they sit on the board of governors, they care about their OWN teams, not the health of other teams=the league.
I didn't return to the NHL till basically the 05-06 playoffs. It was only because the Sabres were surprisingly good. Idk if I ever watch an NHL game again without that.
For the Swedish league SHL it was the greatest season of all time!
This was fully on the players, they were morons. Cap was far less than it would have been if they agreed in Sept 2004, than July 2005. The owners had also just recently added 4 teams and got expansion money from that. They had spent 10 years prepping to get the cap. It has greatly benefited the majority of players. The players that have taken the biggest hit have been star players. The majority of players on the teams have made great money, as compared to if there was no cap they would have to take less, because stars would be taking up most of the teams budget. NHL has the second highest league minimum between the big 4 sports. That cap has made all teams competitive and enabled expansion and also to have a league that grosses almost 7 billion. The salary cap in year 1 was $39 million. Today we are almost at 90 million, It has grown and the players are making great money overall!
Don't forget the Avs were looking to come back after their 03/04 season was a bust and they were looking for blood... until the lockout broke the team up
"The Hockey Gods really don't like Ottawa very much."
Looking at the new PWHL logos and names, yeah this is still true. Ottawa f-ed that one up bad.
Video on your fav players who didn't come back because of the cap? Or other business reasons other than going overseas or whatnot?
At least when the MLB had their nasty bust up in the 90s, while the ‘94 WS was canceled, which will forever be a major black eye on the sport, it at least happened in the middle of the season, and spilled into the 1995 season (only 144 games were played), so an entire season wasn’t canceled. Good thing the lockout didn’t bleed into the 2022 season
Scoring was way down this season.
Another reason why ESPN backed out of its TV deal with the NHL in addition to the lockout was because around the same time, the NBA (who ESPN also had a TV deal with) offered ESPN more games to air in time slots that would have been filled by the NHL especially during the playoffs. As a result, the majority of that season's NBA playoffs were aired on ESPN/ABC which angered Turner Sports executives big time as TNT aired significantly fewer NBA games. Turner Sports was so angry at David Stern (the NBA Commissioner) that they threatened to back out of their contract & do a deal with the NHL once the lockout was over. The NBA ultimately had to give TNT more games as well as exclusive rights for the All Star Game in order to keep them as a TV partner. It wouldn't be until a few years ago that the NHL would be aired on TNT. As for the NBA, this upcoming season is likely the last on TNT as the NBA will be moving those games to Amazon & NBC (and keeping ESPN) for 2025/26 & beyond.
This was a blessing in disguise for my Blackhawks, this was a down period for them in franchise history, it saved them from another miserable season
Bettman had the look of a killer
This was one of the most exciting times for the NHL. With Crosby and Ovi set to takeoff, which quickly turned into one of the most disappointing seasons ever.
Greed and hubris from all sides.
I would have given the Stanley Cup to the AHL champions which were the Philadelphia Phantoms. This should be Philadephia's third Stanley cup. We can't have that.
That was the end of players control of salaries. The surrender on the salary cap ended this, but the players were still thinking (?)they were going to get what they deserved.
If the 04-05 season had went played, and the Thrashers indeed made the Stanley Cup Playoffs, there could've been a chance the Thrashers would still be in Atlanta, and the Coyotes would've moved back to Winnipeg following their bankruptcy. But then again, the Thrashers were in their first year under Atlanta Spirit's ownership, who wanted to get rid of them almost as soon as they had acquired the hockey club, because ASG wanted 50+ open dates for concerts at Philips Arena.
Yep, Binghamton Senators! (My hometown!) That team was stacked: Emery, Spezza, Vermette... And they blew it in the AHL playoffs!
I am VERY concerned that the next CBA isn't being hammered out and negotiated. Tick tick tick....
Hi Shannon !...
So basically Gary Bettman saved the NHL. Since a lot of teams were losing money with no cap who knows what would have happened.
The NHL and MLB are the only 2 of the 4 major sports to have no champions for a season.
"Best season ever" // all Swedish hockey fans
That lockout that wiped out that season was necessary for the NHL well-being.
All the teams should call their retired players who was on contract in the 2004-05 season to have a mini tournament and finally crown the 2005 stanley cup champion.
If only that season actually got played, becase the Canadian Stanley Cup droughtay very well have ended in 2005, with Ottawa winning over Detroit in a close seven game series, led by Dominik Hasek, who gets one over his former team.
Imagine if the fans could negotiate in CBAs. What would the top priority be: getting rid of uniform ads and digital boards?
Kicking Vegas out
NGL I stopped watching until about 2008. Crosby and Ovie got me back in.
The league owes the world to those two. If it weren’t for the lockouts and Covid, Ovie would’ve probably been passed Gretzky by now.
The lightning had a great team and thought they could go back to back champions. The lockout happened and the season gone. The next year the team was dismantled.
If there was a season that year. I think the Stanley Cup finals would've been Detroit Red Wings vs New Jersey Devils.
I think HC Davos appreciated Jumbo Joe coming across to Switzerland. That's where he met his wife and he's kept ties to that league and that team. He went back and trained with them most offseasons, returned there in the other lockout and brought a few teammates with him. He also participated in the Spengler Cup for Davos and is attached to the Spengler Cup permanently now.
He should've had a permament engraving on the Stanley Cup though. If it wasn't for that full lockout he could've had it in 2005 with San Jose. I'm very bitter about it, and I'll still be bitter about it until the day I die.
@@zanemarte9877 Hopefully he gets it in like 2029 as a member of the Sharks' front office or coaching staff.
the downstream effects are still being felt to this day, and it's not even about the off-ice stuff. Ovechkin probably already breaks Gretzky's goal record by now if we don't lose 116 games between his true rookie season and the 12-13 lockout. some borderline HoF players have another season to bolster their resumes. Pittsburgh may still have been bad, but who knows if they win the lottery to pick him in 2005 if there is an actual season.
You know it's not recent when Ottawa was at least a playoff team
I’ll never forgive this lockout for taking away Ovi’s true rookie season
Sweden's Elitserien became like the mini-NHL in 2004/2005 lock-out season. So much top NHL tallent in various teams that was not Swedes.
Swizz league and Russia was also mini NHL leagues that year as well.
But there was a lot of great stars that did not play like; Mario Lemieux, Paul Kariya, Teemu Sellanne with others took the time for recovering injuries, while Mats Sundin,
Scott Niedermayer, Martin Brodeur, Dominik Hasek, Brett Hull and many veterans just took a break.
If that lockout would have been avoided, Ovechkin would already have broken Gretzky's goal record.
Two interesting notes, the salary cap that was agreed to in July was 39 million dollars, the cap the NHL proposed to save the season was 42 million dollars, Bob Goodenow really fumbled the bag with that. Second, the agreement ESPN had with the NHL for the 04-05 season was terrible for the league, it cut the rights fee in half ( 120 million per year for 5 years ( 600 million total), to 60 million dollars as a one-year deal with an option) and the regular season schedule was exclusively on ESPN2 ( I would assume most playoff games were also on ESPN2. Also, ESPN as a result of fewer games canceled the popular NHL2Night show ( John Buccigross, Ray Ferraro, and Barry Melrose were the hosts ) so the league was getting no money and no promotion from ESPN. Comcast ended up giving the NHL more money and more promotion/involvement not to mention it shared the same talent and eventually production as NBC. It is still an interesting question I think would the NHL have been better off being throwaway content on ESPN2 post-lockout than getting the respect/involvement that OLN/Versus/NBCSN gave the league ( The original NBC contract was a separate deal from Comcast, albeit it was a revenue sharing deal, but they would have had the NHL whether games aired on ESPN or OLN).
Are you kidding? Disney/ABC/ESPN 'has survived' just fine in the 17 years they didn't cover hockey. And while it seemed stupid to have a hockey game in an arena on the Outdoor Life Network, NBC did a great job of producing the games as if it meant something. And with Pierre McGuire, there was a huge respect for the entire community of hockey (with all the random shout outs during games).
@@HHSGDFootballJPD Exactly what I thought, NBC gave the NHL the respect, promotion, and validity a major league needs and deserves. As for ESPN once they got the NBA contract they plain acted like they didn't need hockey which only alienated hockey fans to a point of permanent dislike towards ESPN I think ( even with the current contract)
About 8 years ago I bought NHL 2k5 for the original xbox for some "retro gaming" fun. Did a franchise as the Thrashers and won the cup in Year 1. Since then I've always said for no reason at all that 2004-05 was the Thrashers year and they were robbed.
P.S. talk about a gut punch for Montréal. The lockout and the Expos move all at once
Sadly the boards we used back then no longer exist so I can't go back and check for sure, but I feel like in Nashville it was very Pro-owners. Part of that was because we were just coming off the sale, the Weber contract, and really were wondering if this thing was going to make it long term. We felt at the time we would probably never be competitive with other teams without a cap.
I think in the end it worked out pretty well, its got its warts, but we know the owners and GM's can't help themselves, and as much as it might have capped players earnings it also probably put the league in a safer long term situation.
Sadly though for the players they pretty much tossed out any future leverage. They should have gotten far more benefits out of than they did, and the odds of them being able to get those now are probably slim to none.
if you take into account games missed via lockout and g per game/ assist per game averages ovechkin would be very close to passing gretzky right now if no lockouts ever occured in hockey.
Number 1 to Pittsburgh was a sop to Lemieux.