4 Reasons to Pay Off Debt on Your Rental Properties
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- Опубліковано 8 чер 2024
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🎙️ Episode 293 - Financial gurus may proclaim that paying off debt on your rental properties is a cardinal sin, but you'll discover a different perspective. Join Coach and Erion Shehaj as they challenge the conventional wisdom and reveal how paying off debt can actually help you take control of your portfolio's true potential. Think: Are you serving your portfolio, or is it serving you?
📄 Show Notes: www.coachcarson.com/whypayoff...
🎬 Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro
3:53 - Investor Journey breakdown
16:08 - Fit debt into your long-term
23:01 - How to use debt safely
30:45 - Pay off debt?
45:21 - Use these tools to pay off debt
53:22 - 4 real reasons to pay off debt
1:03:31 - Why be happy in 2023?
1:10:31 - Thought experiment
🔗 Some of Chad's favorite articles & videos from the Investing Architect:
• An Immigrant’s Impressions on Opportunity and Real Estate Investing in America:
www.biggerpockets.com/blog/20...
• The Freedom Formula: How to turn $244,000 into $1.4M in 14 years:
investingarchitect.com/freedo...
🔗 Connect with Erion Shehaj:
• Website: investingarchitect.com/
• Instagram: / investingarchitect
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Great Interview “you are not an asset manager, you are a life manager” love that quote. Thanks Coach
That was a great quote from Erion! Thanks for watching.
Moneys need a destination, immediately upon arrival… if not we spend it on more than likely on unnecessary things.. straight gems
Excellent, spot on interview! "Peace of Mind", "Peaceful Sleep", "Debt-free Living" are concepts that aren't discussed enough. Only the people (like Dave Ramsey & his wife) who know the feelings & emotions behind those concepts can express the true meaning of having less worry and stress in your life over debts, losses and financial surprises, especially when you pass 45yrs old.
Chad's wife's gut check of having a free & clear home is another concept that mostly women can relate to when times get bumpy. Kudos to his wife for making that call!
True peace of mind is when you have sufficient cash flow & reserves, no debts to worry about and your assets are working for you. It's not just about numbers on paper but about what you feel deep down inside daily!
Look forward to reading your book! Cheers!
Thanks for the thoughtful reply, Marlene! I appreciated (and still appreciate) my wife's gut check. Whoever your partner is, that's one benefit of being able to learn from one another and make decisions together.
And agree 100% - those truly valuable states like peace of mind aren't easily quantifiable. They're a little fuzzy and different for everyone. Yet, they're also the most important thing!
What a great interview.. full of common sense thoughts. Also, I love the down-to-earth vibe of both of them, and their humbleness (in a field full of unbearable know-it-alls…).
I’m 53 and precisely debating whether to use the cash flow to keep investing or make extra payments to the rentals’ mortgages, and get them paid off in the next 7-8 years.
Love the idea of being in my early 60s and getting cash flow from properties owned free and clear. Personally, I think our path is through the middle: pay off a couple of properties, and leverage the rest. Fortunately, for now, we don’t have to rely on the cash flow to keep investing, as our DTI is pretty low. However, as in their turkey joke, that could change at any time.
Thank you for sharing this exchange, it was great..
Love, love this guest. It impressed me the first time Chad got him and today confirmed that impression. His demeanor, his down-to-earth approach, zero ego (Chad is the same)… their rationale totally lines up with what my wife and I are trying to do (small investors of B+ properties; we started the journey when we turned 50…). Bring him another time, Chad.
Thanks for the feedback! Erion is a good friend and one of my favorite people to talk investing with. He'll be back!
Thank you! Finally someone who looks at this the way I do.
Great session, Chad. I’m an “ender” now that I’m retired. The small portfolio is on autopilot an functioning very well. Real estate and stocks, mutual funds, and ETF’s provide the income. Minimal leverage on the real estate at this point. Erion is a wise man…lots of nuggets of wisdom in his comments. And, thanks for your instruction, coaching, and wisdom along my journey.
Thanks Skeeter! And congrats on reaching your own financial goals. It was an honor to help you along the way.
All my 8 rentals were purchased cash free and clear starting 2010 to 2018 before the huge cost increase. Highest paid was about $60k. Couple FHA and couple auction.
How long did it take you to make a profit?
Incredible interview and knowledge/ perspective sharing . Much appreciated !
Glad you enjoyed it! thanks for watching!
Excellent interview. Nice flow and great perspectives.
This was very informative. Thank you for sharing your real estate strategies!
Pure gold. Thank you
Wow! This is awesome stuff, thank you for the nuanced chat on the subject
Great discussion!
This episode is filled with tons of golden nuggets! Great interview and he needs to come back more often!!!
Noted! I'll have him back soon.
Fantastic, down to earth content-no hype thank you
Another great interview Coach! Thanks so much. Enjoyed the discussions on phases and so much other gold nuggets!
Glad you liked it Charles! Thanks for watching.
Love this interview! Thank you!
Glad to hear it. Thanks for watching!
I love the interview! Thank you for that Coach
Glad you liked it! Thanks for watching.
Thank you!
Good show many good points! Thx
Excellent information. Thank you. Can't wait for the book!
Thank you for watching! And for your support with the book.
Me too. Patiently waiting
ALL TRUE! Can’t wait for the book!
thanks for the support on the book, Dean!
Great discussion explaining exactly why to make a counterintuitive decision that is in alignment with personal goal.
Definitely counterintuitive for most real estate investors! Thanks for watching.
Brilliant interview, so so wise.
Thank you!
Your investments should serve your life. Very informative interview, Thank You Coach
thanks for watching Lulu!
Love this....helps me make
Life easier
glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching.
I can't wait to buy the book!
Great interview
Lot of information
Thanks for watching!
Love this discussion. So down to earth and practical.
Another math equation I do that might be helpful. There is a tipping point where the mortgage payment will cross over the equity threshold where you will actually get a better return on your money by paying off the mortgage vs buying another property.
For example a $200k mortgage and your payment is $1666 per month, you would get basically a 10% return by paying it off. At $250k loan it’s only a 8% return to pay off etc.
Obviously it’s more complex than that but I like to look at it through this lens sometimes when I’m working to pay off properties or buy more.
Thanks for sharing! I started doing that same thing. I had several older and higher interest loans where I could get a 12 or 13% cash on cash return by paying them off. Made a lot of sense.
Love this concept! We bought a foreclosure cash & created a padsplit. Helps people in this affordable housing crisis & cashflows $8k per month. “Invest in what you understand”
Great videos and philosophy on life/investing...we have been doing this recently as well. Very freeing
It really is!
Smart guy.
Excellent interview, The country i am living in as negative cash flow, how do i over come this situation.
Do you have any suggestions for this market.
Can you a video that is basically a tutorial on how you sourced and financed your first 5-10 deals? Maybe call it 'How I did it."
Would be interested to know Chad’s thoughts on paying down properties by using recasts rather than simply paying additional principal. It seems to me this might be a faster way to increase cash flow without having to wait for a property to be paid off in full?
“Your investment should serve your life”
that's the most important metric!
Very nice interview! These questions and your book hit me right where I am at in my investment journey! One question I want to pose-can you come up with a spectrum of total portfolio LTV % for different phases of an investors career. Ie when beginning-and the different phases. Obviously some of this is personal, local and market cyclical - but having a guide would definitely help me evaluate where I Am at compared to others as well as longer term strategy and decisions. Like your guest said-it isn’t always one or the other but it may change based on factors -but that overAll LTV % to shoot for could be a guide. Thanks coach!😊
@@timmartin4442 I'll think about this more for the future to share. But when you start, 70-80% LTV is normal.
After 5 to 10 years of growth, 50-60% is not abnormal as prices grow and debt pays down.
I am about 15-20% now.
But keep in mind that overall LTV doesn't have to be same as per property. If portfolio is 40%, would be better to have some at 0% and others at 80%. That'll increase cash flow and reduce risk.
I'll talk about this more in the book!
@@CoachChadCarson The only place I have seen that had anything on this was Gary Keller's Millionaire Real Estate Investor. In his interview of Millionaire investors (this fantastic book had a supplement where he interviewed and highlighted a number of these) I believe he said that across all the investors they had averaged an LTV of their total portfolio at 40%. I like what you are saying, however, in that some properties are at 0 while others may be at 70%. I have done this a bit myself in my properties and have kept them at about 40% remembering that LTV Keller gave. It would be interesting to hear from others, like yourself, on how after building up their assets setting them up with different loans/rates, etc. deployed them at different times of their investing career--why and how.
Great content. How do you deal with the tax implications when you have paid off the mortgage and then since your income has increased, u may pay more in tax. Any thoughts?
Make more money = pay more tax.
That's all the happens when you pay off a mortgage. And we want to make more money, right?
You don't lose any tax benefits. Depreciation is still there, but it can't shelter all your income because you're making more money.
Here's a video where I explain: ua-cam.com/video/7d1iZq0cI9Q/v-deo.html
Coach Carson. Do you know what Oxford Houses are ?
This is packed of deep thinking about what’s your role in what you’re building. It justifies in part my efforts in saving for my 5th one cash, I make 4k/week let’s say. 2 have 3-3.5% 30y with 30%ltv, one 6.3% 15y 50% down and 1 paid off. All properties around 200k. I’m just stuck now with all the high interest alligators and slow pace cash hoarding- sad emoji mood.
Glad it was helpful, Mat. I'm sure that 15y mortgage has a big payment. It does take some time to make progress, but then it waterfalls. Good luck!
@@CoachChadCarson it’s 960$, rent is 1850$, taxes 350$. I put 80k down. Not too bad for a cash flow and equity available should I’d use it or pay it of I guess?
@CoachChadCarson this is a great discussion! What does Enion mean about 2 sets of books legally on a paid off rental property? 50:08
I think he means that the IRS lets you take a loss for depreciation expense (books #1) which means you make less money on paper than the real cash flow (books #2). This just means you pay less in tax on that income.
Exactly! And it’s a beauty 😊
hey coach whats the name of the book you were talking about in this interview and do you have the audio book asa well? i like having both lol
It's the Small and Mighty Investor. Will release on July 20th on BiggerPockets (audio and written) and Amazon and other bookstores August 22nd. If you're on my newsletter at coachcarson.com/newsletter I'll be giving away some preorder bonuses like 1-1 coaching with me.
I like the approach that you leverage at the beginning till you create cash flow that’s enough for your family to survive then you take few years to pay off the properties making the cash flow even bigger
After you’re all set it’s fair game again
You have your pile of paid of properties already so you can leverage again and grow again
Exactly! Nothing stops you from continuing to grow after.
I might have gotten into the real estate game at the wrong time but I have 3 duplexes now at 6.9, 6.9, 7.6% loans. Coc is not as strong but I wanted to get in and start my journey. Would it be beneficial to try and pay a little more on each property or just aim for the highest one first to pay it down. What are your thoughts on getting half paid off on each one?
I recommend saving cash flow until you are ready to pay down debt. Pay the least possible. But then when you are ready pay down one debt at a time instead of a little on all of them. I'd rather have 2 properties with 75% LTV loans and 1 with 0% than 3 with 50%
To clarify your response, do you mean pay the least amount possible each month until I have the entire total to pay for one property ? Thanks Coach
Yes that’s what he is saying
Hey Coach, if you don't mind I need you to coach me up. I am very debt adverse, so buying a propertie(s) with debt scares me. I've always hated debt and I started following Ramsey back in 2013. If your familiar with the baby steps, my wife and I are on baby step 7. We have $125k liquid to buy with (this doesn't include the emergency fund) but obviously that's not enough to pay in cash. Do you have any ideas how I can change my mindset to allow myself to say it's ok to buy with debt? Thank you.
Go over the Numbers forward and backwards .
Make sure you know what exactly the cash flow will be (in good times and bad).
If you can accept the numbers, do it.
It's mostly a numbers game.
But don't fool yourself, you will need to work at the property and deal with tenants. So add that money and your time into the equation.
First, you could just buy properties for cash in lower price areas, long distance. I interviewed Rich Carey about how he did this: www.coachcarson.com/rental-properties-no-debt/
Second, you could partner with someone. They put up half and you put up half. Split the profits. Split the future costs, if any.
But back to your original question, I have confidence to borrow money because I have confident to rent properties. The better rental you buy, the more likely you can collect rent. And the better you run your numbers, the better you can predict the ups and downs of cash flow.
I'll also add I get confidence by having healthy cash reserves. Start with $5k per property. Can switch to 3 to 6 months of expenses later.
Good luck!
Start by following Robert Q sake instead of Dave Ramsey totally different mindset other peoples money is where you make money. Using that as leverage is how you become rich.
I put $100K in the stock market (ETFs) about 18 months ago and have been down as much as 18% and I am still not back to even. It made me wish I would have paid off debt. So now I'm just paying off debt. I will get one mortgage paid off this year and then I'll have 2 of my 6 properties with no mortgage. And I have 2 properties with mortgages under $100K. I may sell one and pay off all the debt and move to Spain and just pay a property manager to deal with the properties. I feel a little jealous when I see my friends still buying properties, but I know some people see my life and wonder how I got here and think it looks pretty good. Even though I've been telling everyone how I did on UA-cam for 3 years.
I know the FOMO feeling:) Paying off debt can be a grind and isn't as "glorious" as leveraged growth. But it's the hard things that typically pay off more in the end.
Good luck with your own pay downs. I settled on some hybrid scenarios over the years where we paid off some, kept debt on others. So, it doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing either.
@@CoachChadCarson I'm just going 'all in' paying it off. I paid one down to $12K and I'm going to let it pay itself off now and I'm starting on the next one. Basically debt snowball with the smallest ones first.
@@TheRetirementality sounds good! Best of luck. It'll feel good in the end.
If you have any septic tanks in your rentals do what I did and get an effluent filter I got one for about $75 and it keeps condoms q-tips and feminine products out of the leach field also cigarette butts the most it'll cost me is if they're putting garbage down the drain I might have to pump it but then they were busted because all of the stuff gets caught in the effluent filter it can save you ten thousands of dollars
"Land Rich and Cash Poor"
Great content : just to know hope you ll respond to:
why majority of investors in US engage in generate passive income/ positive cash flow through investment in residential properties/houses/duplexes ….. why not to invest in commercial properties and generate income/ rental income from shops where Brands do their businesses : less worries of repairs / vacations/ regular rentals and above all more bigger rentals with less depreciation as in case of houses and bigger Capital Gain with passage of time -- despite all these positives investors prefer to invest in residential houses instead of commercial shops …?? Thanks
Thanks for watching. I like residential rentals because their more conservative and more simple.
Conservative because people always need a place to live. But shops don't always need a commercial rental. I can always lower my rent and fill up a home or apartment. Not a commercial unit.
And they are simple because I understand what people want in their home. Safety. Convenience. Comfort. Amenities. Same things I want. It's harder to understand businesses.
Those are my reasons!
@@CoachChadCarson : thanks dear for ur reply I read ur book follow your blogs regularly- though read score of other on FIRE FI Passive income : I already selected commercial real estate and has been invested in shops meant for rent to high value/ popular Brands for last ten years- ll get my magical FIRE target in coming two years-- my appreciation and gratitude for ur tips and guidance all along …!!
Buy one, pay it off, rent it out, repeat...throw all the rent into the next one...scale up to however big you wanna get with almost 0 risk
That's for sure the low risk way to go!
How long are you planning on living?
@SPaddy-fb7hy I'm 34 now, have 2 properties paid off and closing on my 3rd next month. Plan is to pay that off in 5 years. Total of all 3 properties that would bring in roughly $6,500-7,500/month and my wife and I make roughly 200k gross so idk as long as I live till 70 or so I should be able to leave my son close to 10 properties paid in full, at least that's the plan
I can see the value in paying off debt perhaps later in life, later in the investing career, when a large cash flow has been established. I don't think Ramsey's stance of being 100% opposed to debt is reasonable, wise, or even feasible for many investors, especially if they are early in the game. Debt isn't something to be afraid of, it's just something to be aware of and responsible about.
Agree. I'd just add that it can make sense later in life or later in your wealth building journey if you build good wealth earlier in life. It's a way to reduce risk and take chips off the table
So I need to leverage four to six properties to get the cash flow equivelant to one property that has no mortgage. Why not just cut to the chase and buy property with cash?
You could do that if you have the cash already. But you can use leverage to buy properties earlier and benefit from their profit centers to help you grow more, faster. Then pay them off.
Anyone here bought a mobile home park?
Mobile home rentals provide affordable housing when done well. What do you mean by predatory?
I've not bought any big mobile home parks. We have a small one with three spaces.
@@CoachChadCarson Do you rent just the land or the land and the mobile home?
WRONG ADVICE! Nobody ever makes it in real estate, or business for that matter, without using the leverage that debt provides!
I'd agree most people use leverage to start. But most people who KEEP that wealth over the long run use less leverage over time.
Iforget real estate. Inown a $2M worm farm
Probably a debt free worm farm, right?