Miles Davis Quintet, Karlsruhe 1967. "I Fall in Love Too Easily". A closer look at Tony Williams' ride cymbal technique. Same clip in slow motion: • Tony Williams up-tempo...
Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from Miles' autobiography. "I was missing notes trying to keep up with his(Williams) young ass. He actually told me, 'Miles, why don't you practice?'"
I'm sure at the time all the old school jazz drummers probably thought his playing was a bastardized rendition of decades of tradition. But for the new generation, he opened up a whole new dynamic and vocabulary for drumming
when most drummers use this kind of technique it ends up sounding too weak and bouncy. what's amazing about tony is how he can do it and still use so much wrist, he really lays into that ride
@@horseradish4046 Later on he even switched to a pinky/ring finger fulcrum which is why he was able to generate more power than almost any other player
@@kentbyron7608 There's essentially a debate on which is "more essential", rebound or fast twitch. Do you bounce the stick, losing some control, or do you retain more control through your grip, losing some relaxation. You can have a grip either way on this spectrum; most have it somewhere in the middle. Later on Tony switched to an insanely low fulcrum at his pinky finger at the very bottom of the stick. Of course, being so far from the fulcrum, you get relatively no rebound. However, the stick naturally has more power with such a low fulcrum, meaning you don't have to raise the stick as high to get a full sound. Also, the lower the fulcrum, the more the tip of the stick moves with the same degree of rotation; so you can twitch your muscles instead of using rebound, but don't have to twitch them very far to get good rotation/power. Tony's specific justification for this grip was that he was tired of the sounds not coming out the way he wanted them to, and he wanted more control. There gets to be a point where you are so good, you naturally twitch with the direction of the rebound. So he was simultaneously able to retain full control through his grip AND nearly fully maximize rebound. He really didn't need the extra rebound gained from holding the stick at the fulcrum because his movements were so precise. It isn't about using too much rebound, it is about not relying on rebound. If you rely on it too much, you can't play on surfaces that don't have tension, or extremely uneven surfaces. Not to mention there is no way you can perfectly predict the rebound, even on a singular drum head. The physics is extremely variable. You are also at the mercy of the rebound, basically having to wait for the stick to upstroke. I developed terrible technique by taking this advice the wrong way. You need to practice with rebound and gain a full understanding of rebound before you explore more advanced grips like Tony's. I sort of see the perfect option as integrating the two as much as possible. I will practice focusing on my biomechanical motions, then practice focusing on the rebound of the stick, then try to integrate fluid motion with rebound control. Damn this was long haha. Hope it was useful.
Jeeeesus!!! The only problem I have with Tony Williams is that he is so awesome that I tend to get drawn by everything he does while the other musicians are playing. Solution, repeated listens and then you find out that when playing the Second Quintent you are maybe listening to the best band you ever heard.
@sonsoflegends After Miles, Tony got into Cream and Zeppelin. He got a 24" kick and played some very "Bonham-esque" grooves on the Holdsworth Lifetime records. Influence is abounds. Bonham was also influenced by Tony. Imagine that!
@sebco77 Miles wanted to get Jimmy Hendrix in his band and though both dug him musically Miles always wanted to be on that "rock band", level from a marketing and financial sense. Miles also wanted to play arenas and bring his music to a whole different audience. My point to Asymmatrix is TW's "training" on the drums lends itself to his teachers and people he said he emulated (Alan Dawson, Roy Haynes, etc.) none of whom are rock drummers. That doesn't mean TW didn't like rock music.
Davis said in his autobiography that Tony Williams was the centre that the bands sound revolved around. I seen him live with Lifetime with John McLaughlin, Jack Bruce and Larry Young. It was in a small theatre and the walls and the floor were shaking it was so loud. Awesome, but too loud.
@@drummerboy1390 thank you sir for your comment. I did not know this and now makes sense. I was a successful pop/rock session drummer in LA back in the 80/s and early 90’s. Dropped out for the last 25 year and just getting back into drumming, HOWEVER I’m totally smitten by jazz and jazz drumming and now learning this craft. I have zero interest in pop/rock anymore :-) I’m having great fun learning this genre.
Backline/rental for this concert, probably Nickelsilver. Not his Ks. For some reason, he didn't bring any drums or cymbals on this tour. There is an in-depth video series on his gear on yt by now
I just looked at my ride cymbal and thought, “i have been introduced to a way of playing you that i hadn’t known until i watch all 49 seconds of this unforgettable drummer!” Wow!
@@steamboatmcwrigley561 it's cool, the post is old indeed. When I made this snippet originally, I digitized it from a rare VHS cassette, then burned the file to a CD-ROM. I handed it in with my thesis paper that focused on the ride beat, in 2004. A few years later, we discussed the topic on the now defunct cymbalholic.com forum when I had just found out about youtube, so I posted a few of the clips I made. Seeing how much interest there is now, I'll upload the other clips as well, all spots where you can really see a great jazz drummer play the ride - and of course every one of them is playing the whole kit - but they are just as short and lo-fi for today's standards :D
I wonder why Tony Williams almost never (or no videos/recording that I've seen after of him when he gets older) use this 5 stroke technique later throughout his life? Who knows why, its an incredible technique with much application so I wonder why he never, if ever used it.
@@Distractionalist exactly, thanks for the clarification. Maybe I should've have been more specific and stated the 5 stroke technique "on the ride cymbal," though if one watched the video one would have seen that Tony is using a specific hand technique to play the 5 stroke roll, especially when the title of the video is "Tony Williams playing the ride cymbal."
Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from Miles' autobiography. "I was missing notes trying to keep up with his(Williams) young ass. He actually told me, 'Miles, why don't you practice?'"
The man was 18, 19 when Miles Davis picked him up ! How insane
@@nikkoyamada9958 Yes, 17
Herbie was around that age when Miles picked him up too I think. Absolutely nuts
@@breezyillo2101 Herbie was 22
@@jibsmokestack1 Ohhh, yeah you right
Hihat on all 4s! The best.
I'm sure at the time all the old school jazz drummers probably thought his playing was a bastardized rendition of decades of tradition. But for the new generation, he opened up a whole new dynamic and vocabulary for drumming
@@skateforzero357 Tony was my age doing new things for the genre, what a legend he was
he missed one
@@skateforzero357 Playing Hi-Hat on every quarter note was actually pretty common for drummers of the 30s/40s, especially when soloing.
when most drummers use this kind of technique it ends up sounding too weak and bouncy. what's amazing about tony is how he can do it and still use so much wrist, he really lays into that ride
He was a master in not relying on rebound, yet still using it to its fullest potential.
he's holding the stick very low and has much more power that way
@@horseradish4046 Later on he even switched to a pinky/ring finger fulcrum which is why he was able to generate more power than almost any other player
This thread is extremely helpful please keep contributing to it. I’ve never heard of somebody using too much rebound. Intriguing.
@@kentbyron7608 There's essentially a debate on which is "more essential", rebound or fast twitch. Do you bounce the stick, losing some control, or do you retain more control through your grip, losing some relaxation. You can have a grip either way on this spectrum; most have it somewhere in the middle. Later on Tony switched to an insanely low fulcrum at his pinky finger at the very bottom of the stick.
Of course, being so far from the fulcrum, you get relatively no rebound. However, the stick naturally has more power with such a low fulcrum, meaning you don't have to raise the stick as high to get a full sound. Also, the lower the fulcrum, the more the tip of the stick moves with the same degree of rotation; so you can twitch your muscles instead of using rebound, but don't have to twitch them very far to get good rotation/power.
Tony's specific justification for this grip was that he was tired of the sounds not coming out the way he wanted them to, and he wanted more control. There gets to be a point where you are so good, you naturally twitch with the direction of the rebound. So he was simultaneously able to retain full control through his grip AND nearly fully maximize rebound. He really didn't need the extra rebound gained from holding the stick at the fulcrum because his movements were so precise.
It isn't about using too much rebound, it is about not relying on rebound. If you rely on it too much, you can't play on surfaces that don't have tension, or extremely uneven surfaces. Not to mention there is no way you can perfectly predict the rebound, even on a singular drum head. The physics is extremely variable. You are also at the mercy of the rebound, basically having to wait for the stick to upstroke. I developed terrible technique by taking this advice the wrong way. You need to practice with rebound and gain a full understanding of rebound before you explore more advanced grips like Tony's.
I sort of see the perfect option as integrating the two as much as possible. I will practice focusing on my biomechanical motions, then practice focusing on the rebound of the stick, then try to integrate fluid motion with rebound control. Damn this was long haha. Hope it was useful.
It's actually "Tony Williams, 16 years old, plays the ride"
He was 22 here. He was born in 1945.
@@andrew7taylor that's incredible
It's actually "Tony Williams, 3 years old, plays the ride"
It’s actually “Tony Williams, yet to be born, plays the ride”
It's actually "Tony Williams: born to ride"
The bass drum & ride syncopation is just phenomenal.
* JK Simmons, with tears in his eyes* My... my tempo...
At long last!! No need to turn the cymbal into a missile lol.
Jeeeesus!!! The only problem I have with Tony Williams is that he is so awesome that I tend to get drawn by everything he does while the other musicians are playing. Solution, repeated listens and then you find out that when playing the Second Quintent you are maybe listening to the best band you ever heard.
@sonsoflegends After Miles, Tony got into Cream and Zeppelin. He got a 24" kick and played some very "Bonham-esque" grooves on the Holdsworth Lifetime records. Influence is abounds. Bonham was also influenced by Tony. Imagine that!
Game recognizes game...
@@Delsbo Here ya go:
ua-cam.com/video/OnV6o_KDMHY/v-deo.html
TW Zep. I love Zep, and I love Lifetime.
@@citydrums7525 If you listen to what Jimmy Page was doing with Dazed and Confused by 1973, there is definitely an Emergency! influence there.
What does “influence is abounds” mean, we wonders??🧐🧐🤦♂️🤡
Try again, genius.
@@spanqueluv9er why are you so rude to people? Does it make you feel big?
He was to drums what Hendrix was to guitar. Totally from another planet
👍🏾👍🏾
Wow!
Tony Williams is the Mozart of the drums. Just on a whole other musical level to just about every other drummer who ever lived.
That’s a terrible comparison.🤡
yeah... i don't think Mozart was really on a whole other musical level. I'd probably say Bach or something
@@austinjim9082 Mozart was on a different level than almost any other composer, genius. Try again.
Mozart was shit
@@dixienormus6941 true
Get out of the way Wayne. I’m trying to watch.
The Drop Catch ride cymbal technique is great if you dedicate yourself enough to master it. Then you can spangalang all night.
_spangalang_
Love the term
Title: Tony makes it sound like Miles is playing a melody
@Tim Watson that's correct
Hands are dancing--beautiful--effortless--a great display of Aesthetics and what the human body can do!
The man was a monster! And the master of limb separation!!!!!
@sebco77 Miles wanted to get Jimmy Hendrix in his band and though both dug him musically Miles always wanted to be on that "rock band", level from a marketing and financial sense. Miles also wanted to play arenas and bring his music to a whole different audience. My point to Asymmatrix is TW's "training" on the drums lends itself to his teachers and people he said he emulated (Alan Dawson, Roy Haynes, etc.) none of whom are rock drummers. That doesn't mean TW didn't like rock music.
More like “Tony Williams plays drums for Miles Davis”. He was right there with him. That’s what a good bandleader can inspire.
Tony was a freak! Love this guy!
Wow!!! This fingers are amazing!!!! ding ga ding ding ding Ding ga ding!!!! perfect!!!
Tony Williams tearing it up
Hey who are those cats playing alongside Tony Williams?.
Hey Wayne, MOVE! i cant see Tony!
Watch this at half speed. It's just unbelievable how much control he had
Unfortunately Mr Shorter pushed his heavenly body right into the way. 😁
I’m a 60-year-old drummer and STILL trying to figure out some of Tony’s moves at age 20 😜
Is Tony using a brush on his left hand?
Nop, a black stick
tonys plaiyng on ginger bread boy is awesome!!!
interesting how he plays it from a very low angle
Tony Williams IS the ride cymbal! (or even WAS)
Many amazing and great Drummers. Only ONE Tony Williams.
He's holding a drumstick in his right hand, and brushes in his left (with them pulled-in, mostly). I've never seen that done, sounds great.
If you watch the whole concert closely, you'll notice it's a broken black stick!
Tony Williams ride skills are probably the pinnacle, but Paul Wertico is also a beast on the ride.
Rest his soul
HAHAHAHAHA love that comment!! Soooo true! Man but did you see when Shorter wasn't there, how effortless Tony made it seem? Man is beyond words!
HOLY CRAP
Sick.
L'unique Tony Williams. Fabuleux.
I was feeling good about my drum capabilities until I watched this video
Sounds like a Paiste... IMHO
Is that mayor Lightfoot on trumpet?
You know it's hard , when they make look easy !!!
Hell yeah 15 years this video waited for me to show up. HYPE
Thats how you play ride cymbal,in any kind of music ... even black Sabbath
Why do the sticks look so...long
man i could be a great jazz drummer it must be easy
The fucking best.
RIP MY BROTHER
WE ARE STILL TRYING TO FIGURE YOU OUT!
GOD HAS ALL OF THE BEST DRUMMERS
was waiting to hear the lick
Why does he hold his right stick near the butt end?
We lost Tony way too early!
For my ears it was a signature sound.
They all are high as hell
That's Mr. T
The title really says it all!
Great.
es imposible!!!
gaaaaaaawd daaaaaaamn
♥️✨♥️✨♥️
😀🌱🌸💛
🌷💙🌱😀
I’m surprised Miles didn’t object to Tony playing so much and possibly walking on a few note from Miles
Davis said in his autobiography that Tony Williams was the centre that the bands sound revolved around.
I seen him live with Lifetime with John McLaughlin, Jack Bruce and Larry Young. It was in a small theatre and the walls and the floor were shaking it was so loud. Awesome, but too loud.
@@drummerboy1390 thank you sir for your comment. I did not know this and now makes sense. I was a successful pop/rock session drummer in LA back in the 80/s and early 90’s. Dropped out for the last 25 year and just getting back into drumming, HOWEVER I’m totally smitten by jazz and jazz drumming and now learning this craft. I have zero interest in pop/rock anymore :-) I’m having great fun learning this genre.
Love young tony *
Effortless.
that's a super ride cymbal
Backline/rental for this concert, probably Nickelsilver. Not his Ks. For some reason, he didn't bring any drums or cymbals on this tour. There is an in-depth video series on his gear on yt by now
Mozart on drums, great choice.
🤡
That is just mental. has anyone else used such an agressive ride cynmbal technique?
^*cymbal, not cynmbal, and of course they have.🤦♂️
Drop/catch!
I just looked at my ride cymbal and thought, “i have been introduced to a way of playing you that i hadn’t known until i watch all 49 seconds of this unforgettable drummer!”
Wow!
ride sounds like the bell of a powerful steaming freight train lol
The hi hat is right in lock with Ron - not a millisecond ahead or behind - amazing!!!
9/10 Dentists discourage copying the posture of most musicians depicted in this video
The drums were the only part of this that didn't sound disorienting
Am I wrong in saying that it sounds like Miles can't keep up with Tony? There seems to be a disconnect with Tony's incredible rhythm.
Yes, you’re wrong.🤦♂️🤡
Yes, he uses the ride. Sure, this performance is great, but this post is garbage.
Relax dude. This was posted 15 years ago in 2006 when youtube had only been around for a year.
@@absoluteunit8628 damn man, I'm sorry. My drunk ass needed to be called out
@@steamboatmcwrigley561 it's cool, the post is old indeed. When I made this snippet originally, I digitized it from a rare VHS cassette, then burned the file to a CD-ROM. I handed it in with my thesis paper that focused on the ride beat, in 2004. A few years later, we discussed the topic on the now defunct cymbalholic.com forum when I had just found out about youtube, so I posted a few of the clips I made. Seeing how much interest there is now, I'll upload the other clips as well, all spots where you can really see a great jazz drummer play the ride - and of course every one of them is playing the whole kit - but they are just as short and lo-fi for today's standards :D
I wonder why Tony Williams almost never (or no videos/recording that I've seen after of him when he gets older) use this 5 stroke technique later throughout his life? Who knows why, its an incredible technique with much application so I wonder why he never, if ever used it.
@@spanqueluv9er nah I think he's referring to Tony playing groupings of 5 on the ride
@@Distractionalist exactly, thanks for the clarification. Maybe I should've have been more specific and stated the 5 stroke technique "on the ride cymbal," though if one watched the video one would have seen that Tony is using a specific hand technique to play the 5 stroke roll, especially when the title of the video is "Tony Williams playing the ride cymbal."