Assuming you equalize souls and vestiges, you could also argue that Shigaraki has some form of soul manipulation resistance since in chapter 379 he prevents the AFO consciousness from overwriting his mind and body, and even uses the explicit term “soul” when describing himself doing it
that doesn't mean he can negate idle transfiguration just because he prevents all for one from overwriting his consciousness... Idle transfiguration shapes a soul regardless of how you feel or what you try to do. It's like sculpting an inanimate pile of clay, that clay can't do anything but sit there and be sculpted.
Geto being able to somewhat resist Kenjaku’s control over his body but not being capable of resisting Mahito’s idle transfiguration as far as we know kinda debunks that argument. In JJK there are multiple incidents where the ability to overpower or resist somebody’s consciousness from taking over your body has not equated to the ability to resist or negate idle transfiguration. Sukuna who was completely unfazed by Mahito’s idle transfiguration and was able to casually cause severe damage to Mahito’s soul was unable to ever overpower or put up a fight against Yuji’s control over his body. Yuji who can only harm Mahito’s soul because he became a vessel for Sukuna is also heavily implied by Mahito to not be the reason why he can’t use idle transfiguration on Yuji. Sukuna is why Mahito can’t use his CT on Yuji. So Yuji isn’t immune to Idle Transfiguration but can casually resist Sukuna’s control, who was immune to Idle Transfiguration which Yuji isn’t immune to. And Toji who has no soul manipulation, unintentionally entity-crammed a dude’s soul out of it’s own body, but couldn’t resist having his consciousness overwritten by the grandma’s runaway cursed-technique. So in JJK being able to resist your consciousness from being overwritten doesn’t at all equate to having a stronger soul or having soul manipulation resistance. If that were the case, then the power dynamics between Sukuna, Mahito, and Yuji wouldn’t be possible. Since Mahito’s CT would work against Yuji if he didn’t have Sukuna, then Sukuna who completely negated Mahito’s CT should subsequently easily overpower Yuji’s soul and overwrite Yuji’s consciousness, but that isn’t what happened.
Spoilers: As pf the most recent chapters of MHA, if vestiges count as souls, Shiggy can not only see the vestiges of OFA but he straight up snatched Danger Sense guy.
It’s interesting to note this comes down to benefit of the doubt. If we cross verse equalization so saying Shigaraki’s attack count as cursed energy we then have to ask do vestiges count as souls and depending on the answer depends on who wins. In theory but realistically if the answer is yes then Shigaraki wins easily but if it’s no we then have to ask the question does remaking his entire body from nothing take more cursed energy and can Mahito even do that in the first place. After all it’s not like we’ve seen Mahito ever regenerate from his entire being including literal molecules and atoms be turnt to dust. At that point it begs the question of can Mahito come back from nothing? Because that’s what he’d be forced to do upon being dusted by decay. And even if he does come back would he be aware of his surrounding while doing so? Because if not then Shigaraki just sits next to Mahito’s body after the first decay lays his hand on the ground next to Mahito and let chain decay kill Mahito due to curse energy drain since Mahito doesn’t have a brain and isn’t aware enough to stop him. You see it’s much more complicated than people are really giving it credit for and also here another way Shigaraki can win. If Shigaraki dodges the domain expansion due to his speed difference and then shatters it Mahito just dies I think due to being hit by decay without his Cursed Technique active. Sure that final fight is unlikely but it’s still possible. I personally think Shigaraki can win at least 50% of the time with all this stated but considering how many factors left are unsure I’m not willing to say he could win more and the same also goes for Mahito because as much as people say Domain Expansion wins which I agree on it’s honestly not likely it ever gets pulled out in a defining manner because in the ones Shigaraki wins Mahito never truly gets the chance to pull it out especially if they are in character and the ones where Mahito wins domain is fairly redundant since he shouldn’t need it to win at that point aside from making up the speed difference between him and Shigaraki.
Vestiges are souls as seen with All Might's vestige. So Shigaraki can see the shape of his soul. Plus the abysmal stat difference means that Mahito is never touching Shigaraki, especially when you factor in more that 3 sensory quirks. Edit : Chap 411 Shigaraki can outright see ghosts
Thing is, Mahito is a better Fighter and has better tools to make his one shot easier, also if we factor in Yuji's black flash against Hanami, he would be around SoL to low FTL. If you are going to talk about Yuji not being able to dodge Piercing blood, 1. Yuji was airborne when he had to react to it. 2. Yuji was off guard and still reacted to it. so that anti feat wouldn't apply here.
@@jin2821 Is that a joke ? Black Flash isn't speed based. And the Top ranks of MHA barely get to MACH 3. Nayoa at MACH 3 is the fastest curse in JJK and blitzes Maki with Full heavenly restriction who is equal to Toji himself. And JJK's best best AP feat is small city level that Mahito does not scale to. The best you can scale him to is Jogo's maximum meteor at Large town level. Something Shigaraki can achieve by just jumping. Hell just look at the difference in final battle. Gojo vs Sukuna barely destroyed a part of a district. Shigaraki vs Deku has just started and they have already destroyed Shizuka Prefecture and Shiggy is going to destroy mount Fuji.
@@Agent-57 Bro must be on another level of retard. First of all, that mach 3 statement only meant as in travel speed, this is further proven by the fact its been contradicted on multiple occasions, for example, Maki catching a bullet point blank range, which was calced from mach 9 - mach 21. More proof on this is the black hole feat from Kenjaku and Sukuna dodging EM waves, so saying JJK would cap at Mach 3 is blatantly wrong. Next up the scaling, Bro has never heard of AP or DC☠. Gojo has Planetary+ AP via the same black hole feat from Kenjaku, also there are statements from the back of the manga cover stating Sukuna has the power to destroy the world. If say "Oh, thats hax" Hey stupid, Kenjaku had to be putting the same amount of power as black hole to resist it, "Oh Yuki and Tengen were holding it back" Kenjaku out scales both of them EASILY☠. So yes, JJK caps at Planetary+ - Maybe small star level with FTL+ speeds.
Shigaraki would know the shape of his soul, he share souls with AFO. Shigaraki outright says AFO was trying to take over his soul but shiggy hid his origin to overcome it Shiggy could decay OFA world which is stated to be a world of souls(see when Deku unlocks black whip). Shiggy could also sense a curse, AFO was completely blind as stated when he was sent to prison and had multiple quirks allowing him to sense the world and fight all might
Shigaraki was still confused on weather he was AFO or not. There's still Tenko Shimura, but I feel like Shigaraki would still know the shape of his soul if you count that as a soul.
So if mahito can come back for ever because of his curse technique, Shigaraki could use All For One to take his power, making him unable to manipulate his soul and finally be able to kill him
Mahito can run out of CE and Nanami confirms that at that point anybody eben if they cant percieve the soul can merk him, cuz his CT cant work with little CE.
Rody Soul's Quirk (the guy from World Heroes Mission) which is literally called Soul manifests itself as a bird he named Pino and Pino is directly connected to Rody's soul and her actions articulate Rody's true thoughts and feelings so yes MHA do in fact have souls.
Mahito would never even touch Shigaraki, the stats are just to far apart for this to be relatively close and Mahito can’t reform his body if there’s no body to reform lmao.
A lot of people seem to forgot something, Shigaraki has All For One,which has multiple vestiges of the quirks AFO has stolen over the years and recently its shown that the vestiges in AFO can rebel if AFO gets too emotional in a negative way and loses his control of their quirks,so if you use verse equalization and say vestiges are souls , wouldn't this mean Shigaraki's soul can't be affected? Plus Shigaraki literally hid his younger self away which is shown to be another vestige,so without counting the vestiges in AFO, Shigaraki has three souls inside him and a lot more in AFO. A lot of people also ignore that a lot of these characters are smart and quick learners so they can figure out a lot of things quickly if they see it at least once , Shigaraki also has a force field and a laser quirk he never uses for some reason, idk if his regeneration will help much but so far this fight leans towards Shigaraki,Mahito can win though as well in many ways.
No, Shigi soul can still be affected, the only reason Mahito never attempted to one-shot Yuji via soul manip is because of Sukuna, he knows that if he even dares to touch Yuji's soul he will be touching Sukuna's soul aswell and Sukuna would cut him down immediately, so unless were saying AFO or any of the other souls are more advanced with the soul then Mahito, Mahito can still one shot him.
Remember the Non sorcerer's in Shibuya when Gojo popped his Domain. They got affected by IV. Alot ppl like to use Toji and Maki when to hey are outliers, they can literally see cursed spirits but don't have cursed energy themselves... Domains work on regular ppl... Gojo's Domain under Shibuya almost left every non sorcerer down there in a vegetative state.. A domain would work on Shigaraki.
There's another way to kill mahito If you're wear him out enough to were he runs outta cursed energy he can't use his technique anymore meaning he can be hurt and killed by regular blows (Implied by nanami to ino against a weakened mahito)
@@BL00DYMERCURY In fact, Black Flash only makes control over energy more refined, so the expense is much less. For Gojo who can recover cursed energy, less spent is equivalent to more energy recovered
shigaraki fucking destroys mahito, shigaraki with the vestiges are souls, considering all might is a vestige before dying, shigaraki outright suppresses vestiges and overpowers others, and shigaraki is ftl, adding danger sense and how decay negates durability and regeneration along with the added ways of how it can decay a city in SECONDS. mahito has zero ways of defending himself, shigaraki solos him and the verse, including gojo since shigaraki has spacial manipulation quirks and decay when he touches the ground wouldnt count as a physical attack infinity could divide, since gojo needs to be able to not only analyze the threat with his automatic brain, but be aware of it as well, which is how world cleave got past infinity, fucking mirko would solo the verse minus gojo
We’re not talking about perfect cell here, as long as Mahito’s soul is intact he can come back from total annihilation, so long as he doesn’t run out of cursed energy that is.
@@dataroaming7512Wouldn't constantly getting deatroyed by Decay waves and rebuilt bassically put Mahito into an infinite stun lock till his ce depleats?
@@Storm-Cloud That would happen if Mahito was an idiot, but he can freely morph his body and is incredibly difficult to actually tag, he could make a copy of himself and touch Shiggy from behind, that kinda stuff.
Sure, Implying mahito would just stand there and do nothing. As much as i hate that guy, he's one of the most adaptable and high battle IQ in JJK @@Storm-Cloud
Since Mahito is a special disaster cursed spirit , he has a massive pool of cursed energy which means it will be quite hard to deplete Mahitos CE , If shigaraki didn't have a soul he would be cooked , however in round 3 its really a 50 50
Yeah this fight is really up to interpretation in a lot of ways, and since there's no absolute answer to the questions it asks, the winner may vary from person to person interpreting how their powers interact. That said, here's my interpretations and who I think wins: (Recent spoilers discussed below) -First, I think quirk vestiges do count as souls. This is because of All Might having a vestige, despite not having a quirk. And what's more, this vestige changes appearance to look more like All Might if the real one dies, seemingly taking on more of his soul as it leaves the body. -Due to the above ruling, Shigaraki can see Mahito because he can see quirk vestiges. This includes those outside of his own body and even All Might's quirkless vestige. In other words, he can see souls and ghosts, so he should likely see Mahito. -(I have no idea what'd happen if he tried to use the AFO quirk on Mahito though.) -Shigaraki should also know the shape of his soul due to his prolonged internal battle with AFO. That said, due to Mahito's ability interpreting the soul only being connected to the body, several of Shigaraki's moves may not do any real harm to Mahito, including some forms of Decay. It's possible only physical attacks would really have that backing of the soul needed to harm Mahito, meaning anything long-range won't work. -And to continue being nice to Mahito: Shigaraki should have cursed energy naturally for the same reason we'd assume anyone fighting Goku has Ki and anywhere Obi-Wan fights has the Force floating about; if an energy source is everywhere in every mundane corner of the universe or produced by every mundane human & animal, I think it's fair to just assume the average opponent/location of another series has it too if there's no good reason not too. That said, Shigaraki has no more ability to use Cursed energy than the average jjk human, so all this means is that Shigaraki can be targeted by Self Embodiment of Perfection. That said, I think the winner is still Shigaraki. He has more than enough transformation & mutation quirks to deal plenty of physical damage to Mahito, and he's smart enough to figure out their effectiveness. And if it ever came down to a battle of souls due to Mahito touching him or using his Domain, Tomura's soul is far above standard. Bare minimum he's got a few hundred "meat" shield in the quirk vestiges to protect his own soul, and destruction of vestiges hasn't been shown to remove their abilities so it's not like he'd sacrifice quirks to protect himself this way. But also, Tomura's own soul may be dangerous in itself to Mahito; probably not on Sukuna's level, but enough to at least put up a fight if it came to it. Mahito's soul should scale directly to his body for obvious reasons; probably ranging from multi-block to outright City level if you're generous. Tomura's is harder to scale (so prepare for power-scaling nonsense); but since his soul overpowered OFA with his emotions & willpower, we can put the power of his soul higher than 9 above-avarage human souls at the low end, and above the full power of One For All itself (so about island to country level) at the high end. Overall, while there may or may not be ways for Mahito to win, there just looks to be a lot more ways that he loses. It's still up in the air who wins in a battle of souls, but since Shigaraki has a decent chance to kill Mahito before it even comes to that, I've got to give it to him.
Personally I don’t really know about giving ce to everyone…mostly because it needs to be learned. I know it’s mostly in the sport of fairness but logically speaking if a person gets dropped into the jjk universe they won’t even be aware of this new energy source, let alone how to control it.
@@ThelordHayden34 I mean, CE needs to be learned how to _use,_ sure; it's much like Ki in Dragon Ball where a normal human like Videl needs to learn Ki control in order to use cool Ki moves like flight. But that doesn't she didn't have Ki before she learned how to use in in cool ways, and it's the same with CE. Both are naturally occurring energies that appear in all living things (or at least tones with emotions in the case of Cursed Energy). You're right that out-on-universe characters wouldn't know about this energy or how to use it, neither do most normal humans in JJK, but we don't bring this idea up to give the opponents of JJK charterers a new power system or anything, it's to decide if abilities that target a person's Cursed Energy work on them. After all, there are characters in JJk who don't have any CE and thus get some immunity to those CE-targetting attacks. However these characters are rare exceptions who don't have Cursed Energy for a good reason; and normal people who have, but have not learned how to use, Cursed Energy have no such immunity to such CE-targeting abilities. So this is a matter of deciding if an out-of-universe character should fall into the first category or the second by mere virtue of being out-of-universe. To again draw comparisons to Ki: it's a bit like arguing if an out-of-universe fighter dropped into Dragon Ball should have Ki or not; granting all the advantages the absence of Ki gave the Androids if they do not.
@@GiftOfKnowledge-np9vg I mean , I dm know they would have ce. I’m saying the couldn’t use it . Therefore out of verse charters couldn’t harm curses spirits if we put it logically.
If we do cross verse scaling, we should assume that shigarakis quirks run off of cursed energy, otherwise they wouldn’t damage mahito. But it’s interesting because the same mechanism that allows yuji to see souls (via. The result of being a vessel) is arguably the equivalent of hosting multiple quirks and being able to feel the vestiges. AFO has been able to swap consciousness with shiggy multiple times similar to yuji/ sukuna so they function very similarly to a vessel/ curse relationship and AFO has also been able to perceive the vestiges of OFA around deku. If thats not “perception of the soul” idk what is. With that, shiggys powers are so overwhelmingly broken, it makes no sense how mahito can beat him. Even with idle transfiguration, shiggy has displayed the ability to react to / adapt to “soul” damage via. Star & Stripes battle with him. Although he may sustain damage from I.T. he can still change his body to adapt to the damage. Shiggy wins
I know its old but the last senario you say mahitos domain wont have a sure hit on shigaraki because he has no cursed energy by that logic its a win for mahito as some one who has no cursed energy can't hurt him and see him
Will Shigaraki even be able to kill Mahito though? Because you need cursed energy to kill curses and the mha power system is not some kind of magical energy but a part of their genes. This means verse equalization would be pointless because both of these power systems can coexist without contradicting each other and the mha characters would just not have any cursed energy.
I would argue that soul damage surpasses that need, if we assume Shigaraki can do that. Since the "body" (which is cursed energy for Mahito) is shaped after the soul.
2:49 So...A soul? They are souls... just that they're bits ingrained in their quirks. Because how can you explain the stuff in the manga where Afo suffers from his quirks going wild
If we say Shigaraki has no cursed energy then he can't even hurt Mahito since people without cursed energy can't even destroy flatheads. This is why an early yuji with no cursed energy control is given that cursed tool dagger.
shigaraki in his prime has fused with afo and he has ofa which means that he has danger sense which can let him dodge mahito's attacks. Next, we can see that when afo show off his quirks, there's a quirk about souls but we don't see him control one's soul or at least taking over shigaraki's soul, which means that he can protect his souls from attcks
Its quite complicated if mahito can land his domain sure hit it means that shigaraki loses if but if he cant land his domain sure hit it means shigaraki has no CE so he cant even see him (jjk verse is quite complicated to equalize compared to other verses)
well 3 things that we have seen to connect to souls is with the third mha movie where rody has a bird that is basically his soul and then we have vestiges and then tokoyami with dark shadow which is his soul so its kinda weird
Yes because it can't destroy his soul. He can come back from nothing as long as the soul remains and sense he is a curse he has a infinite soul. Unless he can attack his soul with decay wich probably not as yuji has much more than having another soul In him to know the shape of the soul. Honestly it goes to Mahito 8 times out of 10
@@ratman7923 yeah but Mahito wouldn’t be able to do anything since to stop Mahito abilities is just know the layout of your soul and guard it shigaraki has technically has already done that
@@ratman7923 yeah but Mahito wouldn’t be able to do anything since to stop Mahito abilities is just know the layout of your soul and guard it shigaraki has technically has already done that if you consider vestjis souls
You also have to consider the quality of a persons soul, sukuna had less curse energy then mahito or jogo yet the quality of his soul was so high that his soul couldn't be manipulated by mahito, if the quirk vestiges are comparable to an actual soul, the fact that all for one has been building up shigaraki's hatred and mental fortitude for the sole purpose of stealing one for all, lends credit to the idea that shigaraki's will might be great enough to resist having his soul manipulated by mahito. if even nanami can resist mahitos touch temporarily, then shigaraki definitely could resist having his soul manipulated, even if only for a few seconds, more than long enough to turn mahito to dust.
@dalaw9660 where in the manga exactly did it say that 2 finger sukuna would have more cursed energy then Yuta. I thought it was sukuna having a highly refined domain, better than anyone else, the refinement of one's innate domain, representing the quality of the soul that allowed sukuna to resist mahito.
@khulmach9662 didn't kenjaku say that jogo was equivalent to sukuna with 3 or 4 fingers, maybe 5. I don't think 2 finger sukuna has more cursed energy than jogo, but he's still a superior fighter and tactician, as well as having a more refined domain.
@@carlhenry3974 Kenjaku said Sukuna was worth 8 fingers, but that is only in curse energy amount. Sukuna gave no praise or indicator that Jogo could beat 3 finger Sukuna but he gave one to Mahoraga. Even then, Sukuna said "Maybe" Mahoraga could beat him. Not even a guarantee and this only factors in Sukuna playing around like his 15-finger self. All round Jogo's value would be 5-6 fingers max if we measure everything. 3 finger sukuna is stronger than just 3 fingers because its only factoring his curse energy reserves and not Sukuna's refinement, output, speed, and power. The fingers are only an indicator for how much curse energy he has.
sorry to say shiggy gets touched badly knowing one's soul grants higher resistance to idle transfiguration so you dont get **one tapped** but you still get damaged heavily he has transfugured humans in his disposal to distract shiggy and a 0.2 second domain that can **selectively** target a soul and mahito is invulnerable to physical damage unless shiggy can damage mahito's soul so even if shiggy uses decay on mahito unless his soul is destroyed he can always regenerate from total annihilation aoe damage doesen't mean jack shit if shiggy gets one tapped like mahito did to nobara lol
Nah, this battle is not closed shigaraki is blatantly winning, his abilities alone will allow him to win in chapter 406 or 407 is where he stated that he can see all mites spirit meaning he can see souls and things of that nature and he knows immediately what's wrong with it. So even if mahito tried to change his soul or someone else's, he will immediately know, He also has search which was upgraded so he doesn't just only search for people. He can now search for the weakness inside of his opponents and their abilities /personalities and he has the reflect power which allows him to reflect your own attacks back at you but stronger and his vestige realm actually takes place in the soul and it's been shown to be able to defend his own soul and fight against other souls so I really don't see how mahito's winning.
asking if they have a soul, is like asking if JJK characters have cells that Shigaraki can manipulate. A question like that is kinda silly for a balancing question. Shigaraki being able to manipulate souls just on the fact that they exist is goofy.
Shigiraki can see him with the quirk: search It too mention that mahito got his shit kicked in by itadori 😂 A guy that can barely lift up a car and run at 50mph Whereas shigiraki can react to light speed attack and is as strong as prime all might and can one shot mahito with decay or keep him at long range with air canon Mahito along with 99% of jjk can’t even come close to shigiraki 🤷♂️ Also the vestiges are confirmed as souls in the manga and shigiraki and Deku can attack them
Shigaraki has a soul, its explicitly stated deku is entering Shigaraki soul through OFA. Shigaraki can only affect Dekus soul when Deku enters his soul into shigaraki, while Mahito doesnt have to enter his own soul into someone elses to transfigure them. He also has no energy to defend his soul so he gets one shot. Mahito gets blitzed many times but he can't get hurt AT ALL by Shigaraki and he one shots Shigaraki. Having an extra soul≠being able to attack Mahito soul. He still needs cursed energy or some spiritual force he can use at will to target the soul.
Also if shigi can hurt him like a normal sorcerer then I call bs on the soul hax because this ain't boxing cutting or whatever else, it's literally disintegration, he's just not coming back from that lol
I think this just comes down to if decay counts as a cursed technique. Cuz while both ct and quirks are genetic ct is built from the magical source and a quirk is a literal body function. So idk if they count but even if he can see the souls decay has to count as a ct attack to work
I'm just saying that because of how Mahito affecting Yuji/Sukuna worked would idle Transfiguration not hit all souls inside of Shigi? Furthermore if he gets self embodiment of perfection off that is a wrap aswell. I think Mahito has it here. But if someone has counter arguments please tell me!
Wait, do demons in demon Slayer can maintain their inability to die without the nichirin blade or sunlight, but in debates cursed spirits can't retain the requirement that they have to be exercised with CE? Even if Shiggy can hit the soul, his attacks need CE
The body is formed from the soul and Mahito's body is made of CE. Soul damage is one of the few things that should override the need for CE in an attack, by the logic of Mahito's technique.
@@ZenithAniManga Except for the fact that Mahito's technique also falls within the laws of Jujutsu and CE. For example, even though Yuji is aware of his soul he can't hurt Mahito without using CE. To even have a chance at interacting with the laws of his technique you have to also use CE.
Shigraki quite literally cannot kill, let alone harm, Mahito because he has no cursed energy. You cannot exorcise a curse without a curse yourself. So unfortunately Mahito slams with negative diff
You’re wrong about a domain not targeting things without CE, The domain only treats things without CE as a building or something of the sort. Dagon would have probably killed Toji if he regained his sure hit and Toji has no CE. If he did have residue of CE his Heavenly restriction would not have applied to him but it did meaning he had zero CE. That said without CE Shiggy could escape a domain but because Mahito could tie activation with sure hit-he would already be hit. Odds are the fights rules will go as follows. Shiggy needs to land x touches to completely destroy Mahitos body to drain him of CE while Mahito needs to touch Shiggy x amount of times -each removing a quirk as they act like souls in MHA.
Well the part where you talk about the possibility of a domain expansion can work. Everyone has curse energy, just very small amounts. That's why infinite void worked on all those people in the train station. Tge only ones that are immune to a domain expansion are toji and maki since they have no curse energy
People really got to remember that Mahito technically isn't even technically a physical being. But a amalgamation of negative energy taken form and decay need physical objects to be effective. The vestiges are treated as a part of this quirk specifically they also do act as souls because they are of literally deceased people. In a similar way to a jjk character Yuta and he uses Rika
We then come to the greatest issue, due to Shiggy not being from JJK, he cannot see Mahito, which also means Shiggy cannot interact with Mahito either, Mahito's Domain also literally puts his target in the palm of his hand so unlukely CE matters.
Mahito could land 1 blow and change shigurakis soul to fit to have cursed energy then it would only take 1 domain to win so Mahito would just split himself to confuse shiguraki touch him take the dub domain exspansion idle transfiguration even if Mahito is At the point where he’s about to loose he could just land a black flash hopefully restoring his domain and using distorted body of undead killing
Great video, But I can't help but feel like you're lowballing MHA's speed scaling here. Deku dodging that Sonic Attack from Jiro isn't anywhere NEAR his best speed feat, Supersonic - MHS MHA isn't super consistent, as multiple characters have reacted to and evaded actual light beams. Deku especially, in his battle against flect turn, was able to evade and react to SEVERAL lasers at the same time. Which we know were light-based, based on the fact they were literally bouncing off of mirrors. And these laser-timing feats are fairly consistent when you look at other characters like Star and Stripe who was also able to react to and dodge laser beams and Radio Waves (both of these travelling at the speed of light). And Shigaraki surpasses all of these characters, at least how they were at the time these feats were performed. So Relativistic lowball to FTL highball via Calcs MHA is much more consistent. Given this, it's likely that Shigaraki would blitz Mahito given such a massive speed discrepancy. Of course, that doesn't account for the other nuances for this fight like, if Shigaraki would even be able to see or Kill Mahito -- But I do believe it's fairly blatant that Shigaraki's AP and Speed Scaling is much much Higher than Mahito's.
5:34 when seeing that sound based attack I thought it was in slow motion but looking at the rain it was actually just that slow so that feat doesn't mean anything when that sound based attack was going that slow and when measuring it it goes approx deku a second so yeeahhhhhh real fast and btw deku is 5,5 in feet soooooo 1.65 metres a sec and that's 3 miles per hour and average jogging speed is 4-6 mph so just use another feat. ALSO HE basically admits mahito wins at 7:46 so haha mha fans. and those arguing that verse equalisation makes it so he has cursed energy that's a bad argument For example you could equalise something like nen and chakra because at least their similar BUT cursed energy and quirks ARE WAY WAY to different to equalise and since shigaraki has no REAL win condition without stretching really big IFS I give it to mahito. also 6:54 he gets that wrong it's not having a second soul it's having an UNDERSTANDING of the soul which he does not have. 7:20 mahito wins either argument you give If Shigaraki doesn't have Cursed energy like you say then he can't dmg mahito but if he does he gets sure hit.
I think Shigaraki can kill with just one Decay, and the reason is is Decay not a Damage Move, this atack Unmake you, soo... i don´t think it realy matter if you can Cure your self, is like the Age Power of Barragan in Bleach or the Hakai in Dragon Ball Super, basicly don´t Matter if you can cure your self, You Just Die.
Having multiple souls ain't what allowed Itadori to hit Mahito It's being aware of souls that allowed him to do damage. If he could just damage souls he'd be destroying everyone in a fight because even if they could block with cursed energy he'd be striking their souls which is never shown
The interesting thing to include in the equation is All for One's own vestige within Shigaraki. Vestiges are generally treated as spirits tied to quirks, even Shigaraki describing it as his soul when resisting All for One's takeover. The thing is Shigaraki inherently has an identity crisis, which may leave him vulnerable to Mahito's abilities. Thing is All for One could easily step in and render it a non issue, something he has done when Shigaraki is in danger or is at risk of dying. Especially with Search, All for One stepping into the picture could essentially end the fight immediately given how far more intelligent and calculating he is, being able to exploit the weakness of even unpredictable genocidal madmen
Yuji can land attack on mahito's soul, because he has a technique for that, not because he knows the shape of his soul. So third option isn't also giving shigaraki any options to oneshot mahito, but i haven't watched MHA, and i dont know how fast this character is, he can be like 20 time faster than mahito and if he is = no matter which way of looking we choose, mahito dies. He will not even touch shigaraki to use his technique, so it will be over for mahito)
Well, here’s the thing, since you aren’t really doing verse equalization, since you said latter in the video shiggy doesn’t have cursed energy. Shiggy wouldn’t be able to even damage Mahito in the first situation, since you need to cursed energy to even do anything to a cursed spirit(that’s added onto the fact you need to also damage Mahito’s soul to actually damage him), that fight would be a draw
Could multiple quirks count as multiple souls? Since everyone in jjk has one power and then variants of it (or at least sorcerers and curses do) like a quirk does that would mean shigiraki has multiple souls meaning he has to be hit multiple times by Mahito? If that were true then you could bring in the "No cursed energy means no seeing curses" bit and still have a fair fight as a possibility could be that he is hit, doesn't die due to the multiple quirks equal multiple souls, then after figuring out he lost a quirk he would then decay the surrounding area so that no one could get near him except for above and also have a chance of killing Mahito if he doesn't get away fast enough.
Btw in the manga the vestiges of shiggy said they were attacking the soul of shiggy thats how deku beat afo as the blow was felt threw out all of japan and america proves they have souls
I wouldn't say they don't have songs. I feel like soul's kind of a nice part of any human being anywhere and any you know unless you explicitly said otherwise
Aren’t quirks just people’s souls being conceptualized into power in MHA? Like one’s quirk is connected straight to their soul, so technically every quirk user knows how to control and attack souls directly, especially the ones that directly temper with quirks and therefore souls
Not really. It's never really made sense, but quirks are something genetic, so DNA, so physical body. Why Deku can see the vestiges (pretty much souls) of the previous OFA users is beyond me, but quirks are supposed to be physical
The voice of the fourth outcome, since we’ve been giving a description that tells us man to generate his body for nothing. There’s a chance one decay would move him without a body and make it so he can’t even generate one. You said it might take them a lot of energy but since his ability description is that he manipulates the body by moving the soul, that means if his body is gone, he might not be able to do anything because it’s like having a controller with no consul if that’s only a possibility And yeah, the Shigaki can’t see him part is pretty boring and doesn’t even make it a fight since only one of the characters knows that there’s someone else there and if it’s that one sided that’s not really a fight
finally... the touching battle...
Get the lube.. it's gonna get messy
Ah yes the drake vs kris indeed
where'd my comment gi
BRUH IT GOT DELETED
@@defeatingasandwich_onlymak9967 what did you even say for that to happen 😭
I laughed so hard when he said "Do the MHA characters have souls?", I could also say the same about the fandom lol
I’d say the MHA fandom has too much soul
@@TheCancelledJester9 lol, that's some souless claim🤣
I wanna make a soul-sucking joke out of this,but I don’t have the soul to do it
Ok I’m going
@@king_doom6969that wasnt funny
@@king_doom6969try again next time
Both will “IM GONNA TOUCH YOU” against each other anyway
I have found out that Kohei Horikoshi (Creator of MHA) and Gege Akutami (Creator of JJK) they are really close friends
Horikoshi is also a fan of kubo
@@Animemanist Huh the more you know
So a guy that doesn't want to kill off major characters is friends with a mc hater?
@@giancedrickbeltran3624 yep
and gege is friends with tatsuki fujimoto (csm creator)
This is gonna be a death battle now, thanks to the people supporting Death Battle
I wanna see Sukuna vs Shigaraki 😓😓😓
0:31 thats you when you saw death battle not go under
Wait fr?!
@thinhvo6888 yep, they also just announced Aang vs.The Traveler a few minutes ago
@@DeathBattleFan-wi4cc damn, have they announced all the upcoming battles or is there still more
Assuming you equalize souls and vestiges, you could also argue that Shigaraki has some form of soul manipulation resistance since in chapter 379 he prevents the AFO consciousness from overwriting his mind and body, and even uses the explicit term “soul” when describing himself doing it
that doesn't mean he can negate idle transfiguration just because he prevents all for one from overwriting his consciousness... Idle transfiguration shapes a soul regardless of how you feel or what you try to do. It's like sculpting an inanimate pile of clay, that clay can't do anything but sit there and be sculpted.
Geto being able to somewhat resist Kenjaku’s control over his body but not being capable of resisting Mahito’s idle transfiguration as far as we know kinda debunks that argument. In JJK there are multiple incidents where the ability to overpower or resist somebody’s consciousness from taking over your body has not equated to the ability to resist or negate idle transfiguration. Sukuna who was completely unfazed by Mahito’s idle transfiguration and was able to casually cause severe damage to Mahito’s soul was unable to ever overpower or put up a fight against Yuji’s control over his body. Yuji who can only harm Mahito’s soul because he became a vessel for Sukuna is also heavily implied by Mahito to not be the reason why he can’t use idle transfiguration on Yuji. Sukuna is why Mahito can’t use his CT on Yuji. So Yuji isn’t immune to Idle Transfiguration but can casually resist Sukuna’s control, who was immune to Idle Transfiguration which Yuji isn’t immune to.
And Toji who has no soul manipulation, unintentionally entity-crammed a dude’s soul out of it’s own body, but couldn’t resist having his consciousness overwritten by the grandma’s runaway cursed-technique.
So in JJK being able to resist your consciousness from being overwritten doesn’t at all equate to having a stronger soul or having soul manipulation resistance. If that were the case, then the power dynamics between Sukuna, Mahito, and Yuji wouldn’t be possible.
Since Mahito’s CT would work against Yuji if he didn’t have Sukuna, then Sukuna who completely negated Mahito’s CT should subsequently easily overpower Yuji’s soul and overwrite Yuji’s consciousness, but that isn’t what happened.
@@BL00DYMERCURYnope mahito says if you aware of your own soul you are resistant and you can also hurt mahito
Chap 411 Shigaraki can outright see ghosts
@Gtankanime so now shigiraki is automatically aware of his own soul? If that's the case then Mahito is automatically invincible to the decay quirk
Spoilers: As pf the most recent chapters of MHA, if vestiges count as souls, Shiggy can not only see the vestiges of OFA but he straight up snatched Danger Sense guy.
Yeah. Shigaraki with Danger Sense is definitely not getting touched
@@3dsmaster537😂😂😂
@@3dsmaster537domain expansion of 0.8 of a second thats a 100% hit:
@@pietrorazia2184 he already sensed the danger the moment the idea popped into Mahito's head. He'd dodge
@@3dsmaster537the question is can shigaraki dodge a domain expansion?
Shiggy didn't get beat up in Todo's imagination so he gets cooked I fear
That wasn't his imagination that was his domain
@@DellizarSlitThere were subtitles in the top left stating that it was indeed Todo’s imagination. It wasn’t his domain, and we have never seen it.
@@bigboykenob2244 I know I'm making a joke
@@bigboykenob2244 durr durrr no shit sherlock. You want a cookie for a reward to your unwanted comment? God help your soul.
Mahito* (This is probably a joke)
It’s interesting to note this comes down to benefit of the doubt. If we cross verse equalization so saying Shigaraki’s attack count as cursed energy we then have to ask do vestiges count as souls and depending on the answer depends on who wins. In theory but realistically if the answer is yes then Shigaraki wins easily but if it’s no we then have to ask the question does remaking his entire body from nothing take more cursed energy and can Mahito even do that in the first place. After all it’s not like we’ve seen Mahito ever regenerate from his entire being including literal molecules and atoms be turnt to dust. At that point it begs the question of can Mahito come back from nothing? Because that’s what he’d be forced to do upon being dusted by decay. And even if he does come back would he be aware of his surrounding while doing so? Because if not then Shigaraki just sits next to Mahito’s body after the first decay lays his hand on the ground next to Mahito and let chain decay kill Mahito due to curse energy drain since Mahito doesn’t have a brain and isn’t aware enough to stop him. You see it’s much more complicated than people are really giving it credit for and also here another way Shigaraki can win. If Shigaraki dodges the domain expansion due to his speed difference and then shatters it Mahito just dies I think due to being hit by decay without his Cursed Technique active. Sure that final fight is unlikely but it’s still possible.
I personally think Shigaraki can win at least 50% of the time with all this stated but considering how many factors left are unsure I’m not willing to say he could win more and the same also goes for Mahito because as much as people say Domain Expansion wins which I agree on it’s honestly not likely it ever gets pulled out in a defining manner because in the ones Shigaraki wins Mahito never truly gets the chance to pull it out especially if they are in character and the ones where Mahito wins domain is fairly redundant since he shouldn’t need it to win at that point aside from making up the speed difference between him and Shigaraki.
It's stated mahito would die by completey destroying his body
Vestiges are souls as seen with All Might's vestige. So Shigaraki can see the shape of his soul. Plus the abysmal stat difference means that Mahito is never touching Shigaraki, especially when you factor in more that 3 sensory quirks.
Edit : Chap 411 Shigaraki can outright see ghosts
Thing is, Mahito is a better Fighter and has better tools to make his one shot easier, also if we factor in Yuji's black flash against Hanami, he would be around SoL to low FTL. If you are going to talk about Yuji not being able to dodge Piercing blood, 1. Yuji was airborne when he had to react to it. 2. Yuji was off guard and still reacted to it. so that anti feat wouldn't apply here.
@@jin2821 Is that a joke ? Black Flash isn't speed based. And the Top ranks of MHA barely get to MACH 3. Nayoa at MACH 3 is the fastest curse in JJK and blitzes Maki with Full heavenly restriction who is equal to Toji himself.
And JJK's best best AP feat is small city level that Mahito does not scale to. The best you can scale him to is Jogo's maximum meteor at Large town level. Something Shigaraki can achieve by just jumping.
Hell just look at the difference in final battle. Gojo vs Sukuna barely destroyed a part of a district. Shigaraki vs Deku has just started and they have already destroyed Shizuka Prefecture and Shiggy is going to destroy mount Fuji.
@@jin2821 And pretty much every character in the series struggles to dodge Piercing blood even 20f Sukuna.
@@Agent-57 Bro must be on another level of retard. First of all, that mach 3 statement only meant as in travel speed, this is further proven by the fact its been contradicted on multiple occasions, for example, Maki catching a bullet point blank range, which was calced from mach 9 - mach 21. More proof on this is the black hole feat from Kenjaku and Sukuna dodging EM waves, so saying JJK would cap at Mach 3 is blatantly wrong.
Next up the scaling, Bro has never heard of AP or DC☠. Gojo has Planetary+ AP via the same black hole feat from Kenjaku, also there are statements from the back of the manga cover stating Sukuna has the power to destroy the world. If say "Oh, thats hax" Hey stupid, Kenjaku had to be putting the same amount of power as black hole to resist it, "Oh Yuki and Tengen were holding it back" Kenjaku out scales both of them EASILY☠. So yes, JJK caps at Planetary+ - Maybe small star level with FTL+ speeds.
@@Agent-57 20F sukuna barely even took damage from it, he didn't even see it as a threat as he just blocked it like it was a water gun. moron.
Shigaraki would know the shape of his soul, he share souls with AFO. Shigaraki outright says AFO was trying to take over his soul but shiggy hid his origin to overcome it
Shiggy could decay OFA world which is stated to be a world of souls(see when Deku unlocks black whip). Shiggy could also sense a curse, AFO was completely blind as stated when he was sent to prison and had multiple quirks allowing him to sense the world and fight all might
“Do mha characters have souls” is a dumb question in a convo like this because do to verse equalization to make the fight fair yes they would
Fr atp you could just say Shiggy doesn’t have cursed energy and can’t see or touch Mahito because of that 🤦♂️ (edit: 7:45)
Shigaraki was still confused on weather he was AFO or not. There's still Tenko Shimura, but I feel like Shigaraki would still know the shape of his soul if you count that as a soul.
The fact that this is going to be an actual Death Battle! 😅😂
So if mahito can come back for ever because of his curse technique, Shigaraki could use All For One to take his power, making him unable to manipulate his soul and finally be able to kill him
Mahito can run out of CE and Nanami confirms that at that point anybody eben if they cant percieve the soul can merk him, cuz his CT cant work with little CE.
Finally someone with a brain
@thegreatestoctopus9739 all for one only works with quirks
Not cursed techniques
@@mritchie2.0 you ever heard of verse equalisation?
@@thegreatestoctopus9739 ever heard of not using it
This is going to be a Death Battle! 💀💀💀
Mahito and Shiggy are actually coincidently pretty similar in body shape and hair colour IG
You must be 73% blind
dawg you are white blue color blind im sorry to tell you
Rody Soul's Quirk (the guy from World Heroes Mission) which is literally called Soul manifests itself as a bird he named Pino and Pino is directly connected to Rody's soul and her actions articulate Rody's true thoughts and feelings so yes MHA do in fact have souls.
Pino is not tied to his soul or anything. His quirk is that Pino shows his true feelings.
bruh idc who wins its abt all the destruction thats gonna happen 💀💀💀💀
the battle of touching people
Diddy Battle
@@errorstudioz Diddy battle indeed
THE DIDDY DOWN 🗣
Mahito would never even touch Shigaraki, the stats are just to far apart for this to be relatively close and Mahito can’t reform his body if there’s no body to reform lmao.
Bro did u watch jjk he doesn't need a body all he needs is his soul LOL
This fight would just turn into a tickle fight
A lot of people seem to forgot something, Shigaraki has All For One,which has multiple vestiges of the quirks AFO has stolen over the years and recently its shown that the vestiges in AFO can rebel if AFO gets too emotional in a negative way and loses his control of their quirks,so if you use verse equalization and say vestiges are souls , wouldn't this mean Shigaraki's soul can't be affected? Plus Shigaraki literally hid his younger self away which is shown to be another vestige,so without counting the vestiges in AFO, Shigaraki has three souls inside him and a lot more in AFO.
A lot of people also ignore that a lot of these characters are smart and quick learners so they can figure out a lot of things quickly if they see it at least once , Shigaraki also has a force field and a laser quirk he never uses for some reason, idk if his regeneration will help much but so far this fight leans towards Shigaraki,Mahito can win though as well in many ways.
Shigaraki gets one tapped
No, Shigi soul can still be affected, the only reason Mahito never attempted to one-shot Yuji via soul manip is because of Sukuna, he knows that if he even dares to touch Yuji's soul he will be touching Sukuna's soul aswell and Sukuna would cut him down immediately, so unless were saying AFO or any of the other souls are more advanced with the soul then Mahito, Mahito can still one shot him.
No no he might be resistant to it but not immune
@badroboudjerda4394 if mahito interacted with shiggys soul all the vestiges in shigaraki would literally jump him like sukuna cut mahito
@@troyblair1133no he doesn’t
Remember the Non sorcerer's in Shibuya when Gojo popped his Domain. They got affected by IV.
Alot ppl like to use Toji and Maki when to hey are outliers, they can literally see cursed spirits but don't have cursed energy themselves... Domains work on regular ppl... Gojo's Domain under Shibuya almost left every non sorcerer down there in a vegetative state.. A domain would work on Shigaraki.
The Strongest Toucher in History VS The Strongest Toucher of Today
There's another way to kill mahito
If you're wear him out enough to were he runs outta cursed energy he can't use his technique anymore meaning he can be hurt and killed by regular blows
(Implied by nanami to ino against a weakened mahito)
He said that in the vid
@@AeonEternal-fe4uq didn't have time the watch the full thing. Was on the bus to school I'm currently at lunch.
If he hits a black flash then that stamina and cursed energy gets replenished, which wasn't mentioned in the video.
@@BL00DYMERCURY In fact, Black Flash only makes control over energy more refined, so the expense is much less. For Gojo who can recover cursed energy, less spent is equivalent to more energy recovered
@@AeonEternal-fe4uq tomato tomato
shigaraki fucking destroys mahito, shigaraki with the vestiges are souls, considering all might is a vestige before dying, shigaraki outright suppresses vestiges and overpowers others, and shigaraki is ftl, adding danger sense and how decay negates durability and regeneration along with the added ways of how it can decay a city in SECONDS. mahito has zero ways of defending himself, shigaraki solos him and the verse, including gojo since shigaraki has spacial manipulation quirks and decay when he touches the ground wouldnt count as a physical attack infinity could divide, since gojo needs to be able to not only analyze the threat with his automatic brain, but be aware of it as well, which is how world cleave got past infinity, fucking mirko would solo the verse minus gojo
You can’t come back from decay It’s total disintegration with 0 cells left. You’re literally deleted from existence like a Thanos snap.
We’re not talking about perfect cell here, as long as Mahito’s soul is intact he can come back from total annihilation, so long as he doesn’t run out of cursed energy that is.
@@dataroaming7512Wouldn't constantly getting deatroyed by Decay waves and rebuilt bassically put Mahito into an infinite stun lock till his ce depleats?
@@Storm-Cloud That would happen if Mahito was an idiot, but he can freely morph his body and is incredibly difficult to actually tag, he could make a copy of himself and touch Shiggy from behind, that kinda stuff.
Sure, Implying mahito would just stand there and do nothing. As much as i hate that guy, he's one of the most adaptable and high battle IQ in JJK @@Storm-Cloud
@@dataroaming7512 But there is no body left to manipulate my guy that’s the whole problem.
both are invited to the diddy party
without cursed energy you can't kill a curse. They'll just keep coming back. Mha doesn't have any energy based power system to verse equalize with
I always thought Shigaraki vs Mahito was about seeing who was the best villain
It's been about both, really
@@ZenithAniMangawhat did shigaraki do to top mahito in terms of being a villian?
@@chunkytheduck2980Shigaraki ks an amazing Villain. Great Backstory too
@@jasonblack2477 that literally explains nothing
@@chunkytheduck2980 he developed from a manchild to the symbol of evil. He is the opposite of Deku already better
Since Mahito is a special disaster cursed spirit , he has a massive pool of cursed energy which means it will be quite hard to deplete Mahitos CE , If shigaraki didn't have a soul he would be cooked , however in round 3 its really a 50 50
I appreciate the actual subtitles that aren't auto generated💀
Yeah this fight is really up to interpretation in a lot of ways, and since there's no absolute answer to the questions it asks, the winner may vary from person to person interpreting how their powers interact. That said, here's my interpretations and who I think wins:
(Recent spoilers discussed below)
-First, I think quirk vestiges do count as souls. This is because of All Might having a vestige, despite not having a quirk. And what's more, this vestige changes appearance to look more like All Might if the real one dies, seemingly taking on more of his soul as it leaves the body.
-Due to the above ruling, Shigaraki can see Mahito because he can see quirk vestiges. This includes those outside of his own body and even All Might's quirkless vestige. In other words, he can see souls and ghosts, so he should likely see Mahito.
-(I have no idea what'd happen if he tried to use the AFO quirk on Mahito though.)
-Shigaraki should also know the shape of his soul due to his prolonged internal battle with AFO. That said, due to Mahito's ability interpreting the soul only being connected to the body, several of Shigaraki's moves may not do any real harm to Mahito, including some forms of Decay. It's possible only physical attacks would really have that backing of the soul needed to harm Mahito, meaning anything long-range won't work.
-And to continue being nice to Mahito: Shigaraki should have cursed energy naturally for the same reason we'd assume anyone fighting Goku has Ki and anywhere Obi-Wan fights has the Force floating about; if an energy source is everywhere in every mundane corner of the universe or produced by every mundane human & animal, I think it's fair to just assume the average opponent/location of another series has it too if there's no good reason not too. That said, Shigaraki has no more ability to use Cursed energy than the average jjk human, so all this means is that Shigaraki can be targeted by Self Embodiment of Perfection.
That said, I think the winner is still Shigaraki. He has more than enough transformation & mutation quirks to deal plenty of physical damage to Mahito, and he's smart enough to figure out their effectiveness.
And if it ever came down to a battle of souls due to Mahito touching him or using his Domain, Tomura's soul is far above standard. Bare minimum he's got a few hundred "meat" shield in the quirk vestiges to protect his own soul, and destruction of vestiges hasn't been shown to remove their abilities so it's not like he'd sacrifice quirks to protect himself this way. But also, Tomura's own soul may be dangerous in itself to Mahito; probably not on Sukuna's level, but enough to at least put up a fight if it came to it.
Mahito's soul should scale directly to his body for obvious reasons; probably ranging from multi-block to outright City level if you're generous. Tomura's is harder to scale (so prepare for power-scaling nonsense); but since his soul overpowered OFA with his emotions & willpower, we can put the power of his soul higher than 9 above-avarage human souls at the low end, and above the full power of One For All itself (so about island to country level) at the high end.
Overall, while there may or may not be ways for Mahito to win, there just looks to be a lot more ways that he loses. It's still up in the air who wins in a battle of souls, but since Shigaraki has a decent chance to kill Mahito before it even comes to that, I've got to give it to him.
W take
Honestly Shigaraki slams if we equalized verses mahito would literally just enter shigaraki innate domain and then shigaraki ducks him up there
Personally I don’t really know about giving ce to everyone…mostly because it needs to be learned.
I know it’s mostly in the sport of fairness but logically speaking if a person gets dropped into the jjk universe they won’t even be aware of this new energy source, let alone how to control it.
@@ThelordHayden34 I mean, CE needs to be learned how to _use,_ sure; it's much like Ki in Dragon Ball where a normal human like Videl needs to learn Ki control in order to use cool Ki moves like flight. But that doesn't she didn't have Ki before she learned how to use in in cool ways, and it's the same with CE. Both are naturally occurring energies that appear in all living things (or at least tones with emotions in the case of Cursed Energy).
You're right that out-on-universe characters wouldn't know about this energy or how to use it, neither do most normal humans in JJK, but we don't bring this idea up to give the opponents of JJK charterers a new power system or anything, it's to decide if abilities that target a person's Cursed Energy work on them.
After all, there are characters in JJk who don't have any CE and thus get some immunity to those CE-targetting attacks. However these characters are rare exceptions who don't have Cursed Energy for a good reason; and normal people who have, but have not learned how to use, Cursed Energy have no such immunity to such CE-targeting abilities. So this is a matter of deciding if an out-of-universe character should fall into the first category or the second by mere virtue of being out-of-universe.
To again draw comparisons to Ki: it's a bit like arguing if an out-of-universe fighter dropped into Dragon Ball should have Ki or not; granting all the advantages the absence of Ki gave the Androids if they do not.
@@GiftOfKnowledge-np9vg I mean , I dm know they would have ce. I’m saying the couldn’t use it . Therefore out of verse charters couldn’t harm curses spirits if we put it logically.
If we do cross verse scaling, we should assume that shigarakis quirks run off of cursed energy, otherwise they wouldn’t damage mahito. But it’s interesting because the same mechanism that allows yuji to see souls (via. The result of being a vessel) is arguably the equivalent of hosting multiple quirks and being able to feel the vestiges.
AFO has been able to swap consciousness with shiggy multiple times similar to yuji/ sukuna so they function very similarly to a vessel/ curse relationship and AFO has also been able to perceive the vestiges of OFA around deku. If thats not “perception of the soul” idk what is. With that, shiggys powers are so overwhelmingly broken, it makes no sense how mahito can beat him. Even with idle transfiguration, shiggy has displayed the ability to react to / adapt to “soul” damage via. Star & Stripes battle with him. Although he may sustain damage from I.T. he can still change his body to adapt to the damage. Shiggy wins
Thats a nice take on that
This is a fact
How does shigaraki see Mahito
@@Eggshd verse equalization
Gotta love how people try to give the best adavantage to the losing side, its hilarious
Ive always had this fight in my head but never had enough knowledge about shigaraki to give my opinion thx for the vid covering this topic
I know its old but the last senario you say mahitos domain wont have a sure hit on shigaraki because he has no cursed energy by that logic its a win for mahito as some one who has no cursed energy can't hurt him and see him
Will Shigaraki even be able to kill Mahito though? Because you need cursed energy to kill curses and the mha power system is not some kind of magical energy but a part of their genes. This means verse equalization would be pointless because both of these power systems can coexist without contradicting each other and the mha characters would just not have any cursed energy.
I would argue that soul damage surpasses that need, if we assume Shigaraki can do that. Since the "body" (which is cursed energy for Mahito) is shaped after the soul.
then its a draw, they cant interact with each other, they cant do anything with each other
People realize mahito can still be killed by being dusted right?
Shigarakis power destroys matter on the atomic level, he can kill mahito
@@sbcs2809 buddy, MAHITO IS invisible how tf is shiggy even gonna touch him let alone see him?
The average human has ce, only time they dont have is when its specified to be 0 like in the case of toji or maki
2:49 So...A soul? They are souls... just that they're bits ingrained in their quirks. Because how can you explain the stuff in the manga where Afo suffers from his quirks going wild
If we say Shigaraki has no cursed energy then he can't even hurt Mahito since people without cursed energy can't even destroy flatheads. This is why an early yuji with no cursed energy control is given that cursed tool dagger.
shigaraki in his prime has fused with afo and he has ofa which means that he has danger sense which can let him dodge mahito's attacks. Next, we can see that when afo show off his quirks, there's a quirk about souls but we don't see him control one's soul or at least taking over shigaraki's soul, which means that he can protect his souls from attcks
But the problem is can shigaraki see mahito?
Yes danger sense and search quirk also be reaction speed and easily blitzed mahito
Its quite complicated if mahito can land his domain sure hit it means that shigaraki loses if but if he cant land his domain sure hit it means shigaraki has no CE so he cant even see him (jjk verse is quite complicated to equalize compared to other verses)
So really, this battle is dependent on how we handle how Mahito's Curse Techniques can affect Shigiraki and vice versa.
well 3 things that we have seen to connect to souls is with the third mha movie where rody has a bird that is basically his soul and then we have vestiges and then tokoyami with dark shadow which is his soul so its kinda weird
So if Shiggy were to somehow destroyed his body I mean, turn it into complete ash would Mahito be able to come back from that?
Yes because it can't destroy his soul. He can come back from nothing as long as the soul remains and sense he is a curse he has a infinite soul. Unless he can attack his soul with decay wich probably not as yuji has much more than having another soul In him to know the shape of the soul. Honestly it goes to Mahito 8 times out of 10
@@ratman7923 yeah but Mahito wouldn’t be able to do anything since to stop Mahito abilities is just know the layout of your soul and guard it shigaraki has technically has already done that
@@ratman7923 yeah but Mahito wouldn’t be able to do anything since to stop Mahito abilities is just know the layout of your soul and guard it shigaraki has technically has already done that if you consider vestjis souls
Hey this might actually be interest-
*Remembers mahito is curse*
Oh yeah....well we do be cooked
You also have to consider the quality of a persons soul, sukuna had less curse energy then mahito or jogo yet the quality of his soul was so high that his soul couldn't be manipulated by mahito, if the quirk vestiges are comparable to an actual soul, the fact that all for one has been building up shigaraki's hatred and mental fortitude for the sole purpose of stealing one for all, lends credit to the idea that shigaraki's will might be great enough to resist having his soul manipulated by mahito. if even nanami can resist mahitos touch temporarily, then shigaraki definitely could resist having his soul manipulated, even if only for a few seconds, more than long enough to turn mahito to dust.
Sorry to tell you homie but Sukuna has more than double Yuta's amount of CE at 2 fingers, I'm pretty sure he had more CE than mahito
@dalaw9660 where in the manga exactly did it say that 2 finger sukuna would have more cursed energy then Yuta. I thought it was sukuna having a highly refined domain, better than anyone else, the refinement of one's innate domain, representing the quality of the soul that allowed sukuna to resist mahito.
@@carlhenry3974 Sukuna's soul was stronger than Jogo at 2 fingers and that is it.
Yuta never comes up.
@khulmach9662 didn't kenjaku say that jogo was equivalent to sukuna with 3 or 4 fingers, maybe 5. I don't think 2 finger sukuna has more cursed energy than jogo, but he's still a superior fighter and tactician, as well as having a more refined domain.
@@carlhenry3974 Kenjaku said Sukuna was worth 8 fingers, but that is only in curse energy amount.
Sukuna gave no praise or indicator that Jogo could beat 3 finger Sukuna but he gave one to Mahoraga.
Even then, Sukuna said "Maybe" Mahoraga could beat him. Not even a guarantee and this only factors in Sukuna playing around like his 15-finger self.
All round Jogo's value would be 5-6 fingers max if we measure everything.
3 finger sukuna is stronger than just 3 fingers because its only factoring his curse energy reserves and not Sukuna's refinement, output, speed, and power. The fingers are only an indicator for how much curse energy he has.
sorry to say shiggy gets touched badly knowing one's soul grants higher resistance to idle transfiguration so you dont get **one tapped** but you still get damaged heavily he has transfugured humans in his disposal to distract shiggy and a 0.2 second domain that can **selectively** target a soul and mahito is invulnerable to physical damage unless shiggy can damage mahito's soul so even if shiggy uses decay on mahito unless his soul is destroyed he can always regenerate from total annihilation aoe damage doesen't mean jack shit if shiggy gets one tapped like mahito did to nobara lol
Nah, this battle is not closed shigaraki is blatantly winning, his abilities alone will allow him to win in chapter 406 or 407 is where he stated that he can see all mites spirit meaning he can see souls and things of that nature and he knows immediately what's wrong with it. So even if mahito tried to change his soul or someone else's, he will immediately know, He also has search which was upgraded so he doesn't just only search for people. He can now search for the weakness inside of his opponents and their abilities /personalities and he has the reflect power which allows him to reflect your own attacks back at you but stronger and his vestige realm actually takes place in the soul and it's been shown to be able to defend his own soul and fight against other souls so I really don't see how mahito's winning.
asking if they have a soul, is like asking if JJK characters have cells that Shigaraki can manipulate. A question like that is kinda silly for a balancing question. Shigaraki being able to manipulate souls just on the fact that they exist is goofy.
Shigiraki can see him with the quirk: search
It too mention that mahito got his shit kicked in by itadori 😂
A guy that can barely lift up a car and run at 50mph
Whereas shigiraki can react to light speed attack and is as strong as prime all might and can one shot mahito with decay or keep him at long range with air canon
Mahito along with 99% of jjk can’t even come close to shigiraki 🤷♂️
Also the vestiges are confirmed as souls in the manga and shigiraki and Deku can attack them
THANK YOU🙏🙏🙏FOR BRINGING UP THE FACT THAT AT BARE MINIMUM SHIGGY COUPD AT LEAST DETECT MAHITO🧎
Shigaraki has a soul, its explicitly stated deku is entering Shigaraki soul through OFA. Shigaraki can only affect Dekus soul when Deku enters his soul into shigaraki, while Mahito doesnt have to enter his own soul into someone elses to transfigure them. He also has no energy to defend his soul so he gets one shot. Mahito gets blitzed many times but he can't get hurt AT ALL by Shigaraki and he one shots Shigaraki.
Having an extra soul≠being able to attack Mahito soul. He still needs cursed energy or some spiritual force he can use at will to target the soul.
Also if shigi can hurt him like a normal sorcerer then I call bs on the soul hax because this ain't boxing cutting or whatever else, it's literally disintegration, he's just not coming back from that lol
I think this just comes down to if decay counts as a cursed technique. Cuz while both ct and quirks are genetic ct is built from the magical source and a quirk is a literal body function. So idk if they count but even if he can see the souls decay has to count as a ct attack to work
Bruh gege needs to expand on the "can't k!ll without ce" thing cus this is just getting out off hand.
I'm just saying that because of how Mahito affecting Yuji/Sukuna worked would idle Transfiguration not hit all souls inside of Shigi? Furthermore if he gets self embodiment of perfection off that is a wrap aswell. I think Mahito has it here. But if someone has counter arguments please tell me!
Who does your thumbnails?
Check out @Sonchapoo on twitter. He's done a lot of my thumbnails
Shigaraki outstats and Mahito out haxes.
Wait, do demons in demon Slayer can maintain their inability to die without the nichirin blade or sunlight, but in debates cursed spirits can't retain the requirement that they have to be exercised with CE? Even if Shiggy can hit the soul, his attacks need CE
The body is formed from the soul and Mahito's body is made of CE. Soul damage is one of the few things that should override the need for CE in an attack, by the logic of Mahito's technique.
@@ZenithAniManga Except for the fact that Mahito's technique also falls within the laws of Jujutsu and CE. For example, even though Yuji is aware of his soul he can't hurt Mahito without using CE. To even have a chance at interacting with the laws of his technique you have to also use CE.
Shigaraki speed billz and one tap
2:33 bro??? Did u even read the manga💀💀💀💀
💀💀💀
Fr
Why would anyone read that shit💀
@@prokorok whats ur fav manga tard?
@@prokorok The manga ain’t even bad though.
5:28 are we just gonna ignore all the other speed feats putting him at ftl?
Shigraki quite literally cannot kill, let alone harm, Mahito because he has no cursed energy. You cannot exorcise a curse without a curse yourself. So unfortunately Mahito slams with negative diff
5:24 I don’t think Shigaraki can use search on Mahito, as from what I remember, search is only usable on people with quirks, might be wrong though
You’re wrong about a domain not targeting things without CE, The domain only treats things without CE as a building or something of the sort. Dagon would have probably killed Toji if he regained his sure hit and Toji has no CE. If he did have residue of CE his Heavenly restriction would not have applied to him but it did meaning he had zero CE. That said without CE Shiggy could escape a domain but because Mahito could tie activation with sure hit-he would already be hit.
Odds are the fights rules will go as follows.
Shiggy needs to land x touches to completely destroy Mahitos body to drain him of CE while Mahito needs to touch Shiggy x amount of times -each removing a quirk as they act like souls in MHA.
Well the part where you talk about the possibility of a domain expansion can work. Everyone has curse energy, just very small amounts. That's why infinite void worked on all those people in the train station. Tge only ones that are immune to a domain expansion are toji and maki since they have no curse energy
People really got to remember that Mahito technically isn't even technically a physical being. But a amalgamation of negative energy taken form and decay need physical objects to be effective. The vestiges are treated as a part of this quirk specifically they also do act as souls because they are of literally deceased people. In a similar way to a jjk character Yuta and he uses Rika
For someone reason, the question: "Do MHA characters have souls?" Just made me laugh lol
It isn't even a fight because there just gonna touch each others face!
Shigi wins
"do mha characters even have a soul?" what is bro cooking..?
did buddy forget about the one for all vestiges?
We then come to the greatest issue, due to Shiggy not being from JJK, he cannot see Mahito, which also means Shiggy cannot interact with Mahito either, Mahito's Domain also literally puts his target in the palm of his hand so unlukely CE matters.
Everybody has cursed energy toji is just special😭
Mahito could land 1 blow and change shigurakis soul to fit to have cursed energy then it would only take 1 domain to win so Mahito would just split himself to confuse shiguraki touch him take the dub domain exspansion idle transfiguration even if Mahito is At the point where he’s about to loose he could just land a black flash hopefully restoring his domain and using distorted body of undead killing
Great video, But I can't help but feel like you're lowballing MHA's speed scaling here. Deku dodging that Sonic Attack from Jiro isn't anywhere NEAR his best speed feat, Supersonic - MHS MHA isn't super consistent, as multiple characters have reacted to and evaded actual light beams. Deku especially, in his battle against flect turn, was able to evade and react to SEVERAL lasers at the same time. Which we know were light-based, based on the fact they were literally bouncing off of mirrors. And these laser-timing feats are fairly consistent when you look at other characters like Star and Stripe who was also able to react to and dodge laser beams and Radio Waves (both of these travelling at the speed of light). And Shigaraki surpasses all of these characters, at least how they were at the time these feats were performed. So Relativistic lowball to FTL highball via Calcs MHA is much more consistent.
Given this, it's likely that Shigaraki would blitz Mahito given such a massive speed discrepancy. Of course, that doesn't account for the other nuances for this fight like, if Shigaraki would even be able to see or Kill Mahito -- But I do believe it's fairly blatant that Shigaraki's AP and Speed Scaling is much much Higher than Mahito's.
Could Shigaraki even see Mahito though?
He has many sensory quirks and has a danger sensor (spider sense)
Yeah, toji could see curses
5:34 when seeing that sound based attack I thought it was in slow motion but looking at the rain it was actually just that slow so that feat doesn't mean anything when that sound based attack was going that slow and when measuring it it goes approx deku a second so yeeahhhhhh real fast and btw deku is 5,5 in feet soooooo 1.65 metres a sec and that's 3 miles per hour and average jogging speed is 4-6 mph so just use another feat. ALSO HE basically admits mahito wins at 7:46 so haha mha fans. and those arguing that verse equalisation makes it so he has cursed energy that's a bad argument For example you could equalise something like nen and chakra because at least their similar BUT cursed energy and quirks ARE WAY WAY to different to equalise and since shigaraki has no REAL win condition without stretching really big IFS I give it to mahito. also 6:54 he gets that wrong it's not having a second soul it's having an UNDERSTANDING of the soul which he does not have. 7:20 mahito wins either argument you give If Shigaraki doesn't have Cursed energy like you say then he can't dmg mahito but if he does he gets sure hit.
I think Shigaraki can kill with just one Decay, and the reason is is Decay not a Damage Move, this atack Unmake you, soo... i don´t think it realy matter if you can Cure your self, is like the Age Power of Barragan in Bleach or the Hakai in Dragon Ball Super, basicly don´t Matter if you can cure your self, You Just Die.
Arguing characters don’t have a soul just because there arnt abilities that involve it is straight asinign
Is Shigaraki stronger and faster than mahito he’s just gonna constantly speed blitz him until he’s tired
The battle of the ultimate touchers
Does this mean people without quirks have no soul?
Having multiple souls ain't what allowed Itadori to hit Mahito It's being aware of souls that allowed him to do damage. If he could just damage souls he'd be destroying everyone in a fight because even if they could block with cursed energy he'd be striking their souls which is never shown
Shigaraki don’t need to touch other to kill for the current him
I like comparing Mahito vs Overhaul more than Mahito vs Shiggy.
The interesting thing to include in the equation is All for One's own vestige within Shigaraki. Vestiges are generally treated as spirits tied to quirks, even Shigaraki describing it as his soul when resisting All for One's takeover. The thing is Shigaraki inherently has an identity crisis, which may leave him vulnerable to Mahito's abilities. Thing is All for One could easily step in and render it a non issue, something he has done when Shigaraki is in danger or is at risk of dying.
Especially with Search, All for One stepping into the picture could essentially end the fight immediately given how far more intelligent and calculating he is, being able to exploit the weakness of even unpredictable genocidal madmen
Yuji can land attack on mahito's soul, because he has a technique for that, not because he knows the shape of his soul. So third option isn't also giving shigaraki any options to oneshot mahito, but i haven't watched MHA, and i dont know how fast this character is, he can be like 20 time faster than mahito and if he is = no matter which way of looking we choose, mahito dies. He will not even touch shigaraki to use his technique, so it will be over for mahito)
Shigaraki is way faster and way stronger and can outlast mahito shigaraki has search to to know all of mahitos abilities aswell
Well, here’s the thing, since you aren’t really doing verse equalization, since you said latter in the video shiggy doesn’t have cursed energy. Shiggy wouldn’t be able to even damage Mahito in the first situation, since you need to cursed energy to even do anything to a cursed spirit(that’s added onto the fact you need to also damage Mahito’s soul to actually damage him), that fight would be a draw
Could multiple quirks count as multiple souls? Since everyone in jjk has one power and then variants of it (or at least sorcerers and curses do) like a quirk does that would mean shigiraki has multiple souls meaning he has to be hit multiple times by Mahito? If that were true then you could bring in the "No cursed energy means no seeing curses" bit and still have a fair fight as a possibility could be that he is hit, doesn't die due to the multiple quirks equal multiple souls, then after figuring out he lost a quirk he would then decay the surrounding area so that no one could get near him except for above and also have a chance of killing Mahito if he doesn't get away fast enough.
Btw in the manga the vestiges of shiggy said they were attacking the soul of shiggy thats how deku beat afo as the blow was felt threw out all of japan and america proves they have souls
Feel like there was a lot of JJK world building ignored here 7:46
I wouldn't say they don't have songs. I feel like soul's kind of a nice part of any human being anywhere and any you know unless you explicitly said otherwise
Shiggy slams bro has country lvl AP and he's light speed he so much stronger than mahito also he has stars and stripes that can manipulate reality.
No cursed energy which means can’t do damage to mahito. Or see him
He forgot to include mahito’s final form instant spirit body of distorted killing
Aren’t quirks just people’s souls being conceptualized into power in MHA? Like one’s quirk is connected straight to their soul, so technically every quirk user knows how to control and attack souls directly, especially the ones that directly temper with quirks and therefore souls
Not really. It's never really made sense, but quirks are something genetic, so DNA, so physical body.
Why Deku can see the vestiges (pretty much souls) of the previous OFA users is beyond me, but quirks are supposed to be physical
@@PixelTrainer. I swear that’s what they said in the anime tho, might have to do research
The voice of the fourth outcome, since we’ve been giving a description that tells us man to generate his body for nothing. There’s a chance one decay would move him without a body and make it so he can’t even generate one. You said it might take them a lot of energy but since his ability description is that he manipulates the body by moving the soul, that means if his body is gone, he might not be able to do anything because it’s like having a controller with no consul if that’s only a possibility
And yeah, the Shigaki can’t see him part is pretty boring and doesn’t even make it a fight since only one of the characters knows that there’s someone else there and if it’s that one sided that’s not really a fight
these titles are so obnoxious like bro just call it mahito vs shigaraki and tank the 1 view difference
Who does a cross verse set up and doesn't equalize power systems that shit made lame