Thanks everyone for joining me today! And please forgive the clickbait in order to get the facts out there, unfortunately it's what the algorithm requires. Sources as always are in the description and if you'd like to support data-driven journalism like this consider becoming a member here! youtube.com/@benSullinsOfficial/join
@BenSullinsOfficial The last graph you showed is very interesting. To me, it looks like the energy this flowrate of water can dissipate is so much that it will dwarf any heatsource in any vehicle. Good to know those systems have this kind of "power". I find the time before and after the water flow might also reveal significant information. The ev took longer to reach high enough temperatures to trigger the suppression system than the icev. The icev temperatures also noticeably lowered on their own after the suppression system stopped for 10min. The ev graph is unfortunately cut to early to see when the temperatures lowered on their own. I have heard that ev fires can stay very hot for longer and sometimes restart after they have been suppressed. To me, this graph does not completely disprove those statements.
Include legacy auto manufacturers, auto parts manufacturers, auto dealers, car sales people, Quick lube establishments, auto parts stores and mechanics on that list as well. They all hate EV’s because it puts their jobs on the line. Personally I love my Tesla and have turned into a real fanboy as a result of actually owning one.
Oil industry hates EVs because EVs are the only vehicle type that you can make your own fuel at home. You don't need a gas station or a refinery an thus you don't need most of the oil industry.
Ohhh, they think they know. They are usually the same ones that won't listen to 'mainstream media', are against vaccines, flouride etc. But the misinformation on EV's peddled thru the same mainstream media - they'll believe that all day long.
Or I presume anything about I.C.E vehicles and their fuel-injection process? That's partly what this video about - I.C.E vehicles aren't exactly the paragon of safety and more-so, lately, even more recalls and concerns that surprise even those who don't own any cars, or have no qualms car-pooling in them. It's a kind of 'the more you know' thing, as Americans say, or glass houses and throwing stones thing.
Yeah, I had a friendly message exchange with one who said that the Luton fire was an EV, when I pointed him in the direction of the fire report, he decided it was falsified by the government to support their EV agenda. You cannot win arguments like that.
"Only problem these days is people don't believe the facts even when clearly presented.": That's not just 'these days'. That is the case since gods / God / Allah showed up. It is all bollocks. Religious persons don't believe in facts. Bur what indeed is different now: there is now a much widespreading of fairy tales, promoted by influencers and other lying people, who had only a small audience before social media exploded. The thing is: it is legal to tell lies. That should be illegal, and it should be fined heavily.
And in the last chart with the rising temperatures, the ICE car gets too hot for humans within under a minute, maybe 30 seconds (hotter than 50°C and quickly above 100°C where water boils). And the EV takes about 8 minutes to get too hot (over 50 °C). More time for the rescue, more chances to get out. Single battery cells explode and burn at first, but not the whole car. And the newer cells, the LFP cells don't burst in flames as easily as the first generation of EV batteries, the ordinary lithium batteries. So, even more time for the rescue. And the LFP battery would not start to burn easily. Many new cars have an LFP battery.
@@whatcouldgowrong7914 Although problematic, it is not quite true to state you cannot extinguish a fire in a lithium battery. Lithium batteries can suffer from what is known as thermal runaway, so the trick is to cool them to the point that runaway is supressed. Under ordinary circumstances a well designed EV battery will not suffer from runaway even if punctured. It will be designed to mitigate thermal runaway by thermally isolating cells, should it occur allowing the fire to be supressed by excluding oxygen and water cooling. Much of the bad press for lithium batteries comes from early less well designed EV batteries or an assumption that EV batteries are the same as cheap e-scooter or hoverboard batteries. I would add that you can add Well Head, Refinery, Sea Tanker, Storage Depot, Road Tanker and Filling Station fires to the list of problematic fires associated with Internal Combustion Engines.
@@whatcouldgowrong7914 ..because most of the energy went out in the initial explosion. That does not happen in battery fires, so it takes longer to put out.
Even if the story moves to report the fire was not an EV, you still get people saying "the media is lying now and it probably was an EV". So you can't win.
@@stephenlee5929 What makes it worse is they are not necessarily intentionally lying, it's just that the myth of EV fires is so pervasive, people assume ALL car fires are EVs.
I'm a firefighter and I can assure you that if a firefighter uses more water on a BEV fire than an ICEV fire, it's due to ignorance. I'm not trying to be harsh to my colleagues out there, firefighters have to keep up with a LOT of new information. Not just new vehicle technology but also new construction techniques and materials, ever changing EMS protocols, emerging haz mat chemistries and mixtures, etc. If a first responder isn't up on the latest tactics needed for a new vehicle power source, it is much easier to over apply water than it is to understand that once the ancillary combustables, the plastic trim, upholstery, carpets, etc. have been extinguished to decrease the water flow to the few gallons a minute that are needed to continue to cool the battery to safe levels. If you hear reports that tens of thousands of gallons of water were used for a vehicle fire (BEV or ICE) it is either an over cautious firefighter, or more likely, an ill informed reporter. I did the calculations for the Tesla fire in Houston in 2021 that made all the news because supposedly nobody was in the driver's seat and so everyone assumed FSD was the cause (wasn't true 🙄) I was really skeptical because news reports said that the fire department was "on the scene for four hours and it took 30,000 gallons of water to put the fire out...". For that to be true, the firefighters would have had to have used the standard 1.75" handline at near its full capacity for the FULL FOUR HOURS they were on the scene. 125 gpm X 240 minutes = 30,000 gallons. Let me assure you that no normal human can handle the nozzle force of that handline for an entire hour, much less four hours. Sure, they could have swapped out nozzlemen, but even then, that's not how firefighters spend four hours on the scene of a fire. The most likely scenario it that the firefighters arrived on the scene of a fully involved vehicle fire, dumped a quick 100-150 gallons on it to knock the fire back, then shut down the nozzle to evaluate what they had. They noticed the two bodies inside and either called for an ambulance or the coroner (depending on the condition of the victims). Pulled them out if treatment was a possibility, or notified crime scene investigators if clearly no treatment would help. They would have doused any flare-ups for the next hour or so as the battery cells heated each other up and reignited. The only reason firefighters stayed on the scene so long is that the police investigators didn't want them disturbing the "crime scene" in a way that ensuring final extinguishment would have required.
I’m a marine engineer on a ro-ro ferry and part of the fire team on board and a volunteer fire fighter with my home town department. It’s been an uphill battle trying to quell the fears of captains and crew in both locals. I’ve pointed out the fact that we’ve never had an EV fire onboard or in my village, but there have been dozens of ICE fires. The numbers cited here have gone a long way in changing minds, but there are holdouts, (they’re usually also into flat earth and don’t like needles, soooo).
One thing you didn't mention is how quickly EVs burn vs ICEVs. Look at the graph at 10:53. It shows the ICE getting to peak temperature, and triggering the sprinklers, almost immediately. The EV takes 15 minutes before reaching the same temperature, and triggering the sprinklers. This means that in the very rare chance that your EV does catch fire, you've got plenty of time to evacuate the car. You've not got the same chance in an ICEV.
This is an important point. The chance of getting caught in an ice fire is significantly higher. I had to argue this with an electrician working on my house recently who said he'd never get an ev due to the fire risk. I pointed out a few things including getting out. Hopefully it had an effect but I Doubt it. haters gotta hate.
People always mention how long EV fires last which is an indication that the quantity of heat produced per unit of time is less=less intense. The problem with the ICE is the heat from the gasoline fire becomes extremely intense very quickly leaving no chance to escape.
This is not true, in the last 60 days or so, in Toronto Ontario, there was a Tesla single vehicle accident, the driver was likely going too fast, he did lose control and hit a guardrail, likely at the end. It broke up the battery pack. (which is why I think it hit the end and sliced it up like a knife.) According to observers who tried to help, the fire was instantaneous and hot. there were 5 people in the car, and they managed to extract 1 person, 4 died. Sorry, but this single accident counters most claims about electric cars. If you own a Tesla, drive friends in a Tesla, make sure all occupants know how to use the emergency/manual door release before driving anywhere. Drill it in every time you drive.
@@Markcain268 Because finding out you were wrong makes people angry, and a lot of ICE drivers have been brainwashed to hate EVs before they even saw one.
I don't understand why they should be angry. If it all, it is better to know which Gas cars are prone to possibly start and catch on fire and have to park outside due to this behavior. If they are still stubborn, then that is their problem, they were warned if you have a certain Gas vehicle.
The answer is ALL fuel driven cars are fire hazards, and that lies have been told to make you believe that your ICE car is different, and that they don't blowup in big balls of fire 🔥
Geoff is a proper muppet. He did a series of videos trying to find all the EV fires that week. Completely ignoring any other car fire. Was funny as he had to use one from around the world, where my local county fire service lists what they have attended, I counted 30+ car fires a month but none make the news as they weren't EV's. That was one fire service out of 49 in the UK....
Most of the UK fire brigades document "Electric Vehicle fires", except electric vehicle includes illegal eScooters, e-bikes, mobility carts etc. rarely do they split out Electric cars.
There was a car park fire in Liverpool a few years ago that was very similar to the one at Luton airport. It was also started by a diesel Range Rover and the report stated the fire spread quickly because burning fuel ran across the concrete surface and under adjacent cars where it quickly melted plastic fuel tanks/pipes. The report following a fire as Stavanger airport, started by a petrol powered Renault, said that amongst the several hundred cars were 65 EVs. Despite the structure and all cars being completely burned out none of the EV traction batteries combusted, they even tested the runoff water from firefighting and it contained no battery chemicals. Anecdotally from family in that area, the EV batteries were stripped and the cells sold off for DIY storage projects.
One obvious thing to point out is that as battery chemistries improve, like Lithium Iron Phosphate, the fire risk is MUCH lower than with traditional lithium ion batteries. So far BEV's, having low fire risk a REQUIREMENT for their batteries will help make runaway EV fire risk even lower. OTOH, gasoline will still be the same in ICE and hybrid cars. Of course, those who are in denial that EV's can be a good thing generally only want to hear confirming misinformation -- and to spread the same.
There have always been Lithium chemistries that were less prone to fire, but had lower volumetric and gravimetric densities. It's really only the lithium cobalt aluminum (LCA) chemistries that were adopted as the standard lithium batteries that have significant thermal runaway problems. They were chosen simply because they stored more energy in a given space and weight. It's not THAT big of deal if your cell phone or laptop bursts into flames, you just throw it away from you and there's only 1-6 cells. Since those are the chemistries used consumer electronics and Teslas, the most common electric cars, people think they're ALL lithium batteries. I have yet to hear a report of a single fire in Mitsubishi cars, which have used lithium titanate chemistries since 2011 or Nissan cars, which have used lithium manganese chemistries since 2012, neither even without any active temperature management. It doesn't have to be a new, paradigm shifting chemistry like LFP, sodium ion, sulfur ion, or aluminum ion to eliminate EV fires, just being willing to work with the chemistries that don't thermal runaway and/or self oxidize, and not chasing the absolute maximum storage density with no regard for other potentially catastrophic characteristics.
I’ve been watching your videos for a very long time, and the recent switch to FUD fighting content has been exceptionally interesting to me. I love all the data! And, just bought my first EV! Already gearing up to hear all the nay-sayers when they see it. lol!
Please be careful! When we got our first EV in 2017 every one wanted to race, some tried to run us off the road, pickup trucks “rolled coal” blowing black smoke. They were all angry because my small Model 3 performance could out run their expensive ICE. Please be careful. ❤
Completely anecdotal, but I worked for a car insurance company for several years starting 2019 doing First Notice of Loss reports and eventually Total Loss evaluations. In those 3+ years I took a few reports of fire loss without an accident. Some the car was moving and others the car was parked. But NONE were EVs. Again, just anecdotal, not saying EV fires don't happen, just that I experienced more reports of ICE cars spontaneously combusting vs EVs.
Yes I had a 2020 Kia GAS car and it was one of the dont park inside recall - I got rid of the gas car and bought 2 EVs as they have no such fault. Norway is now 80% Electric and they have reported only one fire and it was a diesel car which was in a garage with 80 EVs and while it burned 4 EVs not one battery caught fire. Every major manufacture has park outside recall but only on GAS cars.
Fact: EVs are far less likely to catch fire than petrol vehicles Worldwide studies show EVs have a far lower risk of catching fire than internal combustion vehicles. The International Energy Agency reports there are now 40 million EVs on the road worldwide. From 2010 to June 2024, EV FireSafe recorded 511 verified passenger EV battery fires across the world. It says 6 EVs caught fire in Australia between 2010 and September 2023. In comparison, there were 2,803 internal combustion vehicle fires in NSW (Australia) alone in the 2022-23 financial year according to Fire and Rescue NSW incident data. In Sweden, there were 23 reported fires in 2022 out of 611,000 electric vehicles (0.004%). Over the same period, 3,400 fires were reported from the nation’s 4.4 million petrol and diesel cars (0.077%).
EVs are a lot less likely to catch fire, that is absolutely true. Although ICE cars tend to be significantly older than the EVs, and given that it's expensive to replace an EV battery, that's probably going to be true forever. However, once they catch fire they're like any battery fueled fire in that they are difficult to put out. Most fire departments do not have the right equipment to put out the fire and the car WILL be totalled in that scenario. Many years ago, my sister was driving an ICE car which had an engine fire. She stopped and used a fire extinguisher, and the fire was put out with minimal damage. A few days later she was driving in the same car again. The likelihood of something like that happening with a battery fire in an EV is almost zero.
@@rodh1404 That is not true. EVs have the cells compartmentalized nowadays, so that runaways are much more rare. That is even better than an ICE fire that can really only be compartmentalized to a few parts, the engine and the gasoline tank since we're talking about a liquid
It's good to see that whenever there is a car fire, many of the comments ask if it was an EV, and people are correcting them saying how unlikely it would be. There are a few special people who argue that the numbers are low because there aren't may EVs. And try as you might, they can't comprehend how percentages work. Probaby among many other things.
I have never seen an EV fire in person, but I have lost count of the number of ICE fires I have seen with my own eyes. In 1982 my BMW 320i caught on fire WHILE I was driving it!
I actually have seen a Tesla burning on the side of an off ramp in Sacramento. On the other hand, my roommate returned home late last night and said she was delayed due to a gas car burning on the freeway.
I had a 82 bmw 320 and it too caught on fire, twice. The intake manifold stud works loose and lets hot oil drip onto the exhaust manifold then caught fire and that melted the plastic (yes high pressure fuel lines) which contributed to the fire. I fixed it both times, it was embarrassing because for Christmas I got 3 fire extinguishers.
@@joecushman6030 Yes, ICE vehicles catch fire a lot more often than EVs. But as you said, those fires can usually be extinguished if you catch them quickly enough, and the car can be repaired. If it's a battery fire in an EV, then the car's usually a write-off no matter how quickly you catch it because battery fires are impossible to extinguish using normal fire-fighting equipment. Very few fire departments have the equipment needed to extinguish them.
Ice cars are a brilliant piece of engineering but have taken a 100 years to get to where they are now. EV’s have already out performed them in less than 10 years and will rapidly improve even more in the next few years .
Actually, EV cars are over 100 years old. The problem with those was battery technology. ICE technology wasn't particularly good then either, but it progressed far more rapidly. Battery technology only relatively recently progressed to the point where it can compete against ICE technology. Check out Jay Leno's Garage, he has a video about a 100 year old EV that still runs (albeit not with original batteries).
@@calivalley9056 YES legacy auto knows their profit model and it isnt innovation.. tesla was the first auto company in like 40 years to not go bankrupt
Great segment thanks. I have attended many vehicle fires - all combusion vehicles and mostly well alight by the time we got on scene. And boy do modern vehicles burn! Lots ot toxic fumes. Five that I attended were hybrid vehicles and in every case it was the fuel system that was the source and in no case did the Li battery become involved. But I have been to two structure fires where the ignition source was a Li ion battery - both were cheap electric bikes that were left on charge (one in a garage the other someone's kitchen). The most recent Li ion battery fire was from a damaged power tool (we put them in a large water basin by the way - total immersion). So yes, damaged/ cheap/ poorly constructed Li ion batteries are a fire risk. But modern EVs (from established manufacturers) are not. They have very good battery management systems.
Just watched the video right before signing my new apartment lease that comes with an EV charging spot and the manager told me he'd never drive an EV “because of all the fires”. 🤦♂️ The timing couldn’t have been more perfect! 😂
Is the car park in the building or separate? It's great that they are providing chargers, and the EV fire risk is exaggerated, but I think charging EVs in the basement of an apartment block is not a good balance of risk.
@adrianthoroughgood1191 if you ignore the facts, like Ben has done so many times in the past, you'd say things like this. In reality, gas car fires are really a lot more intense than an EV. Because of that, underground parking garages are already up to spec for EVs, also in these rare cases.
It's simply stupefying that anti EV people somehow think that gasoline is not flamable. We have been driving on top of a 10 or 15 or up to 36 gallon gas bombs all our lives, and yet they claim batteries are the issue. Yet, they want manufacturers to place a battery next to a gas tank on hybrids, because... you know, the gasoline will put out the fire?😂
Yes but you need an ignition source. Lithium Ion batteries may spontaneously combust 24/7, develop quickly and burn hot and are difficult to extinguish. They have been causing fires well before they were put into cars.
@michael.randall5034 That's nothing but FUD. Stop watching misinformation. But even by your own FUD, read my statement carefully. On a hybrid, you have a battery AND a gas tank in the same vehicle. And what's an ignition source for gasoline? A simple spark. And just to clarify it for you, on avarage there are roughly 500 ICE fires every day in America alone. While on average there is only one EV fire every other month or longer. Which is why the media covers them. Imagine trying to stay up with 500 ICE fires every single day.
Comparing a battery with a fuel tank is an apples and oranges comparison. A battery is a complete energy deliver system of many parts that is designed to move energy out of the battery to where it's needed. A fuel tank is just a energy container, which is more equivalent to the Lithium within the battery, with both being stable without an external ignition source and the right conditions to ignite. The more exact comparitor in a gas car is the fuel tank, lines, pump and 12v battery not just the tank by itself. And oddly this gas fuel system can also self ignite.
In Australia, Ludicrous Feed reported that there were in total 8 BEV fires since 2021 from more than 180000 BEVs. 1 was arson, 3 were external fire that extended to the vehivles, 3 were involved in high speed collision with 1 case of unknown cause.
Well done Ben, setting the record straight. You have no need to apologise. Here in Australia , only 2 EVs have caight fire in the last 20 years,( according to the fire department) and one of those was trapped in a garage of a house which was on fire. In contrast, GM once made cars here called the 'Holden Cruise' which was plagued by transmission failures and engine fires. (We nick-named it the "Holden Curse"). Around 15 years ago, so many were catching fire they NEVER got a mention in the news. Around 300 every week, nationally, so a burning GM fossil fuelled car was SO commonplace, it was not newsworthy. It stands to reason if your car is powered by flammable liquids, you are going to have fires. It's a lot harder to get a battery to ignite.
Was there an official 'park outdoors recall' on the Chevy Bolt in 2020/2021? They did get a software patch while a battery replacement or buy back program occurred. It was all due to a large batch with poor quality control from LG Chem - a clearly known and understood manufacturing fault.
Yes there was a park outdoors recall for the Bolt. I think the fact that I lived in an apartment and couldn’t park away from everything got my battery replaced quickly. I was definitely a squeaky wheel in my efforts to get a buyback, so I’m sure that helped as well.
@@brendykes1202strange that video author said there were 0 park outside recalls for EVs. I'm a bit concerned he did his analysis by just looking at the manufactures and dividing them in the EV and legacy, counting Chevy as ICE even when it applied to an EV. It's important to do these things properly. "No EV only manufacturers had fire recalls" is not the same thing as "no EVs had fire recalls".
@@adrianthoroughgood1191 Yeah, I agree, that's a hair that Ben should've split with regard to such a public and well known EV park outside recall. It just gives people reasons to disregard everything else he has to say. Scale wise, the Bolt recall wouldn't significantly change the results of his analysis, in fact, if you separate all the EVs from traditional manufacturers it may make ICEs look even worse since I've never heard of any fires or fire related recalls in Nissan and Mitsubishi models which may be offsetting the Chevy recall numbers. I'm not sure where Ford falls in that range.
I remember that back in the 60’s people were complaining that oil companies were stopping electric cars coming to market. Then in the 70’s and the 80’s etc. Now that EV’s are here, the haters are s……ng bricks. I have an like and own both types of cars. All I want is the truth. Many thanks Ben.
Park outside is not an issue in Florida since we dont have attics (that can safely store anything) or basements, everything goes in the garage except automobiles.
My 2022 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 4xe (PHEV) is part of a park outside recall. That current recall has around 154,000 cars. The fix was just released to dealers last week.
Another fact that is often overlooked and I’m surprised Ben didn’t mention it. There are different battery technologies being used in EVs these days LiFePo batteries don’t have the same thermal runaway characteristics like NMC batteries. Thus, vehicles with LiFePo batteries are way less likely to catch fire.
I work in tech. A scientist coworker was doing research in Li batteries about 15 years ago. That program experienced a Li battery fire that was contained in a “fire-proof” oven. The local fire department responded and said “just let it burn out in the oven”. That lesson stuck with me. When I decided to lease a 2013 Volt (with a pretty small battery pack) I made the conscious decision to NEVER park or charge electric vehicles in my garage. There after we leased a 2016 Volt. Years later, some neighbors two blocks away were awakened at 2 am by a fire alarm. They had two Model S parked and charging in the garage. One of them experienced “thermal runaway” which ignited the other Model S. Due to there smoke detectors, these fine people escaped there home alive but the home was very seriously damaged by the fire. They were displaced for about a year before they might move back into the house. Going forward … I’ll continue to purchase EVs but I’ll not ever park them in my home. Just saying.
I had NEVER once given ANY thought to the dangers of my Fossil fuel cars or motorbikes catching fire..I can't even remember ever reading about any fires in the news....even though there were literally thousands a year....and Yet they make very BIG scary headlines of every electric car or bike fire.
I did not need this in the news...Yes many cars came in the news while burning since my childhood 60 years ago. Because in 1995 my neighbours car went up in flames in the middle of the night ...high as the rooftops of our houses. I woke up through the noice...also a few others. We had to alarm all car owners in the street with a car nearby...some of those already got melting plastics when the onwer arrived to repark it ffurther away. Yes within minutes this severe. My personal experience only is about this ICE car fire..... Luckily far enough away to keep the houses safe.
I love that you categorize the two vehicle types as "EV" and "Combustible" vehicles. 😁 Funny twist on an EV fire video - that Dinosaur vehicles are even worse than we thought.
Are you telling me America's consumer protections are so bad that you can still call a recall a recall when it doesn't actually recall the product? These brands just tell consumers to park their fire risk outside so it (hopefully) does less damage when it explodes, rather than actually RECALLING the vehicle, fixing the issue or replacing it at their expense? For real!?
You are correct, apparently sprinklers are not mandatory there. A video of the diesel hybrid land rover that started the fire showed the tell-tale lithium red-hued flames coming from the hybrid battery under the driver compartment when the driver first abandoned the car to get away.
@@rafalklepinski7372 The official report states "The subsequent fire investigation confirmed that the vehicle was powered by a diesel non-hybrid internal combustion engine." No lithium battery involved, just a good old fashioned diesel fire.
How soon we forget, remember GM advising Chevy Bolt EV and EUV owners to park their car outside because they were catching fire Eventually GM issued a recall and provided battery swap to solve the problem then GM stopped manufacturing both Chevy Bolts.
The problem with multi-storey car park fires involving ice vehicles, is that the burning fuel spreads through the car park drains. That's why so many cars catch fire.
@@BenSullinsOfficialthere was also an airport car park fire at Liverpool airport a few years ago. Ice car source, report again said fire spread via burning fuel though drains.
Correct - plastic fuel tanks burst, spilling gallons of burning liquid fuel which gravity then distributes to floors below via water drains and stairways.
As a firefighter I can tell you for a fact that BEV fire is way harder to suppress than a ICE fire, and sometimes the best thing for us to do is simply protect exposures until it burns itself out, even if fires are suppressed in a BEV there is quite a significant chance of thermal runaway causing reignition at some stage even months after accident which is causing a rethink in the motor vehicle wrecking/recycling industry in regards to yard storage. From a vehicle crash perspective their are also different rescue methods used on a BEV to access injured drivers due design differences for both the safety of responders and casualties...all modern vehicles are engineering marvels in regards to crash worthiness in regards to protecting the passengers, the downside is many of the vehicle safety features are quite dangerous for responders trying to access the vehicle and adding a dirty great traction battery has certainly added a difficulty layer to Fire and Rescue response. Interestingly from a catching a fire perspective due to faults etc. the stats and data has shown the vehicle to most likely to catch fire and disproportionally so are hybrid vehicles for some reason, BEV are right at the bottom of the list in regards to vehicles fires.
Engineer's perspective: the reason hybrids are disproportional in risk is that they need both drivetrains compressed in to a relatively small space. In the best case you've taken the risk of a combustion car catching fire and added it to the risk of a BEV, but in reality it's hot engine parts, extra complexity, and a small footprint resulting in the EV parts being in non-optimal places and being subjected to temperatures and mechanical stresses that they normally wouldn't have to deal with. I think most people would like a BEV if it weren't for bad information, and that they are safer, but I would rather they get a gas car over a hybrid if it came down to it. (Or obviously various situations where an EV isn't right for them of course)
Im kinda old and in my life I've sat and watched quiet a few gas cars burn while the Fire Dept was trying to put it out. Also seen even more end results of car fires that I didn't witness. The result has always been a charred skeleton of what was once a car. I've never seen one where I thought, "Whew! glad the firemen showed up! Might be able to save some parts from that car". No not once. Now maybe i've just never seen the ones where they put it out quickly. Could be, but I think for the most part even with a firetruck the car will burn to the ground. So EV's also burn to the ground? Hmmm so that means same friggin end result right? So how come with gas cars they don't just let em burn and instead try to contain the fire so it doesn't affect adjacent cars or structures? I mean if they always burn to nothing then why are folks like OHHHH EVS are Sooo much worse its unstoppable! We can only contain it! Even on the sides of highways where there is nothing else around I would think be it a Semi, gas car or EV just let it burn out.
A reasoned response. From an unschooled view, I would say the jets of toxic metallic gas at the least would make EV fires more fearsome. And once a fuel fire is smothered and cooled, its largely a clean up and haul away problem. The EV remains a potential bomb, even if brought to ambient temperature. But the Luton and Lisbon airport fires, as well as the car carrier fires, are what chill me. If any group of vehicles can start or join in on a firestorm like that, yikes. I don't remember this being a thing. A Luton responder said a sprinkler system would have helped, but they weren't required. Thoughts?
Think one of them is lithium hexafluorophosphate? And hydroflouric acid. Bunch of others, one of them causes paralysis when it land on skin apparently...
The problem with the fake news media is they’ll report something they know is false with big headlines. When they get called out on it, they will issue a retraction that’s barely noticeable. The only thing people remember was the fake news they reported as true
My daughter, here in Michigan, has a 2018 Pacifica Plug in Hybrid. She received a recall notice and AFTER taking the car in the dealership for 3 days, she was told NOT to park in the garage or near the house AND never charge it. Yesterday it was 21 degrees F. and there her car sits, uncharged, out in the cold. The 2020 and beyond are not affected, so at least the newer EV's don't pose this risk.
I've seen the effects of three car fires in the last few years: Two were Diesel trucks that caught fire on the interstate, and one was a gas vehicle parked in a family member's garage, which burned the home to the ground.
My 2022 Ford Escape Plug in hybrid was recalled due to risk of fire and explosion. We were advised to park outside. The fix turned out to be a software fix. Imagine a junior programmer coded if temperature > threshold then StartFire = True; Explode = True.
Gas cars are 19 times more likely to catch fire than an EV but hybrids are almost 50 times more likely to catch fire since they have the worst characteristics of both.
Similar to what happened this year in the Philippines, an ice vehicle burst into flames at the international airport. Luckily no one was injured and it was at the open parking. Less than 100 vehicles burned down as well due to the incident
@BenSullinsOfficial it's the fossil fuel and legacy auto propaganda against ev. Truth is that in 5 years, the only car manufacturers left will be Tesla and Chinese ev manufacturers. It's a kodak or apple moment for legacy auto. And the next thing you can debunk is "how long ev batteries last" and where used ev batteries goto ( hint: not landfills)
Insurance companies figures are coming in with these stats: 3500 per 100000 hybrids. 1200 per 100000 ICE 25 per 100000 pure EV's Please google as this will confirm but include the words "insurance companies" as you will want facts not propaganda.
Hi Ben. I Do Electric engineering. For EVs. Just to make it absolutely clear. A EV fire. Aka Thermal runaway is self sustaining and really hard to put out and the smoke is very toxic. It is very hard to put out and you need the vehicle to be towed and placed away from anything flammable+ the water used will get quite polluted. But all statistics support the narrative that an EV fire is at least a factor 6 less likely than a ICE vehicle.
@adrianthoroughgood1191 It help cooling down. If you reach the lower threshold for thermal runaway, then it will stop spreading. And the gasses are poisonous, so letting it burn for maybe days is usually not an option. There are special containers to put out the fire and cool the batteries. That will also remove the chance of the fire spreading.
I started laughing when I saw the title, I had just re-watched “the Good Place” where Michael referred to something so rare as “when someone on the internet says “you know what? You’ve convinced me that I’m wrong”
Cool intro. I love it! And I agree 100% from the evidence i have seen, as a professional tow 8:13 truck driver. By far, the most likely one to catch fire, are diesel bmw's. And most of the burned ev's i have picked up, were burned because the gas car next to it, had caught on fire first. Actually, the only ev fires I can think of, where the battery pack had been on fire, were a couple of plug in hybrids, Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV... I once picked up a totally burned out husk of an Audi E-tron... Only the battery pack (intact) and the high strength steel impact resistant cage vere remaining.
They made a mistake the recall pretained to the Jeep 4xe models. All jeep wranglers with the 4xe system were issued a do not park inside order. Lithium fires are very much indeed very dangerous, especially if the battery pack suffers from water damage. Newer ev's utilize lifepo4 battery chemistry which does make things safer but it is in no way perfect
Even all modern EVs are much safer than any 'combustible' car in particular, and also safer than a lot of lithium battery vehicles and devices (e-scooters, rechargeable power drills, electric mowers, phones, etc). EVs have a battery management system (BMS) which is designed to monitor and control the EV battery system, especially to cool it during use and charging, or even in its general state (eg. yesterday during our extreme heat day I noticed that the Ioniq 6's vent flaps had opened for a time to cool the battery after I had opened to door and then locked the car). The vast majority of fire call-outs to 'lithium home fires' by fire services are to these devices which are SO common, are charged at home *all the time* and lack any sort of BMS to prevent thermal runaway.
@@petesig93 not true at all. Every single lithium battery with multiple cells has a BMS that offers at least cell balancing and overheat protection. Without a BMS, rechargable batteries would quickly lose cell balance and be completely useless after a few charge cycles. Thermal runaway is caused from the breakdown of the barrier between the anode and cathode of the battery. This can be happen with 3 different conditions. Cell breakdown from charging or discharging too quickly, an overheat condition, or corrosion from exposure to water or extreme moisture. Ev fires are actually fairly common when you take into account the fact that they make up a small portion of vehicles on the road and are relatively new. It is also quite telling that transportation companies and junkyards are now required to exercise strict standard when handling ev's that have been in accidents. Combustion cars are much more stable than ev's are at the moment. Especially considering once burning, an ev is inherently hard to extinguish and is still at risk of reigniting even days after a fire is put out.
When i was a kid we had a Mercury Topaz, one day while driving smoke started billowing out of the steering column. We pulled over in a parking lot and the car burnt beyond repair. We were 4 kids and my mom in the car. Within a minute of the first smoke there were flames and the rest of the car went quite fast. Thankfully no one got hurt. A year later we did get a recall letter for a fire issue due to wiring on the ignition, A little late for that lol
3 years ago at Sola Airport in Norway there was a fire similar to the one at Luton Airport. Everyone was pretty sure that the fire started in an EV. After a few days it was revealed that the fire started in an Opel Zafira diesel car. Several hundred cars were destroyed in this fire.
I got a recall years ago saying I shouldn't park my car in the garage. It was an '07 Porsche Panamera. It was because of a fuel line leaking onto something (some weird thing where it was leaking after shutting it down). I, of course, ignored it and kept the car in the garage. Still no fires in any of my cars, including 2 EVs.
Then we compare different battery types in newer EV's such as LFP that do not want to burn after being punctured several times. Gas or petrol is flammable, yet people seem to ignore this and are happy to park them at their homes. Great video.
@@aliendroneservices6621 Are you serious, or having a joke?? You put liquid gasoline into your tank if you drive an ICE car. Would you smoke or light a match at that time?? It gives off gases that mix with the oxtgen and become highly flammable. Look at the trucks delivering it and they are all marked with the hazardous symbol for flammable. I would not recommend pouring liquid gasoline onto a fire, it will not work like water and put it out.
In January of 1995 a coworker parked his red 1978 Dodge pickup truck in an above-ground parking structure. The temperature was about -26°F and his truck would not start. He came back early the next morning, a Saturday, with tools and jumper cables to get his truck running. Unfortunately, his engine caught fire and the entire truck was engulfed in flames. Fortunately, there were no other cars around. He made a comment about the fact that a purely concrete parking structure had no fire extinguishers. Go figure. Anyway, about a week later he came into the office and told me he bought a shiny new pickup truck. I asked him what color it was to which he replied "Black". I said "Oh, just like your old one😊" He grinned and said "A**hole"😊
There seem to be a rise of random parked car fires, mostly due to overcomplicated electrical systems, computer controls etc. I recently had transmission control module wires chewed by a mouse, causing $1000 damage. They put in all these smart, complicated fragile electronics in the cars, but leave these wires hanging without enough protection from moisture, corrossion and wild life.
As someone who personally had a Nissan 200SX gasoline car catch on fire on me, while I was driving, almost taking my life, I'll NEVER drive another gasoline fire combustion engine again! I'll stick with my EV's, from here on out. OV's (oil vehicles) are 50 times more likely to catch on fire, I'll never listen to anyone hating on EV's with false fire opinions.
I work in a facility that develops BEV and other alternative fuels (and regular) for heavy equipment. All battery packs are stored outside in a shed due to past thermal events. Batteries don't just explode for no reason and these were possibly caused by non visible damage or manufacturing issues. It is a reminder that battery packs and power electronics are not less parts than an internal combustion engine. I read that a tesla battery pack can have 7k batteries, which are all individually welded and tons of electronics for charging, equalizer, safety, etc. Lots of things can go wrong. I have a healthy fear of lithium ion batteries due to first and second hand experiences with them (like name brand drill batteries catch on fire) None of this is to discount the data that this is also a problem with ICE vehicles. I do find it disturbing that this video is more about "ICE more dangerous than "BEV" than "the rate of both ICE and BEV fires are unacceptable "
"I read that a Tesla battery pack can have 7k batteries..." Only the original (circa 2008) Tesla Roadster contained 7k cells: "the Tesla Model that contains the most individual cells is the Tesla Roadster, which utilizes *_6,831 18650-type cells_* in its battery pack" (Google AI)
I think going forward there should be a ban on basement car parks in new buildings, especially residential buildings. If you have 100 cars of any type the odds of one of them going up and destroying the entire building is too high to ignore. I think car parks should be separate.
Idk how it is in other countries but in the past in my country when the news talks about car fires they always include the fact that it was an electric vehicle that caught fire. They don’t do that anymore because even if they show a car on fire that is clearly a combustion car, ppl still say that it is somehow an EV.
My first car, a 72 Toyota Corolla (from before the requirement for catalytic converters etc) caught fire one time in 125000 miles. I stopped at a gas station, opened the hood, and saw smoke. It appeared to be an electrical fire. I rushed into the station, said I had a fire and where was the fire extinguisher. The attendent didn't seem concerned at all and continued serving someone else. I eventually found the extinguisher. Thankfully, the fire hadn't spread enough to keep me from putting it out. It made me wonder if they dealt with fires on a regular basis. Today we have 2 EVs. No fires yet;-)
You nailed it :) To think we all have multiple li-on batteries in our bedrooms for the last 15 years, and we are still alive -that should be some miracle.
There's something missing here. There should be readily available info on how lithium ion battery fires produce their own oxygen and so are difficult to extinguish. I've seen so much evidence that it's empirical fact as far as I'm concerned. BEVs should be worse than plugin hybrids due to the larger packs.
EV fires are more difficult to extinguish because the batteries go into thermal runaway and reignite after the original fire has been put out. ICE vehicles tend to go boom when the gas vapour ignites and the fire engine is only left to put out the remnant of the fire. Putting out an EV fire requires a much longer suppression time to control the overall temperature of the remaining batteries.
That is right. There are hundreds of bus fires a year in London, many started by electrical faults and the like rather than by the engine/battery/drive system - not to mention arson. Diesel bus fires are normally put out without causing major damage, but with an electric bus the fire brigade just have to let them burn themselves out and try to stop the fire spreading. Temperatures over 10,000°C have been recorded in EV bus fires. The problem is if a fire happened in an enclosed space it would spread - if a bus garage full of EVs caught fire at night it would be truly catastrophic (and some bus garages are located underneath developments). The Luton airport fire is an interesting case as while fire did not start in an EV, there were doubtless many EVs and hybrids parked in the car park which once the fire spread no doubt contributed to the intensity of the blaze and the speed of its spread. I am not anti-EV at all, but this whole issue of EV fire risks has simply not been recognised as an issue until very recently and is still very poorly understood.
@@robertmunster1959 Exactly. EV battery fires CAN be put out, but very few fire departments have the equipment to do so. And that equipment can't be carried in a regular passenger vehicle. Which means in nearly all cases of EV battery fires, the EV in question is a complete write-off. While ICE vehicles can catch fire and burn to the ground too, there are plenty of examples of someone catching the fire early enough and putting it out using a fire extinguisher carried in the vehicle itself. Often, the vehicle can then be repaired and safely return to the road.
@@robertmunster1959I didn't think EVs were popular enough in the UK to have "many" of them in a carpark? So what you're saying is that while an EV wasn't responsible for the fire, it was still responsible for the fire.
Just for your info I worked for the fire brigade for 30 years and spent time in fire investigation. An investigation such as this would take weeks if not months yet it is astonishing they could come up with a likely cause so quickly and saying it occurred in a diesel car. But what is the cause and how did it occur???? The other thing that astonishes me is that a diesel car fire is so easy to extinguish yet the airport fire service and the Bedfordshire fire service could not be put out. Where is that vehicle now. We would all love to know.
THANK YOU! Britain is captured by ideology, so listening to their rushed conclusion makes no sense. How does paraffin wax continuously burn in open air?
Fantastic job! Thank you so much for going out of your way to fight FUD. I'll keep on following your channel for as long as you do. However, please check the correct pronunciation for names such as Luton, Bedfordshire, or Hertfordshire. The Brits would warm up to you in great numbers. 😊
Volunteer firefighter here. We've had no issues with EV's, but plenty of call outs to fires of cheap, Chinese scooters with dodgy chargers. A good charger will switch off when the battery is charged, but the cheap ones can overcharge the battery, leading to thermal runaway and a fire and most scooters are charged inside. What we've been recommending is to buy a plug in timer and don't leave them on charge all the time.
On our roadtrip this summer (in the model Y) we passed 3 burned shells of combustion cars off the side of the road on I-70. My parents VW Passat burnt to a crisp when they got out of the car for snacks at a rest stop a few years ago (something with the wiring).
My wife's 2022 Chevy Bolt EV had a park outside recall due to the battery's potential to spontaneously combust. Once the entire battery pack was replaced, we were then advised we can park inside again. I fully believe EVs are much safer in many regards, but due to my first hand experience of a park outside recall with our Bolt EV, it is safe to say that even EVs are not immune to this sort of recall.
I wish you had covered the Bolt battery issue. It leaves your whole videos being seen weak or not including that, the obvious park outside for EVs… would have loved you to show how little those vehicles were compared to all EVs in the US.
His analysis seems to be very flawed. Several people have reported ev PORs. I'm wondering if he actually just meant Tesla and rivian have had no PORs rather than there have been no EV PORs.
I am heavily pro EVs, and drive one, however there is one piece of info you might not know. Although EV fire ratios in most of the world are 20-30 times lower than ICE cars, the same is not true of domestic Chinese EVs, where a recent report BY A CHINESE GOVERNMENT SCIENTIST stated that EV fires in China, were 7-10x more likely than an ICE car fire. I have also seen a video of a woman burning to death in a Chinese EV, after it burst into flames while driving, - and deadlocked the doors, so she could not escape. Now, Chinese EVs for export are supposedly made to far higher standards than those for the internal market - but with internal sales collapsing, due to the economic woes, how many of those cars are being diverted to sell in other countries?? I know for a fact, that smart phones made for the internal Chinese market are being overwritten with International ROMs and sold to unsuspecting international customers - these phones often have a very different hardware spec to the version people expect to receive, to the point they may not work with the local cellular networks.
I seen a story recently that a fire department put out an BEV fire with blanket specifically designed to to suppress the oxygen. I think once more fire departments get this tech you'll rarely see this as an issue for BEV's
A blanket won’t work of EV fires. The batteries contain both the fuel, and their own oxidiser so no external oxygen is required. This is why you will find videos of EV’s burning even when submerged under water. The only way to deal with battery fires is to keep the undamaged cells cool to prevent them from also going into thermal runaway (well, that or just let it burn itself out).
@bear4278 I went to the website of the company after making the comment and I recall they said it was to prevent the battery for from spreading and starting any more fires.
We just had 2 EV fires in one day in Bratislava, Slovakia... EV6 after crash - fire put out after 30 minutes and then ID.4 parked after charging. Also put out in 10 minutes (and then drown in EV fire container). And we also had one diesel golf that burned in a spectacular way, while the driver was inside driving it (he got out)! Also burned for about 15 minutes. Then we had one ID.3 burned, but that was arson and no, battery did not catch on fire even when the whole car was burned (well except battery).
The problem with Li battery fires is that the battery chemistry produces it's own oxygen when burning and produce over 2500 degrees of heat with out-gassing making large explosions and because of this they are almost impossible to put out without very specialised equipment and near enough the same amount of water as a very large swimming pool plus have a problem with reigniting. And to add insult to injury the gasses coming off the fire are so bad that you can have your quality of life ruined from breathing them in and/or skin contact.
Was there a "park outside" recall for the Ford cruise control issue? I was watching a video that was supposed to be a serpentine belt replacement and as the guy was talking, there was a POP and immediately flames coming could be seen billowing up from the right side of the engine compartment. Fortunately the guy had a fire extinguisher and put it out. My Ford Ranger had that recall. The recall was on all kinds of Fords
Another good video. I’m not at all surprised that Hyundai/Kia have the highest number of fires. In my experience (having owned two Kia’s), their quality is sub-par and I can see issues with their electrical systems. Fuel systems in general are pone to fires. In the past three years that I’ve been paying attention, I’ve seen about a dozen vehicle fires, which are ICE and zero EV fires. I live in Los Angeles with 15 million of my closest friends and drive an average of 24,000 miles per year.
Hyundai/Kia seem to have improved the quality of cars the last few years and Hyundai has become premium in the EV space . I wonder if that also translates to fires?
Hyundai/Kia seem to have improved the quality of cars the last few years and Hyundai has become premium in the EV space . I wonder if that also translates to fires?
You have to ask the question though, whether it's a BEV, a hybrid or an ICE vehicle: what was the cause, the "spark" that caused the fire? In the case of the BEV or hybrid it could well have been the lithium battery going into thermal runaway. In the case of the ICEV it could be an electrical fault, or a fuel leak onto a hot engine. Whatever the case, this is all due to faulty design and shoddy safety standards in the industry, which is not something that is specific to one form of drivetrain, but is more manufacturer specific. At one point, GM had a massive recall of their Bolt EV's due to faulty batteries from LG Chem, something that was specific, not even to the vehicle manufacturer but to the battery manufacturer.
Thanks a lot for your work, I really appreciate it. There is an incredible need of people like you, able to search for data and expose lies and fake news
My 2013 Sonata was under a recall and we were advised not to park affected cars in our garages. It took about a year for Hyundai to come up with a fix and get parts to dealers. This one involved a fuel line that could be damaged.
I had never really ever heard anything about fossil fuel vehicles catching fire .. So I actually did believe every fire I was suddenly hearing about must be an electric vehicle, and almost thinking it was weird to hear that it was often an ICE vehicle.
My 1993 Lincoln Mark 8 caught fire while parked. Fortunately I caught it right when it began. Brake fluid reservoir wall problem. they used to call it flaming Fords
Thank you, thank you, thank you so much for this in-depth study on car fires. My friends that dislike EV's only concentrate on fires in them, and not iICE engines. Keep up the great work!!
Thanks Ben for pointing out the Luton airport fire (pronounced 'Loo-tun' btw). I'm a British guy living in France and I keep track of the EV market and the anti-EV channels such as 'Geoff buys cars'. Despite his and others jumping on the misinformation bandwagon wrt to car fires, EV sales in the UK have risen every month this year and in November passed the 25% mark of new car sales. Overall BEV sales rose by 18% in 2024 over 2023. The numbers in France are similar.
This reminds of the reporting of shark attacks. When the media decides to report a whole bunch of shark attacks, people get the impression that the incidents of shark attacks are increasing, then they start thinking its too dangerous to go for a swim at a beach. But reality is that statically the chances of shark attacks are very minimal, and their hasn't been a uptick in attacks, it is just more that attention has been put on it more at the time. But things are much worse these days, because much of the info put out now is deliberately disinfo.
EVs may create more temperature in one localized spot but it’s the rate of heat emissions that kill. If gas fires burned as long as EV fires, the gas cars would be safer. BC EVs burn slower, there is plenty of time to exit the vehicle. Gas fires engulf the ICE vehicle so rapidly that the person is suffocated in minutes.
Thanks everyone for joining me today! And please forgive the clickbait in order to get the facts out there, unfortunately it's what the algorithm requires. Sources as always are in the description and if you'd like to support data-driven journalism like this consider becoming a member here! youtube.com/@benSullinsOfficial/join
You should have a debate with StacheD channel host that seems super biased like that other squeaky voice dude
Now you just need to make another apology video for your pronunciation of Luton. 😜
Do what you gotta do, man.
@BenSullinsOfficial The last graph you showed is very interesting. To me, it looks like the energy this flowrate of water can dissipate is so much that it will dwarf any heatsource in any vehicle. Good to know those systems have this kind of "power". I find the time before and after the water flow might also reveal significant information. The ev took longer to reach high enough temperatures to trigger the suppression system than the icev. The icev temperatures also noticeably lowered on their own after the suppression system stopped for 10min. The ev graph is unfortunately cut to early to see when the temperatures lowered on their own. I have heard that ev fires can stay very hot for longer and sometimes restart after they have been suppressed. To me, this graph does not completely disprove those statements.
there ust be a tsunami of fires from the millions of EV's on the road. Only "ICE" cars never explode....
Newsflash, the entire oil industry HATES EVs and will spend a LOT of money convincing you they're crap and terrible and will explode.. funny that.
Include legacy auto manufacturers, auto parts manufacturers, auto dealers, car sales people, Quick lube establishments, auto parts stores and mechanics on that list as well. They all hate EV’s because it puts their jobs on the line. Personally I love my Tesla and have turned into a real fanboy as a result of actually owning one.
@@fergyspoolshots Add magazine car reviewers to that list who get paid by these same entities.
That's what I call cutting through the BS. It's really as simple as that.
Yeah, that's why I don't take much notice of most things on UA-cam
Oil industry hates EVs because EVs are the only vehicle type that you can make your own fuel at home. You don't need a gas station or a refinery an thus you don't need most of the oil industry.
Every single person I've encountered that is against my EV Doesn't know anything about my ev
Ohhh, they think they know. They are usually the same ones that won't listen to 'mainstream media', are against vaccines, flouride etc. But the misinformation on EV's peddled thru the same mainstream media - they'll believe that all day long.
They don't need to, because most of them are paid up members of the "don't bother me with the facts, because I've made my mind up" club.....
Do you charge it in doors?
Or I presume anything about I.C.E vehicles and their fuel-injection process? That's partly what this video about - I.C.E vehicles aren't exactly the paragon of safety and more-so, lately, even more recalls and concerns that surprise even those who don't own any cars, or have no qualms car-pooling in them. It's a kind of 'the more you know' thing, as Americans say, or glass houses and throwing stones thing.
This is the most common experience for EV owners i have the same problem with my extended family
Only problem these days is people don't believe the facts even when clearly presented.
Yeah, I had a friendly message exchange with one who said that the Luton fire was an EV, when I pointed him in the direction of the fire report, he decided it was falsified by the government to support their EV agenda. You cannot win arguments like that.
Not all people, only the trump people.
"Only problem these days is people don't believe the facts even when clearly presented.": That's not just 'these days'. That is the case since gods / God / Allah showed up. It is all bollocks. Religious persons don't believe in facts. Bur what indeed is different now: there is now a much widespreading of fairy tales, promoted by influencers and other lying people, who had only a small audience before social media exploded. The thing is: it is legal to tell lies. That should be illegal, and it should be fined heavily.
That's the main issue. How do you convince someone of something when no matter the data you present to them, they think you're lying. Makes no sense
@@cre8tvedge Unfortunately, no. These days, liberals are equally irrational, at least when it comes to Elon and anything he touches.
Who knew that a car powered by a highly combustible fuel and with combustion in its title might suffer from a combustion problem.
Crazy right?!
And in the last chart with the rising temperatures, the ICE car gets too hot for humans within under a minute, maybe 30 seconds (hotter than 50°C and quickly above 100°C where water boils).
And the EV takes about 8 minutes to get too hot (over 50 °C). More time for the rescue, more chances to get out. Single battery cells explode and burn at first, but not the whole car. And the newer cells, the LFP cells don't burst in flames as easily as the first generation of EV batteries, the ordinary lithium batteries. So, even more time for the rescue. And the LFP battery would not start to burn easily. Many new cars have an LFP battery.
A fire that can be extinguished immediately by smothering it. Lithium battery fires cannot be extinguished.
@@whatcouldgowrong7914 Although problematic, it is not quite true to state you cannot extinguish a fire in a lithium battery. Lithium batteries can suffer from what is known as thermal runaway, so the trick is to cool them to the point that runaway is supressed. Under ordinary circumstances a well designed EV battery will not suffer from runaway even if punctured. It will be designed to mitigate thermal runaway by thermally isolating cells, should it occur allowing the fire to be supressed by excluding oxygen and water cooling.
Much of the bad press for lithium batteries comes from early less well designed EV batteries or an assumption that EV batteries are the same as cheap e-scooter or hoverboard batteries.
I would add that you can add Well Head, Refinery, Sea Tanker, Storage Depot, Road Tanker and Filling Station fires to the list of problematic fires associated with Internal Combustion Engines.
@@whatcouldgowrong7914 ..because most of the energy went out in the initial explosion. That does not happen in battery fires, so it takes longer to put out.
Here in the UK my local supermarket had a car fire , it was instantly reported on social media as an EV fire even though it wasn't.
I'm shock, our media lied to us?
So common these days unfortunately :(
This has been solved with a lithium fire blanket in 2022
Even if the story moves to report the fire was not an EV, you still get people saying "the media is lying now and it probably was an EV". So you can't win.
@@stephenlee5929 What makes it worse is they are not necessarily intentionally lying, it's just that the myth of EV fires is so pervasive, people assume ALL car fires are EVs.
I'm a firefighter and I can assure you that if a firefighter uses more water on a BEV fire than an ICEV fire, it's due to ignorance. I'm not trying to be harsh to my colleagues out there, firefighters have to keep up with a LOT of new information. Not just new vehicle technology but also new construction techniques and materials, ever changing EMS protocols, emerging haz mat chemistries and mixtures, etc. If a first responder isn't up on the latest tactics needed for a new vehicle power source, it is much easier to over apply water than it is to understand that once the ancillary combustables, the plastic trim, upholstery, carpets, etc. have been extinguished to decrease the water flow to the few gallons a minute that are needed to continue to cool the battery to safe levels.
If you hear reports that tens of thousands of gallons of water were used for a vehicle fire (BEV or ICE) it is either an over cautious firefighter, or more likely, an ill informed reporter. I did the calculations for the Tesla fire in Houston in 2021 that made all the news because supposedly nobody was in the driver's seat and so everyone assumed FSD was the cause (wasn't true 🙄) I was really skeptical because news reports said that the fire department was "on the scene for four hours and it took 30,000 gallons of water to put the fire out...". For that to be true, the firefighters would have had to have used the standard 1.75" handline at near its full capacity for the FULL FOUR HOURS they were on the scene. 125 gpm X 240 minutes = 30,000 gallons. Let me assure you that no normal human can handle the nozzle force of that handline for an entire hour, much less four hours. Sure, they could have swapped out nozzlemen, but even then, that's not how firefighters spend four hours on the scene of a fire.
The most likely scenario it that the firefighters arrived on the scene of a fully involved vehicle fire, dumped a quick 100-150 gallons on it to knock the fire back, then shut down the nozzle to evaluate what they had. They noticed the two bodies inside and either called for an ambulance or the coroner (depending on the condition of the victims). Pulled them out if treatment was a possibility, or notified crime scene investigators if clearly no treatment would help. They would have doused any flare-ups for the next hour or so as the battery cells heated each other up and reignited. The only reason firefighters stayed on the scene so long is that the police investigators didn't want them disturbing the "crime scene" in a way that ensuring final extinguishment would have required.
Thank you for your expertise. I always love learning from guys like you. Keep up the great work!
I’m a marine engineer on a ro-ro ferry and part of the fire team on board and a volunteer fire fighter with my home town department. It’s been an uphill battle trying to quell the fears of captains and crew in both locals. I’ve pointed out the fact that we’ve never had an EV fire onboard or in my village, but there have been dozens of ICE fires. The numbers cited here have gone a long way in changing minds, but there are holdouts, (they’re usually also into flat earth and don’t like needles, soooo).
Cited.
You got an issue with flat earth? Lol
@@sportbikeguy9875 Yes. Specifically, with the curvature.
@@aliendroneservices6621 thank you…
One thing you didn't mention is how quickly EVs burn vs ICEVs. Look at the graph at 10:53. It shows the ICE getting to peak temperature, and triggering the sprinklers, almost immediately. The EV takes 15 minutes before reaching the same temperature, and triggering the sprinklers.
This means that in the very rare chance that your EV does catch fire, you've got plenty of time to evacuate the car. You've not got the same chance in an ICEV.
This is an important point. The chance of getting caught in an ice fire is significantly higher. I had to argue this with an electrician working on my house recently who said he'd never get an ev due to the fire risk. I pointed out a few things including getting out. Hopefully it had an effect but I Doubt it. haters gotta hate.
People always mention how long EV fires last which is an indication that the quantity of heat produced per unit of time is less=less intense. The problem with the ICE is the heat from the gasoline fire becomes extremely intense very quickly leaving no chance to escape.
@@colingenge9999you might want to edit that EV where you meant ICE I think
@ thanks. Just edited it all.
This is not true, in the last 60 days or so, in Toronto Ontario, there was a Tesla single vehicle accident, the driver was likely going too fast, he did lose control and hit a guardrail, likely at the end. It broke up the battery pack. (which is why I think it hit the end and sliced it up like a knife.) According to observers who tried to help, the fire was instantaneous and hot. there were 5 people in the car, and they managed to extract 1 person, 4 died. Sorry, but this single accident counters most claims about electric cars. If you own a Tesla, drive friends in a Tesla, make sure all occupants know how to use the emergency/manual door release before driving anywhere. Drill it in every time you drive.
The truth will set you free, but first, if you are an ICE driver, it will make you angry.
Why will it make them angry?
@@Markcain268 Because finding out you were wrong makes people angry, and a lot of ICE drivers have been brainwashed to hate EVs before they even saw one.
I don't understand why they should be angry. If it all, it is better to know which Gas cars are prone to possibly start and catch on fire and have to park outside due to this behavior. If they are still stubborn, then that is their problem, they were warned if you have a certain Gas vehicle.
@@dathyr1 If you have a vehicle that runs on a flammable liquid you are prone to fire.
The answer is ALL fuel driven cars are fire hazards, and that lies have been told to make you believe that your ICE car is different, and that they don't blowup in big balls of fire 🔥
Geoff is a proper muppet. He did a series of videos trying to find all the EV fires that week. Completely ignoring any other car fire. Was funny as he had to use one from around the world, where my local county fire service lists what they have attended, I counted 30+ car fires a month but none make the news as they weren't EV's. That was one fire service out of 49 in the UK....
Also StacheD channel seems super biased
Most of the UK fire brigades document "Electric Vehicle fires", except electric vehicle includes illegal eScooters, e-bikes, mobility carts etc. rarely do they split out Electric cars.
There was a car park fire in Liverpool a few years ago that was very similar to the one at Luton airport. It was also started by a diesel Range Rover and the report stated the fire spread quickly because burning fuel ran across the concrete surface and under adjacent cars where it quickly melted plastic fuel tanks/pipes.
The report following a fire as Stavanger airport, started by a petrol powered Renault, said that amongst the several hundred cars were 65 EVs. Despite the structure and all cars being completely burned out none of the EV traction batteries combusted, they even tested the runoff water from firefighting and it contained no battery chemicals. Anecdotally from family in that area, the EV batteries were stripped and the cells sold off for DIY storage projects.
One obvious thing to point out is that as battery chemistries improve, like Lithium Iron Phosphate, the fire risk is MUCH lower than with traditional lithium ion batteries. So far BEV's, having low fire risk a REQUIREMENT for their batteries will help make runaway EV fire risk even lower. OTOH, gasoline will still be the same in ICE and hybrid cars.
Of course, those who are in denial that EV's can be a good thing generally only want to hear confirming misinformation -- and to spread the same.
There have always been Lithium chemistries that were less prone to fire, but had lower volumetric and gravimetric densities. It's really only the lithium cobalt aluminum (LCA) chemistries that were adopted as the standard lithium batteries that have significant thermal runaway problems. They were chosen simply because they stored more energy in a given space and weight. It's not THAT big of deal if your cell phone or laptop bursts into flames, you just throw it away from you and there's only 1-6 cells. Since those are the chemistries used consumer electronics and Teslas, the most common electric cars, people think they're ALL lithium batteries. I have yet to hear a report of a single fire in Mitsubishi cars, which have used lithium titanate chemistries since 2011 or Nissan cars, which have used lithium manganese chemistries since 2012, neither even without any active temperature management. It doesn't have to be a new, paradigm shifting chemistry like LFP, sodium ion, sulfur ion, or aluminum ion to eliminate EV fires, just being willing to work with the chemistries that don't thermal runaway and/or self oxidize, and not chasing the absolute maximum storage density with no regard for other potentially catastrophic characteristics.
I’ve been watching your videos for a very long time, and the recent switch to FUD fighting content has been exceptionally interesting to me. I love all the data! And, just bought my first EV! Already gearing up to hear all the nay-sayers when they see it. lol!
What is FUD fighting?
Please be careful! When we got our first EV in 2017 every one wanted to race, some tried to run us off the road, pickup trucks “rolled coal” blowing black smoke. They were all angry because my small Model 3 performance could out run their expensive ICE. Please be careful. ❤
@@rogermccaslin5963 FUD = Fear, uncertainty, and doubt.
@@KJR-n5u Thanks.
Completely anecdotal, but I worked for a car insurance company for several years starting 2019 doing First Notice of Loss reports and eventually Total Loss evaluations. In those 3+ years I took a few reports of fire loss without an accident. Some the car was moving and others the car was parked. But NONE were EVs. Again, just anecdotal, not saying EV fires don't happen, just that I experienced more reports of ICE cars spontaneously combusting vs EVs.
Yes I had a 2020 Kia GAS car and it was one of the dont park inside recall - I got rid of the gas car and bought 2 EVs as they have no such fault. Norway is now 80% Electric and they have reported only one fire and it was a diesel car which was in a garage with 80 EVs and while it burned 4 EVs not one battery caught fire. Every major manufacture has park outside recall but only on GAS cars.
Fact: EVs are far less likely to catch fire than petrol vehicles
Worldwide studies show EVs have a far lower risk of catching fire than internal combustion vehicles.
The International Energy Agency reports there are now 40 million EVs on the road worldwide.
From 2010 to June 2024, EV FireSafe recorded 511 verified passenger EV battery fires across the world. It says 6 EVs caught fire in Australia between 2010 and September 2023.
In comparison, there were 2,803 internal combustion vehicle fires in NSW (Australia) alone in the 2022-23 financial year according to Fire and Rescue NSW incident data.
In Sweden, there were 23 reported fires in 2022 out of 611,000 electric vehicles (0.004%). Over the same period, 3,400 fires were reported from the nation’s 4.4 million petrol and diesel cars (0.077%).
Of the six in Australia, 4 were caused by arson and the other 2 by accidents.
EVs are a lot less likely to catch fire, that is absolutely true. Although ICE cars tend to be significantly older than the EVs, and given that it's expensive to replace an EV battery, that's probably going to be true forever.
However, once they catch fire they're like any battery fueled fire in that they are difficult to put out. Most fire departments do not have the right equipment to put out the fire and the car WILL be totalled in that scenario. Many years ago, my sister was driving an ICE car which had an engine fire. She stopped and used a fire extinguisher, and the fire was put out with minimal damage. A few days later she was driving in the same car again. The likelihood of something like that happening with a battery fire in an EV is almost zero.
@@rodh1404 That is not true. EVs have the cells compartmentalized nowadays, so that runaways are much more rare. That is even better than an ICE fire that can really only be compartmentalized to a few parts, the engine and the gasoline tank since we're talking about a liquid
It's good to see that whenever there is a car fire, many of the comments ask if it was an EV, and people are correcting them saying how unlikely it would be.
There are a few special people who argue that the numbers are low because there aren't may EVs. And try as you might, they can't comprehend how percentages work. Probaby among many other things.
I have never seen an EV fire in person, but I have lost count of the number of ICE fires I have seen with my own eyes. In 1982 my BMW 320i caught on fire WHILE I was driving it!
I actually have seen a Tesla burning on the side of an off ramp in Sacramento. On the other hand, my roommate returned home late last night and said she was delayed due to a gas car burning on the freeway.
There are around 300 ICE car fires each day in Britain. The NTSB in the US recorded 180'000 ICE car fires during 2022.
There's a eurobeat song that would have been appropriate.
I had a 82 bmw 320 and it too caught on fire, twice. The intake manifold stud works loose and lets hot oil drip onto the exhaust manifold then caught fire and that melted the plastic (yes high pressure fuel lines) which contributed to the fire. I fixed it both times, it was embarrassing because for Christmas I got 3 fire extinguishers.
@@joecushman6030 Yes, ICE vehicles catch fire a lot more often than EVs. But as you said, those fires can usually be extinguished if you catch them quickly enough, and the car can be repaired. If it's a battery fire in an EV, then the car's usually a write-off no matter how quickly you catch it because battery fires are impossible to extinguish using normal fire-fighting equipment. Very few fire departments have the equipment needed to extinguish them.
Ice cars are a brilliant piece of engineering but have taken a 100 years to get to where they are now. EV’s have already out performed them in less than 10 years and will rapidly improve even more in the next few years .
Actually, EV cars are over 100 years old. The problem with those was battery technology. ICE technology wasn't particularly good then either, but it progressed far more rapidly. Battery technology only relatively recently progressed to the point where it can compete against ICE technology. Check out Jay Leno's Garage, he has a video about a 100 year old EV that still runs (albeit not with original batteries).
@@johnnemeth6913The Baker!!
@@johnnemeth6913 change the topic to years of R&D and itll make sense
@@calivalley9056 YES legacy auto knows their profit model and it isnt innovation.. tesla was the first auto company in like 40 years to not go bankrupt
@@johnnemeth6913 Yes but for the most part EVs already outperform ICEVs. It is only downhill for ICE.
Great segment thanks. I have attended many vehicle fires - all combusion vehicles and mostly well alight by the time we got on scene. And boy do modern vehicles burn! Lots ot toxic fumes. Five that I attended were hybrid vehicles and in every case it was the fuel system that was the source and in no case did the Li battery become involved. But I have been to two structure fires where the ignition source was a Li ion battery - both were cheap electric bikes that were left on charge (one in a garage the other someone's kitchen). The most recent Li ion battery fire was from a damaged power tool (we put them in a large water basin by the way - total immersion). So yes, damaged/ cheap/ poorly constructed Li ion batteries are a fire risk. But modern EVs (from established manufacturers) are not. They have very good battery management systems.
Just watched the video right before signing my new apartment lease that comes with an EV charging spot and the manager told me he'd never drive an EV “because of all the fires”. 🤦♂️ The timing couldn’t have been more perfect! 😂
Is the car park in the building or separate? It's great that they are providing chargers, and the EV fire risk is exaggerated, but I think charging EVs in the basement of an apartment block is not a good balance of risk.
@adrianthoroughgood1191 if you ignore the facts, like Ben has done so many times in the past, you'd say things like this. In reality, gas car fires are really a lot more intense than an EV. Because of that, underground parking garages are already up to spec for EVs, also in these rare cases.
It's simply stupefying that anti EV people somehow think that gasoline is not flamable. We have been driving on top of a 10 or 15 or up to 36 gallon gas bombs all our lives, and yet they claim batteries are the issue. Yet, they want manufacturers to place a battery next to a gas tank on hybrids, because... you know, the gasoline will put out the fire?😂
Yes but you need an ignition source. Lithium Ion batteries may spontaneously combust 24/7, develop quickly and burn hot and are difficult to extinguish. They have been causing fires well before they were put into cars.
@michael.randall5034 That's nothing but FUD. Stop watching misinformation. But even by your own FUD, read my statement carefully. On a hybrid, you have a battery AND a gas tank in the same vehicle. And what's an ignition source for gasoline? A simple spark.
And just to clarify it for you, on avarage there are roughly 500 ICE fires every day in America alone. While on average there is only one EV fire every other month or longer. Which is why the media covers them. Imagine trying to stay up with 500 ICE fires every single day.
Comparing a battery with a fuel tank is an apples and oranges comparison. A battery is a complete energy deliver system of many parts that is designed to move energy out of the battery to where it's needed. A fuel tank is just a energy container, which is more equivalent to the Lithium within the battery, with both being stable without an external ignition source and the right conditions to ignite.
The more exact comparitor in a gas car is the fuel tank, lines, pump and 12v battery not just the tank by itself. And oddly this gas fuel system can also self ignite.
In Australia, Ludicrous Feed reported that there were in total 8 BEV fires since 2021 from more than 180000 BEVs. 1 was arson, 3 were external fire that extended to the vehivles, 3 were involved in high speed collision with 1 case of unknown cause.
Well done Ben, setting the record straight. You have no need to apologise. Here in Australia , only 2 EVs have caight fire in the last 20 years,( according to the fire department) and one of those was trapped in a garage of a house which was on fire. In contrast, GM once made cars here called the 'Holden Cruise' which was plagued by transmission failures and engine fires. (We nick-named it the "Holden Curse"). Around 15 years ago, so many were catching fire they NEVER got a mention in the news. Around 300 every week, nationally, so a burning GM fossil fuelled car was SO commonplace, it was not newsworthy. It stands to reason if your car is powered by flammable liquids, you are going to have fires. It's a lot harder to get a battery to ignite.
Was there an official 'park outdoors recall' on the Chevy Bolt in 2020/2021? They did get a software patch while a battery replacement or buy back program occurred. It was all due to a large batch with poor quality control from LG Chem - a clearly known and understood manufacturing fault.
Yes there was a park outdoors recall for the Bolt. I think the fact that I lived in an apartment and couldn’t park away from everything got my battery replaced quickly. I was definitely a squeaky wheel in my efforts to get a buyback, so I’m sure that helped as well.
LG built the batteries to GM spec. GM screwed up. That is why GM paid for most of it.
@@brendykes1202strange that video author said there were 0 park outside recalls for EVs. I'm a bit concerned he did his analysis by just looking at the manufactures and dividing them in the EV and legacy, counting Chevy as ICE even when it applied to an EV. It's important to do these things properly. "No EV only manufacturers had fire recalls" is not the same thing as "no EVs had fire recalls".
@ as I understand it, it wasn’t the spec, it was manufacturing defects.
@@adrianthoroughgood1191 Yeah, I agree, that's a hair that Ben should've split with regard to such a public and well known EV park outside recall. It just gives people reasons to disregard everything else he has to say. Scale wise, the Bolt recall wouldn't significantly change the results of his analysis, in fact, if you separate all the EVs from traditional manufacturers it may make ICEs look even worse since I've never heard of any fires or fire related recalls in Nissan and Mitsubishi models which may be offsetting the Chevy recall numbers. I'm not sure where Ford falls in that range.
I remember that back in the 60’s people were complaining that oil companies were stopping electric cars coming to market.
Then in the 70’s and the 80’s etc.
Now that EV’s are here, the haters are s……ng bricks.
I have an like and own both types of cars.
All I want is the truth.
Many thanks Ben.
Park outside is not an issue in Florida since we dont have attics (that can safely store anything) or basements, everything goes in the garage except automobiles.
My 2022 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon 4xe (PHEV) is part of a park outside recall. That current recall has around 154,000 cars. The fix was just released to dealers last week.
Another fact that is often overlooked and I’m surprised Ben didn’t mention it. There are different battery technologies being used in EVs these days LiFePo batteries don’t have the same thermal runaway characteristics like NMC batteries. Thus, vehicles with LiFePo batteries are way less likely to catch fire.
I work in tech. A scientist coworker was doing research in Li batteries about 15 years ago. That program experienced a Li battery fire that was contained in a “fire-proof” oven. The local fire department responded and said “just let it burn out in the oven”. That lesson stuck with me. When I decided to lease a 2013 Volt (with a pretty small battery pack) I made the conscious decision to NEVER park or charge electric vehicles in my garage. There after we leased a 2016 Volt. Years later, some neighbors two blocks away were awakened at 2 am by a fire alarm. They had two Model S parked and charging in the garage. One of them experienced “thermal runaway” which ignited the other Model S. Due to there smoke detectors, these fine people escaped there home alive but the home was very seriously damaged by the fire. They were displaced for about a year before they might move back into the house. Going forward … I’ll continue to purchase EVs but I’ll not ever park them in my home. Just saying.
But Ben says EV fires don’t happen.
Just picked up my wife's car after a quick repair - fuel filler pipe had split and needed to be replaced. Fire avoided.
I had NEVER once given ANY thought to the dangers of my Fossil fuel cars or motorbikes catching fire..I can't even remember ever reading about any fires in the news....even though there were literally thousands a year....and Yet they make very BIG scary headlines of every electric car or bike fire.
I did not need this in the news...Yes many cars came in the news while burning since my childhood 60 years ago.
Because in 1995 my neighbours car went up in flames in the middle of the night ...high as the rooftops of our houses. I woke up through the noice...also a few others.
We had to alarm all car owners in the street with a car nearby...some of those already got melting plastics when the onwer arrived to repark it ffurther away. Yes within minutes this severe.
My personal experience only is about this ICE car fire.....
Luckily far enough away to keep the houses safe.
The reason you don't hear about ICE cars catching on fire is because it's about as newsworthy as a house catching on fire.
I love that you categorize the two vehicle types as "EV" and "Combustible" vehicles. 😁 Funny twist on an EV fire video - that Dinosaur vehicles are even worse than we thought.
🤣
Are you telling me America's consumer protections are so bad that you can still call a recall a recall when it doesn't actually recall the product? These brands just tell consumers to park their fire risk outside so it (hopefully) does less damage when it explodes, rather than actually RECALLING the vehicle, fixing the issue or replacing it at their expense? For real!?
It's telling them to park it outside until a fix is available and implemented, which is the actual recall part of that.
From my recollection.. the Luton airport car park wasn't fitted with a sprinkler system. Could be wrong, but I think that is the case.
Indeed it wasn't, even though it was a recent build. Sprinklers not mandatory, so they saved themselves a few bob by not fitting them.
You are correct, apparently sprinklers are not mandatory there. A video of the diesel hybrid land rover that started the fire showed the tell-tale lithium red-hued flames coming from the hybrid battery under the driver compartment when the driver first abandoned the car to get away.
@@rafalklepinski7372 The official report states "The subsequent fire investigation confirmed that the vehicle
was powered by a diesel non-hybrid internal combustion engine."
No lithium battery involved, just a good old fashioned diesel fire.
How soon we forget, remember GM advising Chevy Bolt EV and EUV owners to park their car outside because they were catching fire Eventually GM issued a recall and provided battery swap to solve the problem then GM stopped manufacturing both Chevy Bolts.
GM sold both Bolt models for 2 or 3 more years before they discontinued them
The problem with multi-storey car park fires involving ice vehicles, is that the burning fuel spreads through the car park drains. That's why so many cars catch fire.
yep, that's what that report showed as well
@@BenSullinsOfficialthere was also an airport car park fire at Liverpool airport a few years ago. Ice car source, report again said fire spread via burning fuel though drains.
Correct - plastic fuel tanks burst, spilling gallons of burning liquid fuel which gravity then distributes to floors below via water drains and stairways.
I knew it. Bait clicked! 😂😂😂 Bravo. I knew it was an ICE problem. Great work, B👍🏾😂
I did and I don't drive an ev, apart from my ebike.
As a firefighter I can tell you for a fact that BEV fire is way harder to suppress than a ICE fire, and sometimes the best thing for us to do is simply protect exposures until it burns itself out, even if fires are suppressed in a BEV there is quite a significant chance of thermal runaway causing reignition at some stage even months after accident which is causing a rethink in the motor vehicle wrecking/recycling industry in regards to yard storage. From a vehicle crash perspective their are also different rescue methods used on a BEV to access injured drivers due design differences for both the safety of responders and casualties...all modern vehicles are engineering marvels in regards to crash worthiness in regards to protecting the passengers, the downside is many of the vehicle safety features are quite dangerous for responders trying to access the vehicle and adding a dirty great traction battery has certainly added a difficulty layer to Fire and Rescue response. Interestingly from a catching a fire perspective due to faults etc. the stats and data has shown the vehicle to most likely to catch fire and disproportionally so are hybrid vehicles for some reason, BEV are right at the bottom of the list in regards to vehicles fires.
Engineer's perspective: the reason hybrids are disproportional in risk is that they need both drivetrains compressed in to a relatively small space. In the best case you've taken the risk of a combustion car catching fire and added it to the risk of a BEV, but in reality it's hot engine parts, extra complexity, and a small footprint resulting in the EV parts being in non-optimal places and being subjected to temperatures and mechanical stresses that they normally wouldn't have to deal with.
I think most people would like a BEV if it weren't for bad information, and that they are safer, but I would rather they get a gas car over a hybrid if it came down to it. (Or obviously various situations where an EV isn't right for them of course)
Im kinda old and in my life I've sat and watched quiet a few gas cars burn while the Fire Dept was trying to put it out. Also seen even more end results of car fires that I didn't witness. The result has always been a charred skeleton of what was once a car. I've never seen one where I thought, "Whew! glad the firemen showed up! Might be able to save some parts from that car". No not once. Now maybe i've just never seen the ones where they put it out quickly. Could be, but I think for the most part even with a firetruck the car will burn to the ground. So EV's also burn to the ground? Hmmm so that means same friggin end result right? So how come with gas cars they don't just let em burn and instead try to contain the fire so it doesn't affect adjacent cars or structures? I mean if they always burn to nothing then why are folks like OHHHH EVS are Sooo much worse its unstoppable! We can only contain it! Even on the sides of highways where there is nothing else around I would think be it a Semi, gas car or EV just let it burn out.
A reasoned response. From an unschooled view, I would say the jets of toxic metallic gas at the least would make EV fires more fearsome. And once a fuel fire is smothered and cooled, its largely a clean up and haul away problem. The EV remains a potential bomb, even if brought to ambient temperature.
But the Luton and Lisbon airport fires, as well as the car carrier fires, are what chill me. If any group of vehicles can start or join in on a firestorm like that, yikes. I don't remember this being a thing.
A Luton responder said a sprinkler system would have helped, but they weren't required. Thoughts?
@@catnaplappdx5001 What are the jets of toxic metallic gas you speak of?
Wasn't the Luton fire caused by an ICE vehicle but misreported as an EV fire?
Think one of them is lithium hexafluorophosphate? And hydroflouric acid. Bunch of others, one of them causes paralysis when it land on skin apparently...
3:55 Whoever reported that needs to retract it everyday for a month so everybody gets the message. It wasn't an electric car that caused it.
The problem with the fake news media is they’ll report something they know is false with big headlines. When they get called out on it, they will issue a retraction that’s barely noticeable. The only thing people remember was the fake news they reported as true
My daughter, here in Michigan, has a 2018 Pacifica Plug in Hybrid. She received a recall notice and AFTER taking the car in the dealership for 3 days, she was told NOT to park in the garage or near the house AND never charge it. Yesterday it was 21 degrees F. and there her car sits, uncharged, out in the cold. The 2020 and beyond are not affected, so at least the newer EV's don't pose this risk.
I've seen the effects of three car fires in the last few years: Two were Diesel trucks that caught fire on the interstate, and one was a gas vehicle parked in a family member's garage, which burned the home to the ground.
Porsche Taycan and Jaguar I-PACE are both currently under park outside recalls.
Internal COMBUSTION engine. We used to call them car-b-cues and they were along every main highway.
My 2022 Ford Escape Plug in hybrid was recalled due to risk of fire and explosion. We were advised to park outside. The fix turned out to be a software fix. Imagine a junior programmer coded if temperature > threshold then StartFire = True; Explode = True.
Gas cars are 19 times more likely to catch fire than an EV but hybrids are almost 50 times more likely to catch fire since they have the worst characteristics of both.
Similar to what happened this year in the Philippines, an ice vehicle burst into flames at the international airport. Luckily no one was injured and it was at the open parking. Less than 100 vehicles burned down as well due to the incident
Per capita, gasoline ice cars have 10x more fires than ev's. Fact not alternative fact.
The best data I've seen on this, from Sweden, shows it's almost 30X
@BenSullinsOfficial it's the fossil fuel and legacy auto propaganda against ev. Truth is that in 5 years, the only car manufacturers left will be Tesla and Chinese ev manufacturers. It's a kodak or apple moment for legacy auto. And the next thing you can debunk is "how long ev batteries last" and where used ev batteries goto ( hint: not landfills)
@@BenSullinsOfficial that lumped hybrids in with pure EVs. Hybrids seem more likely to catch fire than pure ICE, so what are the pure EV numbers?
As long as it's not my gas car I don't care!
Insurance companies figures are coming in with these stats:
3500 per 100000 hybrids.
1200 per 100000 ICE
25 per 100000 pure EV's
Please google as this will confirm but include the words "insurance companies" as you will want facts not propaganda.
Hi Ben. I Do Electric engineering. For EVs. Just to make it absolutely clear.
A EV fire. Aka Thermal runaway is self sustaining and really hard to put out and the smoke is very toxic. It is very hard to put out and you need the vehicle to be towed and placed away from anything flammable+ the water used will get quite polluted.
But all statistics support the narrative that an EV fire is at least a factor 6 less likely than a ICE vehicle.
Does using water actually help if the whole battery is eventually going to burn up anyway? Is it better just to let it burn?
@adrianthoroughgood1191 It help cooling down. If you reach the lower threshold for thermal runaway, then it will stop spreading. And the gasses are poisonous, so letting it burn for maybe days is usually not an option.
There are special containers to put out the fire and cool the batteries. That will also remove the chance of the fire spreading.
It's worse than we thought. I was informed from a Electric Car Derangement Syndrome guy that Electric Cars cause Hurricanes.
That's only when they take off at Plaid speed....😉
I started laughing when I saw the title, I had just re-watched “the Good Place” where Michael referred to something so rare as “when someone on the internet says “you know what? You’ve convinced me that I’m wrong”
I love calling ICE cars “ combustibles” such a great troll. Yet true.
Cool intro. I love it!
And I agree 100% from the evidence i have seen, as a professional tow 8:13 truck driver. By far, the most likely one to catch fire, are diesel bmw's.
And most of the burned ev's i have picked up, were burned because the gas car next to it, had caught on fire first.
Actually, the only ev fires I can think of, where the battery pack had been on fire, were a couple of plug in hybrids, Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV...
I once picked up a totally burned out husk of an Audi E-tron... Only the battery pack (intact) and the high strength steel impact resistant cage vere remaining.
You're saying the whole car burned away but it didn't set fire to the battery?
They made a mistake the recall pretained to the Jeep 4xe models. All jeep wranglers with the 4xe system were issued a do not park inside order. Lithium fires are very much indeed very dangerous, especially if the battery pack suffers from water damage. Newer ev's utilize lifepo4 battery chemistry which does make things safer but it is in no way perfect
Even all modern EVs are much safer than any 'combustible' car in particular, and also safer than a lot of lithium battery vehicles and devices (e-scooters, rechargeable power drills, electric mowers, phones, etc). EVs have a battery management system (BMS) which is designed to monitor and control the EV battery system, especially to cool it during use and charging, or even in its general state (eg. yesterday during our extreme heat day I noticed that the Ioniq 6's vent flaps had opened for a time to cool the battery after I had opened to door and then locked the car). The vast majority of fire call-outs to 'lithium home fires' by fire services are to these devices which are SO common, are charged at home *all the time* and lack any sort of BMS to prevent thermal runaway.
@@petesig93 not true at all. Every single lithium battery with multiple cells has a BMS that offers at least cell balancing and overheat protection. Without a BMS, rechargable batteries would quickly lose cell balance and be completely useless after a few charge cycles. Thermal runaway is caused from the breakdown of the barrier between the anode and cathode of the battery. This can be happen with 3 different conditions. Cell breakdown from charging or discharging too quickly, an overheat condition, or corrosion from exposure to water or extreme moisture. Ev fires are actually fairly common when you take into account the fact that they make up a small portion of vehicles on the road and are relatively new. It is also quite telling that transportation companies and junkyards are now required to exercise strict standard when handling ev's that have been in accidents. Combustion cars are much more stable than ev's are at the moment. Especially considering once burning, an ev is inherently hard to extinguish and is still at risk of reigniting even days after a fire is put out.
When i was a kid we had a Mercury Topaz, one day while driving smoke started billowing out of the steering column. We pulled over in a parking lot and the car burnt beyond repair. We were 4 kids and my mom in the car. Within a minute of the first smoke there were flames and the rest of the car went quite fast. Thankfully no one got hurt. A year later we did get a recall letter for a fire issue due to wiring on the ignition, A little late for that lol
3 years ago at Sola Airport in Norway there was a fire similar to the one at Luton Airport. Everyone was pretty sure that the fire started in an EV. After a few days it was revealed that the fire started in an Opel Zafira diesel car. Several hundred cars were destroyed in this fire.
I got a recall years ago saying I shouldn't park my car in the garage. It was an '07 Porsche Panamera. It was because of a fuel line leaking onto something (some weird thing where it was leaking after shutting it down). I, of course, ignored it and kept the car in the garage. Still no fires in any of my cars, including 2 EVs.
Companies are getting sloppier with their manufacturing so they can save a buck. Another big piece of evidence for enshitification. Just horrible.
Then we compare different battery types in newer EV's such as LFP that do not want to burn after being punctured several times.
Gas or petrol is flammable, yet people seem to ignore this and are happy to park them at their homes. Great video.
Liquid gasoline is not flammable.
@@aliendroneservices6621 Are you serious, or having a joke?? You put liquid gasoline into your tank if you drive an ICE car. Would you smoke or light a match at that time?? It gives off gases that mix with the oxtgen and become highly flammable. Look at the trucks delivering it and they are all marked with the hazardous symbol for flammable.
I would not recommend pouring liquid gasoline onto a fire, it will not work like water and put it out.
Wow this shows me how horrible car manufacturers have gotten with quality control. So unacceptable.
In January of 1995 a coworker parked his red 1978 Dodge pickup truck in an above-ground parking structure. The temperature was about -26°F and his truck would not start. He came back early the next morning, a Saturday, with tools and jumper cables to get his truck running. Unfortunately, his engine caught fire and the entire truck was engulfed in flames. Fortunately, there were no other cars around. He made a comment about the fact that a purely concrete parking structure had no fire extinguishers. Go figure. Anyway, about a week later he came into the office and told me he bought a shiny new pickup truck. I asked him what color it was to which he replied "Black". I said "Oh, just like your old one😊"
He grinned and said "A**hole"😊
There seem to be a rise of random parked car fires, mostly due to overcomplicated electrical systems, computer controls etc. I recently had transmission control module wires chewed by a mouse, causing $1000 damage. They put in all these smart, complicated fragile electronics in the cars, but leave these wires hanging without enough protection from moisture, corrossion and wild life.
Happens a lot to older Model X vehicles also for some reason
@BenSullinsOfficial I installed an ultrasonic mouse repellent under the hood that seemed to stop it.. Maybe it should come with all cars
so cool!
@@BenSullinsOfficial Oh no... I have a 2016 model x :(
@@BenSullinsOfficial I read an article stating that Rodents like the soy-based wiring insulation.
As someone who personally had a Nissan 200SX gasoline car catch on fire on me, while I was driving, almost taking my life, I'll NEVER drive another gasoline fire combustion engine again! I'll stick with my EV's, from here on out. OV's (oil vehicles) are 50 times more likely to catch on fire, I'll never listen to anyone hating on EV's with false fire opinions.
I work in a facility that develops BEV and other alternative fuels (and regular) for heavy equipment. All battery packs are stored outside in a shed due to past thermal events.
Batteries don't just explode for no reason and these were possibly caused by non visible damage or manufacturing issues. It is a reminder that battery packs and power electronics are not less parts than an internal combustion engine. I read that a tesla battery pack can have 7k batteries, which are all individually welded and tons of electronics for charging, equalizer, safety, etc. Lots of things can go wrong.
I have a healthy fear of lithium ion batteries due to first and second hand experiences with them (like name brand drill batteries catch on fire)
None of this is to discount the data that this is also a problem with ICE vehicles. I do find it disturbing that this video is more about "ICE more dangerous than "BEV" than "the rate of both ICE and BEV fires are unacceptable "
"I read that a Tesla battery pack can have 7k batteries..."
Only the original (circa 2008) Tesla Roadster contained 7k cells:
"the Tesla Model that contains the most individual cells is the Tesla Roadster, which utilizes *_6,831 18650-type cells_* in its battery pack" (Google AI)
I think going forward there should be a ban on basement car parks in new buildings, especially residential buildings. If you have 100 cars of any type the odds of one of them going up and destroying the entire building is too high to ignore. I think car parks should be separate.
Idk how it is in other countries but in the past in my country when the news talks about car fires they always include the fact that it was an electric vehicle that caught fire.
They don’t do that anymore because even if they show a car on fire that is clearly a combustion car, ppl still say that it is somehow an EV.
The media hates Tesla because they don’t advertise too.
Great job laying out the facts about vehicle fires. I switched to an EV years ago and never plan to ICE again.
My first car, a 72 Toyota Corolla (from before the requirement for catalytic converters etc) caught fire one time in 125000 miles. I stopped at a gas station, opened the hood, and saw smoke. It appeared to be an electrical fire. I rushed into the station, said I had a fire and where was the fire extinguisher. The attendent didn't seem concerned at all and continued serving someone else. I eventually found the extinguisher. Thankfully, the fire hadn't spread enough to keep me from putting it out. It made me wonder if they dealt with fires on a regular basis. Today we have 2 EVs. No fires yet;-)
You nailed it :) To think we all have multiple li-on batteries in our bedrooms for the last 15 years, and we are still alive -that should be some miracle.
There's something missing here. There should be readily available info on how lithium ion battery fires produce their own oxygen and so are difficult to extinguish. I've seen so much evidence that it's empirical fact as far as I'm concerned. BEVs should be worse than plugin hybrids due to the larger packs.
I'm NOT an EV hater. I'm interested in sodium ion batteries for safety (and for supply chain security)
It's not that it's very difficult to extinguish, but it takes time because you need to cool down the fire, which requires a lot of water
EV fires are more difficult to extinguish because the batteries go into thermal runaway and reignite after the original fire has been put out. ICE vehicles tend to go boom when the gas vapour ignites and the fire engine is only left to put out the remnant of the fire. Putting out an EV fire requires a much longer suppression time to control the overall temperature of the remaining batteries.
That is right. There are hundreds of bus fires a year in London, many started by electrical faults and the like rather than by the engine/battery/drive system - not to mention arson. Diesel bus fires are normally put out without causing major damage, but with an electric bus the fire brigade just have to let them burn themselves out and try to stop the fire spreading. Temperatures over 10,000°C have been recorded in EV bus fires. The problem is if a fire happened in an enclosed space it would spread - if a bus garage full of EVs caught fire at night it would be truly catastrophic (and some bus garages are located underneath developments).
The Luton airport fire is an interesting case as while fire did not start in an EV, there were doubtless many EVs and hybrids parked in the car park which once the fire spread no doubt contributed to the intensity of the blaze and the speed of its spread.
I am not anti-EV at all, but this whole issue of EV fire risks has simply not been recognised as an issue until very recently and is still very poorly understood.
@@robertmunster1959 Exactly. EV battery fires CAN be put out, but very few fire departments have the equipment to do so. And that equipment can't be carried in a regular passenger vehicle. Which means in nearly all cases of EV battery fires, the EV in question is a complete write-off. While ICE vehicles can catch fire and burn to the ground too, there are plenty of examples of someone catching the fire early enough and putting it out using a fire extinguisher carried in the vehicle itself. Often, the vehicle can then be repaired and safely return to the road.
@@robertmunster1959I didn't think EVs were popular enough in the UK to have "many" of them in a carpark? So what you're saying is that while an EV wasn't responsible for the fire, it was still responsible for the fire.
@@rodh1404Again, that's not true. They need a fire hose and a lot of water. There's a port in the battery for it
Just for your info I worked for the fire brigade for 30 years and spent time in fire investigation. An investigation such as this would take weeks if not months yet it is astonishing they could come up with a likely cause so quickly and saying it occurred in a diesel car. But what is the cause and how did it occur???? The other thing that astonishes me is that a diesel car fire is so easy to extinguish yet the airport fire service and the Bedfordshire fire service could not be put out. Where is that vehicle now. We would all love to know.
THANK YOU! Britain is captured by ideology, so listening to their rushed conclusion makes no sense. How does paraffin wax continuously burn in open air?
Fantastic job! Thank you so much for going out of your way to fight FUD. I'll keep on following your channel for as long as you do. However, please check the correct pronunciation for names such as Luton, Bedfordshire, or Hertfordshire. The Brits would warm up to you in great numbers. 😊
I need to spend more time over there :)
Volunteer firefighter here. We've had no issues with EV's, but plenty of call outs to fires of cheap, Chinese scooters with dodgy chargers. A good charger will switch off when the battery is charged, but the cheap ones can overcharge the battery, leading to thermal runaway and a fire and most scooters are charged inside. What we've been recommending is to buy a plug in timer and don't leave them on charge all the time.
I live here in Florida. It wasn't a park outside recall. It was for the hurricane because they were worried about salt water getting in the batteries
Keep up the good work by getting the facts 👍🏻
On our roadtrip this summer (in the model Y) we passed 3 burned shells of combustion cars off the side of the road on I-70. My parents VW Passat burnt to a crisp when they got out of the car for snacks at a rest stop a few years ago (something with the wiring).
If only people treated EV fires like they treated note 9 fires: a bizarre and rare circumstance.
My wife's 2022 Chevy Bolt EV had a park outside recall due to the battery's potential to spontaneously combust. Once the entire battery pack was replaced, we were then advised we can park inside again. I fully believe EVs are much safer in many regards, but due to my first hand experience of a park outside recall with our Bolt EV, it is safe to say that even EVs are not immune to this sort of recall.
I wish you had covered the Bolt battery issue.
It leaves your whole videos being seen weak or not including that, the obvious park outside for EVs… would have loved you to show how little those vehicles were compared to all EVs in the US.
Do you know exactly how many Bolts caught fire?
His analysis seems to be very flawed. Several people have reported ev PORs. I'm wondering if he actually just meant Tesla and rivian have had no PORs rather than there have been no EV PORs.
Thanks for being completely honest and real and vulnerable.
Our Ford Fusion plug in hybrid did in fact receive a letter from ford that said to no longer charge the car inside.
I am heavily pro EVs, and drive one, however there is one piece of info you might not know.
Although EV fire ratios in most of the world are 20-30 times lower than ICE cars, the same is not true of domestic Chinese EVs, where a recent report BY A CHINESE GOVERNMENT SCIENTIST stated that EV fires in China, were 7-10x more likely than an ICE car fire.
I have also seen a video of a woman burning to death in a Chinese EV, after it burst into flames while driving, - and deadlocked the doors, so she could not escape.
Now, Chinese EVs for export are supposedly made to far higher standards than those for the internal market - but with internal sales collapsing, due to the economic woes, how many of those cars are being diverted to sell in other countries??
I know for a fact, that smart phones made for the internal Chinese market are being overwritten with International ROMs and sold to unsuspecting international customers - these phones often have a very different hardware spec to the version people expect to receive, to the point they may not work with the local cellular networks.
I know for a fact you are telling lies, again😂😂😂
@@othmanhassanmajid8192 Go forth and multiply.
I seen a story recently that a fire department put out an BEV fire with blanket specifically designed to to suppress the oxygen. I think once more fire departments get this tech you'll rarely see this as an issue for BEV's
A blanket won’t work of EV fires.
The batteries contain both the fuel, and their own oxidiser so no external oxygen is required. This is why you will find videos of EV’s burning even when submerged under water.
The only way to deal with battery fires is to keep the undamaged cells cool to prevent them from also going into thermal runaway (well, that or just let it burn itself out).
@bear4278 I went to the website of the company after making the comment and I recall they said it was to prevent the battery for from spreading and starting any more fires.
@@torchlord11 Ah, that makes sense then and isn’t a bad idea 🤗
We just had 2 EV fires in one day in Bratislava, Slovakia... EV6 after crash - fire put out after 30 minutes and then ID.4 parked after charging. Also put out in 10 minutes (and then drown in EV fire container).
And we also had one diesel golf that burned in a spectacular way, while the driver was inside driving it (he got out)! Also burned for about 15 minutes.
Then we had one ID.3 burned, but that was arson and no, battery did not catch on fire even when the whole car was burned (well except battery).
The problem with Li battery fires is that the battery chemistry produces it's own oxygen when burning and produce over 2500 degrees of heat with out-gassing making large explosions and because of this they are almost impossible to put out without very specialised equipment and near enough the same amount of water as a very large swimming pool plus have a problem with reigniting. And to add insult to injury the gasses coming off the fire are so bad that you can have your quality of life ruined from breathing them in and/or skin contact.
Was there a "park outside" recall for the Ford cruise control issue? I was watching a video that was supposed to be a serpentine belt replacement and as the guy was talking, there was a POP and immediately flames coming could be seen billowing up from the right side of the engine compartment. Fortunately the guy had a fire extinguisher and put it out. My Ford Ranger had that recall. The recall was on all kinds of Fords
Lithium Iron Batteries are much safer.
@@JagdeepSandhuSJC still safer :)
Another good video. I’m not at all surprised that Hyundai/Kia have the highest number of fires. In my experience (having owned two Kia’s), their quality is sub-par and I can see issues with their electrical systems. Fuel systems in general are pone to fires. In the past three years that I’ve been paying attention, I’ve seen about a dozen vehicle fires, which are ICE and zero EV fires. I live in Los Angeles with 15 million of my closest friends and drive an average of 24,000 miles per year.
Hyundai/Kia seem to have improved the quality of cars the last few years and Hyundai has become premium in the EV space . I wonder if that also translates to fires?
Hyundai/Kia seem to have improved the quality of cars the last few years and Hyundai has become premium in the EV space . I wonder if that also translates to fires?
@@xWood4000 I will wait 25 years to see if Kia/Hyundai are anywhere near the quality of Toyota or Honda. At that point, I may reconsider.
I really like Kia but that recall was a bad one
You have to ask the question though, whether it's a BEV, a hybrid or an ICE vehicle: what was the cause, the "spark" that caused the fire? In the case of the BEV or hybrid it could well have been the lithium battery going into thermal runaway. In the case of the ICEV it could be an electrical fault, or a fuel leak onto a hot engine. Whatever the case, this is all due to faulty design and shoddy safety standards in the industry, which is not something that is specific to one form of drivetrain, but is more manufacturer specific. At one point, GM had a massive recall of their Bolt EV's due to faulty batteries from LG Chem, something that was specific, not even to the vehicle manufacturer but to the battery manufacturer.
Thanks a lot for your work, I really appreciate it. There is an incredible need of people like you, able to search for data and expose lies and fake news
My 2013 Sonata was under a recall and we were advised not to park affected cars in our garages. It took about a year for Hyundai to come up with a fix and get parts to dealers. This one involved a fuel line that could be damaged.
I had never really ever heard anything about fossil fuel vehicles catching fire .. So I actually did believe every fire I was suddenly hearing about must be an electric vehicle, and almost thinking it was weird to hear that it was often an ICE vehicle.
My 1993 Lincoln Mark 8 caught fire while parked. Fortunately I caught it right when it began. Brake fluid reservoir wall problem. they used to call it flaming Fords
Thank you, thank you, thank you so much for this in-depth study on car fires. My friends that dislike EV's only concentrate on fires in them, and not iICE engines. Keep up the great work!!
Thanks Ben for pointing out the Luton airport fire (pronounced 'Loo-tun' btw). I'm a British guy living in France and I keep track of the EV market and the anti-EV channels such as 'Geoff buys cars'. Despite his and others jumping on the misinformation bandwagon wrt to car fires, EV sales in the UK have risen every month this year and in November passed the 25% mark of new car sales. Overall BEV sales rose by 18% in 2024 over 2023. The numbers in France are similar.
The heat is generally not the killer, you generally die intoxicated, so the heat argument is a moot point, you would pass out before you die anyways.
This reminds of the reporting of shark attacks. When the media decides to report a whole bunch of shark attacks, people get the impression that the incidents of shark attacks are increasing, then they start thinking its too dangerous to go for a swim at a beach. But reality is that statically the chances of shark attacks are very minimal, and their hasn't been a uptick in attacks, it is just more that attention has been put on it more at the time.
But things are much worse these days, because much of the info put out now is deliberately disinfo.
Your research and coverage is phenomenal. Thank you, thank you. Keep it coming.😊
EVs may create more temperature in one localized spot but it’s the rate of heat emissions that kill. If gas fires burned as long as EV fires, the gas cars would be safer.
BC EVs burn slower, there is plenty of time to exit the vehicle. Gas fires engulf the ICE vehicle so rapidly that the person is suffocated in minutes.