I picked up a DoAll 3612 bandsaw about a year ago. It has a blade welder but I did not know how to use it. This tutorial has helped me to understand the operation of the welder. Thanks!
I never had any success welding my blades. More than 50% of the time they will break at the weld. So I searched UA-cam for an appropriate video. And what do you know? The UA-cam machinist instructor #1 of course have a video on that too. :-) I think my problem is the annealing. So I will do it as you show me and hopefully have success. Also that mention of cleanliness is a tip. My blades are covered in some rust preventing oil when I take them off of the spool. So I will clean them with solvent at the cut point before cutting them. That may also cause my problems.I wrote it before, but will repeat myself: Your instructional videos stand out as the best! Thank you, and keep on making videos!
man this brings back memories. i worked for sandvik back in the 70's we used to cut and weld bi metal and flex steel blades. the machine for the small blades was a stryko, and the big machine was a thompson. i used to day dream and get out order and anneal the blade before i weld it, and it use to turn red and drop in a puddle in a nano second. filing off the flashing on a pedestal grinder is a fine art. go too far and its like a slinky with sharks teeth blowing up in your face. i used to enlarge arbors on huge saw mill blades too
We've got an old DoAll bandsaw at work that has a blade welder, but I don't think anyone has touched it in ten or fifteen years. Maybe I'll get it working and wow some of the old timers in the shop. Great info.
Hey dude. You're in a very tiny minority demonstrating the tempering step. Kudos for being a dinosaur! It appears most people don't do this step, at all. And that is probably because it will take years of using these blade to know there IS a difference. And some people will not see any difference, because their blades dull before they break either way. But from my own years of experience I completely agree this tempering step is important. Before and after tempering, the blade will appear exactly the same. Neither blade will break when you bend it, repeatedly, by hand. You can bend them until they fold over, and they will both perform identically in this destruction test. They will appear to be completely identical. But after the blade has run around the wheels of a bandsaw thousands of times, the blade that was not tempered is more likely to break, right around the area of the weld. If your blade lasts long enough and/or if your saw has small enough wheels, you will find this out, yourself. But because there is no way to tell the different until you've done this more than a few times, the internet will never know it!
Let me add a word of caution here. As Marc has demonstrated, the welding of the blade is quite straight forward on a commercial welder, where the applicable parameters are simply "dialled in". Heat treating the weld is a horse of a different colour; and it is imperative that the annealing instructions as given on the blade container, be followed exactly, especially as pertaining to colour and ambient light conditions. Different manufacturers have different requirements for this annealing operation, and I recall one container stating "heat to dull red", whereas the other container stated "heat to dull red in subdued light"! A big difference, and it showed up in the number of blades that broke at the weld I had made so carefully. Moral of the story: If all fails, read the instructions! I would opine that 99% of the joining failures are due to improper heat treatment after welding, and subsequently after grinding.
I've been a machinist for 30 years and never got this right. Not because I can't but because I was never taught how to do it the right way...then again, I never asked. For a lazy machinist, you know better. Thanks for sharing .
I've got a blade welder but never knew I was supposed to temper after annealing. I hope that will solve my problem of blades breaking at the weld. Thanks! Subscribed.
Marc. Have you put a blade together with the silver soldering technique? If so, perhaps you can demonstrate that some time. Its more common in the home shops. Thanks
You video on recognizing and distinguishing different steels was fantastic. I have one small issue with the bandsaw blade welding sequence. Tempering is only applicable to a hardened object. Once the object or weld joint is annealed, it is annealed.
I agree! Annealed steel is annealed. I should have mentioned that the tempering at the end is more of a safety operation just in case the annealing step was not perfect. When annealing the blade it is difficult to control the cooling speed so I tend to do the "unnecessary tempering" since it is a lot easier to control by the color. Thanks for a great comment and thanks for taking the time to write. Your comment will help others and that is what comments are all about. Marc
I agree, and I like how you call it "unnecessary tempering." If calling it "unnecessary" satisfies the PhD's in metallurgy, let it be so. I do this unnecessary step, too. It is not necessary for my band saw blades to not break, prematurely. I just unnecessarily prefer it that way. It takes a year or so of breaking blades for someone to start doing this unnecessary step. It takes only 5 minutes to do an internet search on heat treating and to say this is wrong. :)
Thanks for the video. I have been cutting and grinding my blades at a slight angle by putting them teeth to back. The theory is there is a larger surface area for the weld and the angle puts less stress when the joint passes the material being cut rather then a 90 degree angle. Your website teaching is great God bless you.
@@THATLAZYMACHINIST The "blueing" operation after grinding off the flash from the weld is to reduce the stresses introduced by grinding. This is a necessary operation that prolongs blade life.
Hi great video, the only thing I don't agree it's the tempering you said you did because as far as I know in order to be tempered, first have to be hardened , not annealed.
Hello Marc Very nice video and EVERYTHING perfect explained ! Your (and my) method of welding bandsaw blades are identical !! Beste regards from Mainz, Germany Fritz Lottmann
I'm having trouble with my bandsaw blade welder my welds are breaking constantly it's very frustrating all these parameters I'm taking into account it still can't get a good weld the welds are good but the customers bring back the blades broken at the weld are they misusing the bandsaw or am I doing a terrible job welding
At where i work my boss taught me that it is better to have the teeth of the band saw not looking towards you , that it is better the teeth to be lined up , do you think is this a better method ?
We have a DoAll DBW-1C Bandsaw-Blade Welder, my husband has rewired it. We need a new light and maybe a new socket for it. We are not haveing any luck in replaceing this. Also the escutcheon is'nt working right. Any Ideas please. Thank You, Rosie
Hi Mark, I have never tried to tig weld a blade (I have a lot of respect for welders because it is something that I have difficulty doing) but I suspect that if you let the blade cool very slowly or if you anneal the blade before it starts to crack, you might have better success. I have however "hard silver soldered" blades (before I had access to a resistance welder) and it works quite well. Thanks for watching, Marc L'Ecuyer P.S. If you wish to understand more about the hardening of steel, you could watch my heat treatment videos, you can link to them from my website THATLAZYMACHINIST.COM
I have a 1903 Disston saw manual(reprint) that goes into detail on hard soldering bandsaw blades, using chunks of iron and a blacksmith forge. (simplified here) It calls for grinding the ends to a very shallow and matching taper for a large contact area, fluxing, then placing solder in the joint and squashing the whole works between the two red hot soldering irons until the solder melts. Special heat treatment isn't needed if performed well as it doesn't exceed the critical temperature of the steel.
Sir there are four types of Resistance welding process which are spot welding and seam welding, projection welding, flash welding, & upset welding but which process did you used?
@@THATLAZYMACHINIST XD is not a name...it's from before millenials broke the internet with emojis. It's the emoticon for a laughing face with closed eyes.
@@salsuginusrex5196 Now I feel even older than before! Well I guess that everyone is older than before. Other than a happy face , I have no clue as to the meaning of emojis. I guess the heart means "I love it".
You are right! Bring up to temperature, quench it (some steels do quench on air), anneal it. So one of the steps was useless: Either annealing or tempering. But it didn't hurt. :-))
no kidding, I bust a bandsaw blade and came here hoping for something barely above 'light a match under where the blade un-joined, hold them together and experience joy'
I picked up a DoAll 3612 bandsaw about a year ago. It has a blade welder but I did not know how to use it. This tutorial has helped me to understand the operation of the welder. Thanks!
I never had any success welding my blades. More than 50% of the time they will break at the weld. So I searched UA-cam for an appropriate video. And what do you know? The UA-cam machinist instructor #1 of course have a video on that too. :-)
I think my problem is the annealing. So I will do it as you show me and hopefully have success. Also that mention of cleanliness is a tip. My blades are covered in some rust preventing oil when I take them off of the spool. So I will clean them with solvent at the cut point before cutting them. That may also cause my problems.I wrote it before, but will repeat myself: Your instructional videos stand out as the best! Thank you, and keep on making videos!
I am not sure how I missed this one. I am considering buying a blade welder and this is very helpful in understanding the process.
This is very helpful, Thank you Marc. I never knew about bluing the blade after grinding. Now I just might get the welds to hold.
Thanks I have a band saw welder and have trouble with the process. I learned a few new tricks.
man this brings back memories. i worked for sandvik back in the 70's we used to cut and weld bi metal and flex steel blades. the machine for the small blades was a stryko, and the big machine was a thompson.
i used to day dream and get out order and anneal the blade before i weld it, and it use to turn red and drop in a puddle in a nano second.
filing off the flashing on a pedestal grinder is a fine art. go too far and its like a slinky with sharks teeth blowing up in your face. i used to enlarge arbors on huge saw mill blades too
Great Video Marc! I've never seen this before, although I've seen Bandsaws with welders on them. Thanks for sharing!
We've got an old DoAll bandsaw at work that has a blade welder, but I don't think anyone has touched it in ten or fifteen years. Maybe I'll get it working and wow some of the old timers in the shop. Great info.
Hey dude. You're in a very tiny minority demonstrating the tempering step. Kudos for being a dinosaur!
It appears most people don't do this step, at all. And that is probably because it will take years of using these blade to know there IS a difference. And some people will not see any difference, because their blades dull before they break either way. But from my own years of experience I completely agree this tempering step is important.
Before and after tempering, the blade will appear exactly the same. Neither blade will break when you bend it, repeatedly, by hand. You can bend them until they fold over, and they will both perform identically in this destruction test. They will appear to be completely identical.
But after the blade has run around the wheels of a bandsaw thousands of times, the blade that was not tempered is more likely to break, right around the area of the weld. If your blade lasts long enough and/or if your saw has small enough wheels, you will find this out, yourself. But because there is no way to tell the different until you've done this more than a few times, the internet will never know it!
Great tutorial Marc. Thank you for the education..
Let me add a word of caution here.
As Marc has demonstrated, the welding of the blade is quite straight forward on a commercial welder, where the applicable parameters are simply "dialled in".
Heat treating the weld is a horse of a different colour; and it is imperative that the annealing instructions as given on the blade container, be followed exactly, especially as pertaining to colour and ambient light conditions.
Different manufacturers have different requirements for this annealing operation, and I recall one container stating "heat to dull red", whereas the other container stated "heat to dull red in subdued light"! A big difference, and it showed up in the number of blades that broke at the weld I had made so carefully.
Moral of the story: If all fails, read the instructions! I would opine that 99% of the joining failures are due to improper heat treatment after welding, and subsequently after grinding.
I've been a machinist for 30 years and never got this right. Not because I can't but because I was never taught how to
do it the right way...then again, I never asked. For a lazy machinist, you know better. Thanks for sharing .
I've got a blade welder but never knew I was supposed to temper after annealing. I hope that will solve my problem of blades breaking at the weld. Thanks! Subscribed.
I want to purchase this unit..please contact me
jmshanga@yahoo.co.uk
From .TANZANIA
My whatsup number 255716040224
Very interesting video Marc, I was always wondering how it was done properly.
Marc. Have you put a blade together with the silver soldering technique? If so, perhaps you can demonstrate that some time. Its more common in the home shops. Thanks
You video on recognizing and distinguishing different steels was fantastic.
I have one small issue with the bandsaw blade welding sequence.
Tempering is only applicable to a hardened object.
Once the object or weld joint is annealed, it is annealed.
I agree! Annealed steel is annealed. I should have mentioned that the tempering at the end is more of a safety operation just in case the annealing step was not perfect. When annealing the blade it is difficult to control the cooling speed so I tend to do the "unnecessary tempering" since it is a lot easier to control by the color. Thanks for a great comment and thanks for taking the time to write. Your comment will help others and that is what comments are all about. Marc
I agree, and I like how you call it "unnecessary tempering." If calling it "unnecessary" satisfies the PhD's in metallurgy, let it be so. I do this unnecessary step, too. It is not necessary for my band saw blades to not break, prematurely. I just unnecessarily prefer it that way.
It takes a year or so of breaking blades for someone to start doing this unnecessary step. It takes only 5 minutes to do an internet search on heat treating and to say this is wrong. :)
Thanks for the video. I have been cutting and grinding my blades at a slight angle by putting them teeth to back. The theory is there is a larger surface area for the weld and the angle puts less stress when the joint passes the material being cut rather then a 90 degree angle. Your website teaching is great God bless you.
@@THATLAZYMACHINIST The "blueing" operation after grinding off the flash from the weld is to reduce the stresses introduced by grinding. This is a necessary operation that prolongs blade life.
Thanks sir for this great presentation
Don't forget the back of the blade also needs to be ground true so it rides smoothly against it's bearing surface.
Hi great video, the only thing I don't agree it's the tempering you said you did because as far as I know in order to be tempered, first have to be hardened , not annealed.
Hello Marc
Very nice video and EVERYTHING perfect explained !
Your (and my) method of welding bandsaw blades are identical !!
Beste regards from Mainz, Germany
Fritz Lottmann
that's awesome. I learned how to save money righ there.
I'm having trouble with my bandsaw blade welder my welds are breaking constantly it's very frustrating all these parameters I'm taking into account it still can't get a good weld the welds are good but the customers bring back the blades broken at the weld are they misusing the bandsaw or am I doing a terrible job welding
Thanks Marc.
At where i work my boss taught me that it is better to have the teeth of the band saw not looking towards you , that it is better the teeth to be lined up , do you think is this a better method ?
We have a DoAll DBW-1C Bandsaw-Blade Welder, my husband has rewired it. We need a new light and maybe a new socket for it. We are not haveing any luck in replaceing this. Also the escutcheon is'nt working right. Any Ideas please. Thank You, Rosie
I had no idea it was so complicated. Explains why all my attempts at tig welding a blade were brittle and broke.
Hi Mark, I have never tried to tig weld a blade (I have a lot of respect for welders because it is something that I have difficulty doing) but I suspect that if you let the blade cool very slowly or if you anneal the blade before it starts to crack, you might have better success. I have however "hard silver soldered" blades (before I had access to a resistance welder) and it works quite well. Thanks for watching, Marc L'Ecuyer P.S. If you wish to understand more about the hardening of steel, you could watch my heat treatment videos, you can link to them from my website THATLAZYMACHINIST.COM
I have a 1903 Disston saw manual(reprint) that goes into detail on hard soldering bandsaw blades, using chunks of iron and a blacksmith forge. (simplified here) It calls for grinding the ends to a very shallow and matching taper for a large contact area, fluxing, then placing solder in the joint and squashing the whole works between the two red hot soldering irons until the solder melts. Special heat treatment isn't needed if performed well as it doesn't exceed the critical temperature of the steel.
A guy who welds bandsaw blades test the weld by throwing the blade (back side down) on the shop floor. Is this ok to do?
any test as well if it doesn't compromise the integrity of the bandsaw, i means if it doesn't break out in another section !
jersson lopez I am welder too ! lol
Sir there are four types of Resistance welding process which are spot welding and seam welding, projection welding, flash welding, & upset welding but which process did you used?
Butt welding. Methinks upset welding is much like it.
WHAT ARE YOU ALL LAUGHING ABOOT? WHY DO YOU LAUGH EVERY TIME I SAY "ABOOT?"
XD
Hi XD! What are you talking aboot? Thanks for watching, Marc.
@@THATLAZYMACHINIST XD is not a name...it's from before millenials broke the internet with emojis. It's the emoticon for a laughing face with closed eyes.
@@salsuginusrex5196 Now I feel even older than before! Well I guess that everyone is older than before. Other than a happy face , I have no clue as to the meaning of emojis. I guess the heart means "I love it".
@@THATLAZYMACHINIST Emoticons:
Happy face :)
Sad :(
Big smile :D
Laughing my ass off XD
Great Vid! Why do you have to temper, if you already annealed? Doesn't annealing the blade render it soft? Thanks!
You are right!
Bring up to temperature, quench it (some steels do quench on air), anneal it.
So one of the steps was useless: Either annealing or tempering.
But it didn't hurt. :-))
Gotcha. You're right, no harm done. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something.
Great, only problem is you can't butt weld m42 bi- metal blades, only the poorer carbon blades you can butt weld
I think this guy was the rabbi on Seinfeld.
no kidding, I bust a bandsaw blade and came here hoping for something barely above 'light a match under where the blade un-joined, hold them together and experience joy'
Woodglut scripts contain most of the woodworking plans you can find.