Monster Melee - Gorgon vs. 7 Rust Monsters
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- Can the iron-plated gorgon take down a horde of rust monsters before they reduce it to a pile of rust? This actually turned out to be one of the freakier D&D battles I have run in this series.
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An adventurer: Damn it, they ate my greaves. That's annoying.
A gorgon: *literally getting flayed and eaten alive*
Yeah man, this one actually turned out pretty dark and freaky, almost a horror-fantasy style.
@@esperthebard
Rather appropriate, considering how close to the Spooky Season this episode was!
One time, I decided to have a particularly ingenious warband of Goblins actually ride Rust Monsters they had bred specifically for that purpose, into battle, instead of Worgs or Wolves.
The Rust Monsters charged in, wreaking absolute havoc on the local militia and Players as all of their weapons and armor started getting destroyed, while the Goblins were attacking with clubs and stone spears.
My players were quite annoyed at me for a few sessions after that.
I’m stealing that idea. I wish my group had a paladin…
What a brutal way of killing a construct like creature like that. I could imagine a more intelligent, being of iron like a war forged would see this is an absolute nightmare.
when is the next guard battle 👀
Better question. When will Elmar have his rematch?
The plan is mid-to-late October, maaaybe nearly November.
@@esperthebard Yes the guards agaisnt a group of the undead
Elmar died, we'd need to recruit a new leader for the guards
Elmars comrades must lvl up and avenge him
If that Gorgon had turned and fought some time before getting squeezed into a tight tunnel, it might’ve won. Granted, it’s still so dependent on that recharge roll and the failed saves on the petrification.
Horns and hooves rust away before the rustmonsters are all dead.
possibly but i dont think it wanted to get surrounded and possibly overwhelmed by getting attacked by all 7 every round
With the number of failed recharges it got it would have been reduced to AC10 much faster, before it got that recharge. Several rust monsters would have been gored and killed but probably 3 or 4 would have survived and fled to return later and scavenge the dead gorgon. I think the Gorgon would have lost movement due to exhaustion and been unable to follow before it had caught up with more than one rusty. Pretty much the same outcome. If the Gorgon recharged quicker or waited to get more than 3 initially it might have gone differently but it's not that bright and would have had difficulty estimating the number of adversaries.
Very inventive pairing!
Thanks! The initial idea was an iron golem vs. a bigger horde of rust monsters, but then I saw that rust monsters cannot affect magical targets.
Hydra vs Treant
A fight you could do is take a few humanoid stat blocks and put them up against a cyclops in a reenactment of Odysseus and his men fighting the Cyclops. A new iteration but higher level of guards maybe with a mixed team of guards, veterans and gladiator. Maybe even a bandit or bandit captain.
Love this idea!
Tell me you’ve listen to the epic saga without telling me
I just might have to do that. Let's see!
I love this monster melee series. Please keep doing the cool shit you do. Requesting knolls vs some kinda fey enemy
Once again asking for a Gnoll pack led by a Flind with some limited Demon support vs Minotaur warband led by a Goristro
Shoosuva and Maw Demons are both created by Yeenoghu (demon lord and creator of Gnolls) and Bulezau are associated with him, so those are pretty good options for demon support
4:08 that insect sound is great lol
Right?! I was only listening to the video initially and did a double take!
1:38 in and I'm going to call it for the Rust Monsters right off the bat due to action economy. Edit at the end to see if I called it right. (Edit: Yup.)
I agree and I think my biggest critique of this series is that Esper sometimes undervalues that factor even when the CRs are comparable.
I @@obi-wan-jacobi840
@@obi-wan-jacobi840 Agreed. Some of these battles are pretty lopsided. But I can empathize. I'm a fairly new GM and balancing encounters is heckin' hard because the CR system is the hottest of garbage.
@fivestringslinger honeslty it doesn't ever get better you can make it less swingy through experience and such but never not a teeth pulling practice
@@fivestringslinger But if you actually do the math correctly it kinda works (well for around levels 1-12 after that the balance in the game is all over the place).
By pure math a gorgon vs 7 enemies is an Encounter CR 3( as in it is worth 900xp which is closer to 3 as to 4). And 7 rust monsters against a single enemy are a CR 5(as in they are worth 2100xp, which is not enough for cr 6)
(For challenging players, you just have to remember that 4PCs are supposed to be able to defeat 8 fights of the same CR as their level per day, use the rules in the dmg to figure out what Encounter CR you need to actually have something of an appropriate challenge)
Action economy wins (Predicting before I view)
Is it wrong that I think rust monsters in this game are.. strangely adorable?
You are definitely not alone in that sentiment.
This would be a gruesome sight for an adventuring party to stumble upon in a cave network. A bunch of petrified Rust monsters and the remains of a flayed Gorgon. The players should be able to figure out what happened pretty well.
What an interesting battle. Both groups had alternative win conditions. Still hoping for a neogi slaving expedition (neogis and umber hulks) versus some unwary prey, but I'll take whatever the Bard and the other fans think up.
You should do a Vampire Werewolf. Maybe a Vampire with 2 Vampire Spawn vs a pack of Werewolfs like one Werewolf is beefed up as the Alpha Pack Leader like add 3 Barbarian levels or something and 3 or 4 base Werewolfs.
There's a great beefed up werewolf statblock in the Ravenloft book that would work for this.
Clergy of Bahamut + his aspect vs Cult of Tiamat + her aspect.
David Attenburogh dressed as a wizard narrates "here we see a Gorgon fall prey to a pack of rust monsters. Driven by hunger to attack a fearsome foe who has wande
red into their territory."
I imagine that half the rust from the gorgon's hide probably washed down into that underwater cave, but whatever still clings to its flesh or fell off during its struggled wandering would still be plenty for two rust monsters.
What a way to go. Skinned alive! In front of the statues too, just waiting to die. That was horrific!
The AD&D version of the Rust Monster was terrifying
When the gorgon is squeezing attacks against it have advantage don't they? This would counteract the disadvantage from restrained. 16:04
Good catch!
I just gained a new feat. Fear of bugs! That poor gorgon.
Given the history of Saving throw rolls on this series, I pretty much guessed the gorgon was done for lol!
Yep, rust monsters hit different. Especially against fighters and the armored.
I love your content and while I understand why you try to find evenly matched teams, I would love to see some surprising mismatches too. A low CR spellcaster who can charm kill a super high level brute or an elemental who is able to take out an army in the right terrain. Surprising inflection points make for interesting matches too.
For some high-level action, a Drow Matron Mother vs a Nightwalker could be interesting.
What an amazing fight! I never thought about using rust monsters in such a way! Always thought of them as the perfect natural weapon in a skirmish or war, but not by themselves against creatures that have metal naturally! Thanks for the idea, I will be sure to make a horror scene inspired by this fight
Great fight! Awesome to see something go down in a different way than hp loss
If I recall the lore videos I’ve seen of it correctly, a gorgon’s armor doesn’t regenerate.😅
Meaning that barring some insane luck on its part, the only thing that was ever in question was if any of the rust monsters would live to feast.
Vampire and Revenant from Monstrous Heroes.
These videos are my favorite, Like a wildlife ecology surely can give a living breathing world and some fun downtime for the DM. Like i can imagine the exploring party finding scraps/carcass of a gorgon, and lots of possible rust monster eggs/larvae.
For possible next or future videos perhaps: Like deeper in the caverns, a Umber Hulk has sensed the presence of Hook Horrors and is very hungry.
I was about to say the save DC should be 15, and you mentioned it yourself! Great job!
Wizard of the coasts, fix your game mates
Yeah I don't know what the heck they did with that one. I probably should have just house-ruled it.
@@esperthebard They have many many mistakes like that. Especially with "simpler" saves. The triceratops trampling charge save DC is 13, while it should be 17. Same with the elephant.
Same with many, many creatures. I stumble upon such mistakes every now and then, because I really like putting monsters against one another to test CR balance.
this felt very realistic.
Metallic dragon vs chromatic dragon in the clouds/scenic place would be dope
I hope another gorgon came along to eat the lichen this one didn't get to enjoy.
The Valor’s Call vs 2 Fleecemane Lions
I could see rust monsters being natural predators of the gorgon.
Here's an idea:
Hydra vs an army of Yuan-Ti
halaster vs acererak would be neat
🤯
That would take Esper a long time to film. XD
Definitely need at rematch of that one.
Awesome fight! Rematch! Rematch!
Not sure how well this could work, but maybe make one of theses melees as a race?
Could use some of the chase rules as they both fight while they chase after a goal that could help them drastically in the battle.
A hag coven (your choice of 3 hags) vs a unicorn and a group of pixies for control of the unicorn's grove in the Faewild.
I was always curious about this sortof situation, this will be interesting
Poor Gorgon was rolling like me... lol
Such an awesome match up!
I'd love to see your take on a Catoblepas! I've also said that it's a monster that can punch well above it's CR level.
What an excellent match-up, very nice!
Well, the Law of large numbers has won. Quite expectedly.
Suggestion for the Next Episode:
Giant Ape VS Tyranosaurus Rex.
The two strongest Beasts you can Polymorph to. In theory, The T-Rex is strionger by Challenge Rate, but the Giant Ape has more hitpoints and a few other abilities that makes this rating suspcious.
@@LoboGuara5bruxaria I like that idea!
This gorgon is based off a Lybian mythological creature rather than the Greek species Medusa belongs to. So at least in this case, it wasn't a developer quirk.
Totally scratched the itch that I suggested earlier, Rust monsters vs Animated Armors!
Now if only he does a Blue or Red wyrmling vs a Manticore...
I think World War Fey would make a cool subseries. Maybe you could start slow and build to an all out battle?
Don't HAND ROLL for ALL MONSTERS, hand roll for half, use a tipping cup or number generator for the other team, the matches will be MUCH BETTER
Gotta commend you for such interesting matchups!
Spoilers
Poor gorgon, but the rust devils got their due. Now, a sumptuous feast waits the foul beasts as the defiled basilisk crumbles away.
Can we have a demon vs. devil rematch? I think Pit Fiend vs. Molydeus will be much closer.
All I know is I need some Chewinga moves
Battle idea: Froghemoth vs Hydra
I tend to not particularly like those kinds of recharge mechanics, in a logic kind of way. The organ of a particular creature that produces the charge for the effect can sometimes just fail to work at all, and other times it works overtime.
Yeah, tension for whether or not it recharges, cool game mechanic, but for me it takes away more than it gives.
It would be cool to see some god teir monsters do battle.
Yeah this one doesn't make alot of sense to me why the Gorgon would just do nothing but run away. It's essentially a bull monster and bulls would probably go down swinging. I can see it repositioning and running away, but at some point, it should have taken the opportunity to charge at small critters and try to gore and stomp them.
0:51 Seena cavern? I can’t say I have, but I’ll keep lookin’!
Ruddy, fel oxidization. 😵💫 Really stove me in with that description.
What website does he use? Is it just roll 20?
He mentions about 9:28 that he uses Foundry VTT
Foundry is sort of a beast to learn, but I like it better than Roll20 in many ways.
Thank you both so much! I didn’t expect to see Esper the actually respond to me. I love the series and catch wait to see more.
Did anyone else figure that the Rust Monsters would win this match?
Cool fight idea.
How about Seelie Court vs. Unseelie Court? I would encourage you to test yourself here. High numbers of combatants, and a variety of type of Fey on each side would be a nice evolution for the series. I can be patient. I know this is asking a lot.
These fights really highlight some things.
The recharge on breath attacks makes them too random. The Gorgon wins the fight if it recharges on the second round or just recharges on every 3rd round.
Number of rolls is king. Having 3 attacks that do 1d10 on hit is almost always better than a single attack that could do 5d10.
Disadvantage is too strong of a penalty. Looking at all the monster melee fights. Monsters should be looking to avoid disadvantage at all costs no matter intelligence.
I mean, he did make the gorgon run away a bunch, presumably to try and get it to recharge. So I think he was kinda biased towards that direction already
I think 7 rust monsters is a bit too much. The rust monsters, like intelect devourer, are monsters that "breaks" CR logic due to its severely debbufing ability
Wanna see a Solar angel vs a pit fiend 😜
Great battle!
Suggestion: Do a Kaiju size battle, two of the most largest creatures in DnD fighting each other in a city with the city's defense forces trying to stop them both.
I want to do something like that. The other day, I spent hours trying to figure out what the tarrasque could fight. Unfortunately, I couldn't find anything that fits. So many things cannot harm it at all, but then there are some things that can easily kill it by flying or teleporting always out of its reach and using magical ranged weapons or Dex-save magic. In the end, the tarrasque (like most 5e monsters) is designed to fight a party of characters, not as how it would actually function in the context of the fantasy world.
@esperthebard understand, thank you for trying, I look forward to your Kaiju/ DnD interpretation in the future 🙏
elephants vs hobgoblins
Harpies and some other non-humanoid like maybe a Needle Blight, Twig Blight or some Zombies vs Town Guard maybe?
Slaadi vs Modrons
This battle reminds me of the meme with girl on the sofa and several guys behind her looking at her.
I think my only suggestion would be to have another person involved, and a "dungeon master" act as judge. splitting your focus as the 2 opposing sides and acting as DM can make you lose focus occasionally.
other than that, I still like this.
thumbs up!
Gorgon losing its ability to attack as it hits will cause it to be helpless except breath before it runs out of rust monsters... This encounter is a lose for gorgon unless its breath weapon turns the rust monsters to stone.
What about Kas (a warrior vampire with the Sword of Kas) vs Vecna (a lich, before he'd lost his eye and hand)?
I cannot for the life of me ever understand the tactics being used here. Why doesn't the Gorgon attack? With its damage it could potentially one shot these things and all it does is run away for half of the fight until it has to make attacks with disadvantage that makes no sense
If it just stood and fought it would have risked getting surrounded which would have lead to all the iron covering its body getting turned into rust very quickly. Canonically gorgons avoid rust monsters, and the iron covering their body doesn't grow back, even a single rust monster hit would leave a permanent weak point on their body. The second the gorgon was fully rusted the rust monsters would have won and just run away until it was safe to come back and eat the rust, they never had to finish it off themselves.
@@GlamEye Sure but it had several choke points to avoid being surrounded. (Little note here Esper does this weird thing where he allows several medium creatures in the same space. I dont get it, but not my video) It not recharging its breath is unfortunate but With that 2d12 it could have taken a couple out then retreated. Also looking at Gorgon physiology and lore Gorgons can lose their plates naturally through sickness and this doesn't kill them so it could've continued fighting after it lost its armor. It losing all of its plates doesnt cause death.
"If a scale somehow succumbed to intense rusting it would fall off the body - this left the gorgon vulnerable, since they were incapable of growing new ones."
This does not mention death only vulnerability.
Gorgon? But I see no snakes!
Right? It's the gorgon from The History of Four-Footed Beasts, not from Greek mythology.
Death Cleric vs Oathbreaker Paladin
Rust monsters are rarely used but they are pretty chunky for a 1/2 cr creature as 27hp is nothing to scoff at.
It's piecing bite is the only real draw back as d8+1 is very so so but the Antennae ability more then makes up for it.
Nothing like an over confident paladin or fighter regretting getting over confident with rust monsters.
I recall a game when I was wizard forest gnome & i was only party member to make it out as I had no Iron or steel unlike like the paladin, hex blade-warlock or cleric as i didn't even have a dagger but a staff & a slingshot.
All 3 of them thought my Ac of 16 from mage armour was to low but even the warlock with 1/2plate+shield=19Ac was swarmed 1st then the paladin in full plate at twenty something.
Paladin could have lived if he didn't using his slots on smites in prior combats.
The Cleric was the only to put up a fight.
Still they thought my 16Ac was low but I did have the =5 Ac shield spell while avoiding melee unlike all of them.
High Dex & Con with Gnome Cunning makes you fairly safe up against all saving throws but strength.
I'd rather Good saving throws or advantage on saves over high AC any day as a modest AC is fine.
If we were not a level 4 party but 5 then matters would have been very different as 3rd slot spells is were the wizard starts to come online.
Why didn't gorgon attack instead of going into the water. Or especially not going down a tunnel with water.
If a gorgon charged someone with horns lowered, I'm not sure how it would still do piercing damage _and_ knock someone prone. Unless you get hit by the blunt side of its horns, any momentum forcing you back or down would be relatively slight (given the actual point of contact being as small as the sharp tip of a horn) and entirely counteracted by the sharp objects impaling you and keeping you in place.
What _I_ think would make more sense is if it only knocked targets prone if it rolls low on the attack, or on the damage _of_ the attack (in which case, it will deal bludgeoning damage rather than piercing); but if it rolls high, it will instead impale them, lift them, toss them, and _then_ trample them.
Tiamat vs Kraken when?
Gorgon verse Medusa
Yes please and thanks!
Gorgons are immune to petrification while Madusas aren't, so the Gorgon has a fairly big advantage on this one.
@@thurismundbotheric7598 true but the Medusa does actually have ranged attacks and is intelligent unlike the gorgon.
Good video. ❤
You would think the Rust Monsters have to roll attack to cause rust. Automatic? 😢
Weird ruling and different DM styles i understand it as Monstrosities are creatures made from some kind of magical experiment/event. And since the Gorgon is a Monstrosity id assume the magicnthat made would mean the iron plates are magical making them immune to the rust touch of the rust monster... but different interpretation
Can you try to do more balanced battles? I feel 7 rust monsters vs 1 gorgon is just a wash
the Gorgon has a 2 in int, can it really do strategical thinking like repositioning for attacks and repositioning at that?
What’s the program/website you use for these fights? I would like to know so that my own dnd group might use it.
Foundry VTT
@@esperthebard thank you!
huh so the no engagement auto loss from the elemental video is not carring over i see
Also love the videos
This should be a PC game
Ant-tin-eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Poor gorgon...
i just started this vid have not seen the outcome i bet 50 gold on the rustys