How do you guys like the longer Monster Melee video? A secondary objective, more dynamic terrain, and more tactics involved Regarding comments about the terrain favoring the elves, keep in mind that the dwarves started close to the secret passage that really only they could open and had no danger to it. The elves had to either get blasted by thunderwaves on the stairs or attempt DC 20 climb checks with +0 Athletics. As we've seen many times, so much comes down to luck. The dwarves rolled poorly throughout most of the encounter, while the elves overall rolled good (especially on their damage rolls).
I adore having the longer videos. The extra objective and stuff makes me even more invested with how things will play out and how it can effect the battle.
I would suggest, if you have one side who is both faster and has longer range, you limit the ammunition or add something to the other side so that they actually have a chance. There is no reason the elves wouldnt just permanently kite the dwarves and never worry about getting hit
Although I agree with this to a certain degree, I'd say it's exactly the point of these battles. Elves with range are superior to and a harder enemy than dwarves at range. Give the dwarves some throwing axes and maybe we've got a fight on our hands.
@@ShrimpEmporium Stats aren't everything as you can see from this example fight. The only way a Duergar can even get within melee range of a Drow is if the Drow allows it to.
I like the idea of having an objective with this but the arena felt pretty skewed towards the elves advantages, they already have twice the speed of the dwarves and the dwarves weren’t given any real ranged abilities. If 20 minutes in one side has only made one attack I think it’s a bit off 😂
Seriously skewed toward the elves. Should have been a forest so there was cover and maybe give the Dwarves heavy crossbows so they stood a chance at range. But this arena threw them out onto an open beach to face a bunch of multi-attack archers. It certainly wasn't a fair fight. Dwarves can be pretty stubborn, but I have a hard time believing they would have thrown tactics to the wind and run out into the middle of a shooting gallery.
Completely agree one Chang that would have helped quit a bit would have been having a artificer instead of fighter. Would have fit the runes better and helped make up with spells.
@@sidecharacter7165 that and 2 attacks per turn vs 1 as a massive action econemy advantage cause well 1 mis 1 hit is still damage vs no damage per turn. This is not a contest.
Yoiu should have given the dwarves crossbows instead of throwing axes. Then again, with all the elf multi-attacks, I don't think the poor dwarves stood much of a chance anyway. Alas for all Dwarf-kin! For the traitorous knife-ears have stolen the Sacred Cove.
Yeah, I'd like to see in a future battle the same group of Elves being chased in a cavern by a group of similar Dwarves. Only this time, the Elves come across a dead end or a locked door and must fight their way out. Maybe the Elves could still have 3 or 4 rounds to exploit their speed/longbow advantage before the Dwarves close in.
@@christianlangdon3766I mean, I think its fine if the terrain and objective worked with it, but neither did. If the dearves had to defend a building for example, or if one side of the map was dense with cover and the other more open, I can see it working.
Great setup overall, loved the objective and the longer video. Esper, my suggestion is that dwarves and elves aren't necessarily restricted to bows or axes. For example, the dwarf party could have had a few crossbow dwarves and the elves could have had a couple melee warriors or some other combination. These are your monster melees, so keep it up and use my suggestion if you desire. Thanks for the video.
@@simoneriksson8329 That's just standard practice in warfare. They're warriors, not modern police. The reality of war is that mercy to your enemies is often cruelty to your comrades. Especially when it's a vindictive, habitually seething dwarf.
These are really fun. Whether or not this specific one gets a rematch, these really are neat to watch. But I have to agree that the Dwarves made some mistakes. They won't have perfect knowledge of the situation, but if these are soldiers who know something of what they are up against (and just what elves with bows can do to their precious internal organs doesn't come as a nasty shock), they know the danger they are in. They need to decide, right at the start, if they are focusing on the objective, or on the threat. If they are focused on the objective, they should have all gone for the secret door. If they are focused on the threat, they should have all charged. The elves can afford to have one or two scout out the way to the goal while the rest shoot, since they have range and speed. They're hardly even splitting their force with that bow range. The Dwarves really can't afford to be indecisive or split. Can the Dwarves tell that there's some sort of passage there that might lead them to their goal, and not just a clue that might just point them in a new direction? Then it would make sense for all of them go there. Then the could all try and figure it out, or at least have some work at it while others cover them. Once they did that, they'd be able to get up on the rocks and rush for the objective, or just have the high ground to throw from. A single elf would *probably* still beat them to the goal, but the elves as a whole would have a real struggle getting all of them up there to fight them. Really, once the elves see and KNOW the passage leads up to the high ground, they might be forced to race for the passage and follow the Dwarves (potentially getting hit with axes, or even getting in a close quarter fight with Dwarves left behind to guard the passage, since that MIGHT be one place where splitting up makes sense for them), instead of taking the more chancy routes. They could have also opted to simply charge. They might not have a top-down perfectly knowledge of the scenario, but they can still realize that they can't possibly beat the Elves in a race, whatever it involves. That's still probably a losing scenario, and the single elf that managed to get to the boon might wipe them all out even if they beat the ones on the ground, but they MIGHT have managed to pin the elves against the water or against the cliff and gotten some licks in.
I think it would be interesting to see two rival gangs of monster hunters fighting each other *and a monster, both parties trying to claim the nonster's head as a trophy.
See now it's that vindictive dwarfish nature why the only sensible policy when fighting dwarves is to show no mercy and leave no survivors. You cannot leave a single one alive to tell the tale or else.
I think for those soldiers I would look back to 3e (as so often I do) because all the core races were featured in the Monster Manual alongside a statement something like "Most ___ encountered outside their homes are warriors. The stat block is for a warrior of 1st level."
It is easy for viewers to say this or that about advantages and disadvantages after seeing the results, instead of predicting ahead of time. In any case I think the map and lore was very cool. Your voice acting and sound effects is also always a lot of fun too.
Agreed, and I actually thought the dwarves means to get to the shrine was much easier than the elves before watching the fight. A lot of hindsight merchants in the comments.
So besides the extra movement speed, what really made this fight unfair is the fact that the elf scouts had multiattack and the dwarf warriors did not. Every elf was thus getting two attacks per round while the dwarves, even when they got into melee, got one. There is no way they could have out damaged the elves.
~~ SPOILERS ~~ Dwarves were fighting at a massive disadvantage being stuck in the open here. Weirdly I think if the positions were switched it would have been a lot more interesting. Dwarves stubbornly trying to ascend the thunderwave steps while the elves either open the secret passage or try and pick off the dwarves before they reach the shrine. It gives those tree loving salad eaters a reason to do more than just kite and shoot. In any case, the dwarves tried their best. ROCK AND STONE!
Going into my pre-fight prediction! With the slow speed of the dwarves, limited ranged options, and the fact that they start a whole football field away, I predict that the Dwarves are going to get absolutely shredded without killing a single Elf. Let's see how the extra objective comes into play! I think the extra speed and the ranged options of the elves will simply make it even more favored for the elves with getting to the idol first. Excited to see how it plays out nonetheless!
I’m with you. Prefight call. Stersanil needs to hightail it to that objective get that boon. In fact all of the scouts need to use their speed and get up on that outcropping. When the dwarves get close disengage then all dive into the water after Sternsanil has the boon. From there swim south, hit the beach and wait for the dwarves to come and nail em with a tidal wave. Now…let me get punched in the face and go to plan B.
@@joydjinn8692 Funny enough, even his death was a little bit of a mistake by Esper, which isn't a big deal. Thragdolan had already used his reaction for Parry. The Elf Scout could have run 35 feet away without fear of an attack of opportunity! Giving the Dwarves a pity kill is a kindness I suppose 😅
@@ElfieElfieElf Yeah, with this big of an open area against foe with 10ft more movement speed and longbows. It was pretty doomed from the start. Maybe it would have been a closer fight if he would have committed to one strategies with his whole crew (either all of them take the hidden pathway or they all rushed the Elves on the beach). The Elves would've still won though.
I love these monster melees. They are very fun! With that frontloaded into my comment for clarity's sake, the rest of my comment: The tactics of the Dwarves weren't very coordinated. It did not seem like the Dwarves had a good plan of action for what to do as a team. Perhaps next time Dwarves fight, they can have a clear objective that they stick to. Even if the thing they decide to do is the wrong thing, at least they'd be doing the wrong thing *together*, which improves their odds of accomplishing something of worth.
Loved how you used the terrain and added elements to it like the shrine! Looking forward to more of these. On an unrelated note, I've been playing a dragon from Monstrous Heroes in a game, and loving being able to be an actual dragon!
Rematch!! However swap the starting positions. Dwarves closer to the map objective would pull the elves into them and negate "some" of their range and speed advantages. Side note* I also enjoy the matches where there are named heroes. I find myself rooting for the named characters, hoping they survive and return to future battles with some elements of character progression (such as the Elmar and wolves). Keep up the good work!!!
Not sure what the game mechanics permit, but I'd have figured setting up a shieldwall. Let those arrows bounce off until the passage was opened, then move in either let the Elves trap themselves by trying to make for the statue first or block off the stairways. With the Elves likely taking the blessing first regardless it'd still have been a tough fight, but more so to the Dwarves' favor.
What a miss-match. Map should have been small and forced elves into melee. They still have an advantage with multi-attack. Rematch for the dwarf fans!!
A fight you could do is take a few humanoid stat blocks and put them up against a cyclops in a reenactment of Odysseus and his men fighting the Cyclops. A new iteration but higher level of guards maybe with a mixed team of guards, veterans and gladiator. Maybe even a bandit or bandit captain.
@@maximusinvictus8802 I forget who was what. I think one side was LG and the other was CG. Didn’t even consider alignment when that popped into me head. Just thought capturing a “leader” is a nice prize. I mean those named guys get death saves for a reason…maybe we use them every so often…it could create a follow up encounter. I love these since I haven’t played in years. Looking forward to the next.
The dwarves could have been given crossbows, otherwise the map just makes it impossible for this to be a fair fight. Dwarves are defensive fighters, so I don’t understand why they would just run out through the open with no chance of even reaching the enemy.
Monster Melee is super enjoyable thanks a lot for this Esper! If you have some time and think this is interesting, It would be nice to see a wild magic sorcerer village attacked by red wizards of Thay! I remember in the BG1, BG2 games there was a plot thread that the red wizards thought the wild magic users where dangerous and had to be eliminated! There could be extra objectives like protect the village from distraction from the wild magic sorcerer side or capture a few wild magic users alive to study from the red wizards side.
4 місяці тому
Hail good Bard! Love these longer and larger Monster Melee battles. Great work Sir. Very good video and a lot of fun to watch. reminds me how much I miss playing D&D and wish I could find a good game. These videos all show the Randomness of the game based on Dice rolls!
If I may make another suggestion, I'd love to see Tiamat do battle. Maybe Tiamat vs Lloth? Lol it's not quite theme, but Tiamat vs the leveled up group from the old d&d cartoon would also be a hoot
I love all the Monster Melees. I didn't know that I needed this in my life. My only thought would be perhaps to have 2 DM's battle it out; one on either side of the battle. You both agree on the terrain, the rules, & the two combatants and then randomly assign which side of the combat you are on. Just a thought.
lmao...Last dwarf standing makes a run for it, slips on rocks, falls to his death. Instant karma. Also instant sub from me. Really fun video! Thanks for making it!
I’ve been going over the “soldiers” in my campaign. I find the stat blocks are poorly put together, and the Dwarves kind of show that in this fight. The dwarves have slow speed and they have only one short range thrown weapon. When I look at real world soldiers and special forces, they try and mitigate their weaknesses and take advantage of their strengths. So, I have been taking time to build them in such a way that they are effective for their challenge rating.
I enjoyed it as a change of pace but I prefer the shorter battles. Also, I think the elves should have captured the fallen dwarf leader and handed him back to his clan if the dwarves promised to give up their claim to the sanctuary. Pretty brutal the way they ended him.
I would love a "running battle" type of fight. Like say there are some Wood Elf or Satyr or some other creature that is faster then the standard 30' and they have to make it to the safety of the fort walls. Along the way is just hordes of zomberts and skelltrons trying to kill them. Maybe throw in someone that can Turn Undead but only like once. It would be impossible to kill all the undead so they have to run for safety.
This is a lot of fun. I think the dwarves would adopt better battle tactics for situations like this. Splitting the platoon and running everywhere was not the best option.
I find these really fun when it’s a story involved - great stuff! The voices are great too 😆 EDIT: This is my personal opinion - a lot of people in the comments seem to be talking about the tactics and I get it, but for me it’s helping to understand the stat blocks better and how I might use it in my own games. I got to see weaknesses here that maybe I could plan for in my own games! I liked the story of the statue and I’m totally stealing these names 🍻 great video Esper!
I'd say, since elf was a ranger. We could do a dwarves cleric hero to just balance this encounter rather than making it a fighter. Since we know that dwarves are also religious and their leader could compliment their tough nature. At the end, the terrain was nice to balance this open ground, them not being able to decipher runes was a misfortune, but kinda expected as this is a dice game and elves were better at climbing/ walking down those wards. On the other hand elves, not being wood elves but high elves could balance the speed problem could help but their proficiency as high elves could hurt dwarves but on the other hand dwarves could be hill dwarves... that wouldn't help with the deciphering but could help the cleric idea a bit more. Or mountain dwarves to dish out a bit more damage. Also dwarves are well known craftsman, maybe firearms or crossbows could stabilize a bit better this situation but eh... fair is fair. When I saw this, although I liked dwarves a bit more than elves, I admitted that elves would win, especially wood elves being faster was no big contest. Even when they missed so many attacks at the beginning.
I like the idea of this one a lot, but I think the fight played to the strength's of the elves (reaching a point). If this would've been the dwarves trying to fortify a stronghold it would've been very different
We should definitely do, a wizard, 2 Halfling rouges, Human fighter, dwarf fighter, Human Ranger and Elf ranger/ fighter ( archer) vs a Balor!! a bit more serious one is I wanted to see all the hag covens fight each other but night hag coven are a bit higher CR with the other two, but if you’re making stats maybe you can modify them to make it more fair? If you want to of course. as always I enjoy watching these and I enjoy the story you read recently
Long time DM here, 30+ years. Yes, I like the longer format, if it enable you to really dig into the combat. Good stuff, thanks for posting. This battle was a bit one-side toward the Elves advantage, but realistically, the Elves might have spotted them at a distance and waited behind cover for a surprise round. Still did not play to dwarf advantages, perhaps a drow elf raid on an Underdark sentry post or something like that might have given the dwarves a better chance?
This was terrific!!! I would make one recommendation: give viable ranged options to both sides. A longbow vs. a thrown handaxe, coupled with the elves' far superior speed, made this fight very unbalanced in favor of the elves. The dwarves never had a chance. Maybe the dwarves could've had light crossbows, or slings, or something with more range than handaxes. I'd recommend trying to do this for most monster melee battles; otherwise, in most cases, the side with no good ranged attack is quite clearly more likely to lose.
Some balance is good, but not too much. In the end, I don't want all the competitors to be the same. The dwarves had much better AC and HP, the elves had better mobility and ranged capabilities.
@@esperthebard I hear that. It shouldn't be about engineering a perfectly balanced fight - and despite its uneven matchup, this fight was a great illustration of the general superiority of ranged and speed. My favorite battles tend to be the very close ones - where both sides have a chance, an option, a tactic that could turn the tide. All that said - I really love these videos, keep them coming!!!
@@thedog_12 Both the elf scouts and dwarf soldiers are CR 1/2 creatures. They are built with the 5e guidelines. If the elves were to only have 1 attack, their CR would slip down to 1/4 or 1/8, due to the lowered offense.
A capture the flag scenario! Very cool! I wondered if/how you would implement it. Anyway, I think an underground fight between underground groups could be interesting, kuo toa, troglodytes, grimlocks, drow or other.
Loved the secondary objective with lore. I think people are upset it wasnt closer, but thats part of monster meele. Elves just seem to be naturally stronger if they fought because range is very powerful when the opponent is slow. That being said, I agree the specifics of this fight favored the elves MORE than it did the dwarves. I think a more balanced combat with lore could have been that the dwarves started up AT the monument as the meele and had already captured it. The elves show up to reclaim what was theirs. The dwarves are able to use the statue and it will provide blessings too great for the elves to fight if it goes off. The elves could start on top of the mountain as well but where the sigil led. Elves objective is to kill all dawrves BEFORE they can activate the monument. This takes 2 rounds with no elves within 30 ft of the monument interfering. Dwarves goal is to kill all elves or DEFEND the monument till it activates. 1 dwarf has to use his turn each round to maintain activation attempt. This would allow elves to use their range, but FORCE A level of melee interaction by the elves to prevent objective based loss and avoid an infinite kite strategy. If you read this and like the idea feel free to use it and I would LOVE to watch :)
Easy fix to balance would be to homebrew a "shield wall" ability for the dwarves. If they are grouped together in 3 or more ranged attacks from the front have disadvantage against them or something . This would favour dwarves defensive tactics and force the elves to use their mobility to get around the dwarves to try to engage
As a certified knife ear hater, I ain't gonna lie, this monster melee had me seething lol. My poor bearded short kings, thier small legs and lack of crossbows really set them up bad in this match up. By Moradin's mighty beard the dwarves must get thier vengeance on those damned elves!
I think that the dwarves should have dodged and advanced slowly on the battlefield, rushing in to attack only when sufficiently close to the elves. They didn't actively use their armour as much as the elves used their range.
It seems bizarre to me that the dwarves wouldn't come equipped with crossbows. The dwarf lord also sent them here without rations for the return trip, too. He knew that they wouldn't be coming home. The outcome of this battle was pre-ordained.
I say the secondary objectives are a good addition, makes things more interesting rather then just a simple battle. I don't mind the longer time, enjoy it either way. And the diffrent types of terrain and areas are always fun to add for any dnd fight.
Well the first 8:55 of it was just lore. And I gave it my best effort to pay attention to every last word of it. So here I am an hour and a half later.
Great video! Suggest: Kaiju battle, Tarrasque vs. Tiamat battling in a DnD city setting. During their battle, the city's military (catapults, archers, etc) are trying to stop them. Good old 1950s giant monster movie battle, but in a DnD setting.🤓👍🏻
The battle would have been a lot closer if the dwarves had been able to flank and get within melee range. The elves won because their tactics were more favorable for the environment. In an underground tunnel where the dwarves could easily form shield walls and utilize cover, i think it would have been a lot closer. Speaks to home court advantage. But war isnt fair and the dwaves may not have been expecting to meet their elven enemies at the cove. Lets not forget too that the elves just rolled a lot better and landed significantly more blows due to their multi shot. Excellent battle overall!! Looking forward to seeing more drawn-out battles between intelligent humanoids
Classic showdown. Was hoping to see longbow vs crossbow volleys to open, followed by scimitars and axes to finish. But I'll take whatever you toss out there. The dwarves were definitely 'outgunned' in the battle.
Very cool Melee. No probs with terrain...maybe a rematch In a more Dwarf advantaged scenario. Would also love to see adventure parties battling eachother
As others said, this was really good, but Dwarves were at a huge disadvantages, at least give them heavy crossbows. Another thing you could do is give them "Shield Wall" formation, since each overlapping shield gives cover (I would say 3/4 cover). That would slow down the Dwarves, BUT would may them neigh impossible to hit. Allowing them time to get there. Imagine this. They each have 25 movement tops, but can take dodge actions, this would give them 21 AC + Disadvantage to hit. I think that would be great representation of Dwarves style of combat. They are the rock that all enemies crash against, while Elves are the wind that crashes enemies in front o f them.
"It takes more den dat to fell a dwarf! Aye, I'll schnap yer neck like a twig!" I LOVE that everyone's moving more through the battle. My favorite battles are the ones where the environment is just as important as its combatants. I would be super excited for a rematch, but consider placing the secret passage closer to the shrine. Even though both an elf and a dwarf both made it to the top, the slower of the two starts farther away from the divine boon. And both ways to the top required some kind of check anyway. Given the elves' higher mobility, they really were just one successful spell save away from clinching this battle from the get go. Also, you said the runic script was in dwarven. Why not give advantage to the dwarves' skill checks to decipher the script? They are dwarves, after all. Just a suggestion.
spoiler i liked alot the map design and alternate objectives, the shrine was also well balanced as it gave an extra boost without being overpowered, i personally would have attempted to rush shrine with the dwarf leader and bait the elves into meele combat but bad rolls would be a disaster for this strategy if they kept falling and ruin my plan most likely considering my luck lol... the elf speed and range proved lethal, i dont think you should rematch but instead send in some pissed off dwarven reinforcements with slings and throwing axes and then bless the first elf (initiative wise) with the shrine effect, thank you esper for the video it was very fun to watch as always love your work
Fun video! I feel like you may have done the Dwarves a disservice. They know better than to try to rush into battle with a swifter enemy who attacks at range. Dwarves are natural counter-punchers who can take hits and hit back harder. If you do a rematch, and I hope you do, please have the Dwarves move as a tight group, and end each move with a dodge to represent them using their tactics to draw the enemy closer and they slowly, but inexorably, advance on their objective. They also understand the need for cover against elves. I think they could back the elves into the sea and slaughter them in melee, if they did it right and had a bit of luck on their side.
I think so too. Leader should just send one guy to decipher and go on the slow offensive on the elves. Squeezing them and then rushing together at the right moment. Also shield formation should be a thing I guess, because you're using the shield of your guy as a cover, prbably should give +1 AC or something I don't know.
And this is why the 2024 handbook boosts dwarves, halflings, and gnomes to a 30ft move speed. Honestly I'd be curious to see how these would play out with 2024 rules if you start handing out weapon masteries to monster stat blocks that use weapons like scouts or soldiers. Also would probably be advisable to give dwarves a ranged option other than a hand axe. In fact that'd be perfect give the elves weapon mastery for their bows and dwarves weapon mastery for their melee weapons. Dwarves have to close the range to use the weapons they're best with (but still have a ranged option) and elves have mastery with their ranged weapons but are less effective in melee.
Why did the elves had multiattacks, but the dwarves did not? Also, the dwarves were completely disadvantaged, they can't run fast enough and were further from the stairs. Furthermore, even if they had decipher the sign on the first round, they would have started further from the goddess statue compared to the elves who were closer when taking the stairs. The fight wasn't done fair either, running toward their enemies with no cover wasn't tactically sound. I know dwarves are typically strongminded, but they are still intelligent and bright creatures. I usually really enjoy these fights, but I could not do it this time since they were doomed to fail from the beginning.
1:28 here is the dwarf soldier stat block. It's a CR 1/2. If this would have had multiattack, it would have gone up to a CR 1 due to increase offensive power.
First off I really like having an objective or some goal other than “hit thing until dead”. That being said I really think the Dwarves and Elves should get a Rematch. Quite honestly the Dwarves should have never moved to engage directly in combat. From my perspective the tactics should be First deny the Elves the stairs Second open the secret passage. So with those in mind the closest 1 or 2 Dwarves move to the stairs to deny the Elves access. Dash to get there then either attacking if an Elf tries to get close or take the dodge action to make them harder to hit by the Elves at range. The remainder of the Dwarves dash towards the passage. Once it’s open one uses it and the rest of the Dwarves move to deny the Elves. Not to foolhardily throw their lives away trying to engage in melee when they just can’t get in. That 10 feet speed difference is insurmountable when the faster in the fight can just shoot and run.
So dwarven infantry against archers, if I was the dwarven commander I'd kit my troops out with tower or kite shields and heavy crossbows. Front line gives gives 3/4 cover, while the archers fire through the infantry. Standard heavy infantry tactics. Playing the elves game by splitting up and running all over the field without mutual cover is just a recipe to be pin cushioned. Dwarven commander should shave his head and dye his mohawk orange.
This is one that could have been better designed. The dwarves would need higher AC against the elves' multi-attack for real parity. Also, the movement based objective massively favors the elves, even if it wasn't located on the same side they spawned from. From my perspective, the elves would need to stow their longbows to make active athletics checks, and letting them attack on the same turn is a bit generous.
Even though I don't believe it would have made much of a difference, the leader characters should have healing potions. Also, if there is ever a rematch of dwarves vs. elves, I'd like to see them pitted in caverns or the Underdark.
How do you guys like the longer Monster Melee video? A secondary objective, more dynamic terrain, and more tactics involved
Regarding comments about the terrain favoring the elves, keep in mind that the dwarves started close to the secret passage that really only they could open and had no danger to it. The elves had to either get blasted by thunderwaves on the stairs or attempt DC 20 climb checks with +0 Athletics. As we've seen many times, so much comes down to luck. The dwarves rolled poorly throughout most of the encounter, while the elves overall rolled good (especially on their damage rolls).
I wanna roll the dice just once
I love everything about that statement. Have death matches, have objectives. Very cool
I adore having the longer videos. The extra objective and stuff makes me even more invested with how things will play out and how it can effect the battle.
YESYESYES
Loved the longer format!
Maybe a classic 'hold back the undead until the sun rises' scenario with a paladin vs a vampire leader would be good.
OOO that is a good one
Maybe recreation of From Dusk Till Dawn but more DnD themed.
A Deva as a leader with a gaggle of civilians and an adventuring party would be literally amazing.
I would suggest, if you have one side who is both faster and has longer range, you limit the ammunition or add something to the other side so that they actually have a chance. There is no reason the elves wouldnt just permanently kite the dwarves and never worry about getting hit
Ye, or at least make it so the terrain favors the slower grp
Although I agree with this to a certain degree, I'd say it's exactly the point of these battles. Elves with range are superior to and a harder enemy than dwarves at range. Give the dwarves some throwing axes and maybe we've got a fight on our hands.
Or under new rules same speed right?
Agreed. The higher rate of fire means they burn through arrows quickly. Infinite arrows give them no reason to ever close to melee.
Well you can't permanently kite with 35 speed against 50 speed dashes, and in close area
What we need next then would be the Underdark equivalent, Duergar vs Drow!
It no contest, it would be just as one-sided as this. Drow make slaves of Duergar on the regular.
According to the statblock of an average Duergar, it could probably take on a whole band of average drow.
@@ShrimpEmporium Stats aren't everything as you can see from this example fight. The only way a Duergar can even get within melee range of a Drow is if the Drow allows it to.
@@Nekross06 Invis
@@ShrimpEmporium Faerie Fire.
I don't think the Dwarf party ever stood a chance against the Elves in an open-ground setting like that with their speed advantage and ranged attacks.
....and they divided themselves to pursue different objectives from go.
I like the idea of having an objective with this but the arena felt pretty skewed towards the elves advantages, they already have twice the speed of the dwarves and the dwarves weren’t given any real ranged abilities. If 20 minutes in one side has only made one attack I think it’s a bit off 😂
That’s how 5e is and is going more towards. New monks are uncatchable kites effectively immune to projectiles too.
Seriously skewed toward the elves. Should have been a forest so there was cover and maybe give the Dwarves heavy crossbows so they stood a chance at range. But this arena threw them out onto an open beach to face a bunch of multi-attack archers. It certainly wasn't a fair fight. Dwarves can be pretty stubborn, but I have a hard time believing they would have thrown tactics to the wind and run out into the middle of a shooting gallery.
Completely agree one Chang that would have helped quit a bit would have been having a artificer instead of fighter. Would have fit the runes better and helped make up with spells.
@@richardscanlon4210yes, the dwarves definitely needed crossbows
@@sidecharacter7165 that and 2 attacks per turn vs 1 as a massive action econemy advantage cause well 1 mis 1 hit is still damage vs no damage per turn. This is not a contest.
Normally i like Monster Melee videos but this felt painfully unfair
My immediate thought was, "Where did we find the worlds dumbest dwarves, that not one of them brought a bow, or at least a crossbow?"
Wait wait wait hold on, you mean to tell me Dwarves and Elves really do battle each other? I thought it was all just banter.
if the underdark elves and dwarves fight I think the surface ones do as well, not as common though
Its the preamble before they make out.
@@merchant3899 Oh yeah, forgot about those geeks.
Your DM decides whether the dwarves and elves are at war or not.
@@theoverpreparerlamenters3r436 Well that would explain it. For someone other than me to take a turn to be the DM I would need to have friends. :(
Yoiu should have given the dwarves crossbows instead of throwing axes.
Then again, with all the elf multi-attacks, I don't think the poor dwarves stood much of a chance anyway.
Alas for all Dwarf-kin! For the traitorous knife-ears have stolen the Sacred Cove.
Yea not sure why you would pit long range and movement vs slow and no range.
Yeah, I'd like to see in a future battle the same group of Elves being chased in a cavern by a group of similar Dwarves. Only this time, the Elves come across a dead end or a locked door and must fight their way out.
Maybe the Elves could still have 3 or 4 rounds to exploit their speed/longbow advantage before the Dwarves close in.
@@christianlangdon3766I mean, I think its fine if the terrain and objective worked with it, but neither did. If the dearves had to defend a building for example, or if one side of the map was dense with cover and the other more open, I can see it working.
I want to see a group of "survivors" that have found themselves cornered and trapped in an abandoned house as various undead surround them!
I like this a lot
That's a cool idea! The party explores a haunted mansion and then has to dice and slice their way out to escape.
Great setup overall, loved the objective and the longer video.
Esper, my suggestion is that dwarves and elves aren't necessarily restricted to bows or axes. For example, the dwarf party could have had a few crossbow dwarves and the elves could have had a couple melee warriors or some other combination. These are your monster melees, so keep it up and use my suggestion if you desire. Thanks for the video.
Thank you, glad you liked it, and thanks for the suggestions!
That toxic elf guy didn't sound like chaotic good at all)
And stabbing a unconscious foe to death feels pretty evil
@@simoneriksson8329 That's just standard practice in warfare. They're warriors, not modern police. The reality of war is that mercy to your enemies is often cruelty to your comrades. Especially when it's a vindictive, habitually seething dwarf.
These are really fun. Whether or not this specific one gets a rematch, these really are neat to watch.
But I have to agree that the Dwarves made some mistakes. They won't have perfect knowledge of the situation, but if these are soldiers who know something of what they are up against (and just what elves with bows can do to their precious internal organs doesn't come as a nasty shock), they know the danger they are in. They need to decide, right at the start, if they are focusing on the objective, or on the threat.
If they are focused on the objective, they should have all gone for the secret door. If they are focused on the threat, they should have all charged. The elves can afford to have one or two scout out the way to the goal while the rest shoot, since they have range and speed. They're hardly even splitting their force with that bow range. The Dwarves really can't afford to be indecisive or split.
Can the Dwarves tell that there's some sort of passage there that might lead them to their goal, and not just a clue that might just point them in a new direction? Then it would make sense for all of them go there. Then the could all try and figure it out, or at least have some work at it while others cover them. Once they did that, they'd be able to get up on the rocks and rush for the objective, or just have the high ground to throw from. A single elf would *probably* still beat them to the goal, but the elves as a whole would have a real struggle getting all of them up there to fight them. Really, once the elves see and KNOW the passage leads up to the high ground, they might be forced to race for the passage and follow the Dwarves (potentially getting hit with axes, or even getting in a close quarter fight with Dwarves left behind to guard the passage, since that MIGHT be one place where splitting up makes sense for them), instead of taking the more chancy routes.
They could have also opted to simply charge. They might not have a top-down perfectly knowledge of the scenario, but they can still realize that they can't possibly beat the Elves in a race, whatever it involves. That's still probably a losing scenario, and the single elf that managed to get to the boon might wipe them all out even if they beat the ones on the ground, but they MIGHT have managed to pin the elves against the water or against the cliff and gotten some licks in.
I think it would be interesting to see two rival gangs of monster hunters fighting each other *and a monster, both parties trying to claim the nonster's head as a trophy.
“THIS IS GOING IN THE BOOK!” *Angry grumbling note taking*
See now it's that vindictive dwarfish nature why the only sensible policy when fighting dwarves is to show no mercy and leave no survivors. You cannot leave a single one alive to tell the tale or else.
I think for those soldiers I would look back to 3e (as so often I do) because all the core races were featured in the Monster Manual alongside a statement something like "Most ___ encountered outside their homes are warriors. The stat block is for a warrior of 1st level."
Pretty awesome! Love the characterizations and the foley/voices. Went as I expected it would once you described their stat blocks.
It is easy for viewers to say this or that about advantages and disadvantages after seeing the results, instead of predicting ahead of time. In any case I think the map and lore was very cool. Your voice acting and sound effects is also always a lot of fun too.
Agreed, and I actually thought the dwarves means to get to the shrine was much easier than the elves before watching the fight. A lot of hindsight merchants in the comments.
I said when I saw the battleground the dwarves didn't have a shot....
@@intoxicatedmasculinity ok here is a gold star ⭐️ well done
So besides the extra movement speed, what really made this fight unfair is the fact that the elf scouts had multiattack and the dwarf warriors did not. Every elf was thus getting two attacks per round while the dwarves, even when they got into melee, got one. There is no way they could have out damaged the elves.
~~ SPOILERS ~~
Dwarves were fighting at a massive disadvantage being stuck in the open here. Weirdly I think if the positions were switched it would have been a lot more interesting. Dwarves stubbornly trying to ascend the thunderwave steps while the elves either open the secret passage or try and pick off the dwarves before they reach the shrine. It gives those tree loving salad eaters a reason to do more than just kite and shoot. In any case, the dwarves tried their best. ROCK AND STONE!
Going into my pre-fight prediction! With the slow speed of the dwarves, limited ranged options, and the fact that they start a whole football field away, I predict that the Dwarves are going to get absolutely shredded without killing a single Elf. Let's see how the extra objective comes into play! I think the extra speed and the ranged options of the elves will simply make it even more favored for the elves with getting to the idol first.
Excited to see how it plays out nonetheless!
I’m with you. Prefight call. Stersanil needs to hightail it to that objective get that boon. In fact all of the scouts need to use their speed and get up on that outcropping. When the dwarves get close disengage then all dive into the water after Sternsanil has the boon. From there swim south, hit the beach and wait for the dwarves to come and nail em with a tidal wave. Now…let me get punched in the face and go to plan B.
Oh no. I just got the magical effects of the stairs. I just got punched in the face.
They managed to slay one but pretty spot on otherwise.
@@joydjinn8692 Funny enough, even his death was a little bit of a mistake by Esper, which isn't a big deal. Thragdolan had already used his reaction for Parry. The Elf Scout could have run 35 feet away without fear of an attack of opportunity! Giving the Dwarves a pity kill is a kindness I suppose 😅
@@ElfieElfieElf Yeah, with this big of an open area against foe with 10ft more movement speed and longbows. It was pretty doomed from the start. Maybe it would have been a closer fight if he would have committed to one strategies with his whole crew (either all of them take the hidden pathway or they all rushed the Elves on the beach). The Elves would've still won though.
The Voice lines of the soldiers during Combat make me think back to "Warcraft 3" voice lines, nice job!
I love these monster melees. They are very fun! With that frontloaded into my comment for clarity's sake, the rest of my comment:
The tactics of the Dwarves weren't very coordinated. It did not seem like the Dwarves had a good plan of action for what to do as a team. Perhaps next time Dwarves fight, they can have a clear objective that they stick to. Even if the thing they decide to do is the wrong thing, at least they'd be doing the wrong thing *together*, which improves their odds of accomplishing something of worth.
Loved how you used the terrain and added elements to it like the shrine! Looking forward to more of these.
On an unrelated note, I've been playing a dragon from Monstrous Heroes in a game, and loving being able to be an actual dragon!
These Dwarven fighters knew zero tactics. They attack like a bunch of mindless orcs.
I like the longer formats, these battles are so cool and it's nice to see full battles
Rematch!! However swap the starting positions. Dwarves closer to the map objective would pull the elves into them and negate "some" of their range and speed advantages.
Side note* I also enjoy the matches where there are named heroes. I find myself rooting for the named characters, hoping they survive and return to future battles with some elements of character progression (such as the Elmar and wolves).
Keep up the good work!!!
Not sure what the game mechanics permit, but I'd have figured setting up a shieldwall. Let those arrows bounce off until the passage was opened, then move in either let the Elves trap themselves by trying to make for the statue first or block off the stairways. With the Elves likely taking the blessing first regardless it'd still have been a tough fight, but more so to the Dwarves' favor.
I love how you've named and personalized the battles. I like the idea of carrying over winners. Good work.
What a miss-match. Map should have been small and forced elves into melee. They still have an advantage with multi-attack. Rematch for the dwarf fans!!
A fight you could do is take a few humanoid stat blocks and put them up against a cyclops in a reenactment of Odysseus and his men fighting the Cyclops. A new iteration but higher level of guards maybe with a mixed team of guards, veterans and gladiator. Maybe even a bandit or bandit captain.
I stay on alert for when Monster Melee graces my youtube feed. This is the good stuff right here.
I was hoping they’d stabilize Thangdolon and capture him. That’s just me.
What do you imagine? They are just lawful good....😂
@@maximusinvictus8802 I forget who was what. I think one side was LG and the other was CG. Didn’t even consider alignment when that popped into me head. Just thought capturing a “leader” is a nice prize. I mean those named guys get death saves for a reason…maybe we use them every so often…it could create a follow up encounter. I love these since I haven’t played in years. Looking forward to the next.
The dwarves could have been given crossbows, otherwise the map just makes it impossible for this to be a fair fight. Dwarves are defensive fighters, so I don’t understand why they would just run out through the open with no chance of even reaching the enemy.
Monster Melee is super enjoyable thanks a lot for this Esper!
If you have some time and think this is interesting, It would be nice to see a wild magic sorcerer village attacked by red wizards of Thay!
I remember in the BG1, BG2 games there was a plot thread that the red wizards thought the wild magic users where dangerous and had to be eliminated! There could be extra objectives like protect the village from distraction from the wild magic sorcerer side or capture a few wild magic users alive to study from the red wizards side.
Hail good Bard! Love these longer and larger Monster Melee battles. Great work Sir. Very good video and a lot of fun to watch. reminds me how much I miss playing D&D and wish I could find a good game. These videos all show the Randomness of the game based on Dice rolls!
If I may make another suggestion, I'd love to see Tiamat do battle. Maybe Tiamat vs Lloth?
Lol it's not quite theme, but Tiamat vs the leveled up group from the old d&d cartoon would also be a hoot
I love all the Monster Melees. I didn't know that I needed this in my life. My only thought would be perhaps to have 2 DM's battle it out; one on either side of the battle. You both agree on the terrain, the rules, & the two combatants and then randomly assign which side of the combat you are on. Just a thought.
lmao...Last dwarf standing makes a run for it, slips on rocks, falls to his death. Instant karma. Also instant sub from me. Really fun video! Thanks for making it!
I’ve been going over the “soldiers” in my campaign. I find the stat blocks are poorly put together, and the Dwarves kind of show that in this fight. The dwarves have slow speed and they have only one short range thrown weapon. When I look at real world soldiers and special forces, they try and mitigate their weaknesses and take advantage of their strengths. So, I have been taking time to build them in such a way that they are effective for their challenge rating.
I enjoyed it as a change of pace but I prefer the shorter battles. Also, I think the elves should have captured the fallen dwarf leader and handed him back to his clan if the dwarves promised to give up their claim to the sanctuary. Pretty brutal the way they ended him.
I would love a "running battle" type of fight. Like say there are some Wood Elf or Satyr or some other creature that is faster then the standard 30' and they have to make it to the safety of the fort walls. Along the way is just hordes of zomberts and skelltrons trying to kill them. Maybe throw in someone that can Turn Undead but only like once. It would be impossible to kill all the undead so they have to run for safety.
Deva vs Horned Devil
This is a lot of fun. I think the dwarves would adopt better battle tactics for situations like this. Splitting the platoon and running everywhere was not the best option.
I really love the addition of a bonus objective that uses the terrain
Match up idea: a group of knights/guards trying to stop a slaad invasion. Pair them up against a decently strong slaad for a David vs Goliath fight
I find these really fun when it’s a story involved - great stuff! The voices are great too 😆
EDIT:
This is my personal opinion - a lot of people in the comments seem to be talking about the tactics and I get it, but for me it’s helping to understand the stat blocks better and how I might use it in my own games. I got to see weaknesses here that maybe I could plan for in my own games! I liked the story of the statue and I’m totally stealing these names 🍻 great video Esper!
I'd say, since elf was a ranger. We could do a dwarves cleric hero to just balance this encounter rather than making it a fighter. Since we know that dwarves are also religious and their leader could compliment their tough nature. At the end, the terrain was nice to balance this open ground, them not being able to decipher runes was a misfortune, but kinda expected as this is a dice game and elves were better at climbing/ walking down those wards. On the other hand elves, not being wood elves but high elves could balance the speed problem could help but their proficiency as high elves could hurt dwarves but on the other hand dwarves could be hill dwarves... that wouldn't help with the deciphering but could help the cleric idea a bit more. Or mountain dwarves to dish out a bit more damage.
Also dwarves are well known craftsman, maybe firearms or crossbows could stabilize a bit better this situation but eh... fair is fair. When I saw this, although I liked dwarves a bit more than elves, I admitted that elves would win, especially wood elves being faster was no big contest. Even when they missed so many attacks at the beginning.
I like the idea of this one a lot, but I think the fight played to the strength's of the elves (reaching a point). If this would've been the dwarves trying to fortify a stronghold it would've been very different
It's great! Making up scenarios in specialized environments is realistic to a dnd encounter.
Great video! I like the longer form because you can listen to it in the background.
great job-played the elves perfectly --how about a rematch that favors the dwarves. . Terrain, ambush. dwarf barrle ragers?
Love the voice acting keep up the great work, i fear when you do the Gnolls! lol
We should definitely do, a wizard, 2 Halfling rouges, Human fighter, dwarf fighter, Human Ranger and Elf ranger/ fighter ( archer) vs a Balor!!
a bit more serious one is I wanted to see all the hag covens fight each other but night hag coven are a bit higher CR with the other two, but if you’re making stats maybe you can modify them to make it more fair? If you want to of course.
as always I enjoy watching these and I enjoy the story you read recently
Long time DM here, 30+ years. Yes, I like the longer format, if it enable you to really dig into the combat. Good stuff, thanks for posting. This battle was a bit one-side toward the Elves advantage, but realistically, the Elves might have spotted them at a distance and waited behind cover for a surprise round. Still did not play to dwarf advantages, perhaps a drow elf raid on an Underdark sentry post or something like that might have given the dwarves a better chance?
I really liked the more long form and dynamic movement around the battle field.
This was terrific!!! I would make one recommendation: give viable ranged options to both sides. A longbow vs. a thrown handaxe, coupled with the elves' far superior speed, made this fight very unbalanced in favor of the elves. The dwarves never had a chance. Maybe the dwarves could've had light crossbows, or slings, or something with more range than handaxes. I'd recommend trying to do this for most monster melee battles; otherwise, in most cases, the side with no good ranged attack is quite clearly more likely to lose.
Some balance is good, but not too much. In the end, I don't want all the competitors to be the same. The dwarves had much better AC and HP, the elves had better mobility and ranged capabilities.
@@esperthebard I hear that. It shouldn't be about engineering a perfectly balanced fight - and despite its uneven matchup, this fight was a great illustration of the general superiority of ranged and speed. My favorite battles tend to be the very close ones - where both sides have a chance, an option, a tactic that could turn the tide. All that said - I really love these videos, keep them coming!!!
I think elves having 2 attacks is a bit OP. Perhaps they have 1 attack per round like the dwarves
@@thedog_12 Both the elf scouts and dwarf soldiers are CR 1/2 creatures. They are built with the 5e guidelines. If the elves were to only have 1 attack, their CR would slip down to 1/4 or 1/8, due to the lowered offense.
A capture the flag scenario! Very cool! I wondered if/how you would implement it. Anyway, I think an underground fight between underground groups could be interesting, kuo toa, troglodytes, grimlocks, drow or other.
Ah a old classic.
Loved the secondary objective with lore. I think people are upset it wasnt closer, but thats part of monster meele. Elves just seem to be naturally stronger if they fought because range is very powerful when the opponent is slow. That being said, I agree the specifics of this fight favored the elves MORE than it did the dwarves. I think a more balanced combat with lore could have been that the dwarves started up AT the monument as the meele and had already captured it. The elves show up to reclaim what was theirs. The dwarves are able to use the statue and it will provide blessings too great for the elves to fight if it goes off. The elves could start on top of the mountain as well but where the sigil led. Elves objective is to kill all dawrves BEFORE they can activate the monument. This takes 2 rounds with no elves within 30 ft of the monument interfering. Dwarves goal is to kill all elves or DEFEND the monument till it activates. 1 dwarf has to use his turn each round to maintain activation attempt. This would allow elves to use their range, but FORCE A level of melee interaction by the elves to prevent objective based loss and avoid an infinite kite strategy. If you read this and like the idea feel free to use it and I would LOVE to watch :)
Easy fix to balance would be to homebrew a "shield wall" ability for the dwarves. If they are grouped together in 3 or more ranged attacks from the front have disadvantage against them or something . This would favour dwarves defensive tactics and force the elves to use their mobility to get around the dwarves to try to engage
As a certified knife ear hater, I ain't gonna lie, this monster melee had me seething lol. My poor bearded short kings, thier small legs and lack of crossbows really set them up bad in this match up. By Moradin's mighty beard the dwarves must get thier vengeance on those damned elves!
I think that the dwarves should have dodged and advanced slowly on the battlefield, rushing in to attack only when sufficiently close to the elves. They didn't actively use their armour as much as the elves used their range.
It seems bizarre to me that the dwarves wouldn't come equipped with crossbows. The dwarf lord also sent them here without rations for the return trip, too. He knew that they wouldn't be coming home. The outcome of this battle was pre-ordained.
Okay, that was awesome.
Please do Shifters vs Changelings or Lolth vs Umberlee
I say the secondary objectives are a good addition, makes things more interesting rather then just a simple battle.
I don't mind the longer time, enjoy it either way.
And the diffrent types of terrain and areas are always fun to add for any dnd fight.
41 minutes of monster melee??? Holy, this is the best news of the day :)
This is the biggest one yet. Let's see how people like the longer format.
@@esperthebard It was truly epic! Thankyou for all the hard work you put into these
Well the first 8:55 of it was just lore. And I gave it my best effort to pay attention to every last word of it. So here I am an hour and a half later.
Great video!
Suggest: Kaiju battle, Tarrasque vs. Tiamat battling in a DnD city setting. During their battle, the city's military (catapults, archers, etc) are trying to stop them. Good old 1950s giant monster movie battle, but in a DnD setting.🤓👍🏻
Posting this before watching the video.
NOW WE ARE TALKING BRUDAAAAA
I cannot wait to see the result of this
Hydra vs Treant.
I love how there is an objective.
The battle would have been a lot closer if the dwarves had been able to flank and get within melee range. The elves won because their tactics were more favorable for the environment. In an underground tunnel where the dwarves could easily form shield walls and utilize cover, i think it would have been a lot closer. Speaks to home court advantage. But war isnt fair and the dwaves may not have been expecting to meet their elven enemies at the cove. Lets not forget too that the elves just rolled a lot better and landed significantly more blows due to their multi shot. Excellent battle overall!! Looking forward to seeing more drawn-out battles between intelligent humanoids
Best background music on UA-cam
Classic showdown. Was hoping to see longbow vs crossbow volleys to open, followed by scimitars and axes to finish. But I'll take whatever you toss out there. The dwarves were definitely 'outgunned' in the battle.
Very cool Melee. No probs with terrain...maybe a rematch In a more Dwarf advantaged scenario. Would also love to see adventure parties battling eachother
As others said, this was really good, but Dwarves were at a huge disadvantages, at least give them heavy crossbows. Another thing you could do is give them "Shield Wall" formation, since each overlapping shield gives cover (I would say 3/4 cover). That would slow down the Dwarves, BUT would may them neigh impossible to hit. Allowing them time to get there. Imagine this. They each have 25 movement tops, but can take dodge actions, this would give them 21 AC + Disadvantage to hit. I think that would be great representation of Dwarves style of combat. They are the rock that all enemies crash against, while Elves are the wind that crashes enemies in front o f them.
"It takes more den dat to fell a dwarf! Aye, I'll schnap yer neck like a twig!"
I LOVE that everyone's moving more through the battle. My favorite battles are the ones where the environment is just as important as its combatants.
I would be super excited for a rematch, but consider placing the secret passage closer to the shrine. Even though both an elf and a dwarf both made it to the top, the slower of the two starts farther away from the divine boon. And both ways to the top required some kind of check anyway. Given the elves' higher mobility, they really were just one successful spell save away from clinching this battle from the get go. Also, you said the runic script was in dwarven. Why not give advantage to the dwarves' skill checks to decipher the script? They are dwarves, after all. Just a suggestion.
Loved this one! What about a skull lord vs a vampire warrior? Two cr 15 undead power houses duking it out?
spoiler
i liked alot the map design and alternate objectives, the shrine was also well balanced as it gave an extra boost without being overpowered, i personally would have attempted to rush shrine with the dwarf leader and bait the elves into meele combat but bad rolls would be a disaster for this strategy if they kept falling and ruin my plan most likely considering my luck lol... the elf speed and range proved lethal, i dont think you should rematch but instead send in some pissed off dwarven reinforcements with slings and throwing axes and then bless the first elf (initiative wise) with the shrine effect, thank you esper for the video it was very fun to watch as always love your work
Fun video! I feel like you may have done the Dwarves a disservice. They know better than to try to rush into battle with a swifter enemy who attacks at range. Dwarves are natural counter-punchers who can take hits and hit back harder. If you do a rematch, and I hope you do, please have the Dwarves move as a tight group, and end each move with a dodge to represent them using their tactics to draw the enemy closer and they slowly, but inexorably, advance on their objective. They also understand the need for cover against elves. I think they could back the elves into the sea and slaughter them in melee, if they did it right and had a bit of luck on their side.
I think so too. Leader should just send one guy to decipher and go on the slow offensive on the elves. Squeezing them and then rushing together at the right moment. Also shield formation should be a thing I guess, because you're using the shield of your guy as a cover, prbably should give +1 AC or something I don't know.
I still wanna see either the avatars or champions of Lolth vs Elistraee to finally prove who is the better goddess.
That's what happens when you bring an axe to a bow fight...
I guess the dwarves chopped down too many trees (I only discovered Dwarf Fortress last month)
And this is why the 2024 handbook boosts dwarves, halflings, and gnomes to a 30ft move speed. Honestly I'd be curious to see how these would play out with 2024 rules if you start handing out weapon masteries to monster stat blocks that use weapons like scouts or soldiers. Also would probably be advisable to give dwarves a ranged option other than a hand axe. In fact that'd be perfect give the elves weapon mastery for their bows and dwarves weapon mastery for their melee weapons. Dwarves have to close the range to use the weapons they're best with (but still have a ranged option) and elves have mastery with their ranged weapons but are less effective in melee.
Why did the elves had multiattacks, but the dwarves did not? Also, the dwarves were completely disadvantaged, they can't run fast enough and were further from the stairs. Furthermore, even if they had decipher the sign on the first round, they would have started further from the goddess statue compared to the elves who were closer when taking the stairs.
The fight wasn't done fair either, running toward their enemies with no cover wasn't tactically sound. I know dwarves are typically strongminded, but they are still intelligent and bright creatures.
I usually really enjoy these fights, but I could not do it this time since they were doomed to fail from the beginning.
1:28 here is the dwarf soldier stat block. It's a CR 1/2. If this would have had multiattack, it would have gone up to a CR 1 due to increase offensive power.
Thanks for the vid sir.👍🏼👍🏼
Really shows the power of range and mobility
I love these vids keep them coming please
Bouncing my next suggestion off of this prompt
Orcs VS Elves
That would be more balanced
I love this series!
Against my regular nature, I was rooting for the dwarves on this one. Shame. Rest in peace, ye beautiful bearded bastards!
First off I really like having an objective or some goal other than “hit thing until dead”.
That being said I really think the Dwarves and Elves should get a Rematch. Quite honestly the Dwarves should have never moved to engage directly in combat. From my perspective the tactics should be
First deny the Elves the stairs
Second open the secret passage.
So with those in mind the closest 1 or 2 Dwarves move to the stairs to deny the Elves access. Dash to get there then either attacking if an Elf tries to get close or take the dodge action to make them harder to hit by the Elves at range. The remainder of the Dwarves dash towards the passage. Once it’s open one uses it and the rest of the Dwarves move to deny the Elves.
Not to foolhardily throw their lives away trying to engage in melee when they just can’t get in. That 10 feet speed difference is insurmountable when the faster in the fight can just shoot and run.
Elves pulled out their barbed arrows for this one.
So dwarven infantry against archers, if I was the dwarven commander I'd kit my troops out with tower or kite shields and heavy crossbows. Front line gives gives 3/4 cover, while the archers fire through the infantry. Standard heavy infantry tactics. Playing the elves game by splitting up and running all over the field without mutual cover is just a recipe to be pin cushioned. Dwarven commander should shave his head and dye his mohawk orange.
Gnomes Vs. Halflings! Goliaths Vs. Bugbears!! DRAGONBORN VS. DRACONIANS!!!
This is one that could have been better designed. The dwarves would need higher AC against the elves' multi-attack for real parity. Also, the movement based objective massively favors the elves, even if it wasn't located on the same side they spawned from. From my perspective, the elves would need to stow their longbows to make active athletics checks, and letting them attack on the same turn is a bit generous.
Could you re-run it in a different location that’s not so slanted in the elves’ favor?
Elf and dwarf realms join forces to repel an orc invasion
This is a suggestion for a different scenario of Monster Melee.
Even though I don't believe it would have made much of a difference, the leader characters should have healing potions. Also, if there is ever a rematch of dwarves vs. elves, I'd like to see them pitted in caverns or the Underdark.
Oh hell yea a rivalry as old as time ❤