Just tested this a few times. Having the gates facing the same side with matching opening direction, it's very possible to open the gate of the second biner with the tag/hand section of the main line (while it's unloaded during upward movement)and have it clip into the second biner... essentially just having a double loop around both biners, causing the hitch to fail. Opposing gates with an "x" pattern when they open prevents this from occurring and greatly increases the safety of the system, especially if it's being used as a backup fall arrest system via the best friend. Excellent ascension system if that step is done though.
@garlandmcnew4282 As you are likely aware, I didn't invent the Garda Hitch, I improved it. Carabiner shapes vary greatly and I don't believe that what you're proposing would hold on non oval carabiners. They need to line up with each other when using D and Pear shapes. I would also like to see a video of how you got the gate to open. I have executed thousands of tests and climbs and am not aware of how that would be possible.
To avoid any interaction of the hitch with the gates you can have the opposing gate openings at the bottom of the system by rotating the biners after clipping into the main line (e.g. atrier end)
@garlandmcnew4282 I understand what you're describing, but doing so requires the Bull Hitch Variation to be looosened and by default, it is clamped very tight. Looosenig it is not practical and could introduce other issues. Please don't guess. If you can demonstrate a realistic scenario where the gates could open in normal use, please share the video and details with us. You said you tested it. What test failed?
@@jrbtc 100% correct on the non-ovals, opposing gates with ovals is the use case I'm referring to, which it looked like you were using here, as was I. Yup, you're right, having that tight hitch for the step makes it tough to separate the opposing biner enough at the bottom (good point), the opposing gate openings oriented toward the top (with an x) still allows for the opposing openings, and ability to easily clip in into the main line. I have those exact ovals, so that's what I'm using to compare here. It's not that the system failed while using it in the field, it has a potential for failure that can be easily mitigated. It can just be improved for safety using a pretty standard technique for doubling ovals. The hitch works great for ascension. the issue is the ability unclip the second biner with the tag end when the setup is lightly loaded allowing the tag end to slip between the two biners towards the gate and thus open it with a pull.
Good idea for an improved footloop, did a practice climb and adjusted mine to best length, ground to belt high. Also played with the agile hitch on double stationary rope climb, seems that the agile hitch with 4 or 5 wraps is hard to break, but 3 main wraps and then the extra half wrap at the bottom, ascends nice and not so hard to break on rappel, but the 5-2-3 jrb compact with a ring is still my preference. Oh , this was on resc rech 8 mm and 6 mm Sterling accessory cord
You could. I have tested it and it works. This option had slightly better performance. And I don't see a reason why an able bodied person needs the MA. ua-cam.com/video/6tTmMyZz9MM/v-deo.htmlsi=F0z4b4Vbwf5cx0Kk
have you ever tried not putting the loop on the carabiners but just connecting your second bridge carabiner directly to the carbiners on the garda hitch?
Good question. I can't recommend that. Without the load being put on the clove hitch, we are relying on the uploaded webbing to keep those biners stable, and that is not guaranteed and could destabilize.
@@jrbtc is the clove hitch from the "Best Friend" loop a critical component to the operation of the Garda Hitch? I guess so, based on your response above. I didn't realize that.
@paulcrave3826 I didn't invent the Garda Hitch. I discovered it through research and learned that it's known for being unreliable and not holding if the carabiners don't remain properly aligned. I then built and tested many variations before finding one that was consistently reliable both as a footloop and a backup, and this is that design and it uses a clove hitch for the cord. Sure, it might hold without the clove but it might not. We need our backup to be reliable.
Hi John, Speaking of the geometry, what adjustments could be made to enable a deeper step, I would like my foot to be quite high. I am a rock climber same height as yourself and i have very good strength and stability from such positions. Having a longer step would also cover more distance per step which i like the idea of
Jay, we can get a bigger step, but it's important to ensure that if for whatever reason, your friction hitches didn't hold and you found yourself on your best friend and garda, that you can load your garda AND recover. Let's say I want 6 more inches of step: 1. Shorter friction hitches with a longer main bridge will give me more room to work the Garda. The BF loop or lower bridge might need to be slightly longer to allow me to pull the garda up higher. 2. Can also make the Garda a few inches shorter... but if it's too short, we won't be able to load it. Pls watch this video as well. ua-cam.com/video/3KI1lvyk3ds/v-deo.htmlsi=HQIP3ZSaoCYw_Aj6
It provides a second and independent point of connection to our saddle via the the lower short bridge. It ensures that even if there was a total failure of our primary friction hitch we would not fall. And we would be in a position where we can repair and self recover. Watch this sixty second video to see it in action. ua-cam.com/users/shorts4vZWCDcNYCY?si=JO7mEgB-cnvbzmqF
@@jrbtc fascinating to watch a family of red tails as they raise their young, I have had red tails nest in tall pines near my home, and watched as the juveniles learned to fly,
John, I jumped ahead when I saw the double footloop version, made a single loop one myself, before you did this...and came up with a different solution. A single large footloop (I used a figure 8 on a bight), then up the webbing several feet I tied the bull variant. I then used the remaining "tail" from the bull hitch, tied a small figure 8 loop at the end of it, for use as my "best friend". Do you see any issues there? Uses significantly less webbing than your variant, but I'm not seeing the con side of it.
I would need to see it to be certain but it sounds fine... the only thing which is a MUST is the bull hitch variant and it must have the load distributed on BOTH strands exiting it. This ensures that the carabiners are squeezed evenly and therefore won't jockey out of position. If you're in my Facebook group, post a photo!
does this work if you don't use webbing.... i.e. with paracord (for the foot loop not "best friend")? same "bull hitch" or what would be best? been obsessed with your channel to gear up for hunting! thx!
I can't recommend anything but one inch webbing, as the one inch distribution of force keeps the carabiners aligned. Definitely not paracord, it's too weak and stretchy. Sure, its likely that if ya tied both loops with a clove hitch and both with 7mm or larger cord, it's likely to usually hold... and that might be acceptable for a footloop which itself is not a life safety device... but we need the Garda to function as a life safety backup via the "best friend " loop. And so unless you accept the responsibility to test it, i would not use it. Testing takes a long time... how do we know it won't fail one a million times if we don't test a million times...
@@jrbtc thanks so much for the response! I am newb and I am glad I asked. Been practicing in my basement lots... so learning process will only cause minor pain but no permanent damage (other than maybe the ego : ). When climbing a tree, I am always going to back up my hitches with an auto-locking belay device (at least for the first few seasons.) Really appresh your knots R&D, testing and then sharing with us!
@@ITPCD thanks and know that I am happy to help if in no other way than to provoke thought. In fact, about an hour ago, i released a new video on ladder stand safety scenario... and i rarely climb a ladder stand any more.
Another creative refinement with enhanced functionality. The DWH idea is unique from what i've seen in other foot loops. Thank you.
Excellent
Just tested this a few times. Having the gates facing the same side with matching opening direction, it's very possible to open the gate of the second biner with the tag/hand section of the main line (while it's unloaded during upward movement)and have it clip into the second biner... essentially just having a double loop around both biners, causing the hitch to fail. Opposing gates with an "x" pattern when they open prevents this from occurring and greatly increases the safety of the system, especially if it's being used as a backup fall arrest system via the best friend. Excellent ascension system if that step is done though.
@garlandmcnew4282 As you are likely aware, I didn't invent the Garda Hitch, I improved it. Carabiner shapes vary greatly and I don't believe that what you're proposing would hold on non oval carabiners. They need to line up with each other when using D and Pear shapes. I would also like to see a video of how you got the gate to open. I have executed thousands of tests and climbs and am not aware of how that would be possible.
To avoid any interaction of the hitch with the gates you can have the opposing gate openings at the bottom of the system by rotating the biners after clipping into the main line (e.g. atrier end)
@garlandmcnew4282 I understand what you're describing, but doing so requires the Bull Hitch Variation to be looosened and by default, it is clamped very tight. Looosenig it is not practical and could introduce other issues. Please don't guess. If you can demonstrate a realistic scenario where the gates could open in normal use, please share the video and details with us. You said you tested it. What test failed?
@@jrbtc 100% correct on the non-ovals, opposing gates with ovals is the use case I'm referring to, which it looked like you were using here, as was I. Yup, you're right, having that tight hitch for the step makes it tough to separate the opposing biner enough at the bottom (good point), the opposing gate openings oriented toward the top (with an x) still allows for the opposing openings, and ability to easily clip in into the main line. I have those exact ovals, so that's what I'm using to compare here. It's not that the system failed while using it in the field, it has a potential for failure that can be easily mitigated. It can just be improved for safety using a pretty standard technique for doubling ovals. The hitch works great for ascension. the issue is the ability unclip the second biner with the tag end when the setup is lightly loaded allowing the tag end to slip between the two biners towards the gate and thus open it with a pull.
And to be clear, I've tested it on a gym bar and am able to unclip as stated above. Not theoretical/guessing there.
Good idea for an improved footloop, did a practice climb and adjusted mine to best length, ground to belt high. Also played with the agile hitch on double stationary rope climb, seems that the agile hitch with 4 or 5 wraps is hard to break, but 3 main wraps and then the extra half wrap at the bottom, ascends nice and not so hard to break on rappel, but the 5-2-3 jrb compact with a ring is still my preference. Oh , this was on resc rech 8 mm and 6 mm Sterling accessory cord
The Agile Hitch works best with a handle... not only for operation but it makes it easier to break.
Is there any reason why I couldn’t use a hand ascender with a pulley above the Compact JRBAscender in hitch climbing to gain mechanical advantage?
You could. I have tested it and it works. This option had slightly better performance. And I don't see a reason why an able bodied person needs the MA.
ua-cam.com/video/6tTmMyZz9MM/v-deo.htmlsi=F0z4b4Vbwf5cx0Kk
have you ever tried not putting the loop on the carabiners but just connecting your second bridge carabiner directly to the carbiners on the garda hitch?
Good question. I can't recommend that. Without the load being put on the clove hitch, we are relying on the uploaded webbing to keep those biners stable, and that is not guaranteed and could destabilize.
@@jrbtc is the clove hitch from the "Best Friend" loop a critical component to the operation of the Garda Hitch? I guess so, based on your response above. I didn't realize that.
@paulcrave3826 I didn't invent the Garda Hitch. I discovered it through research and learned that it's known for being unreliable and not holding if the carabiners don't remain properly aligned. I then built and tested many variations before finding one that was consistently reliable both as a footloop and a backup, and this is that design and it uses a clove hitch for the cord. Sure, it might hold without the clove but it might not. We need our backup to be reliable.
@@jrbtc got ya. Thanks.
Hi John,
Speaking of the geometry, what adjustments could be made to enable a deeper step, I would like my foot to be quite high. I am a rock climber same height as yourself and i have very good strength and stability from such positions. Having a longer step would also cover more distance per step which i like the idea of
Jay, we can get a bigger step, but it's important to ensure that if for whatever reason, your friction hitches didn't hold and you found yourself on your best friend and garda, that you can load your garda AND recover. Let's say I want 6 more inches of step:
1. Shorter friction hitches with a longer main bridge will give me more room to work the Garda. The BF loop or lower bridge might need to be slightly longer to allow me to pull the garda up higher.
2. Can also make the Garda a few inches shorter... but if it's too short, we won't be able to load it.
Pls watch this video as well.
ua-cam.com/video/3KI1lvyk3ds/v-deo.htmlsi=HQIP3ZSaoCYw_Aj6
What does the best friend actually do? You are connected to the rope with an ascending hitch, is it just a backup?
It provides a second and independent point of connection to our saddle via the the lower short bridge. It ensures that even if there was a total failure of our primary friction hitch we would not fall. And we would be in a position where we can repair and self recover. Watch this sixty second video to see it in action.
ua-cam.com/users/shorts4vZWCDcNYCY?si=JO7mEgB-cnvbzmqF
Is that an Eagle or maybe a Red Tail Hawk screaming in the background?
Juvenile Red Tails have recently left the nest. They return to the same white pine nest site every year.
@@jrbtc fascinating to watch a family of red tails as they raise their young, I have had red tails nest in tall pines near my home, and watched as the juveniles learned to fly,
John, I jumped ahead when I saw the double footloop version, made a single loop one myself, before you did this...and came up with a different solution. A single large footloop (I used a figure 8 on a bight), then up the webbing several feet I tied the bull variant. I then used the remaining "tail" from the bull hitch, tied a small figure 8 loop at the end of it, for use as my "best friend". Do you see any issues there? Uses significantly less webbing than your variant, but I'm not seeing the con side of it.
I would need to see it to be certain but it sounds fine... the only thing which is a MUST is the bull hitch variant and it must have the load distributed on BOTH strands exiting it. This ensures that the carabiners are squeezed evenly and therefore won't jockey out of position. If you're in my Facebook group, post a photo!
@@jrbtc Excellent point! Mine does not have that feature! I'll retie!
😎👍❤
does this work if you don't use webbing.... i.e. with paracord (for the foot loop not "best friend")? same "bull hitch" or what would be best?
been obsessed with your channel to gear up for hunting! thx!
I can't recommend anything but one inch webbing, as the one inch distribution of force keeps the carabiners aligned. Definitely not paracord, it's too weak and stretchy. Sure, its likely that if ya tied both loops with a clove hitch and both with 7mm or larger cord, it's likely to usually hold... and that might be acceptable for a footloop which itself is not a life safety device... but we need the Garda to function as a life safety backup via the "best friend " loop. And so unless you accept the responsibility to test it, i would not use it. Testing takes a long time... how do we know it won't fail one a million times if we don't test a million times...
@@jrbtc thanks so much for the response! I am newb and I am glad I asked. Been practicing in my basement lots... so learning process will only cause minor pain but no permanent damage (other than maybe the ego : ). When climbing a tree, I am always going to back up my hitches with an auto-locking belay device (at least for the first few seasons.) Really appresh your knots R&D, testing and then sharing with us!
@@ITPCD thanks and know that I am happy to help if in no other way than to provoke thought. In fact, about an hour ago, i released a new video on ladder stand safety scenario... and i rarely climb a ladder stand any more.