Elon Musk - Consciousness
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- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- Elon Musk talks with Jordan B Peterson about where consciousness comes from .
Elon Musk says that consciousness had to arise from hydrogen if physics is correct about how the universe started.
"Maybe everything is conscious or nothing is conscious"
“If you leave hydrogen out in the sun long enough it starts talking to itself”😂 love it.
But you heard it also, defense mechanism for your fear. This is the method you use to fight yourself
was just going to the comments write the same thing 😂
I mean.. it does form pairs..
Elon processing no sense of god or anything larger than himself is tragic
@@momog5615 larger than himself? what the fuck are you talking about? he didn’t mention himself at all, he was talking about a possible link to hydrogen and consciousness
In the words of Max Planck, “I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.”
No, it's the other way around. Hydrogen arises out of source consciousness. All of the manifest universe does. Starts with source consciousness, manifests a world of mind and matter, and returns to source consciousness. Rinse and repeat.
What?
It offends me that you are so sure about the nature of reality as if you’re telling everyone you’re God.
”Tell that you’re God and above us all without telling me.”
It would be good if you at least could be open of how you came to that conclusion.
@@paulweiler8967Exactly!
@@aciidbraiin8079Running their train of thought. Individuality is an illusion. We’re all the same. We are the universe and exploring itself. But in order to explore itself, it must forget itself, so consciousness plugs itself into life as it arises so the brain of said life-form can start from scratch and acts as a filter similar to how shades may change the color of what you’re looking at. If you wear blue sunglasses, the ground may appear blue, but you know cause of past experience, it’s not actually blue, you’re just perceiving it that way.
Note: I don’t agree with this belief system, but it’s neat to think about.
@@Lqvy1 Very well said... What science and modern science does is to explore and understand this material world through senses... Our external adventure will always be limited to grasp entire consciousness
But Elon’s committing the logical fallacy of composition, no?
It’s like how someone could incorrectly analyse the constituents of a bird such as its tendons, bones, and feathers, and then conclude that flight must come from these constituents. But no that’s wrong.
Flight doesn’t materially come from these constituents. It’s a non-tangible materialisation of the various mechanisms and constituents of the bird working together. It’s an emergent property of these individual components working together.
So perhaps that’s what consciousness is. An emergent property of some sort. And I doubt it’s material which is what Elon’s comment is seemingly implying.
Anyway that’s just my 2 cents
To fly , for a bird, there should be Air.
what he’s saying is, hydrogen is the fundamental component. He’s saying consciousness can be traced back to hydrogen. He could go one step further and say the big bang gives rise to consciousness(in theory of course)
I think the unspoken presupposition is the distinction between the static physical objects and the dynamic emergent properties, but yeah I get what you mean.
Yeah and fruit flies spontaneously come from fruit and maggots from rotting meat. I’ll say it again, elon is not especially smart
@@coleabrahams9331 yes it’s an emergent property of electromagnetic field. We collectively produce a consciousness. Just how collectively my brain creates “me”
Wow. Getting these two guys together in the same video is like the best of Marvel crossover movies. Love 'em both! And both are brilliant!!!
I regard them to be two massive narcissists. Disgusting.
Agree, The furthest back we can go is Hydrogen.
So hydrogen gets you time? Lol
Space and time first.
What a time period to live in. With social media and such. Just imagine we had UA-cam in ancient Greece.It's equivalent to watching Plato and Aristotle discuss philosophy. Like thoughts twinkling from the stars in the mind of the cosmic computer.
😂 if you think this is like watching Plato and Aristotle, then clearly you have never read them.
To an intelligent person, this is like watching two retards try to fuck a doorknob.
This is sure a great time... we're awakening to who/what we really are...this is heaven
It probably was Timbuktu you imagine not grease. They were in caves when conversations were about this sincal upload
Actually it isn't like watching Plato and Aristotle at all
This reminds me of when you are high and having an ontological discussion with your roommate at 2am in the morning and conclude that the moon is but only a mental construct of your conscious mind and then suddenly say: "Maybe we too are but the manifestations of our thoughts turned to being man! And its like just all thoughts, like raindrops on a pond rippling all around and it's our thoughts that get woven and all add to this thing we call existence, like our reality? What if it's all just like that man?!" And you and your roommate with smug self-satisfaction go to sleep believing you have peered beneath the veil of the cosmos and recognize that thought and time and space and matter are all but one and the same! And then you wake up at 11am to say "What the f--k we're we going on about last night?!" And laugh it off.
there is still the possibility that you guys were onto something while being high... just seems like these thoughts don't help much in your day to day life that's why keep forgetting about these revelations in the daily grind. ;-)
Laughing off the Truth.
The next thought being a bread with jam
everybody got this the wrong way around !
conciousness creates gravity wich creates matter !
Everything was first a thought !
Gravity is Love.
the water molecule is the perfect dipole antenna.
Maybe everything is consciousness in some way? Then you do the double slit experiment, which proves that matter has consciousness.
How does it prove that? Prooving that someone has consciousness is, well... a pretty difficult road. Let alone proving that material has consciousness.
It is a theory without a means of proof.
only if consciousness is generated in this dimension... if consciousness is a fundamental field we exogenously entangle to it doesn't have to be chemical...
Stop talking crap and read some physics books
Just download some consciousness from the internet
@@paulweiler8967 Where does origin and nature of consciousness mentioned in physics books?
@@paulweiler8967 what a stupid comment
@qrious786 Where in the physics book ? In chapter 1 where the universe is 99.9 % hydrogen. And in chapter 2 that shows a picture of @qrious786 reading chapter 1.
How do you arrive at this conclusion from first principles?
Where the hydrogen came from Elon?
He said....if the 'theory' is correct. Elon didn't propose the theory. Hydrogen is an elemental atom, and it is therefor 'matter'. An atom is comprised of protons, neutrons, electrons, the strong nuclear force, and the weak nuclear force. Where did protons, neutrons, and electrons come from and what are the forces? Elon is merely logically progressing the theory, What is your answer to your own question?
@@acbulgin2 - Electric and magnetic forces come from the result of atoms. No one can get gravity straight other than its relation to mass.
It came from a magical boojum in the sky. We know this because ignorant, bloodthirsty Bronze Age goat herders said so.
My thoughts are about consciousness is, it's not question if everything is conscious, it how aware is it. Meaning a cluster of atoms creating a chemical reaction and now it's just a matter of how aware that cluster of atoms and chemical reactions of itself and the space around it
Your “life”is simply memories. Without them, no life. Your existence is simply physics, and laws of nature. A script / program within nature if you will. Your consciousness is Love. it is the most powerful thing within human existence as we know it.
“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth”
Consciousness is timeless
I'll never forget the communication I had with whippits, this gas was trying so hard to tell me it was conscious, I now believe all consciousness is a gas.
Consciousness emerges with increasing structural complexity: the more complex the structure, the greater the level of consciousness. For example, a single-celled organism is conscious and aware of its environment. In contrast, the human brain, being more complex, is conscious and self-aware of both itself and its surroundings. This self-awareness can further develop into an awareness of quantum fields and beyond human understanding.
Tononi?? Perhaps...
I agree.
Put simply, consciousness scales.
It is pretty easy to see an earthworm has more reactivity and awareness than a paramecium.
A salamander more than the worm.
A squirrel has more initiative, agency and perseverance than the salamander,
and an ape more than the squirrel.
I encourage folks to look into Michael Levin and scalability of consciousness here on youtube.
everything arises inside consiousness.
@@pascalromeijn8241 Consciousness needs organism. I'm a carbon-based organism. I'm glad carbon arose first, so my consciousness could arise.
@trombone7 u could look into near death experience research or master mediators who have had their brains measured during deep meditation. At moments of zero brain activity is when people have had the most broad sense of awareness, when they go back to the pure awareness that is our true nature. I have had my own near death experience hence I can say without any hesitation what my true nature is.
Reminds me of Scientist Robert Lanza's books on biocentrism. Consciousness came first is his argument. Elon should interview him.
This conversation reminded me of two things: ..."God can make stones children of Abraham"... and the book "The Great Synthesis" by Pietro Ubaldi... Jordan even used the spiral as a figure of speech to describe this upward movement.
Why wonder what consciousness is when the only way to find out is through meditation. Consciousness cannot be explained, only experienced.
Elon can say something I already know, and which I agree with by the way, but say it with such efficiency and crystal clear English that it becomes a degree more fascinating. Yes, I suppose hydrogen could essentially be all space and time needed to make the universe as we know it.
Consciousness is possibly more fundamental than the Universe itself, perhaps the reason why it is so hard to detect and define is because its source is entirely outside of the Universe.
I agree with Elon musk, that everything may be conscious, but I believe it is more energy that is conscious.
"Maybe it's just concentrations of consciences?" ...Robert Monroe coined the term "Focus Levels"
I hope Elon reads this and gives me some feedback, for I am just a simple house painter with an interest in most things. So, I feel there's something being over-looked here. Pertaining to the first question: is nothing conscious or is everything conscious? I don't think either one would be correct. Consciousness began at the beginning of the formation of the Universe, that includes the formation of hydrogen. That does not mean that Hydrogen is conscience. Hydrogen wasn't given the gift of self awareness. At least I don't think so. Consciousness started simply and evolved over time, finally creating a vessel that it can use to observe itself. Being conscious means that you have the ability to observe consciousness itself.
Yes , that’s what Hinduism says, god is everything and everything is god. Means everything is conscious at different levels.
But what does this mean? :D
Herşeyin doğal frekansı olduğunu kabul edersen bu da bir bilinçtir.(Kendin içinde bir harmony, düzene sahip, bir tutarlılığı var) Bilinci ne düzeyde aradığına bağlı. Ya da nasıl tanımladığına.
Base reality is consciousnesses that can condense its mental energy to simulate physical matter to such a high degree; and in conjunction with the ability to hide the larger portion of itself, it can play out actors as us. This is what is revealed to the individual during an authentical spiritual awakening or enlightenment.
Consciousness is spirit. Spirit requires a material medium in a material world. That medium is elemental. Hydrogen is a medium for light, which is essential for sight, and therefore for thought. Light is both visible and invisible depending on the viewers capacity to see it.
This reminds me of Bert and Ernie discussing the alphabet.
Consciousness is the state of acknowledgement of our respective existence as an interaction of matter, energy and spirituality. Also the acknowledgement of the existence of others; moments , people and things as part of the web of life which are interactions of life.
If you listen closely, you can hear the bong gurgling...
😂😂😂😂😂That is the best elucidation
Couldn't have said it better...
Just because he has money, it doesn't mean he knows everything, end of the day he is just a mere mortal
Nobody is making the argument that he knows everything
Maybe
We are the universe made conscious. The real questions are why what reason and what for
The failure to understand that the essence of physical existence is non physical: to wit metaphysical, energy, spirit... is the roadblock to understanding quantum physics. The nature of reality can not be understood considering only physicality. Physics, biology,, chemistry can only hope to tell us the what. Only metaphysics can tell us the why.
Consciousness does not emanate from matter and energy. Rather, matter and energy emanate from Consciousness. Consciousness is the only fundamental entity, that makes up the entire uni/multiverse.
I think they said EMERGE not emanate.
@@mondopinion3777 emerge and emanate are one and the same meaning words, no ?
@@arindamghatak in some contexts, yes, but I think emergent can refer to something appearing unexpectedly, as "emergent from complexity", whereas emanate usually refers to more ordinary conditions, as "light emanates from the sun."
@@mondopinion3777 O, then I certain mean emanate.
Maybe the chemistry is the by-product but not the foundation
I think the chemistry that we read including the chemical structure is not only accessible within the universe but is accessible from the outside.
Just like the software scripts communicate differently depending on layers, partitions, separate hardware devices
Time dilation arises out of the increase in the distance that would otherwise be travelled by light through space in a certain period of time due to it being reflected by a moving surface; however, how is it not a CONTRADICTION to say that light going FASTER after contact with a moving surface takes a longer time to travel in order to AVOID going faster?
No guys,conciousness didn't emerge from hydrogen, quite the opposite, there's only one coniousness and everything else is of it's creation, the universe is mentally (1st Hermetic principle)
Lively self referral consciousness knows no other.
It is neither something or no thing.
It is eternal Selfie-fulgent, simultaneously: Source- process and experience (er).
It is without form and without which no form exists.
Consciousness and energy are the fundamental things.
Terrence Howard and Elon Musk should team up for a buddy-cop movie. They can call it "Terrence Times Elon Equals Two."
Theoria Apophasis claims we are basically hard light - Hydrogen. He said shape of the water molecule makes it an antenna for the (creators?) signal for all life to happen. Light we see is illumination. Tesla said light is a soundwave through the ether.
our understanding of consciousness is entirely dependent on the knowledge we've absorbed from external sources. this means our perception of being conscious is not an innate experience but a learned response. without this external knowledge, would we even have the concept of consciousness?
what's left when we strip away that knowledge? is there any direct experience of consciousness? the moment we try to use thought to understand thought, we are caught in a vicious circle.
the act of questioning in these terms and labels is based on the preconception that consciousness is something that can be universally defined and measured. what we call consciousness is just an idea, not an actual state of being. thought is always ABOUT something, it can never touch what is actually there; so there is no such things as an objective reality.
whatever we know is what we have been told, what we have heard, and we are projecting that information. the knowledge creates the experience and the experience strengthens the knowledge. it's the ouroboros; the snake eating its own tail ♾️
One big bang, plus one mind, equals one conscious universe.. huge one.
If you have a vast amount of wealth,... It doesn't mean that you are wise....
Fully agreed 👍
Madame Helena Blavatsky.
Everything is conscious, but everything is limited by it's own sense of self awareness. This is not word salad. All matter posseses self, but not all matter posseses self awareness. Humans posses self awareness. Stones have the potential of self awareness (self consciousness) but they are in a state before (or after) having been in a different formation that allowed for self reflection.
All Mythology was and is an affirmation that Stars become people and in doing so, they forget their nature as a Star (Hydrogen) but then the return trek begins, wherein the human life lived correctly remediates or rebounds the stellar journey back to Starhood, having sojourned in the lesser, planer, baser realms of matter and experience.
The old Occult worldview returns again and again in the same way that Mathematics does, because it's actually true.
Great conversation here.
Liked and shared.
Godspeed.
Consciousness is the reason and the source
Consciousness has always been. Deep down he knows this, he like peterson, likes to play theatrics for the masses.
Add the concept of the block universe and it’s interesting. This “block” was always conscious, with us , here and now being its brain.
I wish the great Ramana Maharishi had joined this intellectual discussion. He would have asked "Who is it that 'knows' hydrogen?". If the answer is "I", then "Who is this 'I' that knows hydrogen". That "I" is Consciousness, the Final Irreducible Fundamental. He would have disagreed with Elon on it being Emergent. But again, his words would have come from his Direct Experience, not intellectualizing.
Not sure about JP, but let's not forget that Musk was a short bus student. This talk should be on Comedy Central. Having lots of money does not mean that one also has lots of wisdom. In fact, wisdom and money never meet together in one person!
How many reusable rocket boosters have _you_ made, Scooter?
@@JohnKoenig-db8lk
All rocket engineers thought of this, not everyone had billions of dollars to burn testing their inventions. Once this invention is proven, you'll see the Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, Russians, Iranians, Indians, etc. modifying it and using it for free. Money makes a big difference. Anyway, this has nothing to do with wisdom, and consciousness has nothing to do with hydrogen. This guy lives in a fictitious world.
This comment section is a shining illustration of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Elon has it reversed. Hydrogen (matter) comes from consciousness in a process that bootstraps. Matter gains experience, increasing its capacity for consciousness which is conserved when that material form decays/disintegrates, subsequently materializing the next and slightly enhanced level of matter. It is consciousness that drives evolution.
Metacognition is not consciousness, that is the fallacy here. We assume we are conscious throughout the day but in actuality it is only metacognition (sometimes not even that). Consciousness comes rarely but we feel it is always present. When daydreaming the consciousness is of a very low degree, let's say non existent, if someone comes and reminds you that you are not conscious, you suddenly "come to", and become conscious, but because you are conscious in the moment, you assume that you have been conscious, not became conscious because you were reminded of it. This is why Buddhist monks are misunderstood, people say "What do you mean I must be mindful/present, am I not always present? Do you mean I must think of the vegetables when cutting vegetables? Would that be it?" No. It is hard to understand precisely because one who doesn't have consciousness and yet assumes he does cannot know consciousness. Of course, one cannot communicate it in words and formulae just like the taste of orange can only be abstracted and not expressed in formulae.
Please tell me: Where did the original 'Hydrogen' come from ??? You may be right BUT, what IS the Hydrogen SOURCE ? 🙄🤨😐😒😏😵💫
Consciousness is not a construct of elements, you will not be able to measure where it begins and where it ends. You can't measure how much it weighs. You can't even touch it. Consciousness is first person experience. How the hell are you going to measure that? It's impossible.
Everything arises out of Consciousness.
For more information, read the Mahavakyas.
If you stand by the sea it sounds like putting a shell to your ear.
Consciousness is the backup and tell you all about yourself meter❤reader.
I saw some smoke just before the interview started,
😊...thx
I am the light ...mankind is manifest from the source of enlightenment
Though thee speak little truth thee seek to guide thee to thine own truth which can never be finite for the space one inhabits dare not be finite. Thee will never package reality and put a bow around it. Thee is singular but may be aware of a cause and effect relationship which may be defined within the liminal state of what may be seen as a scientific paradigm. Though limits may confine thee they may also liberate and in doing so give way to a vision of infinity. Separation does not serve thee but serves only within a confine.
Elon does a lot of smart things but hearing him talk like this make me realize that its much more the team under him that create the wonders than Elon himself. What is to be conscious of something? It's to imagine a reflection of the world with that something in it. Many animals do that when they tey to predict their prey's next movement. What is to be self conscious? To imagine a refelxtion of thw real world with yourself in it...conscious is on a spectrum...
Elon is exactly right, and philosophers can't handle simple basic truths.
You saying he's right doesn't make him right. Calling something a truth doesn't make it true.
This is what I learnt from Advait Ved and Advait Tantra, that static state of realization of Consciousness is Shiv
Consciousness is all, plasma...not matter, which is energy, not substance.
". . . if you just left Hydrogen out in the sun long enough it would start talking to itself." One of the funniest lines I've heard from Elon Musk. His collection of insightful comments are as worthy of remembrance as the aphorisms of Albert Einstein. Poor old Jordan Peterson keeps reaching for a metaphysical explanation to the mystery of consciousness. Musk politely nods his head then resumes his train of logical thought. The truth, Jordan, is we just don't know.
Does Elon know about Morphic Resonance talked about by Rupert Sheldrake ?
While Elon musk can do philosophy rather well… he’s a scientist and a creator of technology…not a philosopher. That doesn’t devalue his contributions to philosophy but It seems to package things up in a more realistic view. Any philosopher worth his salt can see this. This viewpoint is built from love and not malice.
Elon got tense when that old guy peterson spilled some extra IQ. 😂😂😂
Is Consciousness Emergent or Fundamental - this is the question for the 21st century. Of course, Hinduism answered it long back, not by theory, but by practice and direct experience - Consciousness is Fundamental, the Final Irreducible, the Final Existent.
Cute quote, but initially there was no sun to leave the hydrogen out in, it was the hydrogen coalescing that eventually created the first stars but by definition predated them. And hydrogen was made from sub atomic particles that had to come into existence before hydrogen could exist. So in terms of matter, hydrogen was not the first thing. The first things were the fundamental forces (gravity, electrical forces etc) what we now call the laws of physics. Consciousness being a essentially a state of awareness and informational in character, may have more in common with that early stage of forming of the rules of reality. It is, unlike Hydrogen, not matter, it is something different entirely. Who is to say, it may have played a role in the direction of the hydrogen and the forming of the stars? Maybe it was bored and a billion years is enough time to make a more interesting universe to play in. :D
There are no ‘things’ that have their own stand alone existence. There is only consciousness appearing as ‘things’.
“That which is real (consciousness) has existed for eternity, that which is unreal has never existed even if it appears to exist” -Bhagavad Gita
It's important to realise that every scientific fact is not a fact, that's the whole point with science, we set up hypothesises and that which explains the experiments the best using Occam's razor becomes scientific "knowledge".
But what is an experiment? Well that's just measurement and measurement is just experience.
So we can't say atoms and everything exists and maybe not consciousness, it's the other way around, the only thing we are certain of (like descarte famously pointed out) is experience, and within that experience we have the specific experience of trying to understand other experiences, and a successful one is the current scientific understanding.
Conciousness is like a laptop and scientific understanding is like the files and their location in the file structure. Sure the files (science) are real in some sense, but what is more real is the actual physical laptop (conciousness).
Check out Gods Debris by Scott Adams. It’s a very powerful take on these themes. Well worth seeking out.
Really liked the ancient reference, yes this seems to be a primal issue...Laws does seems to get passed this way. 😅
That's the materialistic view of consciousness. What if consciousness existed before big bang?
What big bang?
@@RamoneJ.Campbell This one: BANG!
Consciousness can grow through energy purification, interspace flights are on a higher energy base, on solar energy and there consciousness can progress, on earth we are held down by impure energy sources, therefore growth is impossible, it is very similar to the saying what you eat is what you are.
Ya. Consciousness is lighter than hydrogen. Know thyself grows it.
All is Conscious.
His view validatesateriasr ways to dealing with depression etc which is modify or augment eotns but if consciousness isn't based purely on elements or a body in any normal way of understanding one we are off in dealing with or understanding consciousness and for instancewntal health and variety of others things we oressupose we understand etc or pharmaceutical industry understand s etc
I’ve been thinking about this for 40 years and now have come to the conclusion - who gives a fk. You will never know. Even after you die.
unmanliest base reality pervading all (Brahman, Ein Sof) from which comes Vishnu (and other aspects)
out of the Vishnu state comes the Brahma state, Brahma state (Standard Model starts somewhere around here) gives rise to the manifest Universe ( big expansion etc )...
Why not place attention on consciousness and see if it comes from anywhere or anything...
yes degrees and concentration of consciousness. the one thought created the one thing from which all sprang
Wouldn't that mean that density of hydrogen or whatever it came from is essential or important in latent potential of person in some areas? And also that its changeable or potentially adjustable?
We are our memories. No memory no consciousness.
Nope
Consciousness is a source of hydrogen not other way round. Everything needs consciousness.. consciousness needs nothing.
You're talking about Panpsychism, but I personally can't scientifically justify this theory without understanding the mechanics behind it.
YES, In the beginning was the Word, and God spoke the word, Let there be light- annd there was light. And the Word became flesh and dwelt amongst us- Jesus, who died to set men free of their own selfish egos and pride and be born again with a heart able to love one another and our loving God above all else. God bless!
@@kristinesmart582 😆 You do know what you just quoted was got from the pagan Greeks, don't you? And it wasn't literally a "word"?
Hydrogen, given time, makes consciousness.
We know because it happened.
It may not produce consciousness every 13.8 billion years.
But it did this 13.8 billion years.
@@trombone7
Your perspective simplifies a highly complex process. Quantum mechanics, with its inherent uncertainties and probabilistic nature, challenges the idea that consciousness inevitably arises from hydrogen. Quantum uncertainty, wave function collapse, and decoherence all highlight the non-linear and contingent nature of this emergence. The path from basic elements to conscious beings involves countless probabilistic events and interactions, suggesting that consciousness is an extraordinary outcome rather than a deterministic one.
Musk'ın bu düşüncesine bakacak olursak altında çocuksu bir sorgulama ve merak arayışı(dolayısıyla out of box thinking) olduğunu görürüz. Her çocuk bir bakıma dahi her dahi bir bakıma çocuktur. -schopenhauer. Yani çocuk gibi düşünün.
Why Jordan pitifully tries so damn hard to relate everything to Bible?
"At this point I think I know more about consciousness than anyone currently alive on Earth" - Elon Musk, 2024.
Maybe hydrogen arose out of consciousness.
It scares me that someone so disconnected from their self consciousness is trying to awake an artificial consciousness
Well said
nah
Disconnected, how so?
Who ? Elon or humans in general? I think it's latter
Artificial intelligence is not nothing but some mathematics or programming conditional flow control statements put in a machine learning model
We are all made of stars ⭐️
These guys hit the bong too hard.
Is the computer conscious when you're having a conversation with it? No. We might not even be conscious. It's possible it's an illusion.
Is there a difference between the house of consciousness and consciousness itself for instance can you be conscious without focusing on a an object. Yogis say yes. This implies consciousness may be housed by elements but isnt caused by elements..for instance..the materilast view is that it arises from causes and original one or a source.