The High Ground: REALLY An Advantage in a Sword Duel?
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- Опубліковано 2 вер 2019
- You're probably aware of the High Ground meme from Star Wars: Episode III, where Obi-Wan boldly declared "It's over, Anakin. I have the high ground."
If you've ever wondered how decisive that would actually be in a real life fight with historical swords, this video is for you.
Thanks to my good friend Swordsage for helping out with this video while he was on a visit.
/ swordsage
• Sword Banter: The Chin...
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Intro song:
"Illuminate" by Vindsvept
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Outro:
"Highland Storm" by The Slanted Room Records
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#Swords #Swordfight #Starwars - Розваги
Anakin: It's over Obi wan, I have the low ground!
Obi wan: The floor is lava...
God damn it, that's a good one...
Anakin: It's over Obi wan, I have the low ground!
Obi wan: *launches Anakin into the lava using a single force push because when you're standing on a slope you really can't catch your footing if you get knocked off*
... I HATE YOUUU!
@Vayne Carudas Solidor depends on his pain tolerance and drugs his using.
@Vayne Carudas Solidor have you seen ppl camping near lava reavers and cooking stuff on'em? you can burn legs and ass completely and have intact lungs/vocal chords same time.
"Oh no he has the high ground, I'm doomed.
Or am i?
Hey Vsauce Michael here"
Let’s talk about that!
I miss him :(
@SoloTOV cause you re a littlefinger
Dammit!
I can hear the music
Me: does the High ground really give me an advantage?
Skallagrim: no
Me: you underestimate my power.
Gianmauro Monticelli
also you: * gets legs cut off *
Actually it does a little bit. The low ground fighter has to cover more aerial area in order to hit his opponent's head and chest. He can attack the legs but in that case the high ground person has to keep defending just his legs, so it's easier for him to defend himself with high ground. With his defensive fighting techniques Obi had the advantage. Not only that, the low ground fighter has to extend/abduct his limbs more whereas the high ground one has to flex/adduct more.
U can just jump at him
from what I remember, phalanx formation make use of higher ground in parts of the strategy. So i guess its really depend on the weapon.
In addition to the height, the guy on the high ground can perform a sword plant (trapping and knocking down your enemy's bladed weapon with your foot) much easier than in equal to lower height.
If Dark Souls has taught me anything: he who is lowest, wins.
Stand at castration distance. Fat roll like your life depends on it. 😐👌
The silver knights in anor londo tell a very different story
@@GummeeHater01 *PTSD intensifies*
That's actually brilliant. The terrible aiming system of dark souls combat somehow resembles real life advantage lower fighter has!
@@sakesaurus Why would you ever need to attack the floor, I mean honestly? XD
I cannot believe he didnt start this video with "hello there!"
Hello there
Hello there
General Kenobi
Captain Barnark hola obi juan
Hola therooo
*Unscrews the pommel
*YOU UNDERESTIMATE MY POWER*
Now I want to see that lol.
@@dennissala9173 *Ended rightly* I HATE YOU! I HATE YOU!
It's YOU UNDERESTIMATE MY POMMEL!
😂😂😂😂
Lightpommel
Him: high ground isn't a advantage
Me: years of academy training wasted
Using firearms? Or is your academy some kind of anachronism?
Enemy: "I have the high ground."
Me: "so what?"
Enemy: "We have the high ground."
Me: "now I'm nervous."
Obi-wan wants to know your location.
Its canada......
Well? You gonna post your r/whoosh comments or not?
"Obi-Wants Locationobi! You are a bold one!"
_Absolutely not._ Obi-wan is poorly programmed, his logic includes (at least one) logic bomb:
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes!" is itself an absolute, but Obi-wan claims not to be a Sith.
Nice pfp.
@@TheAsvarduilProject Ironic, he can save others from absolute but not himself.
fake, no one even attempted to do the force flip that was done in the movie.
They didn't have Ewan McGregor so it wasn't possible. Remember that only he has the power of the High Ground, which he used to defeat Darth Maul as well as Darth Vader.
CNN would be proud.
Or used a lightasber.
I mean skallagrim isnt a edgy not Jedi master and he listens to advice: “Don’t try it”
Anakin was just a bitch. Starkiller would have done it easily while simultaneously force choking and shocking Obi and then executing an X.X.X.X combo.
According my understanding, the phrase in Star Wars, I have the higher ground is supposed to say Obiwan is on a solid rock when Anakin is still on a floating droid, whatever Anakin strikes he will need to jump over to Obiwan, so Obiwan is getting the advantage not just height is a promising winning when he is the first one on a solid better position, in the movie it also shows that Anakin actually jumped which he needs to for reaching Obiwan, and Obiwan just need to wait and sweep his lightsabre on this easy target.
And that's the higher ground mean in my understanding.
ITS OVER ANIKAN, IM ON THE SOLID GROUND
There is actually an alternate ending in the ps2 game were Anakin jumps high enough over Obi Wan that he doesn't get his legs cut off and he kills Obi Wan
雪風 not just that but Anakin was also attempting to mirror what Obi Wan did to Darth Maul in the past, by flipping over him and ending him right then and there, Obi Wan knew what anakin was going to try, most likely due to Anakin having pride in himself and what better way to end your former master than to end him just like he did with Darth Maul. This is the precise reason as to why Obi Wan told him not to try it. And because he knew what Anakin was going to do, he managed to sever almost all of Anakin’s limbs save for his head, and robotic arm.
@@j3nn4y1 Ending him right*-LY*
elgatochurro ah dammit haha I hate that I didn’t add that in!
I'm not a SWs buff but weren't they much further apart and separated by increasing lava?
Yes.
Also, they were on an incline that was far steeper than demonstrated here.
not increasing, but yes, there was a fast flowing lava river under Anakin and a good distance between the two, certainly well outside their reach, and it was a slope of loose gravel/pumice, so in this very specific scenario obi Wan most certainly did have the advantage by having the high ground, the Platform Anakin stands on is protecting him from the intense heat from the lava, but once off it he's gonna feel that heat, and due to obi Wan's position Anakin would practically stand right by the lava, not a very pleasant place to be, once cut he slides down to where he was essentially going to stand and he catches on fire.
Nice, thanks y'all.
@@theldraspneumonoultramicro405 not really
the bank was very wide and even at the top there is no reason that he could not have just jumped to the sides
and jumping right at him like that frankly would have screwed him no matter what considering his saber is in no way protecting his jumping body
it was less a disadvantage and more a lazy way to end the fight
Fools, never underestimate the power of the high ground
Unless you have a pomel then it is a tie
In warfare and in terms of water the high ground is top (yeah I know), and for ranged weapons as well (obviously(?)), but yeah ... handbook-people (to not call them psychopaths) only know by rules (not law), not by sense.
@@unclechair2208 Maybe if you do not have the high ground and the one on the higher ground has no pommel, to follow your train of thought. : >
@@Leftyotism i was talking about lightsabers (since they do not have pommels) but your idea is also good
Fool! Never underestimate the power of the low ground! After all if you silhouette yourself on a hill, your an easy target for those below in cover.
You were supposed to start the memes not kill them!
Ah but he did when he addressed the meme he made people make the meme in the comments so the prophecy was true from a Certain Point of View.
DarthAndrew520 to bring light to the memes, NOT LEAVE THEM IN DARKNESS!
YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!
AnimeSunglasses you were my meme Anakin... I love memes.
Anakin: I HATE MEMES... And sand.
At least he ended it rightly
Skallagrim: There is no advantage in holding the high ground.
Napoleon, Sun Tzu, Alexander, Sir Thomas Fairfax, Gustav II Adolphus, Alexander Nevsky, and Oda Nobunaga: HOLD OUR BEERS!
Skallagrim: For duels, you dilberts!!!
Generals: *Mutter, mutter, mutter*
The difference between strategy and tactics.
Strategies and tactics are same - Tyrion Lannister
by the way Napoleon (austerlitz) is maybe the only one who managed to totally turn the high ground strategy on it head x) but that was still by establishing a strategy around the advantage it represents and fooling his ennemies by giving it and leading them to not take advantage of it,
"in fact yes but actually no"
I think one of the French generals said something about if Wellington has a hill to defend we could die of old age trying to dislodge him
just a few modern examples: two tanks held the golan heights, the soviets couldn't elevate the guns on their tanks high enough to return fire in afghanistan, and the anzacs (spelling?) couldn't capture galipoli.
"There is one situation where I can really see this being an advantage..."
[Throws pommel from the high ground]
Pommel misses and sword falls out of handle, glances off the rock and runs the opponent through the foot.
Too sad they don't have pommels on lightsabers. How should a jedi ever end his opponent rightly? :-(
@@metamorphicorder I'm guessing you've not watched Skal for very long
@@nooneinparticular9219 I got the pommel reference. I was extending the joke.
@@metamorphicorder ok thought you were taking us seriously
Obiwan: **has highground**
Me: "You fool. I have been trained in your jedi arts by Skallagrim." **strikes at ankles while crouching**
Ah, the chihuahua technique
Obiwan: *Screams in pain and suffering*
No one like the original comment, it has 66 likes.
*Lightsaber throw.
@@TarsonTalon *light saber got force push away*
not again, obi wan's going to kill me.
High ground gives massive advantage when using ranged weapons,such as pommels.
I think throwing a pommel from elevation is a international war crime. The devastation it could cause is unthinkable.
First off, they did not take into consideration the lower person fighting while on an actual slope AFAICT. The lower person being off balance gives a much greater advantage to the high ground, especially if the high ground is using polearms. They mentioned polearms, but not the disadvantages for the lower person not the probability of knocking people on the slopes down over forwards or backwards and this fully exposed .. much like playing King-of-the-Hill.
Missile weapons, even tossed rocks or even turf, are another issue, let alone the slight range and power advantage for bows. Again, mass combat.
Finally, in mass combat, the one who gets there first may be able to entrench or utilize wicker or other stick/stone/earth walls to protect the legs .. shields alone can change the dynamic.
I hope the read this and do a sequel :)
But other than slope great coverage on one on one dies with serious or light sabers 👍
Wrong word pommel?
They were trying to imahine and imply pole arms using what they had with them
@@motagrad2836 he meant pommel
@@powerpug964 .. a pommel as a thrown weapon? Not the weapon, but just the pommel???
Well, in most one-to-one swordfights, the high ground will be a disadvantage.
But in this special occasion, there are some other factors that come in to play.
Anakin had no real ground beneath his feet, no direct way to approach his opponent.
He had to jump to reach ground before being able to fight on. And that was the vulnerable part about it.
Why? Well, Obi-Wan was prepared to react to a leaping attack.
Even though the situation between Obi-Wan and Maul seems to be similar, there are some differences.
First, and most importantly, Obi-Wan's attack caught the gloating Maul totally off-guard.
And then there is the"angle of attack":
- Obi-Wan was hanging on a ledge, a few feet below Maul. (vertical)
At that angle, it is quite difficult to observe what your opponent is doing, even if you put your full attention to it.
- Anakin was hovering over a lava river, on a small platform, no sight obstruction and a few feet away. (horizontal)
Even a gloating Maul would have been able to see the attack - as long as he didn't turn his back on his opponent.
Obi-Wan's "high ground" wasn't the real reason for his advantage.
Not to mention the possible use of force and they don't need strenght since they were using Light Sabers.
I just re-watched episode 1 like 3 days ago and the face of Darth Maul was very surprised when he saw Obi-Wan want flip over his head. Maul like what's happening right now you are unarmed what are you even trying to do....? Got cut in half. And then because of this he was so angry he couldn't die.
Next time in over analyzing memes
@Seaworth That's the point hes trying to make. Anakin NEEDED to jump over to Obi-wan. He was on a platform that was going to sink into lava. He was in no position to retreat nor to slowly advance. Even if there was room for Anakin to reach the land, since obiwan was higher he could easily knock over and push Anakin into the lava. He was trapped.
JPreciado I mean he can just jump on the slope a dozen feet to Obi-Wan’s side or something going straight overhead was very dumb
Skall: the high ground is not that powerfull
Obi wan: "i want every gun we have to fire on that man."
Too uncivilized for Old Ben ;)
Well it is an advantage if your opponent does an angry rage jump flip so you can cut off his legs...
Edit: wow most likes I've ever gotten lol awesome
Also when your opponent has his back to lava
Somebody been playing for honor to much 😂
@@treylife8292 Its a Star Wars reference. Not a For Honor one mate.
It's an advantage if you're on a wall and there's only a ladder to get up.
Also, you know how to slide down ladders.
That is a For Honor reference.
Also if you can force push someone out of the force jump
Disclaimer: does not apply to laser swords and space wizards
Nor on lava rivers on hell worlds
I believe the high ground is referring to a slope more than standing on an elevated surface.
Difference being?
Andy KnightWarden elevated surface effectively acts as "wall", locking the movement in forward direction and acting as a shield for the person below. Slope just lifts one person slightly above the other without all of that and, even more importantly, allows for natural change in position of the fighters. Where as you sure as hell won't go climbing up an elevated surface while in battle.
@@sh4dy832 Depending on the height of the elevated surface. The video's example can be considered either, and confers significant disadvantage on the on atop it.
Andy KnightWarden battlefield tactics rather than one on one dual.
I believe that’s where the difference is, fighting uphill is harder than downhill; that’s where this whole high ground has advantage comes from.
@@Nijuka87 Yup. They even mention that in the video, though their phrasing for it is "unit tactics".
in the movie they were further apart and anakin was on a separate rocky thing while on lava
I wanted to emphasize of how much the "high ground" meant in their context, as of Anakin basically on lava.. I thought of it more of, "I'm standing on a better platform than you"
Yeah I like how he never mentions that.
Also Anakin was stupid enough to rush uphill with a flip.
Juan Delgadillo
Exactly
@@doombybbr hey in drama, doing a flip almost always gives you an advantage
Somehow
" he's too dangerous to be kept alive"
*Proceeds to unscrew pommel*
Pamela frites dab
🤣🤣
what's the unscrew pommel reference from because I don't get it.
@@jason200912 look up "ending him rightly"
lol lol lol lol lol
Skall: You're using Bonetti's defense against me, eh?
Sage: Only natural, given the rockey terrain.
GREAT REFERENCE. As you wish!
Unless your opponent has a-studied his Agrippa!
@@Cryogenius333 damn! You beat me to it
Rocco Bonetti was master of fence at Blackfriars in the 1500's. He was famous for doing two things 1. Bragging about how awesome he was at fencing 2. getting beat down in front of his own school.
"Bonetti's Defense" is, as the princess bride jokes, talking so big everyone is afraid to fight you because they assume your awesome.
Punished Bearzerker God tier reference
Now try it not being an advantage while standing on a small piece of scrap metal floating in lava..
If we are talking about that situation all Anakin has to do is go downstream like 10 feet or force jump at an angle Obi isn't at an angle to cut off.
Lyrim Obi-Wan also has force speed and the like, if he would’ve gone somewhere else obi wan could’ve moved too
@@lyrim4678 you realize obi one isn't glued to that one spot right
@@mariobadia4553 just force push lava into obi wans face
jump downstream combined with force push
the advanced skill of a simple block that was used in every other lightsaber flip except that one for some reason
turn around and steal the guys ship stranding him on lava world
flash him with his dick then strike while he is disturbed and very confused
@@scottgrasser9475 anakin was pissed af he would want to kill obi-wan personally not strand him there, obi-wan also has the force and was quite talented at telekinesis, thus throwing lava at his face would most likely not work, as a said anakin was pissed and wanted to finish obi-wan off as fast as he could thus he wont be trying to flank him or anything like that
The High ground: Really an advantage?
Skallagrim: No
Me an intelectual: *Mario stomp*
Sun Tzu > skallagrim , high ground was and will always be an advantage
"I admit, you are better than me."
"Then why are you smiling?"
"Because I know something that you do not know"
"And what's that?"
'I am not left handed"
Everyone quoting sw and finally a man of culture.
I know I've heard that before can someone tell me what that's from?
@@keeganwilson9062 WHAT? You've never seen the movie The Princess Bride??
ua-cam.com/video/WDlZ_SXx5gA/v-deo.html
Well I know something you don't as well... I'm not left handed either!
@@Sacremas Missed it by 72 hours.
Halfling: *hops on rock* It's over Therian! I have the high ground!
Therian(Human): Nope. We're at about the same height now.
sounds like a nice DnD moment
Hey, is Therian already a name in something? Because I have been writing a story with a protagonist named Terian for some time now and I wouldn´t like it to be too similar to something that already exists.
@Dieter Gaudlitz Thanks
@Dieter Gaudlitz Thanks man. Yeah, I´ll think about it. I don´t know if it´s worth the effort of changing it, because I might miss it in some places.
Elias Bischoff A name's a name, it's only a problem if you take an existing character and just tweak their name. Like if Terian was a ripoff of Tyrian from game of thrones
Before even watching: "No. Because geometry."
Obi has the advantage when high ground exists, not necessarily when he has it. Whether on low ground or high ground, as long as it isn't perfectly even ground, he wins.
Maul: Has low ground, wins
Dooku: No high ground, loses
Dooku rematch: No high ground, loses
Greivous: Has low ground, wins
Vader: Has high ground, wins
Vader rematch: No high ground, loses
...this old pasta is great.
I assume "having the high ground" advantage would mean a terrain slope, not standing on a rock.
My thoughts exactly. Anakin was in a slop terrain where Obi-Wan could make him slip. Also, there's the problem with the footwork against the highground depending on how much of a cliff it is; in the case of anakin it's very awkward to advance, but to Obi Wan it's easy to push Anakin, and even if he falls, anakin is more screwed than him.
I think Skall's got the high rock, not high GROUND.
Deimos It could also be the top of a castle wall versus being on level ground, this turns even a toilet bucket into an effective ranged weapon, and adds significant power to ordinary ranged weapons like bows and rifles.
The high ground is only useful for charging downward very quickly and making it harder for someone tae overwhelm ye. Fighting uphill is pretty difficult.
@@lowlandnobleman6746 id say its a question of intent a d knowledge. Whoever wants to take the others position will be at a disadvantage (melee weapons only). One who has the low ground but knows how to use it to its advantage while the enemy is trying to take thier position should fare quite well. If they however seek to take the higher ground than indeed they are at a disadvantsge.
On Portuguese he talks something like "I am on firm ground"
Not an accurate test without lava
Neither lightsabers neither prequel memes...
How uncivilized
"A certain science fiction... soap opera"
The greatest Star Wars meme so far
It's actually regarded (in accurate terms) as a *space* opera, but whatever.
[Yes i know you were quoting the video.]
High ground is an advantage for an army for several reasons:
- More of your archers are able to be used at once against the enemy infantry.
- Any backwards motion in the army "fighting an uphill battle" has a chance of being catastrophic.
- Your troops have twice the movement speed and initiative in the melee as the enemy troops, meaning your guys will constantly be engaging in 2v1 and reinforcing their friends, whereas a large section of the enemy force will be dwindling their thumbs at any given time.
- Looking 15 degrees up affects your peripheral vision. Enemies will constantly have to look back down to avoid tripping while moving.
- The enemy has a very hard time moving forward but can rout effortlessly, affecting their morale.
- Your infantry has the equivalent impact of a cavalry charge if they all start to run downhill like maniacs.
- Pole weapons thrusting down have more energy than thrusting up as you can step into the stab.
There is a reason why all books about war from every era and every country make mentions about high ground. Fighting an uphill battle is a literal metaphor for having odds stacked against you.
But this is 1v1, compared to army v army
high ground also gives an advantage in modern combat, from an elevated position you typically have better options for c&c and the c&c of your opponents is typically negated. Of course arty and CAS typically removes this advantage, but in an engagement where neither are an immediate factor the force at a higher position has a higher chance of victory.
@@darkwarrior5149 This is why Spears are so much better. In duels, spears can utilize high ground much more effectively than swords.
Edit: didn't watch the whole video, they mentioned that.
The key issue there is uphill. It's not being on a higher level that confers the advantage, it's literally gravity pushing against any move you make on a slope. They did this test completely wrong by using flat surfaces. That wasn't the situation in the movie.
Having the high ground between two dudes who can flip and careen and bolt into the air, is a weird argument in Star Wars. The movies are filled with equal-footing foes flipping off of these positions to continue their light saber fights. The entire series is a contradiction to that one line, which makes it just a bizarre culminating argument.
How dare you question Star Wars canon! Get him, nerds!
*Senate attacks with a good trick*
Both Jedi and Sith know better than to challenge a master of pommel throwing.
To be fair, Obi-Wan was referring to a very specific situation. He didn't say that the high ground gave him the upper hand now and forever.
Ladies and gentlemen... WE GOT HIM
@@jonathancampbell5231 And even then, he defeated Anakin by slicing his legs off.
I mean, I guess if you're surrounded by lava, then it is a problem! XD
If you're surroundedby lava, then it doesn't matter if it is a sword duel, you have a problem.
Yup. This is the big difference. Anakin had to close a gap over lava onto solid ground where Obi-wan was posed for a retaliation. It's less that he was up high and more that Anakin had to approach his more defensible position (in one swoop, can't cautiously and slowly approach over lava) and Anakin was a dumb pride boy.
@@wSeeDw It matters if you the guy on the lower ground decides to jump to keep fighting the one at the HIGH GROUND, we saw what happened
@@neph6098 I HATE YOU!
That actually adds a lot of sense to what Obi wan said. The lava level was rising, so the high ground would allow obiwan to stay put while Anakin would be forced to move or be engulfed by the lava.
This why Anakin was separated from his legs, lightswords have no pommel
Lightswords
Lightswords
Light.....
*SWORDS*
Lightswords...
It's great you mentioned the battlefield advantage. Especially in a shield formation.
Skallagrim: Don't try it!
High Ground: You underestimate my power!
(I think it gives you a huge advantage with a range weapon, but that's a whole new story)
ranged weapons yes,
but swords and other meelee weapons ?probably not
If you have spear pike zweihander or something like that that might give you advantage l think
Thats pretty much what i was thinking. At range you have significantly more cover and attacking down at your opponents allows you to get over there cover from a distance.
@@kaseko6549 Yeah. If you're dealing with guns, if your opponent has the high ground, he can easily blow your head off. But if you get the high ground, you can do the same to him.
In groups I’d also prefer the high ground. They kinda made it too high in the vid.
I think the point was that Anakin was going to do that flip jump and it doesn't work if your opponent is already above you.
Basically he was ignoring basic form through arrogance.
*cough* Darth Maul
@@fi4re Darth Maul thought he had already won and wasn't expecting that jump.
anakin had to jump, they were about 30 yards apart 15 yards from lava+shore then 15 yards to ascend the hill of loose dirt.
jump just to shore-> obiwan force pushes you into lava [ ]
-> obiwan doesn't push when you land waits for you to be ascending the hill to push you down into lava [ ]
jump over -> have a chance to corner him with his back to lava and a hill he can fall down [x]
wait it out -> robot sinks into lava finally, burn to death in lava [ ]
boy was stuck in a no win really, his jump was way too short he covered like 30 yards and 2 feet then got slice and diced
@@SoopDwagg Could've jumped to the sides.
@@andyknightwarden9746 into a river of lava ? or do you mean right or left landing on the bank of the river so that he can be pushed in?
Skallagrim: Points out the high ground isn't much an advantage.
Me: I want that guys Tokyo Ghoul shirt now.
I actually got one of those and I get plenty of complements
Oh no the edge lords are here lol
Once again it all depends on the location because he's on the big rock and Obi-Wan was on a slope of a Hill well he could have through dirt in anakin's eyes or as soon as he stepped off the platform force push him into the lava so what they're doing is a bad example of the high ground
Skallagrim: It's over, I have the low ground!
Other HEMA dude: You underestimate my footwork!
Obi wan defeated maul from below. Anakin has studied under obi for years and has frequently asked obi how he defeated maul. So anakin, in his arrogant rage, challenge obi, he thinks he had figure out how to do obi's move. But alas he was wrong
Maul was a master of aggression type light saber fighting. It was made purely to kill which is why it wasn't taught in the jedi temple. He also weilds an aggressive type lightsaber which if you use both combined leads to an exteamly kill hungry sith. Naturaly being aggressive means youlack defense which is why the lightsaber maul used coverd for him as it was an easy defense weapon. However easy defense only covers basic attacks. Maul loses alot to people with complex fighting styles. So when obi uses an extremely complex fighting style of flipping while using a lightsaber he could do nothing. Obi however has an extremely complex defense fighting style so it covers complex movements. Also that if you know an extremely powerful move and notice someone is doing something you are familiar very with unfamiliar handling, rage, and cockiness... Well it's just kinda expected. When obi says I have the high ground he could just mean *I* (obi) have the high ground.
Zoe Moonlight you sounded like you knew what you were talking about, until you started to talk about obi wans style of fighting being complex- when in fact, the fact that it was quite the opposite is why obi wan was so effective
@@man____moth6468 I mean it's pretty complex.
Zoe Moonlight it isn’t- are you sure you know what form he used?
Obi wan was only effective because of his raw mastery of form 3, using extremely basic, tiny movements for the most efficient defence
Form 4, which he was originally trained in was a complex, mobility and offensive based style, but that isn’t what obi wan was considered the master of, nor what form he used
What you’re saying is similar to saying kit fisto has a complex fighting style, when much like obi wan, it was his simplicity that made him so effective
@@man____moth6468 simple to use doesn't mean the opposite of complex in the making.
I see the first image and I am thinking: "THE LEGS! THE LEGS!". : >
Covering the legs is hard, better have good footwork, which is negated by the "high ground". Still, there are some reach advantages about the high ground, hitting vitals is easier, but also easier to cover for the antagonist.
@@jbertucci Which is exactly how Anakin was defeated. Before getting burnt to a crisp.
@@jbertucci And when you cut someone down you can reach the vitals even better, to follow your train of thought, which is not the road I took (reaching someones vitals), after mentioning the legs as tastey target. ^.^
PS
I am not of the type to verbally fight with you about if "the high ground is better" or not, and to get your mind back to the out-canceling effects; which were also mentioned in the video. So yeah, I am in team fractionless. : >
I, on the other hand, kept thinking spears(or pikes) and shields. A shield would make it really difficult to hit from below and a long weapon would let you reach over the entire body of the person below. There's a reason the primary weapon of defending the "high ground" is a pointy stick( especially against those pesky fresh fruits that try to invade your lawn).
@@amitabhakusari2304 That would be unfair and has more to do with weapons than with the ground though.
If he backs up, you have to follow.... what you gunna do climb? Use your off hand? Jump? The act of climbing is what puts you at a disadvantage. The high ground advantage is the advantage of the defender who is willing to wait for a mistake. Also energy expenditure in climbing is significant. Its about longevity and patience and hits to armored legs are hard, you have two joints, one at the knee and one at the groin. So the concept that you can hit everywhere and he can hit a limited space is trivial when you consider being armored or taking a step back and waiting for the other to try to climb to attack. IMHO this is not well thought out.
UponGiantsShoulders to be fair, who says he has to follow? Actually he could much more easily draw him down, a he gunna stay on that rock for ever? Not to mention having the high ground doesn’t make you the defender. IMO this comment wasn’t very well thought out
This whole comment is based on assuming you have to follow someone up a rock if they climb it... which would pretty much never be true. Congratulations you are now the king of that rock.. gonna stay there forever?
@@donkeystew2432 High ground doesnt.make.you defender but it gives you benefit when you decide to be.defender which is what you really.should be doing when you have terrain adventage. Dont leave your adventageous zone. Meanwhile person on lowground either has to chase in disadventage or be forced to retreat. Theres a reason why historically high ground was seen important. They waited their opponent to climb up and charge only when opponent showed sign of retreat or exhaustion not go on full aggro and meet them in the middle from start.
His argument only really works if the person on high ground is willing to fight someone on lowground. Not wait for him to try to climb up ,which is when you are vulnerable due to bad footing and balance, and attack
and your inclusion of armour, greaves and sabatons, is indeed valid. However, armour obviously requires very different tactics, as is the inclusion of a shield as they mention. take this more like a 1 v 1 encounter rather than a premeditated conflict, aka they have their trusty sidearms and are in day to day wear.
The whole point of obi having the high ground. Was he was patient and didn’t want to even fight anakin.
He was fine with staying there and standing his ground in a defensive formation.
After watching this, I wonder if you could analyse some fights in the Pirates of the Caribbean, I always notice that the main characters are always effortlessly parrying and dosging while the other guys are trying their best to kill them.
I hope Skall would do that too!
I am not knowledgeable enough so sorry to ask, Is the Pirates of the Caribbean trying to be relatively accurate when it comes to combat not necessarily? Again, i am not a specialist in sabre combat at all so I wouldn't be able to know. Scholagladiatora's channel might know more on sabre specifically not sure.
For reasons of the movie, the main characters are usually always overpowered....
They basically hit each other's saber over and over again
So...should it be:
“It’s over. I have the low ground!” now?
More "it depends on the context". Either way you have to fight smarter, not harder and make your opponent come to you. Plus Obi-Wan read Anakin like an open book.
The fact that you've chosen rocky terrain as your high ground makes your situation unique and different from other traditional uphill battles.
the basic situation being adressed here is also barely connected to traditional uphill battles.
@@Starklar Agreed. The advice in this example is situational and should only be applied to this exact scenario. Normal high ground does have it's advantages, but it seems those aren't addressed in this video.
and are the legs/ankles rly the way to go in that Situation, because from what I've seen medieval soldiers had rather good leg armor than thicc chestpieces
if ya know what I am sayin
@@Starklar it was literally uphill in the movie, not two platforms of different elevations.
So Yoda should basically be unbeatable - he natively has the low ground
Impossible! Perhaps the archives are incomplete!
That was fun, guys! Thanks for the video. I always wondered about that in Star Wars...
Okay ladies, memes aside, the whole point of a high ground as depicted in the Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith, was not one person standing one meter away on a rock or a ramp one meter tall. This "test" is not worth jack shit. "High ground' wasn't even literally a place that's situated higher in that context. Obi Wan was almost at exact same height as Anakin in there. The high ground literally meant a field advantage. This was clearly a reference for them training together in the past. A high ground must've been words they used to describe a default battlefield advantage you can gain that forces your opponent to back away, or otherwise you can exploit it. In that particular scene, the high ground was the fact that Obi Wan had a solid footing, while Anakin was on a melting droid, in the middle of a lava lake. Meaning he had very limited time and options. He had to either surrender, or try a very difficult to make jump - both because of how far away the droid was, and because Obi Wan would be waiting for him on the other side, and it would be almost impossible for Anakin to defend properly when focusing all of his force power on a difficult jump like this. Like most of you probably know, a jumping opponent is an easy target. They can't use footwork and have very limited options for parries and blocks. They can not alter the momentum of their movement, so they are easy to outmaneuver. They don't have a footing, so you can easily exploit their lack of balance. They have their legs exposed from below, which are almost impossible to defend from a verical position (notice that this is exactly where Obi Wan cut Anakin. He cut off his exposed, and impossible to properly defend legs with the first swing, and than one of his arms with a following swing). This is why Anakin responded with "You underestimate my power". Anakin was so drunk with his newfound dark side power, he thought he was already beyond simple dueling rules that himself and Obi Wan learned by countless years of harsh training. He also couldn't give up the fight and simply surrender, not after everything he has done. He knew there was no turning back at that point.
The only correcr answer here.
This.
It was actually about the defeat of Darth Maul, which is the exact move Anakin was trying. Note how Anakin tried jumping BEHIND Obi-wan, just as in episode 1.
"Height advantage" is a common trope in RPG combat systems, it's not just one daft scene in a Star Wars movie which is being scrutinized here.
Before jumping behind Obi-Wan, Anakin isn't standing on a droid but the same platform where Obi-Wan jumped from.
That’s not even the high ground, that’s a “high rock”
IKR they should do this on a ramp for more realism or side of hill.
“It’s over, I have the High Ground!”
Unscrews Pommel, “I’m about to end this man’s whole career.”
The high ground is more so an advantage if you wanted to escape, for now your opponent has to climb to get you, while you, if you have any weapon with major reach, you can simply poke him down. And if you had a projectile it becomes even worse, for now you just sit, wait, aim, BOOM
"FUCKING CAMPERS"
But if you wanted to make it a duel and continue it, you're best option is to simply wait for them to do something.
Basically the high ground advantage is the person below has to come to you, not you to them.
So i don't really feel this video was the best of example. For in the star wars movie. Obi was a good ten or something feet away from Anakkin, and much higher, Obi was also on stable ground while Annakin was about to plummet to his death. This means Annakin is quite literally in check mate, the only way he comes out of this alive is by doing a huge dramatic jump, to which Obi just needs to lift up his saber to exactly where Annakin lands..and well chop chop bye bye ani.
This situation is just "OH I FOUND A high ROCK TO JUMP ON"
But even than the example still stands, where the person below has to chase, the person above doesn't.
Agreed, this is a common incorrect interpretation of the high ground advantage. The high ground is a defensive advantage, not an offensive , melee advantage. If the enemy wants YOU....they have to circumvent the dangerous footing and terrain to get you, and while they're off balance or distracted THEN you have the advantage. If instead you go down the dangerous footing YOU are at the disadvantage. It's the same concept as putting a defensive line on the edge of a river so the enemy have to fight from the water.......defensive advantage. If you jump in the water with them, there's no advantage anymore.
Thanks for saving me the trouble.
I believe the height difference in Episode 3 was also a lot greater than this. (Correct me if I’m wrong).
Like you guys said, forcing Anakin to move up to Obi-Wan.
Phantom GG That moment when the ground becomes your shield.
Did enjoy it. Lovely to see this flow of momentum and the way you dance with it. Reminds me of the time a practiced Pencak Silat.
This is the quality content I'm subscribed for.
Plot twist.
Obi-wan didn't mean he had the high ground literally, but figuratively.
Hm :)
From a certain point of view, Obi Wan was always right.
@@PobortzaPl From every point of view, Obi Wan is right. He's basically god.
Skallagrim: "I don’t feel safe here” - Camera cuts out...
*SwordSage:* It's over, Skall! I have the high ground!
*Skallagrim:* You underestimate my power!
*Camera:* [Dies]
*Me:* I believe that man is deceased.
you may have the high ground but do you have the LAVA GROUND! LAVA GROUND!!
That high ground bit never made much sense to me, seeing as Maul had it and got cut in half anyway. And Obi was in a much worse position than Anakin.
Maul wasted his advantage by showboating
@@marcusc9931 He was confident yes, but he had more than enough time to cut obi wan in half as he jumped over him.
@@dennissala9173 So...you're saying Obi-Wan didn't know what he was doing?
Dennis Sala it was mainly that Obi wan could defend against almost any move, that’s why he was sent to take on grievous, because obi wan was regarded as the master of the defensive form. And when he cut anakin’s arm and leg he used a technique that was meant to disable dangerous opponents by taking out their limbs.
Anakin was also surrounded by lava and there was more distance. Obi-Wan also fought more defensively.
I know this is a more of a duel reference because of star wars... but fighting uphill battles is a disadvantage. People have used hills, plateaus and mountains as an advantage for far too long now to question that. But a one on one situation is indeed questionable
As long as Skall can throw the pommel it doesn't matter which ground the opponent stands.
To be fair, Anakin had lava on his feet. In order to attack Obi-Wan he needed to jump, so there's the disadvantage
Or you can do what Oblivion characters always tell me to do: "Jump on my sword, if you can!"
Nice video, never would have thought of that seriously
I have yet to watch the video, but judging by how at ease that dapper gentleman on the rock is, I'd say Skallagrim has finally met his match.
What about moving back on the rock and forcing the person on the ground to either mantle the rock or give up on attacking you. Also what about moving forward off the rock after a deflection, etc. I would think you could easily knock them over by striking their chest or head if you have the opening, given the center of gravity relative to yourself is very low. Then proceeded to jump down on them. (not necessarily a death stroke flying jump through the air but more of a controlled hop down then a powerful strike to a grounded opponent) Just some creative advantages I would think of if I had the high ground.
I think its more like Anakin was standing on platform surrounded by lava and had to jump towards obi wan. Which would make him in the air for some seconds and it looked cool and was a clever use of words, hence it still bring relevant today lol
That's the most stupid thing about the scene. He didn't have to. Lucas had every chance and resource to tell a good story but he blew it. After the fact I researched and it seems that the original trilogy was rewritten by some concerned (and talented) friends and directed by actually capable people. The prequels were all Lucas'. Unfortunately.
@@jbertucci Lucas is a great idea man. But he needs help bringing the best out of those ideas
@@jbertucci have you seen the new ones though? I feel like we gave him too much crap
Phillip Cho Mind-boggling incompetence does not excuse moderate incompetence.
@@fly1ngG0PHER True, though to be fair I have actually come to like the bureaucratic and political mess that's in the prequels minus the JarJar diversions, and after the last jedi, I, like many people have begun to soften my stance against George.
To be fair, I truly believe Obi-wan only said that to bait Anakin into making an exploitable mistake
3:13 I've always taken the whole "high ground" as a figure of speech* in that certain movie, referring exactly to an advantageous position generally i.e. Obiwan having better footing: solid and quite wide piece of ground under his feet vs. Anakin having a small, barely floating droid-thingy and just lava everywhere else.
*and why would there be such a figure of speech? Well, 2:52 strategic victories were won by armies, not by individuals, so an army having an advantage usually matters more than an individual having a disadvantage.
If people were critiquing the scene as an example of Lucas's clunky dialogue, I'd be with 'em on that...
I was once sparing against a taller opponent on a field with rolling hills. We were both using sword and shield and I managed to beat him by taking the high point and striking him over the shoulder and onto his back. With a shield or a pole arm the high ground is indeed your friend, and in all honesty Anakin should have just force shoved some lava towards Kenobi before jumping
I mean I’d say there’s a difference between being on a rock and being up a slope on the side of a river of lava while having a 6m gap between them and standing on a floating robot....
I have a feeling he didn't even watch that scene on UA-cam since he would have known this.
I had a similar thought, however there is nothing preventing the lower person from simply leaving knowing that the one with the high ground would have to take time to come down. And if that course is not taken it seems to me not significantly different than any other attacker vs. defender situation.
It was over because Anikin was in a precarious position, not just because of "high ground". Now... if we bring artillery (or other ranged units into the mix), things change dramatically.
Im really enjoying this guy with you
Very cool to see these examples of tactics.
If you think that the High Ground doesn't give you advantage Then you are Lost!!
That's what I say when people criticize the prequels. Either that, or "It's treason, then." When people criticize Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2, I say, "It is heresy of the highest order." If you don't understand it, see the movie immediately.
maybe kick dirt in thier eyes seems pretty effective IF tere is dirt or dust to kick up
POCKET SAND!
Mythbusters tested this and found that you are actually better off on the low ground in a melee fight
Sun Tsu disagrees
@@Xgendude14 Obi Wan would agree with mythbusters. Sure, he had the high ground momentarily, but once Anakin went for a jumpslash, his legs were soon sliced off. He REALLY shouldn't have tried that.
@@Xgendude14 Sun Tsu was concerned with battlefield strategy. He didn't write about one on one combat.
Which is objectively a lie.
Every general in history has tried with everything they had to maintain the high ground.
Maybe it sounded stupid to have them say "It's over Anakin! I have the low ground!"
Enemy:on high ground
Me:steps backwards
You: falls over down the slope while enemy pounces on you
I absolutely love your guests shirt!
H I G H G R O U N D E R
coming soon...
I should ground you for making a joke that bad.
@@Corvus__thats HIGHLY unlikely
High there
At _last,_ we settle this question once and for all.
Alas indeed
I'm surprised Shad didn't beat you to this. Great video.
Obi Wan: "It's over, Anakin, I have the high ground! There goes your arm!"
Anakin: "Op, there goes your legs, 😁."
Obi-Wan did have the high ground but it was solid ground that actually mattered.
Let's be honest. Could the high ground defeat a pommel throw?
I think not
Valid points but the ‘high ground advantage’ comes in because Obiwan was on solid ground up a slope whereas Anakin was on a (lava raft) floating platform at least 8 ft from him. If he jumps in front of him, he’s open to an attack. If he jumps over him/past him he’s open to an attack. A là “it’s over because you’re screwed no matter which option you pick”.
I think a well guarded leap forward to just land in front of Obi Wan would have been a fairly good choice. What killed anakin was basically doing saltos which made it hard/impossible to guard.
Alternatively, if he jumped in a way that had him stretched awway from obi Wan with his legs while guarding his head with the lightsaber or attacking could have worked as well.
The low ground was not solid and was probably about 20 degrees hotter than the high ground, so Anakin would tire out himself quickly with heat and having to repostion his footing. The Force was the biggest advantage, because they got thrown backwards the last time they used it.
8:58 Most amazing ending to a video I've seen in a while. Big ups.
He was referring to a moral high ground, yeah that's it, couldn't be bad writing, George would never (said no one who's seen the Holiday special).
Yep, killing "younglings" is nothing compared with an attempted assassination of a power hungry politician that secretly engineered a war for his own ambitions!
@@joshuafox8856 technically Obi didn't know about the assassination until after the fact, since he was killing Vader's alpha version on the banker planet at the time
Interesting sidenote: some of the translations do heavily imply he does mean the moral high ground. 'Ich stehe deutlich über dir!' sounds way more condecending and reproachful, for example. But yeah, George and dialogue, pretty meh.
The holiday special was a masterpiece! Remember the wookie watching vr porn in front of his family?!
@@madhobbit3577 or that wookie was a good chunk of the dialogue, yet we have no idea what was said because subtitles were just too much
-It's over, i have the high ground!
*2 hours later...*
-PLEASE, stop it! Let me get down, i swear won't come back, i beg you!
If you have the high ground people tend to underestimate you're power
(Here from Shadiversity) This is SUCH an interesting video! It felt like 5 minutes, not 9! Really cool vid!
"Sadly" in ALL 1 vs 1 situation a strong defence is the offence cause even tricks like feints and stuff like that have a timing or a movement that the expert eye can see.
I like how the other guy has a Tokyo ghoul shirt
I do agree with you that highground scenario doesn’t give such a huge advantage. However in the movies, there was also a huge distance between the two. I think that’s what made things difficult.
Honestly, I started binge watching this channel, I have no idea why really, I couldn't even hold a sword, it's just a good watch tbh.
These are the questions worth asking.