Yes, and you must understand that anyone who rejects Fr. Behr's or Met. Zizioulas on the Monarchy of the Father is either an Arian or a Modalist heretic (as most western talking heads are, which is despicable).
I can't say I understood everything Fr Behr commented on, but the parts I *think* I understood were thought provoking. And I certainly appreciated Fr Behr's eager interest in the discussion. (I think it was more than just his accent that reminded me of Sir Anthony Buzzard.)
Causality works backwards... though odd as it may appear the prospective fulfillment of certain prophecy is the cause, whereas the utterance of prophecy is the result, although it temporally precedes the event itself.... it is the future that determines the past. -Tzamalikos
Thanks Sam again for this excellent conversation. I do wonder how Fr. John Behr understands the theophanies in the Hebrew Scriptures and whether like Dr. Beau Branson they are taken to be the “one subject: The Risen Crucified Lord Jesus Christ”. Fr. John Behr seems to be saying that before the Crucifixion and Resurrection you would know him only as a man yet afterwards reading the events in the light of the Scriptures you come to see him as the Word and Son of God.
Yes, even I was left a little unclear one whether Fr JB affirmed and denied the person presence of the preincarnate Jesus in the theophanies. I mostly got the impression that he did not affirm that.
Man, you listen to people like Fr. John Behr and you quickly realise that the Christian message you were taught as children in pretty much all denominations wasn't Christianity at all
Very interesting discussion, thanks Sam. Question, does Fr Behr hold to Jesus as part of the Trinity? Maybe I missed something. The stuff about eternal vs creature time was a mind bender for sure!
Fr John, can you please translate more of the Fathers, we don’t need yet another translation of the heritic Origen or yet another repeated translation on St Athanasious’s “On the Oncarnation”.
The interview's commentary starting at 1:19:00 is dead on. Turning to the Church Fathers makes re-reading the New Testament stranger, but also more enriching.
seems the diff between Origen and st Max logoi, is theyre already actualized in origen ( Tzamalikos, alludes in his books same), and in the incarnation christ became passible ; meaning there is or should be something to the temporal realm b4 getting lost in Gods activities / energies of immortality, as we dont become God by essence, but by grace
Another interesting discussion. Oh the politics of those early Christian “bishops“ and their presbyteres! Not having read origins “First Principles“, it sounds like he was describing more a triad than a Trinity? Fr. Behr consistently broke down the chapters into “God, Christ, the S/spirit“, which seems to be a differentiation between God and Christ. I found it interesting that Fr. Behr interprets Origen's understanding of the “beginning“ in John 1:1 as not being connected to the Genesis beginning? Also, that “the Word“ in John 1:1 is a reference to Jesus “after the incarnation“ and not to a “pre-incarnate“ being.
I’m somewhat used to being dazzled by the teachings of St Iranaeus when presented by Fr Behr. I didn’t expect this from Origen, l’ enfant terrible of the Orthodox world whom many hate to love or live to hate.
Reminds me of reading Harold Bloom's "bible as literature" little blurb on Gospel of John. He read the opening poem as an anti-semitic replacement for the Genesis creation narrative 😂.
My brother in Christ, may God be with you all the days of your life. May God lead you to His love and place for you in this age, whatever that may be, in the walls of the Church. May you come to know yourself as you are known to Him through love, humility, prayer, and grace. May things work out according to your innermost nature and goodness in the end. Amen, amen, amen.
A fine interview though I would suggest not interrupting your guest when they are midstream in sharing or fleshing out an idea. You do it throughout the interview.
Tzamalikos says that we are an embroidery not a duality. Body-soul are lower ontological states compared to nous/spirit/mind... Tzamalikos writes: "However, human souls are not exactly plants: man is endowed also with the 'nous that comes from without, namely, from God the Logos, and the soul is endowed with the potential to transform itself to nous. Sooner or later, the soul will no longer be soul: she will have metamorphosed to mind by means of its free moral action. But when a soul will have been overtaken by the spirit/nous, of which she had been a 'priest' in the temple of the body, a new day will have dawned, a new existential state will have come to pass."
Why are some people so preoccupied with these 'chrch Fathers'! Jude, Jesus half brother said way back in 55AD "THE FAITH WAS DELIVERED ONCE FOR ALL TIME TO THE SAINTS" ( Jude 3) That being the case nearly all the apostles in thier epistles WARNED the brothers that there would arise in the congregations, clever men who would corrupt the true teachings & draew away discples after themselves' Please read Acts 20:28-30. I ttim 4:1,2. 2 Peter 2:1-3. 1 John 4:1. Sadly most 'orthodox' teachings fulfill these warnings!
Old Testament is the correct Scriptural designation: 2 Corinthians 3. 14 palaias diathekes . It seems rather silly to say it is a problem having one book containing the whole canon of inspired Scripture, as if the canon itself (Bible) were the invention of the printing press.
So when the complete New Testament become part of the Canon? And how were Christians understanding the complete biblical word of God before it became part of the Canon?
Why are there so many lunatics in the Orthodox Church British and American. I'm an Englishman living in Russia 🇷🇺 Patriarch Kirill is a great and Godly man.Why are there so few like him.
☦️🤝☪️First off, repent after the father educated you. Secondly, Fr. Behr is the one who represents Orthodoxy in the west, since all Church fathers believed in subordination & it is the exact view of our Nicene Creed, not Tuggy's. The Father is the One God - it is His essence that the share, it is His authority that is given to them, it is His will that they are co-equal with Him in power over creation & also by identity of essence. Christ is his Father's Logos (in God the Speech is a being not an attribute as it is with us!). And, no, actually the fathers already addressed & solved your so called problem, since we worship Christ & the Spirit, because only through them we worship the Father, since they are His "parts" so to speak, inseparable from Him, not lesser in divinity (the same essence cannot be greater than itself), but the Father is greater in glory, rank & role - they are *His* (btw you didn't reply to my argument about the Hebrew text, only said it is wrong - I could teach you how the Hebrew text works, of which I am fluent, you westerners constantly don't understand what it says). Re-edited: Fr. Behr discredited himself when he defamed Russia & his holiness Patriarch Kirill, so he is dismissed by me now.
You say: “The Father is greater in glory” “And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.” John 17:5
Every time I listen to Father John I find myself entering more into the mystery of Christ, and leaving behind my own small theological concepts.
Wow. How profound
Absolutely. Same here.
Yes, and you must understand that anyone who rejects Fr. Behr's or Met. Zizioulas on the Monarchy of the Father is either an Arian or a Modalist heretic (as most western talking heads are, which is despicable).
Babylon mystery religion!!!!
Excellent video! I could listen to Fr Behr all day.
Lots on the BoM have really cheered Behr and now I'm seeing why. Very much enjoying him. Thanks for introducing him to me Sam.
You need to step up your beard game to compete PVK
BoM?
@@Joeonline26Bridges of Meaning discord server, associated with Paul VanderKlay.
this was actually a mind-bender! it does bring the gospel into much fresher perspective!
Thanks for listening!
So happy for you Sam, big get for your channel. Great discussion.
Fabulous conversation, love Fr. Behr and thank you Sam for your inquiring mind. Really enjoyed this.
Loved it. Thanks, Sam. And Father Behr.
super heart
So excited for this! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
What a treat getting to hear Fr Behr speak on Origen!
I can't say I understood everything Fr Behr commented on, but the parts I *think* I understood were thought provoking. And I certainly appreciated Fr Behr's eager interest in the discussion. (I think it was more than just his accent that reminded me of Sir Anthony Buzzard.)
Origen also explicitly uses Fr. Behr’s interpretation of “ages” and “days” in his homilies on Judges.
Great content and great interview! Thanks
thanks for listening!
Wow, making myself do my chores before watching this as a HUGE reward. Super eager to hear this!
Fat Deal. Need to know information 🤔
Excellent Sam
He’s showing you the way.
@@WhiteStoneName Who's "you"! :)
It's always about pronouns... :)
So good! Love Fr. Behr ❤
Fr. Behr is my favourite lecturer at Aberdeen - always makes me think more deeply!
Agreed! Thanks for listening
Wow what a privilege to have him as a lecturer!
Superb interview, thanks so much.
Great interview. Its always a pleasure to hear Fr John Behr. Would be great if you could have him again!
Thanks for listening!
Really enjoyed this as well as your ongoing series on the church fathers. Thanks so much for sharing your work.
Thanks for listening!
Thanks.
wonderful converzation! one i’ll definitely be returning to again. (and mad cool, Sam! you’re giving Julian a run for his money haha)
thank you, sirs!
Causality works backwards... though odd as it may appear the prospective fulfillment of certain prophecy is the cause, whereas the utterance of prophecy is the result, although it temporally precedes the event itself.... it is the future that determines the past. -Tzamalikos
Thanks Sam again for this excellent conversation. I do wonder how Fr. John Behr understands the theophanies in the Hebrew Scriptures and whether like Dr. Beau Branson they are taken to be the “one subject: The Risen Crucified Lord Jesus Christ”. Fr. John Behr seems to be saying that before the Crucifixion and Resurrection you would know him only as a man yet afterwards reading the events in the light of the Scriptures you come to see him as the Word and Son of God.
Yes, even I was left a little unclear one whether Fr JB affirmed and denied the person presence of the preincarnate Jesus in the theophanies. I mostly got the impression that he did not affirm that.
Man, you listen to people like Fr. John Behr and you quickly realise that the Christian message you were taught as children in pretty much all denominations wasn't Christianity at all
Brilliant!!!+
@1:12:00 the point about causation working backwards between eternity and temporality. Then he gives the Isaiah and the Cross example🤯🤯
Agreed. Final causality is a paradox, not a contradiction.
Very interesting discussion, thanks Sam. Question, does Fr Behr hold to Jesus as part of the Trinity? Maybe I missed something. The stuff about eternal vs creature time was a mind bender for sure!
Fr John, can you please translate more of the Fathers, we don’t need yet another translation of the heritic Origen or yet another repeated translation on St Athanasious’s “On the Oncarnation”.
The interview's commentary starting at 1:19:00 is dead on. Turning to the Church Fathers makes re-reading the New Testament stranger, but also more enriching.
Thanks for listening. I think it's best if the NT feels both strange and familiar at the same time.
seems the diff between Origen and st Max logoi, is theyre already actualized in origen ( Tzamalikos, alludes in his books same), and in the incarnation christ became passible ; meaning there is or should be something to the temporal realm b4 getting lost in Gods activities / energies of immortality, as we dont become God by essence, but by grace
Another interesting discussion. Oh the politics of those early Christian “bishops“ and their presbyteres!
Not having read origins “First Principles“, it sounds like he was describing more a triad than a Trinity? Fr. Behr consistently broke down the chapters into “God, Christ, the S/spirit“, which seems to be a differentiation between God and Christ.
I found it interesting that Fr. Behr interprets Origen's understanding of the “beginning“ in John 1:1 as not being connected to the Genesis beginning?
Also, that “the Word“ in John 1:1 is a reference to Jesus “after the incarnation“ and not to a “pre-incarnate“ being.
First!
2764th
@@EmJay2022 😂
I’m somewhat used to being dazzled by the teachings of St Iranaeus when presented by Fr Behr. I didn’t expect this from Origen, l’ enfant terrible of the Orthodox world whom many hate to love or live to hate.
Hope you enjoyed
Reminds me of reading Harold Bloom's "bible as literature" little blurb on Gospel of John. He read the opening poem as an anti-semitic replacement for the Genesis creation narrative 😂.
Please pray for me, a homosexual.
Always
My brother in Christ, may God be with you all the days of your life. May God lead you to His love and place for you in this age, whatever that may be, in the walls of the Church. May you come to know yourself as you are known to Him through love, humility, prayer, and grace. May things work out according to your innermost nature and goodness in the end. Amen, amen, amen.
You’ve been rolling out videos like donuts at Krispy Kreme. Lol. Can’t wait to listen!
Except more delicious.
A fine interview though I would suggest not interrupting your guest when they are midstream in sharing or fleshing out an idea. You do it throughout the interview.
Tzamalikos says that we are an embroidery not a duality. Body-soul are lower ontological states compared to nous/spirit/mind... Tzamalikos writes: "However, human souls are not exactly plants: man is endowed also with the 'nous that comes from without, namely, from God the Logos, and the soul is endowed with the potential to transform itself to nous. Sooner or later, the soul will no longer be soul: she will have metamorphosed to mind by means of its free moral action. But when a soul will have been overtaken by the spirit/nous, of which she had been a 'priest' in the temple of the body, a new day will have dawned, a new existential state will have come to pass."
I agree. Stop calling it the Old Testament.
Convinced
I’ve been trying not to call it the Old Testament ever since I heard Fr. Behr talk about this 3 years ago.
No.
Wow. Enlightened
Who is the author he mentions on 2 volumes Revelation
Why are some people so preoccupied with these 'chrch Fathers'! Jude, Jesus half brother said way back in 55AD "THE FAITH WAS DELIVERED ONCE FOR ALL TIME TO THE SAINTS" ( Jude 3) That being the case nearly all the apostles in thier epistles WARNED the brothers that there would arise in the congregations, clever men who would corrupt the true teachings & draew away discples after themselves' Please read Acts 20:28-30. I ttim 4:1,2. 2 Peter 2:1-3. 1 John 4:1. Sadly most 'orthodox' teachings fulfill these warnings!
I don't fully understand the "paratext" topic.
Christ is LORD
Old Testament is the correct Scriptural designation: 2 Corinthians 3. 14 palaias diathekes . It seems rather silly to say it is a problem having one book containing the whole canon of inspired Scripture, as if the canon itself (Bible) were the invention of the printing press.
So when the complete New Testament become part of the Canon? And how were Christians understanding the complete biblical word of God before it became part of the Canon?
You ever tried growing a beard, Sam?
Ya it really doesn't look good. I tried growing a dad beard one time, never again.
Wise choice! I'm so tired of seeing everyone with beards. It looks really dumb (my opinion)! Great vid!
Why are there so many lunatics in the Orthodox Church British and American. I'm an Englishman living in Russia 🇷🇺 Patriarch Kirill is a great and Godly man.Why are there so few like him.
☦️🤝☪️First off, repent after the father educated you. Secondly, Fr. Behr is the one who represents Orthodoxy in the west, since all Church fathers believed in subordination & it is the exact view of our Nicene Creed, not Tuggy's. The Father is the One God - it is His essence that the share, it is His authority that is given to them, it is His will that they are co-equal with Him in power over creation & also by identity of essence. Christ is his Father's Logos (in God the Speech is a being not an attribute as it is with us!). And, no, actually the fathers already addressed & solved your so called problem, since we worship Christ & the Spirit, because only through them we worship the Father, since they are His "parts" so to speak, inseparable from Him, not lesser in divinity (the same essence cannot be greater than itself), but the Father is greater in glory, rank & role - they are *His* (btw you didn't reply to my argument about the Hebrew text, only said it is wrong - I could teach you how the Hebrew text works, of which I am fluent, you westerners constantly don't understand what it says). Re-edited: Fr. Behr discredited himself when he defamed Russia & his holiness Patriarch Kirill, so he is dismissed by me now.
You say: “The Father is greater in glory”
“And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.” John 17:5
@@bman5257 So? It only proves the Father is superior - the glory belongs to Him 1st then to the Son. Christ is His Logos, He is the whole.
quit talking over each other. i can’t comprehend anything with points constantly being interrupted.
One of the downsides of zoom. Thanks for your patience.
You talk too much! Let your more knowledgeable guest speak!