In the nineties, Dutch people started to have a paastak, easter branch. It’s a decorated bald twisted branch from corylus avellana 'Contorta’, a cultivar of the common hazel. Now almost everyone has one. A tradition was born out of nowhere. Things like that apparently happen.
Follow you on Tiktok and absolutely love the longer form on education. I love how two opposing sides are talking, explaining, and dispelling misinformation. I am here for this journey and can't wait to learn more!
The funny thing of this podcast that I learn for the first time about the discussions in early Christendom, and notice myself taking a stance. I agree with Arius for example.
I am very grateful that medieval artists went with the hare and not the cockroach (which also mates once and gives birth multiple times). The Easter Roach is a hideous thought.
edit: nvm he mentioned that, commented before watching the video What's kinda interesting is that the connection between easter and Ishtar or for that matter Eostre can only be made if you're speaking a germanic or angloid language. The word for easter in swedish, spanish, romanian, etc. are just variations of "Pesach"(passover) e.g. påsk, Paști, Pascua, Пасха(pronounces paskha) etc.
I am always curious about what books "made the cut" and which did not, so I am now curious as to what extra books are in the Tewahedo Bible, and what the differences are. Great job Dans, as always!
I learned quite organically that rabbits can have two differently conceived litters when I started keeping rabbits (some sort of large albino breed lol). Was quite surprising the first time it happened. This was pre-Google days so I had to go ask the person who sold them to me and he was like “oh yeah, they do that” lol.
That logo :)! 😊. You choose it like this on purpose. Is doing his job well, buy i believe data and dogma can blend and complement each other😅. Off topic, I'm just throwing it out there; I feel like one of you knows table tennis 😂
congratulations for the podcast, it is a great source of data and bibliography, I would love to know what is the academic position regarding "Anglo-Isrealism", the belief that the lost tribes of Israel are today's Europe that also includes the United States and England as sons of Joseph, Ephraim, and Manasseh. thank you so much.
An episode on the basic claim of 12 tribes & then all the "lost" ones would be a good foundation I've always wondered! What little kernels of historicity if any are there? What does the archaeology show?
There are sections dedicated to the academic view of British Israelism and the Ten Lost Tribes on each of their respective wikipedia pages. Although very different in origins, the LDS Movement has a similar claim. "Today Israelites are found in all countries of the world. Many of these people do not know that they are descended from the ancient house of Israel," is from the Gospel Principles manual. I would love to hear the Dans' take on the similarities between the two movements.
Tuesday is named after the god Tīw’/Týr, the norse god of single combat, So taco tuesday is about the guy who sacrifices his hand to the monstrous wolf Fenrir. This is a warning not to get between me and my tacos.
David Wray suggests early Christians quickly attached astrological meaning to the crucifixion and resurrection, associating it with the sign of Jonah. Could Lepus, the bird changed to rabbit, have been transferred into the celebration because of astrological beliefs?
By the time Dan Brown's book and the associated hype came out, i had already read Holy Blood Holy Grail. So when I read the Da Vinci Code to see what the fuss was about, my thought was, "I thought everyone already knew that Jesus married Mary Magdalene and moved to the south of France. Ho hum."
@@davidfrisken1617 Well, it's not plagiarism if it's demonstrated historical fact. I think Baigent et al. kinda set themselves up on that front. At least, if I were Dan Brown and were accused by them of plagiarism, that's what I'd claim.
When I was growing up as a Catholic, the hypostatic union was the first thing I was cognitively aware of that did not make sense and pushed me away from believing. Good times 😂
@@danemiljoshua There's a Danel that shows up in Ugaritic literature circa 1300 BC, but from what I gather, there's not really anything directly connecting him to the Biblical Daniel. He might be referenced in Ezekiel 28:3 though
According to John J. Collins, it's not entirely certain how the Exilic figure developed. Scholars are quite certain that there was a legendary regional "Danel" (as @Erimgard13 noted), and that this "Danel" is likely even referenced 3 times-all within regional contexts (Ezekiel 14:14, 14:20, and 28:3). It's notable that Ezekiel pairs him with 2 other ancient, legendary non-Israelites who were faithful to God (resulting in "Noah, Danel, and Job"). So, the later Biblical prophet may have developed out of stories told from this tradition, or he may have been an independent prophet who accrued stories from this tradition due to his name, OR the prophet may have nothing to do with the legendary Danel at all (it is, after all, a very good name).
it would be interesting if there was a tradition of Christianity in which the Holy Spirit was the first, then became the Father and Son at the same time when Mary became pregnant
That was a let down and cleared nothing concerning the contradictory Church history concerning Nicea. Nothing is explained by stating contradictory information such as the objectors were exiled, when they were not, and leaving out that the main instigator against Arianism was himself later exiled. Then simply ignoring Constantine remaining an Arian until death and the same with his family and offspring, and that most prominent characters such as both Eusebius, remained Arian after the Council along with the whole "Barbarian" world.
I do think it's a bit funny they want to say it's pagan because it happens right after the spring equinox, like only pagans had these sort of festivals. They are ignoring that Jewish pasach, as far as I understand it, likely comes from various agraraian and pastoral celebrations that they had with them that got developed into what we would know as Pasach. It's like there is a "pagan" origin, it's just that it's the ancestor or how you would call it to second temple judaism
About what time period do Scholars agree general human literacy started? Was religion born out of only human brains who were literate? Even now the old game of “telephone” with a group of any kids around the world proves verbal messages only maintain about 15% of original meaning.
No I don't believe religion was born out of human literacy, my reason for thinking this is the many ancient religions/customs/beliefs of the native aborigines in Australia, or am I miss understanding your question?
@@pebystroll -Thank you. No that’s part of it for sure. So if not literate, verbal communication usually ends up with about a 15% original meaning verification. That’s a lot of changed meaning. Thanks again.
@Moontrack yes absolutely, if you're interested I think Bart Ehrman covers some studies to do with verbal accuracy through story telling in some of his lectures, I think if you Google it you should be able to find it
The earliest known writing was invented around 3400 B.C.E. in an area called Sumer near the Persian Gulf. For context, one of the oldest temples is Gobekli Tepe (in modern Turkey) which is dated between c. 9500 and 8000 BCE. So definitely religion predates literacy by a lot.
I would imagine that for centralized religions like Judaism and other middle eastern religions that literacy played a massive role, but for European religions like Greek and Norse mythology you can't make the same argument because they never were centralized or "controlled" so writing them down never changed anything.
Accuracy is important in scholarship, even if it flies in the face of important beliefs. But allowing a need for accuracy to get in the way of enjoying Ian McShane/Neil Gaiman? That's sacrilege.
Atheist Dan’s point about the Christians “stealing” Passover highlights a frustration I have with the “skeptic” circles and even academics. Jewish thought and practices are just too familiar to be sexy as explanations for Christian thought and practices. We’ve gotta look elsewhere, even when it’s staring us in the face.
Man the way you were going I thought the easter bunny was going to pop ou an egg that would hatch Dan Brown, You forgot about saint chocos who came all the way from the Maya to prophesize that 1600 years later there woukd be crispy brown edible bunnies that had hormonal effects on women. I think the point about Easter is that people had a need to coonect some traditions to christianity cause, what the hell, life is boring anyway. Those zombies only oaraded around for three days and went underground, they needed something to spice things up.
Arius was less goofy than his opponents. Not saying much. But nit saying nothing. As for eggs and bunnies. Dan has slipped into the "absence of text is evidence of absence of belief" fallacy again. The incorporation of eggs and bunnies into the Christian Easter nonsense still smacks of the re-rationalization of existing and therefore necessarily pagan practice.
It’s not that they have special access to the truth, it’s that when he refers to academic scholarship he’s specifically referring to people who are trying to trace the provenance of different religious and philosophical concepts by making use of available archeological and textual evidence while also attempting to suspend the presumption of the truth of their own beliefs. This is intended to stand in contrast to dogmatism, which is used to refer to practices like mere assertion, circular arguments, and motivated reasoning. There’s never going to be a perfect process in studying history. There are many things we can never know for certain, but when there is disagreement among academic scholars ideally you can at least analyze the arguments based on their supporting evidence.
@@odiram atheists Biblical scholars aren't as unbiased as you think and their presuppositions do play a role in their reasoning: its laughable that only believing Scholars are doing conformation bias scholarship.
@@davidjanbaz7728 I would not claim that anyone has achieved freedom from bias, and we all have presuppositions that are going to inform the kinds of claims we’re likely to make or give credence to, but the point isn’t about anyone being free from bias. The point in mentioning a scholarly consensus though is to make a distinction as to the methods of argumentation supporting a claim. For instance, with respect to this video if you have an argument contrary to the scholarly consensus regarding the origins of Easter, the purposes of the council of Nicaea, or of the formation of the biblical canon, then I would be interested to see the evidence supporting your arguments.
I would love to see the evidence suppporting the historical jesus other than the bible tells me so. Also where is the evidence for parthenogenisis in rabbits.I dont get it they are mammals.
14:11 Okay, so basically Easter was a celebration of Eostre in the same way that Taco Tuesday is a celebration of Tyr. Got it
Being an atheist, this perfectly explains why I get the runs after eating them!
In the nineties, Dutch people started to have a paastak, easter branch. It’s a decorated bald twisted branch from corylus avellana 'Contorta’, a cultivar of the common hazel. Now almost everyone has one. A tradition was born out of nowhere. Things like that apparently happen.
Follow you on Tiktok and absolutely love the longer form on education. I love how two opposing sides are talking, explaining, and dispelling misinformation. I am here for this journey and can't wait to learn more!
The funny thing of this podcast that I learn for the first time about the discussions in early Christendom, and notice myself taking a stance. I agree with Arius for example.
Love the podcast...Love you two. Love the content. Very thought-provoking and educational.
I am very grateful that medieval artists went with the hare and not the cockroach (which also mates once and gives birth multiple times). The Easter Roach is a hideous thought.
"The name Easter actually comes from Ishtar"
* Megan Lewis intensifies *
edit: nvm he mentioned that, commented before watching the video
What's kinda interesting is that the connection between easter and Ishtar or for that matter Eostre can only be made if you're speaking a germanic or angloid language. The word for easter in swedish, spanish, romanian, etc. are just variations of "Pesach"(passover) e.g. påsk, Paști, Pascua, Пасха(pronounces paskha) etc.
@@saichanik Well, duh! The Germans just know the TRUTH™! And the Brits cribbed from us.
I can't stop loving this podcast! Hope Dr. McClellan comes to our podcast on July!!
Please tell us more about the Ethiopian Christianity stance
In my family we observe Wester. Wester eggs, wester bonnets, Wester Bunny (half brother of the Easter Bunny; he lives at the west pole).😊
I am always curious about what books "made the cut" and which did not, so I am now curious as to what extra books are in the Tewahedo Bible, and what the differences are. Great job Dans, as always!
I learned quite organically that rabbits can have two differently conceived litters when I started keeping rabbits (some sort of large albino breed lol). Was quite surprising the first time it happened. This was pre-Google days so I had to go ask the person who sold them to me and he was like “oh yeah, they do that” lol.
You guys are an ideal podcast team with a great format.
Ishtar is the fertility god. That's why they have eggs on Easter. It was so they would have children to sacrifice by December 25th.
Just discovered you and immediately fallen in love. This is so good about my knowledge and my spirituality. 🦆
You guys sponsor one of the best services I've come across on the internet.
You were done brown! and rolling in it!
Awesome 👏
Wonderful episode! Really loving this podcast so much.
14:11 Sheffield Wednesday is actually a Christian appropriation of a pagan football club that venerated Odin
The word association Eostre of "Easter" makes sense. How does the word Pascha fit into the naming of Easter? Thank you.
That logo :)! 😊. You choose it like this on purpose. Is doing his job well, buy i believe data and dogma can blend and complement each other😅.
Off topic, I'm just throwing it out there; I feel like one of you knows table tennis 😂
congratulations for the podcast, it is a great source of data and bibliography, I would love to know what is the academic position regarding "Anglo-Isrealism", the belief that the lost tribes of Israel are today's Europe that also includes the United States and England as sons of Joseph, Ephraim, and Manasseh. thank you so much.
An episode on the basic claim of 12 tribes & then all the "lost" ones would be a good foundation I've always wondered! What little kernels of historicity if any are there? What does the archaeology show?
There are sections dedicated to the academic view of British Israelism and the Ten Lost Tribes on each of their respective wikipedia pages. Although very different in origins, the LDS Movement has a similar claim. "Today Israelites are found in all countries of the world. Many of these people do not know that they are descended from the ancient house of Israel," is from the Gospel Principles manual. I would love to hear the Dans' take on the similarities between the two movements.
Tuesday is named after the god Tīw’/Týr, the norse god of single combat, So taco tuesday is about the guy who sacrifices his hand to the monstrous wolf Fenrir.
This is a warning not to get between me and my tacos.
Fredagkos in norwegian
David Wray suggests early Christians quickly attached astrological meaning to the crucifixion and resurrection, associating it with the sign of Jonah. Could Lepus, the bird changed to rabbit, have been transferred into the celebration because of astrological beliefs?
Just hearing the intro, I surmise this is why eggnog replaced Christmas punch.
By the time Dan Brown's book and the associated hype came out, i had already read Holy Blood Holy Grail. So when I read the Da Vinci Code to see what the fuss was about, my thought was, "I thought everyone already knew that Jesus married Mary Magdalene and moved to the south of France. Ho hum."
I was given Dan Brown's book and very shortly into it the plagiarism was obvious and I put it aside for 2 years because of the blatant ripoff.
@@davidfrisken1617 Well, it's not plagiarism if it's demonstrated historical fact. I think Baigent et al. kinda set themselves up on that front. At least, if I were Dan Brown and were accused by them of plagiarism, that's what I'd claim.
How about swoon theory, as in Schonfield's 'The Passover Plot', weighed against the idea of an actual resurrection?
I remember reading that book over 50yrs ago.
Now you have created a very fine new urban legend: there were NAZIS in the Council of Nicea! And they ended up in a fistfight with SANTA! 😂
45:30 I mean, to this day, the Catholic Church still refers to church laws as Canon Law
were there Gold Plates
When I was growing up as a Catholic, the hypostatic union was the first thing I was cognitively aware of that did not make sense and pushed me away from believing. Good times 😂
Daniel is a popular biblical name. Who was Daniel? A question for Dan and Dan about Dan.
Maybe a famous person lived during the Exile or a fictional character and there were many myths built around this character of apocalyptic visions etc
@@danemiljoshua There's a Danel that shows up in Ugaritic literature circa 1300 BC, but from what I gather, there's not really anything directly connecting him to the Biblical Daniel. He might be referenced in Ezekiel 28:3 though
According to John J. Collins, it's not entirely certain how the Exilic figure developed. Scholars are quite certain that there was a legendary regional "Danel" (as @Erimgard13 noted), and that this "Danel" is likely even referenced 3 times-all within regional contexts (Ezekiel 14:14, 14:20, and 28:3). It's notable that Ezekiel pairs him with 2 other ancient, legendary non-Israelites who were faithful to God (resulting in "Noah, Danel, and Job"). So, the later Biblical prophet may have developed out of stories told from this tradition, or he may have been an independent prophet who accrued stories from this tradition due to his name, OR the prophet may have nothing to do with the legendary Danel at all (it is, after all, a very good name).
So when the council got together, but decided jesus was a prophet and not god, then that's what we would all be believing now instead of the trinity?
Would you agree that most efforts to find the historical Jesus in the Gospels is an attempt to impose univocality onto the texts?
@@ChristianRescue I think most attempts to find the historical Jesus are apologetic in nature
what about Jesus in relation to the cult of Mithras? Is that a Dan Brown thing too?
Myself also Dan
Doesn't the Bible teach that the Dans will take control of the world?
it would be interesting if there was a tradition of Christianity in which the Holy Spirit was the first, then became the Father and Son at the same time when Mary became pregnant
That was a let down and cleared nothing concerning the contradictory Church history concerning Nicea.
Nothing is explained by stating contradictory information such as the objectors were exiled, when they were not, and leaving out that the main instigator against Arianism was himself later exiled.
Then simply ignoring Constantine remaining an Arian until death and the same with his family and offspring, and that most prominent characters such as both Eusebius, remained Arian after the Council along with the whole "Barbarian" world.
Another damned Dan!
I do think it's a bit funny they want to say it's pagan because it happens right after the spring equinox, like only pagans had these sort of festivals.
They are ignoring that Jewish pasach, as far as I understand it, likely comes from various agraraian and pastoral celebrations that they had with them that got developed into what we would know as Pasach.
It's like there is a "pagan" origin, it's just that it's the ancestor or how you would call it to second temple judaism
Hungarian Easter: "húsvét" the taking of the meat
About what time period do Scholars agree general human literacy started? Was religion born out of only human brains who were literate? Even now the old game of “telephone” with a group of any kids around the world proves verbal messages only maintain about 15% of original meaning.
No I don't believe religion was born out of human literacy, my reason for thinking this is the many ancient religions/customs/beliefs of the native aborigines in Australia, or am I miss understanding your question?
@@pebystroll -Thank you. No that’s part of it for sure. So if not literate, verbal communication usually ends up with about a 15% original meaning verification. That’s a lot of changed meaning. Thanks again.
@Moontrack yes absolutely, if you're interested I think Bart Ehrman covers some studies to do with verbal accuracy through story telling in some of his lectures, I think if you Google it you should be able to find it
The earliest known writing was invented around 3400 B.C.E. in an area called Sumer near the Persian Gulf.
For context, one of the oldest temples is Gobekli Tepe (in modern Turkey) which is dated between c. 9500 and 8000 BCE. So definitely religion predates literacy by a lot.
I would imagine that for centralized religions like Judaism and other middle eastern religions that literacy played a massive role, but for European religions like Greek and Norse mythology you can't make the same argument because they never were centralized or "controlled" so writing them down never changed anything.
No, Easter comes from sister!🫣Don’t hit me!😈
Can you guys enjoy the series American Gods, or are the scholarly inaccuracies too distracting to you?
Accuracy is important in scholarship, even if it flies in the face of important beliefs. But allowing a need for accuracy to get in the way of enjoying Ian McShane/Neil Gaiman? That's sacrilege.
Odin was crucified? Did the Norse gods come after Christianity?
I thought he was hanged. I thought that's why he was called the God of the gallows. 🤔
@@daniellong7926 Yes, hanged. Also, the oldest known specific reference to Odin is post-Christ, I believe.
Atheist Dan’s point about the Christians “stealing” Passover highlights a frustration I have with the “skeptic” circles and even academics. Jewish thought and practices are just too familiar to be sexy as explanations for Christian thought and practices. We’ve gotta look elsewhere, even when it’s staring us in the face.
Man the way you were going I thought the easter bunny was going to pop ou an egg that would hatch Dan Brown,
You forgot about saint chocos who came all the way from the Maya to prophesize that 1600 years later there woukd be crispy brown edible bunnies that had hormonal effects on women.
I think the point about Easter is that people had a need to coonect some traditions to christianity cause, what the hell, life is boring anyway. Those zombies only oaraded around for three days and went underground, they needed something to spice things up.
Arius was less goofy than his opponents. Not saying much. But nit saying nothing.
As for eggs and bunnies. Dan has slipped into the "absence of text is evidence of absence of belief" fallacy again. The incorporation of eggs and bunnies into the Christian Easter nonsense still smacks of the re-rationalization of existing and therefore necessarily pagan practice.
Christians were converts from pre christian.religions. Those religions did not vanish. It went into christianity.
🦛 hippopotamus union
Easter is not Passover. It is Firstfruits. Get with the program
.
So only scholars have the "truth"? Even when they conflict?
It’s not that they have special access to the truth, it’s that when he refers to academic scholarship he’s specifically referring to people who are trying to trace the provenance of different religious and philosophical concepts by making use of available archeological and textual evidence while also attempting to suspend the presumption of the truth of their own beliefs. This is intended to stand in contrast to dogmatism, which is used to refer to practices like mere assertion, circular arguments, and motivated reasoning.
There’s never going to be a perfect process in studying history. There are many things we can never know for certain, but when there is disagreement among academic scholars ideally you can at least analyze the arguments based on their supporting evidence.
@@odiram atheists Biblical scholars aren't as unbiased as you think and their presuppositions do play a role in their reasoning: its laughable that only believing Scholars are doing conformation bias scholarship.
@@davidjanbaz7728 I would not claim that anyone has achieved freedom from bias, and we all have presuppositions that are going to inform the kinds of claims we’re likely to make or give credence to, but the point isn’t about anyone being free from bias. The point in mentioning a scholarly consensus though is to make a distinction as to the methods of argumentation supporting a claim.
For instance, with respect to this video if you have an argument contrary to the scholarly consensus regarding the origins of Easter, the purposes of the council of Nicaea, or of the formation of the biblical canon, then I would be interested to see the evidence supporting your arguments.
I would love to see the evidence suppporting the historical jesus other than the bible tells me so. Also where is the evidence for parthenogenisis in rabbits.I dont get it they are mammals.
Hi ive got the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus The Christ ~~~ The Akashic Records
Love this kind of examination, but this is just too hard to watch. Does everything have to be a joke? an unfunny joke at that?