Great vid Sir. I completely agree with your assessments of toughness and ease on the budget. Our eggmobiles are made out of poly-eth and wiggle wire; and have held up no problem through our regular and sustained 40-50mph high plains Texas winds.
please let me understand clearly about double layers, it's mean you use 2 plastics? do you use uv plastics? how many percents of uv protector? sory.. i'm too much asking. ^_^
Thanks for these videos! Quick question...do we put the first layer of poly on fully with the wiggle wire and then install the second layer with another layer of wiggle wire? OR, do we instal both layers at once, and then put on the wiggle wire just once??
Often if sections are airtight you will need a tube to jumper the fan air flow into each section. There is also a pressure switch you can buy that senses the pressure between the layers and only turns on fan when pressure drops so the fan only runs as needed and cuts off when the pressure in the gap is back to normal. This also lowers the amount of condensation between the layers and also lowers heat loss from constantly blowing your warm air into the cold gap.
Most wiggle wire and channel we have seen is the same approximate size, the channels are normally 1.25" on the outside, and 1/16" thick metal so roughly 1 1/8" inside size
obviously an endorser for wiggle wire...easiest most inexpensive way is using wood...you can either use planks with a 3/4 gap between them or a larger plank like a 2x4 with a channel cut into it with a router. either way the plastic is rolled past and a piece of wood ripped down to the appropriate size and pushed in...it replaces the expensive wiggler wire
Out of curiosity, when using the blower to make an insulated layer, is there an outlet for the air pumped in between the sheets..Or is it leaky enough that there's an inlet only? Also, is the second/outer polyfilm layer intentionally made a little looser than the first/inner?
Hi icarus, There is no outlet for the air. Some of it will leak out, but for the most part it is pretty static, keeping the blower on keeps it pressurized. The outer layer can be a little bit more "baggy" than the inside layer. We usually like to have both layers with some tension on them, but allow them to sag slightly between the ribs when deflated. Usually this still entails a lot of tugging and tensioning to get it tight enough.
It's insane that they don't sell this stuff over here in the UK. Just one of many random things that somehow didn't make it over the pond! The cost of getting it imported makes it way more expensive than the other type of locking method you mentioned.
You may have found a solution by now but in case you didnt. wiggle wire and c-section is available in the uk. Its taken literally years for the penny to drop here when the states has been using it for decades ;) We`ll probably be well into the next century before double poly catches on lol
You should also look into controlling the blower with a differential pressure switch, running it 24/7 is a waste of electrical power. It also allows the use of 12v blowers and offgrid installation.
Hello, thanks for posting this video. It helps in getting clarifying some of my confusions. Thanks. However, i have few questions 1) What about hot climates. Once we infilate double layer there will be air inside always and in high summer temperatures the air will get hot and makes the inside climate more hot. Could you please clarify it? 2) We clip the wiggle spring before inflating between the layers. I think wiggle spring will lock transfer of air if wiggle is installed also at upper pipe. So, if we use double layer poly then we must install the wiggle at the bottom so that the air reaches all places between the layers? 3) Whats the dimensions of your house and how much time it took to pump in and fill the air? 4) Are you still conducting webinars? Kindly respond.
Nate, I understand the concept, but where is wiggle wire used on your hoop houses? Does every rib have wiggle wire? I struggle to understand how a small fan can inflate the entire length. It's - 8 degrees right now in WI. Inside my geodesic dome it is 60 degrees. It will be -21 degrees by morning with 15 to 25 mph winds. Wind chill will be approximately - 50 degree! Gotta love my Rocket Mass Heater!
Hey Rj Aquaponics - Sorry for the confusion there. We anchor our covering along both baseboards of the greenhouse using the wiggle wire/channel, and then along the sidewalls (up and over the arches).
Great video, Here's a FYI. We got 2/3's of our poly up and found out we didn't have enough wiggle wire to complete the job and no stores in our area had any. A MacGyver type employee came back with a couple of 4ft strands of barbless fencing wire. ( Barbless wire has 3 strands wrapped together for greater tinsel strength.) After separating the strands he took his plyers and made the rest of the wiggle wire we needed, worked fantastically. 🤔
Not really, because you still let the sun (energy) in. Might be in combination with a shade cloth, but not sure if really worth it. More ventilation is probably the simpler option.
Hi Paul, yeah there's a very significant difference in insulation capacity. Single layer poly has about an R.5 where as a double layer poly greenhouse has an R1.5 to even R2. That increase in value definitely adds up for a minimal additional investment.
I'm trying to see the temperature different with using double layer poly or doing a geothermal method. I would rather use a double layer poly being that it seems easier to install. I would like to grow oranges and lemons in an environment that gets down to 20° - 25° with heavy snow loads in the winter. What do u suggest? Would double poly work or should I do a geothermal method?
nate, you're always such a great help to all of us for posting the vids i recommend everyone watch before and during their adventures into the wonderful world of horticulture! grate work!
How much heat power is needed to maintain 70F temperature difference with the outside air for 4 acres greenhouse when using double layer polyethylene? Does make sens to blow hot air between the two layers?
Well, when it's -30F outside, maintaining 50F inside our greenhouse (2000 sq. ft.) consumes around 200K BTU/hr. You can probably extrapolate that out- roughly 20 times that for 1 acre, and around 80 times that for 4 acres, or around 16M BTU. Of course to get a good estimate you'll have to do the math for your particular structure type. . . The air between the layers doesn't matter beyond just creating a "dead" space.
My GH is made of 2x4s. I put plastic on both inside and outside. The plastic is stapled and secured with furring strips around the perimeter and on each stud to counteract wind. Just survived the winter of 2013-14 with the only issue being interior sweating. Is it necessary to pump air between the sheets of plastic in this situation or is the pump just used for plastic separation?
Questions about the PE plastic layers. 1) Do both layers have the IR+Condensation coating? If so, do both of those special coatings face inward? 2) Most greenhouse PE I've seen says to not let it come into contact with PVC. Is that a potential issue with PVC coated wiggle wire?
I can answer 1, in case anyone comes along wondering. Usually just the inner layer needs the IR/anticondensate coating. I'm in a semi-tropical environment, however, so there might be a difference for cold-weather systems like at Bright.
DRUMofTRUTH We leave both layers on all year to help buffer the cold nights and the wind. We do, however, have a roll-up sidewall that helps us keep things cool in the high tunnel. Here's a video of that: brightagrotech.com/opening-the-vertical-farm/ - Hope that helps!
Hey - 2 questions - Just bought a property with a poly greenhouse with wiggle wire but it is missing poly (torn off) on one end. We want to replace the plastic (1) is the wiggle wire removable and then reusable? If so how the heck do you do that? (2) do you need to run the pump for inflating the double layer all the times? Looks like this has been set up in ours at the one end, but we have no power to the greenhouse at the moment. Thanks!
Hi Michelle White - Yes the wigglewire is removable and it's a pretty easy chore to accomplish. We can make a video on that here soon. In the mean time you should be able to simply working it the opposite direction of the way you put it into the channel. This process is much easier with the PVC coated wiggle wire like we use since you reduce the risk of tearing your plastic. Yes, we'd recommend running the inflation pump around the clock to keep it filled and maximize your buffer layer of insulation. Also having it filled will help thwart any vicious wind attacks. The pump is small enough that it draws VERY little energy at all. It's less than an amp. Hope that helps! Are you on our email list yet?
Thanks for the video. This is the 3rd video I've watched on 2 layer poly inflating and no one has mentioned what the r value of the 2 layers with air space is. Can someone answer that please?
when we switch plastic to shade cloth on our green houses we have a storage issue with the wiggle wire. The issue is that the wires get tangled up, do you know of any efficient way of storing wiggle wire?
+Kasee Smith Unfortunately not... If you can figure it out, let me know! I’ve spent many an hour untangling that stuff. Sorry we couldn't be more helpful!
As long as you've got it tacked down, you should be good unless you're in a hurricane or tornado. If it can stand up to Laramie, Wyoming winds, it can stand up just about anywhere.
Bright Agrotech in my place (indonesia), sometimes windy, not strong wind like tornado but sometimes it's strong enough, so I'm worried about the wiggle wires will be released because wind blow. for now, i'm trying to grow crops with Hydroponics system
+Bradley Romero now that i think about it, it might be tough to install a second blower between the layers, and if you conntect the airpockets you dont gain anything from that as well...
When installing a second layer of poly on the greenhouse are you securing both layers in one channel? or two separate wire channels all around?
Grounded in the same channel
The fact the snow hasn't melted shows double skinned gives good insulation.
🦋? 😂
Can you supply me with the name of company in US that supplies the channel and wiggle wire
I’m interested what else you use to heat the greenhouse. And keep the plants from freezing? At night
Great vid Sir. I completely agree with your assessments of toughness and ease on the budget. Our eggmobiles are made out of poly-eth and wiggle wire; and have held up no problem through our regular and sustained 40-50mph high plains Texas winds.
I used 6 Mill greenhouse plastic. I plan to double it and inflate it in the future. Those channels and wiggle wires are awesome!
Wery cost effective construction for colder climates
guys can anyone help me and provide the company of these air blowers
Hi +Badih Assaker - You can find that here: www.greenhousemegastore.com/product/poly-inflation-fan-kit/s from +greenhousemegastore
please let me understand clearly about double layers, it's mean you use 2 plastics? do you use uv plastics? how many percents of uv protector? sory.. i'm too much asking. ^_^
I understand how the side plastic sheets are fitted but how do you fit the ends of the polytunnel (hoop house)? Thanks
Thanks for these videos! Quick question...do we put the first layer of poly on fully with the wiggle wire and then install the second layer with another layer of wiggle wire? OR, do we instal both layers at once, and then put on the wiggle wire just once??
Both at once to get them somewhat air tight.
Often if sections are airtight you will need a tube to jumper the fan air flow into each section.
There is also a pressure switch you can buy that senses the pressure between the layers and only turns on fan when pressure drops so the fan only runs as needed and cuts off when the pressure in the gap is back to normal. This also lowers the amount of condensation between the layers and also lowers heat loss from constantly blowing your warm air into the cold gap.
Aside from around 4:00 where it's barely visible, is there any place where they give a good shot of it actually in use?
Can I cut the wiggle wire if needed?
Yes! A pair of wire/side cutters and some strong hands and you can trim it to desired length.
Does that air pump need to go 24/7 or once it's inflated then you can stop it? I'm thinking off grid or grid down type situation
Wiggle wire width, and internal channel width?
Most wiggle wire and channel we have seen is the same approximate size, the channels are normally 1.25" on the outside, and 1/16" thick metal so roughly 1 1/8" inside size
@@ZipGrowInc thank you!. I am planning to use a router bit to create channels in wood.
obviously an endorser for wiggle wire...easiest most inexpensive way is using wood...you can either use planks with a 3/4 gap between them or a larger plank like a 2x4 with a channel cut into it with a router. either way the plastic is rolled past and a piece of wood ripped down to the appropriate size and pushed in...it replaces the expensive wiggler wire
timber prices have skyrocketed here wiggle wire was expensive vs timber
Out of curiosity, when using the blower to make an insulated layer, is there an outlet for the air pumped in between the sheets..Or is it leaky enough that there's an inlet only? Also, is the second/outer polyfilm layer intentionally made a little looser than the first/inner?
Hi icarus,
There is no outlet for the air. Some of it will leak out, but for the most part it is pretty static, keeping the blower on keeps it pressurized. The outer layer can be a little bit more "baggy" than the inside layer. We usually like to have both layers with some tension on them, but allow them to sag slightly between the ribs when deflated. Usually this still entails a lot of tugging and tensioning to get it tight enough.
It's insane that they don't sell this stuff over here in the UK. Just one of many random things that somehow didn't make it over the pond! The cost of getting it imported makes it way more expensive than the other type of locking method you mentioned.
That pcv wire always destroy my plastic. I can't even put the wire out now. Maybe I got too narrow channel but I got it with a politunel.
The poly manufacture says warranty void if it's in contact with pvc without a barrier between?
What about all that condensation with you blowing warm air between the layers. How do you drain it off?
Do you lock down both layers of film at the same time with one pvc coated wiggle wire?
Hello, is the clear film recommended for growing leafy greens or the clear poly?
Hi, will both layers of film be the same size or should the top one that will be inflated bigger?
I can't order these wiggle wire and profiles anywhere from europe :s
+boomshine7 Ah sorry to hear that. Hopefully you can find another solution!
You may have found a solution by now but in case you didnt. wiggle wire and c-section is available in the uk. Its taken literally years for the penny to drop here when the states has been using it for decades ;) We`ll probably be well into the next century before double poly catches on lol
thx alot for your comment john , i deferred the idea but now i will look into it
You should also look into controlling the blower with a differential pressure switch, running it 24/7 is a waste of electrical power. It also allows the use of 12v blowers and offgrid installation.
You look just like Chris Watts, sorry, just saying
Hello, thanks for posting this video. It helps in getting clarifying some of my confusions. Thanks.
However, i have few questions
1) What about hot climates. Once we infilate double layer there will be air inside always and in high summer temperatures the air will get hot and makes the inside climate more hot. Could you please clarify it?
2) We clip the wiggle spring before inflating between the layers. I think wiggle spring will lock transfer of air if wiggle is installed also at upper pipe. So, if we use double layer poly then we must install the wiggle at the bottom so that the air reaches all places between the layers?
3) Whats the dimensions of your house and how much time it took to pump in and fill the air?
4) Are you still conducting webinars?
Kindly respond.
Nate, I understand the concept, but where is wiggle wire used on your hoop houses? Does every rib have wiggle wire? I struggle to understand how a small fan can inflate the entire length.
It's - 8 degrees right now in WI. Inside my geodesic dome it is 60 degrees. It will be -21 degrees by morning with 15 to 25 mph winds. Wind chill will be approximately - 50 degree! Gotta love my Rocket Mass Heater!
Hey Rj Aquaponics - Sorry for the confusion there. We anchor our covering along both baseboards of the greenhouse using the wiggle wire/channel, and then along the sidewalls (up and over the arches).
Great video, Here's a FYI. We got 2/3's of our poly up and found out we didn't have enough wiggle wire to complete the job and no stores in our area had any. A MacGyver type employee came back with a couple of 4ft strands of barbless fencing wire. ( Barbless wire has 3 strands wrapped together for greater tinsel strength.) After separating the strands he took his plyers and made the rest of the wiggle wire we needed, worked fantastically. 🤔
Thanks for the info, great tip for our viewers!
Is the double layer effetive for keeping out the heat?
Not really, because you still let the sun (energy) in. Might be in combination with a shade cloth, but not sure if really worth it. More ventilation is probably the simpler option.
It came out of the C channel that the wiggle wire goes in to.
How long does the poly last?
how much wormer is having a Double Layer Greenhouses dos it make that much difference
Hi Paul, yeah there's a very significant difference in insulation capacity. Single layer poly has about an R.5 where as a double layer poly greenhouse has an R1.5 to even R2. That increase in value definitely adds up for a minimal additional investment.
I'm trying to see the temperature different with using double layer poly or doing a geothermal method. I would rather use a double layer poly being that it seems easier to install. I would like to grow oranges and lemons in an environment that gets down to 20° - 25° with heavy snow loads in the winter. What do u suggest? Would double poly work or should I do a geothermal method?
You should do both
nate, you're always such a great help to all of us for posting the vids i recommend everyone watch before and during their adventures into the wonderful world of horticulture! grate work!
Glad you liked it!
How much heat power is needed to maintain 70F temperature difference with the outside air for 4 acres greenhouse when using double layer polyethylene? Does make sens to blow hot air between the two layers?
Well, when it's -30F outside, maintaining 50F inside our greenhouse (2000 sq. ft.) consumes around 200K BTU/hr. You can probably extrapolate that out- roughly 20 times that for 1 acre, and around 80 times that for 4 acres, or around 16M BTU. Of course to get a good estimate you'll have to do the math for your particular structure type. . . The air between the layers doesn't matter beyond just creating a "dead" space.
My GH is made of 2x4s. I put plastic on both inside and outside. The plastic is stapled and secured with furring strips around the perimeter and on each stud to counteract wind. Just survived the winter of 2013-14 with the only issue being interior sweating. Is it necessary to pump air between the sheets of plastic in this situation or is the pump just used for plastic separation?
that's what I was thinking about doing. Have you done any more development on this since it's been 3 years since your comment?
Questions about the PE plastic layers.
1) Do both layers have the IR+Condensation coating? If so, do both of those special coatings face inward?
2) Most greenhouse PE I've seen says to not let it come into contact with PVC. Is that a potential issue with PVC coated wiggle wire?
I can answer 1, in case anyone comes along wondering. Usually just the inner layer needs the IR/anticondensate coating. I'm in a semi-tropical environment, however, so there might be a difference for cold-weather systems like at Bright.
I live in Texas and I put new plastic my green house the other day, I used wiggle wire but my plastic is coming out.
Where is it coming out of ***** ?
do you guys at brghtagrotech take the layer off in summer? or is air inflation year around cold and hot?
DRUMofTRUTH We leave both layers on all year to help buffer the cold nights and the wind. We do, however, have a roll-up sidewall that helps us keep things cool in the high tunnel. Here's a video of that: brightagrotech.com/opening-the-vertical-farm/ - Hope that helps!
Appreciated the insights. Very help info.
Glad it was helpful!
This is what I'm looking for. Planning to put up in quebec. Thanks for the great info
Perfect - yeah wiggle wire is great stuff!
where can I find the fan?
Good video.Thx.
profile l no how mush
Hey - 2 questions - Just bought a property with a poly greenhouse with wiggle wire but it is missing poly (torn off) on one end. We want to replace the plastic
(1) is the wiggle wire removable and then reusable? If so how the heck do you do that?
(2) do you need to run the pump for inflating the double layer all the times? Looks like this has been set up in ours at the one end, but we have no power to the greenhouse at the moment.
Thanks!
Hi Michelle White - Yes the wigglewire is removable and it's a pretty easy chore to accomplish. We can make a video on that here soon. In the mean time you should be able to simply working it the opposite direction of the way you put it into the channel. This process is much easier with the PVC coated wiggle wire like we use since you reduce the risk of tearing your plastic. Yes, we'd recommend running the inflation pump around the clock to keep it filled and maximize your buffer layer of insulation. Also having it filled will help thwart any vicious wind attacks. The pump is small enough that it draws VERY little energy at all. It's less than an amp. Hope that helps! Are you on our email list yet?
Don't use a pump it is loud and expensive. Use a blower like in the video.
Thanks for the video. This is the 3rd video I've watched on 2 layer poly inflating and no one has mentioned what the r value of the 2 layers with air space is.
Can someone answer that please?
Hey Paul Ladendorf - with inflated double layer 6mm poly film the R-Value is about 1.7.
1.6 then ypu add air and via diffusion you have a R factor of 5
thanks! i'll try my first
when we switch plastic to shade cloth on our green houses we have a storage issue with the wiggle wire. The issue is that the wires get tangled up, do you know of any efficient way of storing wiggle wire?
+Kasee Smith Unfortunately not... If you can figure it out, let me know! I’ve spent many an hour untangling that stuff. Sorry we couldn't be more helpful!
layflat polythene tubing, very cheap and reusable ;)
try big sheets of paper (maybe that brown craft stuff that comes in a roll) folded in half and tape or a clip to keep it closed?
Very useful information!
Thanks! Glad it was helpful to you.
I wish I knew about the poly covered wiggle wire a month ago- about to put plastic on
Tiffany Rose Sorry it didn't find you sooner! Did you rip your plastic? Uncoated wiggle wire can be pretty destructive. #greenhouse
plastic is on and holds air but lots of pinholes at the c channel
Tiffany Rose Thank God for duct tape!
how strong is it for wind blow? is it stong enough? because i will use pvc pipe to thigt plastic. which one better?
As long as you've got it tacked down, you should be good unless you're in a hurricane or tornado. If it can stand up to Laramie, Wyoming winds, it can stand up just about anywhere.
Bright Agrotech in my place (indonesia), sometimes windy, not strong wind like tornado but sometimes it's strong enough, so I'm worried about the wiggle wires will be released because wind blow. for now, i'm trying to grow crops with Hydroponics system
pvc pipe is not strong, it will be weaken overtime with the strong Indonesia sun heat,
does anyone know where to buy wiggle wire and channall in edm ab thx
Does Greenhouse Megastore ship up there Danny man?
i hoped to find where to buy it in edm canada its to far to ship and to long thx
check out hydro-gardens.com. They might be able to help you out.
How many layers of 6 mill film can you install in single u channel with wiggle wire? For instance, your end walls. Thanks.
Hey +Bradley Romero - I've only ever used two, but my guess is you could do three or four if you needed to. Hope that helps!
+Bright Agrotech yes that does help and thanks for the quick response. I appreciate the video.
+Bradley Romero Of course, happy to help!
+Bradley Romero If you ever try more please tell me (us) how it worked! Its sounds like a great idea, and pretty obvious as well :D
+Bradley Romero now that i think about it, it might be tough to install a second blower between the layers, and if you conntect the airpockets you dont gain anything from that as well...
Did you say 6mm poly or .6mm?
6 mil which is 150 micron or 0.15mm
6 mil= 150 micron film
A mil can refer to a thousands of a meter or a thousands of an inch. Here it can only be 6/1000 inch.
hey, please i have a question. how do you install by double film? tanks
Cevat Aydogdu Hey there! We have a post on that right here: www.brightagrotech.com/building-a-greenhouse-part-2/ - hope it helps!