Trope Talk: Lampshading
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2022
- The trope where the characters acknowledge something we're supposed to assume we were suspending our disbelief about. I'd make a cheeky referential joke here, but I sort of always take a meta-commentary tone in these descriptions anyway, so I'm not gonna be blowing any minds by pointing out that the comment section or the pause button exists.
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Favorite lampshade: Scooby Doo and the gang discover that the woman they've been talking to, and her dog, are extraterrestrials. The dog speaks to them and Daphne, shocked, says, "A talking dog!" Fred quietly says, "Imagine that."
Another Scooby doo lampshade moment, I don’t remember which movie this is in but the gang are in the van and shaggy and Scooby forgot all their luggage in favor of more room for food and when Daphne admonishes them for it, shaggy goes “like what’s the big deal? we wear the same clothes every day anyway”
@@PurpleQuestions Zombie Island. I haven't seen that movie in 20 years but I'm 99% sure that's the movie with that line.
@@maxbaugh9372 they also did that in The WWE movie (where Daphne *and* Velma scold Shaggy), and after Shaggy argues that they wear the same clothes all the time anyway, Fred makes the comment “you know, he’s not wrong”
@@adlirez the one with John Cena?
@@zeeb2190 yeyeyeye that one
I feel like ever since The Incredibles everyone has tried to lampshade the villain monologue, but never did so as well as that scene with Syndrome. Like he lampshaded the whole "villain monologue" thing by realizing he was monologuing and stopping halfway through when the hero was about to take advantage of the lapse in attention, but this was IN CHARACTER as he was a superhero fanboy and knew that, in the superhero world in which he lived, this was a legitimate strategy the heroes used to get the upper hand and was able to address it while keeping the fourth wall intact for the story. The Incredibles has awesome examples of really well done lampshading, "No capes!" being another stand-out example.
I think that pushes into no longer being "Lampshade Hanging" as it's not just drawing attention to something in order to pre-empt the the audience noticing it in a way that harms the story. Cutting short stereotypical villain behaviour like that is a character displaying genera savvy as part of a work of satire. It's drawing attention to the trope for the sake of drawing attention to it, and then uses that to subvert the trope. Lampshade hanging is about playing the trope straight, but padding it to get it past the audience safely.
They set this up with a scene where Mr. Incredible and Frozone are chatting about the old days and listening to the police scanner. Frozone is telling a story where he would have been killed but the villain starts "like this prepared speech about how feeble I am, how the world would soon be his".
I *think* this scene counts as lampshading because its establishing the monologueing trope as something ridiculous and overdone but also as part of the setting. Its just done in a way thats good worldbuilding.
Assuming it is lampshading, its done with a light enoigh touch that it feels like part of the story rather than a 4th wall break, and thats why I love it.
...And then Syndrome goes on to do a bunch of other stupid, short-sighted, cliche villain shit later in the movie. Like explaining his plan to the heroes while he's holding them captive, completely at his mercy. The logical thing to do would be to kill them all, there and then, and remove the last threat to his total victory.
But he doesn't do that. He gloats and mocks the heroes, and explains his dream of a future where superheroes are obselete. Then he leaves them behind to watch his triumph on TV, confident that they can't escape the prison he's built. Which turns out to be false, and leads to the heroes tracking him down and stopping his villainous scheme. A villainous scheme that had already gone wrong by the time they arrive, with the Omni-Droid outsmarting Syndrome and going rogue.
Because Syndrome isn't actually that logical at all. He's a petty asshole driven by spite. He thinks he's savvy because he can spot the obvious, surface-level mistakes. But he's blind to the deeper reasons why supervillains behave the way they do, and so ends up making the exact same self-destructive errors as the very people he sneers at. He is convinced of his own intelligence, and his hubris ultimately destroys him.
@@tbotalpha8133 Yes! Which is why Syndrome was such a great, realistic villain in the end. 😊
I would like to see a villain leverage the monologue trope by intentionally revealing their "plans" and letting the heroes escape. While the heroes think they escaped legitimately with great effort and having a detailed breakdown of the villain's plan, it was actually all part of the plan and the "plan" they were told about was all misinformation to misdirect them while the actual plan was completed.
Holy shit, Frisk hiding behind a convieniently shaped lamp is actual lampshading
HOLY SHIT
@@moss-eating-oddity3612 Undertale , being a subversion of typical RPG mechanics of killing everything and getting stronger and instead suggesting a path of pacifism instead lives on lampshading and fourth wall breaks, while still not diminoshing its emotional aspect. Amother thing it does is make certain non-diegetic game mechanics diegetic elements in the story itself like saving and reloading being a sort of time travel.
@@Nai-qk4vp I fucking love this game
@@moss-eating-oddity3612 HOLY SHIT
HE CAN'T KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT
I think my favorite example of lampshading is in The Owl House of the season 2 episode 19. Eda asks "wouldn't you rather have a beach day?" And Luz replies "I would if we had time for 20 more adventures" being a nudge to Disney cutting the show short and not letting them make another full seasons.
Just a heads up: you forgot to mention that the show is The Owl House.
@@9nikolai oh oops thank you!
Still Extremely Mad over how Disney Basically Murdered the Owl House because “It’s not Disney Brand”, Despite picking up the show and Putting it on the Air, and Amphibia showing the Deaths of Two 13 year old Girls…
On Screen…
Alright, one didn’t die, But she was impaled THROUGH THE CHEST!
And that one in Gravity Falls where Dipper and Mabel find a board game, and Dipper says 'This should take up the next 21 minutes', referring to the typical length of an episode.
I love that line so much, especially since Luz is so serious about it.
so I take it that this isn't that one trope where a character will attempt to 'hide in plain sight' by putting on a lampshade and pretending to be a lamp?
A very conveniently-shaped, lamp, at that
I mean, that can definitely be an example...
Actually, I think what many people will conveniently think about after reading this is an example of this trope.
That could work as them lampshading the concept of lampshading
It is actually. It's the trope namer. The point is that there is no viable hiding place, so you make a joke of the fact that the hiding place is not viable; it's funny because it shouldn't work but they act like it does anyway.
The more abstracted form of it being talked about here is when there is no viable way to get over the plot hole(the need for a hiding place), so instead of hiding it they just make a "joke" of the fact that the plot hole hasnt been addressed at all(putting on the lampshade disguise). The joke is that the creative and narrative problem has not in fact been fixed, but addressing the fact that it's not fixed acts as a handwave so audience and writers both just move on.
The crown jewel of lampshading is the Incredibles's iconic "You got me monologuing" scene, where the villain gets so far down his own line of thinking he forgets he should just kill the damn hero instead of talking.
Another reason why that kind of lampshading works in The Incredibles is because it was established before in the scene with Frozone that monologuing was actually something many villains did, way before the story began. In a way, the bit about how "villains monologue" works both as foreshadowing and worldbuilding.
And it's one of the best examples of lampshading done right. He drops the trope and that makes him feel more real and intimidating. Love that scene!
I think what works best about it is that it is in character, he has an emotional history with mr incredible hes made him out to represent everything wrong for him when really he just said go home kid one time, Syndrome would want to monologue have to fight that urge cuz on some level he wants mr incredibles aproval or for him to be impressed
Would the "no capes" be a lampshading? Because it later became a plot point, but was initially a fourth-wall-damaging commentary on the impracticality of some superhero fashion.
@@tvrkm6897 I think it would. It lampshades the fact that while capes look cool, they're impractical in a fight and lead to a lot of deaths, which also points out that quite a few comic book superheroes wear capes.
Riiiiiight. The Lampshade. The lampshade for Kuzco. The lampshade specifically intended to kill Kuzco. Kuzco's lampshade.
That lampshade right?
YES THAT LAMPSHADE.
Gotcha covered
I love this so much I don't even have the words.
"How did you get back here before us?"
"A-- Uh, how did we Kronk?"
"Well, ya got me. By all accounts, it doesn't make sense."
i think the reason the lampshading works so well in that movie is because it never takes itself seriously, and the characters are reasonably well written, and fun.
also, my only real critique of that movie is that they got Eartha Kitt to voice a character, and didnt have her sing.
especially since the movie was originally supposed to be a musical.
@@Reverend_Salem The good part is that we have the songs she would have sung like Snuff out of the Light on UA-cam.
One bit of lampshading that our D&D group has done from time-to-time that I love is where a character references something that doesn't exist in that world and another character asks "what's X?," for the first character to reply (often distraught) "I don't know!"
That's amazing. My DnD character just directly breaks the 4th wall. The DM has also put himself in there in the form of a lightning rat with scoliosis who is also god. (I think the scoliosis rat is actually his dad and he was an opossum or something ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)
Inspiration point
I think I watched a series on UA-cam where people played D&D and anytime anyone referenced a movie they’d pretend it was a puppet show their character watched.
Reminds me of a certain clip of this DnD campaign on UA-cam i keep seeing hilarious clips from, where this guy is talking to a dead clown that haunts him bc he killed him. Another of the party says "remember when i gave you a Snickers" the clown says he prefers 3 musketeers, and it leads to "what's a musketeer" "idk what's a Snickers"
@@pencils7351 man those shorts are so good.
And on this week's episode of "Red Osp Uses the MCU as a Punching Bag," she goes straight for the throat for one of its most defining aspects.
It really does suck being a fan of the MCU when the popular thing is to shit on the MCU
@@Maswartz226 As a former fan of the MCU Loki calling out the infinity stones as irrelevant and that nothing you can do with them actually matters lost my interest.
I haven't even bothered watching Thor Love and Thunder yet and it's on Disney+ which I already have as a free thing for another 4 months.
I really tried to keep watching but boring Disney+ show after Disney+ show on top of the mediocre 2021 film slate of Black Widow, Shang-chi and Eternals did not keep me interested.
As of now only the next Sony Spider-man and Deadpool 3 will get me to actually go to the cinema.
@@Maswartz226 I've loved OSP for quite a while but I'm getting quite sick and tired of the constant potshot-taking at the MCU. Much like when they take shots at the SW PT, it's not even renotrly funny or witty, it's just tiresome, played out, and, frankly, also quite hurtful to people who *are* in fact fans of these things.
Put plainly, this constant shitting all over something that other people genuinely love is *exhausting* to have to put up with. As a fan of the things, I have seen and borne the brunt of quite enough negativity without needing any *more* added on top of that.
@@hydnlver i mean, it’s less purposefully targeting the mcu as a joke or bc it’s the popular thing to do and moreso the tropes that red is talking about come up in the mcu a lot. it’s a popular franchise so it makes sense criticism is abundant, and everything she’s saying about it are genuine writing issues.
i hope this doesn’t sound dismissive, but at this point it might just be a situation of if people criticizing the mcu is upsetting to you to maybe take a break from watching trope talk videos
@@hydnlver you can't take offense for things you enjoy if you actually want someone to look at it critically. I personally feel off the "MCU FAN WAGON" before infinity war. There were some good things in all the movies, but i slowly began to realize there were bad aspects of the movies (the total erasure of any potential character growth for characters like Black Widow, Gamora, Valkyrie, etc.) for the sake of propelling the story forward. Because a lot of growth and the chance to move passed their problems for more flashy moments. Captain Marvel is a decent movie, but the direction Brie Larson was given to be logical before emotional yet everyone telling her to stop being controlled by emotion. She's a fantastic actor, but they decided to kneecap her performance.
The only movie that kept me kind of connected with the MCU was Thor Ragnarok. And a lot of people that are high up in the film industry like to pretend it isn't a good movie because it's mostly a comedy story that actually pushed the characters forward. And it was fantastic.
My favourite (recent) bit of lampshading is in Rise of the TMNT when Hypno-Potamus says to the turtles, "A good magician never reveals his plans, but a good villain always does. Oh, I'm torn guys. I've gotta be honest."
Done by voice acting gem Rhys Darby. Rise of the TMNT was just a fantastic show and more people need to watch it.
That show had so many good lines
Rise was so good, honestly
People need to get over their weird thing with April
@@AA-vr8ve for me it’s honestly not April that’s the problem although I will admit it was a weird choice in my opinion. My issue was both art design, (the characters just look weird like they got caught in a paint ball fight) how flippant and lazy Splinter is, and the fact that the turtle are now magic. It hardly felt like TMNT to me, it just sorta looked like it
@@Broomer52 tbf April's design has never been consistent, just look at the 2003 april and then at the original cartoon one, or the 2012 series april, none of them have that much in common
My favourite brand of lampshading is a frequent gag in classic Looney Tunes where a character is flipping out and making a lot of noise only to suddenly stop, look at the camera, and say something like "This is kinda silly, isn't it?" in a completely calm voice before _immediately_ returning to what they were doing as if nothing happened.
Reminds me of an episode where bugs bunny pretended he was having a heart attack, and called for a doctor. They added the silhouette of an audience to the bottom of the shot, and someone got up and said they were a doctor. You can guess what bugs bunny said next.
Or like the bug bunny episode were it was a parady of the invasion of the pod people; bugs is running and screaming, then stops and says the camera "you know folks, this is the scaryest part of the picture" then continues running and screaming
OOH OOOH OHH (This owwta get me an academy awahd!) OOH!
Especially funny because bug bunny shorts kept getting nominated but losing, for almost 20 years. So it's not just a 4th wall, but a "5th wall" break, acknowledging not just that it's a picture in a theatre, but the goings on of the film industry at large beyond the theatre you're in.
A classic one is where a Wicked Witch is the antagonist to Bugs Bunny and spends most of the cartoon trying to kill him. At last, she turns into a lovely Lady Bunny. Bugs falls in love. As they march off the screen, arm in arm, Bugs turns to us and says, "Yea. I know. But aren't they all, just a little bit?"
There is the part in a Looney Toon where a dogs ass catches on, so he starts dragging it on the floor. He then comments to the audience, "I better stop this or I'll start to like it!"
This is why I like the Muppets: they often acknowledge they're puppets, but not once do they show the puppeteers. And they're often singing when they do crazy stuff.
Apparently, it’s a real thing for people who interact with any of the Muppets to have trouble seeing the puppeteers, and just see the Muppet AS the performers.
@@phastinemoon This has always been the case for all of the muppets. Jim Henson and the very talented actors who control the muppets wanted to elevate the artform and make it incredibly immersive.
Any time a muppet has ever appeared outside the context of the muppets, it is extremely rare to see the actual actor controlling the muppet or even have them mentioned. You don't invite Jim Henson to your talk show and have him perform Kermit. If you wanted to do that, you'd just invite Kermit the Frog directly, because Jim Henson and Kermit are essentially completely different people (and this attitude isn't uncommon in ventriloquism to really sell the immersion).
The muppets and sesame street have done a very good job of really selling that illusion, to the point where they remain in-character even during bloopers or live performances and interviews. And that makes them all the more real. To the average viewer at first, they're just puppets, until as you said you just start seeing the Muppets as themselves.
This went so far as to during Jim Henson's funeral, where Caroll Spinney donned Big Bird and delivered a euology to both his life-long friend, creative partner, and really his creator. It's so hard to believe that inside of that costume is a man awkwardly wrenching his arm way up into the beak of an 8'2" bird, delivering some of the most heartbreaking statements you've ever heard (at this point, would it even be fair to call that acting anymore? Where exactly does Caroll stop and Big Bird begin?)
I think thats part of why, in muppet Treasure Island, it works when Long John Silver says "come on lads, this is my only number!"
Because yes, its a lampshade, it breaks immersion, but its in a movie where that is part of the joke.
And, most importantly, it isnt there to say "yes audience, this is kinda silly, lets just get it over with", instead it is essentially the actor/character telling the audience "hey, were getting to the good stuff now, pay attention" in a way that feels both genuine and in character.
And then they drop you the best song of the movie because they knew wtf they were talking about.
@@TheSpeep I've heard it said that Christmas Carol and Treasure Island are the two best muppet movies, because Michael Caine treats the muppets as fellow actors, and Tim Curry treats himself as a fellow muppet.
My favorite lampshade in the whole of the muppets world is in the first muppet movie when Dr. Teeth and The Electric Mayhem find the rest of them by reading the script Kermit gave them earlier, in order to avoid boring the audience by summarizing the movie thus far. It’s a lampshade on a lampshade.
The way emperor new groove lampshaded itself is honestly one of the reason why I love this movie. They know that their entire world dosnet make sense in the slightest and they take that fact and run with it without a shread of insecurity in their heart. And I just love it.
I think it's really effective because the lampshading never betrays the character: the things Kuzco lampshades and how he does it reflects his egotism, Kronk's reflects his positivity and dumbness, etc... It highlights the absurdity of the world but it doesn't make all characters the same, which seems to be part of the issue wit the MCu: a lot of the jokes don't feel particularly tied to a character's specific quirks.
"Well, you got me. By all accounts it doesn't make sense."
And that's why Emperor's New groove is top 3 animations ever
Kuzko - How did you get here?
Izma - ... How did we get here?
Cronk - By all accounts it doesnt make any sense.
Given how beautifully yet frequently Emperor's New Groove did it I propose to give them the honorary title of cchandeliering"
A great lampshade is in Avatar the last airbender when Aang just needs a rock to destroy the drill, and then a rock just falls where he needs it, and he's like "Actually, that's exactly what I needed for once". It works because things always seem to go wrong for him all the time, so him acknowledging this makes us sympathize with him. He's done all the painstaking work, one rock falling into place does not seem like a contrivance, even if it technically is.
That moment also works with what red said about Deus ex machinas
Your comment brings attention to the fact that this is the first vid Red's done in forever that didn't reference ATLA.
The general on the top of the wall also said to not stop throwing rocks down at the drill so it was kinda inevitable for a rock to fall near him.
Also Aang is the messiah, the universe falling into place around him is in character
I also love that moment because it calls attention to the way that Aang is mindful of things going differently than they “always do”. People are really bad about confirmation bias, and that little moment of gratitude for something being convenient is such a healthy way to engage with the world
Favourite lampshading example:
In an episode of Phineas and Ferb, Doofenshmirtz is telling Perry how Vanessa got mad at him bc she heard something out of context and then he makes references to idiot plot tropes in sitcoms and hearing things out of context etc etc and Doof says this:
“But this isn’t a sitcom, Perry the Platypus, ok? This is real life and- *he then looks at in the direction of the audience and seems distracted before continuing* “
Love it.
Do you remember which episode it was?
"Because knowing the characters know their world doesn't make sense, makes the gag twice as funny"
THANK YOU. FINALLY SOMEONE EXPLAINED IT
That works when the characters seem to have fun with it
If they do it mean spirited like preemtively critize their own world, it ruins the mood
@@ianr.navahuber2195 Like Teen Titans Go?
@@klas-6 irónically teen titans go can make it work when the titans seem to actually genuinely like each other. Like in the movie
Is in the tv show were the joke eventually stops being funny after repeating it so much
@@ianr.navahuber2195 Yeah that movie was much better than the show
My favorite part about Airplane and the Naked Gun movies. They're totally absurd and the characters acknowledge that (to an extent) while also playing it totally straight
An excellent example of this is in the Fresh Prince of Bel Air where Will calls attention to the fact his Aunt Viv has been recast by saying she looks different since she's had another kid and where he jokes "if we so rich how come we don't have a ceiling?" And the camera pans up to the studio lights.
For the same show, there was a fun bit in the episode ‘Will’s Misery’, where Will had decided to get back at Carlton for a prank during his date with Lisa (which caused him to get dunked on by Lisa and her society colleagues), by making Carlton think he killed her with a rock. This prompts Carlton to scream and cry, running out of the kitchen through the door, comes back in and drags himself across the floor, running in the cabin, the audience, the school set and finally the camera landing on the actor as he dashed into Will’s arms.
Different episodes, but same basic concept.
The ceiling joke is possibly one of my favorite bits on any TV show, it’s so fucking funny
Sorry for Nitpicking, but It was Jazz that mentioned something was different about Aunt Viv.
I feel like the specific example of an actor switch isn't just a really good use of this trope, but a vital one. It can be jarring and confusing if something in the story changes without explanation, especially a cast member. It's not always clear if this is a recast, a new character, a joke, or something else entirely. Hanging a lampshade on it to let the audience know "yeah, it's a new actor but the same character, be cool" prevents the audience from spending time trying to figure it out, which would break immersion.
"Apologizing for your art preemptively is always a bad idea."
90% of ao3: *sweats*
Edit: HOLY FRICK WAS NOT EXPECTING ALL THE LIKES thank you so much!!!
I DON'T APPRECIATE THE CALLOUT!
*wheeze*
Sometimes I find it endearing
lol Yeah, pretty much. I've been trying to get better about that for a while now. Like, I'd already got it into my head that I shouldn't crap on my own work because then people might take me at face value and /not read it/ in the first place since most audiences only have so much time to spend. Plus it just makes me kinda caustic and bitter over time when I do so I've tried to stop. It's just really hard because... ya know, self-esteem issues and fanfic gets crapped on in general by everyone else sometimes.
ao3?
I really like the lamp shading in The Incredibles, because it is mostly done by Syndrome - and it makes sense for Syndrome to be totally genre-savvy! He’s lampshading hero movie tropes not because he’s *in* a superhero movie, but because he’s in a world where superheroes actually exist and he was a huge fan of them. This works really well because The Incredibles is just as much a superhero movie as it is a parody of them. Having the audience stand-in there ready to critique the tropes of superhero movies works, because the movie itself isn’t held up by those tropes.
Also, the “no capes!” Bit, which is maybe only barely lampshading, but manages to hide that it is also foreshadowing!
The "no capes" gag was complete serendiptiy as animating cloth is a bitch, especially for early 2000s animation, and Pixar didn't have the capacity, skill, or patience to render capes. So they came up with "no capes" and a montage of supes having several cape-related accidents and the whole thing wound becoming a plot point in Syndrome's demise.
Having the audience surrogate be the main villain was a fucking baller move
@@NobodyC13 the gag also makes sense in-universe, since it's bringing up how a typical genre convention (superheroes wear capes) is actually dangerous and impractical. That's discussing a trope, but it's discussing how it's a bad idea _in-universe_ , with the concern being grounded in-universe- the audience can laugh at how capes are silly, but the characters are concerned about danger that is real to them.
Both?
Both?
Both. Both is good.
@@namesarefortheweakWe are the reason those characters go through hardship. We, the audience, are the flashpoint of the worst disasters across the superhero world. We are the villians, superheroes need villians to exist. Syndrome is every negative aspect of an audience ever needed, from powerscaling, through instigating international disasters for our amusement, to holding characters hostage to get them to do something cool.
"Apologising for your art preemptively I always a bad idea" is generally good life advice, letting your work speak for itself
“And I love _you,_ random citizen!”
I love this little reference.
It's got some good presentation, yeah.
YYEESSS!
If only Joss had been able to manage being a decent human being, we could have gotten more great stuff....
And it loves you, random commenter .
I'm thinking either Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog or Megamind
My favorite moment of lampshading is in Archer. Archer and Lana get into a shootout in a hotel room against a bunch of goons. During the gunfight, Archer pulls out a grenade, Lana asks him where he got, and he says “it was on the lampshade”
Archer is a gem xD
Didn't Archer do a bit explaining " Chekov's gun " once ?? Or maybe that was a youtube fan explaining a reference in the dialogue
@@danjohnston9037 Yeah, in one of the early season episodes, Archer gives Cyril both a pen with a poison needle in it, and a gun called "A Chekov", before setting him up with an Escort to try and teach him how to be a suave spy. Then the escort accidentally dies from the pen, subverting the set up of "The Chekov's Gun" by having the death be caused by an entirely DIFFERENT Chekov's Gun. It was a brilliant bit of meta-comedy.
@@danjohnston9037 no, it happened xD. They have lots of bits like that
@@danjohnston9037 it's been a while but if I remember in one of the early episodes he says he "always carrys a chekhov (a hangun)" in his underwear, which he uses later in the episode
I feel like that note about using lampshading as a means of apologizing for inadequacy being a BAD idea is a great lesson to teach. Speaking as someone who writes in their spare time, I almost feel called out.
Or like how SheHulk resolved its whole season by use of a lampshade (breaking out of the show and complaining to the writers) to making up for its bad writing by trying to say that bad writing was intentional in the first place. It didnt work. Also the fact that the character used it to avoid consequences for their actions, leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Rick and morty
You need to know where the emotional throughline is so you can work with it.
To borrow an observation from Sideways, the original Shrek is filled with pop songs, but all the parts about Shrek and Fiona's relationship use the original score. Because that relationship is the foundation of the entire movie. The parts that actually matter are treated with appropriate seriousness, the rest is fair game for the jokes.
Tbh, it can work if you make it part of worldbuilding that is basically a micro-comedy. Or at least I tell that to myself after I attempted a noob RPG maker project(that ultimately never got off the ground) on the 3DS, where I used exaggerated lampshading by making NPCs talk about how pathetic their town is, or how the shop has weird carpet spam as its floor-aestetic.
I like the one episode of Archer where he produces a grenade seemingly out of nowhere...
Lana: "Where did you get that grenade?"
Archer: "It was hanging on a lampshade!"
So Archer lampshaded the fact that he pulled a lampshade? Woah.
@@dungeonmaster3464 lampshade-ception
In Halo: Reach, when you get attacked within five minutes of launching into space, Jorge says “Is there any place the Covenant isn’t?!” like he’s mad at the developers
Ahhhhh good ol' Long Night of Solace...ODST has a slight one with a hilarious ending with Dutch asking the Lord if needs to do any more flying
In the start of that level you are being air-to-ground attacked by Seraphs which are the same spaceship-to-spaceship vehicle that attacks when space fighting starts later in the level. The presence of space vehicles overextending to the surface to hit the Rocket Base (austensibly to prevent resupply of the orbital defense platform) means the unsc has lost 'air superipority' in the space above.
Jorge is a spartan *2*. He should know better, he was on that beach 10 minutes prior, and I think this counts as poor lampshading from 343 who had no idea what to do with their characters in downtime outside of one big moment per mission.
@@PattPlays Reach was Bungie, tho
@@PattPlays Jorge is just mad. Can't Jorge just be mad?
Jorge :(
I feel this with video essays sometimes. Sometimes the essayist says "now I already hear you furiously typing..." and I'm like "no, I was fully on board with what you were saying".
Well, "you" refers to certain people who inevitably type. Tragically, we tend to generalize too much.
Also saying that tends to get people typing about how they weren't typing, which helps engagement.
Ironic given Red does that often when talking about "Controversial" topics lol
(Loved her clips of youtube fight as scenes from Kaiju movies)
@@whafflete6721 come to think of it though, there's a subtle difference with the Comment Section Kaiju -- it doesn't say "YOU are about to leave some smartass comment on my video", it says "boy, some people are going to be leaving smartass comments on my video about this". people are a lot more inclined to agree that there are some toxic commenters, than that they themselves are the toxic commenters.
(although even then, people aren't necessarily going to enjoy being reminded that there's some dumb controversy on the internet about any and everything, so it's dicey)
@@airlock7367 Wait yeah, true, it's more "Some ppl are gonna do this" less "u are gonna do this"
I think I've seen this a few times: imagine a cartoon character opening their wardrobe and we see dozen of identical pieces or clothing. Then the character is like "what will I wear today?" yet we know they're gonna wear their character design clothing, and surely they then proceed to do so
As someone who actually has like 20 identical sets of clothes I occasionally make this joke when getting ready
Bee Movie did this.
To quote southpark “Simpsons did it!”
Hades does something similar. Hades, the antagonist, will burn off his cape for his intro sequence every time you fight him. The protagonist, Zagreus, comments on him always having a cape to burn. Later you find Hades does actually have a wardrobe full of capes.
Then there's a joke where the character takes two clothes, the usual attire and a different one, they throw the different attire away and dress up in the same clothes.
Maybe an example of Lampshading I thought worked???
Dr Sivian vs Shazam. They're a near mile away from eachother and the doctor is giving a very dramatic monolog and the music is suitably dramatic, then it cuts to Billy having no music and barely hearing his voice above a whisper. It completely undercut the drama and scariness of the doctor but in the best way possible and also helped remind us that huge and buff Zachary Levi is playing a kid, so of course he's not taking this seriously
Isn't that the same joke as Po confronting Shen from a rooftop in Kung-Fu Panda 2? Po yells out that he's going to defeat Shen and rescue the Furious Five, and Shen can't hear him at all.
Shazam is such an excellent film..👌
@@matthewmuir8884 It's a pretty good joke
@@josephmorse3089 I find that is the case with most lampshading moments. Usually, the joke is pretty funny, or at least will make you smile in recognision of the fact a joke was just made. However, you pay for that with investment in the plot. The question is whether the trade-off is worth it, and that really depends on how much you are invested in the plot/characters in the first place. If you mainly come for the comedy of it, most lampshading will be funny enough to make it worth it. If you are invested in plot and characters, on the other hand, it can quickly become jarring.
That's why Red praised instances of lampshading that only occur with certain characters or sections of the plot. If a movie starts joking every 10 minutes or so, then ramps the jokes up rapidly to then heavily limit it, the audience gets to know what parts of the movie needs to be treated seriously, and what parts you can point at and laugh with little fear of not taking it seriously enough.
I used to lampshade a lot as a DM but recently stopped when I realized that my players are taking time out of their schedule every other week, on their days off, to sit at my table for a few hours and engage in this story and world I've made for them despite having literally no obligation to do so. And that's my message to y'all, my fellow creatives. Those who consume your work either literally with cooking or figuratively with physical engagement always have a moment where they voluntarily decide to do so, and make the time for it. So don't be afraid of your work, because half the battle is already won as soon as someone agrees to engage with it.
I used to do that as well, specifically when I just started. After a few months I realised that even though my classical fantasy story that goes the clichéd "Level 1: Rescue Kitten, Level 20: Kill God" path and is filled chalk full with halfway predictable tropes, my players are still engaged and I'm not holding them at gunpoint. Anytime they chose to ask an NPC more than they needed to, or waste a charge from a magic item for Legend Lore on a totally useless bit of information, they really WANT to be invested in this world, regardless if it's as cookie cutter as D&D stories come. That's when I slowly started to drop basically all but the smallest possible lampshades from my story and it's been really helpful from a writing perspective.
I’ve always thought there’s two ways to play dnd, there’s the dramatics and the comedians. Dramatics like Matt Mercer make you cry and occasionally, and comedians like Griffin McElroy. Despite the fact that these two people are very different in their DM styles both know when to cut out the jokes and let the moment sink in
Well, it's entirely dependent on the story you're telling.
You shouldn't be playing Maid RPG as a dark, serious encounter but as a lighthearted romp filled with comedy and lampshading. However, if you're playing a Warhammer TTRPG, you probably want to be grimdark and overly serious.
@@desreploid3353 Glad to hear it broski.
@@WhiteRose2002 oh yeah there's got to be a balance, and it doesn't always need to be 50/50.
I'll always appreciate the Narrator Is A Character style.
Shows like Love is War are basically MADE by having a narrator simultaneously omnisciently telling you the story, while also reacting like another audience member. It's like having a friend recount the story to you instead of just reading it straight.
It's the best way to do unreliable narrator in visual media too imo, like how we immediately see Kuzco is full of it when he insists he's the pitiable hero of the story and even he eventually realizes how much of a jerk he's been
Personal favorite example is Hades. There's a narrator that pipes up whenever you interact eith some part of the world for the first time, or during some certain sequences, and the main character Zagreus sometimes talks back in some amusing ways.
Into the Woods played with that. During the 1st act, the narrator plays the various stories straight, like normal fairy tales. In the 2nd act, the characters acknowledge the narrator, and give him to the giant to be killed. Since there is no more narrator, the various stories spin out of control, with all but 4 characters being killed or leaving.
That's for the play; the movie didn't use the narrator as character, which is one of many reasons it failed.
@@MrLuizilla And from what I remember the narrator even set the entire games events in motion by accidently revealing a piece of information that Zagreus was not aware of.
George of the jungle did it with the bad guys being punished for talking back
As a child, I always thought the ravine Yzma and Kronk fell in led to the gator pit that goes straight back to the "secret lab" lever...that's how I thought they got back first, and it totally made sense...
Austin Powers : Wait a tick. Basil, if I travel back to 1969 and I was frozen in 1967, presumably, I could go back and visit my frozen self. But, if I'm still frozen in 1967, how could I have been unthawed in the '90s and travelled back to. Oh, no, I've gone cross-eyed.
Basil Exposition : I suggest you don't worry about those things and just enjoy yourself. [to camera] That goes for you all, too.
RDJ in Tropic Thunder: "Listen. I'm a white guy playing a white guy playing a black guy in a movie that doesn't even exist!"
@@sethb3090 pretty sure the actual quote is "I'm a dude playing another dude disguised as a n o t h e r dude."
OP, that is a perfect example of how not to lampshade. Thanks. :)
@@aaronimp4966 that's not true because tropes don't have universal rules for every story. in the case of a story intended to be comedic, a blunt approach works as long as you don't beat your audience over the head with it over and over
@@uncroppedsoop "Tropes don't have universal rules for every story."
True. And?
"In the case of a story intended to be comedic, a blunt approach as long as you don't beat the audience over the head with it over and over."
Yes. And?
Lampshading is usually a blunt approach. Did you think I was criticizing all lampshading because I took issue with a specific instance of the practice? Perhaps I should have been clear instead of quippy.
Lampshading is fine, great even, if it is used to gloss over minor details that the author could easily fix, but chose not to. It does NOT work, however, when the author/scriptwriter uses it to call themselves out for making a "bad" choice of a major plot point, or to degrade and criticize their own work. The above example is criticizing itself for making a major plot choice; the introduction of time travel, one of the most cataclysmic new mechanics you can add to a story. Compounding the issue is the fact that they crossed the line by running the overused and massively overused "time travel pretends to be complicated, but it really has no logic whatsoever, so don't think about it" joke. Time travel is one of the best opportunities to create plots that are deeply thought out. The logic is complicated, but it also can be cohesive, and people should expect producers to write cohesive time travel that stands up to logical scrutiny. Instead, people keep perpetuating the excuse that time travel cannot possibly be effectively handled in stories, and it irks me.
Does that make more sense than my original comment?
A good lampshade is a punchline to a joke you didn't realize was being told, a bad lampshade is someone interrupting a story to throw out a self-deprecating one liner out of nowhere.
It can be fun when a character realizes a trope that's about to happen in their story and instead of rolling their eyes, they get excited about it.
That sounds fun. Do you have an example?
Deadpool: "Super hero landing! She's gonna do a super hero landing!"
I mean that’s still lampshade hanging, just a different take on it
@@cartoonishidealism582 agreed. But it's more to the OP's point. It doesn't point out the trope and apologize for it. It points out the trope, says we all like this thing. Let's enjoy it together.
@@cartoonishidealism582 Exactly
"And I love *you,* random citizen!" We love the Megamind reference 😂
She finally did it. She finally mentioned the trope gold mine that is the Princess Bride!
Well, she has previously. Not sure if she has in a Trope Talk, but I know she did in the video on King Arthur, while explaining the concept of courtly love.
I think it was also in the damsel video
Not gonna lie listening to Red hype up the Princess Bride and Emperor's New Groove for a solid 2 minutes was delightfully unexpected.
*Doof voice* "and by that I mean CONPLETELY EXPECTED!" *springs the trap*
@@Meepantor ??? doof???
@@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 I think they mean the “inconceivable” guy?
Well
They Deserve it
@@demonzabrak a character from Phineas and Ferb
How you avoided using Deadpool while discussing "lamp shading" and "breaking the fourth wall" was simply amazing. 😲
As well as Pinkie Pie!
4th Wall Breaking Reality Warpers tend not use lampshades. If anything they ripped the shades off and make the audience stare at the naked burning bulb.
@@CrimsonBlasphemy In Wade’s case, we’re forced to stare at it cause he’s holding a gun to our heads.
I feel like in Deadpool's case, there just isn't a fourth wall. At best there are broken shards in the corner of the frame.
That's because the entire premise of Deadpool's 4th wall humor isn't really relevant to how writers normally use lampshading. In Deadpool, the lampshading is the entire point, and it's meant to be the center of attention, but elsewhere, it's something that's done to try and get the audience to continue to suspend their disbelief for something by preempting a criticism of that thing.
10:09 My favorite moment like this is in the second Monkey Island game where if you die the game pauses for a beat before the person whom the flashback is being told to says "No you didn't"
King's Quest 10 works like that too, which....caught me by surprise. I'm used to that series being way more brutal about failure.
In The Curse of Monkey Island, when you die the credits start rolling, and two NPC's start arguing about Lucasarts trying something different by killing a character in an adventure game.
Bathos is one of my greatest enemies and I am being coming increasingly frustrated with how it's infecting every aspect of entertainment. It's like it's impossible to take anything seriously anymore or to unapologetically care about something. Worse, bathos makes you feel like you were stupid for caring.
Hey, could’ve been worse, there could’ve been a wide shot music cut after you told Anakin he was like your brother
I mostly enjoy Marvel movies, but it really does annoy me how 90% of them can't let more than one moment of tension, emotion or drama per movie just sit and breathe without an undercutting joke.
They used to be better about it. As it went on the Jokes got more common. I will say though the Rocket example during Quill's speech didn't feel like a break to me as he had been a snarky jerk the entire film so it was just him reacting as he always did to the moment. Meanwhile Thor (though I did love ragnarock) has been mostly unable to do anything meaningful for a long time due to becoming a comedy character in the MCU.
It is almost like the people working on the movies are ashamed of them.
@@schwarzerritter5724 I know Taika certainly is.
@@HiddenInTheTruth It feels like we are dealing with two different things. Rocket and Korg seems to work more as Lampshades, actively commenting. But Thor throwing a ball at the window expecting it to break seems more like a straight joke.
A joke to undercut the drama or tension doesn't feel like the same as a lampshade. It's just comic relief no matter if you think it was used well or not.
@@HiddenInTheTruth Yeah, the "bunch of jerks standing in a circle" was a tragic revelation of Rocket's own insecurities; Thor bemoaning how he's lost everything, and, by the way, his fists are not the hammer was Taika not being willing to give him a moment to grieve (instead it comes in Infinity War, with Rocket).
For me, Ragnarok's the one Marvel movie (so far) which doesn't dare risk you forgetting, even for an instant, that it's meant to be a comedy, at the expense of actually telling its story.
A great example of the "story within a story" is the episode The Ember Island Players from Avatar, where they essentially recap the whole story up to that point while also making fun of things like the fact that the main characters are all kids or teenagers or Zuko's characterization in Season 1.
Don't forget on how the Gaang pointed out Jet's sudden disappearance and wondering what happened to him/where he went after the Lake Laogai episode.
There is also the complete dismissal of the Great Divide and the obvious playing up of Zuko/Katara for some reason.
it was SUCH a good lamp shade that it didn't even feel like one? I'm sure the writers intended for that episode to be a lampshade but many moments were so so ridiculous it just felt like straight satire.
@@nikolaivladski9905 That was more a comment on how the network wouldnt allow them to actually let him die so they had to just keep it somewhat vague.
In universe he did die.
@@jenniferjaffa1127 Don't forget they even have several emotional moments through the episode despite all of the meta humor and jokes.
"You didn't actually say that to him, did you?" "I might as well have.."
"It is true, isn't it? You don't see me in that light, do you?"
"Now, the Avatar is dead! And we shall rule the world!"
They do such an amazing job with that episode that despite all the meta jokes about ignoring the great divide or wrether or not Jeff died or how Katara is a preachy, overly emotional girl they still manage to throw in some genuin heartfelt and deep emotions!
I recently saw a play that completely turned the entire lampshading trope on its head. It was called "The Play That Goes Wrong" which entirely hinged on the point that it is a live-action performance and that the "story" can't be told because everything "goes wrong." It also had different aspects of the performance go on when the play technically wasn't showing before the opening and during intermission. Basically the entire thing is a giant fourth wall break and it was freaking amazing and had me dying of laughter.
Oh, I love that series! It’s a shame that season 2 isn’t on UA-cam though.
6:11-6:43 I actually needed this advice recently. I sell baked goods out of my house, and last time I made a couple of mistakes in the recipe. I had a huge urge to apologize for the cookies being too small or the wrong texture. But then I thought about this video and remembered: The customer doesn't know what the recipe is "supposed" to be. They've never had it before and there was nothing inherently wrong with what I'd made, it just wasn't quite what I thought it would be. So I handed them off without any preemptive apologies and got nothing but positive feedback!
The lesson: The thing you're apologizing for likely isn't as much of a problem as you think it is, and may not even be a problem at all.
It depends on how badly you screw up
Its often said that as a musician its best to just move on when you hit a wrong note because the audience probably won’t notice
And acknowledging it would be much more disruptive than the mistake you made
did you change your recipe? fed them the "proper" recipe to see different feedback and such? pretty cool
@@Kurochana They didn't buy any more that season. I'm starting it back up soon, so we'll see if they notice a difference this time 'round.
Ten points for using Rizzo's lampshading line: "He died?! And this is supposed to be a kids' movie" from Muppet Treasure Island.
Ten? C'mon, Rizzo has gotta be worth at least 50 :)
@@anonymousperson4214 50 is for The Muppet Christmas Carol
@@MuriKakari "Wow that's some scary stuff! Should we be worried about the kids in the audience?"
"No it's alright. This is culture."
That cracks me up every time.
I once caught an episode of a show I didn't watch (Austin and Ally, for those who care) in which the characters had just come back from summer break. Apparently their teacher had spent the whole summer watching some kind of drama because they started doing a gag where she would face directly into the camera, whip off her glasses, and say something really dramatic before turning back to the characters as if nothing ever happened. The 3rd time she does this the group's weird friend comes into the frame, stares into the camera all confused and goes ".....What is she looking at??"
There's a bit in Scrubs... S5 E18... where JD is showing off his new suit and it flips flops between breaking the 4th wall and implying he is just talking to random people in the area.
Oh that's got an extra layer of joke because he's supposed to be an aspiring director
Damn that takes me back, I loved Austin and Ally back in the day
Jimmy Neutron did something similar, except it would cut right away to reveal that the dramatic "facing the camera" was just them talking to another character, who responds with understandable confusion.
One of the most heartbreaking scenes I've read relied completely on the concept of lampshading. So, in this story, character A is going to die, and based on the internal logic of the work there's absolutely no way to save them, but then! A dramatic rescue happens! And the main character wonders how the rescue party managed to get there so fast, since the trip should have taken at least three days, in a way that fully makes you think it's lampshading, they got there faster than should have been possible because the author needed them to get there, right? So even though there's a plot hole there, you believe it, the main pointed out the plot hole! Relax, you can ignore it! Look, they rescued A, isn't that great?! Look at these nice scenes of everyone hugging and celebrating!!! A is alive!!! Of course they weren't going to kill A! A is a super important character!! Can you fucking imagine!!
....And then. And then, it's revealed that rescue scene was what the main character WISHED had happened, what he hoped for in the split second before A dies. And A dies, A absultely dies, of course no one was going to save them, no rescue ever arrived, we told you there was no way A would survive, did you really think we would bend the world's logic to save one character? Ha!
It really worked brillantly. You get the big, tenses supense of whether the story is really going to kill A, followed by the relief of "Of course the story wouldn't kill them!" followed by the shock of realizing "Oh holy shit they actually killed them for real!!!". Reading that I really felt the main character's disbelief, the "No, no, this can't be happening!", it was an amazing use of the audience's awareness of this trope, just thinking about how they executed it gives me chills.
I know exactly which book series you're talking about. One of my favourites as a teenager, and that was a particularly harsh and brutal character death.
@Ash S The series is the Saga of Darren Shan, it's one of the later books, book 9 I believe.
@@jackbaxter2223 Yup! That's the one!
I was about to say "That Brendan Fraiser episode of Scrubs?" And then realized you said book lol.
@@jackbaxter2223 apparently there is also a manga????
I love when Chowder did this throughout the show. My favorite is when they run out of money and Mung says “No money means no animation!” And then it cuts to real footage of the voice actors washing cars for cash 💀
Most people don’t think random things can happen in books, like people always say things like “that would never happen in reality, that’s so unrealistic” yet most things in life are random.
I was reading a book and the main character has the ability to heal himself by absorbing water. Just as he is about to die it begins to rain and he heals. I was like bull, but the book was happening in spring, it rains like daily in spring
People are more likely to accept coincidence when it makes the MCs life harder than when it makes the MCs life easier. For example the Mcguffin being stole just before the MC gets it is just raising the stakes but a security guard leaving an important door open is considered ridiculous while both are highly unlikely.
@@Fireinthedarkness666 ohh yeah that’s definitely right, the villain can always survive somehow, yet the mcs can’t. a security guard leaving a door open though is not that unlikely, probably extremely likely…I mean the government had hundreds of classified documents stolen because they (the thieves) put a paper on the door saying leave door unlocked for maintenance
This was touched on in the talk on Deus Ex Machina, we expect a lot of random happenstance in fiction to hurt the heroes, so throwing them the odd positive random boon isn't so bad.
Do you remember what book? That sounds interesting.
@@ladytalksalot4097 not really, it kinda fell apart later on so I stopped reading it. Book one was really good, book two not so much.
I'm surprised you didn't bring up the "Ember Island Players" when discussing the Story within a Story portion. That is one of the all time best versions of calling out the 4th wall from within the story. "Did... did he die?" "You know it was kind of vague..."
Did jet just die
You know, it was really unclear
"Well, that was terrible."
"The effects were decent, though."
“Theres the grand canyon!”
.....
“Lets fly over it.”
@@soulstealer5625 I absolutely hated that episode. Most of the filler in that show was was ok to really really good but that episode was AWFUL
Oh totally! This is a great example! LOVED that episode...
I think "You All Meet in an Inn" would be fun to cover, talking about ways stories introduce and congregate the heroes.
I recently watched the Batman animated special where they had the whole cast of the Adam West series reprise their roles. It's just as silly as the original ("what sits in a tree and is extremely dangerous?" "A sparrow with a machine gun." "Obviously.") and what made it work so well was that they never winked to the camera and went "wow, that sure was zany". Everything was absolutely sincere which made it all even funnier.
Really like how Red gives us permission to be "cheesy" if we want to. I really appreciate that.
Why would you need her approval? Or anyone else for that matter? Other people's opinions are just opinions. No one, no matter how fancy a media critic they are, has some objective say in deciding what works or doesn't work in a story.
@@user-je1cu2lt5d It is not directly her approval that matters, but the community. There are not many totally independent people who write what and how they want. For other - we need to know that it's okay to do or be something. If almost every person you spoke to tells how cheesy moments ruin all of the engagement in the story, how everything is too serious or cliché - then you start to question "Am I the weird one? Should I change my work/opinion?"
I was in a fandom where vocal part of it criticized how characters don't suffer from enough trauma, how there isn't enough struggle and drama and how everything in story should be darker and harder and heroes should not win. And I cannot say just by myself without any support "You all are wrong about it!". But Red's words about how she likes lighter stories with heroes and saving the day helped as a support to get out of that sadistic fandom and write more lighter stuff.
@@user-dk5ne2nd7c That's why I value Red's advice more than most writers. She doesn't set hard rules about what is and isn't okay when discussing tropes (only in extreme cases). She tries to look at a trope as objectively as possible.
@@user-dk5ne2nd7c Just out of curiosity, which fandom because I can think of a couple series’s I watch that might fit the bill for that, although I don’t really interact with fandoms tbh and it seems like I’m dodging a bullet.
"If the creator thinks their audience is going to laugh at them and thus must peempt them by laughing at themselves firts, they're gonna select for an audience willing to laugh at them"
This phrase is so powerful and so true.
Rick and Morty in a nutshell
Except nothing in Rick and Morty is supposed to be taken seriously. They even lampshade that to make fun of the fans that do take it seriously.
@@stevejakab274 that's precisely the problem
The show tries to show serious moments, tries to show Rick's vulnerable side and stuff, but lampshading every other damn emotional scene makes it difficult to get invested
Or at least it does for me, I guess the public that this kind of humor attracts doesn't have that problem, and I respect that
This is modern "attack our fans" Hollywood in a nutshell.
Although I agree with what you said about Marvel, as in that it often undercuts it's emotional moments with a joke, as if it's insecure with it's own feelings, as weird as it sounds, I have to defend the Guardians of the Galaxy. The whole point of this movies is that it's characters are in the end a bunch of insecure people that hide behind layers and layers of mental barriers. For Quill it's humor, for Gamorra it's general coldness and distancing herself, Rocket is acting like an asshole and Drax is putting up sort of a macho act. The scene you presented, with Gamorra putting a knife to Quill's throat after holding hands with him, is hardly an exaple of emotional scene interrupted by a ha ha funny joke. It just showcasess the mental barriers both her and Quill have. He tries to woo her like any other woman because of his insecurities, and she feels threatened and overreacts because of her own barriers blocking her. It's completely in character for them and doesn't break the scene. In fact it would be weirder if they kissed here or something. It's the same with many scenes in Guardians. James Gunn manages to use Marvel style humor in an effective way, and can even enhance the drama by using it. It's a rare talent, and other writers of Marvel try to emulate the humor, but forget the character part, and hence we have the immersion breaking goofy jokes that are plaguing the MCU now.
I was gonna say something like this, but you beat me to it. Especially in the scene about "standing up in a circle", it seems to showcase Rocket's insecurity rather than the director's
I agree. I will also defend Ultron's lampshading in Age of Ultron because it is repeatedly emphasized in the movie that, despite being an AI, Ultron is a creature of emotion, not logic, and one of the ways that this manifests is that he subconsciously emulates Tony Stark in the same way a child that hates one of their parents would subconsciously copy them. Tony Stark wisecracks as a coping mechanism, so naturally Ultron wisecracks as well.
James Gunn is like the patron saint of MCU humor
It also doesn’t hurt in the second movie that the quipping keeps the general vibe lighthearted, otherwise the serious parts might seem a little too dark: Abusive parents, child abduction and trafficking, trauma from narcissistic abuse… there’s a lot for a movie that was supposed to be just another fun superhero movie.
The constant jokes kept things from going completely grimdark, and there ARE plenty of moments that get played completely straight (the funeral at the end with Cat Stevens playing makes me ugly cry every time.
The separation of artist from audience did not begin with the technology of cinema, but with writing. It really only became familiar to the general populace with the invention of movable type, and therefore inexpensive printing, which led to the rise of the novel as we know it today. And lampshading has been in novels from the beginning: Don Quixote is probably the earliest novel still widely read today, and it begins by telling the reader which romances it is parodying.
This should be a top comment
Well, taking into account what Lucian did in "A True Story", I wouldn't be surprised if there was some ancient example of lampshading as well. You don't need general populace to make jokes like that. A bunch of well-read readers is enough.
@Zalmoksis44 I considered Lucian too, so evidently great minds think alike. But I decided to stick to works widely-known then and now.
I often find it hard to tell whether ancient literature was meant to be read for pleasure, or recited as a performance for other people. Lucian probably belongs in the first category, Homer in the second.
I think writing is a bit different - because written stories usually require some sort of "author's narrative" to describe everything. So the possibility of such narrative to address the reader, is not that disruptive as it is for visual stories where we usually don't have it, we experience circumstances of the world directly.
For a story within a story, don’t forget about Monty Python and the Holy Grail
God that movie is amazing. The coconuts, the battle with the Black Knight, the fact that everyone except Arthur wears knitted wool instead of chainmail, and of course the interjections with the police investigation.
@@phntmthf5505 and how most the budget was obviously used on the wizard that is called Tim
They lampshaded the whole entire plot by having the modern day police show up and arrest everyone in the third act, ending the movie.
The ending was literally a cop out
Edit: spelling
@@AveragePearEnjoyer that was just Monty Python being unable to think of a proper ending, which was a recurring trope in the series.
"See if I care! Wear that thing for the rest of your life if you have to!"
Nishiki when Kiryu decided to wear his iconic gray suit for literally the rest of his life
Hey now, he tore it off *just* before he died.
Okay, let's be honest; I just assumed he was buying replacement suits periodically, and maybe that's where all the money goes between games; buying identical light gray suits to replace the ones that get destroyed by bad guys/Kiryu ripping them off of his back and obliterating every button on the suit.
@@LashknifeTalon I always assumed Kiryu has a closet full of identical outfits. Majima on the other hand definitely only has that one outfit, which he washes once a month, and stands in the laundromat in his underwear the whole time.
Worth mentioning: that exchange doesn't go the obvious way when Nishiki says that the suit isn't like Kiryu.
Instead of saying something like he'll grow into it, he says that he decides what it means to be himself from now on. A lot more unique and fitting into the ideal Kiryu aspires to.
2:52 Red breaking her own fourth wall actually made me stop and remember "oh right ... she's not talking to me"
My personal favorite lampshade is literally the entirety of The Stanley Parable. The whole damn thing is a lampshade,and that's what makes it great. That's HOW people get invested into it. It's great. It's the best.
I think my favorite lampshading moment happened in Galavant. When three main characters entered "The Forest of Coincidence."
I love that bit!
Galavant is nothing but lampshading but it works for the same reason emperors new groove does. It pulls it back in the serious bits and the rest is jokes. Also helps that the jokes are funny. Like the coincidence forest. And the gay bar with a womens toilet
ohh I've been meaning to watch that! I'll be looking forward to that bit now lol
Wow. Someone else remembers this series besides me. I thought it was brilliant... maybe it was just too cool for the room, or at least broadcast primetime.
Galavant is a brilliant example of wall-to-wall lampshade comedy. The magician/spiritual guide Xanax, the pirates not at sea, Sid wishing someone would invent the zipper, Galavant's tournament montage/sore muscles, the whole Giant's versus Dwarves bit, and basically every single song in the whole show are just Grade A lampshade gags.
I love Galavant so much.
One of my favorites is from The Phantom of the Opera:
"You'd never get away with all this in a play
But if it's loudly sung and in a foreign tongue
It's just the sort of story audiences' adore
In fact, it's the perfect opera!"
For sure! I also like Something Rotten, which is basically one big lampshade to the ridiculousness of musicals.
The Guy Who Didn't Like Musicals also lampshades musicals by making a villain out of the structure of the musical(technically it's an infectious alien hive mind, but the hive mind forces people to spontaneously sing and dance).
I just realized that the bit in Undertale where Sans hides Frisk behind a lamp in the open snowfield from his brother is probably also LITERALLY lampshading...
Oh it absolutely is. Specifically, the fact that he called it "a CONVENIENTLY-SHAPED lamp," thereby calling out how weirdly contrived it is that it's there. Of course, knowing Sans, I wouldn't be surprised if the lamp is both there and conveniently shaped because he put it there after making his promise to Toriel. So it would actually be contrived on a Watsonian level (by the characters) rather than a Doylist one (by the writer), which just makes it funnier.
In one of our larps that we run for Gen Con, there's a character who knows he's a character in a larp and he's attempting to complete a magical ritual to shatter the Fourth Wall.
The ritual requires getting all the other players to laugh.
That moment in the Incredibles where they are telling stories of their old superhero days and start laughing about how the villain starts monologueing was brilliant. I'm not sure if it was lampshading or just good worldbuilding but it acknowledges a common superhero tropewhile establishing it as part of the setting. I think it fits the definition you gave.
And then Syndrome brings it up later "You got me monologueing."
There needs to be a term for non-fourth wall-addressing "lampshading." I'm writing a couple stories and I try to have my characters do that kind of thing and not the kind that affects the 4th wall. Something like "this is a weird coincidence that xyz is happening" isn't usually a fourth wall break because IRL we notice weird coincidences like if a sign says Dead End and there's a cemetery next to it.
In that sort of sense, it's... Technically lampshading worked into the worldbuilding? Like, it's not just that the characters are aware of or commenting on the tropes, it's that the tropes are genuine in-universe phenomena, just accepted as the way things work. You often see this in parodic or deconstructive superhero media like the Incredibles, mostly just because comics are known for being incredibly silly and tropey, but in a way where fans of the medium generally *enjoy* the tropes and would rather see them played with than outright dismissed.
Also "No Cape!"
Why they would have capes in the "real world", they make sense in the comic books and such (to create the impression of motion), but have no practical reasoning in real life.
@@carloshenriquezimmer7543 Some have useful capes but usually those don't fly. Like Batman's. He glides and I think It can be used to protect his face and body. But like Superman doesn't need a cape, though he'd not actually be at risk of harm. But yeah, practically a cape is a poor choice.
"If this were played upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction." 'Twelfth Night' act 3, sc. 4
I’m not sure but I think my school’s current play (in development) sort of does this. It’s a play within a play within a play, but was originally written for Tv. And one of the characters says to the playwright within story, “If it flops you can always sell it to television”
I’m being reminded of that one scene in The Disastrous Life of Saiki K. where one of the characters appears to be able to see those symbols that often appear at anime or manga characters’ heads to highlight emotion, or knows the chapter title and such, and the main character, who knows he’s the protagonist, goes “wait, you can see those too?!”
I like how Red is still using the original drawing of herself even though we can see how her art has improved so much over the years, and the avatar herself is the proving point of reference to that fact.
Pretty sure she is postponing the change until she gets to the trope of "Art evolution".
@@migmit hallelujah
@@migmit if she does, that'll be fucking amazing. Like a "Portals Endgame" kind of moment!
She actually had a rougher avatar back in the day, but this one is pretty old
I'm glad you used LEGO footage when talking about Bathos, because the sequel's finale uses it perfectly. The whole story is meant to be fun and comedic, but every time I watch it, the ending makes me tear up multiple times, and the lampshade gets put on *_JUST_* in time to stop the waterworks. It's like a big slow build of 'please no I don't want a sad' and then a sudden 'THANK YOU I DID NOT WANT A SAD' and then it dips right back into 'oh no its giving me another sad.'
I'm so glad someone said this!! The writing in that movie constantly amazes me
The Bible is truth. Please take your salvation seriously. At least read three books of the Bible, Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself. Remember that As you do, to genuinely open your heart up to the teachings Jesus Christ taught. Start with forgiveness. Parents are easiest. They’ve loved you to some degree. Forgiveness heals your soul. Please, trust me. Genuinely break down before Jesus Christ and ask for forgiveness. It is extremely important. Please.
All who seek find,
Jesus Christ is Lord,
Bathos is a great in disrupting an otherwise too heavy moment. Thus, especially the more lighthearted shows benefit from it a lot, since it allows them to delve into deeper emotions - briefly - without betraying the overall tone.
TBH, I get the impression that Red was bringing it up as a negative example b/c she didn't like that part of the movie (same as me), but I'm glad you got to enjoy it, at least!
@@jamesmayle3787 dude I dont think anyone's gonna convert to Christianity because of a UA-cam comment that has nothing to do with the video. You're about as effective as a pop up ad rn.
You definitely touched on my problem with the MCU. It really wants to be seen as Serious Art, but it's so afraid of being genuine in almost every movie. It's like a 14 year-old who thinks that having emotions is lame.
I'll never forget when I apologised to my art teacher after taking more time to finish my art piece than everyone else and telling her that some of the pieces hadn't dried properly so it hadn't turned out the way I wanted it to.
She told me she understood and that it was fine, but not to tell my classmates that. It taught me a very important lesson about sabotaging yourself to your audience.
Owl House had a lampshade moment in season 2 that also functioned as a burn at Disney. Luz said they would have a beach episode if they had time for 20 more adventures, calling out the show being shortened.
Every time I remember that Disney sucks ass and did that, I have the urge to burn down every Disney building.
And it hurt me deeply.
Yeah season 3 opens with a montage including a bi presentation/coming out, acceptance and then rainbows and bi flags. But they weren't cancelled because they have a bi main character so I'm sure that pointedly prideful scene is just coincidence *looks to the camera*
They also do some lampshading with Harry Potter. First with the Choosey Hat (that eats people) and then with Grudgby's weird rule where if a player catches a single MacGuffin, their team wins the whole game, which makes the hard work and training of both teams effectively pointless.
@@poxidog I’m not entirely sure that’s real, but I guess their isn’t a way to know…
I feel like there's lampshading as a self aware writer and running with it, and lampshading as hiding insecurity. Like you pointed out, Bathos is everywhere in modern entertainment nowadays, and I feel like a lot of important stuff gets swept under the rug because the writers don't want to use these amazing well-defined tropes because they're "clichéd" like paragon heroes
Lampshading as self aware is part of the Super Robot Wars series appeal to me. The audience is supposed to know all of the clichésabout Mecha and love them enough to have them all at once. They're akcknowledged, even built upon, but never mocked.
I particularly like the lampshading that happens in Symphogear: the protagonist is trained by watching action movies and has a literal training montage, but it's also clear that the show is fully committed and aware of the tropes of magical girl and action anime, and they never undercut the emotional beats. If anything, the number of improbable coincidences that end up making the story more exciting is lampshaded sometimes just to point out "we're doing this on purpose to make this more exciting."
The Bible is truth. Please take your salvation seriously. At least read three books of the Bible, Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself. Remember that As you do, to genuinely open your heart up to the teachings Jesus Christ taught. Start with forgiveness. Parents are easiest. They’ve loved you to some degree. Forgiveness heals your soul. Please, trust me. Genuinely break down before Jesus Christ and ask for forgiveness. It is extremely important. Please.
All who seek find,
Jesus Christ is Lord,
The most recent example of this that I can think of is in Season 2 of Rise of the teenage mutant ninja turtles. It’s so fast but Donnie taps his lil tech-arm cuff thing and is like “huh. one season later and I still have full battery, nice!” and it’s wonderful lmao
One of my favorite lampshade moments, it's literally just a wink and a nudge, is in boy meets world. When Corey and Shawn need to be in two places at once, Shawn brings up the idea to just run between both locations and only spend a few minutes at a time in each spot. He mentions that he saw it in a cartoon (I forget which one), and Corey mentions that this is real life, not a TV show, and Shawn is just like "trust me, it's the same thing."
I love the part in Spider-Verse where Spider-Noir just comments, "Wow, this is a harsh origin story." Because that draws attention to the fact that _this is a Spider-Man origin story._ It doesn't undercut the emotions, but it basically just looks at you and says, "Get ready because this is gonna get even worse." And then... well, what Spider-Man origin story would be complete without an uncle dying?
The Bible is truth. Please take your salvation seriously. At least read three books of the Bible, Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself. Remember that As you do, to genuinely open your heart up to the teachings Jesus Christ taught. Start with forgiveness. Parents are easiest. They’ve loved you to some degree. Forgiveness heals your soul. Please, trust me. Genuinely break down before Jesus Christ and ask for forgiveness. It is extremely important. Please.
All who seek find,
Jesus Christ is Lord,
@@jamesmayle3787 Is... Is that a christopasta? Wow.
One story I started writing in college, but the for various reasons never finished, involved an evil cult run by an ancient undead sorcerer who was basically just a cooky old man trying to conquer the world for a hobby - think Senor Senior Senior, but magical - trying to acquire this bronze statue of a naked woman, which the minions assumed was some kind of fertility idol. The twist at the end was that it wasn't an idol at all, it was just a fancy lamp. So, the whole story was about the characters pursuing a sexy lamp. And at the end, the sorcerer hung a lampshade on it.
I love playing with tropes in silly ways.
that is actually freakin brilliant
Please finish this story.
Sometimes I need to read silly but brilliant stories like this to not keep my mind always invested in writing my usual horror stuff. So please, actually finish this story, as you seem to have an extreme potential in creating an absolutely excellent story.
I love it.
Heck yeah, found another Kim Possible fan in the wild. In a hilarious anecdote, to boot :D
I had a feeling (and a hope) that when Red brought up story-within-a-story that she was going to mention Princess Bride. Was not disappointed.
Supernatural has had its terrible lampshading moments, but you have to admit Sam and Dean being stuck with a couple cosplaying them and roleplaying very personal family arguments was a pretty hilarious use of it
My favorite movie, Surf's Up, is actually a really good example of a story within a story, as the film itself is an in universe documentary. The characters regularly acknowledge the film crew recording and asking questions, but you're still invested in the story because you know all the "fourth wall breaks" they make is really just them in universe talking to the camera like anyone would in a documentary.
I wish there more mock documentary style animated movie like Surf's Up. Too bad those kind of stuff only end up in history channel for "History must be non-fiction because they are real" kind of problem
Oh! Surf's Up was such a good movie, with the chillest soundtrack.
The works of Michael Schur (The Good Place, Brooklyn Nine-Nine, Parks and Rec) are some of the best examples of sincere lampshading. The type of lampshading that doesn’t distract from the story or reveal insecurity about it but rather enhances it. When a character is excited the writing will highlight the absurdity of what they’re excited about, not necessarily the fact that they are excited, and when the real emotional beats happen they’re more impactful
GAH, the Good Place was so good!
@@josephperez2004 I know it was soooo good. It was one of the few nonanimated shows where the ending was amazing imo it was just so satisfying.
On a side note Life Unexpected has the worse ending imo because they decided to write an ending because it was going to get cancelled so they threw all the plot points from the last season out the window in one episode and made up a perfect happy ending that made no sense. Ending the series on a unresolved season finale cliffhanger would had been better than tainting the show for me with that ending. While, You, me and the apocalypse has the most infuriating endings that was deliberately planned from the start.
@@safehouse432 If you think that's one of the few live-action television shows with a good ending, you need to watch more television.
Start with Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul.
@@Nai-qk4vp those are there too what I mean is so many of them end in 1 of 3 ways that is never satisfying.
1. They cancel the series so we get left with a cliffhanger that never gets resolved.
2. And so the story goes on in an unending adventure that you will have to use your imagination to find out.
3. Half assed ending that was made just to end the series before the cancelation.
@@safehouse432 There are also those times when a show has a natural end but its ending still isn't great. Like Brooklyn Nine-Nine had to end when it did, and while its ending wasn't bad, it wasn't especially good either.
Lampshade is an interesting way to divert attention from foreshadowing plot elements. The audience is tricked from assuming that a plot element that is relevant is meaningless at first.
"No capes!"
After watching this video I now realize that my manuscript is chock-full of lampshading. I think when I was writing it, I had this mentality where I almost had to outsmart my own audience, because I expected my readers to be very trope-savvy. But a side effect of this is that my character's snarky banter often skirts dangerously close to outright breaking the fourth wall, which is the opposite of what I intended. I'll have to pay close attention to this for my final round of revisions.
As a writer I feel incredibly called out by "don't preemptively apologize for your art"
As an artist, I also felt that. :/
Same.
As a writer I agree with it. Hell I have characters who probably would be highly controversial. And you know what I say? So what
Sir Terrys approach to this is one of the things i like about discworld. He lampshades and pokes fun at some typical fantasy elements sometimes, but those tropes and narratives still MATTER within the world itself. They still have the same emotional impact, even if the characters are aware of it.
I wrote about this recently. The disc runs on Narrativium, but it is very hard for most people to weaponize it. In Guards, Guards the watch tries to adjust so that the arrow shot at the dragons voonerables is exactly million-to-one odds (which always succeed.) They miss by one or two parts to the million - but the odds of their surviving the dragon’s return salvo are exactly a million-to-one.
Its great for parody, because Terry puts these classical fantasy tropes next to real world tropes and conventions of society. This makes the audience question how rational our own biases are.
@@notthemusewere the "million-to-one odds" bit was what made me fall in love with the series for this very reason. It's a direct fourth wall break which, despite that, is still incredibly impactful. GNU Pterry.
A million to one odds succeeds nine times out of ten.
I don't know how he did it, but he managed to make satire that you can take seriously, something I've never seen anywhere else
When I acted on stage, I felt more at ease to perform because the silence of the audience was like a consent, “Ok, we’re here now. Do you’re thing please.” Their subtle indicators helped me feel out how they were engaging, which helped me feel out how I was engaging in the story. I suppose I miss that last part the most.
My favorite lampshade is actually in a super serious horror film. In the original Alien during the scene where Ash is attacking Ripley, there's a part where the camera jostles some knick-knacks hanging around the ship. When it happens, Ash gives a menacing look directly into the camera as if to tell the viewer "You're next" before continuing his attack on Ripley. It's very subtle, but very effective.
One of my personal favorite methods of Lampshading comes from Kamen Rider. Most of us are aware of the "Bad guys don't attack while the Hero is transforming" trope. It applies to Kamen Rider as well as every other show like it. The way certain seasons of KR answer this question is really cool. The effects flying around are physical objects, and the few villains willing to try and interrupt a Henshin usually end up smacked upside the head by what we assumed to be set dressing .
And as a bonus, every now and then someone times their transform to use it as a projectile weapon.
It's like in Power Rangers RPM where one of the characters points out the background explosions that has been a staple in the series. It gets an in-universe explanation, and one of the characters later uses the background explosion to take out some bad guys.
Kaizoku Sentai Gokaiger (the one with the space pirate heroes) has them actively use their transformation to block attacks, more than once. It's a nice touch.
(Their crossover movie with Space Sheriff Gavan has a quick little comparison about how long their transformations take from the outside, and notes that it creates a forcefield around 'em.)
@@Technodreamer Ressha Sentai Toqger (the train one) is my favorite way to explain why the villains dont attack: they have to stay behind the white line. We see one instance of what happens if they don’t, they get knocked away by the trains that appear during the Henshin (since the trains have arrived to the “station”)
@@Rexvils That's fantastic :D
OSP quote of the week "Gosh Red I just love those dulcet tones of yours; I could listen to you meander around the point forever!"
Also, yes. That is why we're here red; this is why we like the chaos reins streams.
This was actaully ann extremely important lesson for me not to apologize for my own photography before showing it to others.
The fact that this video came out within a week of the She-Hulk season 1 finale is a God-Tier universe coincidence. Unless red is hiding the fact that she knows someone at Marvel >_>
Wow, I didn't realize how critical of a topic this would be at first glance. This is like eating a meal and thinking there's something off about it, and then having someone come in and say "it's the garlic, because you're allergic to it". Mind-expanding, in fewer words.
Great work as always!
This reminds me of a reddit post. Raised in a conservative family, a girl thought she was a romantic and with 0 sex drive, until she randomly discovered she was gay.
@@destroyerinazuma96 Girl was like "Why am I not attracted to anyone", promptly looked the other way and was like "No, Im just gay" which is absolutely based
@@CrowAkechi_The_Luminary Reminds me of a reddit thread where a girl raised in a super traditional family said for years she thought she had no sex drive until she found out she was gay.
I'm a DM for a D&D group, and your trope talks have helped me SO SO MUCH.
Thanks for everything you do on this platform!
The whole playlist of trope talk made me understand what makes a homebrew story a good one
This is truth.
Same here, definitively
A very good example of lampshading is in the 2nd season of The Amazing World Of Gumball - the voice actors for the lead characters Gumball and Darwin were changed, and the cast chose to show this by having an episode where Gumball and Darwin freak out over their voice changes through the lens of boys going through puberty. It was hilarious, realistic, and a clever way to acknowledge the change in voice actors.
Personally, my favorite instance comes in Order of the Stick. It's a highly self-aware stick figure fantasy comic that nonetheless manages to capture all sorts of sincere emotion and heavy themes, so lampshade hanging is fairly common - to the extent that at one point, there's a lampshade hung ABOUT LAMPSHADE HANGING. It's great.
One of my favorite bits of lampshading is in Lupin iii (in the dub anyway) where they’re hiding from gunfire behind an overturned table and Jigen says “Thank god for all these bullet-proof tables they got everywhere nowadays!”
My favourite is the narrative in Guards Guards by Terry Pratchett where the men of the Watch acknowledge that to kill the dragon it'd have to be a one million shot according to the stories, so they take steps to make the shot more difficult, and when they miss they dismiss the shot as the not actually being a million to one. Completely acknowledging the forth wall, flirting with breaking it then not actually doing so.
The Bible is truth. Please take your salvation seriously. At least read three books of the Bible, Genesis Mathew and one book you chose yourself. Remember that As you do, to genuinely open your heart up to the teachings Jesus Christ taught. Start with forgiveness. Parents are easiest. They’ve loved you to some degree. Forgiveness heals your soul. Please, trust me. Genuinely break down before Jesus Christ and ask for forgiveness. It is extremely important. Please.
All who seek find,
Jesus Christ is Lord,
@@jamesmayle3787 dude, spamming the comment section of random videos is not going to get anybody to convert to your religion, it’s just going to piss people off and make them less likely to take your religion seriously.
@@BLZ231 I don't know, 10 minutes ago I was a staunch atheist. After reading just a few sentences of that spam, I'm now seriously considering dropping to my knees and pray for an opportunity to suck Christs' magnificent balls if that'll get his daddy (who is also himself) to let me into paradise or w/e. Why beg for forgiveness when you can beg for holy cock?
I love Terry Pratchett so much. He really understood how to absolutely demolish the fourth wall without breaking the reader's immersion.
Terry Pratchett is the master of lamp shading. He’s constantly picking fun at his own world and somehow makes you more invested at the same time
Princess Bride and Emperor’s new Groove were two of my favorite movies growing up and really shaped my sense of humor
Red, I just saw the finale of She-Hulk and MAN THE WRITERS SHOULD HAVE SEEN THIS VIDEO! The basically committed every single cardinal sin of lampshading you discussed!
And yet i couldn't hate it.
Is hearing Red's voice the highlight of anybody else's day?
me-me-me!
cringing at stans like you is the low point of my day
What's hilarious is that I love both Red and Rlue's voices for different reasons. XD
Red's voice is exciting and fun, Blue's is just plain soothing. :P
Might be a bit weird, but when I think about anything from a literary analysis point, I hear her voice in my head instead of my own
And I too just loved Re-Boot and watched up to season 4. It would be great if Red spoon fed me more media reccomendations