When discussing the Screwtape Letters, C. S. Lewis said it was revolting to try to think from the demons' perspective for the sake of writing them as characters; it was not a _fun_ experience. Your speech in that final segment reminded me of that.
Wow, yes I can relate to that. I figure that when it comes to my writing and rpg adventures, if the evil creatures don't convey a vileness that disturbs you, then I'm not doing my job.
Really love the last bit in this video, very inspirational. Even if you're the DM and you're playing out all these malevolent acts, you still want to see good rise and defeat it.
I remember watching Literature Devil's video on "Is Superman Relevant today," and comparing modern comic book writer's glorification of villains. To make a long video short: today's modern comic book writer's seem to think, heroes arent relatable because they don't struggle. That the villains are more relatable, because, "They were hurt, so they lash out. To make feel what they've had to go through." While characters like Superman are seen as boring, because of the perceived notion that, "they are just there to beat up the bad guy." No. Superman does struggle with temptation, but his devotion to do the right thing, and drive to inspire others to take responsibility, is what makes him relatable. "A world Made of Cardboard," speech from the Justice League cartoon speaks volumes to superman's character. As well as his speech to Manchester Black about why he'll never take a life in the comic book, "What's So Funny About 'Truth Justice, and The American Way' " comes to mind. So in summary, F**k the demon lords!
Great comment here. I can certainly appreciate writers wanting to explore complex villains, but a Joker movie without Batman? Maleficent without Prince Phillip and the fairy godmothers? It's like a restaurant only serving you the appetizer and the dessert, or playing tennis by yourself without a net.
The was a fantastic description from Batman about Superman: "In a strange way, Clark is the most human of us all. Then he rains fire from the sky, and it is hard not to think him a god, and how fortunate for us that the same does not occur to him"
While many Demons are naturally spawned by the Abyss, many Tanar'ri Demons (most demons you see in the MM) come from Chaotic Evil souls that descend to the Abyss Then there are the Obyrith demons (Like Sibriexes and Dagon), who came from another cosmology all together, they got their homeworld destroyed and moved to the Great Wheel to start over by forming the Abyss there.
Obyriths were a real nasty bunch. Back in 4e Pazuzu was pretty much the one responsible for corrupting Asmodeus into betraying his god. Then you have Pale Night whose true form is so antithetical to the very cosmos that a mere glimpse of it erases your existence. The Obyriths were also the ones who made Tharizdun lose his marbles and create the Abyss.
@@daikaijugamer AND one of them - Pale Night - is Graz'zt's mother, and possibly mother to other demon lords and possibly the whole tanar'ri race. AND, supposedly, the Queen of Chaos (the BBEG of the Rod of Seven Parts epic adventure also an obyrith) created Demogorgon via one of her early experiments, and HE was considered a failed prototype!
@@briancorvello3620 Did you not read my comment...? About Tanar'ri coming from Chaotic Evil souls? Also Pale Night being Graz'zt mom is presented is something ancient texts proclaimed, not as a fact
I feel like the majority of Lore in d&d is told through text in one form or another. Whether ancient text or some wizard/God/aberration writing a book, lots of lore is deliberately secondhand information, to leave room for interpretation. But the idea of Grazz't being pale night/Asmodeus child is given enough supportive evidence to be believable
@@agentchaos9332 Depends on the writer, I guess. Of course, the claim that Graz'zt is Pale Night's son was made by Graz'zt himself, not the most reliable source there. Same with his relationship with Iggwilv. Most sources say they're enemies and that simply mentioning the affair between them will cause him to fly into rage; but a Fourth Edition write-up on Graz'zt claims that Iggwilv is his "ally and occasional lover". Yeah, Fourth Edition, I know, but again, demons aren't the most honest of sources.
Well that's because undeath is the most inherently evil state of being that exists. Wizards of the Coast have not been shy in saying that the creation of undead creatures is, in itself, an abhorrently evil act. There is nothing redeemable about it. Therefore, a demon who seeks to lay waste to all life so that he might raise them as his undead servants, and a dragon who seeks to turn himself into a lich to gain power beyond reckoning (to hark back to the dragon video), are definitely the two most evil subcategories of both demons and dragons. If Orcus was just a demon lord who wanted to enslave everyone as his servants, yes he'd still be very evil. But, it's because he does it through undeath - ergo defiling the body and denying it of any peace, that his level of evil transcends that of his peers.
@@wisdomcare5839 the most chaotic Is Ygorl, lord of entropy, from mordenkainen's Fiendish folio. He's a slaadi lord in Limbo. In the abyss, between Demigorgon/ Baphomet, if we only count beings with 5e stats. The literal queen of chaos from older editions trumps them both tho
@@esperthebard Well, you seemed to rank certain demons as more evil simply for their connection to undeath. Depending on how it is used, undeath is little more than a (temporary) escape from the cruel cycle of life and death, unforced upon mortals by the damnable gods
Somehow I find the two headed demon lord interesting. Two heads that hate each other so much that they want to destroy everything because they can't kill each other. I can imagine that one side of their faces might have bite marks from the moments when one head tilts just a little too close towards the other.
Revelation is scary man, I search for narrative excerpts to read to my players as the thoughts or words of NPC's just like I search and save maps....well that revelation verse is goin in the bank!
I've so been looking forward to this! Thank you for another great video! I agree with you in your analysis (the annihilation of the soul is the ultimate evil), and how evil itself is an oddly intriguing topic. Perhaps because it is at once relatable and alien, understandable and inexplicable? We want to pin it down and expose it to the light, yet recoil in horror when we do. There's something fascinating about gazing into the well of evil, so long as we neither drink from it nor fall in to its depths.
Thank you, Jones the Owl! It's crazy how we rarely stop to think about what we're doing. But if you take a step back and observe, you can catch yourself allured to the shadow. Like you said, we take a peek, and what we find lurking in the underbelly might be repulsive or might be buried treasure. Indeed, the key is to make sure you don't drown in the darkness, but rather harness it for the good.
Easily demogorgon two personalities causes madness to those who get close enough or see him. One personality just a monster that wants to kill, and the other the calculating, and smart killer that is on par with Stalin Grazt just wants to conquer the upper planes by uniting the lower planes and he enjoys perverse pleasure Fraz just loves his schemes and his superiority But second most evil is the godhood seeker killer of primus orcus dies alot but is the scariest necromancer ever, and just wants everyone to die including his servants he just wants them to kill everything, and he wants to die but he can't he just keeps coming back Edit I just rate orcus lower because I think he would rather kill all things then make you a undead slave
You’re correct about the most dangerous, but when it comes to evil Orcus puts everyone to shame. He hates everything, he even hates the undead but they make the best slaves, and unlife is a mockery of everything the multiverse represents, it’s breaking the law of the multiverse and not allowing a soul to move on to their given afterlife. Creating undead is one of the most evil acts you can do in D&D, regardless of all the memes about the good-hearted necromancer, there is no such thing.
You forgot Fraz wants to murder all humans. And I mean every single human. Along with eating their souls. Fraz and Grazz'zt are the most dangerous. As they have the long term plans. That are filled with extreme genocide and soul eating.
I think while Orcus's ambitions are terrible they're also pretty idealistic. Pazuzu on the other hand lives to turn that which is good into evil, he doesn't even bother with evil people and afflicts only those with good hearts.
Thank you for the brighter side at the end.. And thank you for being there for us. To me I first got on with the DnD content of your channel which reminded me of simpler times 30 years ago when I was playing. But then amongst the monstrosities and other abominations I found one of the most human dude on the web. The honesty I feel here is so rarely otherwise encountered on the net that I re-watch some vids just for soothing and comfort when things get dark irl. So, by all means, thank You.
That means a lot, Karl! Life can be crazy, confusing, and very dark at times. You have my best wishes and my encouragement to keep going, to keep seeking the star shining in the darkest night.
Esper I love your D&D content. Very creative guy with a good mind for the lore and your own brand of storytelling. Keep it up. And thank you for another great video.
Dude! Nice afterthoughts and closing statements! I agree 100%! The darkness within yourself must be confronted and conquered and then help others to do the same with the wisdom you've gained. This is why I love D&D so much! I love reading between the lines and allegory. D&D is not a celebration of evil or vile things. It's a safe place to explore those dark inner curiosities and destroy them with the light of creativity...with friends! Oh, man, I could go on and on. But seriously. Thanks for all the hard work you do. You've inspired me to keep going on my own campaign creation. Peace and blessings, Esper. Ha! The bard thing is working for us both here.
Thank you so much! I also could go on and on about this topic. There is something so compelling and engaging about that razor's edge where good and evil are grappling in mortal battle. Do you ever find that you can direct your anger or frustration constructively to make yourself focus on a productive task and accomplish some work?
Thanks man, I'm very glad you liked that part. As you had your own nightmare-haunting by Lolth, you know how disturbing it can get if you spend enough time gazing into the Abyss. But fortunately, I've learned that if you gaze far enough, past the darkest bottom of it all, there is a positive force, like an imprisoned ancestral spirit that you can tap into. After death comes new birth, after the darkest hour comes the new dawn. That's also why I designed the "Abyss" result of Wheel of Fate as I did.
I always loved how you had to roll to see if your character would be paralyzed with fear when encountering some of these demons, and creatures. My DM had some fun once and our whole group was slaughtered by a high powered demon because none of us had enough constitution to raise a weapon, or cast a spell.
I really appreciate what you had to say at the end of the video. I recently got into D&D and it's already so much more than a game to me. And many of the things we experience and learn in the game can be constructively applied to real life. Thank you for taking the time to make this video. It meant a lot to me!
I like your little commentary at the end very good speech. You made some very good heartfelt points. No matter how dark things get in the abyss just look up to the light. Can always find help there.
Here is the best way to do aligment in d&d: Don't. Seriously, I don't get nerds. You all spent DECADES whining how bad aligment is and arguing about it and complaining how it ruins your games. So they downplayed it...and you all are complaining that it was downplayed. It's like you WANT to be angry.
I started dnd in 85. None of us liked alignment then. Just never felt like it fit. Lawful good was often seen as lawful stupid. Chaotic neutral was just an excuse to be an idiot. Through the years I’ve let it go. I’ve played a dozen other games without it and didn’t miss it. Now that I’m back to dnd I use alignment as cosmic forces only. People can be good and evil, but beyond that it just feels forced. YMMV
@@davewilson13 The fact that you distilled down alignment to stupidity and idiocy tells everyone that it isn't alignment that you have a problem with, but the people you play with.
Neutral Evil is the most evil alignment. Lawful Evil you just follow the society that you are born into. Chaotic Evil you are instinctive and do not fully understand your actions. Neutral Evil you have to willingly with sound mind and without outside coercion do Evil.
I mean, depends on your reading of alignment. I like 2e's since that is what I started with and probably the last time they gave any real thought to alignment. It gives a scenario where a blackguard (using the classic definition) has kidnaped a peasant and will therefore be a very tough fight and what every member of the party would do. This also includes a bit about sharing treasure and paying to raise their fallen. The NE person just wants the loot, they will get involved in the fight if they are threatened and will gladly loot instead of fighting, but won't put themselves at risk. The alignment description also includes a bit that they won't feel bad about betraying their friends if it is in line with personal gain. Archetypes are common thieves, unscrupulous mercs, and double crossing infromers. CE on the other hand, will stay at the back of dangerous combats to 'guard the rear' and planning to stab their friends in the back if it looks they will lose. After the fight, he notices the rest of the group is weak and demands all of the loot or he will kill them. They believe 'might makes right' and will only band together with anyone when forced to by a much greater threat in either support or opposition. Archetypes are bloodthirsty buccaneers and low INT monsters. CN is actually the alignment for people who do not understand their actions who does whatever feels right at the moment. Considered the most difficult alignment to play and archetypes are lunatics and madmen. I double checked all of them, and I think the one with the absolutely greatest capacity for large scale evil is probably LG. The utilitarians.
That is incorrect because things vary so much. It's better to think of good/evil as a spectrum, and law/chaos as a spectrum. A character could be in a neutral position on the law/chaos axis and just a little into the evil side of the good/evil axis. Think of creatures like mephits, zombies, and giant vultures. They are NE, but they are far from being the most evil.
I think inteligent n.e. Can be the most evil. Chaos is chaos even chaotic evil could do some thing good if it suited their whimes, lawful evil could do the same but from the inadvertent out come neutral evil thou now that is more "chaotic" his means only even justify his means he is not swayed by trappings of moral or wild drives , that wasn't his goal , he gained nothing from it , may have not even known he would cause it , even if he did its a bonus the riches was the goal
Much appreciated! What kind of creature would you like to see an evil analysis for? Undead perhaps? Or maybe a look at which dragon is the most good-aligned?
Love the conclusion... And you are right , we all enjoy to travel through dreams and nightmares seeking for wisedom or just the wonders of adventures in the Unknown... you are the true heir of the Shamans of old times dozens of thousand years ago when men, women and children gathered up around the bonfire under the stars at the entry of the cave where the dancing shadows made the paintings more alive with the legends teached by the Shaman.... Thank you so much to remind us this time when myths were not only poetic but mostly our way of life !
Many thanks, O Temporal Wayfarer of the Crimson Cloak! I suppose mythic storytelling is in my blood! Just a little teaser: I cannot wait until I get back to doing narrated adventures ;)
The "most evil demon" isn't one that looks or acts like a giant monsterous brute with tentacles, multiple heads or a nightmare visage. Granted, all those are horrible, Lovecraftian like monsters that stalk & butcher like no one's business, but the truly insidious demons are the ones that can put their own carnal natures aside & plan for the long game. Examples of such are Malcanthet & Grazzt. They can be polite, act civil, be a wonderful host as they lie & deceive you. Get you to succumb to your worst instincts and make deals. If you can somehow resist or foil their long term plans, only then will you face their physical wraith or at least that of their minions as you are assaulted & torn limb from limb. This could take days, weeks or even months and no mortal is immune. They take great delight in corrupting such souls, the more innocent the better. In my view, these are the worst of the worst of demonkind, as a quick & bloody death is at least a release as opposed to willingly joining their ranks.
I’d say that on a Cosmic scale those might be the most scary to actually deal with and be the most dangerous to specifically good people, but while they are a mockery of virtue, the demons that make mockery of all life itself regardless of alignment, like Orcus are the most cosmically evil and dangerous to everything, not just good-aligned creatures.
If the Abyssal lore is your favorite you’re a real one I always felt like. I agree with your last part but for me it’s no mystery why Abyssal lore is so dope
If we're talking " pureblood" Tanari abyssal demons, I'd probably give it to Orcus. But as soon as you open it up to other fiends, Most of the obyriths/ yugoloths represent a much deeper level of evilness. Ob-ox obb and the queen of chaos both want to corrupt the entirety of the multiverse until its a single dying mass of diseased flesh beneath their control, destroy all life and then probably move on to a new multiverse after they wring ours dry. Pazuzu actively enjoys screwing pure, noble and innocent souls over and causing them to fall, this is more insidious then orcus, jubilex Zuggutmoy or demigorgons goals( all life to undeath for the sake of quiet& order, ooze everywhere, fungus everywhere, and the death of the other head) meanwhile, the Yugoloths were ritually purged of all law & order in a grand ritual by the general of genhenna, literally purifying them as the most evil fiends. The actual most Evil beings in D&D aren't demons, but the Baernaloths, the progenitors of the yugoloths, with first place probably going to the General himself. Or possibly Pale night. Pale Night could be the cruelest of all but she's too alien to understand her thought process
The Baernaloths are horrendously evil in a way basically nothing else is. There's not even a selfish edge to it, they just destroy on instinct. They are essentially rogue malignant bodies that attack the multiversal system. Most evil alignment is based around doing literally whatever it takes to get what you want. Liches kill thousands of people and destroy their souls, but they're seeking immortality. Hags corrupt and ruin because it's what makes them happy. Devils get souls to damn themselves because they're on a mission and willing to take someone's eternity for it. Orcs kill and pillage because it is their cultural imperative, warfare is how they gain status, wealth, and provide resources for the tribe. Dragons raid and hoard because a hoard is needed for them to grow and to have a place in their society. Rakshasas are manipulative and feast on the flesh of intelligent races, but they're after pleasure, freedom, and renown. Nightwalkers want to kill, but it's because it's in their nature to kill. But a baernaloth doesn't want anything. They don't seek riches, they don't seek power, they don't seek fame, they don't even seek torment. They just harm and destroy for no other reason than because they can. And it's almost truly impossible to get rid of a baenaloth. They are like a malignancy that fundamentally wants to exist just to be harmful. They are the root of evil and does evil for no sake other than they exist.
A great way to hammer home the evil and power of Nabasu is to have them kill spiritual undead, which though usually evil, I find nothing more horrifying than a spirit being eaten right in front of you, especially a friendly ghost, for instance
What were you expecting? Genuine question, not sarcasm. I actually was not super happy with the title and wondered if it should be something like "Searching for the Most Evil Demon and Demon Lord in D&D", but that was a little too long.
If we count pazuzu he wins, because he goes out of his way to corrupt the pure and numbe souls, to turn them to evil. 99% of demons just want to kill your ass. Pazuzu wants you too damn yourself by your own hand, and then spend eternity agonizing over what you've become as you serve him. Pale night, admittedly may be the ultimate evil but since she's portrayed as super alien we can't understand her thought process or goals to judge that. Dagon I would actually say is one of the least evil demon lords/ oberyths just because by their standards he's...actually pretty chill. The only Oberyth to bow down to/ ally with demigorgon, doesn't have any lore really about aggressively invading material worlds or taking a big part in the blood war. Yeah he has cultists and those cultists are usually crazy but that's all demon lords. Dagon is just vibing being D&D cthulu until you do something to get his attention.
Ngl some of this felt like reading a book report and the end was just corny but I have to appreciate you teaching about demon lords because I was having a hard time finding info on them and this taught me a lot about them
Hey Esper, great video man! I`m curious to known why you thing that 5e tone down on alignment was a mistake. For me this sub-system is a relic of the past that player characters should not choose or put on the character sheet, so for me it was great. And as a recommendation I would suggest 'The Book of Fiend' written by Robert Schwalb and published by Green Ronin, it goes in depth in all of fiend related stuff for 5E!
Thank you! The alignment system has its flaws. Sometimes, things can get so nuanced, blurry, or complicated, that it's difficult to put one single alignment on someone. But reducing it or removing it creates even worse problems, it disorients the game and removes identity from the various races/creatures. If anything can be anything, then everything is nothing. Alignment gives us powerful archetypes and a sort of traction or launchpad from which we can move forward. Just look at the amount of debates and discussions that alignment creates, there is something potent at play. Stripping that away and replacing it with nothing is a poor move.
I have removed alignment in my home campaign and how I handle it is demons and all being from outer planes have innate nature, for example demons are beings of entropy and personal freedom with no care for others but they are not chaotic evil
I'd be really interested in seeing a video from you on Liches, taking a super deep-dive into their lore, etc, as well as looking at the things you can/could do with them as a campaign villain, as well as becoming one as a player
@@esperthebard Haha well if I was to give a selfish answer, I'd say a lich video! But, keeping in theme with your two recent videos, I think an analysis of the different levels of evil across undeath would be most fitting. Maybe once that's done you could do more in-depth deep dives on prominent themes across all the different evil brackets, i.e. a deep dive on liches for undeath, and so on
@@Foretelling That gives me a lot of good options for possible videos to consider. One thing I keep in mind is that there are lots of lore channels out there, some of which are quite good, so I try to keep things fairly unique. I'm strongly considering doing a video seeking out the good-aligned dragon.
“For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods.” The temptation of the shadow, of demons is at the heart of humanity’s fallen nature. An excellent video my friend.
An amazing work, as always! Once you start listening to Esper, you can't stop until the video ends. I personally love slimes and fungi as a theme of ever expending evil. So Zuggtmoy is a favorite. Ultimately, I believe that all of them are capable to commit acts similar to each other's. So in my mind, I like to imagine that Zuggtmoy also deals with a greater extend of debauchery. Graz'zt in one of the only figures I actually hate in d&d... :) Something about him rubs be the wrong way. Maybe it's his appearance: he's just too humanoid looking, more like someone's idea of "a super-cool-figther/mage!". I guess he has too be somewhat attractive to be seductive. But for a demon lord, I would imagine seduction and perversion goes beyond looks. So I would rather him to look like something horrid and still possess as much seductive powers.
Many thanks, Eyeball! I like to think that beneath Graz'zt's charming and seductive appearance, his true form is a disgusting, slimy, horrid, monster. Or maybe he has a portrait in a secret vault of his lair that shows his true self, like in the Picture of Dorian Grey.
@@esperthebard Bless you Esper, this sounds like a great idea :) (sorry about the typos above btw) A journey to find an idol in the liking of his true form...
He's such my favorite that I named my old skate metal band Graz'zt I like him as a male figure of beautiful bestial lust. Beauty can be evil according to Dostoevsky. There's already enough hideous and grotesque abominations in the Abyss as it is
@@ShadowedBattlegroundsCre-tk9md Of course, you're right that beauty can be evil. It's just that Graz'zt is too much on the nose for me, with his hairstyle and all. And all the art in which he has this satisfied grin and the "yeah, everyone thinks I'm cool" poses, it drive me mad lol. But overall, I think that the Abyss would seem all the more depraved and ugly, if beauty of any form was shunned from it.
Unfortunately, WotC has not released entries for the majority of the main archdevils (e.g. Asmodeus, Mammon, Glasya, Levistus). I would rather wait until they do, which hopefully will happen at some point.
It’s questionable whether the more animalistic demons can be considered malevolent as, to my knowledge, they’re not that different in behavior and temperament to that of mundane animals. Sure, a hell of a lot more aggressive, but that’s pretty much a given considering they live in the abyss.
Even fierce animals have many moments of peace and rest, of taking care of each other and their young. They follow the natural order of things, balancing ferocity with calmness. By contrast, the bestial demons are always cruel, destructive, and hateful. They have no peace, no affection, no moments that counterbalance the impulse of mayhem and chaos.
You and I have a very different take on what to do with the darkness inside. The dungeon is the darkness on the inside that is bringing you down, and the dragon is the hurdles that life throws at you. The darkness inside isn't a big creature you can bring down in 1 big effort, it's the dungeon that the monster called home that is the darkness. You can beat the monster, but when you do you are still standing in the darkness of the dungeon. Perhaps the dragon was guarding the gate to the exit, but you won't know until after the fight. But that's not the only way out of the dungeon. It's also possible to study the dungeon. Is there airflow? where do the caves go? You might even adapt yourself to use the dungeon in your advantage to get past the dragon. With all of this, I am saying that the darkness inside isn't a one off fight, and that there is not 1 way to overcome it. For example, I have somewhat started to learn how to control spite. I use it mostly for petty things, like doing something others said I wouldn't be able to do. But before I let this negative motivator go rampant, I get a split second to decide whether the result will be beneficial before letting it run rampant. I have had the same with rage once, but I kept it in because it would've needlessly escalated. If you know what kind of evil you are capable, you can mentally train yourself to close or open the door before you lose restraint. And at the end of this, yes I am a warlock main. I like it when characters aren't inherently good, or are good but make a deal with an evil entity because they have a shared goal. (for example I once played a lawful good character that had (naïvely) sworn to kill "those that murdered unarmed humans")
Great comment, actually our takes are pretty similar-much of what you described is how I see things. Though I cannot claim the mantle of warlock ;) just bard, with some moments that are reminiscent of cleric or paladin.
@@esperthebard bard would still pass as my 2nd favourite class. But being a devils advocate I just like to walk that edgy line, without fully plunging into the dark cringe. When I first read warlock, I was affraid it was gonna lock in with a very narrowly defined pact, but the more I read up on dnd the more I saw a narrative tool for a point of conflict.
@@Olav_Hansen For sure, warlock is a class with so many roleplaying hooks built into it. I love writing warlock NPCs and story characters. They always seem to give me a lot to work with.
The allure of the darkness is the unknown. Just like when you venture into the dungeon, it's not the dragon that draws you -- it's the dragon's hoard. Similarly, we're not attracted to the great unspeakable evil. We're curious about what's behind it. Is Orcus really the worst of them all? Or is there something even further down the Abyss that would make even him go "Aw hell no!"
I feel like the Last of Us really outlines how absolutely dangerous Zuggtmoy has the potential to be. If her infection has any ability for her to connect to the infected - the way the mycelium networks did, she would essentially spread like the borg - but like... faster.
Demogorgon is in my opinion, a worse evil than Orcus. Orcus doesn't represent raw power. Demogorgon, does. Orcus just want the realms to be snuffed out in darkness. Forever silent undeath. Whereas Demogorgon wants all realms to spiral into madness forever.
I agree that Orcus is the most evil demon lord, but I disagree that the Nabassu is the most evil demon type. I personally think that the Sibriex is easily more evil. Yes, the Nabassu destroys your soul, but the Sibriex can turn you into a demon by forcefully converting you into an abyssal wretch, thereby forever condemning you to the abyss, even if you were a good-aligned person before that. Oblivion at least ends your suffering, but being forcefully converted to a demon is worse, I would argue.
I think there's a good argument there. I suppose there are two factors that kept me from putting the sibriex farther down the evil spiral: 1. It is a fairly stationary creature and doesn't go seeking out mass victims like most other demons do. Nabassus are masters when it comes to deceving spellcasters into calling them into the Material Plane. 2. Some people successfully treat with sibriexes as lorekeepers and information brokers, which is a far better interaction than 99% of demon interactions go.
and remember kids, if you think necromancy is ever a noble thing, you strengthen orcus and further his goal to reducing the world into the rotten despair of his dreams.
one theory about Graz'zt was that he was really a devil sent by Asmodeus to keep demons fighting amongst each other, but got corrupted....or did he.....
Great video. I want to echo another commenter: Please make the "A better way to have alignment than base 5e" video. Alignments give a lot of creative wiggle room to create every variation on a theme, but it never quite fits together as well as the puzzle should.
And if you gaze past the bottom of the Abyss, you discover the imprisoned light, the sleeping ancestor, the buried treasure. You recover it and become stronger, wiser, and more integrated.
I am currently running a campaign where the main antagonists are a bunch of abyss worshipping yuan-ti. I was wondering which abyssal creature I should place in the center of their "cult", but an alkilith would work damn well. And damn, a dybbuk will make a fine plottwist in a fight. I can already see myself run 2 yuan ti, one being full martial the other bladelock (and more elite looking). My party has a habit of beating down whatever has the lowest armored opponent, but that will be the trap. Once they finish it off, I will have the lock cast summon greater demon using the blood of his fallen companion as a material component. And it will summon a dybbuk, taking control of the body of his recently fallen ally. This just feels like such a good presentation of evil, something that functions by raw, and a moment that will not be soon forgotten by the players.
Coming in this with a warhammer angle as well, the 2nd demon lord is a lot like tzeentch, the 3rd like slaanesh, the 4th like nurgl and the 5th like khorne. Yet I don't personally see how carnage is worse then making the world suffer to its doom. In warhammer these chaos gods have some sort of internal... almost paradox that limits their evildoing, but I don't sense much of that from zuggtmoy and yeenoghu.
@@Olav_Hansen Imo they represent different aspects of evil and max it out but lack others so Baphomets world is evil in its sheer brutality and terror over carnage and loss. Whereas Orcus's world is a bunch of hopeless enslaved souls who can no longer even feel loss and have no vital organs and brains to splatter they don't feel horror anymore. In Baphomets world there's still unbearable terror. In Orcus world just mockery of life. That said I've always thought Orcus fit as a Yugoloth Demon Lord more than a Tinari
Orcus is the most deplorable of the demon lords but he is also most badass of them all, starting as mortal his soul was transferred to the abyss as a larva (the lowest proto demon) then by his own efforts rose to his rank of demon lord. Then he was tricked and defeated by Kiaransalee who ruled Thanathos for a while until he managed to retake his throne once again. He is only (or one of very few, I forget) demon lord to achieve a true godhood (which helped him to escape true death after his defeat) . He is no different than Steve Jobs to be honest.
Tenebrous yeah. I don't think he's the most badass though by far. Elder evils and Obyrinth look way down on him for even being so weak as to have such a come up story. They sired into it he's just another deluded mortal at his core
I have to say, you bring an interesting perspective on the dark side of thing and using it in constructive ways. As for the demon lords, I actually have a plushie of Baphomet. You could say he tempted me with his cuteness!😋
Lol! Nah, the worst he can really do is charm the female players at my table and become the table mascot, which he has and will do so again!😊 Mind you, I'm bringing him because we're doing Avenue right now and felt he would fit in with the theme and provide a distraction from the dark stuff.
Fantastic... Thank you very much, Esper. The (A)D&D demonology and all it's many sources fascinate me since many, many years (decades even). The Abyss and it's layers, too... (Hey, do a video about the more well known layers :D ). Anyway, I always enjoy your videos and this was one was great once aagain. Oh, btw - are there still any plans for a monk subclass ranking? All the best...
Demons can at least be excused by the fact that they follow their nature. As such, mortals that CHOOSE to be vile monsters can be very scary, especially since they definitely exist for real.
I agree with Orcus being the most evil. But I don't agree with your reasoning why. He wouldn't just turn everything into undead servants and leave them be. Because, on principle, what drives Orcus is hatred for everything that is. He would kill his undead servants if he didn't need them anymore. Because he hates them as well. Others might seek dominion and corruption, but Orcus just wants to end it all because he hates the existence of other things. And perhaps even his own existence as well. BTW, it would have been really cool if you mentioned that Demogorgon invented Death Knights. And Orcus invented Ghouls and Liches. Specially since you mentioned Yeenoghu and Baphomet's creations. Either way, great video! Keep it up!
I think Yeenoghu is the most evil. He is another level of nasty and vicious that no other demon lord is. His vision for reality is one of unending savagery where intelligent beings exist only to be hunted as prey. And his wanton cruelty is effluent, everything about him is cruel, everything about him is destructive. He is barbarism personified. It's all murder, torture, slaving, maiming, killing, eating.
Succubus doesn't make your list? I know they aren't in the demon section in 5e, but I think that is the first time they weren't lumped with the rest of them.
When discussing the Screwtape Letters, C. S. Lewis said it was revolting to try to think from the demons' perspective for the sake of writing them as characters; it was not a _fun_ experience. Your speech in that final segment reminded me of that.
Wow, yes I can relate to that. I figure that when it comes to my writing and rpg adventures, if the evil creatures don't convey a vileness that disturbs you, then I'm not doing my job.
C.S. Lewis was a very wise man. It's great that I'm seeing more and more people referencing him lately.
Lmao, I know Christians who think the Screwtape Letters is a documentary. Dude. It's the same as this list. It's made up.
And yet, even Orcus' evil is likely just a drop in the ocean compared to Pale Night. Shame 5e doesn't hardly even mention her.
Really love the last bit in this video, very inspirational. Even if you're the DM and you're playing out all these malevolent acts, you still want to see good rise and defeat it.
I always tell the players, "I'm on your side ... when it's your turn. I'm on the monster's side when it's the monster's turn."
CurrrrRAAAAZY QUESTion here but do u know which demon is most chaotic?
@@wisdomcare5839 Probably Demogorgon, in terms of pure chaos
I'm so grateful to be apart of your community Esper. your videos have inspired me far more than you could ever know thank you.
I remember watching Literature Devil's video on "Is Superman Relevant today," and comparing modern comic book writer's glorification of villains. To make a long video short: today's modern comic book writer's seem to think, heroes arent relatable because they don't struggle. That the villains are more relatable, because, "They were hurt, so they lash out. To make feel what they've had to go through." While characters like Superman are seen as boring, because of the perceived notion that, "they are just there to beat up the bad guy." No. Superman does struggle with temptation, but his devotion to do the right thing, and drive to inspire others to take responsibility, is what makes him relatable. "A world Made of Cardboard," speech from the Justice League cartoon speaks volumes to superman's character. As well as his speech to Manchester Black about why he'll never take a life in the comic book, "What's So Funny About 'Truth Justice, and The American Way' " comes to mind.
So in summary, F**k the demon lords!
Great comment here. I can certainly appreciate writers wanting to explore complex villains, but a Joker movie without Batman? Maleficent without Prince Phillip and the fairy godmothers? It's like a restaurant only serving you the appetizer and the dessert, or playing tennis by yourself without a net.
@@esperthebard Exactly. A hero is only as strong as their villains, and viscera.
@@esperthebard The Joker movie was fantastic though.
The was a fantastic description from Batman about Superman: "In a strange way, Clark is the most human of us all. Then he rains fire from the sky, and it is hard not to think him a god, and how fortunate for us that the same does not occur to him"
@@wstavis3135 that honestly is q very good quote.
While many Demons are naturally spawned by the Abyss, many Tanar'ri Demons (most demons you see in the MM) come from Chaotic Evil souls that descend to the Abyss
Then there are the Obyrith demons (Like Sibriexes and Dagon), who came from another cosmology all together, they got their homeworld destroyed and moved to the Great Wheel to start over by forming the Abyss there.
Obyriths were a real nasty bunch. Back in 4e Pazuzu was pretty much the one responsible for corrupting Asmodeus into betraying his god. Then you have Pale Night whose true form is so antithetical to the very cosmos that a mere glimpse of it erases your existence. The Obyriths were also the ones who made Tharizdun lose his marbles and create the Abyss.
@@daikaijugamer AND one of them - Pale Night - is Graz'zt's mother, and possibly mother to other demon lords and possibly the whole tanar'ri race.
AND, supposedly, the Queen of Chaos (the BBEG of the Rod of Seven Parts epic adventure also an obyrith) created Demogorgon via one of her early experiments, and HE was considered a failed prototype!
@@briancorvello3620 Did you not read my comment...? About Tanar'ri coming from Chaotic Evil souls?
Also Pale Night being Graz'zt mom is presented is something ancient texts proclaimed, not as a fact
I feel like the majority of Lore in d&d is told through text in one form or another. Whether ancient text or some wizard/God/aberration writing a book, lots of lore is deliberately secondhand information, to leave room for interpretation. But the idea of Grazz't being pale night/Asmodeus child is given enough supportive evidence to be believable
@@agentchaos9332 Depends on the writer, I guess. Of course, the claim that Graz'zt is Pale Night's son was made by Graz'zt himself, not the most reliable source there.
Same with his relationship with Iggwilv. Most sources say they're enemies and that simply mentioning the affair between them will cause him to fly into rage; but a Fourth Edition write-up on Graz'zt claims that Iggwilv is his "ally and occasional lover". Yeah, Fourth Edition, I know, but again, demons aren't the most honest of sources.
While I mostly agree with your list, I must admit I’m starting to get the distinct impression you have something against undeath
Well that depends. In what way do you mean?
BUT WHO IS MOST CHAOTIC?!
Well that's because undeath is the most inherently evil state of being that exists. Wizards of the Coast have not been shy in saying that the creation of undead creatures is, in itself, an abhorrently evil act. There is nothing redeemable about it. Therefore, a demon who seeks to lay waste to all life so that he might raise them as his undead servants, and a dragon who seeks to turn himself into a lich to gain power beyond reckoning (to hark back to the dragon video), are definitely the two most evil subcategories of both demons and dragons. If Orcus was just a demon lord who wanted to enslave everyone as his servants, yes he'd still be very evil. But, it's because he does it through undeath - ergo defiling the body and denying it of any peace, that his level of evil transcends that of his peers.
@@wisdomcare5839 the most chaotic Is Ygorl, lord of entropy, from mordenkainen's Fiendish folio. He's a slaadi lord in Limbo. In the abyss, between Demigorgon/ Baphomet, if we only count beings with 5e stats. The literal queen of chaos from older editions trumps them both tho
@@esperthebard
Well, you seemed to rank certain demons as more evil simply for their connection to undeath. Depending on how it is used, undeath is little more than a (temporary) escape from the cruel cycle of life and death, unforced upon mortals by the damnable gods
Only a true Bard could defeat his Demons with eloquence and the creation of art. Toss a coin to your Esper
Somehow I find the two headed demon lord interesting. Two heads that hate each other so much that they want to destroy everything because they can't kill each other. I can imagine that one side of their faces might have bite marks from the moments when one head tilts just a little too close towards the other.
Lmfao, I haven't watched the video yet but I know *exactly* who you're referring to
Revelation is scary man, I search for narrative excerpts to read to my players as the thoughts or words of NPC's just like I search and save maps....well that revelation verse is goin in the bank!
I've so been looking forward to this! Thank you for another great video! I agree with you in your analysis (the annihilation of the soul is the ultimate evil), and how evil itself is an oddly intriguing topic. Perhaps because it is at once relatable and alien, understandable and inexplicable? We want to pin it down and expose it to the light, yet recoil in horror when we do. There's something fascinating about gazing into the well of evil, so long as we neither drink from it nor fall in to its depths.
Thank you, Jones the Owl! It's crazy how we rarely stop to think about what we're doing. But if you take a step back and observe, you can catch yourself allured to the shadow. Like you said, we take a peek, and what we find lurking in the underbelly might be repulsive or might be buried treasure. Indeed, the key is to make sure you don't drown in the darkness, but rather harness it for the good.
Elloh mate i b a humble peasant requesting the knowledge of the most chaotic demon so I may learn from their mistakes m’lord
Easily demogorgon two personalities causes madness to those who get close enough or see him. One personality just a monster that wants to kill, and the other the calculating, and smart killer that is on par with Stalin
Grazt just wants to conquer the upper planes by uniting the lower planes and he enjoys perverse pleasure
Fraz just loves his schemes and his superiority
But second most evil is the godhood seeker killer of primus orcus dies alot but is the scariest necromancer ever, and just wants everyone to die including his servants he just wants them to kill everything, and he wants to die but he can't he just keeps coming back
Edit I just rate orcus lower because I think he would rather kill all things then make you a undead slave
more like hitler
You’re correct about the most dangerous, but when it comes to evil Orcus puts everyone to shame. He hates everything, he even hates the undead but they make the best slaves, and unlife is a mockery of everything the multiverse represents, it’s breaking the law of the multiverse and not allowing a soul to move on to their given afterlife. Creating undead is one of the most evil acts you can do in D&D, regardless of all the memes about the good-hearted necromancer, there is no such thing.
You forgot Fraz wants to murder all humans. And I mean every single human. Along with eating their souls. Fraz and Grazz'zt are the most dangerous. As they have the long term plans. That are filled with extreme genocide and soul eating.
I think while Orcus's ambitions are terrible they're also pretty idealistic. Pazuzu on the other hand lives to turn that which is good into evil, he doesn't even bother with evil people and afflicts only those with good hearts.
Every time you make one of these videos, I always think to myself that 4e's art was so much more unique than what we have in 5e.
Thank you for the brighter side at the end.. And thank you for being there for us. To me I first got on with the DnD content of your channel which reminded me of simpler times 30 years ago when I was playing. But then amongst the monstrosities and other abominations I found one of the most human dude on the web. The honesty I feel here is so rarely otherwise encountered on the net that I re-watch some vids just for soothing and comfort when things get dark irl. So, by all means, thank You.
That means a lot, Karl! Life can be crazy, confusing, and very dark at times. You have my best wishes and my encouragement to keep going, to keep seeking the star shining in the darkest night.
Esper I love your D&D content. Very creative guy with a good mind for the lore and your own brand of storytelling. Keep it up. And thank you for another great video.
Thank you so much Paul! What I really miss are doing are narrated adventure videos and short stories. Those need to come back.
You are so close to that 100k!! Hopefully you will get there within the next weeks!
Right! I am stoked!
love the content Esper,
Also want to let you know i appreciate the effort and time you give
Many thanks, Ryan the Dude!
@@esperthebard do u happen to know which demon is most chaotic
@@wisdomcare5839 That's easy, the answer is you when the DM flakes out on the session lol
Dude! Nice afterthoughts and closing statements! I agree 100%! The darkness within yourself must be confronted and conquered and then help others to do the same with the wisdom you've gained. This is why I love D&D so much! I love reading between the lines and allegory. D&D is not a celebration of evil or vile things. It's a safe place to explore those dark inner curiosities and destroy them with the light of creativity...with friends! Oh, man, I could go on and on. But seriously. Thanks for all the hard work you do. You've inspired me to keep going on my own campaign creation. Peace and blessings, Esper. Ha! The bard thing is working for us both here.
Thank you so much! I also could go on and on about this topic. There is something so compelling and engaging about that razor's edge where good and evil are grappling in mortal battle. Do you ever find that you can direct your anger or frustration constructively to make yourself focus on a productive task and accomplish some work?
It’s good to see that your almost at 100,000 subscribers
Thanks! Getting so close!
Killer ending. And No, that does not excuse any skipping to the end.
Thanks man, I'm very glad you liked that part. As you had your own nightmare-haunting by Lolth, you know how disturbing it can get if you spend enough time gazing into the Abyss. But fortunately, I've learned that if you gaze far enough, past the darkest bottom of it all, there is a positive force, like an imprisoned ancestral spirit that you can tap into. After death comes new birth, after the darkest hour comes the new dawn. That's also why I designed the "Abyss" result of Wheel of Fate as I did.
You forgot about the Glabrezu
I always loved how you had to roll to see if your character would be paralyzed with fear when encountering some of these demons, and creatures. My DM had some fun once and our whole group was slaughtered by a high powered demon because none of us had enough constitution to raise a weapon, or cast a spell.
I really appreciate what you had to say at the end of the video. I recently got into D&D and it's already so much more than a game to me. And many of the things we experience and learn in the game can be constructively applied to real life.
Thank you for taking the time to make this video. It meant a lot to me!
Love how you say the names of the demon lords with such disgust. Very nice touch.
I like your little commentary at the end very good speech. You made some very good heartfelt points. No matter how dark things get in the abyss just look up to the light. Can always find help there.
Esper, I adore your presentation and videos. Please make the “A better way to have alignment than base 5e” video please
Couldn't agree more!! 5e lacks greatly in expressing the idea of alignment besides "he is nice/he isn't"
Here is the best way to do aligment in d&d: Don't.
Seriously, I don't get nerds. You all spent DECADES whining how bad aligment is and arguing about it and complaining how it ruins your games. So they downplayed it...and you all are complaining that it was downplayed. It's like you WANT to be angry.
I started dnd in 85. None of us liked alignment then. Just never felt like it fit. Lawful good was often seen as lawful stupid. Chaotic neutral was just an excuse to be an idiot. Through the years I’ve let it go. I’ve played a dozen other games without it and didn’t miss it. Now that I’m back to dnd I use alignment as cosmic forces only. People can be good and evil, but beyond that it just feels forced.
YMMV
Alignment is a game mechanic and nothing more
@@davewilson13 The fact that you distilled down alignment to stupidity and idiocy tells everyone that it isn't alignment that you have a problem with, but the people you play with.
Bro! This is one of your best! The descriptions, pacing, everything. Appreciate you forreal.
I'm glad you thought so. It was a very impactful experience making this one, as I mentioned toward the end.
@@esperthebard 😉 do you have a tiktok or livestream?
@@johnsnow9210 I don't do tiktok, though I do livestream here on youtube. Actually there will be one later today at 7:30 pm Central time.
I thought I remembered hearing that Fraz-Urb’luu started his Fiendish career as a Devil, not a Demon.
you forgot the demon lord Karen,queen of the harpies
Neutral Evil is the most evil alignment.
Lawful Evil you just follow the society that you are born into.
Chaotic Evil you are instinctive and do not fully understand your actions.
Neutral Evil you have to willingly with sound mind and without outside coercion do Evil.
I always found lawful evil to be of a sound mind but they keep their word instead of double crossing you like Chaotic evil would
LE doesn't require a pre-existent society, it requires a desire for control over everything and the consequences of exerting absolute authority
I mean, depends on your reading of alignment. I like 2e's since that is what I started with and probably the last time they gave any real thought to alignment. It gives a scenario where a blackguard (using the classic definition) has kidnaped a peasant and will therefore be a very tough fight and what every member of the party would do. This also includes a bit about sharing treasure and paying to raise their fallen.
The NE person just wants the loot, they will get involved in the fight if they are threatened and will gladly loot instead of fighting, but won't put themselves at risk. The alignment description also includes a bit that they won't feel bad about betraying their friends if it is in line with personal gain. Archetypes are common thieves, unscrupulous mercs, and double crossing infromers.
CE on the other hand, will stay at the back of dangerous combats to 'guard the rear' and planning to stab their friends in the back if it looks they will lose. After the fight, he notices the rest of the group is weak and demands all of the loot or he will kill them. They believe 'might makes right' and will only band together with anyone when forced to by a much greater threat in either support or opposition. Archetypes are bloodthirsty buccaneers and low INT monsters.
CN is actually the alignment for people who do not understand their actions who does whatever feels right at the moment. Considered the most difficult alignment to play and archetypes are lunatics and madmen.
I double checked all of them, and I think the one with the absolutely greatest capacity for large scale evil is probably LG. The utilitarians.
That is incorrect because things vary so much. It's better to think of good/evil as a spectrum, and law/chaos as a spectrum. A character could be in a neutral position on the law/chaos axis and just a little into the evil side of the good/evil axis. Think of creatures like mephits, zombies, and giant vultures. They are NE, but they are far from being the most evil.
I think inteligent n.e. Can be the most evil. Chaos is chaos even chaotic evil could do some thing good if it suited their whimes, lawful evil could do the same but from the inadvertent out come neutral evil thou now that is more "chaotic" his means only even justify his means he is not swayed by trappings of moral or wild drives , that wasn't his goal , he gained nothing from it , may have not even known he would cause it , even if he did its a bonus the riches was the goal
26:10
"I feel a draw to dark things, strange things"
*Esper's therapist worriedly writing notes in the corner*
Really enjoy these type of videos! I am fascinated by fantasy evil, honestly. Keep it up, Esper. Your content is great.
Much appreciated! What kind of creature would you like to see an evil analysis for? Undead perhaps? Or maybe a look at which dragon is the most good-aligned?
Love the conclusion... And you are right , we all enjoy to travel through dreams and nightmares seeking for wisedom or just the wonders of adventures in the Unknown... you are the true heir of the Shamans of old times dozens of thousand years ago when men, women and children gathered up around the bonfire under the stars at the entry of the cave where the dancing shadows made the paintings more alive with the legends teached by the Shaman....
Thank you so much to remind us this time when myths were not only poetic but mostly our way of life !
Many thanks, O Temporal Wayfarer of the Crimson Cloak! I suppose mythic storytelling is in my blood! Just a little teaser: I cannot wait until I get back to doing narrated adventures ;)
The "most evil demon" isn't one that looks or acts like a giant monsterous brute with tentacles, multiple heads or a nightmare visage. Granted, all those are horrible, Lovecraftian like monsters that stalk & butcher like no one's business, but the truly insidious demons are the ones that can put their own carnal natures aside & plan for the long game. Examples of such are Malcanthet & Grazzt. They can be polite, act civil, be a wonderful host as they lie & deceive you. Get you to succumb to your worst instincts and make deals. If you can somehow resist or foil their long term plans, only then will you face their physical wraith or at least that of their minions as you are assaulted & torn limb from limb. This could take days, weeks or even months and no mortal is immune. They take great delight in corrupting such souls, the more innocent the better.
In my view, these are the worst of the worst of demonkind, as a quick & bloody death is at least a release as opposed to willingly joining their ranks.
I’d say that on a Cosmic scale those might be the most scary to actually deal with and be the most dangerous to specifically good people, but while they are a mockery of virtue, the demons that make mockery of all life itself regardless of alignment, like Orcus are the most cosmically evil and dangerous to everything, not just good-aligned creatures.
If the Abyssal lore is your favorite you’re a real one I always felt like.
I agree with your last part but for me it’s no mystery why Abyssal lore is so dope
The strange, dark and mysterious is very alluring indeed
Charon. The Boatman of the lower planes. He can never, ever be completely killed.
If we're talking " pureblood" Tanari abyssal demons, I'd probably give it to Orcus. But as soon as you open it up to other fiends, Most of the obyriths/ yugoloths represent a much deeper level of evilness. Ob-ox obb and the queen of chaos both want to corrupt the entirety of the multiverse until its a single dying mass of diseased flesh beneath their control, destroy all life and then probably move on to a new multiverse after they wring ours dry. Pazuzu actively enjoys screwing pure, noble and innocent souls over and causing them to fall, this is more insidious then orcus, jubilex Zuggutmoy or demigorgons goals( all life to undeath for the sake of quiet& order, ooze everywhere, fungus everywhere, and the death of the other head) meanwhile, the Yugoloths were ritually purged of all law & order in a grand ritual by the general of genhenna, literally purifying them as the most evil fiends. The actual most Evil beings in D&D aren't demons, but the Baernaloths, the progenitors of the yugoloths, with first place probably going to the General himself. Or possibly Pale night. Pale Night could be the cruelest of all but she's too alien to understand her thought process
The Baernaloths are horrendously evil in a way basically nothing else is. There's not even a selfish edge to it, they just destroy on instinct. They are essentially rogue malignant bodies that attack the multiversal system. Most evil alignment is based around doing literally whatever it takes to get what you want. Liches kill thousands of people and destroy their souls, but they're seeking immortality. Hags corrupt and ruin because it's what makes them happy. Devils get souls to damn themselves because they're on a mission and willing to take someone's eternity for it. Orcs kill and pillage because it is their cultural imperative, warfare is how they gain status, wealth, and provide resources for the tribe. Dragons raid and hoard because a hoard is needed for them to grow and to have a place in their society. Rakshasas are manipulative and feast on the flesh of intelligent races, but they're after pleasure, freedom, and renown. Nightwalkers want to kill, but it's because it's in their nature to kill. But a baernaloth doesn't want anything. They don't seek riches, they don't seek power, they don't seek fame, they don't even seek torment. They just harm and destroy for no other reason than because they can. And it's almost truly impossible to get rid of a baenaloth. They are like a malignancy that fundamentally wants to exist just to be harmful. They are the root of evil and does evil for no sake other than they exist.
A great way to hammer home the evil and power of Nabasu is to have them kill spiritual undead, which though usually evil, I find nothing more horrifying than a spirit being eaten right in front of you, especially a friendly ghost, for instance
The most evil demons sit across me at the table each night destroying everything i worked so hard for!
this is better than i thought it would be judging from the title.
What were you expecting? Genuine question, not sarcasm. I actually was not super happy with the title and wondered if it should be something like "Searching for the Most Evil Demon and Demon Lord in D&D", but that was a little too long.
@@esperthebard maybe "how evil are demons"? i can't think of a better title but there was more in the video than the title suggests.
Some runners up are Pale Night, Malcanthet, pazuzu, and Dagon.
I dig what you do.
If we count pazuzu he wins, because he goes out of his way to corrupt the pure and numbe souls, to turn them to evil. 99% of demons just want to kill your ass. Pazuzu wants you too damn yourself by your own hand, and then spend eternity agonizing over what you've become as you serve him. Pale night, admittedly may be the ultimate evil but since she's portrayed as super alien we can't understand her thought process or goals to judge that. Dagon I would actually say is one of the least evil demon lords/ oberyths just because by their standards he's...actually pretty chill. The only Oberyth to bow down to/ ally with demigorgon, doesn't have any lore really about aggressively invading material worlds or taking a big part in the blood war. Yeah he has cultists and those cultists are usually crazy but that's all demon lords. Dagon is just vibing being D&D cthulu until you do something to get his attention.
Malcanthet's barely evil, she just wants everyone to have a good time. Monogamists just need to get the fuck over themselves.
Ngl some of this felt like reading a book report and the end was just corny but I have to appreciate you teaching about demon lords because I was having a hard time finding info on them and this taught me a lot about them
Awesome video. Figuratively and literally
I love your perspective at the end, very enlightening. Thanks for the video!
graz'zt = slaanesh zuggtmoy = nurgle baphomet = khorne fraz-urb'luu = tzeentch demogorgon = khoren/tzeentch (due to the nature of the heads)
Oh my goodness yes! My friends and I have this discussion EVERY DAY, and this is the EXACT CONCLUSION WE CAME TO!
@@boredlonely-pm1vj you welcome
Wow man. You're starting to sound a lot like R.A. Salvatore! Love everything that you're doing never stop!
Hey Esper, great video man! I`m curious to known why you thing that 5e tone down on alignment was a mistake. For me this sub-system is a relic of the past that player characters should not choose or put on the character sheet, so for me it was great.
And as a recommendation I would suggest 'The Book of Fiend' written by Robert Schwalb and published by Green Ronin, it goes in depth in all of fiend related stuff for 5E!
Thank you! The alignment system has its flaws. Sometimes, things can get so nuanced, blurry, or complicated, that it's difficult to put one single alignment on someone. But reducing it or removing it creates even worse problems, it disorients the game and removes identity from the various races/creatures. If anything can be anything, then everything is nothing. Alignment gives us powerful archetypes and a sort of traction or launchpad from which we can move forward. Just look at the amount of debates and discussions that alignment creates, there is something potent at play. Stripping that away and replacing it with nothing is a poor move.
I have removed alignment in my home campaign and how I handle it is demons and all being from outer planes have innate nature, for example demons are beings of entropy and personal freedom with no care for others but they are not chaotic evil
I'm surprised you didn't mention Molydeus
I'd be really interested in seeing a video from you on Liches, taking a super deep-dive into their lore, etc, as well as looking at the things you can/could do with them as a campaign villain, as well as becoming one as a player
What would intrigue you the most, a video about just liches or one of these evil analysis videos about undead?
@@esperthebard Haha well if I was to give a selfish answer, I'd say a lich video! But, keeping in theme with your two recent videos, I think an analysis of the different levels of evil across undeath would be most fitting. Maybe once that's done you could do more in-depth deep dives on prominent themes across all the different evil brackets, i.e. a deep dive on liches for undeath, and so on
@@Foretelling That gives me a lot of good options for possible videos to consider. One thing I keep in mind is that there are lots of lore channels out there, some of which are quite good, so I try to keep things fairly unique. I'm strongly considering doing a video seeking out the good-aligned dragon.
“For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods.” The temptation of the shadow, of demons is at the heart of humanity’s fallen nature. An excellent video my friend.
that ending, hell yeah
An amazing work, as always!
Once you start listening to Esper, you can't stop until the video ends.
I personally love slimes and fungi as a theme of ever expending evil. So Zuggtmoy is a favorite. Ultimately, I believe that all of them are capable to commit acts similar to each other's. So in my mind, I like to imagine that Zuggtmoy also deals with a greater extend of debauchery.
Graz'zt in one of the only figures I actually hate in d&d... :) Something about him rubs be the wrong way. Maybe it's his appearance: he's just too humanoid looking, more like someone's idea of "a super-cool-figther/mage!". I guess he has too be somewhat attractive to be seductive. But for a demon lord, I would imagine seduction and perversion goes beyond looks. So I would rather him to look like something horrid and still possess as much seductive powers.
Many thanks, Eyeball! I like to think that beneath Graz'zt's charming and seductive appearance, his true form is a disgusting, slimy, horrid, monster. Or maybe he has a portrait in a secret vault of his lair that shows his true self, like in the Picture of Dorian Grey.
@@esperthebard Bless you Esper, this sounds like a great idea :)
(sorry about the typos above btw)
A journey to find an idol in the liking of his true form...
He's such my favorite that I named my old skate metal band Graz'zt
I like him as a male figure of beautiful bestial lust. Beauty can be evil according to Dostoevsky. There's already enough hideous and grotesque abominations in the Abyss as it is
@@ShadowedBattlegroundsCre-tk9md Of course, you're right that beauty can be evil. It's just that Graz'zt is too much on the nose for me, with his hairstyle and all. And all the art in which he has this satisfied grin and the "yeah, everyone thinks I'm cool" poses, it drive me mad lol.
But overall, I think that the Abyss would seem all the more depraved and ugly, if beauty of any form was shunned from it.
loved your comments at the end!
My thanks, Daniel! That was definitely a more personal moment for me, though one that I thought others could relate to as well.
Are you gonna talk about the archdevils and power ranking?
Unfortunately, WotC has not released entries for the majority of the main archdevils (e.g. Asmodeus, Mammon, Glasya, Levistus). I would rather wait until they do, which hopefully will happen at some point.
Called it on the nabassu ayyy
It’s questionable whether the more animalistic demons can be considered malevolent as, to my knowledge, they’re not that different in behavior and temperament to that of mundane animals. Sure, a hell of a lot more aggressive, but that’s pretty much a given considering they live in the abyss.
Even fierce animals have many moments of peace and rest, of taking care of each other and their young. They follow the natural order of things, balancing ferocity with calmness. By contrast, the bestial demons are always cruel, destructive, and hateful. They have no peace, no affection, no moments that counterbalance the impulse of mayhem and chaos.
You and I have a very different take on what to do with the darkness inside. The dungeon is the darkness on the inside that is bringing you down, and the dragon is the hurdles that life throws at you.
The darkness inside isn't a big creature you can bring down in 1 big effort, it's the dungeon that the monster called home that is the darkness. You can beat the monster, but when you do you are still standing in the darkness of the dungeon. Perhaps the dragon was guarding the gate to the exit, but you won't know until after the fight. But that's not the only way out of the dungeon. It's also possible to study the dungeon. Is there airflow? where do the caves go? You might even adapt yourself to use the dungeon in your advantage to get past the dragon.
With all of this, I am saying that the darkness inside isn't a one off fight, and that there is not 1 way to overcome it. For example, I have somewhat started to learn how to control spite. I use it mostly for petty things, like doing something others said I wouldn't be able to do. But before I let this negative motivator go rampant, I get a split second to decide whether the result will be beneficial before letting it run rampant. I have had the same with rage once, but I kept it in because it would've needlessly escalated. If you know what kind of evil you are capable, you can mentally train yourself to close or open the door before you lose restraint.
And at the end of this, yes I am a warlock main. I like it when characters aren't inherently good, or are good but make a deal with an evil entity because they have a shared goal. (for example I once played a lawful good character that had (naïvely) sworn to kill "those that murdered unarmed humans")
Great comment, actually our takes are pretty similar-much of what you described is how I see things. Though I cannot claim the mantle of warlock ;) just bard, with some moments that are reminiscent of cleric or paladin.
@@esperthebard bard would still pass as my 2nd favourite class. But being a devils advocate I just like to walk that edgy line, without fully plunging into the dark cringe. When I first read warlock, I was affraid it was gonna lock in with a very narrowly defined pact, but the more I read up on dnd the more I saw a narrative tool for a point of conflict.
@@Olav_Hansen For sure, warlock is a class with so many roleplaying hooks built into it. I love writing warlock NPCs and story characters. They always seem to give me a lot to work with.
the R word is a regular for those in chaotic-evil btw
Which word is the R word?
What about the molydeus? Like the sibriex, it can turn you into a demon (a manes).
The allure of the darkness is the unknown. Just like when you venture into the dungeon, it's not the dragon that draws you -- it's the dragon's hoard.
Similarly, we're not attracted to the great unspeakable evil. We're curious about what's behind it.
Is Orcus really the worst of them all? Or is there something even further down the Abyss that would make even him go "Aw hell no!"
No love for the malydeus?
personal headcanon about Fraz-Urb'luu is that he's just a unique demon who is lying to everyone and no one have grown wise to it
Great stuff
I put a video up about the magnetic initiative tracker on the video about faster combat
Checking it out!
Orcus! The dreaded enemy of my Dark Lady the Raven Queen!
May the Queen of the Shadowfell strike him down once and for all!
love your vids man
I feel like the Last of Us really outlines how absolutely dangerous Zuggtmoy has the potential to be. If her infection has any ability for her to connect to the infected - the way the mycelium networks did, she would essentially spread like the borg - but like... faster.
Demogorgon is in my opinion, a worse evil than Orcus. Orcus doesn't represent raw power. Demogorgon, does. Orcus just want the realms to be snuffed out in darkness. Forever silent undeath. Whereas Demogorgon wants all realms to spiral into madness forever.
I agree that Orcus is the most evil demon lord, but I disagree that the Nabassu is the most evil demon type. I personally think that the Sibriex is easily more evil. Yes, the Nabassu destroys your soul, but the Sibriex can turn you into a demon by forcefully converting you into an abyssal wretch, thereby forever condemning you to the abyss, even if you were a good-aligned person before that. Oblivion at least ends your suffering, but being forcefully converted to a demon is worse, I would argue.
I think there's a good argument there. I suppose there are two factors that kept me from putting the sibriex farther down the evil spiral:
1. It is a fairly stationary creature and doesn't go seeking out mass victims like most other demons do. Nabassus are masters when it comes to deceving spellcasters into calling them into the Material Plane.
2. Some people successfully treat with sibriexes as lorekeepers and information brokers, which is a far better interaction than 99% of demon interactions go.
The Molydeus can also turn you into a demon. It can turn you into a manes.
Hi esper ! I just realized you can planar bind an alkilith into a pant zipper!
You may be able to fight fire with fire, but darkness can never defeat darkness. For that, you need light.
and remember kids, if you think necromancy is ever a noble thing, you strengthen orcus and further his goal to reducing the world into the rotten despair of his dreams.
Wow, that speech in the end... Holy shit ❤
one theory about Graz'zt was that he was really a devil sent by Asmodeus to keep demons fighting amongst each other, but got corrupted....or did he.....
Some strange people in this comment section with very odd nitpicks. Great video man, love the content and keepm coming!
Great video. I want to echo another commenter: Please make the "A better way to have alignment than base 5e" video. Alignments give a lot of creative wiggle room to create every variation on a theme, but it never quite fits together as well as the puzzle should.
If you gaze too long into the abyss the abyss gazes back
And if you gaze past the bottom of the Abyss, you discover the imprisoned light, the sleeping ancestor, the buried treasure. You recover it and become stronger, wiser, and more integrated.
Ironically, Thanatos is the god of death in Greek mythology.
I am currently running a campaign where the main antagonists are a bunch of abyss worshipping yuan-ti. I was wondering which abyssal creature I should place in the center of their "cult", but an alkilith would work damn well.
And damn, a dybbuk will make a fine plottwist in a fight. I can already see myself run 2 yuan ti, one being full martial the other bladelock (and more elite looking). My party has a habit of beating down whatever has the lowest armored opponent, but that will be the trap. Once they finish it off, I will have the lock cast summon greater demon using the blood of his fallen companion as a material component. And it will summon a dybbuk, taking control of the body of his recently fallen ally.
This just feels like such a good presentation of evil, something that functions by raw, and a moment that will not be soon forgotten by the players.
Coming in this with a warhammer angle as well, the 2nd demon lord is a lot like tzeentch, the 3rd like slaanesh, the 4th like nurgl and the 5th like khorne. Yet I don't personally see how carnage is worse then making the world suffer to its doom. In warhammer these chaos gods have some sort of internal... almost paradox that limits their evildoing, but I don't sense much of that from zuggtmoy and yeenoghu.
@@Olav_Hansen Imo they represent different aspects of evil and max it out but lack others so Baphomets world is evil in its sheer brutality and terror over carnage and loss. Whereas Orcus's world is a bunch of hopeless enslaved souls who can no longer even feel loss and have no vital organs and brains to splatter they don't feel horror anymore. In Baphomets world there's still unbearable terror. In Orcus world just mockery of life.
That said I've always thought Orcus fit as a Yugoloth Demon Lord more than a Tinari
I was surprised to notice that Grazz't isn't here. Although I guess he's not *that* bad as far as the other demon lords go.
17:46
18:49
So, this specimen is basically a demonic form of cordiceps then)
Amen to that ending
Amen indeed!
Orcus is the most deplorable of the demon lords but he is also most badass of them all, starting as mortal his soul was transferred to the abyss as a larva (the lowest proto demon) then by his own efforts rose to his rank of demon lord. Then he was tricked and defeated by Kiaransalee who ruled Thanathos for a while until he managed to retake his throne once again. He is only (or one of very few, I forget) demon lord to achieve a true godhood (which helped him to escape true death after his defeat) . He is no different than Steve Jobs to be honest.
Tenebrous yeah. I don't think he's the most badass though by far. Elder evils and Obyrinth look way down on him for even being so weak as to have such a come up story. They sired into it he's just another deluded mortal at his core
Now what we need are Elder Evils and Obyriths! 😅
Oh yea. Love me some Demons!
Hail Maximus, Lorekeeper!
You too, man. Good on you :)
Sibriax reminds me of the old one chained up in bloodborne.
1:30
"You wanna know a word that rhymes with _ape?"_
The scariest demon lord’s name is Ex Boss.
I have to say, you bring an interesting perspective on the dark side of thing and using it in constructive ways. As for the demon lords, I actually have a plushie of Baphomet. You could say he tempted me with his cuteness!😋
Watch out, you might wake up one day to find other stuffed animals gored open, with their fluffy entrails spilled all over the place.
Lol! Nah, the worst he can really do is charm the female players at my table and become the table mascot, which he has and will do so again!😊 Mind you, I'm bringing him because we're doing Avenue right now and felt he would fit in with the theme and provide a distraction from the dark stuff.
Fantastic... Thank you very much, Esper. The (A)D&D demonology and all it's many sources fascinate me since many, many years (decades even). The Abyss and it's layers, too... (Hey, do a video about the more well known layers :D ). Anyway, I always enjoy your videos and this was one was great once aagain. Oh, btw - are there still any plans for a monk subclass ranking? All the best...
Demons can at least be excused by the fact that they follow their nature. As such, mortals that CHOOSE to be vile monsters can be very scary, especially since they definitely exist for real.
Watching this and hitting dabs instead of the superbowl.
Your worst demon is what most people belive happen when you die. Non existence. Once again life is scarier than fiction can ever be. 😪
If Demogorgon wants the cessation of all existence, why isn't he a Horseman of Abaddon?
I agree with Orcus being the most evil. But I don't agree with your reasoning why. He wouldn't just turn everything into undead servants and leave them be. Because, on principle, what drives Orcus is hatred for everything that is. He would kill his undead servants if he didn't need them anymore. Because he hates them as well. Others might seek dominion and corruption, but Orcus just wants to end it all because he hates the existence of other things. And perhaps even his own existence as well.
BTW, it would have been really cool if you mentioned that Demogorgon invented Death Knights. And Orcus invented Ghouls and Liches. Specially since you mentioned Yeenoghu and Baphomet's creations.
Either way, great video! Keep it up!
I think Yeenoghu is the most evil. He is another level of nasty and vicious that no other demon lord is. His vision for reality is one of unending savagery where intelligent beings exist only to be hunted as prey. And his wanton cruelty is effluent, everything about him is cruel, everything about him is destructive. He is barbarism personified. It's all murder, torture, slaving, maiming, killing, eating.
That was outstanding. Thank, you. Please do obyriths and Tharizdun.
Succubus doesn't make your list? I know they aren't in the demon section in 5e, but I think that is the first time they weren't lumped with the rest of them.
That's because they are fiends in general, not demons or devil specifically in 5th edition...
@@Blizz3112 I know they are, but they should be demons.
In 4e the succubus was classified as a Devil IIRC
@@حَسن-م3ه9ظ Weird, but as far as I know, 4e was just an April Fools joke and nothing you say will change my mind.
@@cp1cupcake Erynyes are basically the Devil or LE version I guess.
B.A.R.D. = Bringer of Awesomely Radical Divinations =P