The craziest part to me, besides the points, is that he will also finish top 5 all time in assists and top 10 all time in steals as well. This man is from another planet.
He's also currently Top 10 in three-pointers and has a decent chance to get into the Top 5 (he's 249 behind Korver at the time I'm writing this). Guys like Klay, Paul George, and KD will eventually pass him if they can stay healthy (and then maybe way down the line, Trae Young)... but it's not unrealistic to think he'll sit in the Top 10 of this category for a long time as well.
Sure you can... and 18 year old millionaire calling himself the king? Calling himself the greatest 13 years into his career? The media has sold this guy from jump street... he's ok! He is great but nothing spectacular except what the media tells you he is! Like right now... every dunk has to be ON MY GOD, LABRON AT 37.. SHOWING UP THE LEAGUE? THERE'S MANY MANY PLAYERS PLAY AS LONG, PLAY AS HARD, AND DO MORE! It's jus packaged for Labron atm! Kareem played 20 years, his points lack 3's... Labron catching him isn't all that impressive! When Curry, Klay, and others reach their retirement? The point totals will be crazy... Labron is an average athlete with all the media behind him! Yes been force fed to you... 🤣 hes great but nothing special!
@@chuckd1586 tell mw a player who can play like him,and as effective and intelligent as him..and as CONSISTENT as him?..is there a player who average 28-30pts ppg from day one until 20th season?you dont know how to play basketball it looks like easy but it's not...
@@chuckd1586 probably the worst take ive ever seen LOL who at the age of 38 is putting up 29 PPG? name me one player that "PLAY AS LONG AS HARD/DOES MORE"? I'm not the biggest fan of lebron after his "im the greatest" take but you cannot deny his longevity, and sheer impact on the court. Still a top 5 player in year 20...
Chuck makes a good point. At 18 years old LeBron was as good as advertised when he came into the league. I've never seen another player in any sport come in with such high expectations. And to do what he has done so far in his career is incredible.
Pele at 17 (before my time). Maradona, Ronaldo (Brazilian) and Messi. All were as good as advertised as teenagers who went on to Mount Rushmore status in their sport.
@@pitrson666 Because the original comment of this thread made a point that he or she had "never seen another player in ANY SPORT come in with such high expectations." I gave examples from another sport.
@@bolder2009 either way even in middle school he was getting hated on and in high school was called the chosen one he was just supposed to come into the league and be great
only MJ fans always want argue / debates we just need appreciates this two as a great Legend in this League! LBJ 40Kpts, 10Krebs, 10Kassts.. and many times they took his Teams into Finals - NOT BAD at all but MJ Fans - always said Dont count it.. dont count it.. just MJ 6x Rings
They had a meaningful and engaging discussion debating such a hot topic - WITHOUT putting anybody down. That's how you do it. Best show in the business hands down
Ye their all respectfull shen it comes to eachother and the players they are debating, Skip and Shannon for example is just one meatrider and one hater.
@@simenfalkenas6601 you must be 12, Chuck has gotten into it for disrespecting Iverson, Bron, Dray you name it....... if Shay is a meatrider what do you call the guy who said the Warriors would never win a ring?
LeBron has earned every accolade, I'm glad Kareem is still with us and hopefully he will be there to pay tribute. Kareem is a great man on and off the court, he is a worldwide treasure.
Kareem is a great man. Unfortunately, the one black spot for him is his treatment of LeBron James I doubt that Kareem will be there to pay tribute. Maybe he treats LeBron like that, because he knew that this day was coming.
KAREM WENT TO COLLEGE LEBRON DIDNT IF HE HAD HED BE NO WHERE NEAR KAREEM le China James is just a dumb circus animal. He's. The greatest player who needed great players around him to be called great everything has been given to him. Given not earned
Not really Kareem’s record isn’t really in jeopardy because back then you couldn’t go straight to the nba. You had to go to college 4 years if Kareem came in at 18 his record would never be broken so you have to go by how many games they played
He's the only person on the show who actually says insightful things. Chuck and Shaq just say what everyone is saying in the barbershop, except they're in the HoF, so it sounds much deeper.
Not true..... Kenny hit the nail on the head.... Steph doesn't affect the game overall like Lebron/MJ/Kareem/etc. His team won 3 rings during his prime when he was winning regular season MVPS.... & he wasn't Finals MVP for any of them.... even placed THIRD in the '15 Finals.
I've been watching the NBA since the late 80's. I told a friend of mine, way back, that nobody is passing that Kareem record because of the number of productive years a player has to play. I'm glad to have been proven wrong.
@@dusk6159 yeah I mean I don't want to say you don't know what you're talking about because you might be a great basketball fan but you're just wrong it's kind of opinion it's just wrong
@@diffuser2459 ppl forget how hard it is to last this long in the league. Then having to be ELITE for this long too is another aspect. Yes he did get a head start but he had to put in the work too.
LeBron's average per game is still higher than Kareem's by 2.53 points and even though Kareen started at age 22 he still has over 2 full season worth of games played over LeBron right now. 192 in fact. So while Kareem was older when he first started LeBron is going to break the record in fewer games. This is just a longevity stat and nothing more. An even more unbreakable record than this is LeBron's consecutive games with 10 or more points. Nobody is ever touching that.
LeBron has a higher usage rate as well. The ball is in his hands more often so he has more autonomy with the plays on offence. Something to consider as well. Context matters in these comparisons.
Yeah, 38 after 20 years of wear and tear is really where it's at though. I could definitely see him maintaining as he aged even into his 40s and older if he didn't have the miles on his body, which is something I have seen in UFC before when a 45 year was the top fighter in the company and still improving, but he also started at 34 so he didn't have the miles, but to do it a professional sport after over 20 years straight, while having to play literally EVERY DAY against in the best guys in the world is unheard of period. Most guys under 30 couldn't maintain themselves if they had the same kind of miles on them as Lebron has. What Lebron has done longevity wise might be the best record he's achieved, even though it's not official.
One VERY under appreciated fact that Chuck was spot on about Lebron's greatness was that he rarely ever did got in trouble for anything on & off the basketball court!! Rest of the basketball legends typically do early on their careers!! No legit reason why Lebron should be hated!
@Tyler Holt well these debate shows and majority of people usually debate between LeBron and Jordan. Never heard much between debated between Kareem and Jordan.
Lol well some people do think Kareem the Goat and the all time leading scorer is not why people think Bron the goat because many people already think he is. This just further adds to it.
Yup, LBJ has a better ppg (27.2 vs 24.6) at this current moment in time. Kareem was more dominant in his early years in terms of scoring, but after age 34 he never topped 25 ppg. Apart from his rookie year, Lebron has always scored greater than 25 ppg, and he would've gotten it much faster too if he hadn't been having injuries the past few years.
@@boomboy219 this is about the games played in the NBA genius. That doesn’t change anything. When you look at the time they both entered the league and count the amount of games lebron is about to score more than Kareem in much less games. This means he was scoring more not playing more games than Kareem
Kareem Abdul Jabbar has won on every level of basketball there is.people forget how great he was, and I’m not saying that he’s better than LBJ . but people have amnesia when it comes to how much he has accomplished.
@@leonhughes9014 What are you talking about? don’t diminish what the man has done, you do that you disrespect every player that’s played in his era, no matter what you think of him his accomplishments don’t lie 6 regular season MVPs, 6 NBA titles, come on man, he’s been the scoring leader for over 30 years.
@@jallison5457 Im not , but that accomplishment was easier then.. also I can do whatever I want and say whatever I want... my opinion.. if you want control someone by a dog.. clown
@@leonhughes9014 Actually these accomplishments are easier to get now, the new NBA is soft, nobody plays defense, all they shoot are threes, the league puts more emphasis on scoring. and you can say whatever you want, but don’t take away from what Kareem has done Bcus he played in a different era.
Shaq could have had so many more points. Passed Kareem? Not sure - but imagine if he was a little healthier in the latter half of his career. Goat either way
No healthier... judt didn't put in the work. He was overweight the last half of his career which shortened his prime. He himself has talked about it. Lebrons still as fit at 38 as he was at 18. He puts in the time & effort on his body.
@@jessekittrell2946 Yeah, the big centers always seem to fall off earlier. Just being that tall and large makes it harder to have that longevity. Lebron puts in the work big time though, and I agree Shaq did not. Big guys usually have injury problems, and you can't have much of those if you want real good longevity as well.
Another factor the muddies the water is in Kareem’s time the game was played at a slower pace. So teams got fewer offensive possessions in a game. Over Kareem’s and LeBron’s long careers that could be quite a differential in shot opportunities. That’s why it’s so difficult to pit players against once another from different eras.
But kareem also played without shot clock violations. They would just keep passing to him till he makes it. Lebron is a magic type player who's just so talented he's gonna get 30 easily.
I think it’s difficult to compare eras because of rule changes. but actually the 70s and 80s was a faster pace game than than the 2000s. Either way you could argue LeBron had the luxury of shooting 3s and you could say Kareem had the luxury of sitting in the post to get his points with less energy used as he got older but both achievements from Kareem and LeBron are crazy and great.
@@greg2797 i’d say the task of guarding the three degrades the body faster, and I doubt Kareem would’ve been good at it, he had his skillset and that was good enough
I was born two months after Kareem became #1 I'm scoring. I'm 38 right now, that's a lot of great players who have come and gone. LeBrons longevity, availability and consistency is crazy...
Nobody forgets how scary LeBron was on the Heat. These were his legacy-defining first championships, and most people agree that his 2012-13 season is his best ever.
@EmmanuelStalling Nonetheless, LBJ himself said that AFTER he left the Heat and matured his game play...that was his best (learning to pass better, less ego, etc.). He said that part of them losing to Dalls in the Finals, was because of those. Respect
Actually it was his 2nd stint with the Cavs were he REALLY dominanted. Had the greatest individual Finals of all time.... led the entire Finals in PPG/RPG/APG/SPG/BPG while playing against the league MVP and the league DPOY 😳😳😳😳
@homomagii bahaha no he didn't. That team played through wade that season. It was his franchise, he was the elder, & he had won a ring. After that Finals Wade even came out & said it needs to be Lebrons team if they are gonna win..... next season his shots went down while lebrons went up & what happened .... 🤔🤷🏼♂️
@@johnnygband playing along side a David Robinson & hall of fame Coach surely helps! Unfortunately Lebron didn’t have that luxury in the beginning of his career.
Great perspective Charles on how Lebron’s head start could be considered an edge, however this young man has been a trailblazer when it comes to the importance of consistency of conditioning throughout the years.
It’s not a great point, because statistically LeBron will have played LESS games. Something all these ignorant people gloss over is LeBron has more career points. He’s had that for a while, this is just a silly regular season record.
Sir Chatles is my all time fave non Raptor. I would rather spend five minutes with Sir Charles than all day with anyone else. Twenty minutes with Sir Charles and Jack Armstrong would have me swooning myself into the grave. But then I am 80 y.o.
@@phatch5444 but he played 4 more years than bron and was older when he retired. plus this current NBA has no defence in regular season, everyday someone scores 50 or 70
Chuck is a hypocrite with two more chips he trying to put Steph above lebron on that logic bill Russell 🐐clear then he bigs up lebron while low key putting him down, everyone believes there era was the hardest 💀
I agree with Barkley, MJ is the greatest ever but Lebron probably has the most impressive story in terms of straight out of high school. His longevity is crazy.
I feel like people(myself included) think their is a definitive answer to these questions when there is not. So glad you have this balanced perspective, that is more factual than any debates going on.
Hakeem Olajuwon is one of the most slept on superstars of alltime no doubt. I got him as the greatest player of alltime even though this debate is very subjective because of the different era's. Hakeem had many skills, footwork, agility, grace, power, IQ on both sides of the ball and court, adaptability, versatility and leadership. For a center he anchored the defense and he ran the offense, a former NBA player an all time great one of best power forwards of alltime named Kevin McHale once said Hakeem was one of the most freakiest players he has ever played against during his time because of the way he moved for a player who is nearly 7ft tall. Hakeem's story for an nba player is very interesting too, he started really focusing on basketball at the age 15 when he mostly played soccer. He credits playing soccer for helping him as a basketball player. ua-cam.com/video/APQt1Jb6hpA/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/22O2lApCBBs/v-deo.html
LeBron needs to 23ppg in around 58 games to be the all-time scoring champ. But I think what's important here is that he also needs to manage his playing time. He should be playing at around 30 mins per game as to not over-exert hos body and be ready when it matters most. Go LeBron.
the fact won't change that he had acouple advantages coming straight from high school but it doesn't diminish what he has done he's not my goat but he would be in anybody's goat convo i think that's amazing in its own right 💯
Folks are never gonna give this dude props. The good news is he’s gonna be Lebron if no one ever acknowledged this dude is the greatest to play the game. Not taking anything away from Steph.
@@goddsunstephenson6484 he didn't have more time, he just started earlier and was better for longer. Kareem played 200 more games than james, by the time james breaks the record, kareem will still have played in like 130 more games.
@@goddsunstephenson6484 right now, kareem has played 192 moregames than lebron. Lebron only needs to score 7 pts a game in those 192 games to tie kareem's accomplishment. I don't think asking for 7pts a game is outlandish to ask of lebron.....
@@goddsunstephenson6484 and lbj plays in a more talented more competitive era. Top 30 players in this leauge vs the top 30 players in kareems time….bottom 30 vs bottom 30 they are BUMS compared
The writing has been on the wall for all these longevity stats since removing the college requirement, that's 4 extra seasons of stats that LeBron had over Kareem who 100% could have played straight out of highschool, the man broke the college game. Longevity stats are not impressive anymore because everyone doesn't even get to start at the same point, it's like changing the unit of measurement in a race, you can't take the results seriously once you do that.
@@jacobvalenzuela6714 How did that translate to winning compared to others? I'd rather take a specialist who affects winning more, and winds up winning 5 championships in 6 Finals over a jack of all trades who also affects winning greatly but only manages to win 4 times out of 10
@@ShutThePuck bro he can make a bunch of make-a-wish kids title contenders, who did LeBron have? Zydrunas Ilgauskas? Mo Williams? On the other hand Kareem had Magic and Big games James. I think they’re both great but you’re statement is wrong about longevity. It has gotten slightly less valuable but the fact LeBron is still averaging 26-27 ppg at his age is crazy
To me, I go back and forth on the GOAT between MJ, Kareem and Bron. I said back in 2019 when Bron joined the Lakers that he would have to do 3 of the 4 following things in order to be the GOAT in my eyes: 1. Win another Championship✅ 2. Win another MVP (was top 5 candidates 2 years in row since 2019) 3. Become Top 5 all time in assists (needs 282 assists to become top 5) 4. Become all time leading scorer (1,294 points away from that)
how would any of those things make him "suddenly" a better player than jordan ...or anyone else for that matter how good someone is we already see way before we see stats so ...🤷♂
This is just a longevity criteria, it doesn't mean anything unless he's leading his teams to titles. Nobody cares about being top 5 this or top 10 that in specific statistical categories. Those are just trivial career achievement records, they are nowhere near the most vital aspects of a GOAT worthy resume.
@@him1019 many of them when he was 39 40 41 42 yrs old and no longer effective averaging12 pts pergame if ha had played from 18-22 instead lebron would not be close also lebron has played many more games than jordan so how do you forget THAT point in your arguments??? 🤷♂
@@futuretimetraveller8677 i wasnt talking about Jordan. Thats why i didnt bring him up. And it doesnt matter when he played those extra games. Kareem still played more games and was getting points in those games
@@him1019 it DOES matter when he played the extra games because he was old and not scoring as much as he would have at ages 18-22 simple logic lebron would not be close if kareem had been permitted to enter the nba at age 18
Tim Duncan outplayed LeBron in the finals (arguably Kawhi as well in ‘14)... Dirk outplayed LeBron in the finals... KD outplayed LeBron in the finals (albeit on the Warriors), Paul Pierce outplayed LeBron in a series, Dwight outplayed LeBron in a series, I can’t really think of a series other than Orlando in 95 when Shaq outplayed MJ after the baseball sojourn. LBJ is special but often not the dominant individual that MJ was all the time.
Paul Pierce didn't outplay LeBron in 2008 or 2010. He had a better team around him. The Dwight one in 2009 yea I might agree with that. Dwight was on a tear that year. Dirk in 2011 year I can't even argue that. KD? I'm assuming you're talking '17 and '18 when he had a stacked deck. LeBron outplayed in him in '12 tho.
U just lied Duncan had a way better team the first time Dwight my favorite player but no he did not outplay Bron Bron outplayed kawhi and it’s not close
@@anthonyanderson9303 Bron average 38/8/8 on 48% to Dwight 25 in Ho shape or form did he get outplay by Dwight test series. Aside from 2011 every series this dude listed Bron had an inferior team
You guys did a great job on comments for There is a lot of worthy players but you narrowed the top 3 excellently. These skills set should imply defense and offense combinations of leadership endurance on and off court to inspire and grow into a stronger league.
Greatest sports story ever told...kid comes in, really exceptionally great player.. can't get it done, shops himself out to franchise's willing to build super teams with him, goes on to have a good 2nd place career...won three real championships and beat 2nd line up heat at Disney land...not bad
It's crazy how in certain aspects, Steph is STILL underrated. Chuck asked a legit question. What if Steph wins another 2 titles? Heck it's possible he could win another MVP on top of that. You gotta start at least having a discussion about top 5 ever at that point. He's already the #2 point gaurd ever IMO.
He would have to be dominate in those finals runs to put him there, if he wins 2 more in the fashion he did this last one I dont think that would put him top 5
Bro steph has nvr had to be actually lead a team he’s always been surrounded by great players he wins because of team success mike Kobe bron etc where the reasons there team won
Charles Barkley hit the nail on the head with the final question on the biggest threat to Lebron’s legacy and claim to the GOAT debate. If Steph were to retire with 6 rings there would be questions about why another superstar won more rings in the same era all while staying on the same team while Lebron has bounced around chasing more talent. People would point out that Steph has the era defining skill set and that the league changed based on his play style and we’d be asking whether we’re sure Lebron is even the best player in his era.
Nah because championships are team accolades(if lebron would have been on gs with a coach and gm with brain and klay dray and kd it would have been over) ! Look at the personal accolades like all defense teams mvps fmvps assits leader all nba first team and tell me again that it is debatable…. Curry fans are a different breed
That’s if we aren’t using context. Two of those rings he won were with the best team ever assembled and the other was when Lebron had his two best teammates injured.
@@PandainAtlanta and two of Lebrons rings he was one of 3 all stars on his team at a time where you’d struggle to find more than a few teams with two. Especially in the East.
@@newrecruit100 You’re 100% right I’m not negating that, but to insist that that team is equivalent to the KD warriors is insane. That’s the only reason I don’t have Curry over Lebron in this Era . If Curry would’ve beat Lebron in 2017 with out KD he prolly would have.
@@pulhubt as a curry fan i have never thought that curry even touches lebron in any debate outside of the obvious shooting and dribbling but its not on curry that he was drafted into a better situation and the warriors also wouldnt be the same with bron bc they not getting those top 10-15 picks and they were a franshise in the mud besides the year they beat the mavs in the first round. lebron with good ownership and coaching would probably be the goat rn but everybodys careers are just very situational.
you could honestly say steph curry’s impact on the game rivals that of lebron or kareem. He has completely transformed the way the game is played. But the GOAT title is not just about impact on the game, its also ability to be the best player on both sides of the ball. This is why I don’t think Lebron will ever get unanimous recognition as the GOAT. He carried a heavier offensive load on many teams than Mike or Kareem but he did not have the consistent defensive presence that the other guys did.
As a GSW fan, I know they will never give Curry the top spot or even place him in the top 3 spot even if he adds more rings to his fingers. The guy is already too perfect for some people plus he has the greatest shooter accolade, plus his franchise is arguably the most hated because of how organized they are. But still will be the Goat to us
Barkley comment are spot on. Please break down this by number of game played. It's getting more opportunities to score more points.. and finally.. the game is easier today
couldn't agree more. Kareem got his points in the paint, through free throws so you wonder how many of LeBron's points came from free throws and dunks. Kareem also dealt with injuries so point total could have been a lot higher 😀. Anyway, both players have been great for the NBA and as role models.
@@FireAngelChris where did you find this stat? bottom line is kareem played in an era where there was no "load management" i.e. getting paid for nothing kareem would still be way ahead if he played from age 18 wouldnt be close
@@futuretimetraveller8677 lol ok and he didn’t and he not ahead. That factual stat can be found in NBA stats department. I am not sure why Bron passing up a great like kareem bothers people so much. People doing everything they can to pretend this isn’t impressive. It took over 30 years for someone to he great enough to break it.
But he wasn't an all-star in the season that the Bulls won their first chip. Jordan was the ONLY all-star on the 1990/91 Bulls. And Pip was out for much of the Bulls last championship winning season. Also injured during the 98 finals series. Another caveat.
Lebron and more recently Curry, redefined the game in the past decade. They will be the GOATs with MJ and Kareem when they retire. Always hard to compare eras so there will be recency bias and I'm sure Wilt and Bill have something to say about these opinions on the top 5.
Best sports story are the underdog stories, that turn to greatness, from like 8th seed to multiple champs. To putting fear in your opponents to winning the most in less time
He was an underdog. He carried a franchise as an 18 year old born of a teenage mother. He could have had so many pitfalls. No father single mother. Everything he understood about the game he learned on his own. He was a millionaire at 18 with control of his money. Like he is not broke he is a billionaire now. His story is amazing.
it don't make no difference. they all championships. cuh you win them rings with other 14 dudes on the team and all this depends on the guys up in the front office
They both are great but it's high time to change the records to average, because rules have changed which support offence more these days and Shaq even if Lebron reaches 40K, that record will be broken, since we are drafting kids out of high school. Out of respect to those who paved the way ahead, it's time we changed the way we look at stat these days too along with rule changes
@@MrShanester117 correct and Lebron is number 5 on that list for career scoring average at 27.13 ppg while Kareem is 17th at 24.61. To the original comment, this record has stood for over 30 years and now you want to change it lol. Nah bruh. That record lasting at least another 25 years. No current player is on pace to pass Lebron
Lebron points record will take a long long tme to break. Will need someone who averages 25pg for 25 years whilst avoiding major injuries, good luck with that.
Then you get to the philosophical quote, "The flame that burns Twice as bright burns half as long." Wilt and MJ had shorter careers because of their dominance. Where as LeBron is only slightly under them in average yet he's sustaining it FAR LONGER. Think about it like this, only counting seasons where they plated at least half of the games; MJ had only 11/13 full seasons averaging 25+ ppg. Wilt had 7/13 full seasons averaging 25+ ppg. LeBron has had 18/19 seasons averaging 25+ppg. (LeBron's only season under 25ppg was his rookie year) Sure, Wilt/MJ had more dominant offensive peaks. But LeBron has sustained his dominance far longer than they did. As of 2022: LeBron's career average: 27.1PPG (19 seasons) MJ's career average: 30.1 (13 seasons) Wilt's career average: 30.1 (13 seasons) Kareem's career average: 24.6 (20 seasons) Old man Jordan's last 2 seasons was averaging 21.2 PPG on the Wizards. Old man Wilt's last 2 seasons was averaging 14 PPG on the Lakers. Old man Kareem's last 2 seasons was averaging 12.4 PPG on the Lakers. Old man LeBron's last 2 seasons so far has averaged 27.9 PPG on the Lakers. Not to mention LeBron's going into his 20th season showing no signs of stopping, the new 2023 season just started and so far with only 1 game in LeBron averaging 31pts-8as-14reb. Last season LeBron also had a near career high 30PPG average in his 19th season. LeBron is somehow defeating the undefeatable, father time.
@@Flyhr Very true, but the average possessions per game and pace of the game and rules of the games are more offence oriented now. The average team points per game has jumped huge during these times. So instead of comparing one generation to next, we should stop the comparison and appreciate all during their rules and generations. Lebron is showing how athletes need to take care of their body for the next generation. Hence saying that record will be broken one day too. Not disrespecting anyone. Just appreciating everyone
People forgetting lebron literally created a super team to win his first 2 rings.....mj and Kareem stayed true to the grind and made their situations work for them....mj also never lost 2 games in a row
what exactly was mj suppose to "run away" from... drafted in '84 won a ring in '91 lebron was drafted in '03 gave everything he had to the cavs who didnt get a scotty pippen like player to help lebron and stayed til 2011. you work 8 years and never get a promotion while constantly doing the work of 2-3 people i bet youd leave too.
You do realize that Kareem had Oscar Robertson when he won his 1st ring and then forced a trade to LA. And then even tho LA had a great record they were able to get the #1 draft pick to get Magic. I'm sure if Cleveland gave young LeBron an all time great or was able to get the #1 draft pick even tho they won 60+ games that he would have at least 1 ring before Miami. And MJ struggled before Chicago management made changes and got Scottie and made Phil Jackson the head coach. Also the reason MJ retired after his 6th ring was because Chicago wasn't trying to pay to keep Scottie or Phil so MJ decided to retire. All this stuff is circumstantial and based on how good an organization does their job. BTW I personally have 1. MJ 2. Bron 3. Kareem but what you said just doesn't make sense to me
Love how people bring up Stephs defense but never hold it against Magic or Bird lol. Not to mention Steph is a good team defender which is way more important than 1v1 defense
Magic and Bird weren't picked on like Steph was and still is to a point. Neither were great defensively, but Bird made all-defensive teams. And Magic was sound defensively and versatile.
Lebron the greatest NBA story ever?! Not even close. He became what he was expected to become. Which is admirable. But the greatest story of all time in the NBA is by far Giannis. He came from the streets of Athens. And nobody expected of him to become what he became..
Lol it’s Bron but this is all subjective. It’s very few people you can point to that live up to what they were suppose to while exceeding that. Especially when you have pressure on your shoulders.
@@muhammedadil240 lol LeBron is the greatest of his generation. LeBron > Curry All curry has over LeBron is a better team like 2017-2018 with KD and GSW GM is much more competent than Cavs/Lakers GM
No Shaq. The perception that Lebron is a pass first guy is wrong. Career wise, he’s averaged more shots per game than Kobe, KD, Larry Bird, and Kareem. They’re all looked at as scorers or shooters, yet he’s shot more/game than all of them.
@@ammonquitalig9077 well I can’t guess what he meant, I can only correct what he actually said. And even if that’s true, passing isn’t his greatest attribute even then. It’s still scoring. You don’t become the all time leader in points, when that’s not your greatest strength.
@@greg2797 does it hurt Lebron's legacy? He also had the most regular saason double digit in scoring, playoffs not included because he scored 8 points in the Finals and 7 points against the Pacers😂
These guys love to bring up that Bron came out of high school. So did Kobe, Garnet, and others. Bron was that guy from day 1. That's not his fault the others took time to develop. Just give the guy his credit. It doesn't take away from the other guys greatness.
Kareem may have played longer, but Chuck is right - 4 yr head start AND LeBron shoots 3s. Take LeBron's 3 away, and he's in 7th place. Make those 3s 2s and he's more than 3K away from Kareem.
@UCtWmNy4M8cSrEiPfk91Iorg not punishing at all. Just saying that it's a tougher argument than just "LeBron is going to catch Kareem, so he must be better."
@@leonhughes9014 absolutely - and, the question was "LeBron passes Kareem so is he better." my argument is, if you and I run a sprint, but I get a 4 second head start, it doesn't make me a better runner. No one will ever be right about the greatest, but in my opinion, LeBron had an advantage.
@@islandvibes9076 well id say the level of player is better now across all the teams.. so the advantage therefore disappears . also if lebron took less 3 shots he would drive to basket more where his conversion is way highness.. so stats can be manipulated.. you also have to look at assists too... Lebron is better .. considerably
The craziest part to me, besides the points, is that he will also finish top 5 all time in assists and top 10 all time in steals as well. This man is from another planet.
He's also currently Top 10 in three-pointers and has a decent chance to get into the Top 5 (he's 249 behind Korver at the time I'm writing this). Guys like Klay, Paul George, and KD will eventually pass him if they can stay healthy (and then maybe way down the line, Trae Young)... but it's not unrealistic to think he'll sit in the Top 10 of this category for a long time as well.
And top 10 in steals
Don't forget 30k 10k 10k only player ever
@@damonlaw8218 He will forever be the only member of the 40k 10k 10k club
He is a real-life Primarch.
Google it lol
You cannot write the history of the NBA without Lebron James....no matter HOW you feel about him. He IS a legend of the game.
Facts. The hilarious part is the amount of young casuals who call him a bum, but also place him as the 2-3rd best player ever.
Sure you can... and 18 year old millionaire calling himself the king? Calling himself the greatest 13 years into his career? The media has sold this guy from jump street... he's ok! He is great but nothing spectacular except what the media tells you he is! Like right now... every dunk has to be ON MY GOD, LABRON AT 37.. SHOWING UP THE LEAGUE? THERE'S MANY MANY PLAYERS PLAY AS LONG, PLAY AS HARD, AND DO MORE! It's jus packaged for Labron atm!
Kareem played 20 years, his points lack 3's... Labron catching him isn't all that impressive! When Curry, Klay, and others reach their retirement? The point totals will be crazy... Labron is an average athlete with all the media behind him! Yes been force fed to you... 🤣 hes great but nothing special!
@@chuckd1586 tell mw a player who can play like him,and as effective and intelligent as him..and as CONSISTENT as him?..is there a player who average 28-30pts ppg from day one until 20th season?you dont know how to play basketball it looks like easy but it's not...
@@chuckd1586 All I can do is laugh at your comment….🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@chuckd1586 probably the worst take ive ever seen LOL who at the age of 38 is putting up 29 PPG? name me one player that "PLAY AS LONG AS HARD/DOES MORE"? I'm not the biggest fan of lebron after his "im the greatest" take but you cannot deny his longevity, and sheer impact on the court. Still a top 5 player in year 20...
Chuck makes a good point. At 18 years old LeBron was as good as advertised when he came into the league. I've never seen another player in any sport come in with such high expectations. And to do what he has done so far in his career is incredible.
and he actually surpassed those expectations
Pele at 17 (before my time). Maradona, Ronaldo (Brazilian) and Messi. All were as good as advertised as teenagers who went on to Mount Rushmore status in their sport.
@@bolder2009 and why are you talking about football?
@@pitrson666 Because the original comment of this thread made a point that he or she had "never seen another player in ANY SPORT come in with such high expectations." I gave examples from another sport.
@@bolder2009 either way even in middle school he was getting hated on and in high school was called the chosen one he was just supposed to come into the league and be great
We can argue this all day but at the end of the day they are all legends.
Exactly! at the end of the day we don't know, it's what we feel and everyone feels different
Lebron would average 50 in Jordan’s era
only MJ fans always want argue / debates
we just need appreciates this two as a great Legend in this League!
LBJ 40Kpts, 10Krebs, 10Kassts.. and many times they took his Teams into Finals - NOT BAD at all
but MJ Fans - always said Dont count it.. dont count it.. just MJ 6x Rings
@@Bungycb And Jordan would average 50 in this soft no hand checking era 🤷🏾♂️ so your point?
@@Bungycb Not a chance
They had a meaningful and engaging discussion debating such a hot topic - WITHOUT putting anybody down. That's how you do it. Best show in the business hands down
Ye their all respectfull shen it comes to eachother and the players they are debating, Skip and Shannon for example is just one meatrider and one hater.
@@simenfalkenas6601 you must be 12, Chuck has gotten into it for disrespecting Iverson, Bron, Dray you name it....... if Shay is a meatrider what do you call the guy who said the Warriors would never win a ring?
Much better than Skip Bayless...
LeBron has earned every accolade, I'm glad Kareem is still with us and hopefully he will be there to pay tribute. Kareem is a great man on and off the court, he is a worldwide treasure.
Kareem is a great man. Unfortunately, the one black spot for him is his treatment of LeBron James I doubt that Kareem will be there to pay tribute. Maybe he treats LeBron like that, because he knew that this day was coming.
KAREM WENT TO COLLEGE LEBRON DIDNT IF HE HAD HED BE NO WHERE NEAR KAREEM le China James is just a dumb circus animal. He's. The greatest player who needed great players around him to be called great everything has been given to him. Given not earned
You sure every accolades? How about dpoy?
@@MrBleedformeu had to google and check first. Marc Gasol got his mvp.
Not really Kareem’s record isn’t really in jeopardy because back then you couldn’t go straight to the nba. You had to go to college 4 years if Kareem came in at 18 his record would never be broken so you have to go by how many games they played
An all time great chasing another all time great. When LeBron passes Kareem it will be an incredible moment.
Stephen Curry is the Best NBA player as of now. Le-Bum James is straight up garbage.
STOP comparing the 2, LeBron dominated a creampuff social media cuck era, where Kareem had to fight through the civil rights movement.
Fax and no-one will ever be able to chase Lebron’s #1 All-Time scoring title
And it's sad that Kareem's kinda salty about it too.
hopefully he passes him with a Sky Hook
This really puts what Kareem did into true perspective.
That's why I always had him 2nd
He also played in a significantly harder era(s)
@@Barnabus007 did he play in the 90s👈🏾
@@chadbutler8634 No man he retired in like 89. The 70 and 80s were crazy physical. I think the 90s were as well, but not like the 80s.
@@Barnabus007 😂 what 90s were the best era .
Sooo happy these 4 are back.
Let’s cherish every moment while LeBron is still in the league. He’s a very rare player.
1 of 1
🧢
I still think MJ is the best player that I have ever seen. But I agree, we will all miss Lebron when he is gone...
@@bryanreynolds4915 By far 😂
But I respect LBJ for His training ethics, for the way he tooked care of His body…and so on
I cannot all star team losing with the goat i their team thats awful to watch just resign after he pass kareem
Wilt was a Laker when he got the record. Kareem was a Laker when he got the record. Lebron is a Laker and will get the record.
f**k lebron . kareem didnt go to 3 teams
LeBron will leave soon. 😆 🤣 😂 😹 😆
Wilt is the goat
and Lebron couldn't carry those two guys' shoes.
Illuminati 😂😂
Imagine if he do the sky hook to pass his record lol
Lol that'll be crazy
Half court 3 would be better
That’ll be hard 😂😂😂😂
He's never done a sky hook, so it will certainly clank
Got to
Kenny is the greatest in saying something without saying anything
Agreed
He's the only person on the show who actually says insightful things. Chuck and Shaq just say what everyone is saying in the barbershop, except they're in the HoF, so it sounds much deeper.
😂
Not true..... Kenny hit the nail on the head.... Steph doesn't affect the game overall like Lebron/MJ/Kareem/etc. His team won 3 rings during his prime when he was winning regular season MVPS.... & he wasn't Finals MVP for any of them.... even placed THIRD in the '15 Finals.
I've been watching the NBA since the late 80's. I told a friend of mine, way back, that nobody is passing that Kareem record because of the number of productive years a player has to play. I'm glad to have been proven wrong.
4 year head start straight out of high school in the weakest nba era.. Record stood no chance. period.
@@diffuser2459 The 2000s were the toughest NBA era and those Cavs were the most dreadful team you could possibly have.
@@dusk6159 lol got anymore jokes?
@@dusk6159 yeah I mean I don't want to say you don't know what you're talking about because you might be a great basketball fan but you're just wrong it's kind of opinion it's just wrong
@@diffuser2459 ppl forget how hard it is to last this long in the league. Then having to be ELITE for this long too is another aspect. Yes he did get a head start but he had to put in the work too.
LeBron's average per game is still higher than Kareem's by 2.53 points and even though Kareen started at age 22 he still has over 2 full season worth of games played over LeBron right now. 192 in fact. So while Kareem was older when he first started LeBron is going to break the record in fewer games. This is just a longevity stat and nothing more.
An even more unbreakable record than this is LeBron's consecutive games with 10 or more points. Nobody is ever touching that.
LeBron has a higher usage rate as well. The ball is in his hands more often so he has more autonomy with the plays on offence. Something to consider as well. Context matters in these comparisons.
let's not forget also: Kareem, ONE three-pointer his entire career.....
@@bolder2009 Lebron is also top 10 all time in assists. So he's not ball hogging the ball like you would think for a top 10 scorer.
@@10ToesDownWithBass people seem to forget that. And I believe he's in the top 40 all-time in rebounding.
Totally agree and both have played 20 seasons and Lebron will get it done a lesser games than Kareem.
What Chuck said about King James truly makes him one of a kind, agreed!
TNT producers knew what they were doing when they made LeBron bald at the comparison 😂😂
That Kareem armchair is also a nice touch 😂
Game one and Kenny is in mid season form of making absolutely no sense 😂😂😂
Kenny is always bullshitting around. Either non sensical, or obvious facts just to look smart. TNT messed up when they chose kenny
It never turns off he prob like that at home too lol
LOL underrated comment
@@lucky889s9 How could they have messed up when this is literally the best sports show ever created
@@emmanueloppong9778 nah, bus driver Kenny adds nothing to the show. The other 3 carried
This guy LeBron is just unbelievable. How is playing as his age. Its unheard before...
Yeah, 38 after 20 years of wear and tear is really where it's at though. I could definitely see him maintaining as he aged even into his 40s and older if he didn't have the miles on his body, which is something I have seen in UFC before when a 45 year was the top fighter in the company and still improving, but he also started at 34 so he didn't have the miles, but to do it a professional sport after over 20 years straight, while having to play literally EVERY DAY against in the best guys in the world is unheard of period. Most guys under 30 couldn't maintain themselves if they had the same kind of miles on them as Lebron has. What Lebron has done longevity wise might be the best record he's achieved, even though it's not official.
One VERY under appreciated fact that Chuck was spot on about Lebron's greatness was that he rarely ever did got in trouble for anything on & off the basketball court!! Rest of the basketball legends typically do early on their careers!! No legit reason why Lebron should be hated!
In my opinion, no one labels Kareem as the GOAT for being the 'All Time Leading Scorer.' So why should that make LeBron the GOAT?
@Tyler Holt well these debate shows and majority of people usually debate between LeBron and Jordan. Never heard much between debated between Kareem and Jordan.
MJ is the one and only GOAT 💯 You can’t leave context out and even with they, MJ is still the better overall player 🔥😎
Lol well some people do think Kareem the Goat and the all time leading scorer is not why people think Bron the goat because many people already think he is. This just further adds to it.
@Tyler Holt no they don’t. For the past 5 years, it’s been Jordan versus Lebron. So, why would passing Kareem make Lebron better than Jordan?
Your statement clearly shows how Kareem is disrespected
Number of games Lebron will do it in 100 less games Kareem played 20 years to stop it
Thank you I was just pointing that out.
Yup, LBJ has a better ppg (27.2 vs 24.6) at this current moment in time. Kareem was more dominant in his early years in terms of scoring, but after age 34 he never topped 25 ppg. Apart from his rookie year, Lebron has always scored greater than 25 ppg, and he would've gotten it much faster too if he hadn't been having injuries the past few years.
Kareem went to college…of course he’s gonna do in less games
@@boomboy219Kareem going to college has nothing to do with Lebron breaking the record in less games than Kareem played in the nba.
@@boomboy219 this is about the games played in the NBA genius. That doesn’t change anything. When you look at the time they both entered the league and count the amount of games lebron is about to score more than Kareem in much less games. This means he was scoring more not playing more games than Kareem
didnt realize chuck showing some respect at bron
Kareem Abdul Jabbar has won on every level of basketball there is.people forget how great he was, and I’m not saying that he’s better than LBJ . but people have amnesia when it comes to how much he has accomplished.
he was 300ft tall though playing with amateurs
@@leonhughes9014 What are you talking about? don’t diminish what the man has done, you do that you disrespect every player that’s played in his era, no matter what you think of him his accomplishments don’t lie 6 regular season MVPs, 6 NBA titles, come on man, he’s been the scoring leader for over 30 years.
@@jallison5457 Im not , but that accomplishment was easier then.. also I can do whatever I want and say whatever I want... my opinion.. if you want control someone by a dog.. clown
@@leonhughes9014 Actually these accomplishments are easier to get now, the new NBA is soft, nobody plays defense, all they shoot are threes, the league puts more emphasis on scoring. and you can say whatever you want, but don’t take away from what Kareem has done Bcus he played in a different era.
@@jallison5457 its my opinion, end of.. u dont have to agree thats cool..
Shaq could have had so many more points. Passed Kareem? Not sure - but imagine if he was a little healthier in the latter half of his career. Goat either way
No healthier... judt didn't put in the work. He was overweight the last half of his career which shortened his prime. He himself has talked about it. Lebrons still as fit at 38 as he was at 18. He puts in the time & effort on his body.
How many more pts does Shaq have if he shoots 65% from the free throw line?
@@jessekittrell2946 Yeah, the big centers always seem to fall off earlier. Just being that tall and large makes it harder to have that longevity. Lebron puts in the work big time though, and I agree Shaq did not. Big guys usually have injury problems, and you can't have much of those if you want real good longevity as well.
So happy that these four guys are back.
Another factor the muddies the water is in Kareem’s time the game was played at a slower pace. So teams got fewer offensive possessions in a game. Over Kareem’s and LeBron’s long careers that could be quite a differential in shot opportunities. That’s why it’s so difficult to pit players against once another from different eras.
But kareem also played without shot clock violations. They would just keep passing to him till he makes it. Lebron is a magic type player who's just so talented he's gonna get 30 easily.
The 70s and 80s were factually a faster paced league than today. The 90s and 2000s were slower tho.
I think it’s difficult to compare eras because of rule changes. but actually the 70s and 80s was a faster pace game than than the 2000s. Either way you could argue LeBron had the luxury of shooting 3s and you could say Kareem had the luxury of sitting in the post to get his points with less energy used as he got older but both achievements from Kareem and LeBron are crazy and great.
@@greg2797 i’d say the task of guarding the three degrades the body faster, and I doubt Kareem would’ve been good at it, he had his skillset and that was good enough
the 80s were insanely fast. not sure what you're talking about.
I was born two months after Kareem became #1 I'm scoring. I'm 38 right now, that's a lot of great players who have come and gone. LeBrons longevity, availability and consistency is crazy...
I think alot of people forget how scary LeBron was on the heat. He was an entire threat to everyone when he was on the court. greatest ever
Nobody forgets how scary LeBron was on the Heat. These were his legacy-defining first championships, and most people agree that his 2012-13 season is his best ever.
@EmmanuelStalling Nonetheless, LBJ himself said that AFTER he left the Heat and matured his game play...that was his best (learning to pass better, less ego, etc.). He said that part of them losing to Dalls in the Finals, was because of those. Respect
Dirk destroyed lebron so stop it
Actually it was his 2nd stint with the Cavs were he REALLY dominanted. Had the greatest individual Finals of all time.... led the entire Finals in PPG/RPG/APG/SPG/BPG while playing against the league MVP and the league DPOY 😳😳😳😳
@homomagii bahaha no he didn't. That team played through wade that season. It was his franchise, he was the elder, & he had won a ring.
After that Finals Wade even came out & said it needs to be Lebrons team if they are gonna win..... next season his shots went down while lebrons went up & what happened .... 🤔🤷🏼♂️
There's nothing to debate, we're all great.
*they’re
@@THE-NC2 we're*
We're all black friends
@@KobaniacMinded well played....
No.
When Lebron is gone he’s going to be missed hate him all you want but we’ll never see another like him he’s one of one
can't wait until he's gone maybe they will start giving other better players the attention they deserve
Anyone remember the OG "Run Through The Tape"???
A legend!
Chris Webber lol remember kids in life always run through the tape!
C-Webb for like a month agitated the sh** out of Kenny Smith. Dude couldn't even run to the video board right lol.
The greatest sports story of all time is two sisters from Compton hard courts playing each other in a Wimbledon final, and there isn't a close second.
Good to see the tnt team back for the season. Missed their commentary and humour
I would say Tim Duncan was great as advertised. Since day one the dude was a different beast.
Agreed.
Yeah, agree. But he was 21 and played College. Garnett, Kobe and Lebron only played highschool
@@mikkelborre9762 I don't understand why you brought that up that not even the context of what they're talking about.
true, duncan won his first ring as a rookie and won 5 rings overall, more than lebron and no one talks about him
@@johnnygband playing along side a David Robinson & hall of fame Coach surely helps! Unfortunately Lebron didn’t have that luxury in the beginning of his career.
Great perspective Charles on how Lebron’s head start could be considered an edge, however this young man has been a trailblazer when it comes to the importance of consistency of conditioning throughout the years.
It’s not a great point, because statistically LeBron will have played LESS games.
Something all these ignorant people gloss over is LeBron has more career points. He’s had that for a while, this is just a silly regular season record.
LeBron will play over 100 games to get the record and almost 700 fewer shots
Actually it was terrible since Lebron is passing Kareem in less games & less shots.
Chuck always keeps it real 💯
but he didnt have a 4 year head start, Kareem played 20 years just like this season for lebron.
Sir Chatles is my all time fave non Raptor. I would rather spend five minutes with Sir Charles than all day with anyone else. Twenty minutes with Sir Charles and Jack Armstrong would have me swooning myself into the grave. But then I am 80 y.o.
@@phatch5444 but he played 4 more years than bron and was older when he retired. plus this current NBA has no defence in regular season, everyday someone scores 50 or 70
Chuck is a hypocrite with two more chips he trying to put Steph above lebron on that logic bill Russell 🐐clear then he bigs up lebron while low key putting him down, everyone believes there era was the hardest 💀
I agree with Barkley, MJ is the greatest ever but Lebron probably has the most impressive story in terms of straight out of high school. His longevity is crazy.
I feel like people(myself included) think their is a definitive answer to these questions when there is not. So glad you have this balanced perspective, that is more factual than any debates going on.
chuck made no real point lebron and Kareem both played 20 years
Hakeem Olajuwon is one of the most slept on superstars of alltime no doubt. I got him as the greatest player of alltime even though this debate is very subjective because of the different era's.
Hakeem had many skills, footwork, agility, grace, power, IQ on both sides of the ball and court, adaptability, versatility and leadership. For a center he anchored the defense and he ran the offense, a former NBA player an all time great one of best power forwards of alltime named Kevin McHale once said Hakeem was one of the most freakiest players he has ever played against during his time because of the way he moved for a player who is nearly 7ft tall.
Hakeem's story for an nba player is very interesting too, he started really focusing on basketball at the age 15 when he mostly played soccer. He credits playing soccer for helping him as a basketball player.
ua-cam.com/video/APQt1Jb6hpA/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/22O2lApCBBs/v-deo.html
@@bolo5190 Hakeem definitely had an underrated career
WILT GOD >>> OLAJUWON GOAT >>> WAGON JABBAR AND JORDAN WHO NEED SUPERTEAM
LeBron needs to 23ppg in around 58 games to be the all-time scoring champ. But I think what's important here is that he also needs to manage his playing time. He should be playing at around 30 mins per game as to not over-exert hos body and be ready when it matters most. Go LeBron.
35 mpg is likely.
the fact won't change that he had acouple advantages coming straight from high school but it doesn't diminish what he has done he's not my goat but he would be in anybody's goat convo i think that's amazing in its own right 💯
Barkley described James’ career best.
No doubt he's a legend not only as a player but as a person.
If backhanded compliment was a person 😂 Sir Charles
LeBron James was born the same year Kareem Abdul-Jabbar broke the NBA All Time Scoring Record in 1984.
Thank you Shaq for just answering the question👏👏👏
Folks are never gonna give this dude props. The good news is he’s gonna be Lebron if no one ever acknowledged this dude is the greatest to play the game. Not taking anything away from Steph.
Shaquille O'Neal spoke very well about LeBron
THE GIOATS OF SPORTS SHOW ARE BACK!!
Chuck sounding like a Golden state fan...what
If Curry ends up with 6 rings that would be crazy. He's had a large impact on the game too. As far as the game itself.
Yes. Buts a horrible impact. Everybody clonking threes.
I never realized that Kareem was behind Lebron's pace in points by a few seasons almost all of his career.
Kareem was winning a championship with UCLA, Lbj didn’t go to college. He had more time to get NBA POINTS.
@@goddsunstephenson6484 he didn't have more time, he just started earlier and was better for longer.
Kareem played 200 more games than james, by the time james breaks the record, kareem will still have played in like 130 more games.
@@goddsunstephenson6484 right now, kareem has played 192 moregames than lebron. Lebron only needs to score 7 pts a game in those 192 games to tie kareem's accomplishment. I don't think asking for 7pts a game is outlandish to ask of lebron.....
@@bobzombie2710 lbj doesn’t have the rings to reach Kareems level.
@@goddsunstephenson6484 and lbj plays in a more talented more competitive era. Top 30 players in this leauge vs the top 30 players in kareems time….bottom 30 vs bottom 30 they are BUMS compared
The writing has been on the wall for all these longevity stats since removing the college requirement, that's 4 extra seasons of stats that LeBron had over Kareem who 100% could have played straight out of highschool, the man broke the college game. Longevity stats are not impressive anymore because everyone doesn't even get to start at the same point, it's like changing the unit of measurement in a race, you can't take the results seriously once you do that.
Still crazy how an 18 yr old dominated the league off rip😊
LeBron is a better all around player
@@jacobvalenzuela6714 How did that translate to winning compared to others? I'd rather take a specialist who affects winning more, and winds up winning 5 championships in 6 Finals over a jack of all trades who also affects winning greatly but only manages to win 4 times out of 10
@@ShutThePuck bro he can make a bunch of make-a-wish kids title contenders, who did LeBron have? Zydrunas Ilgauskas? Mo Williams? On the other hand Kareem had Magic and Big games James. I think they’re both great but you’re statement is wrong about longevity. It has gotten slightly less valuable but the fact LeBron is still averaging 26-27 ppg at his age is crazy
@@ShutThePuck Also how is LeBron beating the justice league?
To me, I go back and forth on the GOAT between MJ, Kareem and Bron. I said back in 2019 when Bron joined the Lakers that he would have to do 3 of the 4 following things in order to be the GOAT in my eyes:
1. Win another Championship✅
2. Win another MVP (was top 5 candidates 2 years in row since 2019)
3. Become Top 5 all time in assists (needs 282 assists to become top 5)
4. Become all time leading scorer (1,294 points away from that)
how would any of those things make him "suddenly" a better player than jordan ...or anyone else for that matter
how good someone is we already see way before we see stats so ...🤷♂
@@futuretimetraveller8677 that's just my criteria 🤷🏽♂️
This is just a longevity criteria, it doesn't mean anything unless he's leading his teams to titles. Nobody cares about being top 5 this or top 10 that in specific statistical categories. Those are just trivial career achievement records, they are nowhere near the most vital aspects of a GOAT worthy resume.
@@QuestionEverything562 they are reaching for straws bro
@@QuestionEverything562 everybody is entitled to their own opinion. I just look at the totality of it all
Chuck makes a good point with the curry convo
with the fact that kareem was not permitted to turn pro at 18 as well
lebron would would be nowhere NEAR the record otherwise
@@futuretimetraveller8677 kareem has played more games than LeBron
@@him1019 many of them when he was 39 40 41 42 yrs old and no longer effective averaging12 pts pergame
if ha had played from 18-22 instead lebron would not be close
also lebron has played many more games than jordan so how do you forget THAT point in your arguments??? 🤷♂
@@futuretimetraveller8677 i wasnt talking about Jordan. Thats why i didnt bring him up. And it doesnt matter when he played those extra games. Kareem still played more games and was getting points in those games
@@him1019 it DOES matter when he played the extra games because he was old and not scoring as much as he would have at ages 18-22
simple logic
lebron would not be close if kareem had been permitted to enter the nba at age 18
Tim Duncan outplayed LeBron in the finals (arguably Kawhi as well in ‘14)... Dirk outplayed LeBron in the finals... KD outplayed LeBron in the finals (albeit on the Warriors), Paul Pierce outplayed LeBron in a series, Dwight outplayed LeBron in a series, I can’t really think of a series other than Orlando in 95 when Shaq outplayed MJ after the baseball sojourn. LBJ is special but often not the dominant individual that MJ was all the time.
coz he is playing team basketball
Paul Pierce didn't outplay LeBron in 2008 or 2010. He had a better team around him.
The Dwight one in 2009 yea I might agree with that. Dwight was on a tear that year.
Dirk in 2011 year I can't even argue that.
KD? I'm assuming you're talking '17 and '18 when he had a stacked deck. LeBron outplayed in him in '12 tho.
U just lied Duncan had a way better team the first time Dwight my favorite player but no he did not outplay Bron Bron outplayed kawhi and it’s not close
Why did you lie like this ??
@@anthonyanderson9303 Bron average 38/8/8 on 48% to Dwight 25 in Ho shape or form did he get outplay by Dwight test series. Aside from 2011 every series this dude listed Bron had an inferior team
Greatest gm/player ever 😂
Hopefully LeBron put the record way out of reach. So it would be his record forever 🐐🔥
You guys did a great job on comments for There is a lot of worthy players but you narrowed the top 3 excellently. These skills set should imply defense and offense combinations of leadership endurance on and off court to inspire and grow into a stronger league.
Chuck forgot about Tim Duncan. Duncan was also amazing his entire career, beginning as a rookie.
Timmy went to college. I think he’s talking about hyped high school players delivering from day 1
Barkley nailed it.
Greatest sports story ever told...kid comes in, really exceptionally great player.. can't get it done, shops himself out to franchise's willing to build super teams with him, goes on to have a good 2nd place career...won three real championships and beat 2nd line up heat at Disney land...not bad
The boys are back in town
There wasn't a 3 point line until the 1979-80 season. After Kareem had already been in the league for 10 years.
It's crazy how in certain aspects, Steph is STILL underrated. Chuck asked a legit question. What if Steph wins another 2 titles? Heck it's possible he could win another MVP on top of that. You gotta start at least having a discussion about top 5 ever at that point. He's already the #2 point gaurd ever IMO.
He would have to be dominate in those finals runs to put him there, if he wins 2 more in the fashion he did this last one I dont think that would put him top 5
Bro steph has nvr had to be actually lead a team he’s always been surrounded by great players he wins because of team success mike Kobe bron etc where the reasons there team won
@@dontaefreeman1816 how tf wasn't Steph the reason they won last year?
Charles Barkley hit the nail on the head with the final question on the biggest threat to Lebron’s legacy and claim to the GOAT debate.
If Steph were to retire with 6 rings there would be questions about why another superstar won more rings in the same era all while staying on the same team while Lebron has bounced around chasing more talent. People would point out that Steph has the era defining skill set and that the league changed based on his play style and we’d be asking whether we’re sure Lebron is even the best player in his era.
Nah because championships are team accolades(if lebron would have been on gs with a coach and gm with brain and klay dray and kd it would have been over) !
Look at the personal accolades like all defense teams mvps fmvps assits leader all nba first team and tell me again that it is debatable…. Curry fans are a different breed
That’s if we aren’t using context. Two of those rings he won were with the best team ever assembled and the other was when Lebron had his two best teammates injured.
@@PandainAtlanta and two of Lebrons rings he was one of 3 all stars on his team at a time where you’d struggle to find more than a few teams with two. Especially in the East.
@@newrecruit100 You’re 100% right I’m not negating that, but to insist that that team is equivalent to the KD warriors is insane. That’s the only reason I don’t have Curry over Lebron in this Era . If Curry would’ve beat Lebron in 2017 with out KD he prolly would have.
@@pulhubt as a curry fan i have never thought that curry even touches lebron in any debate outside of the obvious shooting and dribbling but its not on curry that he was drafted into a better situation and the warriors also wouldnt be the same with bron bc they not getting those top 10-15 picks and they were a franshise in the mud besides the year they beat the mavs in the first round. lebron with good ownership and coaching would probably be the goat rn but everybodys careers are just very situational.
you could honestly say steph curry’s impact on the game rivals that of lebron or kareem. He has completely transformed the way the game is played. But the GOAT title is not just about impact on the game, its also ability to be the best player on both sides of the ball. This is why I don’t think Lebron will ever get unanimous recognition as the GOAT. He carried a heavier offensive load on many teams than Mike or Kareem but he did not have the consistent defensive presence that the other guys did.
As a GSW fan, I know they will never give Curry the top spot or even place him in the top 3 spot even if he adds more rings to his fingers. The guy is already too perfect for some people plus he has the greatest shooter accolade, plus his franchise is arguably the most hated because of how organized they are. But still will be the Goat to us
I could’ve listened to these guys talk about this topic for another 30 minutes
Barkley comment are spot on. Please break down this by number of game played. It's getting more opportunities to score more points.. and finally.. the game is easier today
Lol well Kareem played more games.
couldn't agree more. Kareem got his points in the paint, through free throws so you wonder how many of LeBron's points came from free throws and dunks. Kareem also dealt with injuries so point total could have been a lot higher 😀. Anyway, both players have been great for the NBA and as role models.
@@FireAngelChris about MJ?
@@FireAngelChris where did you find this stat?
bottom line is kareem played in an era where there was no "load management" i.e. getting paid for nothing
kareem would still be way ahead if he played from age 18
wouldnt be close
@@futuretimetraveller8677 lol ok and he didn’t and he not ahead. That factual stat can be found in NBA stats department. I am not sure why Bron passing up a great like kareem bothers people so much. People doing everything they can to pretend this isn’t impressive. It took over 30 years for someone to he great enough to break it.
It will be the single greatest achievement in ball history.
😂🤣
Caveat. That all-star jordan had wasn't just an all-star. It was a top 10 in the league player.
But he wasn't an all-star in the season that the Bulls won their first chip. Jordan was the ONLY all-star on the 1990/91 Bulls. And Pip was out for much of the Bulls last championship winning season. Also injured during the 98 finals series. Another caveat.
Chuck making nice with the Dubs fans! LOL it's a new day...
points have values...kareem pts and the others were hard earned... lebums pts were from 1st to 3rd qtr and become passive in the 4th....
It will be a great Moment!!!! Still not the greatest but he is Great!!! Kareem will be greater to me always ❤❤
Times has sure change to see Chuck back Steph more than Kenny at the end
Imagine if Kareem came in at 18😳. That's an extra 6 years of points.
Extra 4
@@Barnabus007 I wonder how many points he scored in College.
@@Barnabus007 I saw Kareem starting the nba at 25
@@priztucker I mean we could look it up, but I don't think it equals potential NBA points
@@priztucker I don't think man..not arguing, just saying I think his rookie season was 69 and he was born in 47
Facts! Even though Steph is not in the conversation he is the ONE that changed the whole landscape of the NBA and the game itself. Let that sink.
Lebron and more recently Curry, redefined the game in the past decade. They will be the GOATs with MJ and Kareem when they retire. Always hard to compare eras so there will be recency bias and I'm sure Wilt and Bill have something to say about these opinions on the top 5.
This probably one of the only comment sections where I see sensible basketball talk.
Best sports story are the underdog stories, that turn to greatness, from like 8th seed to multiple champs. To putting fear in your opponents to winning the most in less time
He was an underdog. He carried a franchise as an 18 year old born of a teenage mother. He could have had so many pitfalls. No father single mother. Everything he understood about the game he learned on his own. He was a millionaire at 18 with control of his money. Like he is not broke he is a billionaire now. His story is amazing.
@@Eb-dw3tq an underdog…is not the person everyone expects to be great lol that’s not how it works
@@ShadedSage In life he was an underdog. He was born to a 16 year old single mother. How much underdog do you get??😂😂
@@Eb-dw3tq we talking about nba and basketball, not outside of basketball stay with it
@@Eb-dw3tq cristiano ronaldo is more underdog than him. muhammad ali was more underdog than lebron.
Chuck is right.
NO!! Chuck is 100 percent WRONG on LeBron, whose been ARROGANT, NARCISSISTIC and DISRESPECTFUL to many, many people including President Trump!!
Lebron would average 50 in Jordan’s era
@@Bungycb *Pure speculation and based on nothing but that and bias*
@@Lucas-mt3to Lebron has better stats. That’s based on pure facts
Kareem played nearly 200 more games than lebron, so even if you go by games played lebron is still ahead
It's just stats... he's been going from team to team to win championships. MJ didnt do that. He won 6 playing for one team
it don't make no difference. they all championships. cuh you win them rings with other 14 dudes on the team and all this depends on the guys up in the front office
@@andrewkaweesi3712 stats are great but they don’t make you the goat alone
Thats why Mj Kareem and Bron are the goats.
You can pick whoever you like the most as the one.
I couldn’t agree more with Charles !!!
They both are great but it's high time to change the records to average, because rules have changed which support offence more these days and Shaq even if Lebron reaches 40K, that record will be broken, since we are drafting kids out of high school. Out of respect to those who paved the way ahead, it's time we changed the way we look at stat these days too along with rule changes
They have an average record too. Spoiler Jordan is 1, and Wilt is 2.
@@MrShanester117 correct and Lebron is number 5 on that list for career scoring average at 27.13 ppg while Kareem is 17th at 24.61. To the original comment, this record has stood for over 30 years and now you want to change it lol. Nah bruh. That record lasting at least another 25 years. No current player is on pace to pass Lebron
Lebron points record will take a long long tme to break. Will need someone who averages 25pg for 25 years whilst avoiding major injuries, good luck with that.
Then you get to the philosophical quote, "The flame that burns Twice as bright burns half as long." Wilt and MJ had shorter careers because of their dominance. Where as LeBron is only slightly under them in average yet he's sustaining it FAR LONGER.
Think about it like this, only counting seasons where they plated at least half of the games;
MJ had only 11/13 full seasons averaging 25+ ppg.
Wilt had 7/13 full seasons averaging 25+ ppg.
LeBron has had 18/19 seasons averaging 25+ppg. (LeBron's only season under 25ppg was his rookie year)
Sure, Wilt/MJ had more dominant offensive peaks. But LeBron has sustained his dominance far longer than they did.
As of 2022:
LeBron's career average: 27.1PPG (19 seasons)
MJ's career average: 30.1 (13 seasons)
Wilt's career average: 30.1 (13 seasons)
Kareem's career average: 24.6 (20 seasons)
Old man Jordan's last 2 seasons was averaging 21.2 PPG on the Wizards.
Old man Wilt's last 2 seasons was averaging 14 PPG on the Lakers.
Old man Kareem's last 2 seasons was averaging 12.4 PPG on the Lakers.
Old man LeBron's last 2 seasons so far has averaged 27.9 PPG on the Lakers.
Not to mention LeBron's going into his 20th season showing no signs of stopping, the new 2023 season just started and so far with only 1 game in LeBron averaging 31pts-8as-14reb. Last season LeBron also had a near career high 30PPG average in his 19th season.
LeBron is somehow defeating the undefeatable, father time.
@@Flyhr Very true, but the average possessions per game and pace of the game and rules of the games are more offence oriented now. The average team points per game has jumped huge during these times. So instead of comparing one generation to next, we should stop the comparison and appreciate all during their rules and generations.
Lebron is showing how athletes need to take care of their body for the next generation. Hence saying that record will be broken one day too. Not disrespecting anyone. Just appreciating everyone
People forgetting lebron literally created a super team to win his first 2 rings.....mj and Kareem stayed true to the grind and made their situations work for them....mj also never lost 2 games in a row
what exactly was mj suppose to "run away" from... drafted in '84 won a ring in '91 lebron was drafted in '03 gave everything he had to the cavs who didnt get a scotty pippen like player to help lebron and stayed til 2011. you work 8 years and never get a promotion while constantly doing the work of 2-3 people i bet youd leave too.
Kareem 6x Champion only 2x Finals MVP. He got carried by Magic pretty much his entire stint on the Lakers. LeBron and MJ have never been carried ever.
this so lame bruh. if you're playing for a franchise that literally were playing to lose, you sit and wait. ask KG
Kareem left Milwaukee and went to Los Angeles.
You do realize that Kareem had Oscar Robertson when he won his 1st ring and then forced a trade to LA. And then even tho LA had a great record they were able to get the #1 draft pick to get Magic. I'm sure if Cleveland gave young LeBron an all time great or was able to get the #1 draft pick even tho they won 60+ games that he would have at least 1 ring before Miami. And MJ struggled before Chicago management made changes and got Scottie and made Phil Jackson the head coach. Also the reason MJ retired after his 6th ring was because Chicago wasn't trying to pay to keep Scottie or Phil so MJ decided to retire. All this stuff is circumstantial and based on how good an organization does their job. BTW I personally have 1. MJ 2. Bron 3. Kareem but what you said just doesn't make sense to me
Bill Russell is the greatest of all time! R.I.P. to the lord of the rings 💍
I wasn’t born for bill but the way they leave him out like he don’t got 11 chips is wild 😂
Shaq, Lakers Nation here, one Love, Kobe R.I.P.
I cant understand a word Shaq grunts
Love how people bring up Stephs defense but never hold it against Magic or Bird lol. Not to mention Steph is a good team defender which is way more important than 1v1 defense
Magic and Bird weren't picked on like Steph was and still is to a point.
Neither were great defensively, but Bird made all-defensive teams. And Magic was sound defensively and versatile.
Sir that is because Magic and Bird played better defense lol especially Bird
@@ddavis8988 because they didn’t play in era where teams and players didn’t match up hunt the way they do now lol. That’s why.
Or there other shortcomings like Magic not being a good shooter or Bird being injury prone the second half of his career. Everybody has flaws.
Curry was never a good defender.
Lebron the greatest NBA story ever?! Not even close. He became what he was expected to become. Which is admirable.
But the greatest story of all time in the NBA is by far Giannis. He came from the streets of Athens. And nobody expected of him to become what he became..
Greatest story of all time is highly debatable and completely subjective but I agree this ain’t even close imo.
Lol it’s Bron but this is all subjective. It’s very few people you can point to that live up to what they were suppose to while exceeding that. Especially when you have pressure on your shoulders.
Chuck not realising that bron gonna break the record with less games and 4 years younger than Kareem
for someone that literally changed the game is played globally, i dont think kenny understands chucks question.
Steph curry is the greatest player of our generation. Kids these days are saying they wanna be like steph not lebron.
it's because them kids can't see themselves being freak athletes so they see Steph's stuff as the easy way
@@andrewkaweesi3712 nah it’s because they know who did it the hard way and inspired current generation of players.
@@muhammedadil240 lol LeBron is the greatest of his generation. LeBron > Curry
All curry has over LeBron is a better team like 2017-2018 with KD and GSW GM is much more competent than Cavs/Lakers GM
No Shaq. The perception that Lebron is a pass first guy is wrong. Career wise, he’s averaged more shots per game than Kobe, KD, Larry Bird, and Kareem. They’re all looked at as scorers or shooters, yet he’s shot more/game than all of them.
i think what shaq meant is, lebrons greatest attributeis his passing. His IQ. Knowledge of how the game works. Only to be seconded by his scoring
@@ammonquitalig9077 well I can’t guess what he meant, I can only correct what he actually said. And even if that’s true, passing isn’t his greatest attribute even then. It’s still scoring. You don’t become the all time leader in points, when that’s not your greatest strength.
Charles, if you go by games played, kareem still has 200 games more than LeBron 😂😂
Facts. These old heads need to understand how stats and numbers work
And he acts like coming into the NBA as a teenager is an advantage.
Kobe was great but look at his NBA stats as a teenager. LeBron is just special.
Yet less chip, less MVP, more bronze medal with team USA
@@zinjgreen3398 why are you talking about chips and MVPs? This discussion is about total points. Charles was wrong lol
@@greg2797 does it hurt Lebron's legacy? He also had the most regular saason double digit in scoring, playoffs not included because he scored 8 points in the Finals and 7 points against the Pacers😂
Come on chuck... 4:08
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar games 1,560 minutes 57446 Points 38387
LeBron James games 1,397 minutes 53252 points 37965
These guys love to bring up that Bron came out of high school. So did Kobe, Garnet, and others. Bron was that guy from day 1. That's not his fault the others took time to develop. Just give the guy his credit. It doesn't take away from the other guys greatness.
Kareem may have played longer, but Chuck is right - 4 yr head start AND LeBron shoots 3s. Take LeBron's 3 away, and he's in 7th place. Make those 3s 2s and he's more than 3K away from Kareem.
Not to mention College success. 3 NCAA titles is no joke. Who can say that they dominated like that at every level of play?
@UCtWmNy4M8cSrEiPfk91Iorg not punishing at all. Just saying that it's a tougher argument than just "LeBron is going to catch Kareem, so he must be better."
you can make stats fit any argument ...
@@leonhughes9014 absolutely - and, the question was "LeBron passes Kareem so is he better." my argument is, if you and I run a sprint, but I get a 4 second head start, it doesn't make me a better runner.
No one will ever be right about the greatest, but in my opinion, LeBron had an advantage.
@@islandvibes9076 well id say the level of player is better now across all the teams.. so the advantage therefore disappears . also if lebron took less 3 shots he would drive to basket more where his conversion is way highness.. so stats can be manipulated.. you also have to look at assists too... Lebron is better .. considerably