AoS 4.0 Factions & Combat News & 3.0 Lookback - Warhammer Weekly 04172024
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- Опубліковано 17 чер 2024
- Join us for another week of news, rumors and all things Warhammering! This week, we are breaking down our latest AoS 4.0 News and looking back on the game play of 3.0 - the good, the bad and the ugly.
#warhammer #ageofsigmar #newaos #aos
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0:00 News
17:40 Pick of the Week
27:45 Hobby Time
39:30 AoS 4.0 News
2:16:00 AoS 3.0 Lookback - Ігри
Sees Vince painting a Vampire/necromancer.... *Agressively refreshes Snarling Badger Studios Page*
Lol, I love it
I legitimately wondered if Tyler didn't catch the tease for the new game 😂.
@@SeverinBiedermanI think he just had the fear of giving away something - so was silent 😂
I think Tyler was very afraid of revealing something. :)
🤐
Drink every time Hades has some argument on a show
Please no, I don't want people to die. :)
1:58:36 Just a "side" note, the vast majority of fatalities in real world historical battles happened during a rout as the soldiers were desperately fleeing for their lives. I think D3 mortal damage is exceptionally generous.
While this is true, the Retreat move is not meant to model a full rout of 'soldiers desperately fleeing for their lives'. It's more a fighting retreat and regroup.
I think that's why the article mentions some armies have special abilities to reference such a fighting retreat. Most armies though? Are like the poster mentioned -- they are fleeing in a rout. @@toferkrz946
@@toferkrz946 that’s true but it still feels fine that you get wounded when you try to pull away from the enemy
@@toferkrz946 That's fair, but it would (and often did.) break ranks and signal the beginnings of a rout.
I understand they aren't going for full realism here. It's just a fact that retreating should be much more risky as a strategy.
while 3.0 had issues, such as unbalanced battle tactics and a wildly swingy quality in the GHBs, there is no denying that AoS3 is the most balanced edition we’ve ever had, maybe even including WHFB. I’ve only played since 7th and it’s definitely the most successful since then. Granted it’s not necessarily a super high bar, but worth mentioning anyway. It is also the first time we’ve had a contemporary battletome for every faction and player attendance numbers have exploded. In short, AoS3 can only be considered a success, but hopefully 4th will remedy the flaws and be even better - and so far it is looking really good!
As always thanks for a great show. Listening while painting my buff Hedonites and hoping Vince will approve 😅
Vince's idea to run retired sce is literally what gw said about marines , you use assault intercessor with jumppacks for vanguard veterans or assault marine models that where required
The problem being that many Stormcast units, especially Sacrosanct, do not have such obvious and fitting analogues. Sequitors can be Liberators, Sacrosanct heroes can be Knights Arcanum. That's about it.
@@toferkrz946 They literally all look exactly the same and are on the same base sizes though.
If you say so. You could also just play Kruleboyz as Adboyz, they're the same base and they're both orruks. Or Kairic Acolytes as Blood Reavers because they're both bare chested and Plaguebearers as Bloodletters because they're both demons. Heck why bother with the whole malarkey of miniatures representing the rich narrative of the fictional setting, why not play with bare 32mm bases with torn pieces of paper as terrain like Warmachine people.
I like to play my games a bit more thematic flavor than that personally, but you do you I guess. 'Just proxy them as whatever' is thoroughly reductive argument to me.
Tell us how you really feel @@toferkrz946
They have many fitting units.
Sequitors = Liberators
Evocators = Paladins/some kind of new elites/Praetors
Castigators = Raptors with with Hurricane Xbows
Dracolines = Palladors or Dracoth Guard.
4.0 rules feels very clean so far, much clearer sequencing and unified the multiple and imo redundant "activated abilities" that were dispersed seemingly randomly through the round and the rules sections in 3.0. Its clear when to use everything and where they live feels more natural and easier to remember, so far at least.
Vince you have a beautiful family
I read “family” as “army” and thought “isn’t that a different video series on this channel?”
@@hll705wait wtf, so did I, and only noticed when I saw you comment
I think we should remember that unicorn was also painted in citadel paint. And we all know how people feel GWs white paints.
I doubt that a GW supervisor will sit next to them to prevent them from using off brand colors
@nikjkeenan2866 According to Chris Peach, during his tenure at GW HQ they started enforcing a paint policy for both the army painting team and the 'eavy metal team. Mainly so when they list paints on the box, it wasn't considered false advertising.
It might be "how to paint an owl" but they seem to be using the citadel range to do in-house paint jobs, even if they're not telling you the thousand layers of glazing they're doing between coats.
I too was travelling and doomscrolling the 40k drama, despite regularly forgetting that custodes exist.
The only thing I love more than watching Warhammer Weekly is seeing Vince's amazing wife surfing into his office, riding on a wave of golden retrievers.
The mortal dudes with the stormcast are cool models (if a bit 40k) but thinking about them in universe is hilarious. When the Stormcast thunderstrike in - do they have to get a bus?
Given mortals sleep and eat more than Stormcast - do they have to pause marching just so Brian can get some sleep? or does the Lord carry him around on a baby carrier or something? "Sorry Guys, we can't chase down these cultists, Brian has to take a nap and have lunch"
Great stream!
Glad someone else noticed the red (snake)haired Melusai army in the pics. That immediately stood out to me too as a very unique color scheme that looked really good!
I wonder if it was some early Realm of Fire dioramas on account that’s our new realm focus(firey red-heads on the dry wastelands of Aqshy)
Thats the Zainthar Kai color scheme for the snakes. Its also in the current 3.0 book for Dok.
Sweet! I need to grab that tome.(it’s one of the few Order ones I haven’t nabbed yet 😅)
always a pleasure to hear you guys
The Battle Formations feel like we're swapping Subfactions for 2nd Edition Battalions.
Battle Formations are pretty much exactly what 3.0 subfactions were. (Not counting the few armies that strayed from the general formula, like Hedonites, Soulblight and Sons.)
Can't wait to see ya at CCC Tyler, hopefully we get the chance to play against each other this time! Bringing the Orks of Khorne I talked your ear off about last year lol.
Just found out we can potentially do a grudge match against you guys, had two of your team mates at our store event today at CollectorMania and they suggested we should just play round one, sounds like a blast to me!
came for aps news , got to see good boys and girls that were dogs
If at all possible, an official proxy list would sort out most people's issues. With the confirmation it doesn't matter that liberators have 2 weapons or a shield, this isn't too much more of a stretch.
My Wurrgog stared off Krondys at an RTT at the weekend. Did next to nothing the rest of the time. Love that swingy little guy.
Yeah, old Heroquest chaos warriors laid out the expectations of what a "chaos" solider is, and then Battlemasters cemented it by making them just that little bit cooler.
I'm glad there's no shooting in combat for most units. When I started playing AoS at the tail end of first edition I was shocked that getting into combat against shooting units did nothing.
+1 like for dogs and Lumineth rumour engine
Don’t you worry Tyler. I play a skaven player on a regular bases and he always rolls absurdly like that:
Warp lightning cannons getting their 2+ MWs, and he doesn’t roll a single 1 . This happening for two turns straight and I am tabled.
Making 15/19 5+ saves, thrice in a row.
It’s like playing the absurdest most overpowered army when he plays it (that’s why I hate skaven, it’s a feel bad army all around to me, everything has too little backfire)
In TOW he plays Khemri:
19 attacks on a 4+ and 4+. He wounds with 16! Next turn with 17.
It’s become so absurd. He also constantly kills single heroes with 5 skirmish Skeleton archers…
If he has killing blow HE ALWAYS rolls the 6 to wound.
I am just rolling my eyes at this point, the salt is real. At least he‘s having fun 😂
My plan: Next time he casually pulls of a 0.00001% chance I‘ll ask him to name six numbers between 1 and 49.
Wurrgog is the most fun part of bonesplitterz.
Melted a 10 plaguebearers, gotrek, 6 necropolis stalkers, a liege cavalos, and a warstomper over the weekend. Tried to stare at glottkin and immediately took 6 mortals and saved none. The rest of the bonesplitterz were there, sometimes.
Nice next Snarling Badger game tease with the "vampire for another game" comment.
I am not quite sold on the AoS 4 changes yet
AoS 3's rules were not quite as perfect as promised in their initial announcement videos, but they were very good
Some GHB's had unintended consequences
Overall, though, great edition
I really liked AoS 3, warts and all (although to be fair, they have been pretty quick for the most part to get the wart remover out)
Likely one that will be revisited and marked (like how other game systems have favored editions among the playerbase)
All this airbrush talk as I'm airbrushing my Gorger Mawpack. Love it
The Elisse Duchard model is incredible! I am so yaking one and making it the Pontifex of my City of Sigmar army.
Also Vince, indexhammer won't stop the "Creep" throughout the edition. We're seeing it in 40k where the early armies - space marines, nids, admech - are all having super bland, weak codices. The new, varied, strange abilities are coming in the later codices.
I don't think it's a case of early vs. late books. Even the Indexes . . indices . . even in those you could see some very bland designs and some very creative ones.
Not sure how GWs dev-teams are set up, but it VERY much gives the vibe that there are multiple teams/groups/individuals developing rules in parallel to each other and that some of these groups are much more willing to be experimental.
Case in point the current drop of the Custodes and Orc codex. Custodes rules are very by the book, stat-checky, simple (one might say boring) and Orcs are way more open and experimental in what they allow. Those two rules packages don't "feel" like they were developed with the same mindset or by the same people. 🤷
That is not at all how 10th edition codex releases is going. Its more like some are good and some are bad in a random matter. No creep though.
@@UnkaStunka SM: It has ironstorm. It has the index detachment. It has nothing special. It's all bland. Ironstorm is the best option and it's one nerf away from not existing. Black templars using ironstorm are sitting at a 65% winrate - if GW is worth their salt, which they aren't, ironstorm is going to die.
Tyranids: It's basically bland. It has your generic monster detachment and whatnot, but nothing genuinely interesting. The only thing keeping the faction alive is biovores; change the secondaries via a new GT book or their ability and they die.
Admech is layers upon layers of garbage.
Necrons: Canoptek court is cool, hypercrypt is just grey knights, destroyer legion was designed by people who don't play the game, obscifailure doesn't function because key characters lack the required keywords. With the hyper-bloated-OP c'tans for no reason.
Orkz: If you think there's no creep, oh boy, you're in for a surprise. 4+ fnp meganobs for 2 battlerounds. Dread mob. Regular ork boyz will be broken with their invulns. Just wait.
Tau: Mont'ka is coming to eat you alive. The rest are kinda meh, maybe bonded heroes will function.
Custodes: Abject failure of a codex where they're going to have to start again. $5 says the person who wrote admech wrote custodes and needs a new job. Was probably cruddy himself.
The last 3 books, two of them are going to define the meta. CSM are likely going to be broken, but we'll have to wait to confirm that.
@@DarkZergkill It's allegedly 3 people writing codices. And they write their own.
Nids -> admech -> custodes -> probably the same person. None of them function properly.
@@benstaffordson7163the main problem with comparing how SM fare is fact that divergent (BA, DA, BT, SW, DW) SMs can also use all non-unique codex SM units - by buffing codex ones, you also buff divergents. So, while codex SM should get buff, divergents (BT for sure, as they were eligible anyways, rest as case by case, possibly alongside rethinking their detachments to make them more commonly used) should at the same time get nerfed
I came into AoS on the tail end of 1st edition and went through 2nd edition, but only made it a few months into 3rd before I realized I wasn't having fun any more. What I've seen for 4th thus far is getting me excited to play again.
I’ve absolutely been loving X-men 97 glad to hear you’ve both enjoyed it as well!
Crazy good.
I fell in love with AOS in 2nd. Loved every part of it and had so much fun. 3rd killed the fun. How many pages were the core rules in 2.0 vs 3.0? ALOT. A huge percentage increase. GW prided themselves on AOS and how small the rule set was. They turned their back on us with 3.0. Please please get 4.0 back to the pride of why AOS was originally developed.
listened to this while painting some SCE. I'm overall hyped for 4.0 as i like a lot of the things they've previewed so far. With the wounds allocated to unit are we assuming the pick a model abilities (the pick up and squish giant ability) are removed or drastically changed as well? I think the biggest concerns right now are terrain rules and battle tactics.
You might already know it Vince, but the podcast Jay & Miles Xplain the Xmen is a fantastic reread that very much agrees with you on Claremont (they even have him on) and Xmen being a superpowered soap opera, it's a delight
I will have to look this up, but yes, I stand behind that 100% - Claremont gave us the X-Men, he actually made these characters what we love.
I could see one of the stormcast battle formations is blaze of glory, hopefully on 5’s like crematorium for OBR
I hate the exploding SCE mechanic on every level (ever since it was introduced in mini form via flasks in AoS 2)
It is weak mechanically and dumb thematically
I hope it is removed
I think there were rough patches at the start for sure. But the ‘Matt Rose Era’ certainly showed towards the end. I think 3.0 has been a success overall just. The community has grown so must be successful to a point!
Currently building Sekhar and that little biatch is the most finicky fiddly spindly and downright maddening model i think ive ever put together and ive been at this for many years now lmao.
Shooting, while rare in the current meta is still extremely strong. Any attempt to curtail that is a good thing, at the end of the day this is a game about melee combat. I'm really excited for all the changes.
Completely agree about battle formations being the biggest miss so far. They have the same type of restrictions we’ve seen before which encourages specific unit choices as opposed to promoting a particular play-style (which I was really hoping for, and seemed to be advertised). The rest of the changes look really positive though and overall I’m very excited for the new edition!
Also strong agree on the merits of skill being express through picking and lining up for appropriate unit matchups, as opposed to winning through movement and formation cheese. I want to play a war game not pass the pigs.
Battle formations as a concept / formula are good and I am glad that they kept the 3.0 subfaction style. They just need to be careful what the actual abilities are. Yes, the two that were shown don't look great, but they are just two out of over ninety. We need to see more before we can say that they missed the mark.
@@starslayer2438 I was mostly referring to them being the biggest miss so far in terms of the reveals. Of course we will have to see more before we can make a definitive judgement (probably should have added “from what we’ve seen” at the beginning of my comment). Hopefully it’s a case of a more in depth system being poorly represented, but I was underwhelmed by what they revealed, especially when compared to everything else that’s been shown so far.
Sorry, I read your comment as if you were talking about the system / abstract structure of the battle formations / 3.0 subfactions. Which I think is a pretty good system. If you meant the two specific ones that were shown in the article, then yes, those were a bit disappointing.
@@starslayer2438 All good mate. Maybe I wasn’t very clear. I really like sub-factions/ battle formations as a concept, I just hope that 4.0 does them justice. Overall though the new systems are looking very sharp 👌
Great show thank you!
On the review of 3.0, could it be said that it brought more players to the table? Yes, there were confused concepts but perhaps it was luck on AoS behalf that 9th edition 40k was so complex that for many players (myself included) 3.0 felt like a breath of fresh air! 😂
Yey Tyler has to paint!
Definitely need some Larry the Ogre merch! I'm very biased though
The ecosystem around shooting seems to encourage a single shooting unit that you have to shield and move up the board to make best use of. Definitely better than other ecosystems which sequestered shooting or encouraged spamming it.
I would love to see War machines have a lot of range, and bow/crossbow/gun units being shorter range. War machines, especially artillery ones are supposed to shoot from afar, it's wild that a guy with bow shoots farther than a cannon. 😅
Oh I’m like you, Vince. I have no interested in AoS (3) anymore, because I’m SO HYPED for AoS (4)! 😄 I have a game scheduled for Saturday, but it might just be my last.
I love the Reclusian models. I ordered some miniature chains, I want to try to add some to Vindictors and mimic the style of the Reclusian. Let’s see how it goes.
For 4.0: Each new warscroll that I see makes me more excited. Those are very clean and clever designs. Plus a couple of clear quality of life changes in the core rules. I am also very happy that they kept 3.0-style "subfactions" that players can choose from. Just avoid the spammy ones, please!
For 3.0: It really was dragged down by a few dominent problems. GHB rules were mostly bad. Army-specific battle tactics were a giant mistake, but I also soured on the universal ones over time. And while I really liked the concept of the core battalions, they completely ruined a good system by missing the appropriate balance by a mile.
I had issues with some of the previous changes, but the combat changes look really good, I only have minor nitpicks.
-Save stacking: supposed reduced rend + certain armies getting access to save stacking could create more one sided matchups. The conflicting priorities of the game being deadly, and some armies narratives pushing them as unkillable can't really coexist.
-Retreat mortals: I'm not sure we needed this? It just feels like another rule we'll forget about.
-That ardboy rule seems bad, while that snake rule seems incredibly powerful. hopefully not a trend.
I think the save stacking isn't really an issue as long as its limited to armies like stormcast where being very durable is the way they get around the low model count, they certainly don't have the wounds to sponge up a lot of damage like say nurgle does. I don't have a strong opinion about the retreat mortals beyond that there probably should be some cost to retreating. As for the ardboys vs snake ladies without seeing the rest of the warscrolls and the points cost its hard to really say how much better one is then the other. The main thing I'm concerned about is how the command point changes coupled with the shooting nerfs is going to leave ko, I don't personally play them but one of my regular opponents does and it seems like a tremendous nerf to their current playstyle which admittedly can be pretty unfun to play against if you don't have a strong way to counter it or are a generally slow army but its not like they're currently blowing everyone off the table.
Am I trippin or are there UA-cam adds on the show now!?
I'm getting an ad every 5-6 minutes. I love the show but it's a bit much
I fixed this, I am very sorry, UA-cam just decides to insert insane ads sometimes and then I have to go clean them out. My apologies for that.
Oh no Tyler like the new scheme, I hope this isn't a planning reset
I can’t stop commenting 😊 but the dawnrider comparison is correct 1:20:05 - but that was when they were one if the few units who had that set up. Everyone else was just more deadly. Hopefully if everyone has a role based on the enemy- it might be balanced
Another highly enjoyable show…and you dropped an Adam Sandler “goat” reference…we are definitely in the same demographic my man…too funny😅
What annoys me about the battle formations is that they claimed they were different to move away from sub factions (which had nice lore) to be pretty similar rules 🤷♂️
Watched your vids for a while, but the dog got me to subscribe.
Awesome, glad to have you along on the dog filled hobby journey!
I'm 70/30 positive on AOS3. Its been an edition of great ideas but bad executions. All the things you mentioned Vince I look at an go, man one or two more iteration passes and this would be fire. Or just not cowarding out like the first 2 GHB's on Monsters/Infantry being a big thing but then getting scared and making them feed VP. Having said that, I'd never want to step back to AOS2 after 3rd. Its so much better.
AOS4 so far is looking like that iteration. So excited.
I prefer AoS 3 to the prior editions as well
To be honest, a lot of critiques and "proposed fixes" throughout 3rd in my opinion have been from people who just want to play AoS 2
AoS 4 is not quite an iteration on 3 so much as a reenvision
Will see where it goes
Happy to say Vince (PleasentKenobi) has been loving playing Khorne in AoS, he’s certainly familiar with the game, though not as invested as he is in 40K
Piling in if your unit is not in combat - is this just any unit or only units that had charged? I don't recall it specifying
Only units that have charged, everone isn't suddenly moving 3" :)
Kroxigors have gone from 4 to 5 to 6 wounds in around a year.
The Krox Kreep is real, yo…
Played Light and Shadow yesterday. Great fun thanks Tyler!
Awesome to hear! That should’ve been a highlight of 3.0, right - we fixed Relocation Orb. :)
Lyra is grooming Vince, she loves him dearly and is expressing that through her little grooming bites. Very cute!
My money is on shooting ranges generally going down ad a way to make artillery actually have a role (long range)
Will they drop mortal wounds and save stacking just to baseline the experience, or are they simply resetting the arms race and will crank it again? Time will tell i suppose
rumour engine : genestealer cult (the little dent + jewel at the bottom and the chitin like stuff at the center make me think a lot about that). I lost my mojo for AOS, I do not know why, it just fadded away... still like painting my Soulbights though
Liked for the Wurrgog prophet
"a different game" snarling badger's vampirate game confirmed
I don't actually play AoS so I'm a bit out of the loop, but by the end of the edition should we not have updated they minor version number by now?
I just count it all as 3.0. :)
34:27 Badger-related? 🤔
Feels like it right??? Proactive necromancer robotic squirrels confirmed
3rd Edition at least gave us reaction abilities. That alone bumps it up for me.
Vinces Wife and dogs fit the news! Stole the show!
that krox warscroll is such a better design. just pure timmy goodness.
The most important question we need to have answered...are Snake Ladies Infantry or Cavalry?
Beasts
I see doggos , I smash that like button like a button party its banging
1:30:00 Wasn't save stacking largely a problem because of units that already had a good save? Who cares if some unit with a 5+ save boosts it to a 4+ with one point of rend protection? The problem happens when you have Chaos Warriors of Nurgle (for example) which now have a 2+ save that ignores the first 2 points of rend. A reduced ability to save stack would be nice, but I don't think armies that 'are supposed to have good armour' should be able to save stack still. They are the problem. They are why the rules need to change.
Yes and. The challenge with save stacking was especially when you have 3+ people who can layer at least +2 regularly across more than one unit. To a lesser degree this existed with 4+ as well, depending on the wound count. It was then especially worse when you had mortal wound protection on top. SCE was never really the issue, as they were always pretty killable through MWs.
A teaser!
I'm with you, Vince. The moment rules for 4.0 were shown, I immediately lost all interest in playing 3rd edition at all. I'll be playing 40k in the meantime lol.
I think Matt Rose video game dev experience is showing alot here. So many common sense and quality of life changes. Decreasing ludonarrative dissonance while still building gameplay centeic experience.
I’ve only had time to play in 1 event in 3rd (2nd in May, I’ll see ya at CCC, Tyler!) and honestly, I’m soo glad I didn’t invest more into this game. It’s been awful anytime I play it due to battle tactics and all the other bloat
30:31 people dispair about the prophet, but that’s why I really don’t like things like Merciless Blizzard; when any little character can just nuke things off the board. The double turn against skaven is my biggest fear at the moment, every time I play them I get doubled and double nuked by blizzard!
👍👍
1:32:00 Yes, but tree people are basically solid wood. Humans wearing steel armour have a very thin layer of steel and then soft yielding flesh. The average hardness of a human in armour vs a solid oak, I'd put my money on the tree. Hit a tree once with an axe. One good solid blow. The tree is probably fine. Now hit a human with that same solid axe blow. Let's say on a steel helmeted head...
Oh sure, that is why the tree has more wounds. :) - It's a question of ease of damage, of landing the blow, not killing the thing.
Comment for the dog
Eve though nothing is "real"; it makes sense that a unit that was retreating would lose s9me bodies to getting shot/stabbed in the back as they turn to run
Using pile in as skill expression always felt bad for me cause it looked awful and punished me for liking physical models in the first place. Melee rightfully should be imagined as kind of a chaotic mess and weird tagging or just leaving goes against that
Lack of save stacking literally saved my interest in this edition
I hit the like button and I swear I got a inch taller
Regarding to shooting it will be importanto to see if you can retreat and shoot in the same turn. If you can, D3 mortal damage is the tax to be able to shoot.
Unless the retreat and shoot rule also lets them avoid the mortal damage
A distinct possibility if they want to allow a unit to do such hit and run tactics
Also 3rd is pretty much dead to me atm. I have a small 2v2 narrative event at the local gaming club and those will probly be my last games of aos
"Never going to yuck someone else's yum" unless they're lumineth players, then they deserve all the hate. Stupid high-elves-but-worse.
And yes, the custode drama was just insane. Everybody I talked to within the hobby didn't care, it was mostly just *that* sort of person who did. Of course, if sigmar gets more popular, *that guy* will move over to you as well.
he also yucks peoples yum All the Time, and cheers when other people are upset because the changes are in his favor
Got 2 sets of ads in the first 6 minutes, i know you dont try putting this many in something weird is going on with UA-cam!
Edit: yep its about an ad every 5 mins
It's nonsense UA-cam sometimes does, It has been fixed, I have no idea why UA-cam suddenly inserts ads and thinks every 5 minutes is appropriate, drives me insane.
It is nuts! Enjoying the show anyway! @@VinceVenturella
Before i watch this, I have two primary predictions: 1) Vince will downplay the worry people have about further squatting and removal of models, and try to be positive in spite of the wider community turmoil. And 2) Will act like the severe simplification of the new warscrolls is what everyone wanted, because he personally enjoys very very simple games and always cheers when options and customization is ripped out of a game.
on the topic of stormcast proxying and how GW should make them: You are argueing against fans of the army and telling them that Complexity is dead, and they should be happy to lose most of their variance because "Games work like this". nevermind that what you say doesn't work doesn't even line up, because the game worked like that for decades and decades. You, Personally, just hate options
I didn't really discuss the removal of models. I covered it last week in detail and I think I gave it a very fair examination. I certainly didn't go easy on GW for their choices and stand behind everything I said. As to the second point, yes, I like the new warscrolls and the interaction. I think there is still plenty of room for emergent complexity. I certainly favor simplicity at the foundational level and believe it is better for AoS as a whole. I know you believe you have me completely figured out, but I am not set toward simplification in all cases. It's about what is appropriate for the game and the audience. This is meant to be a market leading game with a wide audience of all ages and supporting casual to competitive play. When building a game like that, broad market success is generally built on having a simple premise and primary loop that can then build into high complexity through the addition of rules layers (which is very much where this edition is going). One of my favorite games of all time is Battletech, which I have played since the early 90s, it is very much NOT a simple game, it's complexity in 10 cities, but it is also both a) trying to simulate something very specific and b) targeting a different audience. It's about the correct design for the correct game.
24:43 my only disappointment with the 40k change is how they did it. Like come on put some effort into a change that big. Make the story cool and the community would have embraced it.
I dunno if that's really true, there's still a large faction of people online who see a woman or a person of colour in their nerd thing and freak the fuck out
I haven't read the book yet, so I don't know. Sometimes, a retcon is just the simplest way forward. Sometimes, when you have to narrativel explain your change its good (original crisis on infinite earths in DC in the 80s) and often its bad (every other crisis in DC comics from that one forward). ;)
Refering to the axing of SCE units, you make probably the most important point of all of this and thats proxying units. I really think people had some wild knee jerk reactions. Not saying some of it wasnt warranted due to GW's poor communication. I just think people went immediately to doom and gloom like they were removing those units the very day that article came out. Many should be accustomed to GW's backwards thinking and poor management. We just had to sit back and wait to see what all would make it to this upcoming edition. Same thing happend for 8th-10th 40k with space marines. Old models could still be used for the new units in casual play, nobody had a problem with someone running a tact sqaud as an intercessor squad, or using squaty captains and Lt. as the new refreshed versions. The same thing is happening to SCE where people can use whatever they want as long as its known before the game or is the old version of said new unit. So far I think they are handling the new SCE very well as expected for refreshed models. Im looking forward to seeing whats next assuming next week will be Skaven
Please provide a mechanically and thematically fitting replacement in the Stormcast range that is staying for a ballista war machine, an entire unit of lightning wizards in comparatively light armor, an entire unit of lightning wizards on fast and nimble beasts or a wizard on a large winged monster.
That's the difference between the Space Marines cull and the Stormcast cull. No reasonable, well-adjusted adult is really peeved that their jump pack guys are now played with the rules of the other jump pack guys, or the bikes are now played as the other bikes. They're functionally and thematically the same. People are peeved because the Sacrosanct have no real analogues in terms of playstyle and theme/aesthetics. There is no other unit of lightning wizards I can field my Evocators as, there is no other war machine, there is no other monster-mounted wizard. This isn't like saying you can use Assault Marines as Assault Intercessors. This is like saying you can proxy Assault Marines with jump packs as Hellblasters with plasma rifles. Can you? I guess you can, they're the same base size. Does it make sense and fit in terms of theme and mechanical readability? Not really, no.
its an awful arguement, that falls apart when you acknowledge that the units arent Just stormcast in robes
@@toferkrz946 Ill hold my opinions until all of the new stormcast models are revealed. What kind of arguement are you making?? lol. Thats my entire point of my comment was people are bitching about what to run units as and havent even seen the new SCE range for 4th edition. Please go touch grass and have a little patiences. Once agian as my comment points out, the units arent goin away immediately which translates to calm tf down and wait to see what happens. I dont understand the whiny and cry baby attitudes part of this community has about a company they fully know but forgets has stupid ways of doing things that wind up working themselves out in the end
@@autumnlotus6250 there all in gold suits of armor are they not?? Almost the entire range for stormcast looks the same but with a few fancy trinkets and weapons, all which are very easily kitbashes. You just have an awful take. Either work around the issue or stop playing Warhammer and quit the bitching. Mfers havent even seen the new SCE range for 4th edition and wonder why people ignore you types of people who get so emotional when something isnt going your way
@@foreverfornever1124 ill speak my mind however I please, so kindly fuck off
The amout of people that say skill expression is going down when they haven't seen the rest of the rules yet is... well, I don't agree.
Like, just because some stuff is getting streamlined doesn't mean there's a lower skill ceiling. I hated being mired by rules, which is the best way I can put it. I understand some people like "the crunch" more, but tightening is almost always welcome, imo. Let's see what the rest has to hold, let's play it first.
it means exactly that, if the rules previewed are consistant to the overall playstyle. the warscrolls are Gutted of rules, to the point that they look like enemy stat sheets from a board game
I can respect that. I'm not coming from a history of war games, so I perhaps am not used to how everyone else likes the game niche it fills.
I will say I'm happy Vince talked about the "drag" on 3rd edition, like a parachute pulling the whole thing back, which is more what I'm saying. At roughly the 2:30:00 mark.
Still, less rules doesn't correlate to less skill needed, look at GO for heaven's sake. Less rules is just less reading. Beyond that, well, we'll need to see, as Tyler mentioned. Maybe it will become a solved edition early on, but I doubt it.
I predict people just continue spamming heavy cav and monsters because infantry basically sucks by their design.
TIme will tell I guess. :)
It is so funny to me that the Rogal Dorne Battle Tank was introduced over a year ago and GW went "yea, that's been around for 10,000+ years" and other than a little snickering and eye-rolling from some people no one really had much to say about it. Then GW goes "yup, women Custodes have always been there" and the community explodes. It just goes to show that the furor has little to do with lore or continuity changes breaking immersion and everything to do with the Pavlovian hyper-conditioning everyone has gone through in today's culture-war driven, clickbait media-sphere.
I contest that 3.0 wasnt a failure. The core rules of 3.0 may have been a drag but the edition brought some of the most novel army core rules design the game has ever seen practically rewriting the core identities of multiple armies to truly match their core and lore ideas like nurgle, beasts of chaos, and slaves to darkness.
i agree 3.0 is a failure, it simply added and changed things that didn't need to exist, why did we get hero and monster actions when we already had both simply written on the warscrolls as abilities? Why was mystic shield restored back to +1 save when it was removed from that in AOS2 for being overpowered, why insist on forcing us to stick with i go you go turn based system then flood us with irritating interruptions and gotchas during the other players go instead of going full Alternating - i simply don't get it.
I survived this edition because i stuck with AOS2 rules using AOS3 books....It was fun enough but i'm very eager for 4.0..... it feels like its going back to the fun that was AOS2.
The 40K news in a nutshell: A 40K Faction Caught Up With Their Stormcast Counterparts*
*for the pedants among us: yes yes I know Custodes are not the same as Astartes anyway