@diamonddust22 You rock! I'm reading the discussion here and I LOVE a Prince fan that actually questions his direction and artistic decisions (although we can't do anything about them) rather than just accepting every crappy thing he does not only in music but to his fans. Call them Purple Sheep, I like to call them Yes-Fams. Wendy & Lisa opened up Prince's musical horizons. He would of been stuck in 1999 style, but not only them, Eric & Alan Leeds exposed him to Jazz, Susannah to arts...
@diamonddust22 One hear later - he had to let them go to regain his name in top billing. In other words, Prince was getting slightly overshadowed by W+L. I mean, they were in many ways responsible for Around The World, Parade's radical and fantastic direction, and much of the Dream Factory and great songs on SOTT. Prince needed be "Prince" only again on his albums is what I'm saying. Prince was also changing his image - he then had Cat and Sheila for another visual/musical purpose.
@diamonddust22 With ANY artist, band or whatever, if you don't happen to like between 70 and 100% of their music, you can't really call yourself a BIG fan and that does not mean you cannot be questioning or critical over their artistic movements. There will always be room for that. If you don't 'get off' on his other stuff, so be it. Be sure, others are perhaps having a better time of it. As productive as he is, there is enough good/bad stuff to go around.
This song is a trip if you really listen to the album version and rock (or Funking out!) out to it! The chorus is just insane! As you can see by the ending in this performance, its just manic! Try singing along...!
@njin I'll enjoy it anyway, and I stand by everyword. Prince went downhill when Wendy and Lisa left his group. I enjoy Prince, and I enjoy Wend & Lisa, but facts are facts and I don't need to be told by you what to say and how to think, cause everyone knows it, and it needs to be said.
@candelise Prince is a good songwriter, and he is a master at music theory and the technical aspects of music, but without a driving force like Wendy and Lisa and his old passions, he's lost.
Let's enjoy this piece instead talking about how it was wrong for Prince to make a choice of his own. Let Lisa & Wendy make their own beautiful music, and Prince the same. And let us enjoy it. If they find time to make music togheter again, be happy for that.
@diamonddust22 I agree with your statement after he left WB, he was all over the place and in order to sell albums in indie-mode, he had to 'give-in' to appealing to the mass R&B audiences by catering to them. If you really take a listen to the SOTT album and that period between 1999 and Lovesexy, even Batman, man, Prince was on fire. The Camille album would of been incredible if you read the original track list, or many of the unreleased tracks of the period, amazing stuff.
@wendileona Thank you so much. I mean part of being a fan is caring. If I didn't care, I wouldn't be saying what I do. Prince with Wendy and Lisa was the best.
@diamonddust22 There are many Prince songs you do not hear on radio that SHOULD be played. That is a whole universe unto itself. If you enjoy most of his stuff, that simply means you have a wide appreciation. Wider than those with less, with room still, to see what does and does not work for you.
@njin ...time, his change of band also enriched his creativity and forced his sound in new directions, which probably was needed for him to do other stuff that he felt like doing. I have many favourites among 90s songs, and songs coming after the year 2000. Yes, I agree that his best time was in his revolution period. But how can we prove that it was because of The Revolution that he had success at this period of time? We can't, and is therefore a naive conclucion to saying made him succeed
@diamonddust22 you might be right, I dunno. But some of my favourite albums of all time were more or less solo efforts. Sign of The TImes, Dirty Mind, Prince etc... allthough my favourites might be Around The World In A Day and Parade which were heavily influenced by the help he got from The Revolution. And I also know that he messed a little with Lisa from earlier on. Maybe one of their greater qualities with Prince was the quality filter?
@njin I know for a fact that I myself need a change sometimes to get new inspiration. If it's for the good or for the worse, it's still needed for me to get out of the fishbowl.
@diamonddust22 I'm so glad Prince doesn't care what annoying fans say he should do, and just does what suits him best. And that is doing whatever he wants to whenever he wants to do it. That's why his music is so diverse and ahead of time. He has allways had fans complaing about his new directions. Changing from the revolution to npg was never a bad choice. It was just a new era. The revolution was perfect, and yeah they could probably make alot of new classics still. But at the same ....
@njin good thing about the music after is that even though he maybe he went downhill overall, he still made classic songs every now and then that we wouldnt get if it wasnt for his change. Maybe we would have got twice as much of other classics, but lets say it was destiny, it was destined to happen. And if a narsisist as you say he is was forced to stay in the paste, his frustration would maybe lead to worse music. Thing is, we can't know what would happen. We can only imagine. Thats TRUTH!
@diamonddust22 true enough. It went overall downhill both qualitywise and comercially imo. But it could still go downhill with or without them. How can we know for sure that it wouldn't? It's like saying OutKast would have been bigger now if they would have stayed a duo all the time. We can only assume, but there's always reasons for a change. And even though we can't prove in any way that it is for the better or for the worse, we do know that it made a difference.
@diamonddust22 well not really cause sign of the times was a huge hit, its sold more that wendy and lisa all together. diamonds and pearls did very well and the symbol album is the envy of almost anyone who has reviewed it. not to mention the gold experience
@diamonddust22 Wendy and Lisa; a good sounding board for Prince. Willing and able to tell him if something clicked or not. They came up with things he did not and vice versa. Not everything he recorded sparkled with or without those two. I, for example, loved 'The Rainbow Children' and much of his last 3CD mouthful and he did not sound too 'lost' to me. Wendy and Lisa were a flavour to his music that is not there anymore.
@paul3fun Thats a great observation! Although I hate Grunge. I'll take this LA-Jazz-Funk-Rock any day over that crap. But not only did they have a cool hippie funk style for this album, but they also were ahead of their time before all that 90's Lilith Fair junk with this and their next Eroica album which is even better!
@candelise says who? You? I am a big fan of his for sure, but along with being a fan, I am allowed to say what I feel. Even on some of the CD's he has out that I didn't quite feel fond of, I liked some of the songs. One of my favorite songs that you don't hear anywhere is, "I Wonder You." That is such an awesome, yet you don't hear it anywhere.
@diamonddust22 There is always much to question about Prince. That is one of the things that make him interesting. However, I think that he has done good/bad stuff with and without Wendy and Lisa. End of.
@njin Revolution NPG was when he went down hill. The only time Prince was great was with Wendy and Lisa. Prince is still amazing, but he has lost touch with his songwriting abilities, and has never recovered since. He will always have the talent, but this stuff he's doing now just doesn't cut it from what I know Prince is capable of. I am not only a fan, but I have been a musician for 25 years.
@candelise say what you like. Prince with Wendy and Lisa was the best ever. I hate to say it, and don't get me wrong cause I am a huge fan of Prince and always will be, but Prince is a narcissist, and with narcissists thier is no cure. Prince getting rid of Wendy and Lisa was his way of saying, nobody owns me, and that is what narcissists do, they sabotage things so they are alone.
@diamonddust22 Putting words in others' mouths is not too helpfull in this discussion. Yes we do have all the releases and much not officially released. We did get into him about the time of the first album, but that is neither here nor there. Unless Prince told you of his artistic intentions you can, like me, only speculate. However, I guess I do not need to tell this to an authority such as your good self!
@Cosmictalk Sure, Prince was the shit back in '89, but now? These ladies were THE best of his associates next to Sheila whom actually, without Prince couldn't get a decent real album together after him anyways... not a cool thing to say.
@purplexxe8 Yeah Prince should get over himself and get back together with the partners that made him as big as he is. Wendy and Lisa were a huge part of Prince's success.
@diamonddust22 A little suspicious when people say they are fans of Prince but have complaints about him since the Wendy and Lisa departure. A LOT of material that has gone by since then. Still a fan? A narcissist? Of course! That was on his form book since day one! Can Prince not do great material WITHOUT Wendy and Lisa? EVER? The mix was great, though I think Prince felt that he was hearing a direction other than before or he felt that he was being over reliant on the twosome.
@candelise You see you approach Prince as though you are some sort of authority on Prince, when in actually fact I had Prince's first album when it came out. I know what Prince is capable of and so does his real fans. The only thing Prince did after Wendy and Lisa that really stood out, was the Love Symbol CD, with 3 Chains of Gold on it, and Sexy M.F. A lot of his post W&L was over polished schmaltz written for up and coming females he wanted to push.
@candelise I'm not speculating nothing. My opinion was that he was better with Wendy and Lisa, and in his early album, and in the Love Symbol CD. The rest of it was just fast food nonsense thrown together cause he had left over songs, and that is exactly what it feels like. Also, his early Cd's were recorded in analog. His later stuff is way too over polished. I mean the Purple Rain soundtrack and the Controversy album, or 1999, is far better and beyond Emancipation, and it shows.
@candelise Don't get me wrong, everyone knows Prince is an amazing musician, but he's lost touch with who he is. This new direction he took, doesn't really jive at all. Wendy and Lisa was the perfect Prince group
@candelise His later stuff seems, and feels like leftovers. NPG is just Prince trying to create a brand name for himself. I am sure that if I sat down with Prince I would tell him the same thing to his face. Why? Because I care about him and I am not a yes-man.
@njin not really. Prince went down hill when he changed. Everyone including Prince knows that. You see I appreciate and respect Prince's musicianship, but I don't worship him like he's god and we are his disciples. Prince is just a great artist that is very talented. Revolution was Prince's best, after that he struck out really with that other avenue he went down. He is a top musician, and an amazing artist, but he became very self indulgent, and you can hear it.
To paraphrase Colin Powell about Obama's supposed Muslim faith "what if they were?" :) Anyway, no, W&L weren't a couple. Prince played up the whole gender bending thing in his band. W&L've known each other since they were little kids. Wendy's been married to her longtime partner for several years and Lisa dated Matt Fink back in the day.
@kahuna3901 The only one worth mentioning is the symbol CD. Diamonds and Pearls wasn't good. Sign of the times was ok, not that memorable, and the Gold experience was just ok. I stopped listening after he started getting into that crappy modern music that you see today with all the whining R&B. Today's R&B has nothing to do with Rhythm or Blues, it's bullshit.
Every Protege pales in Comparison, Energy,Performance, Talent.
@diamonddust22 You rock! I'm reading the discussion here and I LOVE a Prince fan that actually questions his direction and artistic decisions (although we can't do anything about them) rather than just accepting every crappy thing he does not only in music but to his fans.
Call them Purple Sheep, I like to call them Yes-Fams.
Wendy & Lisa opened up Prince's musical horizons. He would of been stuck in 1999 style, but not only them, Eric & Alan Leeds exposed him to Jazz, Susannah to arts...
Prince's worst and biggest mistake was parting ways with Wendy and Lisa.
@diamonddust22 One hear later - he had to let them go to regain his name in top billing. In other words, Prince was getting slightly overshadowed by W+L. I mean, they were in many ways responsible for Around The World, Parade's radical and fantastic direction, and much of the Dream Factory and great songs on SOTT.
Prince needed be "Prince" only again on his albums is what I'm saying. Prince was also changing his image - he then had Cat and Sheila for another visual/musical purpose.
OMG!!! Thank you sooo much. W & L are awesome people and players. Thanks again.
Lisa And Wendy and US...rock and roll....and all that
Damn I feel old..when i saw this..i instantly remember my fav rockers..so sexy and cool,i love love love these girls..Good God!
@diamonddust22 With ANY artist, band or whatever, if you don't happen to like between 70 and 100% of their music, you can't really call yourself a BIG fan and that does not mean you cannot be questioning or critical over their artistic movements. There will always be room for that. If you don't 'get off' on his other stuff, so be it. Be sure, others are perhaps having a better time of it. As productive as he is, there is enough good/bad stuff to go around.
great song. Wendy's got some fire in it.
wendy, girl, woman...thanks
Wendy was so fine
This song is a trip if you really listen to the album version and rock (or Funking out!) out to it! The chorus is just insane! As you can see by the ending in this performance, its just manic! Try singing along...!
@njin I'll enjoy it anyway, and I stand by everyword. Prince went downhill when Wendy and Lisa left his group. I enjoy Prince, and I enjoy Wend & Lisa, but facts are facts and I don't need to be told by you what to say and how to think, cause everyone knows it, and it needs to be said.
Love W&L!!!!!!
still love u renata........will
@candelise Prince is a good songwriter, and he is a master at music theory and the technical aspects of music, but without a driving force like Wendy and Lisa and his old passions, he's lost.
Let's enjoy this piece instead talking about how it was wrong for Prince to make a choice of his own. Let Lisa & Wendy make their own beautiful music, and Prince the same. And let us enjoy it. If they find time to make music togheter again, be happy for that.
@diamonddust22 I agree with your statement after he left WB, he was all over the place and in order to sell albums in indie-mode, he had to 'give-in' to appealing to the mass R&B audiences by catering to them.
If you really take a listen to the SOTT album and that period between 1999 and Lovesexy, even Batman, man, Prince was on fire. The Camille album would of been incredible if you read the original track list, or many of the unreleased tracks of the period, amazing stuff.
@wendileona Thank you so much. I mean part of being a fan is caring. If I didn't care, I wouldn't be saying what I do. Prince with Wendy and Lisa was the best.
@diamonddust22 There are many Prince songs you do not hear on radio that SHOULD be played. That is a whole universe unto itself. If you enjoy most of his stuff, that simply means you have a wide appreciation. Wider than those with less, with room still, to see what does and does not work for you.
I wish Prince plays this one in concert
@njin
...time, his change of band also enriched his creativity and forced his sound in new directions, which probably was needed for him to do other stuff that he felt like doing. I have many favourites among 90s songs, and songs coming after the year 2000. Yes, I agree that his best time was in his revolution period. But how can we prove that it was because of The Revolution that he had success at this period of time? We can't, and is therefore a naive conclucion to saying made him succeed
wow
18yrsagoand
@diamonddust22 you might be right, I dunno. But some of my favourite albums of all time were more or less solo efforts. Sign of The TImes, Dirty Mind, Prince etc... allthough my favourites might be Around The World In A Day and Parade which were heavily influenced by the help he got from The Revolution. And I also know that he messed a little with Lisa from earlier on. Maybe one of their greater qualities with Prince was the quality filter?
@njin I know for a fact that I myself need a change sometimes to get new inspiration. If it's for the good or for the worse, it's still needed for me to get out of the fishbowl.
@Jakewst Hell yeah! LOL
@diamonddust22 I'm so glad Prince doesn't care what annoying fans say he should do, and just does what suits him best. And that is doing whatever he wants to whenever he wants to do it. That's why his music is so diverse and ahead of time. He has allways had fans complaing about his new directions. Changing from the revolution to npg was never a bad choice. It was just a new era. The revolution was perfect, and yeah they could probably make alot of new classics still. But at the same ....
@njin good thing about the music after is that even though he maybe he went downhill overall, he still made classic songs every now and then that we wouldnt get if it wasnt for his change. Maybe we would have got twice as much of other classics, but lets say it was destiny, it was destined to happen. And if a narsisist as you say he is was forced to stay in the paste, his frustration would maybe lead to worse music. Thing is, we can't know what would happen. We can only imagine. Thats TRUTH!
@diamonddust22
true enough. It went overall downhill both qualitywise and comercially imo. But it could still go downhill with or without them. How can we know for sure that it wouldn't? It's like saying OutKast would have been bigger now if they would have stayed a duo all the time. We can only assume, but there's always reasons for a change. And even though we can't prove in any way that it is for the better or for the worse, we do know that it made a difference.
two foxes. damn i remember havin childhood crushes on a lot of women Prince was around,,,just bad ass cool and talented
@candelise Great response, take good care.
@diamonddust22 well not really cause sign of the times was a huge hit, its sold more that wendy and lisa all together. diamonds and pearls did very well and the symbol album is the envy of almost anyone who has reviewed it. not to mention the gold experience
@diamonddust22 Wendy and Lisa; a good sounding board for Prince. Willing and able to tell him if something clicked or not. They came up with things he did not and vice versa. Not everything he recorded sparkled with or without those two. I, for example, loved 'The Rainbow Children' and much of his last 3CD mouthful and he did not sound too 'lost' to me. Wendy and Lisa were a flavour to his music that is not there anymore.
@paul3fun Thats a great observation! Although I hate Grunge. I'll take this LA-Jazz-Funk-Rock any day over that crap.
But not only did they have a cool hippie funk style for this album, but they also were ahead of their time before all that 90's Lilith Fair junk with this and their next Eroica album which is even better!
The bottomline: What if they were? Waterfall would still sound the same.
@candelise says who? You? I am a big fan of his for sure, but along with being a fan, I am allowed to say what I feel. Even on some of the CD's he has out that I didn't quite feel fond of, I liked some of the songs. One of my favorite songs that you don't hear anywhere is, "I Wonder You." That is such an awesome, yet you don't hear it anywhere.
@itsik1971 Yes! Does it matter, NO!!
Thanks for the info. I was sure Wendy married a guy, but I guess I was mistaken.
@diamonddust22 There is always much to question about Prince. That is one of the things that make him interesting. However, I think that he has done good/bad stuff with and without Wendy and Lisa. End of.
@njin Revolution NPG was when he went down hill. The only time Prince was great was with Wendy and Lisa. Prince is still amazing, but he has lost touch with his songwriting abilities, and has never recovered since. He will always have the talent, but this stuff he's doing now just doesn't cut it from what I know Prince is capable of. I am not only a fan, but I have been a musician for 25 years.
@candelise say what you like. Prince with Wendy and Lisa was the best ever. I hate to say it, and don't get me wrong cause I am a huge fan of Prince and always will be, but Prince is a narcissist, and with narcissists thier is no cure. Prince getting rid of Wendy and Lisa was his way of saying, nobody owns me, and that is what narcissists do, they sabotage things so they are alone.
@diamonddust22 Putting words in others' mouths is not too helpfull in this discussion. Yes we do have all the releases and much not officially released. We did get into him about the time of the first album, but that is neither here nor there. Unless Prince told you of his artistic intentions you can, like me, only speculate. However, I guess I do not need to tell this to an authority such as your good self!
@Cosmictalk Sure, Prince was the shit back in '89, but now? These ladies were THE best of his associates next to Sheila whom actually, without Prince couldn't get a decent real album together after him anyways... not a cool thing to say.
@purplexxe8 Yeah Prince should get over himself and get back together with the partners that made him as big as he is. Wendy and Lisa were a huge part of Prince's success.
@diamonddust22 A little suspicious when people say they are fans of Prince but have complaints about him since the Wendy and Lisa departure. A LOT of material that has gone by since then. Still a fan? A narcissist? Of course! That was on his form book since day one! Can Prince not do great material WITHOUT Wendy and Lisa? EVER? The mix was great, though I think Prince felt that he was hearing a direction other than before or he felt that he was being over reliant on the twosome.
ANd WENDy's TRIBUTe To SRv.....gogirlandus
@candelise You see you approach Prince as though you are some sort of authority on Prince, when in actually fact I had Prince's first album when it came out. I know what Prince is capable of and so does his real fans. The only thing Prince did after Wendy and Lisa that really stood out, was the Love Symbol CD, with 3 Chains of Gold on it, and Sexy M.F. A lot of his post W&L was over polished schmaltz written for up and coming females he wanted to push.
@candelise I'm not speculating nothing. My opinion was that he was better with Wendy and Lisa, and in his early album, and in the Love Symbol CD. The rest of it was just fast food nonsense thrown together cause he had left over songs, and that is exactly what it feels like. Also, his early Cd's were recorded in analog. His later stuff is way too over polished. I mean the Purple Rain soundtrack and the Controversy album, or 1999, is far better and beyond Emancipation, and it shows.
@candelise Don't get me wrong, everyone knows Prince is an amazing musician, but he's lost touch with who he is. This new direction he took, doesn't really jive at all. Wendy and Lisa was the perfect Prince group
b4. janis and kris...
@candelise His later stuff seems, and feels like leftovers. NPG is just Prince trying to create a brand name for himself. I am sure that if I sat down with Prince I would tell him the same thing to his face. Why? Because I care about him and I am not a yes-man.
That is so fucked up.
Why split up after 20 years?
@njin not really. Prince went down hill when he changed. Everyone including Prince knows that. You see I appreciate and respect Prince's musicianship, but I don't worship him like he's god and we are his disciples. Prince is just a great artist that is very talented. Revolution was Prince's best, after that he struck out really with that other avenue he went down. He is a top musician, and an amazing artist, but he became very self indulgent, and you can hear it.
@diamonddust22 Yeah, that 'Sign Of The Times' album really sucked DIDN'T It?
To paraphrase Colin Powell about Obama's supposed Muslim faith "what if they were?" :) Anyway, no, W&L weren't a couple. Prince played up the whole gender bending thing in his band. W&L've known each other since they were little kids. Wendy's been married to her longtime partner for several years and Lisa dated Matt Fink back in the day.
@kahuna3901 The only one worth mentioning is the symbol CD. Diamonds and Pearls wasn't good. Sign of the times was ok, not that memorable, and the Gold experience was just ok. I stopped listening after he started getting into that crappy modern music that you see today with all the whining R&B. Today's R&B has nothing to do with Rhythm or Blues, it's bullshit.