Riot Games ADMIT they will NEVER ban soft inters
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2024
- Riot has really dropped the ball imo. Soft inting is the most common and worst form of trolling in soloQ at the moment. They are making massive strides with banning hard inting griefers but soft inters get a free pass.
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I think soft inting is trying to lose the game on purpose without making it obvious so you can't get punished for it
spot on
The only reason account bans are "useless" are because riot does nothing about the smurf problem, soft inting and other game/community related issues. Hardware bans hurt places like internet cafes and the second hand PC market so IMO hardware bans are actually a bad thing as cheaters just spoof hardware IDs anyway so it doesn't even effect them while hitting innocent people in the crossfire. There is many things riot should be working on but I fully believe they never will, its why I quit and have no intentions of playing until they show they aren't incompetent.
exactly but they are to coward to go and set rules for big names and pro players
everyone can buy a smurf account but only the aware and the people that put in the effort can spoof hardware. If its even a few buttons harder to smurf then people wont do it because people are lazy
How do you tell the difference between soft inting and having a bad game or an unorthodox strategy? In low elo there are tons of games where adcs go 1-17 because an assassin or bruiser gets comically fed and spends the rest of the game farming the adc. Or the tank supports that engage and die but results in the team winning the teamfight. Sure they pass the eye test, but how would you go about creating an automated system to not ban these guys.
Point of the video, you cant
i feel like the word "soft inting" is wrong word for it. im very plain i also have asperger but for me if you int your int soft or hard xd
Machine learning is coming a long way recently. I wouldn’t be surprised if this becomes more possible to detect in the future. I hope there’s an actual protest process though - I never troll, but I do like to try out weird picks. 3-4 years ago I would play fiddlesticks and Cho gath mid. Plenty of people called me a troll and now it’s pretty common.
Win rate
I think what you might not be realizing is Riot themselves are selling the fresh level 30 accounts(secretly, of course it's a conspiracy, but the fact they are able to do it at all seems to indicate allowance which means they are effectively allies, not enemies) so they want banned account purchasers to buy the new accounts. And they have to buy their favorite skins/champs again so that's even more money.
I played with an Ahri support (with the 500€ skin) who was pretty good all game and tried, and when she died once, she spent the rest of the game dancing under the mid inhib tower, and we promptly lost the 4v5. And apparently she had been doing that for 2 weeks
apparently?:p im just kinda curious or did you made this up?
@@saloscontent apparently is allegedly in this context
I had an Annivia mid with Yuumi attached to her stand under turret the whole game doing nothing, letting the enemy take the turrets for free, and putting walls on me whenever I, the jungler was passing by. Single handedly made me dodge every Annivia team mate I’ve had since then. The two also gatekept us from FFing
This is soft inting to me since they weren’t intentionally running it down, they weee just not contributing
Yeah I dont know how these dont get banned
@@Bismarck-S yeah this is the soft inting that’s actually 100% easy to spot and ban if a rioter watches it. Not like the other forms of soft inting where its like, are they just bad?
Bro that's a brilliant idea. I'm going to try playing anivia support with a guardian angel rush + hourglass on one of my burner accounts.
@@karenwang313 lol you are part of the problem. this comment is the problem with the community you normalise trolling stop this pls
It will need to be very precise or the most reported roll, jungle, will be a piece of history. I've had games where I never had prio or was always 1v3 on the dragon or baron pit forcing me to try to generate leads elsewhere.
The people that sell all items and replace it with zeals or the people that rage clear the jungle I can get behind. Same for the walking wards that hang out in bushes because something didn't go their way.
my Smurf account got banned for Inting in 5v5 Premate flex game that we won ^^ but when i play Solo/duo and i get a 0/9/0 Voli top lane in 15 Minutes he gets to keep playing.
Honestly don't know the threshold on how many deaths get you banned
Good riddance. Smurfing ruins the game too.
@@Rewleague well 24 is to much i can tell you that xD
yeah smurfing ruin the game so much too, you make 5 other people angry in a match everytime you smurf. stop smurfing! why are you even doing it?
@@Rewleague 0/12/0
I'm worried about getting banned for soft inting because sometimes I like to try janky off meta stuff that doesn't end up working, and sometimes I make a bad play or am just completely unaware of what's going on elsewhere, and I can imagine in one of these unfortunate games I could piss off my team to the point I get reported and banned for soft inting. I'm not trying to lose, I'm just bad at the game, and if I lose my account for being bad then I don't think I'll come back.
Soft inting could mean whatever, but as far as I'm concerned, the two main types of inting include making sure the opponents get gold from you personally, and making sure the opponents get gold from your team. This can look like you just letting your ally fight alone in a hopeless situation when you are able to help and choose not to, but it could also be things like having plenty of vision on the map and still not going out to ward even though you have plenty of wards to plant before recalling or whatever. Like, the team needs you, and refusing to help your team is an issue. I'd even say not being at the Dragon Pit before the dragon spawns could be soft inting depending on the circumstances(for starters are you the jungler?) and the game plan. You could have a jungler being on time for dragon, and then the team isn't there to back you up or provide enough ward coverage for you to be able to withdraw and go back in or just fight them or whatever, etc. Those teammates that just didn't give a crap about their objective could be soft inting. They don't think dragon buff is worth their time. Now I know there are some matches where sometimes it's fine to skip out on dragon buffs...this tends to be more likely when it comes to top lane dominance and just with very unfair champs... but more often than not, it's a support that can't even be bothered to put a single ward much less the whole 3 for dragon attempt spotting that gets the jungler behind. I don't know how much 'dragon has spawned' is going to help anyone, we already have 'your ally is attacking dragon' notification in the game... maybe it'll make the jungler trying to get dragon started less awkward since now they don't have to literally hit the dragon to get allies to respond to his desperate desire for reinforcements.
I watched Baus live on stream. He had a Janna supp who sat under bot turret afk, then eventually afk'd in the fountain the rest of the game. I doubt anything happened to that soft inter, but baus got a ban.
The mistake you're making here is that Riot don't avoid this because they don't want to ban these people. It's because it's almost impossible to detect. It would almost certainly require some kind of machine learning or other A.I. technique and would have a non-zero rate of false positives.
Dang, if only they had the money to 1) implement such a system and 2) hire actual support to fix the false positives. Small indie company tho!!
@@jackdaniel3135 I think you're underestimating how much this would cost. I'm not sure it's even technically feasible. How would you have a machine learning model review every game and every player, to identify soft-inters. The computational cost would be insane. It would probably bankrupt them to even try. Amazon & Google charge threw the nose for that kind of cloud service and Riot would literally be trying to compete with those tech giants to try and roll their own system.
The root of the problem is solo queue and you will always have problems with people in such queue. By queuing as an entire team YOU get to choose who you want to play with so if someone trolls you or acts dumb 1 game you can just refuse to play with such person and no one wants to get kicked off a team so people act better there. I don't understand why Riot removed 5 man queue (flex doesn't count cause it's 1-5 queue) and we have some bullshit weekend tournaments no one really cares about.
I will say that going 0/17 can be people trying their best in Iron. While there are definitely people who soft Int, in lower elo a manual review to determine if they're bad or inting is definitely needed if actual soft inting is bannable. Team chat logs could be useful to save as well (replays only show you all chat, idk if they save team or party chat, but those would be interesting to see in replays and also could help show if someone types 'ff' and then runs it down or something for reviewing games that are potentially bannable.
Also, missclicks can happen for summoner spells, imo a pattern needs to be seen in a specific player for then to be banned to confirm it's not a 1 off.
Yeah sums they said one bad sum isnt being looked at. IT all needs fleshing out and I dont think 0/17 will be banned in iron, but 0/17 in Diamond+ trolling? the players are good enough to know what they are doing
indeed. for example when i have get stomped i often write in chat that im kinda screwed here!
I dropped out of gold, because 2 ppl back to back stole my jungle camps as my MMR was breaking out, and got an afk in a 3rd. LP losses became double gains. Ended up in iron following season...
To be honest I’d like trolls to go to their own troll queue. And I’m fed up of players that categorically refuse to ward - especially sups that don’t use their support item and don’t scan for wards, and don’t buy any control wards. It makes it so much easier to jungle when team mates place control wards at objectives!
>I havent seen (behavior) in a long time...
Meanwhile me in silver. "Damn i got like 3 of those this week."
great podcast as always but i wish u could make it longer honestly ur voice is so call that i could watch you for an hour talking abt nonsense without getting bore while i do other stuff
ahah I think i've got a chill longer one coming
They need to stop going crazy with the chat bans and restrictions so that people have that outlet to express their frustration, instead of soft inting.
100%
As a jungle/ sup main I’d say while it’s rare for people to buy meme items - it’s extremely frustrating to be in those matches. Same with people stealing jungle camps to get revenge on me ganking their lane a few times and they arnt trying to last hit the enemy champs/ they would be unable to get the kill where I can (like using ult with Evelyn under enemy turret).
That first part has nothing to do with soft inting, that's having fun playing a game. Today my bot lane was normal but was struggling and dying. My wife got S+ in the mid, and I was buying meme items in the top lane: Attack speed Veigar. Should my PC be banned? Not if I a) got my jungler fed and b) got 2nd top damage in game. If you had Vanguard look at my items which included Immortal Shieldbow and Wit's End, I would look like nothing but a horrid troll. But I got most kills in a bloody game, wasn't dying to the all AP enemy team, and still had a good amount of AP to one-shot ppl.
@@Kragnorak when I say meme items I’m meaning things like Vayn dying to teemo and refusing to buy anything other than cloaks.
With all the statistics they have, soft inting like this should be easy to auto detect. It's just incompetence of the dev team. Game monitors real time data from the game, very easy to spot a person just pushing buttons in the base. It would have to be lenient enough to just not ban random people.
they could just make you have to play 5 normal games if u get caught soft inting
1v3? i see 1v5 quite often or 2v5, adc support pushing side lane or mid and dying over and over again trying to push the tower, 0 tempo lines understanding
post 5 more comments broski, and wipe your tears
`yeah or when a support rage on you because u miss a last hit and then persued to t ake all your farm instead xd
@@saloscontent supports also take side wave minions and push, sometimes its good if nobody does take care of waves, but most of the times its very bad especially when its tank support taking the farm, if its brand support its not that bad or any mage
I think people need to remember too it’s a team game so when people refuse to play like a team. I’m a jungler, Adc. And when you have teammates that just ignore you during critical phases of the game, such as first scuttle, or first grubs, and just not even try to help. Should they not be considered soft inting then?
Soft inting is impossible to detect though, you can argue that soft inters are just having a bad game. It sucks and should be punished but its impossible to enforce. Selling all your items and buying 6 tears and following your jungler around isn't soft inting, that's hard griefing.
As someone who is absolute dogwater at the game I definitely dont think it should be bannable until a certain elo or whatever. Im sure if anyone watched me play theyd claim im soft inting but i literally cant play unless i have a friend telling me what to buy when to rotate etc. My farm game sucks too so theres plenty of times where the enemy is over 50 cs agead of me in lane phase
Its crazy, this is why the tribunal was a better system. players know what soft inting looks like, and with the tribunal system, something might actually be able to be done about the soft inting problem, i just think that its too difficult to detect this kind of behaviour with automated programs
I got account banned playing teemo support and I died 20 times. I did most dmg and had dark harvest and we won the game through my lane.
On the new account I became a teemo one trick out of spite and never ff
DO NOT BAN GRIFERS! It just buys a new account for 10 bucks and its all back to the same. Put it all in its seperate Q where it can grief each other.
This.... They shouldnt be banned, simply shunted into a seperate queue.
That way they dont make new accounts and like you said, only grief one another
Honestly not surprised by that
For me hard inting is actively trying to lose the game, while soft inting is _actively_ not attempting to win the game.
Not supporting your carry as a support because you decided they are not gonna carry, limit-testing for the fun of it, not pressing buttons in team-fights can all be examples.
It is however hard to judge when it is actual soft inting and when it is just the player being bad / making bad play.
Account sharing is illegal so if your lil bro griefs on your account, tuff shit, get banned
nah its seperate accounts but if big bro gets banned the actual PC is banned from league which sucks for lil bro. but still think tough shit big bro's fault
I feel like you don't play jungle.
In 100 games I probably have 5-10 occurrences of someone following me around my jungle taking every camp because I either ganked and got the kill, tried to help them push their lane out, or they died and "I should have been there".
i agree with your soft inting definition, but also people who suddenly pick a champ they've never played and play some off meta build
That's sadly not soft inting. It's just really, really stupid.
It's a grey area for sure
They do not ban hard inting either. Even if people announce it in chat. How many games have you had where one person makes an off-meta pick and another one immediately declares they will int to make that person lose? It should be so easy for them to spot it. „I troll now“, taking smite + going 0/10 should be enough evidence? But no, they just don‘t care.
There would be always some odd situations people would say and there is no way of verifiying it. I think FF'ing in a ranked game at 15 minutes when the game is still winnable, should count as inting. I had a ranked game recently where it got to just 35 minutes, we were in the enemy team's base doing nexus turrets after some even teamfights so it wasn't even an easy game and a FF vote came in and almost got through. Like, what the fuck is that all about? It's literally costing people LP and time to rank up because some dumb idiot things it's funny and other dumb idiots agree'ing with it. That shit should be disabled if the scores between teams isn't far apart. If a Diana for example is 10/2 at 13 minutes and the overall team score is 5/15, then yes, then you should be able to FF, but if it's 25/28 at a later stage of the game, then FF should be disabled unless someone leaves or is afk. Just so that troll things like this wouldn't happen.
had a guy lock rammus adc in with ghost cl;eanse and proceed to buy zeals and just sit in top lane alcove. ended with like 300 dmg and 0/17. nothing happened to him lol
riot community reps and the mfs in charge of player behavior and whatever should be made to play 5 to 6 matches in emerald elo per day, im sure they'd change their tune real quick
riot wont ban or even punish (soft) inters because theyre still giving them money and people are well sadly, used to them
That nami is probly sitting in a hostage held 6 to 18. I'd sit in base too. People dont know how to ff a game. And it almost feels like they qued up to get carried by someone else and wont let that one person go. How many times I have to beg to ff when theres no win con but people just wanna waste time is infuriating. So it is what it is in my book personally.
i had 0/10 kaisa support today, he said in champ select he will carry xd
yeah like for me thats where the line kinda sits, if a brand keeps getting caught out and goes 0/8, we all have bad games. That kai'sa is jsut a troll who got autofilled and doesnt want to play
@@Rewleague thats excessive. falls under "how I expect them to play"
You are allowed to experiment AND fail(cuz what experiments are 100% after 1 test). You are not allowed to obstruct gameplay
this,feels,like,a,rant.that,is,going,nowhere,theres,is,soe,genualy,bad,players.out,there
I understand its frustrating to have someone not try on your team, but software that will likely ban people who arent good, dont know about certain mechanics or really just want to play with their friends despite not knowing the game well is alittle concerning. I thought riot made a game, not a path each character has to follow to not get banned.
Soft inting is not about being bad or new. You have to intentionally ruin a game.
A couple of your examples have alot of deaths as an example, on top of 1v3ing all the time, sounds like bad play. Im just attempting to state the current level of software they can use will grab players who are having bad games. I understand the point of it just simply think taking people's hard earned progress away for potentially bad games is alittle far
@@alect1953 oh yeah i say theres no way they can detect it. Apart from this briar with death timers who is trollpicked a champ, first time and died so fast the only way she can achieve that is by spawning and dying as fast as humanly possible. Fuck that person
rage splitting bot laners, afk in fountain etc
rage splitting is one of the most common ones for sure, especially when they rage split all the way to the tower then base and refuse to take the tower
thats disgusting, so i get trolled by someone (true troll half cs, 0/10, doing completely nothing) and i start trolling myself bcuz my mind is out of the sky because of what you speak about, i buy tear and wait for game end by farming camps, and guess what, this person doesnt gett ban, but i get suspended for ending with stats 5/5 for example
here's an idea: stop typing and pinging and focus on your own lane
think this is a two wrongs dont make a right scenario just its very easy to pick up on you selling your items but much harder to detech the troll.
@@Rewleague as a good league citizen i will keep that in mind to not get baited by trolls i have to mute them its impossible to read that, plus i will not sell my items anymroe for a tear, although sometimes i wanna cry, like what monstosity sits on the other side of the screen, who is that person that is trolling on purpose
@@kamilkollodi2060 just cry irl 🤣🤣 but I do get your frustration
@@Rewleague your vids are heartwarming that actually there are many good players in all this mess
We need overwatch system like in csgo this way we can ban soft inters easily for 2 weeks or smth without the need of bot doing it
I tend to ban Sion every single match no matter whether my teammates want to pick him or not simply because in low Elo (in my experience) every single Sion player is a soft inter since they do not understand the fundamental theory behind exchanging their passive for map gold/objectives and simply end up 0/7/1 with comparable farm to their lane counterpart.
every single sion player is the bausffs without the brain
2:10 depends if it’s ranked or not
To me soft intentint is locking in jungle
The problem is that we dont have software good enough to distinguish someone soft inting and someone having a bad game.
I;ve had players give up and soft int to end the game faster but then they carry their next game. How can a computer deduce that he was soft inting in my game and not just having a bad day.
Theres no way to check for that unless we get an AI that interprets chats, movements across the map and scores, cross-reference everything and then maybe we can get a somewhat accurate picture of a soft inter but EVEN then it will never be accurate because there are players like TheBausff, who's score would imply he is soft inting but he is clearly not. ALSO bad players, theyre not soft inting, theyre just bad, not fair for them to get banned for being bad at the game.
agree with it all, like I said it so easy for us to say ban soft inters but in reality almost impossible to do it. I just dont think it should be brushed off as 'a bad game' because theres definetly a few that arent
It's how regular that is. How often is this person going 0/17, and how often is that player actually playing. It also depends on the other metrics of the game. Are they spamming their wards? Are they taking jungle camps as a support? The game passively tracks all this data anyway, and a system can be trained pretty easily that if a support has taken 30% of all jungle camps, they're trolling, if if 80% of the wards were spammed in nexus, they were trolling.
People being passive aggressive during game because they played poorly isn't a big deal. It happens. What they need to deal with the people who habitually do this behavior, who are trolling the majority of their games. The trolls you meet in game are the 1%, but that one person rarely stops after one game. Riot themselves have stated that for years, but they just gave up and instead focused on people people saying naughty words.
The examples they gave are bad though I also disagree with yours situationally. For example someone who lost lane and doesnt group because they are side laning or taking jungle camps which I wouldnt call soft inting. They are gaining resources to hit harder than soggy spaghetti. Thebausffs' entire strategy could be called soft inting. I honestly dont envy Riot. We all know soft inting is a problem that exists in the game that needs to get fixed ASAP but there isnt a clear cut definition that can be used to describe it.
i literlly had a game mabye 1-2 weeks where my adc pickt nunu smite and stol all my camps ich was so fucking mad i literly did this ticked thing and asked for hadware ban him and gave them a selution how you literly make it impossible for other rolles to pick smite without making switching roles impossible like wtf still dont know why he did that
Rew honest question, do you have fun making these videos do you enjoy the editing or the talking or both, ur an inspiration but it need to know...
Both the editing is the best bit depending on the video but I am going to stop the rant videos i dont enjoy them as much
true and real Rew! why are you against hardware ban as league player? yeah they are against it because they are the inters they are the trolls or the vulgar people in chat. they are scared thats why! i agree with you hardware ban is the best for to fix this! i have no scares to get banned so!
So when you lose a game with 2-10 as score you should get perma ban by hardware because you sof int. Is this a thing? Because i don't think you can be 100% acurete when a player 100% want to troll and "soft int" Because there is lot of player with different vision about how the game should be playing. Imagine a master yi jg afk farming instead help a losing lane is a soft int? I don't think so. The only way the Mastet yi can win is if he keep getting xp/gold by farming on early on.
Well I actually am afraid of the hardware bans because my pc isn't really that good and sometimes it just happens that it will crash or there will be a blackout which for me isnt that uncommon considering that I live in a small town. And a few times it happened that after champ select when the game window should have popped up it just didn't so I couldn't interact in any way and the game thought I was afk.
Now someone might think that these issues can't happen so often to cause bans but the last time something like this happened to me I had to always wait 30 minutes before it would put me in a queve for the next 5 games (that is 2 hours and 30 minutes of my life I will never get back). I have no idea if these penalties ever reset and if so how often so I'm scared that it will eventually lead to some permanent ban.
yeah these are the niche, I think AFK will be treated differently as by going afk you're already punished. The long queue times are already brutal
@@Rewleague AFK is already treated differently, after they finally put in those AFK detections. That's why - like the Nami showed in that clip - has to actively perform actions, because as long as they're using abilities and placing wards while in base, they won't get hit by the filter.
@@heychrisfox yeah this is what i mean aswell when people say hardware bans aren’t effective. This nami is terrified of a ban or she would simply afk and not waste 30 mins of her time.
nah hardware bans are terrible idea u can get accidently banned like baus and its gg
theres 130 million players and we pick one exception to the rule. for every 1 baus there are 5,000 sions just inting without any of the strategy he has
@@Rewleague yes i can understand but there are more people like him and i dont think riot has the energy to unband all of them hand by hand its just not worth for them but this would help league for sure
@@donatelo111 definitly just way too hard and costly to do
if people who I subscribe to stream I turn off all notifications from that person
yeah I do the same
Abuse or flaming in game is worse than trolling and much of the time the reason for players trolling. Many times l get chat abusers in game, they abuse for no reason, l have literally left the game after being flamed by one or more players in the team. I never play with abusers & I always report them.
Just press mute problem solved
@@Rewleague if you abuse someone in game, for whatever reason, you deserve to be trolled
@@bretleversha it shouldn’t happen the key difference is you can solve that issue yourself whereas trolling is out of your control
@@Rewleague it’s not up to me to leave the game from abuse. Riot has got toxic bans right, it’s up to the abused whether they troll or try to win. Most time I’ve seen trolls is after they’ve been abused by a player who then goes on to be not as good as they thought.
@@bretleversha not leave the game mute them you bloody snowflake
well, if I'm adc and I don't wanna group with you BECAUSE I think it's better for me to farm on a sidelane , that doesnt mean i'm inting. It means I'm bad and I took a bad decision and therefore - it's a rank placement issue. That's all.
I play league of legends in this way. I play it just like I was playing it in the season 3 when i started it. Back then, there were no 5 stack tower dives or assist jungler for scuttle . You cannot ban me for this. If I'm plat but I play like a silver macro-wise , than it's a game issue (RANK issue namely) and you can't ban someone for this.
Like it or not, soft inting is simply IMPOSSIBLE to ban. And that's the end of the story. It's simply impossible to distinguish between a 0-15 soft inter and a 0-15 bad player.
This is the problem. Sold your items? easy 100% ban, rage splitting or bad maco? no one can know. I think there's 100% soft inting thats so obvious it can be banned but with 10x the effort
Yeah, as adc you're already behind on xp, if you group mid when the sidelane towers are up you'll be losing lots of xp and gold, putting you behind even more.
@@Suhrvivor for sure or if you go mid and mid doesnt go bot. Its so hard to take everything into account
Right, but there's a difference between side-laning for farm and never-ever grouping for battles. I'm not saying people should get banned for playing independently, and I doubt Riot feels that way. But if you are afk in a sidelane, not participating in the game, that's not just independent gameplay, that's actively trolling your team with a numbers disadvantage
0/15 should get at least a warning or something. Also low kill participation and income gold can also be an indicator for trolling.
L take.
You're too naive about the accuracy of bans and their potency in preventing bad actors. small indie riot has proven time and time again that every effort they make towards meaningful change in this game only disappoints.
You acknowledge there's complexities to hardware bans that need to be ironed. Do you honestly believe they have the capacity to think of all loop holes when and develop a system to catch it all when their own client is a heaping piece of shit?
What's even the point of all this? to stop the cheaters and toxic abusers from playing? they will only need to add a couple more steps to their guides on dodging bans.
There is no solution possible with riot's current talent besides forcing even more invasions of privacy. But even then, the korean server proves that not even tying your real id solves this issue.
tl;dr = problem is hard and complex. riot is incompetent and cheap. the only loser here is the average player's privacy every time they bother to even try.
Your topics are the best I've ever seen when it comes to league. Your points should have a bit more structure, because half the video is rambly
yeah definitly ramble too much agreed
@@Rewleague I'm like 2 seconds away from subbing ma man. Just make the deal and I'll sub
I had the most insane iron 1 game. that something you would be interested in having?
Bomba
Come on thennn
@@salmon.enthusiastW E Q R u are now officially bombed
I think banning trolls and soft inters is a discrimination against players that play the game differently. Its a flex for me to tell other players I have 10% win rate.
LOW ELO CHANNEL BUUUHUUU 🤣
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