@@ひきこもりi Phantom ruby has superior hax and has been shown to counter other hax (out haxs the chaos emeralds, which have infinite power as stated in the idw, while LITERALLY BEING AN ANTI HACK.) Phantom ruby can only be countered by other phantom ruby prototypes.
I heard the first 3 minutes and it made me think of an odd analogy; Basically, you have one side of loyal russians willing to die, then on the other side, you have a manufacturing warehouse (filled with death drones, robots etc) and shown consistent ways to replenish his forces from Infinite, his own Death Egg MK III, and White Space where all of that was redone without Sonic in the equation, forcing him and us, the player to restore space-time. There are dark videos with simple aeriel drones, just drope grenades on human snipers. Even Eggman says the option of carpet bombing is on the table unless it has something to do with Sonic.
one issue I have is *fury bowser* is a uncontrollable state so him being able to talk AND use a super star or whatever shouldn't have been possible and because some may say I need to be fact checked "The rock music is representing the fact he still doesn't have full control over himself but the World Bowser theme is representing the fact he's aware of the situation and is returning to normal Bowser." why was this not taken into consideration? don't know. I'm not putting any oil into the already growing flames, I'm just asking why this wasn't considered.
one thing I hate about the sage thing is they said it doesn't since she was wrong in sonic frontiers, which I find them not even looking into why she was wrong in the first place Also find it werid eggman wasn't given the master emerald
It's weird because sonic going so fast he fixes space time which it's immeasurable speed and robotnik building robots that go faster than generation sonic tells you something.
Yes, it tells us that Sonic is moving at remotely his fastest speed there. If all the badniks are as fast as Sonic, there's literally no point to Metal Sonic. And no continuity ever implies the badniks are almost ever near Sonic in speed.
@@MindForgedManacle …Except for Metal Sonic. Metal Sonic has consistently been shown to match Sonic’s speed. Metal Sonic is designed to keep up and potentially be better than Sonic in all attributes, speed being a main factor.
Probably my biggest problem with the analysis was when they said Yoshi was star level because he defeated and yeeted an enemy that exploded into a constellation of stars. I mean, I can also lob a grenade that would blow a shed into pieces, does that make me small building level?
It was backed up by other feats, such as Mario lasso celestial object, freezing the sun with the Ice Flower and more…The Mario world has sometimes a very Looney Tunes like logic. Yoshi ground pounding Raphael the Raven (that’s the name of the boss) he turn into a star isn’t like throwing a grenade, because he didn’t explode on his own. It’s Yoshi who kicked him some hard.
@@lop3938Dude he didn't turn into a star. He just hit him with a wood and he flew to the sky Team rocket style. Comparing that to the egg blaster actually blowing up stars is insane. Stop wanking Mario characters.
It's simple. The Chaos Emeralds have unlimited power and the user can be as powerful as he wills it. The Stars no matter how many there are have a limit.
@@Mr.Cannnn are you talking about the game mechanic, because the super form is just a super form, they can be overpowered sometimes but the only time they're overpowered is with the end (A 7th dimensional being)
All I'm going to say is.... 1. It's Amazing Orbot and cubot survived while actually throwing hands which at least two of Eggman's creations survived 2. & then most importantly Sage did not become a victim & is somehow plotting against Bowser. 3. Metal Sonic Neo did his greatest effort & held out as much as he could 4. Overall it's out of the question that this animation had a lot of heart,thought & effort put into it but one little thing I don't get is why did Sage not get Eggman away from Dry Bowser? Or why did he not use his electrical SpikeBall from Sega super stars tennis to shock Jr & the wand to why Eggman didn't get Sonic Shuffle abilities to Bowser's Mario Party physics? 5. Finally yall know Eggman survived that punch into space or was possibly just another decoy. We've seen Eggman breathe in outer space without a helmet somehow,& survive the explosions of his cockpits,or when the time eater exploded,slinged by dark Gia,fell from lost hex like it was nothing. I agree Bowser winning but i don't think Eggman died from that when he literally survived the death egg exploding multiple times. Hold on,I came back from x just to see the actual animator make an alternate ending of the fight where Eggman blows up the entire mushroom kingdom & them successfully killing Dry Bowser. That's the true ending.
To make it clear: *Eggman* is a genius with incredible intellect and technological prowess. However, his ego often gets the better of him, leading to his downfall. At the end of the day, he’s still human, relying on science and engineering to achieve his goals. While his inventions and schemes are impressive, his overconfidence and lack of foresight often leave him vulnerable. On the other hand, *Bowser* is a literal giant lizard and a force to be reckoned with. He’s managed to conquer entire kingdoms (and even the universe at times), with magic being a key part of his arsenal. Bowser is a powerful character in his own right, and despite his frequent failures, he’s proven to be resourceful and resilient. Under his shell, he’s built an empire and pulled off some truly amazing feats, often holding his own in battles that rival or even surpass Eggman’s efforts.
So many forget luigi’s mansion king boo is NOT a part of bowsers army The one A PART does NOT have the powers of king boo from luigi’s mansion and WOULD not be a match for infinite in anyway. They even got the WRONG phantom ruby as eggman has the REAL one infinite has the COPY This death battle also lowballs eggmans feats and act like Sage can’t pilot eggmans other mechs Now i’m not saying eggman WINS I’m saying they lowballed him+ messed up a ton of characters They ALSO kept the 60 second super form rule when thats been proven wrong A super form can canonically last 3-4 days as shown in a cutscene nothing says neo metal cant do the same. Also forgot to add they completely ignored metal overlord and never mentioned it when its a wincon.
@@BoughtCanoe Metal overlord requires biodata (in IDW) and I wouldn’t exactly call it a wincon.. and they also didn’t keep the 60 second super form rule it’s more so them interpreting how super neo metal in IDW was depowered , which I do disagree with.
@@ひきこもりi Metal overlord is stronger than super neo metal, who was very much a match for the grand star. The biodata could have been pre-gathered and copied, like them having the emeralds and for some reason not having the damn master emerald.
My problem with this video is the wonder flower vs phantom ruby where you boil it down to both manipulating reality which is a weird point as these have different levels of manipulation
@Squifflifting honestly man, Bowser could've just used transmutation magic to turn metal into a say, a frog or straight up repower the chaos emeralds, straight up disabling Eggman in his entirety
@xigabrelless1980 That's not an argument. Bowser's transmutation has consistently shown bullshit powers. And again, what is stopping Bowelser or Kamek from just turning the chaos emeralds into something else like say, dust? They have never shown any kind of resistance to that sort of magic, especially taking into consideration that Dark Gaia straight up DEPOWERED THEM. Bowser's magic is leagues above that level of power comparatively
My issue with this death battle: Why tf did eggman not use the time stones or empower his army with the master emerald? Idk if it’s possible that Boswer used that star as Fury Boswer(correct me if I’m wrong) Imagine the Time eater with the time stones or infinite! I would have been crazy if eggman held onto that fake chaos emerald to get away from Boswers last ditch effort or summon the shadow androids. I’m not salty or anything, eggman’s army arrangement fucked Jim up imma be honest.
They explain it in the Death Battle: If Eggman got more, they would have to be fair and give Bowser more of his endgame items too. But if they did they, the DB would either be a tie or Eggman would still lose, depending on who gets what items.
@@MindForgedManacle Yeah I agree, this death battle has the most crazy what if scenarios and it turns out he loses most of them, I just felt like eggman didn’t have much back up options, same with Bowser, the Kooplings weren’t there (animation issues) nor I didn’t see his crazy airships and stuff. Eggman just failed to attack a big strong Koopa who didn’t even have prep time which makes this even more embrassing💀
Good Video 👍 You did a good job on making corrections about Bowser vs Eggman from Death Battle, especially using their own logic. Even though I don't mind that Bowser won as I personally think the fight between them would end in a tie or could go either way, I do agree that Death Battle kind of did low ball Eggman even a little bit too much at times and they kind of did misinterpreted some things. Other than that, great video on making corrections using the Death Battle video 🌟
They also nerfed Bowser’s army a bit too. The rest of the Koopalings and Petey Piranha got left out of the fight. They both would wreck absolute havoc among Eggman’s forces not named Metal Sonic.
@topace1038 The Koopalings are alright and Pirana Planets are decent. However, even with them, they won't exactly get far against Eggman's Army. The Koopalings don't scale anywhere near Infinite's level as Infinite was stated by Sega to be the strongest enemy Sonic has ever faced during the events of Sonic Forces, which this would scale Infinite above Solaris, who was an omnipresent and super-dimensional being that would've been capable of destroying the entire Sonic Cosmology with ease if he hadn't been defeated as well as the Time Eater that scales a bit above Solaris as well. Which, we also have to take into consideration the fact that Eggman regularly builds things that are constantly stated to be the most greatest creations he's ever made even after he's made machinery and mechs that can transcend dimensionality, which even some the robots from Sonic 06, who were just regular badniks in the Sonic 06 gameplay were stated to be the greatest creations that Eggman has made at the time, then Eggman's Egg Dragoon at the time of Sonic Unleashed was stated to be Eggman's greatest creation after that along with Eggman's Egg Dragoon being able to keep up with Sonic during Sonic Generations even in speed along with Metal Sonic being stated to be Eggman's greatest creation in Sonic Generations, which Infinite is then stated to be Sonic's greatest threat at the time of Sonic Forces, which means Infinite scales above all of those threats Sonic has faced in the past, which Eggman ended up surpassing Infinite's level at the end of Sonic Forces with his new Death Egg Robot that was empowered by the Phantom Ruby that Eggman had in his Arsenal. Reason why I mention this is because Death Battle didn't even touch on those subjects or even mention any of them. Even though the Koopalings weren't used, even though they were mentioned, they mostly went against their own words on a few things as the video here proves while also leaving a lot of things out on Eggman's side along with completely misinterpretating the Phantom Ruby's power and capabilities and underestimating Sage's abilities. I still think it would end in a tie or could go either way between Bowser and Eggman, but I just wanted to point some things out for you. They didn't use everything for Bowser, but they at least mentioned Bowser's capabilities and Army, even though I personally think Bowser scales a little bit higher than what even Death Battle suggests both by himself and with his army, but even then I still think that Eggman definitely got the most low balling and misinterpretations between him and Eggman. Just wanted to give you some insight on what I think at the very least.
@topace1038 By the way I don't mind if you skip some parts of my comment if you want because I know that my comments sometimes when it comes to power scaling and Vs Battle Debates may be a little too long due to the amount of things I want to point out that are a little bit hard to just summarize
Eggman would win in every fight. They did not mention how Eggman can travel through time, and banish anyone to the distant past/future. This, along with Sage's ability to run simulations, would give Eggman the upper hand long before the battle starts. This means Eggman would be aware of Bowser's every move, which means that the first thing Eggman would do as the battle starts is to get rid of Boo, which would give Infinte free reign to do whatever he wants. This also means that Eggman can just rewind time until ''Chance Time'' is in his favor, rather than Bowsers. It also means that Eggman can develop an EMP that implants chips in all of Bowser's minions to render Sage's abilities effective on them. etc etc... They did not even mention Nightmare Eggman, who effectively has no weakness, while at the same time pulling out powers for Bowser that turn things into cardboard... The fact they even failed to mention Eggman's full potential and abilities means that the battle is rigged against him.
@@Warking19 They did mention Solaris, but funny how he did not play any part in the actual battle. He exists in the past, present, and future, and Bowser traveling as 1 instance in time would not be able to best Solaris. But... I am sure your response will be something along the lines of "Bowser can defeat Solaris with the power of cartoons and feeling like it" xD
@@Warking19 Isn't death battle each character on their best? Sonic 06's story shows Eggman basically gathering the ingredients to make Solaris, meaning that Eggman would have Solaris as a harnessed power when he is at his best. I mean.. why would they give King Boo's loyalty to Bowser, when King Boo’s primary focus is only revenge against Luigi, not Bowser’s ambitions.
i know im late to the party but i will say this the multiplier of how much the grand stars have actually dont matter. as the chaos emeralds are repeatedly stated and shown to have infinite power. whereas the grandstars have no such statements it doesnt matter how many "grand stars" bowser has. as the power of them will ultimately not be able to reach a level of infinity like the chaos emeralds. so it actually doesn't matter because any amount of grand stars would < the chaos emeralds because the emeralds have infinite power whereas the grand stars don't. so the multiplier argument is irrelevant as the chaos emeralds having infinite power. will always infinitely trump what the grand stars have people need to realize it doesn't matter how much of something you have. if its not infinite the amount will never be equal or stronger than infinity. even if you had millions. or billions of grand stars. they are still a finite energy source. whereas the chaos emeralds aren't
Death Battle also metioned that despite Sage's milions of simulations she was still wrong because Sonic proved her wrong. Which is meaningless and controversial for Sonic fans. I heard from other people that it was actually the amount of stuff that Bowser brought that overwhelmed her caucalations and that she is not a one way ticket to victory.
@outoffr4me I mean for the fact that they said SONIC of ALL people proving her is meaningless because he is not an ordinary Sonic character like Big The Cat, He is the Sonic The Hedgehog, The main character of his own franchise and one guy capable of deafeating the mightiest of foes excluding Dark Enerjak. Sonic proved her wrong because he is special and not ordinary. Death Battle said in such a way that further justifies their bias for Mario and disregards Sonic importance in his own franchise.
@@TalExe666 wait why did you put Enerjak in there? Death Battle likes to compose different versions of a character but they don't count Archie Sonic for Game Sonic (even though it's closer to the games then other versions of the character that they use)
@outoffr4me He is the only one that Sonic can never defeat, Everyone and evertyhing else Sonic can defeat. Think of it as an example not something what Death Battle is researching for.
@@TalExe666 A way to prove what you're talking about is to use Sonic and the 7 Rings. The story book was supposed to end with Sonic dying but he didn't. It's proof that he can defy destiny and fate itself.
One idea I had for how Eggman could win using DB's own logic, was since there's more than one phantom ruby prototype, once king boo is out of the picture, couldn't eggman use multiple phantom rubies to mess with bowser by creating a muti-layered reality to keep him busy while sage and Metal.sonic take out biwser's supporting forces, then take on bowser when he's alone? ((Probably unlikely, but it seemed like a possibility))
Eggman did win on Moro's alternate ending on Twitter yesterday. Eggman was able to fire the laser again, sacrificing Orbot and cubot & the entire mushroom kingdom. Leaving Dry Bowser in space before being blown to bits by the death egg. So there's that.
I kind of thought that Eggman could have the phantom Ruby screw with Bowser’s power ups and resources. Like, make them think all the power ups disappeared or something. Also, they said Kamek’s power copying shut down Metal Sonic’s copying… But shouldn’t it be more like he and Metal cancel each other out since Metal can copy him?
I'm going to tell you this right now.. your argument fell apart RIGHT in the first few minutes.. The whole point of a Army is for them to fight both offensive AND defensively. Arguing that eggmans army is more of Just "his weapon" in comparison does not make it any Better.. if anything it makes it worse.. Metal Sonic was HARD CARRYING the fight, Infinite could have probably done the same if it were not for Bowser having Kingboo on his side who is more or less the same kind of adversary as infinite. Eggman sees his army as Disposable because they can be rebuilt after the fight.. HELL Saged used the badniks AS PROJECTILES Bowser cares / LOVES about his army and they train to make sure they keep each other safe.. It's because of this eggman's force is 10 to deplete faster than Bowsers ever could . Hell Bowser tanking the death egg beam to protect his army was a valid strategy in itself because he's army could bring him back with the dark magic.
"Arguing that eggmans army is more of Just "his weapon" in comparison does not make it any Better.. if anything it makes it worse" you messed up right there he didnt argue it made it bettter he argued that the army catogory going to bowser doesnt make sense cause both of their army's are similiar cause friendship and trust dont matter in this fight. you cant prove eggmans army will deplete more than bowsers. in other words the army category is useless. even if u argue that it isnt useless eggmans army is stronger metal and sage and the robots is better than Jr and magikoopa and bowsers troop
@@avocadoiscool3717 in War Trust and Friendship helps A LOT what do you MEAN? "Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys; look upon them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death." Sun Tsu the Art of war Hell just because something is metal and technology advanced does not equate to it Being better.. the Ewoks defeated the empire in return of the Jedi Hell even in real life.. US lost the Vietnam war DESPITE them having More guns, more tanks and more bombs and napalm. The Vietnamese one thanks to their loyalty, cooperation, superior tactics and home field advantage
@@bombermanp978 im not one to powerscale personally, but if trust and friendship matter so much, having an army that follows every command to the exact letter would be essentially the same as having perfect trust and friendship also, the vietnam point is kinda weird considering Eggman would have superior tactics, loyalty, and cooperation (because he doesn't need to team up with anyone at all because it's just him) personally don't see what you mean by this
Death battle at conpect was legit give every fighter 100% of their power so even eggman can have lots of his mechs and also have classic robotnik and nega eggman on side.
I hate whenever people say “oh metal sonic one shots bowser” and those same people never provide arguments for metal sonic countering/resisting being turned into cardboard or being possessed by king boo…or generally withstanding any of bowser’s haxes.
Bowser may be able to make his army bigger, but so can Eggman. Bowser with his abilities and hax especially using the power source that provides him the ability of Reality Manipulation would be able to increase the size of his army while Eggman with the abilities and hax of his different mechs along with his different bases would be able to increase the size of his own army, which Eggman would definitely be able to increase the size of his army using the Phantom Ruby since it can create an army of complete copies of characters like Zavok, Chaos, Metal Sonic, and Shadow as well as Infinite himself when being used by both Infinite and Eggman himself. So both Bowser and Eggman can increase the size of their Army, so it isn't really an argument to give on either side, just something that should be taken into consideration for both characters.
I think it's just because they used Metal Overlord in 2 other fights, so they decided to go with Super Neo Metal this time. Just because he didn't appear in the animation doesn't mean he wasn't counted in the actual fight, when things like the Dream Stone and Time Eater were also counted for the battle but just weren't in the animation.
@@cbfranco3307Not only that, but Metal was also rogue (or was implied to be rogue in the Zero vs Metal Sonic Deathbattle) in the two Deathbattles and from what I remember, Metal Overlord is a form Metal achieves while he disobeys Eggman and betrays him, in Bowser vs Eggman, Eggman is commanding and controlling his Army, including Metal (Also Metal only went rogue in the Wily vs Eggman Deathbattle due to Wily's roboenza)
@@Serious5GamingS5G No, not really. Yes, in Sonic Heroes, Metal Overlord went rogue, but in the IDW comics Metal went Metal Overlord and was still working for Eggman because Eggman "took away my rebellious side" as he said when he was Neo Metal Sonic. So yeah he could have went Metal Overlord in the fight just fine.
@davidc. It's not Bowser that sells better. It's The mario franchise itself. Mogs mean man of gods which I don't think Bowser is at all. He's a king.. Iconic? That's subjective & debatable all things considering as some believe Mario is more Iconic than Sonic or Sonic is more Iconic than Mario. I like Eggman more in terms of character & think he's funnier but that's just me.
To put it simply, you're misunderstanding like every point. The army point DB made is important because Eggman isn't always right, and in fact often loses because he was wrong about something (usually Sonic's capabilities, or who he works with). If he's wrong, all the badniks that do exactly as ordered can't compensate for his shortcomings. Contrast this with Bowser, and specifically compare their "generals" so to speak. Their best members. For Bowser, it's King Boo, Kamek and Jr (and the Koopalings, if they were included). King Boo, for one, is a very informal member of the Koopa Troop. We only see him take orders from Bowser once I think (in Paper Jam) and otherwise operates on his own entirely (which the CB shows very well). But he is like the perfect counter for the Phantom Ruby, being a master illusionist mage himself and able to actually warp an entire dimension. He doesn't need Bowser to explain what to do, or when to do it, or why. He's completely independent, if allied. The same goes for Kamek. He's very loyal to Bowser, but he plays a support role for Bowser in the cases where Bower himself fails (or his minions fail), usually by gigantifying them or blasting away Mario (Galaxy 1). The only person that fits this role for Eggman is Sage. There's no real synergy though, she's just taking the same role as Eggman, with the assumption that she will have the total foresight that no one under her could have or account for with specialized abilities and thoughts. Trump cards are not powers, and to claim they are is utterly stupid. Trump cards here exclusively refers to endgame macguffins/superweapons that amplify what the user can do. Like, the Time Stone is Doctor Strange's trump card in the MCU, while his powers are just his spells. He always has access to his spells as a sorcerer, but he obviously doesn't always have the Time Stone. What counts as a trump card changes depending on what's being considered, but no one's going to consider a VS where the character lacks all their powers. It's pointless. How is this confusing? Eggman doesn't always have every endgame item or deity at his beck and call.
You made some good points. However, there a couple of corrections that have to be made. King Boo can't counter the Phantom Ruby, because the only thing that can counter the Phantom Ruby is the Phantom Ruby itself or other Phantom Rubies and Phantom Ruby prototypes. Which that's how the Avatar in Sonic Forces was able to counter and not be effected by the Phantom Ruby's power. Other than that, if you don't have another Phantom Ruby or Phantom Ruby prototype, then you're getting effected by the capabilities of the Phantom Ruby at least in some way shape or form bare minimum. Now, King Boo does have similar capabilities compared to Infinite and I would say it would be an interesting fight. However, King Boo doesn't exactly scale close to Infinite's full power. Another correction is that when it comes to both Eggman's Powers and Trump Cards, they are different, but both categories should be a tie since Death Battle themselves admit that it would be a tie for Trump Cards and Eggman has mechs and machinery that have either similar or exactly the same type of abilities that Bowser has, even though Bowser and Eggman also each have their own unique abilities, to me at least, it should still be a tie between the two as they both can do similar things and have the same capabilities along with a few of their own unique capabilities. Those were just a couple corrections I'd like to point out, but so far, everything else, you're pretty much on point.
Trump cards each have their own individual powers, no? The time stone still has powers, no? Not always having it is irrelevant since DB are going to consider it as a part of the arsenal anyway, no? And I explained how the phantom ruby isn't really "casting illusions", no..? And Sage/Eggman don't serve the same role, she exists to make up for areas in which he lacks (helping him to overcome his ego and ally with sonic, as an example)
Speed doesn't equal strength. But more or less coming from this video is that, according to Death Battle, Bowser and Eggman scale at the exact same tier and are on par with eachother in both Strength stat categories and Speed stat categories, but then Death Battle proceeds to give Physical Stats to Bowser, even though they said themselves that both Bowser and Eggman are equivalent in such a stat category that they provided. So in this video as it's only using Death Battle's own words and logic, it's basically saying that the Physical Stats category shouldn't have went to Bowser as Death Battle themselves said that Bowser and Eggman are equivalent in physical stats.
Idk why they didn’t have metal sonic copy bowsers bio-data, the bio data could have given eggman a advantage because metal sonic copying bowsers bio data which neutralize the battle of nutrition because metal would have all of bowsers powers.
@Warking19 well as the comment above mine pointed out Metal Sonic would likely blitz Kamek and copy the bio data before Kamek can use the magic. He could also use Chaos energy to restore the Bio data absorption. Go back in time to kill Kamek before it can do it.
I'm gonna debunk 1 factor of the army point, Metal Sonic & his copycat bullsh*t, Sage with supreme, and also infinite, the rest are obviously not Sentient but Eggman's army is overall smarter while Bowser's is just, mostly brain dead idiots & not as smart as the ones in Eggman's army
@@Tari_10_Editz they’re not necessarily idiots, in most adaptations they’re relatively competent, like any other form of foot solider. Their simplistic behaviour comes from the games
@ I mean from normal gameplay, which is dishonest because most gameplay is inaccurate to the actual lore of the games. They're clearly very competent in, for example, the mario & luigi games, but are limited to moving forwards and backwards in the platformers
Do by using deathbattles logic you mean nitpick random points and reqord them to make them sound self-contradictory, thinking you maklde an argument when really it all false apart. This was the worst debunk I've seen yet.
Aren't all debunks nitpicks? And yeah I am nitpicking, nitpicking what I think didn't make sense. And I agreed with deathbattle 90% of the time in principle (e.g, they're equivalent in mechs/forms) but I disagreed with how the information was used (saying bowser has superior physical strength). And the second half of your sentence is largely your own opinion (which is fine..) but won't you back it up with an argument of your own?
@moonceIl Just as you want to call something that had no substance or any rebuttal for the points DB made a debunk, I'll call this my argument. Debunks are consise. It you're deliberately getting hung up on incidental details.
Saying their armies don't matter is wild... Eggmans army has no Sentience and is controlled by one person thus them not really having any teamwork or strategy and they just swarm in hopes of winning with numbers and brute force which will only get them so far. plus Bowser could easily keep reviving any of the fallen in his army as a dry version of themselves. The only ones who attempted to help eggman directly was infinite, metal sonic and sage. once they were out the way (which Bowser could've easily just wished all 3 of them out of existence at any time) eggman was done for. metalsonic was the only real threat in eggmans army and bowser had multiple ways to deal with him. I think you are just salty that eggy lost.
No strategy? Wth they are combat bots with combat AI, Sage and Eggman do the strategy and the soldiers execute their commands. The whole "Bowsers Army is loyal and thats why Bowsers army is better" makes no sense since both execute their commands, it was just Death Battle glazzing Bowser.
@@gustavowhite4349A good old Sonic fans being bias as always, it wasn’t just loyalty. The Koopa Troop constantly trained themselves and have multiple ways of working together. No to mention that all of them could use Mario Powers Up meant they were far more versatile than Eggman Empire. No to mention, most of Bowsers teammate could more easily changed the game of the fight, like King Boo ability to control the environment, Junior’s Paint and let’s not talk about how busted Kamel was with his abilities. Eggman only had Metal Sonic with his power and speed to keep up with the army but in any case Eggman’s army was cooked.
@@lop3938 Death Battle themselves said that Metal Sonic alone would solo Bowsers Army, most Power Ups for the troops are really not that significant, first of all for most of the power ups versions of the basic troops, Eggman has a robotic counter part for as an example for Ice Bros Eggman has ice Badniks from Ice Cap or for Fire Bros Eggman has fire Badniks. Kameks fodder speed and fodder strength would do shit against Metal Sonic, Infinite or even Sage. Death Battle themselves said that Eggmans Army has higher firepower, tf is a rock Koopa going to do against a whole ass rocket, if the fire power is so one sided teamwork and versatility aint doing shit, I wanna see how a few goombas and koopas will defeat with an Death Egg Robot who can shoot Lasers with the power of an atom bomb thanks to the power of teamwork and friendship. (Death Egg Robots are mass produced in Forces)
@@lop3938good old Mario fan, always throwing insults when someone disagree while also display the same bias they accuse Sonic fans of doing. Saying that Dr Eggman only has metal sonic is wild but typical for a Mario fan that likes to downplay everything from Sonic.
Infinite and Metal died, meanwhile Bowser's biggest loss was King Bob-Omb. Imagine if this was the other way around. Eggman won, Kamek lost a beam clash without any tension, the Koopalings ended to an E-2000 unit, and Eggman's biggest loss was a single Hard-Boiled Heavy. Morø cooked with the animation, but whoever made the storyboards he had to follow was clearly biased. And let's not even get into who they chose as the researcher...
@@epiccarrot88 Bowser technically lost King Boo and Kamek. King Boo was out of the fight when Metal Sonic knocked off his crown and Kamek got one shot once he got hit. Metal Sonic did a lot of fighting before going out and it took a combination of the Grand Star and Bowser's Fury form to take him out.
@@RadioEggMelonNeighbor Ok and? Let the animator do his thing and just enjoy the fight for what it is you freaking m@nchildren. I've seen at least 6 "debunk" videos in just the first week of this fight being out. The salt from you sonic fans are real. Death battle made it clear in their analysis that they decided the fight based on who has more catergories edged out over the other. Given a different scenario of course Eggman could win. I don't love Bowser or Eggman any less and enjoyed the fight regardless of who won so I don't see what the issue is with you sonic fans and twitter raving about it.
@@RadioEggMelonNeighbor Ok and? Let the animator do his thing and just enjoy the fight for what it is you freaking whiners. I've seen at least 6 "debunk" videos in just the first week of this fight being out. The salt from you sonic fans are real. Death battle made it clear in their analysis that they decided the fight based on who has more catergories edged out over the other. Given a different scenario of course Eggman could win. I don't love Bowser or Eggman any less and enjoyed the fight regardless of who won so I don't see what the issue is with you sonic fans and twitter raving about it.
@@cier5158There's like 99 percent of people praising the death battle video. If a few people want to make a debunk video that's there right. You have the right to just not watch. And I don't know why you bringing up "Sonic fans" as if there wasn't a billion angry Mario who butthurt over the first fight. There's actually way more Sonic fans praising this video yet too many dumb comments like this exist.
@@NebulaSon 1. I said I saw 6 videos I didn't say I watched all of them 2. the amount of sonic salt in ALL of the haters is burning my twitter feed rn. The Mario fans are at least polite 3. Kinda hard to not at least check the videos out when 7 of them show up on my recommended 24/7
@@cier5158 1)I don't believe there are six videos debunking death battle. It was tough for me to find two. Everybody keeps praising this death battle episode and acting like it's god greatest gift . 2) That's a lie. I went on Twitter to search up opinions. I tried to find one tweet who agreed that Dr Eggman was done dirty. Basically everyone including sonic fans(which they never get credit for) kept praising the video and some like you were complaining about imaginary sonic fans being butthurt even though I found non. Now that I finally found a debunk video and people are now angry that someone has a different opinion. And you said that Mario fans were polite, which is just a load of bull. There's literally Mario fans in this comment section being rude as hell. Even your comment came off rude and disrespectful, despite the this UA-camr not saying anything mean. So I don't want to hear that BS
@@Serious5GamingS5G I'm not mad? I just feel as if db's arguments were a little silly. I liked this deathbattle it's prob my 3rd favourite next to the mega man battle royale and uhhh frieza vs megatron
Infinite wasted, he could create copies of metal sonic. A black hole, a sun.
The ruby ilusions become reality they hurt like the real thing.
To be completely fair so could bowser
@@ひきこもりi Phantom ruby has superior hax and has been shown to counter other hax (out haxs the chaos emeralds, which have infinite power as stated in the idw, while LITERALLY BEING AN ANTI HACK.) Phantom ruby can only be countered by other phantom ruby prototypes.
Egg man even stated the phantom ruby was more powerful than the master emerald, do the math.
to be fair, so was Infinity in game who was wasted so badly with his Infinite potential
Also eggman has three phantom rubies
I heard the first 3 minutes and it made me think of an odd analogy;
Basically, you have one side of loyal russians willing to die, then on the other side, you have a manufacturing warehouse (filled with death drones, robots etc) and shown consistent ways to replenish his forces from Infinite, his own Death Egg MK III, and White Space where all of that was redone without Sonic in the equation, forcing him and us, the player to restore space-time.
There are dark videos with simple aeriel drones, just drope grenades on human snipers. Even Eggman says the option of carpet bombing is on the table unless it has something to do with Sonic.
one issue I have is *fury bowser* is a uncontrollable state so him being able to talk AND use a super star or whatever shouldn't have been possible and because some may say I need to be fact checked "The rock music is representing the fact he still doesn't have full control over himself but the World Bowser theme is representing the fact he's aware of the situation and is returning to normal Bowser." why was this not taken into consideration? don't know. I'm not putting any oil into the already growing flames, I'm just asking why this wasn't considered.
Who knows? Ask deathbattle.
one thing I hate about the sage thing is they said it doesn't since she was wrong in sonic frontiers, which I find them not even looking into why she was wrong in the first place
Also find it werid eggman wasn't given the master emerald
It's weird because sonic going so fast he fixes space time which it's immeasurable speed and robotnik building robots that go faster than generation sonic tells you something.
Yes, it tells us that Sonic is moving at remotely his fastest speed there. If all the badniks are as fast as Sonic, there's literally no point to Metal Sonic. And no continuity ever implies the badniks are almost ever near Sonic in speed.
@@MindForgedManacle …Except for Metal Sonic. Metal Sonic has consistently been shown to match Sonic’s speed. Metal Sonic is designed to keep up and potentially be better than Sonic in all attributes, speed being a main factor.
Probably my biggest problem with the analysis was when they said Yoshi was star level because he defeated and yeeted an enemy that exploded into a constellation of stars. I mean, I can also lob a grenade that would blow a shed into pieces, does that make me small building level?
It probably does while you are in ownership of grenades, ((with a note that you are small building level with equipment))
It was backed up by other feats, such as Mario lasso celestial object, freezing the sun with the Ice Flower and more…The Mario world has sometimes a very Looney Tunes like logic. Yoshi ground pounding Raphael the Raven (that’s the name of the boss) he turn into a star isn’t like throwing a grenade, because he didn’t explode on his own. It’s Yoshi who kicked him some hard.
@@lop3938Dude he didn't turn into a star. He just hit him with a wood and he flew to the sky Team rocket style. Comparing that to the egg blaster actually blowing up stars is insane.
Stop wanking Mario characters.
well yes
@@lop3938 He didn't turned into a star. He just flew to the sky like team rocket. I don't know what the Death Battle crew were smoking.
It's simple. The Chaos Emeralds have unlimited power and the user can be as powerful as he wills it. The Stars no matter how many there are have a limit.
Both still have their limits btw, idk why you just described the emeralds like they’re indestructible
@@Mr.Cannnn are you talking about the game mechanic, because the super form is just a super form, they can be overpowered sometimes but the only time they're overpowered is with the end (A 7th dimensional being)
All the battle shows is that Bowser is easily trounced by Metal Sonic without assistance.
All I'm going to say is....
1. It's Amazing Orbot and cubot survived while actually throwing hands which at least two of Eggman's creations survived
2. & then most importantly Sage did not become a victim & is somehow plotting against Bowser.
3. Metal Sonic Neo did his greatest effort & held out as much as he could
4. Overall it's out of the question that this animation had a lot of heart,thought & effort put into it but one little thing I don't get is why did Sage not get Eggman away from Dry Bowser? Or why did he not use his electrical SpikeBall from Sega super stars tennis to shock Jr & the wand to why Eggman didn't get Sonic Shuffle abilities to Bowser's Mario Party physics?
5. Finally yall know Eggman survived that punch into space or was possibly just another decoy. We've seen Eggman breathe in outer space without a helmet somehow,& survive the explosions of his cockpits,or when the time eater exploded,slinged by dark Gia,fell from lost hex like it was nothing.
I agree Bowser winning but i don't think Eggman died from that when he literally survived the death egg exploding multiple times.
Hold on,I came back from x just to see the actual animator make an alternate ending of the fight where Eggman blows up the entire mushroom kingdom & them successfully killing Dry Bowser.
That's the true ending.
I came here to say because death battle nit picks and is heavily bias most of the time, just look at some other sega vs nintendo mtch ups
To make it clear:
*Eggman* is a genius with incredible intellect and technological prowess. However, his ego often gets the better of him, leading to his downfall. At the end of the day, he’s still human, relying on science and engineering to achieve his goals. While his inventions and schemes are impressive, his overconfidence and lack of foresight often leave him vulnerable.
On the other hand, *Bowser* is a literal giant lizard and a force to be reckoned with. He’s managed to conquer entire kingdoms (and even the universe at times), with magic being a key part of his arsenal. Bowser is a powerful character in his own right, and despite his frequent failures, he’s proven to be resourceful and resilient. Under his shell, he’s built an empire and pulled off some truly amazing feats, often holding his own in battles that rival or even surpass Eggman’s efforts.
Not to mention bowser isn’t completely full of himself, he doesn’t think he’s better than Mario he just thinks he can get better than Mario
I knew it should have been Eggman
So many forget luigi’s mansion king boo is NOT a part of bowsers army
The one A PART does NOT have the powers of king boo from luigi’s mansion and WOULD not be a match for infinite in anyway.
They even got the WRONG phantom ruby as eggman has the REAL one infinite has the COPY
This death battle also lowballs eggmans feats and act like Sage can’t pilot eggmans other mechs
Now i’m not saying eggman WINS
I’m saying they lowballed him+ messed up a ton of characters
They ALSO kept the 60 second super form rule when thats been proven wrong
A super form can canonically last 3-4 days as shown in a cutscene nothing says neo metal cant do the same.
Also forgot to add they completely ignored metal overlord and never mentioned it when its a wincon.
@@BoughtCanoe Metal overlord requires biodata (in IDW) and I wouldn’t exactly call it a wincon.. and they also didn’t keep the 60 second super form rule it’s more so them interpreting how super neo metal in IDW was depowered , which I do disagree with.
@ Ah, thanks for the info! Much appreciated
@@ひきこもりi Metal overlord is stronger than super neo metal, who was very much a match for the grand star. The biodata could have been pre-gathered and copied, like them having the emeralds and for some reason not having the damn master emerald.
@@d22268 Metal overlord isn't necessarily stronger, but just different. But the biodata is an issue because kamek can get rid of it with chance time
My problem with this video is the wonder flower vs phantom ruby where you boil it down to both manipulating reality which is a weird point as these have different levels of manipulation
One manipulates the senses and the other actually manipulates reality
@Squifflifting honestly man, Bowser could've just used transmutation magic to turn metal into a say, a frog or straight up repower the chaos emeralds, straight up disabling Eggman in his entirety
@@creepergod3692 nah chaos energy in geberal should just counter that
@xigabrelless1980 That's not an argument. Bowser's transmutation has consistently shown bullshit powers. And again, what is stopping Bowelser or Kamek from just turning the chaos emeralds into something else like say, dust? They have never shown any kind of resistance to that sort of magic, especially taking into consideration that Dark Gaia straight up DEPOWERED THEM. Bowser's magic is leagues above that level of power comparatively
@@xigabrelless1980 and before you bring up the Master Emerald, Eggman doesn't have access to it
My issue with this death battle: Why tf did eggman not use the time stones or empower his army with the master emerald? Idk if it’s possible that Boswer used that star as Fury Boswer(correct me if I’m wrong) Imagine the Time eater with the time stones or infinite! I would have been crazy if eggman held onto that fake chaos emerald to get away from Boswers last ditch effort or summon the shadow androids. I’m not salty or anything, eggman’s army arrangement fucked Jim up imma be honest.
No, you're right. He did use the star as Fury Bowser.
They explain it in the Death Battle: If Eggman got more, they would have to be fair and give Bowser more of his endgame items too. But if they did they, the DB would either be a tie or Eggman would still lose, depending on who gets what items.
@@MindForgedManacle Yeah I agree, this death battle has the most crazy what if scenarios and it turns out he loses most of them, I just felt like eggman didn’t have much back up options, same with Bowser, the Kooplings weren’t there (animation issues) nor I didn’t see his crazy airships and stuff. Eggman just failed to attack a big strong Koopa who didn’t even have prep time which makes this even more embrassing💀
Yah but then dreamy bowser which has existence erasure would be in the mix and it would
Snowball from there with more power ups to counter eggmans
@@MindForgedManacleyeah but shadow androids aren't endgame stuff.
This video makes a lot of sense
Good Video 👍
You did a good job on making corrections about Bowser vs Eggman from Death Battle, especially using their own logic. Even though I don't mind that Bowser won as I personally think the fight between them would end in a tie or could go either way, I do agree that Death Battle kind of did low ball Eggman even a little bit too much at times and they kind of did misinterpreted some things. Other than that, great video on making corrections using the Death Battle video 🌟
They also nerfed Bowser’s army a bit too. The rest of the Koopalings and Petey Piranha got left out of the fight. They both would wreck absolute havoc among Eggman’s forces not named Metal Sonic.
@topace1038 The Koopalings are alright and Pirana Planets are decent. However, even with them, they won't exactly get far against Eggman's Army. The Koopalings don't scale anywhere near Infinite's level as Infinite was stated by Sega to be the strongest enemy Sonic has ever faced during the events of Sonic Forces, which this would scale Infinite above Solaris, who was an omnipresent and super-dimensional being that would've been capable of destroying the entire Sonic Cosmology with ease if he hadn't been defeated as well as the Time Eater that scales a bit above Solaris as well. Which, we also have to take into consideration the fact that Eggman regularly builds things that are constantly stated to be the most greatest creations he's ever made even after he's made machinery and mechs that can transcend dimensionality, which even some the robots from Sonic 06, who were just regular badniks in the Sonic 06 gameplay were stated to be the greatest creations that Eggman has made at the time, then Eggman's Egg Dragoon at the time of Sonic Unleashed was stated to be Eggman's greatest creation after that along with Eggman's Egg Dragoon being able to keep up with Sonic during Sonic Generations even in speed along with Metal Sonic being stated to be Eggman's greatest creation in Sonic Generations, which Infinite is then stated to be Sonic's greatest threat at the time of Sonic Forces, which means Infinite scales above all of those threats Sonic has faced in the past, which Eggman ended up surpassing Infinite's level at the end of Sonic Forces with his new Death Egg Robot that was empowered by the Phantom Ruby that Eggman had in his Arsenal. Reason why I mention this is because Death Battle didn't even touch on those subjects or even mention any of them. Even though the Koopalings weren't used, even though they were mentioned, they mostly went against their own words on a few things as the video here proves while also leaving a lot of things out on Eggman's side along with completely misinterpretating the Phantom Ruby's power and capabilities and underestimating Sage's abilities. I still think it would end in a tie or could go either way between Bowser and Eggman, but I just wanted to point some things out for you. They didn't use everything for Bowser, but they at least mentioned Bowser's capabilities and Army, even though I personally think Bowser scales a little bit higher than what even Death Battle suggests both by himself and with his army, but even then I still think that Eggman definitely got the most low balling and misinterpretations between him and Eggman. Just wanted to give you some insight on what I think at the very least.
@topace1038 By the way I don't mind if you skip some parts of my comment if you want because I know that my comments sometimes when it comes to power scaling and Vs Battle Debates may be a little too long due to the amount of things I want to point out that are a little bit hard to just summarize
They didn’t even mention a few troops and Trump cards that would’ve helped Eggman win
Eggman would win in every fight.
They did not mention how Eggman can travel through time, and banish anyone to the distant past/future. This, along with Sage's ability to run simulations, would give Eggman the upper hand long before the battle starts. This means Eggman would be aware of Bowser's every move, which means that the first thing Eggman would do as the battle starts is to get rid of Boo, which would give Infinte free reign to do whatever he wants. This also means that Eggman can just rewind time until ''Chance Time'' is in his favor, rather than Bowsers. It also means that Eggman can develop an EMP that implants chips in all of Bowser's minions to render Sage's abilities effective on them. etc etc...
They did not even mention Nightmare Eggman, who effectively has no weakness, while at the same time pulling out powers for Bowser that turn things into cardboard... The fact they even failed to mention Eggman's full potential and abilities means that the battle is rigged against him.
They mentioned everything you said. Also bowser can also time travel with the power of feeling like it
@@Warking19 They did mention Solaris, but funny how he did not play any part in the actual battle. He exists in the past, present, and future, and Bowser traveling as 1 instance in time would not be able to best Solaris. But... I am sure your response will be something along the lines of "Bowser can defeat Solaris with the power of cartoons and feeling like it" xD
@xord5293 Why would solaris be on eggmans team. It would be like giving bowser antasma or dimentio
@@Warking19 Isn't death battle each character on their best? Sonic 06's story shows Eggman basically gathering the ingredients to make Solaris, meaning that Eggman would have Solaris as a harnessed power when he is at his best.
I mean.. why would they give King Boo's loyalty to Bowser, when King Boo’s primary focus is only revenge against Luigi, not Bowser’s ambitions.
@xord5293 The second solaris got released he tried to kill eggman. King boo is an associate of bowser he just really hates luigi
i know im late to the party but i will say this
the multiplier of how much the grand stars have actually dont matter. as the chaos emeralds are repeatedly stated and shown to have infinite power. whereas the grandstars have no such statements
it doesnt matter
how many "grand stars" bowser has. as the power of them will ultimately not be able to reach a level of infinity like the chaos emeralds. so it actually doesn't matter because any amount of grand stars would < the chaos emeralds because the emeralds have infinite power whereas the grand stars don't. so the multiplier argument is irrelevant as the chaos emeralds having infinite power. will always infinitely trump what the grand stars have
people need to realize it doesn't matter how much of something you have. if its not infinite the amount will never be equal or stronger than infinity. even if you had millions. or billions of grand stars. they are still a finite energy source. whereas the chaos emeralds aren't
Death Battle also metioned that despite Sage's milions of simulations she was still wrong because Sonic proved her wrong.
Which is meaningless and controversial for Sonic fans.
I heard from other people that it was actually the amount of stuff that Bowser brought that overwhelmed her caucalations and that she is not a one way ticket to victory.
Wasn't it less of Sonic proving her wrong and more of not considering Sonic and Eggman working together?
@outoffr4me I mean for the fact that they said SONIC of ALL people proving her is meaningless because he is not an ordinary Sonic character like Big The Cat,
He is the Sonic The Hedgehog,
The main character of his own franchise and one guy capable of deafeating the mightiest of foes excluding Dark Enerjak.
Sonic proved her wrong because he is special and not ordinary.
Death Battle said in such a way that further justifies their bias for Mario and disregards Sonic importance in his own franchise.
@@TalExe666 wait why did you put Enerjak in there?
Death Battle likes to compose different versions of a character but they don't count Archie Sonic for Game Sonic (even though it's closer to the games then other versions of the character that they use)
@outoffr4me He is the only one that Sonic can never defeat,
Everyone and evertyhing else Sonic can defeat.
Think of it as an example not something what Death Battle is researching for.
@@TalExe666 A way to prove what you're talking about is to use Sonic and the 7 Rings. The story book was supposed to end with Sonic dying but he didn't. It's proof that he can defy destiny and fate itself.
One idea I had for how Eggman could win using DB's own logic, was since there's more than one phantom ruby prototype, once king boo is out of the picture, couldn't eggman use multiple phantom rubies to mess with bowser by creating a muti-layered reality to keep him busy while sage and Metal.sonic take out biwser's supporting forces, then take on bowser when he's alone?
((Probably unlikely, but it seemed like a possibility))
Eggman did win on Moro's alternate ending on Twitter yesterday.
Eggman was able to fire the laser again, sacrificing Orbot and cubot & the entire mushroom kingdom.
Leaving Dry Bowser in space before being blown to bits by the death egg.
So there's that.
I kind of thought that Eggman could have the phantom Ruby screw with Bowser’s power ups and resources. Like, make them think all the power ups disappeared or something.
Also, they said Kamek’s power copying shut down Metal Sonic’s copying… But shouldn’t it be more like he and Metal cancel each other out since Metal can copy him?
Bowser's army's do have other weapons, like throwing hammer, boomerring, fire ball, ice ball, scorcery and others.
Literally inconsequential here
Hold up didn't eggman have prep time he literally set up his whole army and a hologram sage could've told eggman all the simulations
I'm going to tell you this right now.. your argument fell apart RIGHT in the first few minutes..
The whole point of a Army is for them to fight both offensive AND defensively.
Arguing that eggmans army is more of Just "his weapon" in comparison does not make it any Better.. if anything it makes it worse..
Metal Sonic was HARD CARRYING the fight, Infinite could have probably done the same if it were not for Bowser having Kingboo on his side who is more or less the same kind of adversary as infinite.
Eggman sees his army as Disposable because they can be rebuilt after the fight.. HELL Saged used the badniks AS PROJECTILES
Bowser cares / LOVES about his army and they train to make sure they keep each other safe..
It's because of this eggman's force is 10 to deplete faster than Bowsers ever could .
Hell Bowser tanking the death egg beam to protect his army was a valid strategy in itself because he's army could bring him back with the dark magic.
"Arguing that eggmans army is more of Just "his weapon" in comparison does not make it any Better.. if anything it makes it worse"
you messed up right there he didnt argue it made it bettter he argued that the army catogory going to bowser doesnt make sense cause both of their army's are similiar cause friendship and trust dont matter in this fight. you cant prove eggmans army will deplete more than bowsers.
in other words the army category is useless.
even if u argue that it isnt useless eggmans army is stronger metal and sage and the robots is better than Jr and magikoopa and bowsers troop
I explained how the badniks are just mindless robots + eggman can replenish his own army? Am I missing something here?
@@avocadoiscool3717 in War Trust and Friendship helps A LOT what do you MEAN?
"Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys; look upon them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death."
Sun Tsu the Art of war
Hell just because something is metal and technology advanced does not equate to it Being better.. the Ewoks defeated the empire in return of the Jedi
Hell even in real life.. US lost the Vietnam war DESPITE them having More guns, more tanks and more bombs and napalm. The Vietnamese one thanks to their loyalty, cooperation, superior tactics and home field advantage
@@bombermanp978 im not one to powerscale personally, but
if trust and friendship matter so much, having an army that follows every command to the exact letter would be essentially the same as having perfect trust and friendship
also, the vietnam point is kinda weird considering Eggman would have superior tactics, loyalty, and cooperation (because he doesn't need to team up with anyone at all because it's just him)
personally don't see what you mean by this
Death battle at conpect was legit give every fighter 100% of their power so even eggman can have lots of his mechs and also have classic robotnik and nega eggman on side.
I hate whenever people say “oh metal sonic one shots bowser” and those same people never provide arguments for metal sonic countering/resisting being turned into cardboard or being possessed by king boo…or generally withstanding any of bowser’s haxes.
He's 👏 fast 😀
@@dondada3638 metal has resistace to exitsence erasure s bowser wishing him away wont do shit
@@SonicdxunleashedWhen has metal ever had resistance to existence erasure or wish manipulation
@FatalGod404 sonic generations time eater erased the timelines and metal Is shown to be fine
@ If your talking about the boss fight Metal was literally locked away into a boss room along with Shadow & Silver
Whats uh. Whats stopping bowser from just making his whole army bowser
Bowser may be able to make his army bigger, but so can Eggman. Bowser with his abilities and hax especially using the power source that provides him the ability of Reality Manipulation would be able to increase the size of his army while Eggman with the abilities and hax of his different mechs along with his different bases would be able to increase the size of his own army, which Eggman would definitely be able to increase the size of his army using the Phantom Ruby since it can create an army of complete copies of characters like Zavok, Chaos, Metal Sonic, and Shadow as well as Infinite himself when being used by both Infinite and Eggman himself. So both Bowser and Eggman can increase the size of their Army, so it isn't really an argument to give on either side, just something that should be taken into consideration for both characters.
I think bowser would win round 1 but eggman would win round 2 and 3.
Pal do you have any idea how strong Bowser really is?
It literally says in the video, "using their own logic". I argued using what THEY provided. Complain at deathbattle, not me
Its kinda weird that they skipped Metal overlord and madness in the death battle
I think it's just because they used Metal Overlord in 2 other fights, so they decided to go with Super Neo Metal this time. Just because he didn't appear in the animation doesn't mean he wasn't counted in the actual fight, when things like the Dream Stone and Time Eater were also counted for the battle but just weren't in the animation.
@cbfranco3307 yeah that's fair
if they give bowser chance time then they should give super metal overlord cause it also makes no sense
@@cbfranco3307Not only that, but Metal was also rogue (or was implied to be rogue in the Zero vs Metal Sonic Deathbattle) in the two Deathbattles and from what I remember, Metal Overlord is a form Metal achieves while he disobeys Eggman and betrays him, in Bowser vs Eggman, Eggman is commanding and controlling his Army, including Metal (Also Metal only went rogue in the Wily vs Eggman Deathbattle due to Wily's roboenza)
@@Serious5GamingS5G No, not really. Yes, in Sonic Heroes, Metal Overlord went rogue, but in the IDW comics Metal went Metal Overlord and was still working for Eggman because Eggman "took away my rebellious side" as he said when he was Neo Metal Sonic. So yeah he could have went Metal Overlord in the fight just fine.
If they'll give kamek chance time.
Then give metal sonic the ability to shapeshift and give eggman nega eggman.
It doesn't matter who won, Eggman will always be better.
True
Idk about that, but I guess
@@raveyboi9331tbf i had no idea who to cheer for because I love em both
Cope. Bowser sells better, is more iconic, and mogs.
@davidc. It's not Bowser that sells better. It's The mario franchise itself.
Mogs mean man of gods which I don't think Bowser is at all. He's a king..
Iconic? That's subjective & debatable all things considering as some believe Mario is more Iconic than Sonic or Sonic is more Iconic than Mario.
I like Eggman more in terms of character & think he's funnier but that's just me.
To put it simply, you're misunderstanding like every point.
The army point DB made is important because Eggman isn't always right, and in fact often loses because he was wrong about something (usually Sonic's capabilities, or who he works with). If he's wrong, all the badniks that do exactly as ordered can't compensate for his shortcomings.
Contrast this with Bowser, and specifically compare their "generals" so to speak. Their best members. For Bowser, it's King Boo, Kamek and Jr (and the Koopalings, if they were included). King Boo, for one, is a very informal member of the Koopa Troop. We only see him take orders from Bowser once I think (in Paper Jam) and otherwise operates on his own entirely (which the CB shows very well). But he is like the perfect counter for the Phantom Ruby, being a master illusionist mage himself and able to actually warp an entire dimension. He doesn't need Bowser to explain what to do, or when to do it, or why. He's completely independent, if allied.
The same goes for Kamek. He's very loyal to Bowser, but he plays a support role for Bowser in the cases where Bower himself fails (or his minions fail), usually by gigantifying them or blasting away Mario (Galaxy 1). The only person that fits this role for Eggman is Sage. There's no real synergy though, she's just taking the same role as Eggman, with the assumption that she will have the total foresight that no one under her could have or account for with specialized abilities and thoughts.
Trump cards are not powers, and to claim they are is utterly stupid. Trump cards here exclusively refers to endgame macguffins/superweapons that amplify what the user can do. Like, the Time Stone is Doctor Strange's trump card in the MCU, while his powers are just his spells. He always has access to his spells as a sorcerer, but he obviously doesn't always have the Time Stone. What counts as a trump card changes depending on what's being considered, but no one's going to consider a VS where the character lacks all their powers. It's pointless. How is this confusing? Eggman doesn't always have every endgame item or deity at his beck and call.
You made some good points. However, there a couple of corrections that have to be made. King Boo can't counter the Phantom Ruby, because the only thing that can counter the Phantom Ruby is the Phantom Ruby itself or other Phantom Rubies and Phantom Ruby prototypes. Which that's how the Avatar in Sonic Forces was able to counter and not be effected by the Phantom Ruby's power. Other than that, if you don't have another Phantom Ruby or Phantom Ruby prototype, then you're getting effected by the capabilities of the Phantom Ruby at least in some way shape or form bare minimum. Now, King Boo does have similar capabilities compared to Infinite and I would say it would be an interesting fight. However, King Boo doesn't exactly scale close to Infinite's full power. Another correction is that when it comes to both Eggman's Powers and Trump Cards, they are different, but both categories should be a tie since Death Battle themselves admit that it would be a tie for Trump Cards and Eggman has mechs and machinery that have either similar or exactly the same type of abilities that Bowser has, even though Bowser and Eggman also each have their own unique abilities, to me at least, it should still be a tie between the two as they both can do similar things and have the same capabilities along with a few of their own unique capabilities. Those were just a couple corrections I'd like to point out, but so far, everything else, you're pretty much on point.
Trump cards each have their own individual powers, no? The time stone still has powers, no? Not always having it is irrelevant since DB are going to consider it as a part of the arsenal anyway, no? And I explained how the phantom ruby isn't really "casting illusions", no..? And Sage/Eggman don't serve the same role, she exists to make up for areas in which he lacks (helping him to overcome his ego and ally with sonic, as an example)
@@michaeldavila9715 Good points but your first is kind of an NLF (no limits fallacy)
also how does speed = strength?
Speed doesn't equal strength. But more or less coming from this video is that, according to Death Battle, Bowser and Eggman scale at the exact same tier and are on par with eachother in both Strength stat categories and Speed stat categories, but then Death Battle proceeds to give Physical Stats to Bowser, even though they said themselves that both Bowser and Eggman are equivalent in such a stat category that they provided. So in this video as it's only using Death Battle's own words and logic, it's basically saying that the Physical Stats category shouldn't have went to Bowser as Death Battle themselves said that Bowser and Eggman are equivalent in physical stats.
I say Intelligence would matter since Eggman is smart enough to create mechs to fight sonic and super sonic tank attacks from sonic and super sonic
@@Jstars234 doesn’t add anything to the fight. That just means his mechs scale to sonic, which we already know.
@ yeahbut he is smart enough to use the right tech to build machines that can fight and scale to sonic.
Idk why they didn’t have metal sonic copy bowsers bio-data, the bio data could have given eggman a advantage because metal sonic copying bowsers bio data which neutralize the battle of nutrition because metal would have all of bowsers powers.
Kamek
Yes that is a possibility but metal could have blitzed kamek before that happens because metal sonic is as fast as sonic
@Warking19 cool copy Kameks bio data aswell.
@rhysjonsmusic Cool how's he gonna do that when kamek already has turned off biodata.
@Warking19 well as the comment above mine pointed out Metal Sonic would likely blitz Kamek and copy the bio data before Kamek can use the magic.
He could also use Chaos energy to restore the Bio data absorption.
Go back in time to kill Kamek before it can do it.
I'm gonna debunk 1 factor of the army point, Metal Sonic & his copycat bullsh*t, Sage with supreme, and also infinite, the rest are obviously not Sentient but Eggman's army is overall smarter while Bowser's is just, mostly brain dead idiots & not as smart as the ones in Eggman's army
@@Tari_10_Editz they’re not necessarily idiots, in most adaptations they’re relatively competent, like any other form of foot solider. Their simplistic behaviour comes from the games
@ひきこもりi I'm using the games, so I'm still right
@ I mean from normal gameplay, which is dishonest because most gameplay is inaccurate to the actual lore of the games. They're clearly very competent in, for example, the mario & luigi games, but are limited to moving forwards and backwards in the platformers
@@ひきこもりi fair enough
@ひきこもりi but still, Eggman's army is more smarter & a bit more advanced
Abilities is like how many and how versitile the KIT is trump cards is taking about HAX
Do by using deathbattles logic you mean nitpick random points and reqord them to make them sound self-contradictory, thinking you maklde an argument when really it all false apart. This was the worst debunk I've seen yet.
Aren't all debunks nitpicks? And yeah I am nitpicking, nitpicking what I think didn't make sense. And I agreed with deathbattle 90% of the time in principle (e.g, they're equivalent in mechs/forms) but I disagreed with how the information was used (saying bowser has superior physical strength). And the second half of your sentence is largely your own opinion (which is fine..) but won't you back it up with an argument of your own?
@moonceIl Just as you want to call something that had no substance or any rebuttal for the points DB made a debunk, I'll call this my argument. Debunks are consise. It you're deliberately getting hung up on incidental details.
also heard somewhere they compared donkey kong to dark gaia... someone pull that clip for me i need to see it
@@somechupacabrawithinternet8866 They never did that. They compared yoshi to the death egg but not that
@@Warking19 someone said it was in sonic vs mario the new one......... if anyone sees that clip... send me
@@Warking19 In a black box in Mario vs Sonic 2018 they say:
"Scaling to Donkey Kong's moon punch makes Mario comparable to Dark Gaia"
Saying their armies don't matter is wild... Eggmans army has no Sentience and is controlled by one person thus them not really having any teamwork or strategy and they just swarm in hopes of winning with numbers and brute force which will only get them so far. plus Bowser could easily keep reviving any of the fallen in his army as a dry version of themselves. The only ones who attempted to help eggman directly was infinite, metal sonic and sage. once they were out the way (which Bowser could've easily just wished all 3 of them out of existence at any time) eggman was done for. metalsonic was the only real threat in eggmans army and bowser had multiple ways to deal with him. I think you are just salty that eggy lost.
Yeah
No strategy? Wth they are combat bots with combat AI, Sage and Eggman do the strategy and the soldiers execute their commands. The whole "Bowsers Army is loyal and thats why Bowsers army is better" makes no sense since both execute their commands, it was just Death Battle glazzing Bowser.
@@gustavowhite4349A good old Sonic fans being bias as always, it wasn’t just loyalty. The Koopa Troop constantly trained themselves and have multiple ways of working together. No to mention that all of them could use Mario Powers Up meant they were far more versatile than Eggman Empire. No to mention, most of Bowsers teammate could more easily changed the game of the fight, like King Boo ability to control the environment, Junior’s Paint and let’s not talk about how busted Kamel was with his abilities. Eggman only had Metal Sonic with his power and speed to keep up with the army but in any case Eggman’s army was cooked.
@@lop3938 Death Battle themselves said that Metal Sonic alone would solo Bowsers Army, most Power Ups for the troops are really not that significant, first of all for most of the power ups versions of the basic troops, Eggman has a robotic counter part for as an example for Ice Bros Eggman has ice Badniks from Ice Cap or for Fire Bros Eggman has fire Badniks. Kameks fodder speed and fodder strength would do shit against Metal Sonic, Infinite or even Sage. Death Battle themselves said that Eggmans Army has higher firepower, tf is a rock Koopa going to do against a whole ass rocket, if the fire power is so one sided teamwork and versatility aint doing shit, I wanna see how a few goombas and koopas will defeat with an Death Egg Robot who can shoot Lasers with the power of an atom bomb thanks to the power of teamwork and friendship. (Death Egg Robots are mass produced in Forces)
@@lop3938good old Mario fan, always throwing insults when someone disagree while also display the same bias they accuse Sonic fans of doing. Saying that Dr Eggman only has metal sonic is wild but typical for a Mario fan that likes to downplay everything from Sonic.
DB chooses who wins for views
The scaling is completely ridiculous. Bowser's Army should not even have a chance.
They definitely do stand a chance
@moonceIl What? How? There's no proof of scale.
Bro it was a Good fight Sonic fans be dbz fans when they lose
Well, Sonic takes a lot of inspiration from DBZ, makes sense their fans would be the same
I was just going to comment that lol
Infinite and Metal died, meanwhile Bowser's biggest loss was King Bob-Omb. Imagine if this was the other way around. Eggman won, Kamek lost a beam clash without any tension, the Koopalings ended to an E-2000 unit, and Eggman's biggest loss was a single Hard-Boiled Heavy. Morø cooked with the animation, but whoever made the storyboards he had to follow was clearly biased.
And let's not even get into who they chose as the researcher...
Wrong! Sonic characters researches get always get wrong anf we can’t just stand there and do nothing!
@@epiccarrot88 Bowser technically lost King Boo and Kamek. King Boo was out of the fight when Metal Sonic knocked off his crown and Kamek got one shot once he got hit. Metal Sonic did a lot of fighting before going out and it took a combination of the Grand Star and Bowser's Fury form to take him out.
Metal sonic alone would beat the hell out of bowser
I agree! but this is using their own logic
@moonceIl yeah unfortunately
Wow. Using Death Battle's own logic against them. Someone share this!
literally mad cause bad
King of the koopas stays winning!
I was more confused if anything, I don't know if you could tell by the tone of my voice.. but cool I guess have fun
All this just for Goku to solo, Inshallah.
ummm hi?
hes getting his cheeks clapped by both of them
bowser and eggman eclipse him not gonna lie
Death Battle ALready Debunked Most Of Your Claims!
Yeah sounds like cope. To quote the king :”shut up nerd!” 😑
@@RadioEggMelonNeighbor Ok and? Let the animator do his thing and just enjoy the fight for what it is you freaking m@nchildren. I've seen at least 6 "debunk" videos in just the first week of this fight being out. The salt from you sonic fans are real.
Death battle made it clear in their analysis that they decided the fight based on who has more catergories edged out over the other. Given a different scenario of course Eggman could win.
I don't love Bowser or Eggman any less and enjoyed the fight regardless of who won so I don't see what the issue is with you sonic fans and twitter raving about it.
@@RadioEggMelonNeighbor Ok and? Let the animator do his thing and just enjoy the fight for what it is you freaking whiners. I've seen at least 6 "debunk" videos in just the first week of this fight being out. The salt from you sonic fans are real.
Death battle made it clear in their analysis that they decided the fight based on who has more catergories edged out over the other. Given a different scenario of course Eggman could win.
I don't love Bowser or Eggman any less and enjoyed the fight regardless of who won so I don't see what the issue is with you sonic fans and twitter raving about it.
@@cier5158There's like 99 percent of people praising the death battle video. If a few people want to make a debunk video that's there right. You have the right to just not watch. And I don't know why you bringing up "Sonic fans" as if there wasn't a billion angry Mario who butthurt over the first fight. There's actually way more Sonic fans praising this video yet too many dumb comments like this exist.
@@NebulaSon 1. I said I saw 6 videos I didn't say I watched all of them
2. the amount of sonic salt in ALL of the haters is burning my twitter feed rn. The Mario fans are at least polite
3. Kinda hard to not at least check the videos out when 7 of them show up on my recommended 24/7
@@cier5158 1)I don't believe there are six videos debunking death battle. It was tough for me to find two. Everybody keeps praising this death battle episode and acting like it's god greatest gift .
2) That's a lie. I went on Twitter to search up opinions. I tried to find one tweet who agreed that Dr Eggman was done dirty. Basically everyone including sonic fans(which they never get credit for) kept praising the video and some like you were complaining about imaginary sonic fans being butthurt even though I found non. Now that I finally found a debunk video and people are now angry that someone has a different opinion.
And you said that Mario fans were polite, which is just a load of bull. There's literally Mario fans in this comment section being rude as hell. Even your comment came off rude and disrespectful, despite the this UA-camr not saying anything mean. So I don't want to hear that BS
mario fans are mad
good
I mean this video is a cause of Sonic fans being mad that their character lost, so you can't really be talking 🤷♂️
@@Serious5GamingS5G I'm not mad? I just feel as if db's arguments were a little silly. I liked this deathbattle it's prob my 3rd favourite next to the mega man battle royale and uhhh frieza vs megatron
Na wrong get salty 😂
mkay kay