Even with 2 ppl in the game its still better to go for value in this spot only hands you lose against are 1010 jj qq and ak. Only preflop raiser could have this hands an a ton of hands in his range you still beat
I would have played the same way -- expecting, at worst, another deuce (which I would beat). But if they were BAD ENOUGH I would have checked, believing that I could in fact be against AK. I would also have checked if I had cause to believe (from knowing the player) that somebody could have hit a FH and was slow-playing. A lot of people LOVE to play the check-raise on the river with the nuts.
This is a tough one. Honestly shocked that straddle floated QJ on the flop to then fold river. I’m leaning towards value bet. I don’t buy QQ and JJ as hands for the HJ. Those hands are too vulnerable to overcards landing to risk slow playing the flop. So I’m really only worried about AK (mostly spades) and TT.
I’m not at all surprised that the straddle could have QJ on the flop. Hero’s flop bet was less than 1/3, so Straddle could think that turning a Q or J would make his hand best. I think at least 50% of all live players would call with QJ in that spot.
@@supersmoo7377it doesn’t surprise me that someone would call the flop with that hand. What I’m shocked about is that someone would call the flop AND then fold river.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zjof course they can as new information comes in. Having someone behind overcalling 2 streets, including a large turn, and facing a triple barrel on this runout. What can QJ realistically beat? When they called flop bet they did not have all that information
Interesting comment about sizing on the turn. If you're betting smaller to keep 10 in the hand, do you have any bluffs here? Would love to hear a call about balancing value and bluffs with small sizing on turn and river.
Not against two people. JJ, QQ and AK basically shouldn't ever be here (I get that it was, but if he is playing that badly, he can have all sorts of garbage, too) and the straddle can't ever have a better hand besides maybe 9T with a backdoor if he's going to play QJ like this.
Actually there being two people makes it better of a spot to check back, because there are more chances that you’re beat. What if you were up against 4 villains on the river? You think that would be better for you to make a value bet with your holding?
@@supersmoo7377 except there aren't because of the hand you have. The straddle simply doesn't have you beat. Your odds of being beat are basically identical to what they'd be if the straddle isn't here, but your EV for betting goes way up when he's in because he gives you extra chances to get paid. Say you're 85% good against the HJ, then you're still 85% good against both, but if the HJ only pays you 20% of the time AND the straddle will pay off 10% of the time, your EV goes way up.
@@Jermo484 Like they said in the video, that a slow played set is a logical read. And against 2 opponents makes the value thin. There is nothing wrong with losing a little value on this hand. There are many other better spots to get max value. Being greedy or narrow minded can cause to loose money when it's unnecessary.
When they both checked OTT I thought AsKs/AsQd for a potential hand. This has been happening a lot recently. Likely these recs watched one too many videos of some vlogger floating and are misusing it. There are almost no 2xcc hands in their range unless the caller between is SUPER loose. TT is certainly a slowplay. Overpairs? No. Underpairs? Yes. AQss yes. Online would I bet this? Straddle super loose? Yes I would bet. LIve would I bet this? Depends on the timing and behavior patterns of the players involved even if the straddle was super loose. But specifically I would pay attention to the preflop raiser. And yes 100% 3b this hand preflop.
You're gonna lose a lot of money reraising this pre flop. $2000 deep. $35 open from the HJ. You make it $120 from the button and AK makes is $550. Unless the flop is terrible, the rest goes in shortly.
@@montezuma6962 Interesting, so are you proposing to 3b speculatively only when you can force the other player to a commitment of his stack through SPR putting the pressure on them? I understand what you are saying here. The opponent can 4b bluff and still fold preflop for that amount putting the pressure back on you.
Yeah people float everything these days even when the bet sizing isn't small or it's multiway or they're out of position. You can't get people to fold any pair, any gutter, any backdoor flush draw, any overs with a shred of backdoor equity anymore so A) you have to widen the hell out of your range for them on later streets, B) you should basically never slowplay anything but the most absurd ultra nuts and C) you can bet larger than you'd normally think.
It should be mandatory for CLP call ins that if you ever say that you cover the table, you automatically have to add that you always cover the table whenever you play.
In my card room, not a single player would fold AK [suited or not] to the post flop action and they would be calling almost any amount on the turn. Most of the time, they would bet the flop and call a raise. 😐
And I’d also argue that on the flop, when the straddle calls a small bet of 30 on the flop with QJ, I think at least 40-50% of live players would do the same thing. Bart, just because it seems egregious to you, doesn’t mean most players won’t play this way with 2 overs and 3 to a straight. Bart I know you think about it logically, but you have to consider that most low-stakes players don’t see it the same way.. they want to make hands.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj I did not intend to make it sound negative. It's a great thing live players call down so lightly. I'm just pointing out how Bart narrows down other players' ranges because he wouldn't play that way; meanwhile he has to remember that low-stakes live players will call down with looser ranges than he thinks.
People act like calling with a suited AK but button is incentived to bet on this board pretty wide I imagine because he has all the pairs that need protection, Tx, and some A high that need protection on this board. AK seems like a pretty decent defend especially against a small sizing and especially with backdoors. Once the turn comes and you get a combo draw in addition to your two overs, I don't think it's a bad call at all with the pot odds you have. Consider that TT would 3bet a decent amount from button and button should only really have A2 or maybe K2 And you shouldn't be afraid of boats or trips.
I know people are saying that HJ shouldn't have overpairs but I honestly can see JJ even though it should probably be betting or checkraising flop. HJ can check a lot in the middle and might just x/c flop after straddle calls (not saying it's a good play though). Obviously can have TT too. I still might have a hard time checking back here though it's definitely close.
You’d check JJ on the flop as the HJ? Why? On such a dry flop, hero will almost always check behind except when he has Tx which will call a bet anyway. Checking just allows overcards (of which there’s a lot when you hold JJ) the chance to get there for free. I could maybe see a check with AA but not JJ.
Maybe I’m just too used to bad poker, but I was not at all surprised by either float. After the flop I thought straddle most likely had either 89 or QJ, and after the turn thought QJ most likely. I was surprised that straddle folded river, though.
I would jam the turn. Make them pay dearly for their little adventure. This will: 1) generate cover for losing when jamming into nuts (sometimes that'll happen). 2) defer potential bad beat, and 3) generate larger revenue over the long run than betting small, keeping 'em in and then they either hit their hands on river or they do not pay a penny (once they missed).
You WOULD jam the turn. Players like you are afraid of monsters under the bed. If you were hero on the turn, you’d get both players to fold and you’d lose all the value. You only see the result, but STRD had only 2 outs on the river, and HJ had only 3 outs. If the river wasn’t a Q or J, hero would have made good money. But a player like you wouldn’t have made much.
@@supersmoo7377 _If the river wasn’t a Q or J, hero would have made good money_ IFs...if you just read my initial post more in depth, you'd see the rationale behind it. However, the IF did not happen this time. And there you are! (I mean: your comment)
@@supersmoo7377 _STRD had only 2 outs on the river, and HJ had only 3 outs_ , when you have a multiple opponents, then number of outs add up (5 outs total against H). (Case A) However, H does not know their outs, so: as played worst case scenario applies: a combo draw. (19+ outs). End of proof for hammering the turn. (Not necessarily jam, but overbet for sure 120% of pot size). . (Case B) if you still insist on the best case scenario (5 outs only), then consider how little you have a chance to get paid off at river! If they missed (which is most likely ), you get NOTHING, if they hit, you get NOTHING! So: it's a lose/lose scenario once you're on the river. End of proof. Thanks for brining your opinion along!
@@montezuma6962I mean cap doesn't mean you can't have more money on the table than that just the max buy-in😂. I've taken 100 to 2500 in a matter of 3 hours
I'd have been betting larger early. What hands call 40 on flop that don't call 60? This flop looks like the exact texture where someone is either calling or folding, virtually regardless of sizing. I doubt I'd have bet the river.
Lol, where I play a lot of the time it's a $1/2 game with a $5 voluntary (30% or so) straddle either utg or on the button and lot's of people open to like $30... even with no straddle, 25% of the opens will be 10-15x
Can anyone explain why QJ would float, and then fold once he gets one of the best runouts for his hand? Yes right fold in the end, but what was he hoping for? Back door straight or boat?
a CS has always reason to keep calling! They LOVE to draw and when they hit...boy, ohh boy! That runs they adrenalin high up! Adrenalin junkeys get excited! Once their adrenalin level goes down, then they have to call with junkey hands again. It's biology, don't blame them. I want to believe that QJ was hoping to hit top pair (as 2 overcards)?
I'd probably check back because nothing makes sense. I don't understand the play from the straddle at all. What was he beating before that he's not beating on the river? Only AK. He had no draws. And it's not like the evidence of hand strengths changed. Just very weird. He should have folded flop. On the turn I'd guess HJ has QQ-AA because TT/JJ would raise turn, TT might raise flop too.
Can we get a moratorium on callers who trip over themselves to insert a comment about covering the table or that their stack is 4-5x the buyin? Just give us the effective stack size. We do not care if hero or villain(s) are the effective stack. We do not care if you cover players not in the hand.
Absolutely. The strange thing about this hand is the caller loses. Usually, they say it's a $500 buy-in and they're been playing for 45 minutes and they have $2000 in front of them because they're running over the table again. And then the call consists of them either flopping the nuts or bluffing someone off a big pot. These are the same guys who tell all their friends they're crushing the 2/5 game, hoping that no-one sees them make another trip to the atm. 😁
@@CrAzYxLUCKY yeah but I need to pay 500dollars to call I could better be paying 500 to call a bluf than for this. Or he needs to do a pay per call I can give him 20$ I dont want the membership
This was a close decision in terms of betting or checking back river. What would you have done in this spot?
for sure check back with 2 ppl behind
Even with 2 ppl in the game its still better to go for value in this spot only hands you lose against are 1010 jj qq and ak. Only preflop raiser could have this hands an a ton of hands in his range you still beat
@@info7681 no way in hell both are checking calling with overpairs.
What I would not do is bet $300, because you are pot stuck if raised.
I would have played the same way -- expecting, at worst, another deuce (which I would beat). But if they were BAD ENOUGH I would have checked, believing that I could in fact be against AK. I would also have checked if I had cause to believe (from knowing the player) that somebody could have hit a FH and was slow-playing. A lot of people LOVE to play the check-raise on the river with the nuts.
epic thumbnail today bart
They get better every week 😂
These new thumbnails are awesome. Keep em coming Bart.
This is a tough one. Honestly shocked that straddle floated QJ on the flop to then fold river.
I’m leaning towards value bet. I don’t buy QQ and JJ as hands for the HJ. Those hands are too vulnerable to overcards landing to risk slow playing the flop. So I’m really only worried about AK (mostly spades) and TT.
I’m not at all surprised that the straddle could have QJ on the flop. Hero’s flop bet was less than 1/3, so Straddle could think that turning a Q or J would make his hand best. I think at least 50% of all live players would call with QJ in that spot.
@@supersmoo7377it doesn’t surprise me that someone would call the flop with that hand.
What I’m shocked about is that someone would call the flop AND then fold river.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zjof course they can as new information comes in. Having someone behind overcalling 2 streets, including a large turn, and facing a triple barrel on this runout. What can QJ realistically beat? When they called flop bet they did not have all that information
Interesting comment about sizing on the turn. If you're betting smaller to keep 10 in the hand, do you have any bluffs here? Would love to hear a call about balancing value and bluffs with small sizing on turn and river.
Eye hand it to you Bart, that thumbnail is funny
So many recent calls where the hero gets wrecked by villains playing absolutely horrific poker. Just atrocious every single street from both villains.
I'm checking the river in this spot. It's just so thin in my opinion.
Not against two people. JJ, QQ and AK basically shouldn't ever be here (I get that it was, but if he is playing that badly, he can have all sorts of garbage, too) and the straddle can't ever have a better hand besides maybe 9T with a backdoor if he's going to play QJ like this.
Actually there being two people makes it better of a spot to check back, because there are more chances that you’re beat. What if you were up against 4 villains on the river? You think that would be better for you to make a value bet with your holding?
@@supersmoo7377 except there aren't because of the hand you have. The straddle simply doesn't have you beat. Your odds of being beat are basically identical to what they'd be if the straddle isn't here, but your EV for betting goes way up when he's in because he gives you extra chances to get paid. Say you're 85% good against the HJ, then you're still 85% good against both, but if the HJ only pays you 20% of the time AND the straddle will pay off 10% of the time, your EV goes way up.
@@Jermo484
Like they said in the video, that a slow played set is a logical read. And against 2 opponents makes the value thin. There is nothing wrong with losing a little value on this hand. There are many other better spots to get max value. Being greedy or narrow minded can cause to loose money when it's unnecessary.
@@NefariousMinds the straddle doesn't have slow played sets.
When they both checked OTT I thought AsKs/AsQd for a potential hand. This has been happening a lot recently. Likely these recs watched one too many videos of some vlogger floating and are misusing it.
There are almost no 2xcc hands in their range unless the caller between is SUPER loose. TT is certainly a slowplay. Overpairs? No. Underpairs? Yes. AQss yes.
Online would I bet this? Straddle super loose? Yes I would bet.
LIve would I bet this? Depends on the timing and behavior patterns of the players involved even if the straddle was super loose. But specifically I would pay attention to the preflop raiser.
And yes 100% 3b this hand preflop.
You're gonna lose a lot of money reraising this pre flop. $2000 deep. $35 open from the HJ. You make it $120 from the button and AK makes is $550. Unless the flop is terrible, the rest goes in shortly.
@@montezuma6962 Interesting, so are you proposing to 3b speculatively only when you can force the other player to a commitment of his stack through SPR putting the pressure on them? I understand what you are saying here. The opponent can 4b bluff and still fold preflop for that amount putting the pressure back on you.
Yeah people float everything these days even when the bet sizing isn't small or it's multiway or they're out of position. You can't get people to fold any pair, any gutter, any backdoor flush draw, any overs with a shred of backdoor equity anymore so A) you have to widen the hell out of your range for them on later streets, B) you should basically never slowplay anything but the most absurd ultra nuts and C) you can bet larger than you'd normally think.
@@Jermo484 I never slowplay. That's crazy at low stakes.
It should be mandatory for CLP call ins that if you ever say that you cover the table, you automatically have to add that you always cover the table whenever you play.
In my card room, not a single player would fold AK [suited or not] to the post flop action and they would be calling almost any amount on the turn. Most of the time, they would bet the flop and call a raise. 😐
hammer the turn, then!! Let them do what they like: pay pain!
And I’d also argue that on the flop, when the straddle calls a small bet of 30 on the flop with QJ, I think at least 40-50% of live players would do the same thing. Bart, just because it seems egregious to you, doesn’t mean most players won’t play this way with 2 overs and 3 to a straight. Bart I know you think about it logically, but you have to consider that most low-stakes players don’t see it the same way.. they want to make hands.
You’re saying that like it’s a bad thing. If that’s the case you should be able to print money.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj I did not intend to make it sound negative. It's a great thing live players call down so lightly. I'm just pointing out how Bart narrows down other players' ranges because he wouldn't play that way; meanwhile he has to remember that low-stakes live players will call down with looser ranges than he thinks.
People act like calling with a suited AK but button is incentived to bet on this board pretty wide I imagine because he has all the pairs that need protection, Tx, and some A high that need protection on this board.
AK seems like a pretty decent defend especially against a small sizing and especially with backdoors. Once the turn comes and you get a combo draw in addition to your two overs, I don't think it's a bad call at all with the pot odds you have. Consider that TT would 3bet a decent amount from button and button should only really have A2 or maybe K2 And you shouldn't be afraid of boats or trips.
I know people are saying that HJ shouldn't have overpairs but I honestly can see JJ even though it should probably be betting or checkraising flop. HJ can check a lot in the middle and might just x/c flop after straddle calls (not saying it's a good play though). Obviously can have TT too. I still might have a hard time checking back here though it's definitely close.
You’d check JJ on the flop as the HJ? Why?
On such a dry flop, hero will almost always check behind except when he has Tx which will call a bet anyway.
Checking just allows overcards (of which there’s a lot when you hold JJ) the chance to get there for free. I could maybe see a check with AA but not JJ.
honestly I like checking 100 when I'm in the middle with everything. granted I play mostly online though so it is a little bit different.
Maybe I’m just too used to bad poker, but I was not at all surprised by either float. After the flop I thought straddle most likely had either 89 or QJ, and after the turn thought QJ most likely. I was surprised that straddle folded river, though.
I would jam the turn. Make them pay dearly for their little adventure. This will: 1) generate cover for losing when jamming into nuts (sometimes that'll happen). 2) defer potential bad beat, and 3) generate larger revenue over the long run than betting small, keeping 'em in and then they either hit their hands on river or they do not pay a penny (once they missed).
You WOULD jam the turn. Players like you are afraid of monsters under the bed. If you were hero on the turn, you’d get both players to fold and you’d lose all the value. You only see the result, but STRD had only 2 outs on the river, and HJ had only 3 outs. If the river wasn’t a Q or J, hero would have made good money. But a player like you wouldn’t have made much.
@@supersmoo7377 _If the river wasn’t a Q or J, hero would have made good money_
IFs...if you just read my initial post more in depth, you'd see the rationale behind it. However, the IF did not happen this time. And there you are! (I mean: your comment)
@@supersmoo7377 _STRD had only 2 outs on the river, and HJ had only 3 outs_ , when you have a multiple opponents, then number of outs add up (5 outs total against H).
(Case A) However, H does not know their outs, so: as played worst case scenario applies: a combo draw. (19+ outs). End of proof for hammering the turn. (Not necessarily jam, but overbet for sure 120% of pot size).
.
(Case B) if you still insist on the best case scenario (5 outs only), then consider how little you have a chance to get paid off at river! If they missed (which is most likely ), you get NOTHING, if they hit, you get NOTHING! So: it's a lose/lose scenario once you're on the river.
End of proof.
Thanks for brining your opinion along!
How is it $1965 effective going to the flop, if the straddle only has $1200 and HJ only $700?
because the guy covers everyone, don’t you know?
Bart: What's the effective stack?
Caller: I cover the table with $2000 [on a $500 cap]
Audience: Sure you do🤣
@@montezuma6962I mean cap doesn't mean you can't have more money on the table than that just the max buy-in😂. I've taken 100 to 2500 in a matter of 3 hours
Wow, this feels likely a Sacramento Poker hand if I’ve ever seen one.. specifically Capitol Casino!
I'd have been betting larger early. What hands call 40 on flop that don't call 60? This flop looks like the exact texture where someone is either calling or folding, virtually regardless of sizing. I doubt I'd have bet the river.
QJ might fold flop for 60 🤷🏻
Lol, where I play a lot of the time it's a $1/2 game with a $5 voluntary (30% or so) straddle either utg or on the button and lot's of people open to like $30... even with no straddle, 25% of the opens will be 10-15x
Where's this?
I think you play your hand just fine
Can anyone explain why QJ would float, and then fold once he gets one of the best runouts for his hand? Yes right fold in the end, but what was he hoping for? Back door straight or boat?
a CS has always reason to keep calling! They LOVE to draw and when they hit...boy, ohh boy! That runs they adrenalin high up! Adrenalin junkeys get excited! Once their adrenalin level goes down, then they have to call with junkey hands again. It's biology, don't blame them.
I want to believe that QJ was hoping to hit top pair (as 2 overcards)?
Very confusing check by the villain on the end. Hard to tell if it's brave or foolish of him. Did he fear a boat or did he know hero would bet?
Wouldn't have a Brunson been a possibility too?
If you start forcing yourself to consider every meme hand as possible V holdings you’re going to have a much harder time learning hand reading
I'd probably check back because nothing makes sense.
I don't understand the play from the straddle at all. What was he beating before that he's not beating on the river? Only AK. He had no draws. And it's not like the evidence of hand strengths changed. Just very weird. He should have folded flop.
On the turn I'd guess HJ has QQ-AA because TT/JJ would raise turn, TT might raise flop too.
I can see checking an over pair multi way. You assume someone else will bet.
I can’t imagine only being $500 deep and playing 5-10. Seems to be a lot of SPR of 1ish on every 3 or 4 bet pot.
There are plenty of JT, QT, and QJ that gets to the river.
You dontbwant to slow play your flop set you are doing fine player
Can we get a moratorium on callers who trip over themselves to insert a comment about covering the table or that their stack is 4-5x the buyin? Just give us the effective stack size. We do not care if hero or villain(s) are the effective stack. We do not care if you cover players not in the hand.
"i cover the table" 🤡
i literally can't stand people like this. its not relevant information, its an ego stroke.
Absolutely. The strange thing about this hand is the caller loses. Usually, they say it's a $500 buy-in and they're been playing for 45 minutes and they have $2000 in front of them because they're running over the table again. And then the call consists of them either flopping the nuts or bluffing someone off a big pot. These are the same guys who tell all their friends they're crushing the 2/5 game, hoping that no-one sees them make another trip to the atm. 😁
5/5/10 $500 max hah
Seems like a river check to me
I guess right on the turn!! AKSs
He can have 23 suited
I don't think the caller know what covering the table means haha
You lose to ace king which should of been folded
Why do you need to be premium member to call you? Do it for the community man
He runs a business too brother
Because he already gives away a shit load of free content via UA-cam
@@CrAzYxLUCKY yeah but I need to pay 500dollars to call I could better be paying 500 to call a bluf than for this. Or he needs to do a pay per call I can give him 20$ I dont want the membership
You dont have to be a member. And Definitely way cheaper than 500 a month to be one. Im a member myself it's less than 100 a month
You don't have to be a member