@@scoobiroobiroothat’s on the defense, Joe offense is averaging 30 points per game. Offense wins games, defense win championships. Plain and simple. That doesn’t take away what burrow has done on offense.
Bengals have the 29th ranked defense. They have the 30th ranked OFFENSIVE LINE! And the 30th ranked running game. Burrow is carrying this team kicking and screaming into the playoff race.
Nick Wright made a great point, this is literally how we do most things in life. “Hey this guys has 2 MVPs & it feels close, let’s give the MVP to the guy who hasn’t won 1 yet”. I know it’ll get a lot of pushback but this is true, long outside of Kindergarten it happens. Turns out most people just live their life that way
lol....i know right? sports is supposed to be the most meritocracy based profession out there crying out loud....some dude out there saying, "hey, it's my time to be a billionaire"
Many of the dynamics you find in kindergaten prepares you for real life, some of y'all just never figured that out. Keep pretending that what's "supposed" to happen is how real life works, and you keep getting dissapointed. The narrative exists, this is how awards like this work... it's how they've always worked. The idea that it's Josh's "turn" over Lamar is just a statement of fact.
First it was because they won't make the playoffs (which is reasonable) but now that could happen people wanna move the goal post lol. Imo if the bengals get in he should be the mvp
@marckusduverger9776 if burrow throws for 3 tds and like 200 yards next week he'd be the first qb to have 45 tds and 4500 yards and not win the mvp award. Its definitely unprecedented
@blqckjesus: I guess but wins matter, Drew Brees threw for 5000 yards 5 times & +4500 yards (8 times) & half the time the Saints record wasn’t good enough to get proper consideration for MVP or when he had enough wins their was surprisingly someone who could say they had a better season. So 1. Burrow’s record is just not good enough to break this precedent imo & 2. Lamar is having just as good of a season as Burrow & has a better record. When MVP is close you’re going to split hairs & this is a big one
It’s always mattered when it comes to MVP, always. No QB with more than 5 losses has won MVP, OPOY is the one where record doesn’t really matter much but MVP does. It’s stats + wins & narrative, also Burrow’s stats aren’t even really better than Lamar’s & he has more wins. I could see an argument if he was head & shoulders above EVERY MVP candidate but he’s not.
If they get the credit when they win and have a good record that means they should get criticized when they lose and have a bad record , qb is the most valuable asset on a NFL team so they get all the good publicity and bad .
Seasons of 30 ish TDs 15ish INT is not comparable to what Joe is doing. The one season where he put up similar numbers... the Saints were actually 13-3.
And what makes a player valuable? I'd say winning is a pretty significant part of that. If a player has amazing individual stats but those stats aren't helping his team win games consistently, how valuable can he even be?
The Bengals aren't paying 2 #1 WRs - Chase is on the last year of his rookie deal making $1M this year. They left TONS of cap space on the table this year, as they always do. They don't have cap issues impacting their defense...they have an ownership problem
The brother in this panel says Bengals are not good enough. Man I would love for them to get in and to see Bengals go to Super Bowl so his statement could make him look like an idiot
Surprised Jared Goff isnt a front runner for MVP. Hes 2nd in yards, 4th in touchdowns, and his team has been the best the entire season. If they win the 1 seed, i believe he should get it
@@iKrawwd You act like Lamarr has bad receivers, he has nearly the best in the league aside from Chase. He also doesnt have the 30th ranked defense and Oline. Burrow is putting up his numbers with the worst Oline in the NFL.
@@ManOfChaiTea Bro Zay Flowers isn't even a WR1 on other teams. He's benefiting from there being a Henry & a Lamar on the field. No one in the league considers "Zay Flowers" a WR1 or Bateman.
That a guy that is allegedly an analyst says that the Bengals would have won 0 games with another QB in a team that has both Jamarr Chase and Tee Higgins is just absurd. Allen, Mahomes, Lamar can all win equal or more than 8 games. And a lot of other QBs would also be close. Of course, if the scenario is Burrow disappears and the play their back up of course, but the argument should compare him with the others in order to be fair
burrow behind 30th ranked o line one of the worst, ben getting sacked way more than any QB in the last 4 years because of the o line, got a questionable coaching staff,run game is ranked like below 25th in the league, burrow definitely is the mvp... not to mention bengals got a back up kicker missing half the kicks
Can the Bengals win without him? They've barely been able to win with him with his heroic acts to compensate for having a horrible coach. Which other candidates can say that?
@kevonsidek9737 hahaha this is a funny take. Put Lamar on there and he gets broken easily. Put Allen on there and they win at most 5 games. Put manholes on there and he throws 2 picks on average then Bengals win maybe 2 games
@@austinadams7120if lamar was on the bengals they would have at least 11 wins. He would revitalize the run game and make higgins and chase even more dangerous.
One thing I've learned in all of these debates is that we need to strip Joe Montana and Steve Young of their HOF credentials for playing with 2 great WRs and being successful.
players knows better than all of us they know even better than coaches, but people will still think their opinions matter more than the actual players facts
Joe has lost 4 games scoring over 30. Dak literally gets blown out and then in the 4th quarter with the game out of reach puts up great stats and lose.
@@jayharris2918DJ Reader, Awuzie, Dax Hill season ending injury, DJ Turner ll season ending injury, Logan Wilson and Sam Hubbard battling injuries for the entire season, Cam Taylor Britt disaster year. I honestly believe they were cursed before the season started.
burrow behind 30th ranked o line one of the worst, ben getting sacked way more than any QB in the last 4 years because of the o line, got a questionable coaching staff,run game is ranked like below 25th in the league, burrow definitely is the mvp... not to mention bengals got a back up kicker missing half the kicks
Dude lamar has a great receiver core, far better defense and a massively better oline. Bengals D and Oline are literally the worst in the league and hes putting up better numbers than the rest.
Here is a thought. If the Bengals had a better defense and a better record, would Burrow's numbers be where they are now? He wouldn't need to be superman to get them a win.
@@schwarzmann1all their games have been one score and shootouts they rarely trailed all year and I went to almost all their games being a season ticket holder
lamar and josh's numbers are better and they are on winning teams. so I don't really get the point. would burrow have to do as much if his team was better? no, but on the flip side lamar and josh would have to do more if their team was worse...and they'd have even better numbers.
He has 3 more pass TDs and more interceptions than Lamar with a much much better wide receiver core, and none of Lamars rushing stats to go along with it…this is crazy..if it’s gonna be a qb it’s Lamar or Allen period
Its neither because other QBs won the game more....Thats why Lamar won last year while 4 QBs had better stats. Lamar fans this year are walking hypocrites.
by a missed field goal. Also Burrow has the worst Oline in the league and worst defense. Lamarr has a complete team including top 5 receivers. Burrow also has the most passing yards and TD passes.
He can win over Allen, but neither should be winning over the actual MVP, the guy who has beaten them both this year and has better stats than both, Lamar Jackson.
@@ManOfChaiTeaboy please burrow through 159 more Times than Lamar if Lamar through the same attempts as Joe he would have 5000 yards by now and he’s 6-1 all time vs Joe burrow Lamar owns Joe stop talking pal
Yeah, lets not forget that burrow literally has the worst ranked Oilin and Defense in the league while making his stats. Meanwhile the other 2 have great Oiline and top ranked defense.
burrow behind 30th ranked o line one of the worst, ben getting sacked way more than any QB in the last 4 years because of the o line, got a questionable coaching staff,run game is ranked like below 25th in the league, burrow definitely is the mvp... not to mention bengals got a back up kicker missing half the kicks
He wouldn’t have the numbers. He is playing against prevent defenses more than the other QBs. And in passing situations not to mention 2 elite defenses. That’s why his numbers look good
Nope watches most of them. Burrow looks good on a clean pocket throwing in the vicinity of elite wide receivers. He can’t avoid pressure that elite qb. Avoid. Delusional Cincy fans don’t watch the rest of the nfl. How did your backup do last year. Looked pretty good throw to those elite weapons
You know everyone, and I mean everyone looks to QB, receivers, running backs to be MVP. What is MVP? Most Valuable Player. So what does the QB, receiver, and running back need to win MVP? The ball. Who starts evey play by getting the ball to the QB? The MVP most valuable position. The center. No play starts, and no stats are made if the center doesn't start the plays. Better give the center the credit they deserve.
The last 11 MVPs went to the QB on the #1 seed. Lamar won last year while 4 QBs had better stats than him. Lamar will not win MVP because he lost games he should have won. The only reason he was MVP last year, like basically all others was he won more games than anyone else. I understand their are fans that want to have their cake and eat it too. Thats what Lamar fans are. Lets forget he lost 5 games 2 to horrible teams. Goff didnt do that. Mahomes didnt do that. Darnold didnt do that. Thats why they are hosting throughout and Lamar will be traveling this year. He dropped the ball too much. His stats are great but wins, not so much. Wins matter most for MVP.
@@zeusonolympus123it went to Lamar last year bc no one had a great statistical season so the biggest factors became the success of the team and the eye test. Lamar looked like an MVP last year even if his stats didn't reflect MVP numbers. This year he looks like the MVP again but now his number reflects an MVP performance. What is different? Lamar has to do more this year bc his defense was so poor.
burrow behind 30th ranked o line one of the worst, ben getting sacked way more than any QB in the last 4 years because of the o line, got a questionable coaching staff,run game is ranked like below 25th in the league, burrow definitely is the mvp... not to mention bengals got a back up kicker missing half the kicks
No qb should be mvp with less than 10 wins and finishing 3rd in their own division lol those stats are inflated because he’s throwing the ball 50 times cuz the bengals are always in a shootout plus you have to account for them not having a running game which forces them to throw the ball every down
How do those points take away from Burrow? How does that not HELP Burrow's argument? Those are things Burrow cannot control and he is overcoming a lot of them
Opoy but not MVP. QB touches the ball almost every play. No one thinks the RB position is more valuable than the QB position so he is already at a huge disadvantage. Allen and Lamar are the only real options at MVP
I don't understand how someone can come to an 11 win team and be considered MVP. They are 25-9 the 2 seasons before Barkley. Anyone even suggesting him, is being completely biased.
Because he has a losing record vs winning teams...he is a wild card...he will be on the road in the playoffs. No MVP ever met that criteria. There you go.
What’s the actual criteria for MVP? If number of wins is a factor then there should be other factors like schedule difficulty, division difficulty, etc etc
They saying take burrow away and they win 0 games lol that statement is only true if you replace him with a trent dilfer qb lol mahomes, allen, and lamar would easily win 11 games and guarantee a playoff spot if you put them on the bengals
The Goff disrespect is out of control. He has a better QB rating than every QB in the league except for Action Jackson, and he has lead the Lions to the most wins inf franchise HISTORY. 1.Saquon Barkley 2. Jared Goff 3. Josh Allen 4 Lamar Jackson
The fact that it's a question blows my mind. It's not a stat award it's a who means the more to their team and no question it's allen. Everyone counted to bills out at the beginning of the season even not winning their division and allen made to team he had work all the way to the 2 seed
As a Bills fan I would like to see Josh win it but I'd rather win the SB of course. If Lamar got his 3rd that would be beast Mode no doubt because he is out of this world on the field. Barkley would be a fun MVP but should get offensive player of the year. If the Bengals make the playoffs then Joe should have a legitimate chance. Let's go Bills!
Argument for Allen winning over Lamar: He has a better record Argument for Burrow winning over Lamar and Allen: He has better numbers regardless of his teams record This is just a who else but Lamar competition at this point
joe doens't even have better numbers. I honestly don't know what's happening with the burrow convo. yeah he's a top 5 QB but he's not top 3 like lamar and josh. people are trying to force it. "he has a bad team and a bad o line" so did lamar at the beginning of the year, along with a bad defense as well. so did josh early in the year with not even a nuber 2 wide receiver and a banged up defense. like...those 2 are in a different class than burrow right now and it's ok. lamar and josh absolutely are the clear favorites. it sucks that barkley will probably break the record but won't win. I do wish there was a separate award for QBs so we can give shine to other positions.
Games in which Burrow didn't play his best or had a crucial mistake which led to the Bengals losing - Patriots - Wk 5 vs Ravens (threw an int in a game sealing drive) - Eagles - Wk 12Steelers (1 Int, 2 fumbles) Joe has had an exceptional season but lets not act like he's been perfect
Then by that you making his case for MVP, if he doesn't play good his team loses, if he plays light out and has the ball last the team wins... Sounds like MVP to me
I do think burrow should be somewhat considered for MVP, but no rn I'd give it to lamar. It has nothing to do with team record either. They made a good point about how you're gonna have more stats (yards, TDs, etc...) in general with a horrible defense and the best receiving duo in the league. Also I think its stupid to bring up a QBs defense when talking about MVP. A qb can't control how good their defense is whatsoever, so why should having a bad defense improve your chances to win MVP? That's like saying among 2 amazing chefs of similar skill, one cooks for a well-run restaurant with great waiters, service, etc.. , and the other cooks for a terrible restaurant. Chef A shouldn't be viewed as a less talented cook, just because Chef B is the one of the only good things about the terrible restaurant. And again, I think it's fair to give him a little consideration for MVP, but even though there's a lot of bad things about the Bengals offense, he also has one of the all-time great WR duos. And also I guarantee you the Bengals would get at least 1 win if they replaced Burrow with a league average QB. Yes they would obviously be worse, but to say they would have 0 wins is just straight up dumb. There's also so many other factors to consider, but I guess my overall point is that using a QBs defense as a reason in itself to argue for why a QB is more/less valuable doesn't make any sense, because a defense's scheme, coaching, players, etc... is the same no matter what QB is starting for the team
No he does't lol Lamar has almost 1000 rushing yards on the season, the offense is built through him. Plus the Ravens Oline is not as good as the lions in pass pro. Lamar makes it look good due to his ability to extend plays
Why are people acting like players haven’t won an MVP on a stacked roster before? Most MVP’s usually have really good rosters that’s why they’re in the MVP race lol because their team is winning. The fact that Lamar has a good roster now shouldn’t hurt him.
They need a qb on the best team award and a most valuable player to a team award. Problem solved. Nobody cares about mvp because it always goes to the qb on the best team. Would also allow for a non qb to win mvp.
I'm okay with one of the others winning the award but Joe Burrow absolutely needs to get votes. Like I do think the argument that if the Bengals had an average quarterback they wouldn't win any games is valid. Yeah the bills would probably still be around 8 or so wins and the Ravens would probably also still have a winning record considering their run game. But the Bangles without Joe Burrow? They would have not just lost but been blown out in almost every single game this year.
Higgins has missed half the season per usual... burrow has one elite weapon in chase with 0 offensive line 0 run game 0 defense... everyone is coping. Burrow the best
It is not Most Valuable Team, it is PLAYER, and it should be recognized despite the team's (defense) failures. If the Bengals had a better defense, they would be 14-2 right now.
You are thinking of Matt Hasselbeck 😂 Tim is his brother. Matt was good at football....Tim is only good as Football Analyst lol He was short career backup.
Not even in the NBA would a non playoff team someone would get mvp, OKC was the 8th seed and Russell won mvp because he did something never seen before to average a triple double
I have to agree with Dominique, Joe Burrow winning MVP with an 8-8 record would be unprecedented. Only players to win MVP with 6-7 losses are Barry Sanders & Adrian Peterson & they are running backs. Every QB to win MVP has had a maximum of 5 losses, as great as he’s been if Burrow wins MVP it’s going to make people retroactively look at past seasons & really scrutinize the criteria. Even if things have changed over time this one feels pretty solid to me
@zeusonolympus123: I didn’t realize that before, a bit odd because I would have thought it similar to the NBA where it’s usually a top 3 seed. I wonder if that’s coincidental or does it show how much they value winning. This is probably the first year in a long time that won’t be the case then, ofcourse unless Goff or Darnold are going to win MVP cause no chance they’re giving it to Mahomes. Stats + Record, & Narrative always made a lot of sense to me
If people feel it’s close I get it, Nick Wright made a comment about this being how most people operate in life “this is a close race & Lamar’s won 2 MVPs, let’s give it to the guy who hasn’t won one.” I get that it doesn’t necessarily feel like a sports mindset but if people genuinely feel it’s close then it sounds logical, now I get the case that you should give it to the person who is most deserving but like I said if it truly is that close of a race. I kind of get the talk
The nerve of the white guy saying Parsons thinks he’s has the right to say those things … 😒 he is giving his analytic sport views and is more efficient from him cause he’s on a field versus someone who look at numbers and try to study people and tell them how good they are or not because they can’t do it themselves smh foh
Last I checked it’s an MVP award player is the key word not team why are you considering the team performance in a MVP consideration that makes no sense
One if you gave it to someone on. Defense or OL. Then it would be a true MVP. But this is like the Heisman. A QB and may RB award. Only QB stats matter.
This is asinine, Jayden Daniels should definitely be considered the mvp over burrow. At least the Bengals have 2 wr1s with chase and higgins. Jayden Daniels has literally took a 4 win team to a certified playoff position. For me, the mvp race should be as follows. 1st - Barkley if he beats the running record 2nd - Josh Allen - like JD5, less weapons and had to single raise the level of play. 3rd - Jayden Daniels 4th - Lamar Jackson
Its not too late to take this down. Quit disrepecting lamar, who was 2-0 against burrow this season! Quit disrespecting saquon who might break a 40 year old record!
Josh Allen or Barkley both teams are top 2 in their conference. I can't even name Allen's wide recievers... Barkley is having a generational season... Lamar is DQ'd in my opinion, and this may be unfair, but I've seen dude be the MVP too then look like a subpar qb in the playoffs. It being a QB award is annoying honestly. Just make the best QB award if an average QB season can win it...Lamar last year.... vs Barkley or Jamar Chase literally having career seasons
7:45 last year when burrow got hurt jake browning came in and had a better winning percentage(4-3) than joe burrow(5-5) last season. and jake had similar numbers per game as burrow. I'm not saying burrow is average because I really like jake, but burrow has probably a top 2 receiving core...maybe the best actually. if burrow was in a different world as a passer let's say....5,400 yards and 55 TDs passing then yeah I'd say he gets it. but lamar and josh are doing what he's doing passing wise statistically and they also are big parts of their team's running game. To be honest burrow isn't really in the conversation, I'd have barkley over burrow.
I like Joe Burrow. I like him for MVP. However, MVP's most always come from winning teams. I see that ideology. A MVP leads their team to victory. Could a MVP just make their teams performance way above where they should be. Burrow will most likely not win this years NFL's most valuable player award. But him being considered says a lot about his future chances. Maybe not with Cincinnati but when he's forced to leave. I hope he can stay healthy!
Burrow is the literal definition of most valuable player. Hes having a historically good passing season and has to rely on a historically bad defense
He has great wr tho
Has 2 #1 receivers and still won't make the playoffs...... delusional
@@scoobiroobiroothat’s on the defense, Joe offense is averaging 30 points per game. Offense wins games, defense win championships. Plain and simple. That doesn’t take away what burrow has done on offense.
Dude they might not even make the playoffs
you are right my man... these casuals who are probably aged between the ages of 9-14 years old are mindless NPC's.
Bengals have the 29th ranked defense. They have the 30th ranked OFFENSIVE LINE! And the 30th ranked running game. Burrow is carrying this team kicking and screaming into the playoff race.
cant forget with the best WR in the league
They aren’t going to make the playoffs
Don’t forget to add that he have the best wr duo in the league lol lamar or josh doesn’t have receivers as skilled as those two
@ nah we not gonna do that Josh has a WR that has hall of fame credentials
@@deesee2051who???
“It’s Josh’s turn”?? We’re not in kindergarten anymore lmao
Nick Wright made a great point, this is literally how we do most things in life. “Hey this guys has 2 MVPs & it feels close, let’s give the MVP to the guy who hasn’t won 1 yet”. I know it’ll get a lot of pushback but this is true, long outside of Kindergarten it happens. Turns out most people just live their life that way
@@marckusduverger9776 Lamar chock Jackson.
lol....i know right? sports is supposed to be the most meritocracy based profession out there crying out loud....some dude out there saying, "hey, it's my time to be a billionaire"
That is stupid. But Josh has absolutely earned it this year and many times before. So get over it.
Many of the dynamics you find in kindergaten prepares you for real life, some of y'all just never figured that out. Keep pretending that what's "supposed" to happen is how real life works, and you keep getting dissapointed. The narrative exists, this is how awards like this work... it's how they've always worked. The idea that it's Josh's "turn" over Lamar is just a statement of fact.
he’s having a MVP season, Bengals just haven’t won enough games
First it was because they won't make the playoffs (which is reasonable) but now that could happen people wanna move the goal post lol.
Imo if the bengals get in he should be the mvp
@blqckjesus: MVP has never gone to a QB with so many losses though, every QB to win MVP has had a maximum of 5 losses. This would be unprecedented
@marckusduverger9776 if burrow throws for 3 tds and like 200 yards next week he'd be the first qb to have 45 tds and 4500 yards and not win the mvp award.
Its definitely unprecedented
@@blqckjesustrue, but the 3 extra losses are a big deal. Also there’s no way to put him over Lamar
@blqckjesus: I guess but wins matter, Drew Brees threw for 5000 yards 5 times & +4500 yards (8 times) & half the time the Saints record wasn’t good enough to get proper consideration for MVP or when he had enough wins their was surprisingly someone who could say they had a better season. So 1. Burrow’s record is just not good enough to break this precedent imo & 2. Lamar is having just as good of a season as Burrow & has a better record. When MVP is close you’re going to split hairs & this is a big one
I don’t think a team being good or bad should determine a single player award.
It’s always mattered when it comes to MVP, always. No QB with more than 5 losses has won MVP, OPOY is the one where record doesn’t really matter much but MVP does. It’s stats + wins & narrative, also Burrow’s stats aren’t even really better than Lamar’s & he has more wins. I could see an argument if he was head & shoulders above EVERY MVP candidate but he’s not.
If they get the credit when they win and have a good record that means they should get criticized when they lose and have a bad record , qb is the most valuable asset on a NFL team so they get all the good publicity and bad .
Winning is the most valuable thing. I feel like people have lost sight of that
The goal post moving for Joe burrow is crazy fukn work.
@@TW__________only for nfl cuz you don’t have to be higher seeds in nba
The best part of the end of the season is that the media will finally stop talking about the MVP.
Media is basically saying ANYONE BUT LAMAR, PLEASE
Please Lamar is more glazed than Mahomes
@@Daxie916pure bs
Lamar has two MVPs. I mean I kind of understand where they are coming from. Joe Burrow has outplayed any other QB.
@@Daxie916Hell to the no are you high or just slow Mahomes gets glazed 10 times more than Lamar
Was literally just coming to say this Lol
It’s “most valuable player”. Not “most valuable team”. Burrow should have this in the bag.
Bol might not even make the playoffs cause if that’s case LeBron should won more mvps then
By this logic Josh should have won this every year. But its dumb.
😂😂😂COPE HARDER😂😂😂
@ thanks for spending your new years commenting on my post. Loser 🥂
@@bstrick Bungals can watch the playoffs while on vacation! 🎉 🎉 🎉. Couldn’t even make the playoffs with all those weapons! Next year will be ugly 😂
Media acting like this is unprecedented. Dre Brees 2014-2016, elite seasons and Saints went 7-9.
Thank you!! You put it perfectly
And you don't think he should have gotten an MVP?
Media and the peanut gallery always have selective amnesia especially when it comes to given praise to the Bengals smh 🤦🏾
Seasons of 30 ish TDs 15ish INT is not comparable to what Joe is doing. The one season where he put up similar numbers... the Saints were actually 13-3.
@@TrendSettaRico I've been a bengals since 2000. This is the most hilarious post I've ever read. 🤣
It’s MVP (Most Valuable Player) not MVT (Most Valuable Team). Burrow is the MVP
And what makes a player valuable? I'd say winning is a pretty significant part of that.
If a player has amazing individual stats but those stats aren't helping his team win games consistently, how valuable can he even be?
Also, valuable doesn't equal best stats. They have an award for that, and it's offensive player of the year.
Don’t blame Burrow for a crappy defense. He’s the best player in the league. Period. End of story.
Nah
Lol
@@chrisgreene3868 name a better player
😂😂😂COPE HARDER CLOWN😂😂😂
@@danielbeckstedt767 mahomes, lamar, josh allen
"he who controls the printed page control's the thinking of the age"
💯
Right it's crazy... The Joe Burrow push is crazy 🧐
It's Allen or Lamar... Then maybe Saquon after
I’m surprised Greeny’s MVP Frontrunner isn’t Aaron Rodgers 💀
The Bengals aren't paying 2 #1 WRs - Chase is on the last year of his rookie deal making $1M this year. They left TONS of cap space on the table this year, as they always do. They don't have cap issues impacting their defense...they have an ownership problem
The brother in this panel says Bengals are not good enough. Man I would love for them to get in and to see Bengals go to Super Bowl so his statement could make him look like an idiot
Lol you wont have to worry about this scenario
@ your comment makes no sense
1-8 this year vs winning teams
@ cause of why genius??
@@baltru111 Can't blame it on defense all the time when Burrow throwing picks and fumbling the ball for go ahead touch downs
Surprised Jared Goff isnt a front runner for MVP. Hes 2nd in yards, 4th in touchdowns, and his team has been the best the entire season. If they win the 1 seed, i believe he should get it
There is literally no argument for Burrow being ahead of Lamar. If you think Lamar is behind Allen, then Burrow is at best 3rd
Take away Lamar as a running back... who leads the league in passing, tds, and qbr?
@@austinadams7120 Are you real? Lamar has like 39 Passing TDs + You're acting like Joe Burrow isn't mobile either what?
@@iKrawwdI mean Joe should be in the MVP race his team isn’t that good but he is but I think Josh might get it Lamar is right behind him
@@iKrawwd You act like Lamarr has bad receivers, he has nearly the best in the league aside from Chase. He also doesnt have the 30th ranked defense and Oline. Burrow is putting up his numbers with the worst Oline in the NFL.
@@ManOfChaiTea Bro Zay Flowers isn't even a WR1 on other teams. He's benefiting from there being a Henry & a Lamar on the field. No one in the league considers "Zay Flowers" a WR1 or Bateman.
That a guy that is allegedly an analyst says that the Bengals would have won 0 games with another QB in a team that has both Jamarr Chase and Tee Higgins is just absurd. Allen, Mahomes, Lamar can all win equal or more than 8 games. And a lot of other QBs would also be close. Of course, if the scenario is Burrow disappears and the play their back up of course, but the argument should compare him with the others in order to be fair
I don’t see the Bengals win many games
burrow behind 30th ranked o line one of the worst, ben getting sacked way more than any QB in the last 4 years because of the o line, got a questionable coaching staff,run game is ranked like below 25th in the league, burrow definitely is the mvp... not to mention bengals got a back up kicker missing half the kicks
I think people are forgetting what happened just this last season with jake browning.
Can the Bengals win without him? They've barely been able to win with him with his heroic acts to compensate for having a horrible coach. Which other candidates can say that?
Burrow ain’t no difference make you put Lamar , mahomes or Allen on the bengals they would easily have made the playoffs
@kevonsidek9737 hahaha this is a funny take. Put Lamar on there and he gets broken easily. Put Allen on there and they win at most 5 games. Put manholes on there and he throws 2 picks on average then Bengals win maybe 2 games
@@austinadams7120They literally were winning with Browning at QB just last year😆
And their defense was not much better then this year. Burrow supporters and moral victories go together like PB&J
@@austinadams7120if lamar was on the bengals they would have at least 11 wins. He would revitalize the run game and make higgins and chase even more dangerous.
One thing I've learned in all of these debates is that we need to strip Joe Montana and Steve Young of their HOF credentials for playing with 2 great WRs and being successful.
I mean...they had winning teams lol.
Haha. Great take. The fact that they had other people on there team that did their job and did it well means their accomplishment mean nothing.
I believe you put Lamar or Allen on the bengals and they are already eliminated from playoff contention and that says a lot
100% right.
"Joe Burrow is the BEST QB we faced & WE PLAYED LAMAR"
Mic drop
FROM ACTUAL PLAYERS, NOT TROLLS ONLINE OR BIASED MEDIA MEMBERS.
players knows better than all of us they know even better than coaches, but people will still think their opinions matter more than the actual players facts
Facts. A few QBs are better than Lamar
Funny how when dak was putting up numbers while losing people said it was empty calories yet burrow is a mvp candidate 😂😂 crazy how narratives switch
@@ShawnReed-ny1hd I said dak should’ve won it over Lamar but burrow is better then both
Dak never had these numbers
@@kaleb1858 Dak lost to the lions, 49ers, and Miami that year, Lamar spanked those teams that year, that's why the Cowboys are sorry u hater!
@@jilldailey1206 labum didn’t even have a total of 30 TD last year? QUIT EATING LABUM MEAT
Joe has lost 4 games scoring over 30. Dak literally gets blown out and then in the 4th quarter with the game out of reach puts up great stats and lose.
Didn’t Jake browning win 4 games last year with that same defense? It’s a stretch to say without Joe they wouldn’t have a win
no.... like half the defense is different this season from last season ...it's nothing like last season's defense lol duh
@ stop it who left outside of Jessie bates same Dline same linebackers
No. Check facts come back and learn ball before you speak.
@@jayharris2918DJ Reader, Awuzie, Dax Hill season ending injury, DJ Turner ll season ending injury, Logan Wilson and Sam Hubbard battling injuries for the entire season, Cam Taylor Britt disaster year. I honestly believe they were cursed before the season started.
@@XxihatepieXx Yeah as Bengals fan I knew our defense was gonna be weak this season but it got out of hand real fast, injuries did not help
This talk is a punch below the belt to Lamar Jackson
burrow behind 30th ranked o line one of the worst, ben getting sacked way more than any QB in the last 4 years because of the o line, got a questionable coaching staff,run game is ranked like below 25th in the league, burrow definitely is the mvp... not to mention bengals got a back up kicker missing half the kicks
as a matter of fact a missed kick is the only reason ravens even won that first game against the bengals lol duh
Dude lamar has a great receiver core, far better defense and a massively better oline. Bengals D and Oline are literally the worst in the league and hes putting up better numbers than the rest.
@ and burrow has two WR1 in Chase and Higgins, easily top 5. Lamar only Has Zay who is a slot WR. Bateman hasn’t lived up yet to a WR1.
Dominique always gasping for air lmao
“hi, I’m an expert and I don’t agree with someone whose played both of these qbs this season.”
Qbs should get there own award I’m tired of always seeing a QB winning it
Technically you could argue that MVP has become the QB Award & that OPOY is for the skill positions. Its mostly names now though
qbs are way more important than RBs get over it
Mica should play for the Bengals in 2025
Here is a thought. If the Bengals had a better defense and a better record, would Burrow's numbers be where they are now? He wouldn't need to be superman to get them a win.
Nobody actually wants to think that deep. Can't realise the reason Burrows numbers are so high is that they're almost always trailing in games
@@schwarzmann1all their games have been one score and shootouts they rarely trailed all year and I went to almost all their games being a season ticket holder
lamar and josh's numbers are better and they are on winning teams. so I don't really get the point. would burrow have to do as much if his team was better? no, but on the flip side lamar and josh would have to do more if their team was worse...and they'd have even better numbers.
He has 3 more pass TDs and more interceptions than Lamar with a much much better wide receiver core, and none of Lamars rushing stats to go along with it…this is crazy..if it’s gonna be a qb it’s Lamar or Allen period
Its neither because other QBs won the game more....Thats why Lamar won last year while 4 QBs had better stats. Lamar fans this year are walking hypocrites.
Aren’t both of Lamar’s WRs top 5 in separation? Let’s please stop pretending like Lamar is throwing to trash cans.
@@XxihatepieXxthank you like he ain’t got mark andrews , zay flowers , likely and Henry . I hate when folks do this
@@spiffyspiffsableyou can argue they are getting separation because Lamar and Henry cause them to be fearful of the run game
@@zeusonolympus123 Lamar fans can count. You cherry picking.
Darnold and Goff too
He loss to Lamar twice Lamar also beat Josh please stop being delusional
by a missed field goal. Also Burrow has the worst Oline in the league and worst defense. Lamarr has a complete team including top 5 receivers. Burrow also has the most passing yards and TD passes.
@@ManOfChaiTeaALMOST ONLY COUNTS IN HORSESHOES
@@ManOfChaiTeathrows the most in the nfl and a win is a win doesn’t matter how you win😂
3:52 You forgot bad run game and offensive line.
He can win over Allen, but neither should be winning over the actual MVP, the guy who has beaten them both this year and has better stats than both, Lamar Jackson.
Micah mad that they got blown out.
Jackson lost to raiders and browns though
Better? Last i checked Burrow has more yards passing and more TD passes. How about them stats....
@@ManOfChaiTeaboy please burrow through 159 more Times than Lamar if Lamar through the same attempts as Joe he would have 5000 yards by now and he’s 6-1 all time vs Joe burrow Lamar owns Joe stop talking pal
Saquon over everyone
Most Valuable PLAYER notnMost Valuable TEAM. His defense shouldn't have any weight on his chances to win a singular player award
It's a little bit easier to have that 8 game streak of 250 yards and 3 TDs when all you do is pass and have the best WR tandem in the league.
You sound bias. I am no Burrow fan, but what you mentioned has never been done before. Like ever.
@zeusonolympus123 yea what i mentioned with what Lamar is doing has never been done before
Yeah, lets not forget that burrow literally has the worst ranked Oilin and Defense in the league while making his stats. Meanwhile the other 2 have great Oiline and top ranked defense.
Burrow - Chase, Higgins
Lamar - Henry, Flowers, Andrew’s + Likely combo
Barkley - RB, Hurts, AJ, D Smith, Best oline
Allen - Decent O-line
It’s not close
burrow behind 30th ranked o line one of the worst, ben getting sacked way more than any QB in the last 4 years because of the o line, got a questionable coaching staff,run game is ranked like below 25th in the league, burrow definitely is the mvp... not to mention bengals got a back up kicker missing half the kicks
If Joe Burrow had an average defense, the Bengals would be undefeated.
or a kicker that didnt miss two game winning kicks.
He wouldn’t have the numbers. He is playing against prevent defenses more than the other QBs. And in passing situations not to mention 2 elite defenses. That’s why his numbers look good
@@rcl970 Just say you havent watched any Bengals games. It's easier.
Nope watches most of them. Burrow looks good on a clean pocket throwing in the vicinity of elite wide receivers. He can’t avoid pressure that elite qb. Avoid. Delusional Cincy fans don’t watch the rest of the nfl. How did your backup do last year. Looked pretty good throw to those elite weapons
@@rcl970 "He can’t avoid pressure that elite qb. Avoid." See this is exactly how I know you don't watch the games. LOL you're a joke with this take.
You know everyone, and I mean everyone looks to QB, receivers, running backs to be MVP. What is MVP? Most Valuable Player. So what does the QB, receiver, and running back need to win MVP? The ball. Who starts evey play by getting the ball to the QB? The MVP most valuable position. The center. No play starts, and no stats are made if the center doesn't start the plays. Better give the center the credit they deserve.
Any answer other than Lamar is ridiculous.
Larmar chock Jackson.
The last 11 MVPs went to the QB on the #1 seed. Lamar won last year while 4 QBs had better stats than him. Lamar will not win MVP because he lost games he should have won. The only reason he was MVP last year, like basically all others was he won more games than anyone else. I understand their are fans that want to have their cake and eat it too. Thats what Lamar fans are. Lets forget he lost 5 games 2 to horrible teams. Goff didnt do that. Mahomes didnt do that. Darnold didnt do that. Thats why they are hosting throughout and Lamar will be traveling this year. He dropped the ball too much. His stats are great but wins, not so much. Wins matter most for MVP.
@@zeusonolympus123it went to Lamar last year bc no one had a great statistical season so the biggest factors became the success of the team and the eye test. Lamar looked like an MVP last year even if his stats didn't reflect MVP numbers. This year he looks like the MVP again but now his number reflects an MVP performance. What is different? Lamar has to do more this year bc his defense was so poor.
burrow behind 30th ranked o line one of the worst, ben getting sacked way more than any QB in the last 4 years because of the o line, got a questionable coaching staff,run game is ranked like below 25th in the league, burrow definitely is the mvp... not to mention bengals got a back up kicker missing half the kicks
The Bengals make the playoffs, then Joe Burrow deserves MVP. It depends on your stats for MVP
No qb should be mvp with less than 10 wins and finishing 3rd in their own division lol those stats are inflated because he’s throwing the ball 50 times cuz the bengals are always in a shootout plus you have to account for them not having a running game which forces them to throw the ball every down
How do those points take away from Burrow? How does that not HELP Burrow's argument? Those are things Burrow cannot control and he is overcoming a lot of them
Well Joe Burrow is not alone on the field, the Bengals have a . 500 record... Joe Burrow is the reason why they even that close in the first place
Losing to the Patriots was his fault and that is why they may not get into the playoffs. The "he starts slow" narrative is BS. Be ready or not.
He is always coming off injuries that affects it
@@Mattmusic11111111 That is his problem. Train better. Stop taking sacks (which he has done since college).
@@Mattmusic11111111that’s his fault too
@@evinabney2569 Joe is trying to get injured sure say something even dumber that will be hard
It’s crazy how a RB that is on the verge of breaking a 40 year old record is not the frontrunner. Again just call this award a QB award!!🤦
I know it should be saquon. Coming from a bengals fan. Have burrow at second and saquon first
@@austinadams7120😂😂😂😂 just stop
Opoy but not MVP. QB touches the ball almost every play. No one thinks the RB position is more valuable than the QB position so he is already at a huge disadvantage. Allen and Lamar are the only real options at MVP
I don't understand how someone can come to an 11 win team and be considered MVP. They are 25-9 the 2 seasons before Barkley. Anyone even suggesting him, is being completely biased.
@@marcellusb5942 when was the last time you've seen a rusher break 2k yards?
I don't see how Jayden Daniels isn't in the discussion.
He not get over it lamar already did y’all dirty
You could make the argument based on impact from last season to this season. The definition of valuable is Jayden, So I understand your perspective
Offense rookie player of the year.
Because he has a losing record vs winning teams...he is a wild card...he will be on the road in the playoffs. No MVP ever met that criteria. There you go.
@@zeusonolympus123 Burrow might nor even make the playoffs and he's in the discussion
What’s the actual criteria for MVP? If number of wins is a factor then there should be other factors like schedule difficulty, division difficulty, etc etc
They saying take burrow away and they win 0 games lol that statement is only true if you replace him with a trent dilfer qb lol mahomes, allen, and lamar would easily win 11 games and guarantee a playoff spot if you put them on the bengals
The Goff disrespect is out of control. He has a better QB rating than every QB in the league except for Action Jackson, and he has lead the Lions to the most wins inf franchise HISTORY.
1.Saquon Barkley
2. Jared Goff
3. Josh Allen
4 Lamar Jackson
Yes he can , and without a doubt Joe Burrow should be the MVP, most valuable player periodt 💯🖤🧡🐅
Serious as in worth a mention? Sure. Serious as in a real chance to win it? No
The fact that it's a question blows my mind. It's not a stat award it's a who means the more to their team and no question it's allen. Everyone counted to bills out at the beginning of the season even not winning their division and allen made to team he had work all the way to the 2 seed
As a Bills fan I would like to see Josh win it but I'd rather win the SB of course. If Lamar got his 3rd that would be beast Mode no doubt because he is out of this world on the field. Barkley would be a fun MVP but should get offensive player of the year. If the Bengals make the playoffs then Joe should have a legitimate chance. Let's go Bills!
so beast mode, he cant win playoff games or go to a bowl with one of the best teams in the league.
ravens fans screaming MV3 just so the lamar era can seem worth it without a ring
Yeah because Josh Allen has a ring already right.?
@@zeusonolympus123 Exactly my point, so to his logic Josh Allen isn't worthy at all.
The Burrow haters coping is hilarious. They’ll spew any delusional nonsense to try to keep him down😂
An 8-8 qb is not the mvp.
Oh so its based on teams now?
@@ManOfChaiTeauhm yes. Why would u have a mvp not go to the playoffs
The NFL has had the MVP award twisted for many many years now. They don’t seem to understand the concept of the award MVP, Most Valuable Player 🤷🏻
Argument for Allen winning over Lamar: He has a better record
Argument for Burrow winning over Lamar and Allen: He has better numbers regardless of his teams record
This is just a who else but Lamar competition at this point
joe doens't even have better numbers. I honestly don't know what's happening with the burrow convo. yeah he's a top 5 QB but he's not top 3 like lamar and josh. people are trying to force it. "he has a bad team and a bad o line" so did lamar at the beginning of the year, along with a bad defense as well. so did josh early in the year with not even a nuber 2 wide receiver and a banged up defense. like...those 2 are in a different class than burrow right now and it's ok.
lamar and josh absolutely are the clear favorites. it sucks that barkley will probably break the record but won't win. I do wish there was a separate award for QBs so we can give shine to other positions.
To counter that one dude, Where are bills picking in the draft if Allen isn't there
Games in which Burrow didn't play his best or had a crucial mistake which led to the Bengals losing
- Patriots
- Wk 5 vs Ravens (threw an int in a game sealing drive)
- Eagles
- Wk 12Steelers (1 Int, 2 fumbles)
Joe has had an exceptional season but lets not act like he's been perfect
lets not pretend that hes not dealing with the worst Oline in the NFL, literally ranked 30th
Then by that you making his case for MVP, if he doesn't play good his team loses, if he plays light out and has the ball last the team wins... Sounds like MVP to me
I do think burrow should be somewhat considered for MVP, but no rn I'd give it to lamar. It has nothing to do with team record either. They made a good point about how you're gonna have more stats (yards, TDs, etc...) in general with a horrible defense and the best receiving duo in the league. Also I think its stupid to bring up a QBs defense when talking about MVP. A qb can't control how good their defense is whatsoever, so why should having a bad defense improve your chances to win MVP? That's like saying among 2 amazing chefs of similar skill, one cooks for a well-run restaurant with great waiters, service, etc.. , and the other cooks for a terrible restaurant. Chef A shouldn't be viewed as a less talented cook, just because Chef B is the one of the only good things about the terrible restaurant. And again, I think it's fair to give him a little consideration for MVP, but even though there's a lot of bad things about the Bengals offense, he also has one of the all-time great WR duos. And also I guarantee you the Bengals would get at least 1 win if they replaced Burrow with a league average QB. Yes they would obviously be worse, but to say they would have 0 wins is just straight up dumb. There's also so many other factors to consider, but I guess my overall point is that using a QBs defense as a reason in itself to argue for why a QB is more/less valuable doesn't make any sense, because a defense's scheme, coaching, players, etc... is the same no matter what QB is starting for the team
Anyone who has recently had a big game should be in the MVP conversation
Mainstream media overall dislikes cincinnati
Garbage team who can’t even get to the playoffs, no one cares 😂😂😂
Jared Goff takes the Ravens much further and has the receivers w better numbers if he replaces Lamar but we aint go talk about it
No he does't lol Lamar has almost 1000 rushing yards on the season, the offense is built through him. Plus the Ravens Oline is not as good as the lions in pass pro. Lamar makes it look good due to his ability to extend plays
Why are people acting like players haven’t won an MVP on a stacked roster before? Most MVP’s usually have really good rosters that’s why they’re in the MVP race lol because their team is winning. The fact that Lamar has a good roster now shouldn’t hurt him.
They need a qb on the best team award and a most valuable player to a team award. Problem solved. Nobody cares about mvp because it always goes to the qb on the best team. Would also allow for a non qb to win mvp.
Justice for Cooper Kupp’s MVP season, a few years back.
Give him Offensive Player of the Year, since his team is very good on offense.
I'm okay with one of the others winning the award but Joe Burrow absolutely needs to get votes. Like I do think the argument that if the Bengals had an average quarterback they wouldn't win any games is valid. Yeah the bills would probably still be around 8 or so wins and the Ravens would probably also still have a winning record considering their run game. But the Bangles without Joe Burrow? They would have not just lost but been blown out in almost every single game this year.
Higgins has missed half the season per usual... burrow has one elite weapon in chase with 0 offensive line 0 run game 0 defense... everyone is coping. Burrow the best
It is not Most Valuable Team, it is PLAYER, and it should be recognized despite the team's (defense) failures. If the Bengals had a better defense, they would be 14-2 right now.
Jared Goff should be the MVP 💪👍
Must have been nice to have shawn alexander as a RB so you didnt have to pass 500x a season 😂
You are thinking of Matt Hasselbeck 😂 Tim is his brother. Matt was good at football....Tim is only good as Football Analyst lol He was short career backup.
@cmdm828 my bad I was a little heated 😅 when I heard that crap.. Looked just like him
Not even in the NBA would a non playoff team someone would get mvp, OKC was the 8th seed and Russell won mvp because he did something never seen before to average a triple double
We should rename the award most valuable player on the best team..
The award is most valuable player and burrow is that
I have to agree with Dominique, Joe Burrow winning MVP with an 8-8 record would be unprecedented. Only players to win MVP with 6-7 losses are Barry Sanders & Adrian Peterson & they are running backs. Every QB to win MVP has had a maximum of 5 losses, as great as he’s been if Burrow wins MVP it’s going to make people retroactively look at past seasons & really scrutinize the criteria. Even if things have changed over time this one feels pretty solid to me
@zeusonolympus123: I didn’t realize that before, a bit odd because I would have thought it similar to the NBA where it’s usually a top 3 seed. I wonder if that’s coincidental or does it show how much they value winning. This is probably the first year in a long time that won’t be the case then, ofcourse unless Goff or Darnold are going to win MVP cause no chance they’re giving it to Mahomes. Stats + Record, & Narrative always made a lot of sense to me
How can you disagree? He said Joe is the best QB he's played against
Bruh now it’s Allen turn like I never heard this type of talk for a MVP award in my 20 years of watching
If people feel it’s close I get it, Nick Wright made a comment about this being how most people operate in life “this is a close race & Lamar’s won 2 MVPs, let’s give it to the guy who hasn’t won one.” I get that it doesn’t necessarily feel like a sports mindset but if people genuinely feel it’s close then it sounds logical, now I get the case that you should give it to the person who is most deserving but like I said if it truly is that close of a race. I kind of get the talk
Joe should be MVP. The "P" doesn't stand for playoffs.
A mvp that doesn’t go to the playoffs . Are you okay?
Burrow also has the 30th rated Oline getting hit all day and still delivers. Chase is great but he’s not competing for a triple crown with anyone else
If they judged the “award” for what it is ….individual stats then Burrow would 100% be MVP
I dont see why team record has any bearing on the MVP award. MVP is not a team award. Burrow clearly MVP.
Always using cowboys podcast materials for the 3am pre production whiteboard topics😂
Lamar doesn’t need another MVP! How many playoff games has he won?
The nerve of the white guy saying Parsons thinks he’s has the right to say those things … 😒 he is giving his analytic sport views and is more efficient from him cause he’s on a field versus someone who look at numbers and try to study people and tell them how good they are or not because they can’t do it themselves smh foh
Last I checked it’s an MVP award player is the key word not team why are you considering the team performance in a MVP consideration that makes no sense
how are they having better seasons when he leads in almost every stat?
4:33 graz, cincinnati is 6-6 in games where jake browning is the starter…
One if you gave it to someone on. Defense or OL. Then it would be a true MVP. But this is like the Heisman. A QB and may RB award. Only QB stats matter.
This is asinine, Jayden Daniels should definitely be considered the mvp over burrow. At least the Bengals have 2 wr1s with chase and higgins. Jayden Daniels has literally took a 4 win team to a certified playoff position. For me, the mvp race should be as follows.
1st - Barkley if he beats the running record
2nd - Josh Allen - like JD5, less weapons and had to single raise the level of play.
3rd - Jayden Daniels
4th - Lamar Jackson
Somebody tell me quick…how many games did the Bengals win Last year without Joe Burrow?
Its not too late to take this down. Quit disrepecting lamar, who was 2-0 against burrow this season! Quit disrespecting saquon who might break a 40 year old record!
A baseball writer giving his opinion on nfl MVP😂
Most valuable player to the team.. what would the bengals record be without joe.. I’ll let that sit right here and y’all think bout it
Josh Allen or Barkley both teams are top 2 in their conference. I can't even name Allen's wide recievers... Barkley is having a generational season... Lamar is DQ'd in my opinion, and this may be unfair, but I've seen dude be the MVP too then look like a subpar qb in the playoffs. It being a QB award is annoying honestly. Just make the best QB award if an average QB season can win it...Lamar last year.... vs Barkley or Jamar Chase literally having career seasons
7:45 last year when burrow got hurt jake browning came in and had a better winning percentage(4-3) than joe burrow(5-5) last season. and jake had similar numbers per game as burrow. I'm not saying burrow is average because I really like jake, but burrow has probably a top 2 receiving core...maybe the best actually. if burrow was in a different world as a passer let's say....5,400 yards and 55 TDs passing then yeah I'd say he gets it. but lamar and josh are doing what he's doing passing wise statistically and they also are big parts of their team's running game. To be honest burrow isn't really in the conversation, I'd have barkley over burrow.
I like Joe Burrow. I like him for MVP. However, MVP's most always come from winning teams. I see that ideology. A MVP leads their team to victory. Could a MVP just make their teams performance way above where they should be. Burrow will most likely not win this years NFL's most valuable player award. But him being considered says a lot about his future chances. Maybe not with Cincinnati but when he's forced to leave. I hope he can stay healthy!
Lamar is having one of the best individual season ever. Two more wins for Buffalo in a division/schedule 4x easier wont be enough.
MVP stands for most valuable player... that means if Burrow was not in the Bengals, they will be trash