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what compass do you recommend that can tell me precisely/accurately magnetic north? I read that the quality of compasses went dramatically down since 2010... are out there quality accurate ones that will stay accurate a life time or at least a few decades?
For someone who has been extensively trained on the proper use of a USGI Lensatic, calculating magnetic declination with every bearing and willing to carry a clinometer and protractor with them, then I might agree with you. However, for the person who has not, then their actual "survival" might hinge on having a base plate with a mirrored lid for more accurate sighting(and signaling for help), adjustable declination so they can get to where they are aiming on the map, etc etc. Personally, you have the right idea, by owning both and being trained, but too many people buy something like a Cammenga for the cool factor and "trusted by military", so hopefully they never get in trouble and don't really need it to stay alive.
@@greenman5255 hi, what compass do you recommend that can tell me precisely/accurately the direction of magnetic north? I read that the quality of compasses went dramatically down since 2010... are out there any quality accurate ones that will stay accurate for a life time or at least a few decades?
I found out about the store after I purchased a grid tool from Amazon. But I still need to get the 🧭 from your store. Seems like your price on the map tools are much better than others. Thanks!
As a member of an Oregon SAR unit, it is absolutely amazing the number of “outdoorsman” we run into that state they “never use a compass.....know this area like the back of my hand.” We usually meet them twice.
Hi, I just want a compass, preferably liquid free, that can show accurately the direction of magnetic north WORLDWIDE, that lasts preferably a lifetime. Does such a compass exist? Thank you
@@TwoPlusTwoEqualsFive32 I read a lot of reviews that they develop bubbles after days, weeks, months, or even come with a bubble... this is why I am asking around for a quality compass...
Great video brother! I had 20 years in Special Forces. If my pockets were not deep or I was not navigating all the time, I would buy a cheap base plate compass. I can navigate just as well with it. I also can drop and toss a baseplate and may get a scratch on it. However, I LOVE the mil spec lensetic because of the tritium (radiactive) glow in the dark. However, all too often, less experienced people make the gear selection above the skill set. Better a guy who can navigate than one with the best compass. When you learn to navigate well, the choice of compass will be minutia. Of course, the topic was which is better. Thanks for your great content!
I carry both, I'll use the base plate compass for map work then use the lenstatic for actual navigation. That uses the strongest features of each and almost removes the negatives. It also gives some redundancy so long as you don't keep both in the same pocket or pack.
" ...north-seeking end of the needle". Thanks for using the correct terminology! Many nav students assume that this end of the needle is the north pole of a magnet.
As I was sitting on my motorcycle looking at a map, a car stopped & asked if I was lost. I replied "Sure am, but if I wasn't lost I wouldn't be having any fun!"
Nice! I've used the Cammenga Lensatic for years turkey hunting in Oregon. Find a nice spot in a far clearing, write down the bearing, do a pace count and hang out in the brush, and go as far as you want, etc. Ive seen some UA-camrs talk down this compass for various reasons while I've been in hail, sleet, snow, altitude, desert, dust storms, open water and heavy bush and it has been spot on every time! Some folks say its hard to use on a map because of declination issues. Nope. Orient your map then turn map with compass on top, (easterly, western US or westerly, eastern US) to the required declination number. Your map is good to go as long as you don't move it. you've changed it from Magnetic north to True north. Remember, declination numbers change so you need to get current numbers for your area. Like your vids!
I began using a Silva Ranger in 1975 when I started cruising timber, and it’s the one I know and trust. I think that’s the way we are with a compass. The one we know becomes the one we trust.
Just reaching out to let you know that your compass and nav videos are some of the best on UA-cam. Recently been teaching a few friends who grew up on GPS how to work with a compass and I’ve been pointing them to your stuff to fill in the gaps. My take is that I carry both but prefer the lensatic for navigating and working on the move but the baseplate is great for planning at home or camp. Here in the highlands of Appalachia you don’t get a lot of long, straight, shots so the lensatic is great for traveling using a ton of waypoints with minimal deviation, or boxing around the occasional sheer mountain side. I’d be stoked if Cammenga made a version with a 1:24k scale to work just a little better with the USGS topo maps, but that’s a pipe dream since the volume would never match government sales.
Wow - I appreciate that! I think that would be awesome if they did too. I need to contact them again on some stuff, will see if I get any feedback or not.
Who in the hell could give any of this guy's videos a 'thumbs down'?? I don't get it. Anyway...I have both types. The baseplate is ideal for the map working, but the Cammenga is gonna' be more accurate in the field. Way, way tougher too. These Cammenga's are built like tanks. I basically treat mine as baseplate compass for the map and the lensatic compass for the field work. Works well for me.
Just last Spring I replaced the Cammenga lensatic compass that I’ve had since 1978 (with a new Cammenga). I have a compass in every bag, but my Cammenga is the one I use on every trip into the bush. Of course, Cammenga makes a fine baseplate compass too.
Good video. With modern Topo maps I’ve seen they have an enlarged declination scale at the bottom. You can lay the Lensatic along the declination angle and orient the map by turning the map and the compass until North is lined up on the compass. Then you can just take your bearing as you’ve adjusted for declination.
Even how cool the Cammenga looks and feels, a baseplate compass with sighting mirror is superior in terms of easiness to use and the multiuse of the mirror where you can check yourself (face, teeth etc) and use it for signaling with the help of the sun. As you mention, the built in protractor is a great advantge. The built in scale for declination is just perfect. But it’s just my opinion. Just make sure you have a compass that you know how to use.
Great video. I prefer the lensatic because it's pretty much a point and shoot kinda deal. If you hunt from a tree stand and you shoot a deer that disappears into a treeline it's easy just to shoot an azimuth,then climb down and know just where to start looking.Especially in Florida where it's usually pretty short visibility when you're on the ground.
That's perfectly true. I used to use it for the same reason as a boy digging ginseng. But, if you use it with a map, it's very easy to make a mistake over several miles if you don't adjust for declination properly. In your case a short distance isn't an issue.
Hi, I just want a compass, preferably liquid free, that can show accurately the direction of magnetic north WORLDWIDE, that lasts preferably a lifetime. Does such a compass exist? Thank you
Sorry my last comment turned to gibberish. For me, and I have never been in the military. But I grew up using a Silva Baseplate compass and used it in the BSA. However, On the CDT hiking for many months I only took and will take again when I return here in a few months my Camenga Lensatic compass. It is reliable, true and trustworthly and most importantly will hold up to the daily abuse. Thank you for the fine training videos.
Good video. I own both and use them both. Lensatic for my precise movement and spotting. My baseplate is always out for quick glances to keep me in the shed
On a cross country Bicycle ride in 2004, weight was a paramount issue. I knew I would need a compass for confirming highway choices and the peace-of-mind the right direction gives. I included my grandfather's WWII Lensatic and ended up using it three times over the 2462 miles trip. I am not a purest on many things, but despite the fact that it has sentimental value, I choose the trusty Military Lensatic every time.
I specifically have a Cammenga compass in my kit/belt. Also a Silva baseplate fluid filled type of compass in my pack. So, in essence I have both. My military training has been with the Cammenga and it is held near and dear. I find it ironic that in my profile picture, you will find that same Cammenga compass somewhere on my LBE. Airborne!
great video and your presentation is outstanding. I had my dad's prismatic compass from WWII that he used in the Pacific. it came in a leather case; with markings all around the sides of the brass base; don't know much about who made it and I gave it to my son who had 22 years in the army. He has my dad's map case & his maps of the different islands and Tokyo. His maps have penciled notes for his artillery batteries. Thank you and take care. The Woodlands, Texas
Sounds like the British made Francis Barker MK111 see a nice restoration here jpmoeller.com/2017/07/22/francis-barker-mkiii-prismatic-compass/ you may wish to tell your son to be careful as they are quite radioactive due to the old radium paints used for night illumination. They still make them and are still used by the British today - I have one they are called Francis Barker MK73 now - pretty much the same except they use safer tritium for the illumination. Probably the best handheld compass available anywhere.
I have an like both types. The advantage of the Camenga Lensatic, imo, is it can never develop a bubble. But can only be read to about 2.5˚. That being said, I have some Silva-Sweden compasses for 30+ years that have never developed a bubble. I've not found the same reliability in other base plate compasses. I find you kind of need to think in reverse when switching between using a lensatic to baseplate type compass when thinking about how to adjust for magnetic declination. Because of how the the degree / mils scale rotates with the magnetic north seeking pointer on the compass card on the lensatic, but the magnetic north pointing needle moves separately and independent from the degree scale ring on the base plate compasses. To keep from possibly becoming confused, I always account for it mentally, never using the built in mag declination adjustment even on compasses that have that feature. For magnetic declination I use an acronym of my own creation. Since I thought it up I probably remember it better. -- -- WAvES (West Add v East Subtract. [v represents an "angle"] Or more fully a phrase. "The Map WAvES to the Compass, and the Compass WAvES back to the Map". iow - Map to land WAvES. For 9˚ west declination, add 9˚ to the azimuth measured on the map to be set on the compass. But when taking a compass measured azimuth back to the map use WAvES back(wards) - the west 9˚ magnetic declination becomes subtracted from the compass measured azimuth, rather than added. To be the correct azimuth on the map to be measured with the protractor. Anyway, I've enjoyed many of you nav videos. And I like seeing how different manufacturers think about compass design features. Why let a GPS do your thinking for you? Which some research shows atrophies your mental mapping abilities.
Man, that’s such a great contribution to the conversation! I hope lots of people read it. A really good acronym in waVes as well! Stoked to hear from you and hope to continue the journey. Stoker
@@STOKERMATIC Thanks. I came up with WAvES because I think of electro-magnetic waves. And West Add & East Subtract , seemed a natural fit to the way I think. And I just found it a bit easier to remember than [ LARS, Left Add Right Subtract. Left being West and Right being East.] because I could fit WAvES in the phrase of the map and compass waving to and back to each other. To help remember the correct adjustment going from map to compass or compass to map, dependent on local magnetic declination east or west. However, one only needs to account for magnetic declination when using a compass & map together. If walking about without a map and only keeping track of how far you walked and the direction walked, it doesn't matter. I would add that my favorite base plate compass is the Silva 55-6400/360. An easy to use prismatic sighting compass with a prism inside the compass housing, 0.5˚ accuracy, with a handy base plate length of ~ 5 inches (126mm). Close the to length of the sides a protractor. I read somewhere NATO troops use the mills version. But they have become difficult to find at a reasonable price. I might add two handy thumb rules I try to keep in mind: A] 5km = ~ 3 miles (3.11 miles) Kind of handy to know if you use 5 bead pace counter. And know your pace count for 1 km & for 1 mile or 1/10th of those distances. I am comfortable converting between metric and imperial on paper, but I still think in imperial distances when walking about. Hey, I spent six years in the Navy, not the Army or Marines. B] An azimuth error of 1˚ = ~100 ft error off course at 1 mile. [ actually the error is about 92 feet, but "1˚/100 ft/ 1 mile" I find is easier to remember] People can calculate that for themselves to understand the thumb rule B , by one of at least two methods: 1] Tan = opposite/ adjacent (t=o/a, o = distance off course , a = 1 mile = 5280 ft. ) Rearranging the formula - > tan(1˚) * 5280 ft = 0.017455 * 5280 = 92.16 ft. 2] Think of a circle with radius of 1 mile (5280 ft) . The circumference, C = 2 * r * pi = 10560 ft * pi = 33,175.22 ft. And C/360˚ = 92.15 ft/ 1˚. Thus the thumb rule can be used to make a quick estimate that if you're off course by say 5˚ (due to sum of sighting errors + difficulty accurately walking the azimuth) at 1 mile you will miss the target by about 500 ft. ~ 167 yards, 1.67 football fields. That, I think, illustrates a few things: a compass with ~ 2.5˚ accuracy is ok, but sight as accurately as possible, walk to your destination as accurately as possible, use check points and handrails, as much as possible, keep check point distances short. However, if you are walking about in an area near the agonic line (where magnetic declination = 0) ignoring accounting for magnetic declination isn't a big deal if magnetic declination is less than about 4˚ east or west. The agonic line runs basically from north Michigan to western tip of Florida in contention USA. You will be a little off target, but not to far. Unless you really need extreme accuracy. [ of course if you think in metric, instead of miles and feet, the formulas 1 & 2 can be done with Km or meters. But the 1˚ / 100ft / 1 mile no longer works. But 1˚ error at 1 km works out to 1˚ / 1.75m / 1 km. A 5km walk with 5˚ error = ~ 44meters. Pretty close. < half the length of a football field. Keep doing the fun uploads.
Great overview comment!! Yet another way to remember declination and make the map speak compass language is "WEST" is best and "EAST" is least. So "WEST" declination on the Topo you would ADD degrees to the "TRUE" north to navigate in the field.
In the UK military to account for magnetic deviation we used "Mag to Grid = get rid" and "Grid to Mag = Add". The western part of the UK currently has (practically) zero deviation, so it's simple! At least for a year or two (until it moves East). We were always taught using Silva baseplate compasses.
Does this make sense? I heard something similar. Not sure who. Westerly declination: Grid to Mag (GI to Major) add Mag to Grid (Major to GI) subtract Easterly declination: Grid to Mag (General to Major) subtract Mag to Grid (Major to General) add
Great content. A protractor is not necessary to calculate grid azimuth on a Commenga compass. If you line up the white bezel line with the grid lines then calculate the numbers of clicks to meet the declination you are ready to rotate your body to put "red in the shed" and march on a magnetic course. Re: declination Rotate the bezel in the direction of the GM angle. Click left for westerly (negative), click right for Easterly (positive). 3 degrees per click. I am 16 West. 5 clicks to the left. I will be off 1 degree. No big deal for most of us. Heading back I aim off more than a degree. Usually 5. An orienteering compass is great to use due to the built in protractor and declination adjustment. They just do not last long. Having an "army" compass as back up is smart. I have a maptools protractor and also a super pliable half protractor in my nav kit. Thanks for the great content.
I use the Brunton Lensatic Compass "Military-Style Compass". Yes, it doesn't have either the phosphorus nor tritium, but it's tough and gets the job done. I had to buy it many years ago when I didn't have $80 to spend. Nonetheless, it serves the same purpose as many others. Plus, it's made in the U.S.A.
Used a Lensatic when in the army, nowt wrong with it. But I've been using my same Silva Expedition 4 regularly for FIFTY years -still no bubble; don't bother taking into account grid magnetic angle in the UK because the declination is minimal (
Every filled baseplate compass ive ever had all developed a bubble. Glad the day came i switched to Lensatic (Cammenga) compass. And ive learned to do map work without a protracter.
in my youth i had a old WWII compass that was rough but still workable. dad would drop me off at the front gate of most of the state parks here in OK. the only instructions given was " i'll see you at a place he'd point to on the map. dead reckoning was he taught me , steak &potato would be waiting for me to finish my trek. now i've got a lensatic made by " stocker&yale " inc. out of beverly , mass., dated aug. 30 '78 . i've had it since the early '80s, the tritium has long since died. i've revisited most of the state parks on my own. i've been catching your's ( and others )video on actually using the features of the lensatic compass.
True Lensatic Compass does not have declination adjustments. Baseboard compass are far better suited for recreational activities. But I still prefer Lensatic Compass bcoz I'm trained and have used it. Long story short, doesn't what compass you got but it's the usage knowledge that matters. Good Vid 😎👍
Great channel. I use a K&R Merridian pro and the Cammenga (for dark movement). The Cammenga is good but the K&R is more accurate. Both are excellent. There will never be a bubble in the K&R because of the thermoplastic they use for the capsule. So niether will bubble up. This is just my opinion but not having a sight on the compass is like a rifle without sights; especially for non-trail "bushwacking".
Cammenga 3H cost me 105.00 i just ordered one. Now i need a military protractor and 1:25,000 1:50,000 scale map hehe. Ive been watching and learning alot with your series and the more i see the Cammenga in action the more iam convinced its bombproof. It takes time getting used to the declination sayings depending where grid and magnetic north are and if you have east or west declination.. but i guess it comes in time and with alot of practice. Thanks for your series and experiences. It sure has helped even a 52 year old starting out.
I bought a Commenga compass. Very nice! I have a cheap baseplate compass, but it seems the commenga with its metallic housing, not effected as much from outside metallic objects like the plastic baseplate compass. Commenga far as I know, don't use fluid to stabilize the pointer in side as most compasses have. Still, very solid in its movement. The Commenga, big thumbs up from me!
I like to have both, one is for taking more accurate longer range bearings (lenstatic), but for short range bearings when traveling, especially in thick stuff, or when being within 3-5deg is sufficient I'm more than happy with a base plate. My Silva baseplate I inherited from my father is 45-50years old (he brought it for tramping about the time I was born)
I have found a base plate to be more useful. Lensmatic was what I grew up with but the base plate style seems easier to work with a map. Using it with a trekking pole gives me a steady base and I haven’t found loss of accuracy compared to the Lens.
Suunto mc2 for me, adjustable declination simplifies navigation so much it's hard to imagine living without it and map work is easier with a clear base plate. The Cammenega is a thing of exquisite beauty though and very functional too.
Totally agree - I love being able to adjust for my declination 1 time. Now...if I could only get a compass manufacturer to hear me on something, I could design the perfect compass, lol
I've always owned a Lensatic compass but only knew how to find north. Ha After watching several of your videos, heck I'm full of compass knowledge. I'm also the proud owner of an H3. Wow. I am enjoying your videos.
Iam subbing just for how good you are at talking, and the culture in the video really shows to a Canadian like me. Wanted to get a personal compass for my future career in the Infantry
AND if Ii am not mistaken, in your video AND ON EVERY LIQUID FILLED COMPASS I OWN (5) there is a bubble in the liquid filled but never ever have I had a bubble in my Cammenga. It is actually not possible due to its engineering. 🙂 Stoker, you have to admit once you get use to the Cammenga its easy to use.
Just a small point on terminology. The north on a map is grid north ie north along the vertical grid lines. Therefore when switching between compass and map you are applying a grid north variation - not a true north variation
I have both types. I used the Silva Ranger primarily in my work as a field archaeologists as it has base plate with a 1:24,000 scale on it which most USGS maps are scaled to. So this made it easier to measure distances, and with also to use for making field maps. I like the lensatic for basic navigation and its durability.
It's all heavily forested at my latitude, no need for the for the sight wire of a lensmatic since it's always trees in you sight line, and of course, there is no straight path. I also rely heavily on quad maps, so a baseplate it is for me. As for durability, my Boy Scout orienteering "baseplate" compass was given to me in 1969, since then, it has gone thousands of hours and at least a thousand hiking, snowshoeing, and hunting miles through the deep woods with me with never a problem (although it will start to slush up at about minus 30F below if not kept close to your body).
Great video. It definitely helped me make up my mind for the baseplate compass. As awesome as the Cammanga is, what sold me on the baseplate is being able to set the magnetic declination and not needing a protractor. I'm a little mathematically challenged - and am not doing land nav in a combat environment. So, the simpler one is gonna be better for me.
I'd recommend a Suunto MC-2 mirrored baseplate compass then. It allows for shooting accurate azimuths and having the baseplate scales. I'd still recommend getting some of the small "pocket slot" protractors that fit in your field pocket notebook....just make sure to have the ones that match your preferred map scale.
For most of my applications the baseplate is the better choice. I have a Recta with gobal needle and adjustment for decination a couple of Silva Field and a Silva Ranger with mirror. I might get a Cammenga just because it´s cool. The surplus shop in my neck of the woods only carry cheap knock offs that appear to be really flimsy and tend have a sticky needle. The direction they indicate as north depends on the starting position. The watch method is more accurate than that.
Binge watching. Great refresher and learning things I didn't know. Thanks Bill. I love my Cammenga. I carry one of each type, my Cammenga 27 and a mirrored baseplate compass.
All of my charts have a declination diagram at the bottom left corner. I simply line up the left edge of my lensatic with the magnetic north line, and then rotate the map and compass together until the compass is indicating north. Then the map is oriented, and you've accounted for declination. Also, an azimuth and bearing aren't the same thing. An azimuth is your direction of travel relative to North, while a bearing is the angle between your location and a point (or between two points). You could be walking an azimuth of 30 degrees, but your bearing to your destination might be 310 degrees. The difference between your bearing and azimuth would be 80 degrees (and you'd be nearly a mile off course, haha).
This video really helped me out! I need a compass that has a fast bearing acquisition and nighttime capable without a flashlight to "charge" it. The only downsides to the Cammenga seem to be that is has less bells a whistles, like a mirror, magnifying glass, a clinometer, and not being able to adjust declination. However, It seems to shine with fast acquisition, compact, rugged design, and the tritium illumination. Having to buy a protractor with it, for map reading, is just par for the course and might actually be better in practice.
😅 serious question to many of you here: if you had maps, did you ever feel you were lost without your compass? I seriously rarely have needed it except in dense jungle type forest without visible references but there I needed to count steps to know when I might hit the trail I wanted to find. Most other times with multiple references available such as forests, field shapes or churches on the horizon etc I don’t feel like I really ha eto whip it out?
I always thought that the bubble in the base plate compass helped to quickly get the compass level. My preference is the lensatic. Thank you for a great video.
Great video! Kinda wish you would have talked a little more about the specific features of both, like determining azimuth for a specific object you're looking at and such
The IRONY is that i keep the 3H on my person most of the time; however, keep the baseplate one in my bag for whenever I'm about "on foot " with a map [in the car]....so I basically have both with me in a way.. most if the time
Had a cheap baseplate once and the dial was transparent as well. Can you imagine reading the dial in low light with the forest floor shining trough? I go for ruggedness and readability in low light without using a flashlight. No baseplates for me
This vid answers my question from another vid. Thanks, I may never have to use a map because the tough military unit will keep me in a straight line. If I do use a map I'll be buying a baseplate tool.🤯👍
@@STOKERMATIC actually bro... I got the backplate because I AM gonna learn maps... With your help. I'm not military, the military unit is a military issue compass... I don't wanna use a protractor.🤣 But I see you keep a straight path with a military compass, so now I can do it too! This map learning will be fun. And... The TruArk 10 don't need a protractor. (I hope) Thanks my brother
Obviously I'm biased with the Cammenga for obvious familiarity reasons. That thing is built like a tank. I have a Suunto and it works great, but I I gotta go with the big green clam lol
Great Comparison of the 2. I was thinking the magnetic compass would be more accurate. I have a cheap made in Taiwan "Open Trails" brand Compass/thermometer/whistle. Today I took it outback to test it & everything read pretty close Except North. It acted like it didn't know which way to point North & it wasn't pointing in the exact opposite direction it had of south. After your review I believe the Brunton TruArc10 would better suite my mapping needs. Thanks Again!
I tend to go military as well, there a reason they have been used for years, also have the sunto mc2 also but pretty mych use the cammenga 3h thank for video
Lensatic, hands down. How about a video on how to get accurate map directionals using the straight edge, like yours, and how to use a compass without a straight edge, like my cheaper plastic version.( Campco).
there actually is methods to adjust for magnetic-grid deviation on lensatic compasses by using the ring, its less straight forward than with baseplate models, but still possible.
The answer to the question of which one to have is both, two is one, one is none. I prefer lensatic for movement as it's quick to align yourself towards a specific visual marker compared to baseplate that you have to fidget with. You should always have a backup compasses get lost, damaged, or de-magnetised it happens.
Great video! For the record there is a difference between azimuth and bearing. An azimuth is always measured in a clockwise direction from north from 0-360 degrees. A bearing can be measured from north or south and is only measured from 0-90 degrees. I think it is technically a surveying term?
I have often used both the base plate compass and the sighting compass in the woods. They both work great. I also use a really nice wrist compass that has been outstanding in how fast and well it works. All hikers should consider using the wrist compass as they worry over the weigh, I never worry about that I just take what is needed if someone is not fit enough to carry so pounds they should not go into the woods.
My favourite and most useful to me is a Cammenga wrist model. Normally I use a compass when travelling by unpaved roads in locations without GPS signal. All that I need is know what direction to take in these precary roads. I have some more sophisticated compasses, like Brunton Eclipse Pro and a military Bézard from 1930's. I'm not a surveyor nor an Artillery officer, so I don't use all functions. Not even the most expensive and sophisticated is the best for your needs.
I've tried at least three "cammenga-style" lensatics over the last years, in the range of 8-to-15$, they are all trash compared to the original, I would'nt trust them in the outdoor. However, since last year I am using the "Geonaute C400" from Decathlon. For circa 20$, I found it to be impressive. It's solid, well built and actually very precise. I have never had the opportunity to use an LC-2 but if you will have the opportunity to make a comparison between the two it would be really interesting. Greetings from Italy, R Ps: I owe to you a lot in terms of personal evolution and landnav skills, I follow all of your videos and you are really an inspirational figure! Keep up the good work ;)
Very interesting! Lost of compasses out there. I’ll pick up a cheapo one to do a review because I agree - most are garbage. Appreciate your generous words too brother! Been a while since I’ve been in Italy. 🍷
@@stevemulholland1532 I agree with your statement, even if I have never had' particolar problems during on-field use. Moreover, I would say I quite reconfirm what already said: it's cheap and slow, but reliable. In these months I've stressed the compass in every condition (hot/cold, rainy/sunny, day or night etc.) and altitude (Sea level up to 2500m) and I've always reached safely my destination. You can trust your new compass, you'll have fun with it. R Ps: Double check is Always recommended: magnetic anomalies or reading errors are not immediatly recognizable due to the needle moving smooth and slow.
My Man! Another great video! I did a quick 'look see' but didn't see any comments on my preferred compass, the Suunto MC-2G. This essentially is a hybrid of the two, base plate and lensatic, and it has the best qualities of them both, well, except for the military grade of the Cammenga. You can set the declination and forget about LARS and remembering going fm map to compass and back again, you can shoot an azimuth like a lensatic, it is actually just as accurate as the lensatic, I tested it because I was concerned about the movement of the compass housing in the plate. You can place the compass on the map to get a bearing, it is a snap. Also, you can use the different scales on the baseplate portion to get a distance as well. Just my thoughts, this is one of the things I have 'geeked out' about fm time to time...
Good stuff Brian! I wouldn’t mind checking out a Suunto like that. Actually, I’d LOVE to be able to design my own - it would be the bomb shizzle! I’d make a hybrid as well, but would use the face and arrow from a Cammenga and put it in a baseplate. They make a “baseplate” compass, but you can’t see through it. So it kind of defeats the purpose.
Well I have both. And I think the suunto is much better for map work put it on the map in the direction you want to travel then line up the meridian lines on the map with the lines on the compass dial. Read bearing. Done. But for out in the field the cammenga shines for reading and shooting an azimuth. Point compass read bearing. done. On the suunto you have to put red in the shed while maintaining your sighing. I love them both. And they compliment each other wonderfully.
@@ronvonbargen8411 I totally agree. I was just goofing yesterday as a matter of fact and came up with a bearing discrepancy of 4 degrees on the Suunto. Carry both, great idea!
Used a British Army lensatic compass for years, love them. These days, I am a Swedish Silva baseplate kind of girl, they work well and the 1-2-3 system spares my ageing brain. The real battle is with those who think compasses are (whispers) old fashioned. So wrong.
Azimuth and bearing are not interchangeable words. Azimuth denotes the angle of a line made with the north end of the meridian (meridian is a straight line running from polar north to south), from 0 degree to 360 degree, clockwise. Bearing is the angle of made by a line and either north end of the meridian or south end of meridian and the angle cannot be greater than 90, either clockwise or counter clockwise. For example, bearing of North 60 degree East is the same with azimuth 60 degree; however, bearing of South 60 degree East is equal to azimuth 120 degree.
Appreciate you adding in to the conversation! I think when I use the words, I may say something like “check your bearing” or “check your azimuth” in which case they may be interchangeable. Like many similar words they also have differences as noted.
Thanks ! What about a surveyors transit / Arty compass ? I used one calibrated in Mils long ago to augment My nav pak and USGI Comenga . Found it very useful .
I mean I feel you should have 3 types for different uses. The lensatic is great for quick navigation while the baseplate is for precision and planning, then you should either strap GPS or a wrist compass to your arm.
Lensatic is an "engineers compass". Good for mapping operations as well as military and artillery woork. Base plate compass is designed for use with topo maps, including the scale and see through base. I don't like GPS or electronics, and I have been comfortable using a map and compass for 60 years. If you can't stay found with a topo map and compass you should stay at home. As a Eagle Scout and scoutmaster I like to challenge the GPS scouts in geocache and way finding, pointing out how it all came from the map and compass originally. The only thing I might want in addition to map and compass is an altimeter. Not an electric one. The last word on this..... " well, I was never lost, just a might confused once" Kit Carson
Bravo........how many compasses........three.......for safety.........if they point in different direction ......u have a safety check with back up....cheers
very much enjoy your vids. In 1962, while in the scouts, we purchased used Korean war era lensatic compasses that we were asked to buy at the local army navy surplus store (when they were REALLY SURPLUS stores.) They looked and acted exactly like Cammenga but they were not; don't remember the manufacturer. Our scout master (former marine) had us break them down to see how they worked, compass out of housing, etc. Then, we sanded, primed and painted each one in day-glow California road crew orange! In those days, lanyards were either cotton or jute, no nylon, polyester, etc. So the jute itched and scratched and the boys tossed them. (I used leather boot laces) Anyway, with day glow, a dropped compass was almost always found. Oddly, I have not seen the bright colors on compasses on the shelves. Sure saved us more than a few times. Keep up the good work!
@@STOKERMATIC Well, your channel rocks, it really does. So, in 1964, when I was 16, my buddy and i were kinda cocky orienteering Popular Mechanics Nerdy dudes who had won a few medium sized orienteering prizes. We studied our topo maps well before (as we always did) adjusted for declination (gotta do the math with a lensatic, compass as you know, better than me),. took our fly rods, packs, day glow lensatics etc, etc, and decided to find what was allegedly a gem of a well hidden (well marked on the map, four miles from any road) trout lake in the Sierras a ways away from Fallen Leaf Lake in the Tahoe basin. About 2 miles and some bush whacking into the hike we ran across 2 very dehydrated, disoriented, utterly exhausted bow hunters! Yes, they had followed a wounded buck (classic) and got turned around and around. Easily, we located the year around creek found on the map less than 100 yards (60 steps for me) from where they were wilting away!! We walked them back the way we had come (basic move) and they hitched a ride to Camp Richardson, just a few miles away. IMHO compass and map reading along with an outdoor class should be REQUIRED (card carrying) for anyone using, for recreation, public lands, parks, etc..city, county, state (province) and federal. Besides the heartbreak of loss, tax payer $$$ is spent needlessly if just a small amount of understanding is required. A hunting license is required, why not a "recreational" license to save us all grief? Sorry for the rant..Good work on this channel, sir.
I bought a AOFAR compass model # AF-4580. I have no idea how to use it. It has a solid metal body and a magnified lens built just below the top of the compass surface that you have to look into to be able to read the outer numbers on the dial. It also has a level bubble so you can determine if a surface is level or not when using a tripod with it. The one I have is similar to your military version, but the AF-4580 seems fancier but just as durable as the military one you have. I would love for you to do a detailed video on how to use the AOFAR model AF-4580. This I assume is a type of lensatic compass.
If navigating with map and compass via a grid system (MGRS or UTM), I don't really give a crap about true north (TM angle). I use grid north (GM angle) to magnetic north for figuring my declination. I cut my teeth with a Cammenga, but I usually run a mirrored baseplate these days....just much more versatile....but I still love the Cammenga...lol
My big problem with the lensatic is the lack of declination. My favorite is the Swiss army compass. It is easy to use, has declination, sturdy, fits easy in your pocket can be used with a map and has the best aiming function of any.
Additional Info: The company who use to make them was apparently acquired by Sunnto. They are still available from Sunnto or Amazon 50 bucks or so. Suunto MB-6G Global Compass
@@timfrost3781 My go to compass. It has 60 degree marks for going around obstacles. Less paces around an obstacle. Difficult to use in the winter. The bezel is difficult to grasp with any sort of glove. It has declination adjustment and incline. My favorite compass for most of the year.
Recta had the patent on magnetic declination correction and later on, on the global needle and I think they were first with a see through body. Silva having invented the see through baseplate in the thirties
Now I've read a bit about compases over the last few weeks, just received my Camenga Tritium just the other day, Brunton is an excellent compass and some Brunton fetch nearly a $1,000 bones but I feel the Brunton is set towards the Surveying profession, as for the Camenga is designed for more of a brutal environment, Battle, Hiking, Climbing environment's etc...Only my opinion though. Thanks for the Compass throwdown Stoker, Good show.🇺🇸👍✌️
@@ericdee6802 what compass do you recommend that can tell me precisely/accurately magnetic north? I read that the quality of compasses went dramatically down since 2010... are out there quality accurate ones that will stay accurate a life time or at least a few decades?
@@incorectulpolitic I'd stick with the Camenga. finding the "Utmost" accurate you probably couldn't carry it, that would be a Maritime compass, which will run $THOUSANDS.... As for durability and price, if its tough enough to guide our troops to safety in battle, Camenga is the one.
Depends on the particular design. A baseplate could do everything that an lensmatic can except fold into a compact closed case. A typical lensmatic can't do everything that a baseplate can. A big part of the difference come from the basic materials used, one being transparent and the other opaque. . If a $75 baseplate compass were compared to a $75 lensmatic compass, there would be a clear winner.
Thanks for watching friends! Make sure you hit the like button and subscribe to stay up to date on future content. You can find gear on my Amazon Influencer Page Check out this page from www.amazon.com/shop/stokermatic
what compass do you recommend that can tell me precisely/accurately magnetic north? I read that the quality of compasses went dramatically down since 2010... are out there quality accurate ones that will stay accurate a life time or at least a few decades?
For someone who has been extensively trained on the proper use of a USGI Lensatic, calculating magnetic declination with every bearing and willing to carry a clinometer and protractor with them, then I might agree with you. However, for the person who has not, then their actual "survival" might hinge on having a base plate with a mirrored lid for more accurate sighting(and signaling for help), adjustable declination so they can get to where they are aiming on the map, etc etc. Personally, you have the right idea, by owning both and being trained, but too many people buy something like a Cammenga for the cool factor and "trusted by military", so hopefully they never get in trouble and don't really need it to stay alive.
@@greenman5255 hi, what compass do you recommend that can tell me precisely/accurately the direction of magnetic north? I read that the quality of compasses went dramatically down since 2010... are out there any quality accurate ones that will stay accurate for a life time or at least a few decades?
I found out about the store after I purchased a grid tool from Amazon. But I still need to get the 🧭 from your store. Seems like your price on the map tools are much better than others. Thanks!
As a member of an Oregon SAR unit, it is absolutely amazing the number of “outdoorsman” we run into that state they “never use a compass.....know this area like the back of my hand.”
We usually meet them twice.
I bet you all have some interesting stories!
Hi, I just want a compass, preferably liquid free, that can show accurately the direction of magnetic north WORLDWIDE, that lasts preferably a lifetime. Does such a compass exist? Thank you
@@incorectulpolitic Most suunto compasses are global but not liquid free.
@@TwoPlusTwoEqualsFive32 I read a lot of reviews that they develop bubbles after days, weeks, months, or even come with a bubble... this is why I am asking around for a quality compass...
@@incorectulpolitic if a compass is pointing to Magnetic North it's pointing to the magnetic poll, all compasses should do this right out of the box.
Great video brother! I had 20 years in Special Forces. If my pockets were not deep or I was not navigating all the time, I would buy a cheap base plate compass. I can navigate just as well with it. I also can drop and toss a baseplate and may get a scratch on it. However, I LOVE the mil spec lensetic because of the tritium (radiactive) glow in the dark. However, all too often, less experienced people make the gear selection above the skill set. Better a guy who can navigate than one with the best compass. When you learn to navigate well, the choice of compass will be minutia. Of course, the topic was which is better. Thanks for your great content!
I carry both, I'll use the base plate compass for map work then use the lenstatic for actual navigation. That uses the strongest features of each and almost removes the negatives.
It also gives some redundancy so long as you don't keep both in the same pocket or pack.
" ...north-seeking end of the needle". Thanks for using the correct terminology! Many nav students assume that this end of the needle is the north pole of a magnet.
I do what I can Ed! Hope all is well with ya!
@@STOKERMATIC Doing well here, my friend. Stay safe and keep on trekking.
@@Ed-hz2um if that was the north end of a magnet it would repel magnetic north… lollll
@@Ed-hz2um "The north pole of a magnet is the pole that - as long as the magnet can spin freely - points towards the north"
True story, my dad never used a compass, he always said "wherever you go there you are"....
It isn’t wrong! Lol
Woah... thats deep man
I have a feeling he may have also said "I think I have been here before?"
@DesertRat45 dead reckoning requires a compass, maybe you mean another technique?
As I was sitting on my motorcycle looking at a map, a car stopped & asked if I was lost.
I replied "Sure am, but if I wasn't lost I wouldn't be having any fun!"
Nice! I've used the Cammenga Lensatic for years turkey hunting in Oregon. Find a nice spot in a far clearing, write down the bearing, do a pace count and hang out in the brush, and go as far as you want, etc. Ive seen some UA-camrs talk down this compass for various reasons while I've been in hail, sleet, snow, altitude, desert, dust storms, open water and heavy bush and it has been spot on every time! Some folks say its hard to use on a map because of declination issues. Nope. Orient your map then turn map with compass on top, (easterly, western US or westerly, eastern US) to the required declination number. Your map is good to go as long as you don't move it. you've changed it from Magnetic north to True north. Remember, declination numbers change so you need to get current numbers for your area. Like your vids!
You got this!
I began using a Silva Ranger in 1975 when I started cruising timber, and it’s the one I know and trust. I think that’s the way we are with a compass. The one we know becomes the one we trust.
Indeed Tom! Great music by the way!!
Just reaching out to let you know that your compass and nav videos are some of the best on UA-cam. Recently been teaching a few friends who grew up on GPS how to work with a compass and I’ve been pointing them to your stuff to fill in the gaps. My take is that I carry both but prefer the lensatic for navigating and working on the move but the baseplate is great for planning at home or camp. Here in the highlands of Appalachia you don’t get a lot of long, straight, shots so the lensatic is great for traveling using a ton of waypoints with minimal deviation, or boxing around the occasional sheer mountain side. I’d be stoked if Cammenga made a version with a 1:24k scale to work just a little better with the USGS topo maps, but that’s a pipe dream since the volume would never match government sales.
Wow - I appreciate that! I think that would be awesome if they did too. I need to contact them again on some stuff, will see if I get any feedback or not.
Who in the hell could give any of this guy's videos a 'thumbs down'?? I don't get it. Anyway...I have both types. The baseplate is ideal for the map working, but the Cammenga is gonna' be more accurate in the field. Way, way tougher too. These Cammenga's are built like tanks. I basically treat mine as baseplate compass for the map and the lensatic compass for the field work. Works well for me.
Great thoughts on both types my man. And thank you very much for your kind words!
Just last Spring I replaced the Cammenga lensatic compass that I’ve had since 1978 (with a new Cammenga).
I have a compass in every bag, but my Cammenga is the one I use on every trip into the bush.
Of course, Cammenga makes a fine baseplate compass too.
Right on! It's a great instrument to have! I wish Cammenga's baseplate compass had more standard baseplate features.
Good video. With modern Topo maps I’ve seen they have an enlarged declination scale at the bottom. You can lay the Lensatic along the declination angle and orient the map by turning the map and the compass until North is lined up on the compass. Then you can just take your bearing as you’ve adjusted for declination.
Even how cool the Cammenga looks and feels, a baseplate compass with sighting mirror is superior in terms of easiness to use and the multiuse of the mirror where you can check yourself (face, teeth etc) and use it for signaling with the help of the sun. As you mention, the built in protractor is a great advantge.
The built in scale for declination is just perfect. But it’s just my opinion. Just make sure you have a compass that you know how to use.
Great video. I prefer the lensatic because it's pretty much a point and shoot kinda deal. If you hunt from a tree stand and you shoot a deer that disappears into a treeline it's easy just to shoot an azimuth,then climb down and know just where to start looking.Especially in Florida where it's usually pretty short visibility when you're on the ground.
Right on James!
That's perfectly true. I used to use it for the same reason as a boy digging ginseng. But, if you use it with a map, it's very easy to make a mistake over several miles if you don't adjust for declination properly. In your case a short distance isn't an issue.
I have used a lensatic since 1982 and I love it.
I love it too!
Hi, I just want a compass, preferably liquid free, that can show accurately the direction of magnetic north WORLDWIDE, that lasts preferably a lifetime. Does such a compass exist? Thank you
As always, straight and to the point! No gibberish like I've seen with other compass vids! 💪
Apart from the unnecessary intro video
Sorry my last comment turned to gibberish. For me, and I have never been in the military. But I grew up using a Silva Baseplate compass and used it in the BSA. However, On the CDT hiking for many months I only took and will take again when I return here in a few months my Camenga Lensatic compass. It is reliable, true and trustworthly and most importantly will hold up to the daily abuse. Thank you for the fine training videos.
No worries Dave! Thanks for sharing that!
I'm not sure the Brand of mine, but it is a lensatic compass and I got it from my brother when he got back his tour in Iraq.
Awesome!
Good video. I own both and use them both. Lensatic for my precise movement and spotting. My baseplate is always out for quick glances to keep me in the shed
Right on amigo!
On a cross country Bicycle ride in 2004, weight was a paramount issue. I knew I would need a compass for confirming highway choices and the peace-of-mind the right direction gives. I included my grandfather's WWII Lensatic and ended up using it three times over the 2462 miles trip. I am not a purest on many things, but despite the fact that it has sentimental value, I choose the trusty Military Lensatic every time.
I specifically have a Cammenga compass in my kit/belt. Also a Silva baseplate fluid filled type of compass in my pack. So, in essence I have both.
My military training has been with the Cammenga and it is held near and dear. I find it ironic that in my profile picture, you will find that same Cammenga compass somewhere on my LBE.
Airborne!
great video and your presentation is outstanding. I had my dad's prismatic compass from WWII that he used in the Pacific. it came in a leather case; with markings all around the sides of the brass base; don't know much about who made it and I gave it to my son who had 22 years in the army. He has my dad's map case & his maps of the different islands and Tokyo. His maps have penciled notes for his artillery batteries. Thank you and take care. The Woodlands, Texas
What an awesome and amazing story! Truly incredible. Thank you for sharing!
Sounds like the British made Francis Barker MK111 see a nice restoration here jpmoeller.com/2017/07/22/francis-barker-mkiii-prismatic-compass/ you may wish to tell your son to be careful as they are quite radioactive due to the old radium paints used for night illumination. They still make them and are still used by the British today - I have one they are called Francis Barker MK73 now - pretty much the same except they use safer tritium for the illumination. Probably the best handheld compass available anywhere.
I have an like both types. The advantage of the Camenga Lensatic, imo, is it can never develop a bubble. But can only be read to about 2.5˚. That being said, I have some Silva-Sweden compasses for 30+ years that have never developed a bubble. I've not found the same reliability in other base plate compasses.
I find you kind of need to think in reverse when switching between using a lensatic to baseplate type compass when thinking about how to adjust for magnetic declination. Because of how the the degree / mils scale rotates with the magnetic north seeking pointer on the compass card on the lensatic, but the magnetic north pointing needle moves separately and independent from the degree scale ring on the base plate compasses. To keep from possibly becoming confused, I always account for it mentally, never using the built in mag declination adjustment even on compasses that have that feature.
For magnetic declination I use an acronym of my own creation. Since I thought it up I probably remember it better. -- -- WAvES (West Add v East Subtract. [v represents an "angle"] Or more fully a phrase. "The Map WAvES to the Compass, and the Compass WAvES back to the Map". iow - Map to land WAvES. For 9˚ west declination, add 9˚ to the azimuth measured on the map to be set on the compass. But when taking a compass measured azimuth back to the map use WAvES back(wards) - the west 9˚ magnetic declination becomes subtracted from the compass measured azimuth, rather than added. To be the correct azimuth on the map to be measured with the protractor.
Anyway, I've enjoyed many of you nav videos. And I like seeing how different manufacturers think about compass design features. Why let a GPS do your thinking for you? Which some research shows atrophies your mental mapping abilities.
Man, that’s such a great contribution to the conversation! I hope lots of people read it. A really good acronym in waVes as well! Stoked to hear from you and hope to continue the journey.
Stoker
@@STOKERMATIC Thanks. I came up with WAvES because I think of electro-magnetic waves. And West Add & East Subtract , seemed a natural fit to the way I think. And I just found it a bit easier to remember than [ LARS, Left Add Right Subtract. Left being West and Right being East.] because I could fit WAvES in the phrase of the map and compass waving to and back to each other. To help remember the correct adjustment going from map to compass or compass to map, dependent on local magnetic declination east or west.
However, one only needs to account for magnetic declination when using a compass & map together. If walking about without a map and only keeping track of how far you walked and the direction walked, it doesn't matter.
I would add that my favorite base plate compass is the Silva 55-6400/360. An easy to use prismatic sighting compass with a prism inside the compass housing, 0.5˚ accuracy, with a handy base plate length of ~ 5 inches (126mm). Close the to length of the sides a protractor. I read somewhere NATO troops use the mills version. But they have become difficult to find at a reasonable price.
I might add two handy thumb rules I try to keep in mind:
A] 5km = ~ 3 miles (3.11 miles) Kind of handy to know if you use 5 bead pace counter. And know your pace count for 1 km & for 1 mile or 1/10th of those distances. I am comfortable converting between metric and imperial on paper, but I still think in imperial distances when walking about. Hey, I spent six years in the Navy, not the Army or Marines.
B] An azimuth error of 1˚ = ~100 ft error off course at 1 mile. [ actually the error is about 92 feet, but "1˚/100 ft/ 1 mile" I find is easier to remember]
People can calculate that for themselves to understand the thumb rule B , by one of at least two methods:
1] Tan = opposite/ adjacent (t=o/a, o = distance off course , a = 1 mile = 5280 ft. ) Rearranging the formula - > tan(1˚) * 5280 ft = 0.017455 * 5280 = 92.16 ft.
2] Think of a circle with radius of 1 mile (5280 ft) . The circumference, C = 2 * r * pi = 10560 ft * pi = 33,175.22 ft. And C/360˚ = 92.15 ft/ 1˚.
Thus the thumb rule can be used to make a quick estimate that if you're off course by say 5˚ (due to sum of sighting errors + difficulty accurately walking the azimuth) at 1 mile you will miss the target by about 500 ft. ~ 167 yards, 1.67 football fields. That, I think, illustrates a few things:
a compass with ~ 2.5˚ accuracy is ok, but sight as accurately as possible, walk to your destination as accurately as possible, use check points and handrails, as much as possible, keep check point distances short.
However, if you are walking about in an area near the agonic line (where magnetic declination = 0) ignoring accounting for magnetic declination isn't a big deal if magnetic declination is less than about 4˚ east or west. The agonic line runs basically from north Michigan to western tip of Florida in contention USA. You will be a little off target, but not to far. Unless you really need extreme accuracy.
[ of course if you think in metric, instead of miles and feet, the formulas 1 & 2 can be done with Km or meters. But the 1˚ / 100ft / 1 mile no longer works. But 1˚ error at 1 km works out to 1˚ / 1.75m / 1 km. A 5km walk with 5˚ error = ~ 44meters. Pretty close. < half the length of a football field.
Keep doing the fun uploads.
Great overview comment!! Yet another way to remember declination and make the map speak compass language is "WEST" is best and "EAST" is least. So "WEST" declination on the Topo you would ADD degrees to the "TRUE" north to navigate in the field.
In the UK military to account for magnetic deviation we used "Mag to Grid = get rid" and "Grid to Mag = Add". The western part of the UK currently has (practically) zero deviation, so it's simple! At least for a year or two (until it moves East). We were always taught using Silva baseplate compasses.
Does this make sense? I heard something similar. Not sure who.
Westerly declination:
Grid to Mag (GI to Major) add
Mag to Grid (Major to GI) subtract
Easterly declination:
Grid to Mag (General to Major) subtract
Mag to Grid (Major to General) add
Great content.
A protractor is not necessary to calculate grid azimuth on a Commenga compass. If you line up the white bezel line with the grid lines then calculate the numbers of clicks to meet the declination you are ready to rotate your body to put "red in the shed" and march on a magnetic course.
Re: declination
Rotate the bezel in the direction of the GM angle. Click left for westerly (negative), click right for Easterly (positive). 3 degrees per click. I am 16 West. 5 clicks to the left. I will be off 1 degree. No big deal for most of us. Heading back I aim off more than a degree. Usually 5.
An orienteering compass is great to use due to the built in protractor and declination adjustment. They just do not last long. Having an "army" compass as back up is smart.
I have a maptools protractor and also a super pliable half protractor in my nav kit.
Thanks for the great content.
The war model had many more references, you were only eight clicks away from any position , where by now it's sixty
I agree with the choice. Cammenga is a "buy once, cry once" product that will serve you well and will outlive many baseplate compasses.
So true!
I use the Brunton Lensatic Compass "Military-Style Compass". Yes, it doesn't have either the phosphorus nor tritium, but it's tough and gets the job done. I had to buy it many years ago when I didn't have $80 to spend. Nonetheless, it serves the same purpose as many others. Plus, it's made in the U.S.A.
Used a Lensatic when in the army, nowt wrong with it. But I've been using my same Silva Expedition 4 regularly for FIFTY years -still no bubble; don't bother taking into account grid magnetic angle in the UK because the declination is minimal (
Every filled baseplate compass ive ever had all developed a bubble. Glad the day came i switched to Lensatic (Cammenga) compass. And ive learned to do map work without a protracter.
I have a decent baseplate - but I LOVE my lensatic!
Thanks.
Never in military, base plate has
Always worked for me, going back
to 1970.
in my youth i had a old WWII compass that was rough but still workable. dad would drop me off at the front gate of most of the state parks here in OK. the only instructions given was " i'll see you at a place he'd point to on the map. dead reckoning was he taught me , steak &potato would be waiting for me to finish my trek.
now i've got a lensatic made by " stocker&yale " inc. out of beverly , mass., dated aug. 30 '78 .
i've had it since the early '80s, the tritium has long since died. i've revisited most of the state parks on my own. i've been catching your's ( and others )video on actually using the features of the lensatic compass.
Awesome story! Thanks for sharing!!
True Lensatic Compass does not have declination adjustments. Baseboard compass are far better suited for recreational activities. But I still prefer Lensatic Compass bcoz I'm trained and have used it. Long story short, doesn't what compass you got but it's the usage knowledge that matters. Good Vid 😎👍
Right on!!
Great channel. I use a K&R Merridian pro and the Cammenga (for dark movement). The Cammenga is good but the K&R is more accurate. Both are excellent. There will never be a bubble in the K&R because of the thermoplastic they use for the capsule. So niether will bubble up. This is just my opinion but not having a sight on the compass is like a rifle without sights; especially for non-trail "bushwacking".
Cammenga 3H cost me 105.00 i just ordered one. Now i need a military protractor and 1:25,000 1:50,000 scale map hehe.
Ive been watching and learning alot with your series and the more i see the Cammenga in action the more iam convinced its bombproof. It takes time getting used to the declination sayings depending where grid and magnetic north are and if you have east or west declination.. but i guess it comes in time and with alot of practice. Thanks for your series and experiences. It sure has helped even a 52 year old starting out.
You got this! Glad the content resonates with ya!
I have both types. Compasses are pretty cheap nowadays if you're willing to settle for an off brand model just for casual use.
Two is 1! And no need to break the bank if you don't have to!
I bought a Commenga compass.
Very nice!
I have a cheap baseplate compass, but it seems the commenga with its metallic housing, not effected as much from outside metallic objects like the plastic baseplate compass.
Commenga far as I know, don't use fluid to stabilize the pointer in side as most compasses have.
Still, very solid in its movement.
The Commenga, big thumbs up from me!
I like to have both, one is for taking more accurate longer range bearings (lenstatic), but for short range bearings when traveling, especially in thick stuff, or when being within 3-5deg is sufficient I'm more than happy with a base plate. My Silva baseplate I inherited from my father is 45-50years old (he brought it for tramping about the time I was born)
I have found a base plate to be more useful. Lensmatic was what I grew up with but the base plate style seems easier to work with a map. Using it with a trekking pole gives me a steady base and I haven’t found loss of accuracy compared to the Lens.
Suunto mc2 for me, adjustable declination simplifies navigation so much it's hard to imagine living without it and map work is easier with a clear base plate.
The Cammenega is a thing of exquisite beauty though and very functional too.
Totally agree - I love being able to adjust for my declination 1 time. Now...if I could only get a compass manufacturer to hear me on something, I could design the perfect compass, lol
I've always owned a Lensatic compass but only knew how to find north. Ha After watching several of your videos, heck I'm full of compass knowledge. I'm also the proud owner of an H3. Wow. I am enjoying your videos.
That stoked me up!
After 10 years most H3 is gone. Just like my father's radium compass is completely burned out (but the radium is still there).
Iam subbing just for how good you are at talking, and the culture in the video really shows to a Canadian like me. Wanted to get a personal compass for my future career in the Infantry
Glad you enjoyed it friend - best to you in the infantry!
I have 2 compasses I never knew how to work them until I saw your video thanks very much
Right on!
I Always Have a needle Compass it doesn't have anything, indeed it's classic to know which direction you are facing and great in travelling
AND if Ii am not mistaken, in your video AND ON EVERY LIQUID FILLED COMPASS I OWN (5) there is a bubble in the liquid filled but never ever have I had a bubble in my Cammenga. It is actually not possible due to its engineering. 🙂 Stoker, you have to admit once you get use to the Cammenga its easy to use.
Just a small point on terminology. The north on a map is grid north ie north along the vertical grid lines. Therefore when switching between compass and map you are applying a grid north variation - not a true north variation
I have both types. I used the Silva Ranger primarily in my work as a field archaeologists as it has base plate with a 1:24,000 scale on it which most USGS maps are scaled to. So this made it easier to measure distances, and with also to use for making field maps. I like the lensatic for basic navigation and its durability.
The one you know how to use and the one you have is better than none...
@@davidlee9299 Agree
It's all heavily forested at my latitude, no need for the for the sight wire of a lensmatic since it's always trees in you sight line, and of course, there is no straight path. I also rely heavily on quad maps, so a baseplate it is for me. As for durability, my Boy Scout orienteering "baseplate" compass was given to me in 1969, since then, it has gone thousands of hours and at least a thousand hiking, snowshoeing, and hunting miles through the deep woods with me with never a problem (although it will start to slush up at about minus 30F below if not kept close to your body).
Silva lensatic compass is very good. A lensatic makes it easier to get bearings with by aligning with topographical features. 😊
Great video. It definitely helped me make up my mind for the baseplate compass. As awesome as the Cammanga is, what sold me on the baseplate is being able to set the magnetic declination and not needing a protractor. I'm a little mathematically challenged - and am not doing land nav in a combat environment. So, the simpler one is gonna be better for me.
That’s a great function of it!
I'd recommend a Suunto MC-2 mirrored baseplate compass then. It allows for shooting accurate azimuths and having the baseplate scales. I'd still recommend getting some of the small "pocket slot" protractors that fit in your field pocket notebook....just make sure to have the ones that match your preferred map scale.
@@toddgibson9861, that's what I got. It's great.
For most of my applications the baseplate is the better choice. I have a Recta with gobal needle and adjustment for decination a couple of Silva Field and a Silva Ranger with mirror. I might get a Cammenga just because it´s cool. The surplus shop in my neck of the woods only carry cheap knock offs that appear to be really flimsy and tend have a sticky needle. The direction they indicate as north depends on the starting position. The watch method is more accurate than that.
Binge watching. Great refresher and learning things I didn't know. Thanks Bill. I love my Cammenga. I carry one of each type, my Cammenga 27 and a mirrored baseplate compass.
I still use the compass I got in the army 25 years ago. It's a baseplate compass with a mirror.
All of my charts have a declination diagram at the bottom left corner. I simply line up the left edge of my lensatic with the magnetic north line, and then rotate the map and compass together until the compass is indicating north. Then the map is oriented, and you've accounted for declination. Also, an azimuth and bearing aren't the same thing. An azimuth is your direction of travel relative to North, while a bearing is the angle between your location and a point (or between two points). You could be walking an azimuth of 30 degrees, but your bearing to your destination might be 310 degrees. The difference between your bearing and azimuth would be 80 degrees (and you'd be nearly a mile off course, haha).
This video really helped me out! I need a compass that has a fast bearing acquisition and nighttime capable without a flashlight to "charge" it. The only downsides to the Cammenga seem to be that is has less bells a whistles, like a mirror, magnifying glass, a clinometer, and not being able to adjust declination. However, It seems to shine with fast acquisition, compact, rugged design, and the tritium illumination. Having to buy a protractor with it, for map reading, is just par for the course and might actually be better in practice.
I've always preferred the mirrored base plate compasses.
😅 serious question to many of you here: if you had maps, did you ever feel you were lost without your compass? I seriously rarely have needed it except in dense jungle type forest without visible references but there I needed to count steps to know when I might hit the trail I wanted to find. Most other times with multiple references available such as forests, field shapes or churches on the horizon etc I don’t feel like I really ha eto whip it out?
I always thought that the bubble in the base plate compass helped to quickly get the compass level. My preference is the lensatic. Thank you for a great video.
🍺🇺🇸
In the 80, and 90's ( armoured recce)I used the 16dcl Silva. I used and still use now
Great video! Kinda wish you would have talked a little more about the specific features of both, like determining azimuth for a specific object you're looking at and such
The IRONY is that i keep the 3H on my person most of the time; however, keep the baseplate one in my bag for whenever I'm about "on foot " with a map [in the car]....so I basically have both with me in a way.. most if the time
Right on!
Had a cheap baseplate once and the dial was transparent as well. Can you imagine reading the dial in low light with the forest floor shining trough? I go for ruggedness and readability in low light without using a flashlight. No baseplates for me
This vid answers my question from another vid. Thanks, I may never have to use a map because the tough military unit will keep me in a straight line. If I do use a map I'll be buying a baseplate tool.🤯👍
If your in the military, I hope you DO have to use a map. Master your analog methods
@@STOKERMATIC actually bro... I got the backplate because I AM gonna learn maps...
With your help. I'm not military, the military unit is a military issue compass... I don't wanna use a protractor.🤣 But I see you keep a straight path with a military compass, so now I can do it too! This map learning will be fun. And... The TruArk 10 don't need a protractor. (I hope)
Thanks my brother
Obviously I'm biased with the Cammenga for obvious familiarity reasons. That thing is built like a tank. I have a Suunto and it works great, but I I gotta go with the big green clam lol
Obviously the base plate compass is superior. Facts.
Obviously!
Great video. I'm only familiar with the common military lensatic compass. The other one merits a look. Thank you.
Great review. You covered all of the points. I thank you you did change my mind have used a lensatic compass for all these years.
Appreciate that Martin!
Best compass is the one you can shave with. The baseplate with ZE MIRROR!
Great Comparison of the 2. I was thinking the magnetic compass would be more accurate. I have a cheap made in Taiwan "Open Trails" brand Compass/thermometer/whistle. Today I took it outback to test it & everything read pretty close Except North. It acted like it didn't know which way to point North & it wasn't pointing in the exact opposite direction it had of south.
After your review I believe the Brunton TruArc10 would better suite my mapping needs. Thanks Again!
Much gooder than the Taiwanese one!
I tend to go military as well, there a reason they have been used for years, also have the sunto mc2 also but pretty mych use the cammenga 3h thank for video
Lensatic, hands down. How about a video on how to get accurate map directionals using the straight edge, like yours, and how to use a compass without a straight edge, like my cheaper plastic version.( Campco).
I dig it Darlene! Sounds like a good idea to do a comparison!
there actually is methods to adjust for magnetic-grid deviation on lensatic compasses by using the ring, its less straight forward than with baseplate models, but still possible.
Both. If possible both.
Baseplate for map work, lensatic for all else…
The answer to the question of which one to have is both, two is one, one is none. I prefer lensatic for movement as it's quick to align yourself towards a specific visual marker compared to baseplate that you have to fidget with.
You should always have a backup compasses get lost, damaged, or de-magnetised it happens.
So true!
Great video! For the record there is a difference between azimuth and bearing. An azimuth is always measured in a clockwise direction from north from 0-360 degrees. A bearing can be measured from north or south and is only measured from 0-90 degrees. I think it is technically a surveying term?
I have often used both the base plate compass and the sighting compass in the woods. They both work great. I also use a really nice wrist compass that has been outstanding in how fast and well it works. All hikers should consider using the wrist compass as they worry over the weigh, I never worry about that I just take what is needed if someone is not fit enough to carry so pounds they should not go into the woods.
Yes! Carry something. And I agree, in some circles, hikers count ounces even worse than a nutty nutritionist counts calories
My favourite and most useful to me is a Cammenga wrist model. Normally I use a compass when travelling by unpaved roads in locations without GPS signal. All that I need is know what direction to take in these precary roads.
I have some more sophisticated compasses, like Brunton Eclipse Pro and a military Bézard from 1930's. I'm not a surveyor nor an Artillery officer, so I don't use all functions.
Not even the most expensive and sophisticated is the best for your needs.
Once you get a sense of how to "feel" what the compass and map are saying, you can use just the Silva. But even then you might need a lens at night.
Base plate for map work.Geo for line of sight. Mud puppy for Skagit SAR.
The best compass is the one that you can use effectively.
lensatic cammenga got it in the coast guard in 1977 .still works but not in the dark anymore.
Awesome!
You should send it into cammenga they'll re put the tritium on it
Semper Paratus !
What a beautiful tree!
I've tried at least three "cammenga-style" lensatics over the last years, in the range of 8-to-15$, they are all trash compared to the original, I would'nt trust them in the outdoor.
However, since last year I am using the "Geonaute C400" from Decathlon. For circa 20$, I found it to be impressive. It's solid, well built and actually very precise. I have never had the opportunity to use an LC-2 but if you will have the opportunity to make a comparison between the two it would be really interesting.
Greetings from Italy,
R
Ps: I owe to you a lot in terms of personal evolution and landnav skills, I follow all of your videos and you are really an inspirational figure! Keep up the good work ;)
Very interesting! Lost of compasses out there. I’ll pick up a cheapo one to do a review because I agree - most are garbage.
Appreciate your generous words too brother! Been a while since I’ve been in Italy. 🍷
@@STOKERMATIC I hope one day I ll have the opportunity to come and visit the US' beauties!!! Thank you for your kind reply, have a nice day! R
I just bought this compass from Decathalon. I am abroad and look forward to using it. I wanted a bigger bezel for winter use and larger numbers.
@@stevemulholland1532 I agree with your statement, even if I have never had' particolar problems during on-field use. Moreover, I would say I quite reconfirm what already said: it's cheap and slow, but reliable. In these months I've stressed the compass in every condition (hot/cold, rainy/sunny, day or night etc.) and altitude (Sea level up to 2500m) and I've always reached safely my destination. You can trust your new compass, you'll have fun with it. R
Ps: Double check is Always recommended: magnetic anomalies or reading errors are not immediatly recognizable due to the needle moving smooth and slow.
My Man! Another great video! I did a quick 'look see' but didn't see any comments on my preferred compass, the Suunto MC-2G. This essentially is a hybrid of the two, base plate and lensatic, and it has the best qualities of them both, well, except for the military grade of the Cammenga. You can set the declination and forget about LARS and remembering going fm map to compass and back again, you can shoot an azimuth like a lensatic, it is actually just as accurate as the lensatic, I tested it because I was concerned about the movement of the compass housing in the plate. You can place the compass on the map to get a bearing, it is a snap. Also, you can use the different scales on the baseplate portion to get a distance as well. Just my thoughts, this is one of the things I have 'geeked out' about fm time to time...
Good stuff Brian! I wouldn’t mind checking out a Suunto like that. Actually, I’d LOVE to be able to design my own - it would be the bomb shizzle! I’d make a hybrid as well, but would use the face and arrow from a Cammenga and put it in a baseplate.
They make a “baseplate” compass, but you can’t see through it. So it kind of defeats the purpose.
My favorite is the Suunto M3 Global System. Accurate in both the Northern and Southern hemisphere.
@@George-vf7ss which is the M3? I have the MC-2 global.
Well I have both. And I think the suunto is much better for map work put it on the map in the direction you want to travel then line up the meridian lines on the map with the lines on the compass dial. Read bearing. Done. But for out in the field the cammenga shines for reading and shooting an azimuth. Point compass read bearing. done. On the suunto you have to put red in the shed while maintaining your sighing. I love them both. And they compliment each other wonderfully.
@@ronvonbargen8411 I totally agree. I was just goofing yesterday as a matter of fact and came up with a bearing discrepancy of 4 degrees on the Suunto. Carry both, great idea!
Used a British Army lensatic compass for years, love them. These days, I am a Swedish Silva baseplate kind of girl, they work well and the 1-2-3 system spares my ageing brain. The real battle is with those who think compasses are (whispers) old fashioned. So wrong.
So wrong indeed!
I like being able to relate the compass directly to the map. #TeamBaseplate
Hard to argue with that!
I generally carry both. Idk if I’m crazy or just a compass geek or both 😆
Me too!
Azimuth and bearing are not interchangeable words. Azimuth denotes the angle of a line made with the north end of the meridian (meridian is a straight line running from polar north to south), from 0 degree to 360 degree, clockwise. Bearing is the angle of made by a line and either north end of the meridian or south end of meridian and the angle cannot be greater than 90, either clockwise or counter clockwise. For example, bearing of North 60 degree East is the same with azimuth 60 degree; however, bearing of South 60 degree East is equal to azimuth 120 degree.
Appreciate you adding in to the conversation! I think when I use the words, I may say something like “check your bearing” or “check your azimuth” in which case they may be interchangeable.
Like many similar words they also have differences as noted.
@@STOKERMATIC Word. Thanks for doing the videos. They're very helpful!
Thanks ! What about a surveyors transit / Arty compass ? I used one calibrated in Mils long ago to augment My nav pak and USGI Comenga . Found it very useful .
I dig em but they aren’t very useful for land nav in the move, IMO.
I mean I feel you should have 3 types for different uses. The lensatic is great for quick navigation while the baseplate is for precision and planning, then you should either strap GPS or a wrist compass to your arm.
Lensatic is an "engineers compass". Good for mapping operations as well as military and artillery woork. Base plate compass is designed for use with topo maps, including the scale and see through base. I don't like GPS or electronics, and I have been comfortable using a map and compass for 60 years. If you can't stay found with a topo map and compass you should stay at home. As a Eagle Scout and scoutmaster I like to challenge the GPS scouts in geocache and way finding, pointing out how it all came from the map and compass originally. The only thing I might want in addition to map and compass is an altimeter. Not an electric one. The last word on this..... " well, I was never lost, just a might confused once" Kit Carson
Bravo........how many compasses........three.......for safety.........if they point in different direction ......u have a safety check with back up....cheers
very much enjoy your vids. In 1962, while in the scouts, we purchased used Korean war era lensatic compasses that we were asked to buy at the local army navy surplus store (when they were REALLY SURPLUS stores.) They looked and acted exactly like Cammenga but they were not; don't remember the manufacturer. Our scout master (former marine) had us break them down to see how they worked, compass out of housing, etc. Then, we sanded, primed and painted each one in day-glow California road crew orange! In those days, lanyards were either cotton or jute, no nylon, polyester, etc. So the jute itched and scratched and the boys tossed them. (I used leather boot laces) Anyway, with day glow, a dropped compass was almost always found. Oddly, I have not seen the bright colors on compasses on the shelves. Sure saved us more than a few times. Keep up the good work!
Man I appreciate that story!! Thanks friend!
@@STOKERMATIC Well, your channel rocks, it really does. So, in 1964, when I was 16, my buddy and i were kinda cocky orienteering Popular Mechanics Nerdy dudes who had won a few medium sized orienteering prizes. We studied our topo maps well before (as we always did) adjusted for declination (gotta do the math with a lensatic, compass as you know, better than me),. took our fly rods, packs, day glow lensatics etc, etc, and decided to find what was allegedly a gem of a well hidden (well marked on the map, four miles from any road) trout lake in the Sierras a ways away from Fallen Leaf Lake in the Tahoe basin. About 2 miles and some bush whacking into the hike we ran across 2 very dehydrated, disoriented, utterly exhausted bow hunters! Yes, they had followed a wounded buck (classic) and got turned around and around. Easily, we located the year around creek found on the map less than 100 yards (60 steps for me) from where they were wilting away!! We walked them back the way we had come (basic move) and they hitched a ride to Camp Richardson, just a few miles away. IMHO compass and map reading along with an outdoor class should be REQUIRED (card carrying) for anyone using, for recreation, public lands, parks, etc..city, county, state (province) and federal. Besides the heartbreak of loss, tax payer $$$ is spent needlessly if just a small amount of understanding is required. A hunting license is required, why not a "recreational" license to save us all grief? Sorry for the rant..Good work on this channel, sir.
Straight and to the point!!! Great Job!!!!
👊
I bought a AOFAR compass model # AF-4580. I have no idea how to use it. It has a solid metal body and a magnified lens built just below the top of the compass surface that you have to look into to be able to read the outer numbers on the dial. It also has a level bubble so you can determine if a surface is level or not when using a tripod with it. The one I have is similar to your military version, but the AF-4580 seems fancier but just as durable as the military one you have. I would love for you to do a detailed video on how to use the AOFAR model AF-4580. This I assume is a type of lensatic compass.
If navigating with map and compass via a grid system (MGRS or UTM), I don't really give a crap about true north (TM angle). I use grid north (GM angle) to magnetic north for figuring my declination. I cut my teeth with a Cammenga, but I usually run a mirrored baseplate these days....just much more versatile....but I still love the Cammenga...lol
Rookie question here. The lensatic wins for toughness, but would a fragile and necessary protractor shift the scales back to the base plate?
Hmmm - maybe! I wish Cammenga's baseplate was actually a baseplate, but even with that you need a protractor
My big problem with the lensatic is the lack of declination. My favorite is the Swiss army compass. It is easy to use, has declination, sturdy, fits easy in your pocket can be used with a map and has the best aiming function of any.
Tim, good stuff! I’ve seen em but haven’t used one. I’d love to work with a manufacturer to make the “perfect” compass.
Additional Info:
The company who use to make them was apparently acquired by Sunnto. They are still available from Sunnto or Amazon 50 bucks or so.
Suunto MB-6G Global Compass
RECTA Matchbox compass. Bought over by Sunnto as stated. S A D
@@timfrost3781 My go to compass. It has 60 degree marks for going around obstacles. Less paces around an obstacle. Difficult to use in the winter. The bezel is difficult to grasp with any sort of glove. It has declination adjustment and incline. My favorite compass for most of the year.
Recta had the patent on magnetic declination correction and later on, on the global needle and I think they were first with a see through body. Silva having invented the see through baseplate in the thirties
Keep both! One is none 2 is one!
Thanks for the quick no nonsense explanation. Great video. 👍
Thanks Marty! Which one do you prefer?
Now I've read a bit about compases over the last few weeks, just received my Camenga Tritium just the other day, Brunton is an excellent compass and some Brunton fetch nearly a $1,000 bones but I feel the Brunton is set towards the Surveying profession, as for the Camenga is designed for more of a brutal environment, Battle, Hiking, Climbing environment's etc...Only my opinion though.
Thanks for the Compass throwdown Stoker, Good show.🇺🇸👍✌️
I have busted a Cammenga - but for the most part they are king in the field!
@@STOKERMATIC Well, still have to keep in mind, it is a precision instrument and should be treated as such within reason.👍
@@ericdee6802 what compass do you recommend that can tell me precisely/accurately magnetic north? I read that the quality of compasses went dramatically down since 2010... are out there quality accurate ones that will stay accurate a life time or at least a few decades?
@@incorectulpolitic I'd stick with the Camenga. finding the "Utmost" accurate you probably couldn't carry it, that would be a Maritime compass, which will run $THOUSANDS.... As for durability and price, if its tough enough to guide our troops to safety in battle, Camenga is the one.
@@ericdee6802 isn't tritium in the Cammenga radioactive? Are you not concerned?
Hi demonstrate a video about using button compass in proper way
Sounds good!
Depends on the particular design. A baseplate could do everything that an lensmatic can except fold into a compact closed case. A typical lensmatic can't do everything that a baseplate can. A big part of the difference come from the basic materials used, one being transparent and the other opaque. . If a $75 baseplate compass were compared to a $75 lensmatic compass, there would be a clear winner.