I get what you're saying, but you're fundamentally incorrect in this instance. You don't grasp the bigger picture; you're confusing the order of men and women, and you're missing the fact that women are free to order themselves that way since they have already made their submission. I agree with you that men are more submissive and sensitive about it, and there is a good reason for that. Men who refuse to submit face death and excommunication; women who resist face a temporary loss of bodily autonomy and a decrease in resources. Women compete just as much as men, and they have hierarchies that are simply covert and not overt, like men. Men gain nothing from participating in this way because it preserves resources that they would never have access to in the first place. In addition, men, unlike women, must assume greater risk in order to reap any kind of reward, and their lives are always in jeopardy regardless of where they are in the system. So yes, women are naturally submissive, which has nothing to do with or conflates with the concept of larger consequences for men who are not submissive within a hierarchy. Lastly, your conflating women not needing men, at least in how presented with power. Men could always destroy women. your confusing why anyone is submissive in the first place. Men are an optimized pathway to resources and protection for women; being necessary is irrelevant. You are operating under the erroneous assumption that women want to remove or no longer desire to submit to men in exchange for better rewards and safety. I can see why you may think so, but you also need to realize that other men-rather than women-are the ones who suffer the worst consequences from hierarchy. Women aren't subjected to the full force of that hierarchy since they don't actually pose a danger to it.
There are lots of contradictions in what you wrote. But ultimately, you don’t understand how the patriarchal system in which we live shaped social systems and social expectations. Women are assaulted daily for even rejecting a man’s advances. The laws have loosened to give women more rights but they used this to force women into submission. If someone is naturally submissive you don’t need to do this. They just behave accordingly. Where as men in institutions THEY create they create hierarchies of submission. This doesn’t exist in matriarchal societies. Women have had to learn to move in a patriarchal society, this doesn’t allow for a woman’s true identity to be realized. So you know nothing of women. You only know what they have responded to since colonialism it has been mostly fear of life, that could be taken by any man. And for decades it wasn’t illegal to harm women. You see how just this changed the nature of women. Patriarchy also negatively impacts men, but the feel the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. Your knowledge of any of this is limited to what patriarchy has indoctrinated you to believe but if you take the time to dismantle this belief system you will grow. I hope you try, you may find yourself to be free
you keep proving my point , none of that contradicts or conflicts with the discussion of submission - what you want to do is weaponize it for a different agenda that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. This is like saying all submission is a form of patriarchy - Its bad shorthand and lazy logic. Your focus is women which is understandable but you keep talking about a tool that harms women and walking past its still used to kill more men. Your stuck on your agenda and working your way backwards which is the issue. Case in point you say women learn to move in patriarchal society that doesn't allow for a women's true identity. This means nothing the act of submission restricts other identities in the first place to begin with thats the point. This is not magically only a women issue most men can't be who they really are as well. This is what you keep conflating - Your stuck and understandably so on the benefit possible for a man within this system. But your completely removing also the increased risk to men within the system as well. I agree the system is not fair but it doesn't mean women aren't submissive or men in that regard. Lastly I don't need to dismantle it to understand it because were discussing the implications of the system not the world without it. Also you dont realize how much more dangerous the world would be for women if men actually would compete with women. The flaw in your argument is you assume this is the baseline for the worse this thing can be for women or men and its not. @@TheGiLife
@@TheGiLife looking forward to it. I think what you’re not paying attention to is 1. Nature and 2. Why social structures were invented in the first place
@@a.j.adderley786I very much am. I just don’t believe the nature as interpreted by patriarchal ideologies and I know why those forces created what they did. Like I said, if women submitted naturally men wouldn’t have needed to create laws (and continue to) in order to oppress women
@@TheGiLife this is where I think you missed the mark. The laws were to govern society as a whole. Not to make women submit. And even within various societies women had rights. What differed among different societies was the method of living. In larger civilizations, such as the Roman Empire, where you currently live, women had rights of property ownership and inheritance. In the Byzantine Empire, Empress Theodora convinced her husband, Emperor Justinian, to give women equal protection under the law known as Justinian Code. However, in parts of the world that had harsher living conditions and smaller tribal communities, laws and customs were based on family traditions. So there is your hated patriarchy. You had dad at the head of the family and eventually became grandpa.
Thank you for making this video because I've been thinking of this concept for along time but I didn't think that many others felt this way
I think if people took an honest assessment of our social structures they would see it. But lots of us can’t break our indoctrinations
I have always felt this. They don’t want “lead” at all. They thinking us delegating tasks is them leading lmao.
Hahaha! Seriously!
I get what you're saying, but you're fundamentally incorrect in this instance. You don't grasp the bigger picture; you're confusing the order of men and women, and you're missing the fact that women are free to order themselves that way since they have already made their submission.
I agree with you that men are more submissive and sensitive about it, and there is a good reason for that.
Men who refuse to submit face death and excommunication; women who resist face a temporary loss of bodily autonomy and a decrease in resources.
Women compete just as much as men, and they have hierarchies that are simply covert and not overt, like men. Men gain nothing from participating in this way because it preserves resources that they would never have access to in the first place.
In addition, men, unlike women, must assume greater risk in order to reap any kind of reward, and their lives are always in jeopardy regardless of where they are in the system.
So yes, women are naturally submissive, which has nothing to do with or conflates with the concept of larger consequences for men who are not submissive within a hierarchy.
Lastly, your conflating women not needing men, at least in how presented with power. Men could always destroy women. your confusing why anyone is submissive in the first place.
Men are an optimized pathway to resources and protection for women; being necessary is irrelevant.
You are operating under the erroneous assumption that women want to remove or no longer desire to submit to men in exchange for better rewards and safety.
I can see why you may think so, but you also need to realize that other men-rather than women-are the ones who suffer the worst consequences from hierarchy. Women aren't subjected to the full force of that hierarchy since they don't actually pose a danger to it.
There are lots of contradictions in what you wrote. But ultimately, you don’t understand how the patriarchal system in which we live shaped social systems and social expectations.
Women are assaulted daily for even rejecting a man’s advances. The laws have loosened to give women more rights but they used this to force women into submission. If someone is naturally submissive you don’t need to do this. They just behave accordingly. Where as men in institutions THEY create they create hierarchies of submission. This doesn’t exist in matriarchal societies.
Women have had to learn to move in a patriarchal society, this doesn’t allow for a woman’s true identity to be realized. So you know nothing of women. You only know what they have responded to since colonialism it has been mostly fear of life, that could be taken by any man. And for decades it wasn’t illegal to harm women. You see how just this changed the nature of women.
Patriarchy also negatively impacts men, but the feel the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. Your knowledge of any of this is limited to what patriarchy has indoctrinated you to believe but if you take the time to dismantle this belief system you will grow. I hope you try, you may find yourself to be free
you keep proving my point , none of that contradicts or conflicts with the discussion of submission - what you want to do is weaponize it for a different agenda that has nothing to do with the discussion at hand.
This is like saying all submission is a form of patriarchy - Its bad shorthand and lazy logic.
Your focus is women which is understandable but you keep talking about a tool that harms women and walking past its still used to kill more men.
Your stuck on your agenda and working your way backwards which is the issue.
Case in point you say women learn to move in patriarchal society that doesn't allow for a women's true identity.
This means nothing the act of submission restricts other identities in the first place to begin with thats the point.
This is not magically only a women issue most men can't be who they really are as well.
This is what you keep conflating - Your stuck and understandably so on the benefit possible for a man within this system.
But your completely removing also the increased risk to men within the system as well.
I agree the system is not fair but it doesn't mean women aren't submissive or men in that regard.
Lastly I don't need to dismantle it to understand it because were discussing the implications of the system not the world without it.
Also you dont realize how much more dangerous the world would be for women if men actually would compete with women.
The flaw in your argument is you assume this is the baseline for the worse this thing can be for women or men and its not. @@TheGiLife
We’ve known each other for 35 years. You could not be more wrong on this one.
Lol.. I think the social structures men created prove otherwise.. although I imagine most would agree with you. We cann discuss in Nola 😜
@@TheGiLife looking forward to it. I think what you’re not paying attention to is 1. Nature and 2. Why social structures were invented in the first place
@@a.j.adderley786I very much am. I just don’t believe the nature as interpreted by patriarchal ideologies and I know why those forces created what they did. Like I said, if women submitted naturally men wouldn’t have needed to create laws (and continue to) in order to oppress women
@@TheGiLife this is where I think you missed the mark. The laws were to govern society as a whole. Not to make women submit. And even within various societies women had rights. What differed among different societies was the method of living. In larger civilizations, such as the Roman Empire, where you currently live, women had rights of property ownership and inheritance. In the Byzantine Empire, Empress Theodora convinced her husband, Emperor Justinian, to give women equal protection under the law known as Justinian Code. However, in parts of the world that had harsher living conditions and smaller tribal communities, laws and customs were based on family traditions. So there is your hated patriarchy. You had dad at the head of the family and eventually became grandpa.
@@TheGiLife also. In what manner are women in western civilization oppressed?