also why it should be demanded that companies provide replacements if it breaks from such manufacturing-errors, or the tools to repair it. And if they go bankrupt or all employees die, should be required to release all that is needed publicly
@@HerrCron Same can be said for books, plays, humans,, movies, children, languages, housing, electronic currency/banking data, paper money in your wallet, the milk, religions, and nations, etc. Only thing you can't really apply that argument on, is technical knowledge required in crafts - like how to build now housing, or how to produce iron or plastic tools. And even then you kinda can, anyway.
The actual shitshow with SAG-AFTRA is that the announcement claimed to have consulted the relevant people in their ranks to ensure the deal was fair...and all the reporting I've read on it says that not only have a bunch of big names come out and said they don't know anyone who even heard this discussion was happening, but no one else seems to be able to figure out who was allegedly consulted after additional digging! Nor any details of the contract, for that matter. Regardless of what level of protections they actually did or did not get, this looks really bad from a "we don't care about you" standpoint.
Personally maybe this is just me thing but I think they're only two ways that is acceptable to use generative AI as part of voice acting. One the way cyberpunk did it when they released phantom Liberty. That being one of the actors died and with their families permission they use generative AI to cover his voice so they didn't have to re-record all of the lines from the base game. And two in an RPG like Skyrim where you can name your character using it to fill and dialog with your characters actual name.
My favorite part of how the AI Bros just openly fed the Magic database into the training pool is they didn't sanitize it. So not only are Phil and Kaja Foglio in it, 'Claymore J. Flapdoodle' is as well. The Un- sets functioning as inadvertent trap streets.
That just puts them in the same high class as other investments like wine or... actually I got nothing wine is the only one I can think of where most of the antique vintages worth millions are actually bottles of bad vinegar.
I mean, they weren't gonna be removed from the package without losing value anyway. If you remove it and it turns out to be blank, it just happens to have removed ALL value.
Bobby Kotick doesn't think he's a rich old white man, he just thinks he's Bobby Kotick; so I wouldn't be surprised if he actually did say that without any irony.
Regular reminder that Bobby Kotick would also like for people to stop posting pictures of him with his devil horns showing, as it makes it harder for him to date human women.
This. White people talking about "the problem with white people" is extremely common. It's just that they all mean "other white people, not me obviously."
You know...I always imagine Paul being like behind the camera, even though I know he isn't. But it still caught me off guard when they looked to the side 😂
There's a surprising number of "you're so close...!" scenarios out there. For example: Guy: "The company I work for just laid off a bunch of workers and opened a factory in China! They're outsourcing good American jobs just to get cheap labor!" Me: "Come on... you're so close...! It's because capitalism incentivizes harmful practices for even the smallest profits, and CEOs don't care about you. Come on man, you're almost there!" Guy: "It's those dang liberals' fault!" Me: "Goddammit! You almost had it there!"
According to Wikipedia, it was first used by a scientist and a mathematician in their book Collapse of Chaos. They then co-authored The Science of Discworld with Terry Pratchett. So he didn't originate the term, but he got in on the ground floor, so to speak, and it wouldn't surprise me if TSOD is more responsible for the spread.
it comes up a lot that his reality warping has to operate within the bounds of a good story, so he's not allowed to let himself win unless it would make sense to the story that he would win
I could vaguely hear Beej going DO NOT WANT! during the Nintendo DS story. A lot of digging for that story. Why yes some people still run phpBB boards like it is the early 2000s.
Fun fact about the idea of "using AI to copy MTG" is that you actually fully can. You can't use any of the official names of anything in MTG, but you cannot copyright a ruleset for a board/card game. That's why parody versions of monopoly are allowed to exist as long as they don't use the monopoly squares or any other official verbiage. If you used AI to thesaurus bot MTG and remade every single card but didn't call any effect the same thing, then you would be in the clear.
This is the same reason why D&D can't actually stop you from making your own tabletop game using their rulesets regardless of any open source agreement they think they have, as long as you don't use anything they have copyright over.
This is also why Netrunner is still kicking around even after WotC decided that the license was worth a few million more than they'd previously been charging FFG for it. Now there's a community group that produces a "Netrunner compatible game", which is the biggest subtweet energy I've seen lately.
4:20 As far as I can tell, the ECC call is made once every 3 milliseconds, so just booting a game up to its menu screen should be plenty of runtime. Assuming that it boots. Edit: Remember that this also applies to Switch games!
Well, after that Nintendo story, I did spend the rest of my day checking my 3DS carts to make sure they all worked (which they did) and my regular DS carts as well just in case (with only New Super Mario Bros not working, but I don't think that was the same thing)
2:06 “Okay, you made me scared, you did what you set out to do.” I love the Tragically Hip lyrics in the lower third! And now I guess I’m off to refresh all my 3DS games…
Valve (rightfully) has one concern -- don't get sued. They know well enough not to blanket shut down AI since that's a *vast* net to throw, but they also know the internet is for porn. That's quite a balancing act really.
SAG-AFTRA is basically telling VAs that they only have two choices if an AI voice generator would be used for them: refuse the job or just deal with it.
to clarify on the ai voice thing sag-aftra has a deal with one specific company which does ai voice attacking to ensure that when it happens the voice actors whose voice is used is properly compensated, as opposed to if no such deal was in place where they would not be
also worth noting that AI voice acting and scripting is actually potentially huge for games, it opens the door for every background NPC to be a unique character in their own right in a way that just would not be possible with current technology. main characters and important characters should always be voiced by a human but assuming that every instance of an AI voice is 'stealing a job' from a real person is on the same level as saying every pirated piece of media is a lost sale.
@@Thavleifrim Yeah, I think the place for AI in games is not where it's replacing human labor, but where a human artist/writer/actor couldn't have done the job to begin with. Instead the AI is just competing with a different computer algorithm, like older text-to-speech or procedural generation. I want an LLM to write customized flavor text for events in game series like Civilization and Victoria based on the messed-up world I've stumbled into building which the writers could have never predicted. It could even use all that demographic data that I don't have the time to dig through! No writer was going to write flavor text appropriate for my Victoria 3 playthrough's post-apocalyptic ruin, in which Spanish Flu completely destroyed every industrialized nation on Earth except player-controlled Russia and the isolationist, anarcho-socialist commune of Japan, but it would be so incredible if the game could auto-magically write fitting events even after your game state had gone off the rails.
The Writers Guild also doesn't do much for video game writers. Craig Mazen, who wrote the last of us show, has talked (on the podcast he cohosted Script Notes) about getting video game writers included in the writers guild but it has never moved further than pitching and initial research, it seems.
And I bet Nintendo also didn't take advantage of Flash's rewriteability to burn post-release patches directly onto the card instead of wasting space on the system's internal storage, either. (Never actually owned a 3DS or Switch or I'd probably know this already.)
SAG-AFTRA came to an agreement about the AI thing, that's what they were seeking in the strike. I think the crappy thing is that "no, never" was never an option on the table. I don't think it's fair to frame "obtained a licensing agreement contract for likeness rights for voice reproduction with AI" as "doesn't understand" or "doesn't care."
Ah. Guess I'll have to find out now whether the Ocarina of Time 3D card I haven't touched since 2014 (among others, but that's probably the longest left unchecked) is still good or not...
"They used generative AI to copy Magic the Gathering" (in the context of "that wouldn't be allowed") So... uh... have they seen the news about WotC? I would have thought so. Unless that was the joke and i missed it.
To clarify, does the data-loss problem affect other generations of Nintendo carts? The story specifically mentions 3DS & Switch, but the image at 4:02 shows a DS cart ambiguously.
I'm curious as to what investigation Venable expected HR to do for an employee saying he had "white male privilege". Was it said in the context of a formal complaint against him, or just in conversation? Because the latter doesn't seem actionable by an HR department.
the latter can definitely be actionable, if there are traces. ie. recordings (security cameras?), or emails/chatlogs (if it was in writing), or witnesses if HR believes in those faulty beings.
As soon as I heard the 3DS story i immediately booted up mine, and my Pokemon X still exists so... thanks for scaring me! Addendum: I then heard the part about it mostly effecting games that have not been plugged into the system, and so I tested my Fire Emblem Echoes and after a false blank, it booted normally...
OOF, that ruling on video game voice AI is brutal. I don't really mind it when it's used for a mod or something that is just free to the public, but for anything that generates sales income... that is just straight up wrong.
Well... I already ripped all of my DS cards to my 3DS and got those backed up. Can't actually remember if I did the same for 3DS games, but I guess I have an activity for next week now: try out all the 3DS games to make sure they work, and then back them all up.
And I'm having trouble providing any relevant guidance due to youtube's algorithmic linkspam prevention. Go to the point in the video where you have a screenshot reference, you'll see a domain name used by a gaming forum in that screenshot. go there.
executives be like: "Wow could've used that story about SAG-AFTRA being okay with ai voices in video games a few months ago, of course I agree with their decision but it still would've been great for my smear campaign."
Has anyone stopped to tell Kathleen that she looks strikingly similar to Janine Melnitz in the first Ghostbusters movie? No? I can't be the only one who sees it...😅
Thank you for sharing the info Kathleen, I’m going to test how my 3DS games are holding up. 👍 Also, the audacity of that executive who recognized that workplace discrimination based on identity is a thing, but still being unable to see his own privilege would baffling, if life hasn’t shown me the ways in which white men fail to recognize systemic discrimination while simultaneously getting upset when things don’t go their way 100% of the time. 🙄
There probably *will* be some overcorrective discrimination, I think we're already seeing that in part with college applications in some areas, but it's not going to be hitting executive positions in corporations for decades at least. I'll always be a little leery of things like that not being taken seriously. Just comes with growing up not having my own issues taken seriously, I can't help but think "yeah but what if its true though". When I was struggling in school the school's response was to try and get me to drop out so I wouldn't affect their graduation rate stats.
The end result is unfortunate for VAs but I do think it's just a reflection of the actual market power of the workers here. If SAG just outright said no AI games companies would just use VAs not covered by sag both foreign and domestic. VAs aren't the selling point for a majority of games like actors are for movies and tv so they really just don't have the same bargaining power.
The issue with Valve just saying "you can't use generative AI that uses copyrighted material" is that all generative AI models so far are made with millions and millions of copyrighted material. So, it's a hollow notion.
Welp. Now I'm EVEN MORE upset that I put off sending my 3DS in for repairs until Nintendo stopped doing 3DS repairs. And then put off finding someone else who could do 3DS repairs until... Well, now. And probably for a while after now. God I hate my laziness...
the thing about the video game voice ai thing is video games are the only place where a generative ai voice would be ADDING to the art of the game instead of just being a cheap way not to pay VAs as much. In many games there would be an added realism if the commentators could react generatively towards the actions that are taking place in game (apparently the finals already has this and i didnt notice when i played it once) but i play a lot of sports sims with the commentators turned off because even with recording tens of thousands of voice lines and having them played dynamically when certain flags are met its still old and boring. (also being against ai because of copyright law is extremely ironic since copright law only benefits companies not artists)
@drdca8263 you can do that. However, most of the available products just take images wholesale out of things like Google. If you're willing to take the time to meticulously curate literally millions of images, then you can do it. And more importantly, you have to be aware of how versatile you want the ai to be. If you want it make generally anything you can't exclude images like a class photo or medical imagery. If you look up most of the sites that specifically cater to ai pornography you will see that you are very limited in what a user can input specifically to prevent that sort of abuse.
@@alexfranz817 Hm, well, if you first train a model to answer the question “does this image include a child (or a person who looks like a child)” (which could probably have reasonably high accuracy when trained on not-so-big datasets), and use that, as well as checking for the phrases in any of the captions, I think that could exclude a large fraction of the images of children, and also any text that seems associated with children as captions, so even if a few images of children were in the data set, there mostly wouldn’t be any words that would be associated with them? Though, personally I think I’d be more interested in a dataset that excludes all depictions of persons. That would be of less use to horny people qua horny people.
the sag aftra deal with AI companies was a positive protection for voice actors. Who, according to their deal, have to be compensated for generated content using their voices AND have total control of *how* said voices are used. How do i know this and you dont? do you guys only read the titles and not the articles?
The whole copyright debate around AI is just stupid. It doesn't matter if the AI was trained on copyrighted works, as you are allowed to privately use such works as you wish. And any results of that are clearly transformative - until the ai generates copyright-infringing material. In other words, arguing against it is like saying babies and children are not allowed to watch copyrighted movies, because they might draw infringing art, or write infringing fiction. But just like such a child doing that, this means that using ai to generate your game is risky, as like how the parent selling their childrens mickey mouse drawings as merch might infringe the copyright or trademark and holds the responsibility is such happens, so too does a developer who sells a game that includes their 'child's' (ai's) output hold responsibility for the content. Only possible exception is if the customer interacts directly with the ai, prompting it for output. As just like if you sold one-on-one sessions with your drawing-prodigy to draw stuff on the customers request, doing the same with your ai obfuscates where the responsibility lies - if any. TL;DR - AI should legally be treated same as children are: irresponsible entities of chaos whose expression is the responsibility of their guardian/handler, or whoever manipulates them. ps: and if it wasn't clear, just like someone mimicking a persons likeness or voice (with the intent and quality that people are fooled into thinking it is legit) without their permission is performing an illegal act, so should an AI doing it be. People own their own identity and traits.
A child has other influences, as well as their own unique neurology. "Generative AI," on the other hand, is neither truly generative, nor AI in any of the senses that most people think of when they use the term. It is capable of nothing more complex than regurgitating an amalgamation of the works it was trained on. It does not have a mind of its own, and it does not create so much as replicate. They are not able to _think._ _That_ is why people (rightly) regard at least the prominent publicly available models as mass plagiarism machines. And yes, you are allowed to _privately_ use copyrighted works under some circumstances. What we are talking about is _commercially_ using copyrighted works. If you somehow don't get that these works are, in fact, being used directly, and not merely as inspiration, kindly reread the preceding paragraph.
@@jemolk8945 I don't think anyone thinks "AGI" (artificial general intelligence - despite current context, don't confuse "general" with "generative") when they hear "ai" nowadays. Marketing firms has made extra sure to kill that connotation in a fire through their overuse of it as a buzzword. "It is capable of nothing more complex than regurgitating an amalgamation of the works it was trained on." Exactly like a human. Which is why it is such an apt analogy. "it does not create so much as replicate" Much like pretty much all we humans do too, aside from a few blind strokes of genius - which from our perception even LLMs can do (and more commonly do really, since they are more vulnerable to what has been coined "hallucinating", aka saying wildly nonsensical stuff). "What we are talking about is commercially using copyrighted works." No, the training is done privately, the resulting math monster is what is commercial. That is like saying that you can't let your kids watch disney movies "being used directly" Again, you misunderstood how it works. They are, quite literally (using the proper meaning of that word) being used _indirectly._ The copyrighted material is used to train a model, and then the model is used to generate things. _At least_ one layer of indirection, though more can be argued depending how you look at it. Overall, I think your mistake seems to lay mainly in that you think generating a result based on an input, means that the result is invariably always going to be very much alike the result (something akin to an identity-function; when in reality a better analogy would be more like a very high-order polynomial function - the error between output and input can vary wildly and extremely unlikely to be low, and even the proportionality (derivates and multi-order derivates) is, to a human, nil). Additionally, the matter of fact is such that the sheer amount of data used makes any "identity"-like behaviour *_extraordinarily_* unlikely (because its parameters are adjusted by each data-item), unless you explicitly give it an input designed to produce a certain output (in which case, again, you could just as well ask your kids to draw a certain image). And even if you train it on a much smaller Set, it is _still_ extremely likely for some random output to be outright plagiarism. In short, it is possible to generate content that _isn't_ outright plagiarism. All that is beside the point I was making though, as my point is that plagiarism is not in the act of training, but rather that just like the actions a tiny being of irresponsible chaos (child) is the responsibility of its guardian, so should the "actions" (output) of any algorithm be the responsibility of the person handling it (and as we are talking copyright, this means the person sharing/selling said output/content). To put it into perspective: if someone used all voice-actors voices to train an ai to create voice recordings of text, then the issue is not that they used their voices to train it. Instead, *it is if they use it to generate said voice recordings, and they didn't turn out to be distinctly unique* (at least to the extent that someone who knows the voice of a voice-actor can tell the difference in a blind test with any reasonable accuracy - without resorting to something like sound-artefacts or recording quality), but still proceeded to use said recordings commercially. Don't accuse the internal processes (of the company) as plagiarism, accuse based on the products the company produce instead.
@@feha92 I think you seriously underestimate how much goes into creating any sort of work for a human. These bots simply mash together the data they've been fed, and have nothing else to draw from whatsoever. Human artists draw from other art they've seen, yes, but they also draw from their own experiences outside of art. Humans are capable of bringing in ideas and viewpoints that were not previously represented. AI, as it exists now, is not. Whatever output they create will be no more than a remix of what already exists. I, and most artists, regard this as a rather significant difference. Furthermore, the copyrighted works are being used to generate a commercial product. The AI is a commercial product. The training data defines what kinds of works it can output, and the styles it can recreate. It can do nothing not represented in its training data. Ergo, that training data is being used for commercial purposes. Also -- a major test for fair use of copyrighted material is about whether it makes the original redundant. The point of the AI push, as far as companies are concerned, is to make the artists themselves redundant by creating machines that can output close-enough facsimiles of the work those artists had previously been doing. You might say that's not legally quite the same thing. Sure. Ethically, however, it is the same concept, but much, _much_ worse, and we can and should demand limits to its use at the _very_ least.
Here's the thing- the AI isn't, by itself, generating art. It's a human person, using a tool that was made from scraping copyrighted data, made by other humans, generating something. You need to look up the chain and find the human, as software isn't by itself a legal entity. To paraphase your own statement: AI should legally be treated same as Photoshop is: irresponsible computer programs whose output is the responsibility of their maker, or whoever uses them. Besides, even if you ignore all the moral and legal stuff- does Steam really wanna risk publishing a game that used training material from, say, Disney?
@@jemolk8945 No I know humans take a lot of work to get things done. It is why we are inventing ai in the first place - we are slow. But quantity/velocity does not matter when it comes to ethics and whether something is a copyright infringement. And saying it just "remixes the training data" is a reductionist way to phrase it, as that makes it sound as if it just cuts and pastes like a remix-creator cuts and pastes the mix-tape's tape. AI and humans, both, "remix" their experiences to create something new, and so long as the output is distinctly unique, saying the artist plagiarised you just because you know they read your book in school-curriculum is both petty, mistaken, and demeaning. Copyright is not a transitive property in the way you described there. Again, what you describe is that a child drawing art you sell makes the child a commercial product, and letting them watch a movie is plagiarism no matter that the art had nothing to do with the movie. No, if the art _is_ plagiarising something, then the *_art_* is the plagiarism. Not the kid, nor the movie-time. Finally, you are saying yourself that it isn't plagiarism? Because it doesn't make the original art redundant. Only the artist (by sheer drawing speed). I would argue not even the artist is redundant (yet), because ai at it's current state is only going to devolve over time as it trains on datasets produced by other ai's, with no refinement based on a metric of what is "good" art - or at least not a metric that corresponds to a humans. But yes, I do agree that - as its own topic - turning a trade redundant is its own issue. But it has nothing to do with copyright/plagiarism, not legally nor ethically - I disagree about that. And the solution is not to just gimp the ai's training data, instead it (or rather one solution, the one that promotes ensuring humans place in a trade is guaranteed) would be to have legislation on its _use._ Personally though, I think it should be used rather freely too (and only the output is limited by copyright laws), and that either artists needs to draw art it just can't (have you tried asking the current iteration for a spritesheet of animated frames? or images with text), draw better (training data means bias, something a human is still uniquely superior in reflecting on and avoiding), or even draw with ai as a tool in their toolset (and so on. As for drawing faster, that is where). Essentially, to find a niche in the market as the market improves, much like how many trades has been phased out over the millenia as our crafts, knowledge, and technology advanced to make them less and less relevant (while spawning even more new ones).
The blizzard story is hilarious because its literally provable to court the company discriminated IN FAVOUR OF old white guys in every conceivable way, and here's an old white guy mad they didn't discriminate enough It's like a male college student starting a discrimination lawsuit at the time when colleges started admitting women, its wild. Also i love that hes basically confirming the statement about him having white male privilege. Not that it needed confirmation but like, the lack of awareness is astounding. Hes an old white dude in a room full of old white dudes all in leadership positions in a company with a terrible toxic culture towards anyone who isn't an old white dude and he genuinely thinks that someone telling him he has privilege others don't or that the overrepresentation of his group due to discrimination somehow makes him a victim. Wild
That mario screen thing is so flat as a paper. Ugh some of these skids are so 2000 and should have stayed that, don’t try to act like you guys know that the younger generation like, you only look like idiots doing so. Just talk like normal adults.
@@PharaohBender27 Thought I unsubscribed to him after the stupid take he made about the black men who were obviously being discriminated against at the Starbucks. I guess the internet is forever.
The DS story is why emulation and preservation is so important imo
Agreed without reservation. I bought physical copies so I wouldn't have to worry about losing games to bitrot, damnit!
As always it's up to the pirates to do what Nintendont.
Dose this effect DS games. I thought the story only covered 2/3DS games.
also why it should be demanded that companies provide replacements if it breaks from such manufacturing-errors, or the tools to repair it. And if they go bankrupt or all employees die, should be required to release all that is needed publicly
@@HerrCron Same can be said for books, plays, humans,, movies, children, languages, housing, electronic currency/banking data, paper money in your wallet, the milk, religions, and nations, etc.
Only thing you can't really apply that argument on, is technical knowledge required in crafts - like how to build now housing, or how to produce iron or plastic tools. And even then you kinda can, anyway.
I'm imaging a very immediate "Beej's backlog" stream where he just plays 3DS games switching to a new one every 30 minutes.
The actual shitshow with SAG-AFTRA is that the announcement claimed to have consulted the relevant people in their ranks to ensure the deal was fair...and all the reporting I've read on it says that not only have a bunch of big names come out and said they don't know anyone who even heard this discussion was happening, but no one else seems to be able to figure out who was allegedly consulted after additional digging! Nor any details of the contract, for that matter.
Regardless of what level of protections they actually did or did not get, this looks really bad from a "we don't care about you" standpoint.
I feel bad for Jacob Burgess. :(
Oh no, Kathleen, SAG-AFTRA's tendency to treat VAs as second class members has been a _very_ common take the past couple days.
Yeah they have been very clear that people working on video games are not real members just like side people
Personally maybe this is just me thing but I think they're only two ways that is acceptable to use generative AI as part of voice acting. One the way cyberpunk did it when they released phantom Liberty. That being one of the actors died and with their families permission they use generative AI to cover his voice so they didn't have to re-record all of the lines from the base game. And two in an RPG like Skyrim where you can name your character using it to fill and dialog with your characters actual name.
My favorite part of how the AI Bros just openly fed the Magic database into the training pool is they didn't sanitize it. So not only are Phil and Kaja Foglio in it, 'Claymore J. Flapdoodle' is as well. The Un- sets functioning as inadvertent trap streets.
Ha!
Lol
How ironic that highly collectible sealed games might actually contain functionally blank cartridges.
That just puts them in the same high class as other investments like wine or... actually I got nothing wine is the only one I can think of where most of the antique vintages worth millions are actually bottles of bad vinegar.
I mean, they weren't gonna be removed from the package without losing value anyway.
If you remove it and it turns out to be blank, it just happens to have removed ALL value.
@@FFKonoko At least you'll have a nice box
The collector's market it going to be very interesting in the future.
So far I have 21 of 83 physical 3DS games tested. All powered on for at least 7 minutes.
No problems yet.
Bobby Kotick doesn't think he's a rich old white man, he just thinks he's Bobby Kotick; so I wouldn't be surprised if he actually did say that without any irony.
Bobby K: "There's too many rich white guys around here!"
Employee: "Then leave, Bobby."
Bobby K: "... I do not understand a word you are saying."
Regular reminder that Bobby Kotick would also like for people to stop posting pictures of him with his devil horns showing, as it makes it harder for him to date human women.
This. White people talking about "the problem with white people" is extremely common. It's just that they all mean "other white people, not me obviously."
You know...I always imagine Paul being like behind the camera, even though I know he isn't. But it still caught me off guard when they looked to the side 😂
There's a surprising number of "you're so close...!" scenarios out there. For example:
Guy: "The company I work for just laid off a bunch of workers and opened a factory in China! They're outsourcing good American jobs just to get cheap labor!"
Me: "Come on... you're so close...! It's because capitalism incentivizes harmful practices for even the smallest profits, and CEOs don't care about you. Come on man, you're almost there!"
Guy: "It's those dang liberals' fault!"
Me: "Goddammit! You almost had it there!"
I can use my checkpoint mug as a cup holder!?!? Kathleen you genius!
"Lies-to-children." Nice Pratchett reference.
Is it a Prachett reference? I thought that was just a phrase people used
According to Wikipedia, it was first used by a scientist and a mathematician in their book Collapse of Chaos. They then co-authored The Science of Discworld with Terry Pratchett. So he didn't originate the term, but he got in on the ground floor, so to speak, and it wouldn't surprise me if TSOD is more responsible for the spread.
@@hughcaldwell1034 Cool, thanks!
"Voice Actors" are just actors! They should be valued!
your grammar says otherwise.
@@feha92 edited
The 3ds and switch game story is scary and depressing.
You could legitimately argue that Wake is overpowered in DbD, because he likely has written himself winning.
People seem to forget that Alan Wake is a reality-bender.
@@LexYeen His biggest weakness I guess is that he's his own worst enemy (sometimes literally?)
it comes up a lot that his reality warping has to operate within the bounds of a good story, so he's not allowed to let himself win unless it would make sense to the story that he would win
"I [do this task] better with a body-wide sense of urgency" is just the neurodivergent experience, from what I've seen 😅😂
Thanks to this video, TIL my Majora's Mask 3D cart is dead. Thankfully the rest of my collection is still fine.
RIP in pepperoni. o7
....guess I know what I'll be doing this weekend with my physical games collection. Heck.
Good news: The ECC check is called every 3 milliseconds, so just booting up to main menu should be plenty of runtime.
Good luck.
I could vaguely hear Beej going DO NOT WANT! during the Nintendo DS story. A lot of digging for that story. Why yes some people still run phpBB boards like it is the early 2000s.
"Kind-of crappy for people who make their living in video games" is a sadly evergreen sentiment.
Fun fact about the idea of "using AI to copy MTG" is that you actually fully can. You can't use any of the official names of anything in MTG, but you cannot copyright a ruleset for a board/card game. That's why parody versions of monopoly are allowed to exist as long as they don't use the monopoly squares or any other official verbiage. If you used AI to thesaurus bot MTG and remade every single card but didn't call any effect the same thing, then you would be in the clear.
This is the same reason why D&D can't actually stop you from making your own tabletop game using their rulesets regardless of any open source agreement they think they have, as long as you don't use anything they have copyright over.
This is also why Netrunner is still kicking around even after WotC decided that the license was worth a few million more than they'd previously been charging FFG for it. Now there's a community group that produces a "Netrunner compatible game", which is the biggest subtweet energy I've seen lately.
4:20 As far as I can tell, the ECC call is made once every 3 milliseconds, so just booting a game up to its menu screen should be plenty of runtime. Assuming that it boots.
Edit: Remember that this also applies to Switch games!
Does it really hit the full chip though every call?
@@darkshadow1416given how truly _fast_ 3ms is, I assume so.
Well, after that Nintendo story, I did spend the rest of my day checking my 3DS carts to make sure they all worked (which they did) and my regular DS carts as well just in case (with only New Super Mario Bros not working, but I don't think that was the same thing)
Regular DS carts aren't made with the same technology as 3DS and Switch carts.
@@LexYeen Better safe than sorry!
I refuse to believe that Bobby kotick ever uttered the words. the problem with Activision Blizzard leadership.
2:06 “Okay, you made me scared, you did what you set out to do.” I love the Tragically Hip lyrics in the lower third! And now I guess I’m off to refresh all my 3DS games…
Holy shit that 3ds/switch cart story
Valve (rightfully) has one concern -- don't get sued. They know well enough not to blanket shut down AI since that's a *vast* net to throw, but they also know the internet is for porn. That's quite a balancing act really.
SAG-AFTRA is basically telling VAs that they only have two choices if an AI voice generator would be used for them: refuse the job or just deal with it.
to clarify on the ai voice thing sag-aftra has a deal with one specific company which does ai voice attacking to ensure that when it happens the voice actors whose voice is used is properly compensated, as opposed to if no such deal was in place where they would not be
also worth noting that AI voice acting and scripting is actually potentially huge for games, it opens the door for every background NPC to be a unique character in their own right in a way that just would not be possible with current technology. main characters and important characters should always be voiced by a human but assuming that every instance of an AI voice is 'stealing a job' from a real person is on the same level as saying every pirated piece of media is a lost sale.
@@Thavleifrim Yeah, I think the place for AI in games is not where it's replacing human labor, but where a human artist/writer/actor couldn't have done the job to begin with. Instead the AI is just competing with a different computer algorithm, like older text-to-speech or procedural generation. I want an LLM to write customized flavor text for events in game series like Civilization and Victoria based on the messed-up world I've stumbled into building which the writers could have never predicted. It could even use all that demographic data that I don't have the time to dig through!
No writer was going to write flavor text appropriate for my Victoria 3 playthrough's post-apocalyptic ruin, in which Spanish Flu completely destroyed every industrialized nation on Earth except player-controlled Russia and the isolationist, anarcho-socialist commune of Japan, but it would be so incredible if the game could auto-magically write fitting events even after your game state had gone off the rails.
Stealth Hip lyrics always gets engagement from me!
Hitting me hard with those Tragically Hip lyrics.
friendship is like peeing in you pants. everyone can see it but only you can feel the warmth.
Thanks a lot, I read that in Beej's voice. Now I can't unsee him grinning.
The Writers Guild also doesn't do much for video game writers. Craig Mazen, who wrote the last of us show, has talked (on the podcast he cohosted Script Notes) about getting video game writers included in the writers guild but it has never moved further than pitching and initial research, it seems.
Why does Kathleen’s mug have an after market muffler?
I need to go get all of my switch cartridges from 2011. Those things must be rotting by now.
EEK! Omega Ruby is one of the three 3DS games I have!!
You could make a mickey mouse game so long as he's got white pants and is obviously non-disney.
Me, refilling my Piss mug: I'm helping!
Dat Cathleen exit at the end 🤣
That sure is a mood. 😂
she's just saying what we're all feeling!
And I bet Nintendo also didn't take advantage of Flash's rewriteability to burn post-release patches directly onto the card instead of wasting space on the system's internal storage, either. (Never actually owned a 3DS or Switch or I'd probably know this already.)
SAG-AFTRA came to an agreement about the AI thing, that's what they were seeking in the strike. I think the crappy thing is that "no, never" was never an option on the table. I don't think it's fair to frame "obtained a licensing agreement contract for likeness rights for voice reproduction with AI" as "doesn't understand" or "doesn't care."
"Lies to children"... Science of the Discworld?
Ah. Guess I'll have to find out now whether the Ocarina of Time 3D card I haven't touched since 2014 (among others, but that's probably the longest left unchecked) is still good or not...
"They used generative AI to copy Magic the Gathering" (in the context of "that wouldn't be allowed")
So... uh... have they seen the news about WotC? I would have thought so. Unless that was the joke and i missed it.
To clarify, does the data-loss problem affect other generations of Nintendo carts? The story specifically mentions 3DS & Switch, but the image at 4:02 shows a DS cart ambiguously.
Thank you, Kathleen! I know what I'm doing with my evening now!
(commenting for engagement)
Thank you for the heads up
Checkpoint? For my birthday? You shouldn't have.
Happy birthday! It's also my birthday 🎉
@@Dr.Mrs.Pancakes Well Bappy Hirthday to both you and @PantherAssaultCannon! 🎂
Happ’n Birthems!
Happy birthday, person I don't know but respect for their choice of Shadowrun bangstick!
Time to check all of my DS Pokemon games so I can get all those teams out before they get disappeared.
I'm curious as to what investigation Venable expected HR to do for an employee saying he had "white male privilege". Was it said in the context of a formal complaint against him, or just in conversation? Because the latter doesn't seem actionable by an HR department.
That was also my question. What did you want them to investigate? What does that even mean?
the latter can definitely be actionable, if there are traces. ie. recordings (security cameras?), or emails/chatlogs (if it was in writing), or witnesses if HR believes in those faulty beings.
HIP REFERENCE HIP REFERENCE
Hey Doctors LRR, any chance of getting story source links in the video description?
As soon as I heard the 3DS story i immediately booted up mine, and my Pokemon X still exists so... thanks for scaring me!
Addendum: I then heard the part about it mostly effecting games that have not been plugged into the system, and so I tested my Fire Emblem Echoes and after a false blank, it booted normally...
Sounds like the voice actors should break away and make their own more radical union.
Speaking of Blizzard, stay safe in the snow this weekend!
Thank you for the DS story
OOF, that ruling on video game voice AI is brutal. I don't really mind it when it's used for a mod or something that is just free to the public, but for anything that generates sales income... that is just straight up wrong.
The funniest thing I've seen out of CES this year is not one, but TWO SSD AIO Liquid Coolers.
Well... I already ripped all of my DS cards to my 3DS and got those backed up.
Can't actually remember if I did the same for 3DS games, but I guess I have an activity for next week now: try out all the 3DS games to make sure they work, and then back them all up.
Does anyone have more info on the ds games story? I have a pretty sizable collection and I need to know what i should be doing to preserve it.
This hack will make your digital media last longer...just store it in the fridge!
Could someone provide source on the 3ds cart segment? I'm having trouble finding anything and would like to read more details
And I'm having trouble providing any relevant guidance due to youtube's algorithmic linkspam prevention. Go to the point in the video where you have a screenshot reference, you'll see a domain name used by a gaming forum in that screenshot. go there.
it's weird seeing someone you know mentioned in a Checkpoint!
executives be like: "Wow could've used that story about SAG-AFTRA being okay with ai voices in video games a few months ago, of course I agree with their decision but it still would've been great for my smear campaign."
God I am usually happy after a Checkpoint, and I was but damn the after party was a downer.
Has anyone stopped to tell Kathleen that she looks strikingly similar to Janine Melnitz in the first Ghostbusters movie? No? I can't be the only one who sees it...😅
If only I knew where my 3DS was
Love Kathleen's cup in a mug
We stan Kathleen's metaphorical mic drop
Thank you for sharing the info Kathleen, I’m going to test how my 3DS games are holding up. 👍
Also, the audacity of that executive who recognized that workplace discrimination based on identity is a thing, but still being unable to see his own privilege would baffling, if life hasn’t shown me the ways in which white men fail to recognize systemic discrimination while simultaneously getting upset when things don’t go their way 100% of the time. 🙄
Oh, how I would *love* to be the judge that handles his filed suit...
There probably *will* be some overcorrective discrimination, I think we're already seeing that in part with college applications in some areas, but it's not going to be hitting executive positions in corporations for decades at least. I'll always be a little leery of things like that not being taken seriously. Just comes with growing up not having my own issues taken seriously, I can't help but think "yeah but what if its true though". When I was struggling in school the school's response was to try and get me to drop out so I wouldn't affect their graduation rate stats.
Thanks for this.
"probably not for the reason you think" would sound more natural to me if it were "not for the reason you probably think"
Age discrimination is real. This was not age discrimination.
Do I want to feel old? No. RL does that enough to me already, thanks.
No no no, making a Mickey Most game is cool now that he's in the public domain.
The end result is unfortunate for VAs but I do think it's just a reflection of the actual market power of the workers here. If SAG just outright said no AI games companies would just use VAs not covered by sag both foreign and domestic. VAs aren't the selling point for a majority of games like actors are for movies and tv so they really just don't have the same bargaining power.
algorithmic punch!
The issue with Valve just saying "you can't use generative AI that uses copyrighted material" is that all generative AI models so far are made with millions and millions of copyrighted material. So, it's a hollow notion.
Welp. Now I'm EVEN MORE upset that I put off sending my 3DS in for repairs until Nintendo stopped doing 3DS repairs. And then put off finding someone else who could do 3DS repairs until... Well, now. And probably for a while after now. God I hate my laziness...
Hate the industry that promotes cutting corners at the expense of data integrity over time instead, comrade.
@@LexYeen No, I think my laziness is the primary culprit for my current inability to play any of my DS/3DS library.
So this happens with Switch games too?! What a load of horse poop.
age-ism is a problem though
also I am concerned about the switch cartridges, cause I have a number of them
the thing about the video game voice ai thing is video games are the only place where a generative ai voice would be ADDING to the art of the game instead of just being a cheap way not to pay VAs as much. In many games there would be an added realism if the commentators could react generatively towards the actions that are taking place in game (apparently the finals already has this and i didnt notice when i played it once) but i play a lot of sports sims with the commentators turned off because even with recording tens of thousands of voice lines and having them played dynamically when certain flags are met its still old and boring. (also being against ai because of copyright law is extremely ironic since copright law only benefits companies not artists)
It is really really hard to force an AI image generator to refuse to make a children. presumably because we are terrible.
Huh,
I would think you could just exclude children from the training set?
Or do you mean like, to make a wrapper around it that verbally refuses?
@drdca8263 you can do that. However, most of the available products just take images wholesale out of things like Google. If you're willing to take the time to meticulously curate literally millions of images, then you can do it. And more importantly, you have to be aware of how versatile you want the ai to be. If you want it make generally anything you can't exclude images like a class photo or medical imagery. If you look up most of the sites that specifically cater to ai pornography you will see that you are very limited in what a user can input specifically to prevent that sort of abuse.
@@alexfranz817 Hm,
well, if you first train a model to answer the question “does this image include a child (or a person who looks like a child)” (which could probably have reasonably high accuracy when trained on not-so-big datasets), and use that, as well as checking for the phrases in any of the captions,
I think that could exclude a large fraction of the images of children, and also any text that seems associated with children as captions,
so even if a few images of children were in the data set, there mostly wouldn’t be any words that would be associated with them?
Though, personally I think I’d be more interested in a dataset that excludes all depictions of persons. That would be of less use to horny people qua horny people.
@@drdca8263 the more things you wanted capable of doing the larger the data set you need
why does this episode feel greenscreen
The SAG voice actor story pisses me off so much
Yay checkpoint
woooooooooooooooooooooo CHECK POINT
There were only 3 stories! Where’s sexpoint to plug up the hole this week?
Beej is busy with his 3DS collection.
the sag aftra deal with AI companies was a positive protection for voice actors. Who, according to their deal, have to be compensated for generated content using their voices AND have total control of *how* said voices are used. How do i know this and you dont? do you guys only read the titles and not the articles?
The whole copyright debate around AI is just stupid. It doesn't matter if the AI was trained on copyrighted works, as you are allowed to privately use such works as you wish. And any results of that are clearly transformative - until the ai generates copyright-infringing material.
In other words, arguing against it is like saying babies and children are not allowed to watch copyrighted movies, because they might draw infringing art, or write infringing fiction.
But just like such a child doing that, this means that using ai to generate your game is risky, as like how the parent selling their childrens mickey mouse drawings as merch might infringe the copyright or trademark and holds the responsibility is such happens, so too does a developer who sells a game that includes their 'child's' (ai's) output hold responsibility for the content.
Only possible exception is if the customer interacts directly with the ai, prompting it for output. As just like if you sold one-on-one sessions with your drawing-prodigy to draw stuff on the customers request, doing the same with your ai obfuscates where the responsibility lies - if any.
TL;DR - AI should legally be treated same as children are: irresponsible entities of chaos whose expression is the responsibility of their guardian/handler, or whoever manipulates them.
ps: and if it wasn't clear, just like someone mimicking a persons likeness or voice (with the intent and quality that people are fooled into thinking it is legit) without their permission is performing an illegal act, so should an AI doing it be. People own their own identity and traits.
A child has other influences, as well as their own unique neurology. "Generative AI," on the other hand, is neither truly generative, nor AI in any of the senses that most people think of when they use the term. It is capable of nothing more complex than regurgitating an amalgamation of the works it was trained on. It does not have a mind of its own, and it does not create so much as replicate. They are not able to _think._ _That_ is why people (rightly) regard at least the prominent publicly available models as mass plagiarism machines.
And yes, you are allowed to _privately_ use copyrighted works under some circumstances. What we are talking about is _commercially_ using copyrighted works. If you somehow don't get that these works are, in fact, being used directly, and not merely as inspiration, kindly reread the preceding paragraph.
@@jemolk8945 I don't think anyone thinks "AGI" (artificial general intelligence - despite current context, don't confuse "general" with "generative") when they hear "ai" nowadays. Marketing firms has made extra sure to kill that connotation in a fire through their overuse of it as a buzzword.
"It is capable of nothing more complex than regurgitating an amalgamation of the works it was trained on."
Exactly like a human. Which is why it is such an apt analogy.
"it does not create so much as replicate"
Much like pretty much all we humans do too, aside from a few blind strokes of genius - which from our perception even LLMs can do (and more commonly do really, since they are more vulnerable to what has been coined "hallucinating", aka saying wildly nonsensical stuff).
"What we are talking about is commercially using copyrighted works."
No, the training is done privately, the resulting math monster is what is commercial. That is like saying that you can't let your kids watch disney movies
"being used directly"
Again, you misunderstood how it works. They are, quite literally (using the proper meaning of that word) being used _indirectly._ The copyrighted material is used to train a model, and then the model is used to generate things. _At least_ one layer of indirection, though more can be argued depending how you look at it.
Overall, I think your mistake seems to lay mainly in that you think generating a result based on an input, means that the result is invariably always going to be very much alike the result (something akin to an identity-function; when in reality a better analogy would be more like a very high-order polynomial function - the error between output and input can vary wildly and extremely unlikely to be low, and even the proportionality (derivates and multi-order derivates) is, to a human, nil). Additionally, the matter of fact is such that the sheer amount of data used makes any "identity"-like behaviour *_extraordinarily_* unlikely (because its parameters are adjusted by each data-item), unless you explicitly give it an input designed to produce a certain output (in which case, again, you could just as well ask your kids to draw a certain image). And even if you train it on a much smaller Set, it is _still_ extremely likely for some random output to be outright plagiarism.
In short, it is possible to generate content that _isn't_ outright plagiarism.
All that is beside the point I was making though, as my point is that plagiarism is not in the act of training, but rather that just like the actions a tiny being of irresponsible chaos (child) is the responsibility of its guardian, so should the "actions" (output) of any algorithm be the responsibility of the person handling it (and as we are talking copyright, this means the person sharing/selling said output/content).
To put it into perspective: if someone used all voice-actors voices to train an ai to create voice recordings of text, then the issue is not that they used their voices to train it. Instead, *it is if they use it to generate said voice recordings, and they didn't turn out to be distinctly unique* (at least to the extent that someone who knows the voice of a voice-actor can tell the difference in a blind test with any reasonable accuracy - without resorting to something like sound-artefacts or recording quality), but still proceeded to use said recordings commercially.
Don't accuse the internal processes (of the company) as plagiarism, accuse based on the products the company produce instead.
@@feha92 I think you seriously underestimate how much goes into creating any sort of work for a human. These bots simply mash together the data they've been fed, and have nothing else to draw from whatsoever. Human artists draw from other art they've seen, yes, but they also draw from their own experiences outside of art. Humans are capable of bringing in ideas and viewpoints that were not previously represented. AI, as it exists now, is not. Whatever output they create will be no more than a remix of what already exists. I, and most artists, regard this as a rather significant difference.
Furthermore, the copyrighted works are being used to generate a commercial product. The AI is a commercial product. The training data defines what kinds of works it can output, and the styles it can recreate. It can do nothing not represented in its training data. Ergo, that training data is being used for commercial purposes.
Also -- a major test for fair use of copyrighted material is about whether it makes the original redundant. The point of the AI push, as far as companies are concerned, is to make the artists themselves redundant by creating machines that can output close-enough facsimiles of the work those artists had previously been doing. You might say that's not legally quite the same thing. Sure. Ethically, however, it is the same concept, but much, _much_ worse, and we can and should demand limits to its use at the _very_ least.
Here's the thing- the AI isn't, by itself, generating art. It's a human person, using a tool that was made from scraping copyrighted data, made by other humans, generating something. You need to look up the chain and find the human, as software isn't by itself a legal entity.
To paraphase your own statement: AI should legally be treated same as Photoshop is: irresponsible computer programs whose output is the responsibility of their maker, or whoever uses them.
Besides, even if you ignore all the moral and legal stuff- does Steam really wanna risk publishing a game that used training material from, say, Disney?
@@jemolk8945 No I know humans take a lot of work to get things done. It is why we are inventing ai in the first place - we are slow. But quantity/velocity does not matter when it comes to ethics and whether something is a copyright infringement.
And saying it just "remixes the training data" is a reductionist way to phrase it, as that makes it sound as if it just cuts and pastes like a remix-creator cuts and pastes the mix-tape's tape. AI and humans, both, "remix" their experiences to create something new, and so long as the output is distinctly unique, saying the artist plagiarised you just because you know they read your book in school-curriculum is both petty, mistaken, and demeaning.
Copyright is not a transitive property in the way you described there. Again, what you describe is that a child drawing art you sell makes the child a commercial product, and letting them watch a movie is plagiarism no matter that the art had nothing to do with the movie.
No, if the art _is_ plagiarising something, then the *_art_* is the plagiarism. Not the kid, nor the movie-time.
Finally, you are saying yourself that it isn't plagiarism? Because it doesn't make the original art redundant. Only the artist (by sheer drawing speed).
I would argue not even the artist is redundant (yet), because ai at it's current state is only going to devolve over time as it trains on datasets produced by other ai's, with no refinement based on a metric of what is "good" art - or at least not a metric that corresponds to a humans.
But yes, I do agree that - as its own topic - turning a trade redundant is its own issue. But it has nothing to do with copyright/plagiarism, not legally nor ethically - I disagree about that. And the solution is not to just gimp the ai's training data, instead it (or rather one solution, the one that promotes ensuring humans place in a trade is guaranteed) would be to have legislation on its _use._
Personally though, I think it should be used rather freely too (and only the output is limited by copyright laws), and that either artists needs to draw art it just can't (have you tried asking the current iteration for a spritesheet of animated frames? or images with text), draw better (training data means bias, something a human is still uniquely superior in reflecting on and avoiding), or even draw with ai as a tool in their toolset (and so on. As for drawing faster, that is where). Essentially, to find a niche in the market as the market improves, much like how many trades has been phased out over the millenia as our crafts, knowledge, and technology advanced to make them less and less relevant (while spawning even more new ones).
The blizzard story is hilarious because its literally provable to court the company discriminated IN FAVOUR OF old white guys in every conceivable way, and here's an old white guy mad they didn't discriminate enough
It's like a male college student starting a discrimination lawsuit at the time when colleges started admitting women, its wild.
Also i love that hes basically confirming the statement about him having white male privilege. Not that it needed confirmation but like, the lack of awareness is astounding. Hes an old white dude in a room full of old white dudes all in leadership positions in a company with a terrible toxic culture towards anyone who isn't an old white dude and he genuinely thinks that someone telling him he has privilege others don't or that the overrepresentation of his group due to discrimination somehow makes him a victim. Wild
That mario screen thing is so flat as a paper.
Ugh some of these skids are so 2000 and should have stayed that, don’t try to act like you guys know that the younger generation like, you only look like idiots doing so. Just talk like normal adults.
I can't stand activision/blizzard, but I believe the exec.
Sometimes I am forcibly reminded that I do not have much political sympathy with LRR.
Y'all actually seemed kind of sexist here, which feels weird.
uhhh... where/when? because I didn't get that vibe at all.
I feel like I'm not so much going out on a limb as hugging tightly to the trunk of the tree when I say your comment doesn't hold water.
@@dandylionwine One of OP's subscriptions is to Sargon of Akkad, which I think clarifies things/confirms folks' suspicions.
@@dandylionwine Nice one!
@@PharaohBender27 Thought I unsubscribed to him after the stupid take he made about the black men who were obviously being discriminated against at the Starbucks. I guess the internet is forever.