This is true. Honestly most people don’t even realize how big you can get naturally. Even somebody with poor genetics can get big. Most people give up before they have truly maxed their natural potential
@@thefreshprince310 yeah, but people talk about genetics like some magic power that makes you grow muscle super fast when the difference it gives is really small
I was very close to jumping on gear when my best friend did. But I said to myself: lets try doing everything I can do naturally first. After half a year of being really strict with my nutrition and doing periodized training 6x a week, I actually build an incredible amount of mass.
If you will never compete and dont care to have a crazy low body fat level then its very possible to build mass naturally. Building the muscle isnt the problem for natural bodybuilders. Its the contest prep.
This is very true. I’m 41 natty and I see videos of people with less muscle mass than myself and see people saying they’re not natty. Greg Doucette is guilty of this.
First of all, RIP the dog. Second of all, I was on a path of dying from malnutrition from being economically challenged some 5 years ago. Cause I endured Injuries that could have ended my life and somehow didnt, I decided to change that. Let me tell you. I have put on 40 pounds of MUSCLEMASS by training with correct form, consistently, even with injuries limiting what I could do. It was laughably easy and you can do it to, without any gear.
I’m not defeatist in my natural body. I know all my strength comes from my mind my nuts and my spirit. It gives me an edge. I don’t need the help. And yet I am stronger today than I have ever been. That’s all I gotta be.
Not true! My brother has been lifting weights for the last 25 years ! He looks great ! He only used protein powder. He always took ginger and turmeric , ashwaganda root and I use to ignorantly clown him ! He has achieved leanest and muscle growth and that's a understatement. He never had a injury, I think his routine was taking his time ! He started to show strength and physical looking around his third year but after that he transformed in the Hulk.
Notice how he didn't say it was possible to be very muscular and very lean AT THE SAME TIME.... So except for the genetic freak outliers. That's the difference between the sauce and the natural. Lifetime total Naturals almost always have to choose 1.
There is an "in-between" if you keep a bf% of around 10 to 15% depending on your genetics where you can look kinda muscular and kinda lean at the same time as a natty
@AaronBrown-rr6yu “Embrace the inner oaf” - I like that! My cousin said I’m an Orc haha. We probably have a few things in common. I’m 43 and ex-US Navy.
I'm 68. Had prostate cancer. Took 44 radiation treatments. My testosterone is 161. Thats low. But I lift weights at home 5X a week. I will be big like CT Fletcher said,if its the last fuck*n thing I do!😅
All depends on the mindset....... however other variables do come into play, genetics being the most dominant factor of dictating what can be perceivably achieved among other things.......
Weather short or tall. You have to build the frame. At each respect stage peak, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Frank Zane were kind of similar in proportionally. One was 6'2" at 235 lbs on stage while the other was 5'7" at 195 lbs.
I’m not serious enough to consider not being natural. But, I do wonder how many people decide to pack it in before they’ve actually realised their potential, optimising workouts, sleep, nutrition before deciding to jump on the juice. Because I’ve never taken it seriously enough to actually optimise all those factors I think it would be ridiculous to start a cycle
Results require discipline intensity and patience. Most people are easily influenced by that guy who isn't honest about his own results it doesn't happen overnight
Im 44 years old and have a very endurance cardio heavy job. There is no way I can bulk and maintain a small waist with abs. My chest and delts are near peak size, close to when i was much heavier and bulking when I was 10 years younger. My lats are huge but the rest of me is small because I have a tiny 5'7 frame. If I didn't lift I would be the same size as a 14 year old boy. Women give compliments about my physique when im naked, but in clothes, only women who like smaller men even know I lift.
Back in around 2000 I’m so glad I believed the bullshit I read in the magazines how Shawn Ray & Ernie Taylor claimed to be natural, at 18 I believed them back then and kept on going to attain a decent physique naturally
I don't think there is a limit to naturals If you stay consistent with eating and lifting for 10-15 years you can achieve what an enhanced guy can get to in bout a year 😂 Naw but that kind of dedication can make people assume a natty is on gear it just takes us a hell of a lot longer to get there
@@Resistculturaldecline Definitely. That's what they pay for and more power to em. I will never be an Open Olympia monster but if I can get to half of that I'm cool
I mean people also need to realise that ALOT of very jacked natural dudes are comically short. Short people look very full and yoked with the same muscle mass that a 6 foot dude would simply look athletic with.
It's always interesting to me how people clearly on gear talk about natural lifting all the time and claim no one should do it. John obviously was on gear, not sure if he ever admitted it. And Jeff Nippard is one of the biggest fake nattys around.
Natural looks better and more aesthetic than the lab experiments with the freaky and unnatural looks and what are you really achieving if you get sick and die at a very young age, stay Natural and healthy,having bigger muscles doesn't mean having better muscles, quality over quantity
If your a natural u have to train hard and less meaning no more than 3 days weights 1 day cardio. Muscle needs time to recover and grow. Day=time. Eat good nutrition in a small surplus
@@highlightreel8134 that’s not true. There’s a lot more people on gear that you’d never expect. Those well developed usually simply are on gear. Natural bodybuilders are really really tiny.
I don't think naturals can be big and shredded at the same time all of the time. Either one or the other unless they're competing and dying at single digit body fat.
To be honest I'm just tired of genetically elite top .001% talk about what's naturally achievable. Like yeah, you put on muscle easily, that's great for you. Someone like me works just as hard if not harder and ends up looking like a fat distance runner. And i get I'm probably the other side .01% of trash genetics but it really is annoying hearing it from those people.
To be honest; you’re average guy actually won’t be able to achieve much naturally. Most people who work out aren’t even able to get noticeable abs or bench 225. Your average person works a job, has kids, other commitments, etc. and they simply can’t devote a lot of time or energy into lifting and diet planning. Their only shit at a nice physique is shortcuts
You can get as big as you want naturally. You have to eat. A lot. Training is training, everyone trains, but you have to be willing to have some fat on.
The problem is as follows. Unless all other areas of your life are in check and you are fulfilled in the ways a person desires i.e. money,job,relationship. Then I submitted to the Comment crowd that the only fulfilling thing will be progress in the gym/physic and you will never big/strong/lean enough. Chasing the dragon body dismorphia.. You will attempt to extract things from exercising and dieting that it could never produce.
If you look at natural professional bodybuilding you unfortunately will see this is true. I don’t mean to sound harsh but being 185 and below on stage is not big.
It really depends individually by the persons opinion. Most people consider me a natural, big guy. I don't but most people do. You can't eecape the fact people have different perspectives.
Yeah,it's like that wave of "we all can become programmers" that used to be a few years ago,no some of you mfs don't have the mind for it,it's the same with fitness,most guys out there will never have that instagram physique because first they don't have the muscle bellies and insertions,and 2nd in order to have good muscle mass you need to be stronger than average
It all depends on what lift and what your BW is. Everyone well 99% has strong and weak muscle groups for instance I am 150lb and can deadlift 150KG 1RPM but can only bench 80KG. Depending on the lift try to figure out where your true sticking point is (so usually in the most stretched position and work on this). I have found that leaving the particular lift alone for a few weeks can help or even doing the lift at high rep low weight for a while can oddly gain you that 10 lbs when you go back to try your 1rm.
@@muadack3972 unless they are already fairly lean DO NOT BULK. You can get stronger naturally in a deficit as long as its not severe (say 100 cal) if you are over 15% BF or so. You literally have excess calories on your body in the way of fat. Listen to Jonni Shreeve on this matter, in fact before you say you can't. you 100% can because I have got stronger natty in a deficit. Just make sure you keep a decent carb intake on training days in my experience. I agree it's nuanced and juicing is different but seen plenty of natural lifters already at high BF bulk, build muscle and strength but end up a fat mess go on a drastic cut get weaker than they ever were, lose the muscle they gained and end up in a vicious cycle. I suppose you are correct that to just gain strength bulking would be the optimal way but unless you are lean don't go there.
@@leecourtney1225 you're response doesn't make any sense. This person has been training for 10 years obviously he hasn't gained any significant strength with maintenance calories. They need to bulk not continue eating at maintenance
@Vanilla Jack I started using around 35. Been on and off for 9 years now. Sometimes I'll ramp up the dosage near summer. Maybe add some dbols. Tried MK677 for the 1st time this year. Seems to be decent. I'll do it again next year.
@@fridayrandommedia117 There is no one with these proportions that is natty. If it was possible there would be others. Gullible as hell to think he's natty. "Why would he lie?" "He seems so innocent" $$$
Yet most elite lifetime non-enhanced competitive bodybuilders make almost every non-enhanced/former enhanced gym member and some enhanced bodybuilders look like complete crap
Friends and I have been lifting for over 30 years and never got big and muscular. 100% natural doesn't work unless you have perfect genetics. I know lots of guys on DBOL, they're all huge. Now at 50, all I can hope to do is slow the aging process.
This is true. Honestly most people don’t even realize how big you can get naturally. Even somebody with poor genetics can get big. Most people give up before they have truly maxed their natural potential
@Jamie Alexander I got told I'm on the sauce many times. Low fat + good vascular genetics + 10 years of lifting will give that impression...
and people seriously blaming genetics like, bad genetics would not be having arms and legs or weird muscle insertions
@@roywempor8395 that’s literally genetics bro😂 muscle insertion is 100% dictated by this
@@thefreshprince310 yeah, but people talk about genetics like some magic power that makes you grow muscle super fast when the difference it gives is really small
@@roywempor8395 lmao keep telling yourself that 💀 " the difference is really small " 🤦♂️
John is the goat
Yes I still watch his videos and learn to this day 🙌 RIP to the 🐐
I will reach my natural genetic potential. Might take ten years, but my ancestors will be proud
I’m with you on that one bro🙏🏽💪🏽
People like Alphadestiny/Alex Leonidas have been training properly for more than 10 years and are still gaining muscle naturally
Very perspicacious of you.
Try 17 years
I was very close to jumping on gear when my best friend did. But I said to myself: lets try doing everything I can do naturally first. After half a year of being really strict with my nutrition and doing periodized training 6x a week, I actually build an incredible amount of mass.
@todor7906 it does not matter that much
@@trashcan6751 actually it does, if ur shorter it's way faster as compared to a tall person.
@@nelsonkiiru7252yep. generally requires less effort as well, eg range of motion for just about everything wrt short vs tall is vastly different...
I really miss this man 😞
John was a gem in the world of fitness, still doing some of the exercises he recommended for years now
“Can’t be it’s impossible” gotta love John RIP mountain dog ❤
Natural and always been. I look better then a lot of the guys at the gym. I will never be massive, but I look good.
If you will never compete and dont care to have a crazy low body fat level then its very possible to build mass naturally. Building the muscle isnt the problem for natural bodybuilders. Its the contest prep.
Christopher wtf are you doing here 🤣🤣
Agreed 🤝
I had big biceps since I was 13, training with terrible form and no experience in my room. People now think I juiced to get them now as 36 yr old
Two great minds. Rest in peace Mountain Dog ❤
57 yrs old PRO NATTY CLASSIC CHAMPION still Competing 2023
💪🏽✝️💪🏽
Go natty it last a Lifetime
NGA -NATIONAL GYM ASSOCIATION
MR AMERICA 🇺🇸
ANBF / USBF
✊🏽
Well put!
This is very true. I’m 41 natty and I see videos of people
with less muscle mass than myself and see people saying they’re not natty. Greg Doucette is guilty of this.
First of all, RIP the dog.
Second of all, I was on a path of dying from malnutrition from being economically challenged some 5 years ago. Cause I endured Injuries that could have ended my life and somehow didnt, I decided to change that. Let me tell you. I have put on 40 pounds of MUSCLEMASS by training with correct form, consistently, even with injuries limiting what I could do. It was laughably easy and you can do it to, without any gear.
i think it's opposite. everyone overestimates how big they can get naturally, and how fast. so theyre always dissapointed and it gets to them
I really miss John 😢
Miss you John
I’m not defeatist in my natural body. I know all my strength comes from my mind my nuts and my spirit. It gives me an edge. I don’t need the help. And yet I am stronger today than I have ever been. That’s all I gotta be.
I also get my strength from my nuts
Not true! My brother has been lifting weights for the last 25 years ! He looks great ! He only used protein powder. He always took ginger and turmeric , ashwaganda root and I use to ignorantly clown him ! He has achieved leanest and muscle growth and that's a understatement. He never had a injury, I think his routine was taking his time ! He started to show strength and physical looking around his third year but after that he transformed in the Hulk.
Hate to break it to ya bud, but if his muscle growth exploded on year 3 he's on the juice
Notice how he didn't say it was possible to be very muscular and very lean AT THE SAME TIME.... So except for the genetic freak outliers. That's the difference between the sauce and the natural. Lifetime total Naturals almost always have to choose 1.
There is an "in-between" if you keep a bf% of around 10 to 15% depending on your genetics where you can look kinda muscular and kinda lean at the same time as a natty
@@zezeti2246 yes that's why i did mention "very". I.e. what the fitness social media world expects🤣
As a former football lineman I can relate to this. I’ve got a ton of muscle but can’t lean out to save my life… go figure.
@AaronBrown-rr6yu “Embrace the inner oaf” - I like that! My cousin said I’m an Orc haha. We probably have a few things in common. I’m 43 and ex-US Navy.
Even with low testosterone you can put on a lot of muscle. It's just gonna take more time than for someone with high testosterone.
I'm 68. Had prostate cancer. Took 44 radiation treatments. My testosterone is 161. Thats low. But I lift weights at home 5X a week. I will be big like CT Fletcher said,if its the last fuck*n thing I do!😅
All depends on the mindset....... however other variables do come into play, genetics being the most dominant factor of dictating what can be perceivably achieved among other things.......
How tall an weight of Jeff nippard?
He is 4’5
He’s like 5’5” 160 or 170 something like that
with 15s lol
😂
He's 165cm
You can hypothetically. It just takes a long while and you need to break the ceiling inside you with all the natural help you need.
not talking bout himself obviously
He literally is. He's super short, why he looks super big.
Weather short or tall. You have to build the frame. At each respect stage peak, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Frank Zane were kind of similar in proportionally.
One was 6'2" at 235 lbs on stage while the other was 5'7" at 195 lbs.
I’m not serious enough to consider not being natural. But, I do wonder how many people decide to pack it in before they’ve actually realised their potential, optimising workouts, sleep, nutrition before deciding to jump on the juice. Because I’ve never taken it seriously enough to actually optimise all those factors I think it would be ridiculous to start a cycle
It helps to be like 4ft 11 too.
Results require discipline intensity and patience. Most people are easily influenced by that guy who isn't honest about his own results it doesn't happen overnight
Noble natties in the comment section have been summoned
Im 44 years old and have a very endurance cardio heavy job. There is no way I can bulk and maintain a small waist with abs. My chest and delts are near peak size, close to when i was much heavier and bulking when I was 10 years younger.
My lats are huge but the rest of me is small because I have a tiny 5'7 frame. If I didn't lift I would be the same size as a 14 year old boy.
Women give compliments about my physique when im naked, but in clothes, only women who like smaller men even know I lift.
Women are a great example
Women are using as well so why would they be a great example
Back in around 2000 I’m so glad I believed the bullshit I read in the magazines how Shawn Ray & Ernie Taylor claimed to be natural, at 18 I believed them back then and kept on going to attain a decent physique naturally
Have we forgotten the prison system...
Sum big boys in der trust me😂😂😂
greek statues were made through a chisel and hammer, not a 3d printer and sandpaper.
I don't think there is a limit to naturals
If you stay consistent with eating and lifting for 10-15 years you can achieve what an enhanced guy can get to in bout a year 😂
Naw but that kind of dedication can make people assume a natty is on gear it just takes us a hell of a lot longer to get there
In the end, all things being equal the enhanced trained are substantially bigger and can do so leaner.
@@Resistculturaldecline Definitely. That's what they pay for and more power to em. I will never be an Open Olympia monster but if I can get to half of that I'm cool
On the gear
Its not healthy though i remember joint achiness all the time, night sweats, trying everything in my power not to do cardio.
I'm only comparing to myself so being natural is easy
I mean people also need to realise that ALOT of very jacked natural dudes are comically short. Short people look very full and yoked with the same muscle mass that a 6 foot dude would simply look athletic with.
Its alot harder for people that aren't 5'5. That's not a knock btw
It's always interesting to me how people clearly on gear talk about natural lifting all the time and claim no one should do it. John obviously was on gear, not sure if he ever admitted it. And Jeff Nippard is one of the biggest fake nattys around.
Natural looks better and more aesthetic than the lab experiments with the freaky and unnatural looks and what are you really achieving if you get sick and die at a very young age, stay Natural and healthy,having bigger muscles doesn't mean having better muscles, quality over quantity
If your a natural u have to train hard and less meaning no more than 3 days weights 1 day cardio. Muscle needs time to recover and grow. Day=time. Eat good nutrition in a small surplus
Most people are just lazy and insecure so write off other’s hard work to gear.
People do be using gear tho
@@soonahero absolutely. Still got work tho. But there’s a lot more natties getting accused of gear then people using gear.
@@highlightreel8134 that’s not true. There’s a lot more people on gear that you’d never expect. Those well developed usually simply are on gear. Natural bodybuilders are really really tiny.
@@soonahero “really really tiny” 💀. If you lazy and jealous of big people just say that.
@@highlightreel8134 if they’re big they aren’t bodybuilders. Even the national champions are smaller than the average American guy
I don't think naturals can be big and shredded at the same time all of the time. Either one or the other unless they're competing and dying at single digit body fat.
Yep. The chemistry set and operations software is different between those whom are on and those whom aren't.
You can be damn good naturally
To be honest I'm just tired of genetically elite top .001% talk about what's naturally achievable.
Like yeah, you put on muscle easily, that's great for you. Someone like me works just as hard if not harder and ends up looking like a fat distance runner. And i get I'm probably the other side .01% of trash genetics but it really is annoying hearing it from those people.
You can be either *but you can't be both unless you have some absurdly gifted genetics
A (low level of leanness) i high level would be like 15 to 17
To be honest; you’re average guy actually won’t be able to achieve much naturally. Most people who work out aren’t even able to get noticeable abs or bench 225. Your average person works a job, has kids, other commitments, etc. and they simply can’t devote a lot of time or energy into lifting and diet planning. Their only shit at a nice physique is shortcuts
❤️🙌
And what is THAT limitation... ?
You can get as big as you want naturally. You have to eat. A lot. Training is training, everyone trains, but you have to be willing to have some fat on.
sure you can get big and fat or small and lean and some geneticly giftrd people can get a mix of both
The guy on the bottom is trying to hide his jaw line, showing that he I'd indeed using something he should not be,that's my opinion
Just eat and grow. Or slow and sleep
It’s achievable for people 5.4 but let me see natural 6.0 and above natural as big as you
Let the expert communicate....
You can achieve natural if you don't work and have the money for the nutrition and have all day to train
RIP Jeff Cavaliere
Underrated comment.
Jetrr Fr cavalier isn’t dead😭
The problem is as follows. Unless all other areas of your life are in check and you are fulfilled in the ways a person desires i.e. money,job,relationship. Then I submitted to the Comment crowd that the only fulfilling thing will be progress in the gym/physic and you will never big/strong/lean enough. Chasing the dragon body dismorphia.. You will attempt to extract things from exercising and dieting that it could never produce.
Jeff Willett and Skip LaCour > Jeff
🙌
Still juiced to the gills so
Natural or not its still hard work that makes the difference and also good genetics, good sleep, good diet .
If you look at natural professional bodybuilding you unfortunately will see this is true. I don’t mean to sound harsh but being 185 and below on stage is not big.
i dont think jeff is natural
It really depends individually by the persons opinion. Most people consider me a natural, big guy. I don't but most people do. You can't eecape the fact people have different perspectives.
Most can't. You need good genetics and inserts, plus other things. You can achieve many things but not what most want to achieve feom what they see
Yeah,it's like that wave of "we all can become programmers" that used to be a few years ago,no some of you mfs don't have the mind for it,it's the same with fitness,most guys out there will never have that instagram physique because first they don't have the muscle bellies and insertions,and 2nd in order to have good muscle mass you need to be stronger than average
Im glad to be natural and not have a back thats full of gross acne like i see all the time at the gym
Thats rich coming from a fake natty
I'm lifting for 10 year still I can't achieve 100 kg lift naturally. I can't lift 100 kg till now naturally. I'm 10 kg far from lift.
You're definitely not eating enough calories
It all depends on what lift and what your BW is. Everyone well 99% has strong and weak muscle groups for instance I am 150lb and can deadlift 150KG 1RPM but can only bench 80KG. Depending on the lift try to figure out where your true sticking point is (so usually in the most stretched position and work on this). I have found that leaving the particular lift alone for a few weeks can help or even doing the lift at high rep low weight for a while can oddly gain you that 10 lbs when you go back to try your 1rm.
@@leecourtney1225 if this person wants to get stronger they need to bulk while still continuing to work out
@@muadack3972 unless they are already fairly lean DO NOT BULK. You can get stronger naturally in a deficit as long as its not severe (say 100 cal) if you are over 15% BF or so. You literally have excess calories on your body in the way of fat. Listen to Jonni Shreeve on this matter, in fact before you say you can't. you 100% can because I have got stronger natty in a deficit. Just make sure you keep a decent carb intake on training days in my experience. I agree it's nuanced and juicing is different but seen plenty of natural lifters already at high BF bulk, build muscle and strength but end up a fat mess go on a drastic cut get weaker than they ever were, lose the muscle they gained and end up in a vicious cycle. I suppose you are correct that to just gain strength bulking would be the optimal way but unless you are lean don't go there.
@@leecourtney1225 you're response doesn't make any sense. This person has been training for 10 years obviously he hasn't gained any significant strength with maintenance calories. They need to bulk not continue eating at maintenance
Nahhh i think i can do it naturally
Na people just don't push themselves
I dont think you can look like much naturally after around the age of 40
Maybe so, I'm 46 and look pretty good, but I'm thinking TRT is in my near future..
@Vanilla Jack I started using around 35. Been on and off for 9 years now. Sometimes I'll ramp up the dosage near summer. Maybe add some dbols. Tried MK677 for the 1st time this year. Seems to be decent. I'll do it again next year.
Because its obvious. Period.
Try being a natural single guy in a tinder viagra / cialis world. All “real” tho….. right? 🥴
What on earth are you babbling on about?...
It’s funny because it barely makes sense but I totally understood 😂
Well Nippard there ain't a natty.😑
Jeff has used juice. If you believe otherwise, you probably believed Liver King.
He's small and not that lean.. why wouldn't i
When did he use juice? Or is this just an assumption 💀
@@fridayrandommedia117 There is no one with these proportions that is natty. If it was possible there would be others. Gullible as hell to think he's natty. "Why would he lie?" "He seems so innocent" $$$
@@maxdamagusbroski You're simply wrong.
@@maxdamagusbroski This just tells me you need to spend more time outside lol
Beard transplant
Dude looks and sound like what a women who's going through transition into a man lol
Everything is business
You aren’t getting big naturally. Been lifting hard for 15 years and don’t know a person who I would consider “big” and are natural.
He thinks he is natural 😂
Only a fake natty obsesses over this.
Didn’t Nippard compete in competitions? That automatically means you haven’t been natural this whole time.
they were natural competitions and he claims natty, whether you choose to believe him is your own prerogative
@@sw-gz9ps lol ok well I definitely don’t believe him.
Clueless
@@AP-to3hz that’s a solid comeback with solid reasoning..
@@BobRoss-wm3lc you must be a very small person
🤣no,at least from my experience,you need good muscle insertions and above average strength to look unnatural while natty
yup they can't. it's not a defeated mentality. it's just true. and both of you are far being natural
Natural bodybuilders are like vegans. Nobody cares but feel compelled to tell everyone.
😂😂
And a lot like vegans most of them cheat.
Yes
Yet most elite lifetime non-enhanced competitive bodybuilders make almost every non-enhanced/former enhanced gym member and some enhanced bodybuilders look like complete crap
Friends and I have been lifting for over 30 years and never got big and muscular. 100% natural doesn't work unless you have perfect genetics. I know lots of guys on DBOL, they're all huge. Now at 50, all I can hope to do is slow the aging process.
Jeff ain't natural!!