INTJ - The Dangerous Ni/Fi Loop
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- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- #intj #mbti #16personalities
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It's extremely important for INTJ to stay away from the envious and the miserable. Other people's insecurities and jealously can throw an INTJ in a loop. Use discernment and trust your instincts.
Needed to read this. Been trying to figure out if I’m being gaslit or just being paranoid. Didn’t help coming across this video. :(
But I’m pretty sure it comes down to the other person’s insecurities.
you can also add close-minded to that list
I had a friend whos been like this. Had to cut him off because its becoming unbearable. Glad im away from all that now
Social media it’s important to stay away from as an INTJ. Has ALL the triggers
Yes I became really pessimistic because of miserable people around me although intj is a romantic thinker
Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean that they're not out to get you.
You're scaring me 🙂
In fact, they want you to think you are just being paranoid.
I laughed so hard when I heard that one years ago... but it also helped me overcome my own paranoia because it's such a - well - paranoid thing to say and I realised that I'd rather not be one of the people who really means that. (Not saying that you meant it - I guess you were joking...)
LMAO are you an INTJ? 😂
@@ChihiroOh Yes, INTJ T
Will i ever experience life? That question poped up in my head today while i was walking through the street, watching the people around me. Sometimes i get so lost in my thoughts that it seems impossible to find my way back into reality. This video came in the perfect timing thanks.
This is an interesting perspective. I’ve noticed for myself that part of me does not want to experience it. Like I’m going to inevitably experience enough that is overwhelming in life. I’d rather keep additional thrill minimal, and stay in my head. The world around me is so inauthentic and surface-level, where I feel so out of place. In my head, where I am constantly observing truths about life, I can be myself. That being said, this is what throws me into my ni-fi loop and causes me much emotional pain
@@melancholicnitefiseVery much this!
i literally have to tell myself at times to “clock out” of my mind because i get way to lost in thought. sometimes i will literally forget to eat
I’m not sure if this is Ni-Fi loop, but I’ve noticed that I fall into these rather pathetic, self-destructive death spirals in which I over ruminate and brood (I jokingly call it “Batmanning” or being in my “Edgar Allen Poe room”). It’s like I get conspiracy theories about myself (don’t measure up, friends are ghosting me because I’m terrible, etc etc). I don’t generally need to socialize, but I find engaging with other people and even just working through simple problems or discussing interesting topics can stop the doom spiral, lol.
Same. I'm an INFJ though 😅
100% relate to the over rumination. Curious about what kind of "simple" problems get you out of the loop?
@@joseMgarcia0711 talking to people about my plans, writing lists of things I need to get done, talking to people about non-emotional topics that interest me (ie astronomy, military history, etc)
Yeyeye friends help me out through this stuff. Not cuz talking abt it but through hanging out with them and doing real world activities. If something forces u out of ur shell its going out with friends
Sounds like autism spectrum disorder
I found the easiest way out is talk to myself via typing or writing, asking myself about my own feelings, Te strikes like a champ and fixes everything
As a self-typed INTJ, I concur with the proclivity of one becoming conspiratorial when caught in an Ni/Fi feedback loop. Nothing is ever ‘quite as it seems’, and one becomes suspicious that everyone is operating with a hidden agenda, or are perhaps aware of some occult knowledge that somehow perfectly corresponds with one’s paranoias. It only takes one brain turned against itself to make a conspiracy ‘real.’ However, I also think of the Ni/Fi loop as being responsible for ‘plotting,’ which can certainly be related to conspiring. To draw a comparison with the Si/Fi loop of an ISTJ for example, who are more likely to feel bad about their person, mentally replay the details of past experiences which summarize and confirm their ‘feeling bad,’ etc. An INTJ will recall feeling deeply violated via the impression left on Fi, but are less likely to feel bad about their person, being more concerned with ruminating and contemplating what they are going ‘to do’ about the situation.
Thanks for this breakdown, Nathan. As an INFJ, I tend to be stuck in a NI/TI loop, so caught up in my ideals, and I need to partake in sensory activities to get out of the loop.
INFJ with Ni-Ti: In the end it doesn't really matter if you have friends or family, everyone has to face own death alone, as miliards of people on this earth before us and miliards of people who will be after us. We will all become just particles of dust, we actually are particles of dust. Should dust worry so much as I do? No, so it doesn't make sense for dust to worry so I'll just stop 😐
INFJ's brain: so what about going to that party we were invited to?
INFJ: 🤢
ESTP subconsious: But if nothing makes sense why don't we go dance get wasted?
If you don't mind, would you be so kind to explain the Ni-Ti loop with more details ??
@@rickthewise6821 I have started writing a comment trying to explain it clearly and have failed to do so. I will use a metaphor instead (hope you will be able to get the point). I feel it as a vacuum that needs to suck all the information from the outside world and place it on the inside. Separate dust and dirt from valuable things. Then map the entire planet one brushstroke at a time, trying to get all the nuances possible, fearful of not getting the “right nuance” while painting and coloring and at the same time realizing where the colors splashed on an area in this world are dark and worrisome and figuring ways to add brushstrokes and colors that make it better. There are other metaphors I could use but nothing simple and straightforward (as of now). As time goes by, I will probably have a way of communicating it clearly. I can actually give you an example. In my case, having people around me who are understanding and appreciative of my way of communicating and being is helpful. Otherwise, I will constantly work and rework on ideas. I have done so today as many times before. I usually need to try several ways of presenting an idea to see which one is perfect. And then doubt the entire approach. Start over. And over. And over again. It is not age related. While I was going to primary and secondary school, I used to study as though I was at University. I would often start at point A and somehow find that that connects to B, then C and D and it was never enough. Unfortunately, this has been really difficult for my mental health. Regardless of it, I still find it hard to just stop. So, having someone around to talk to me and be encouraging (as I usually am towards others) is really helpful (but rare). I think that the second part of my response is a bit clearer but not quite. Although the first is abstract, it does address my way of thinking better.
@@solarisan_ I don't really understand the internal process this represents, but I recognise the shape of it from some of my infj friends. It feels like they're adding in pins into this fluid, shifting map of understanding - and then a particular pin goes in and suddenly it all flips and you're standing in bizarro world. As an entp/intj that can be really unsettling and can trigger off the N-F loop - but then when you actually talk openly together it feels actively stabilising. They have the FS pins I forget, I have the TS pins they forget, and together we can pull things into shapes that make sense for both of us. Isolation is bad for people, but with heavy Ni it can get pretty weird. I've noticed Isfp/esfj istp/estj can all get pretty loopy too.
The thing is, it’s easy to realize one is in a loop, but it’s surprisingly difficult to break through and avoid it happening again, even though the solution is the same EVERY TIME!
I have the Fi-Ni loop (ISFP here), and I tend to spiral into avoidance of reality (Avoid it, avoid everything, avoid yourself and your needs, torture yourself with the guilt, etc.) The answer is ALWAYS act, and it’s always so obvious in retrospect. And yet….
It’s a habit that’s difficult to form, because the behaviour takes place over multiple days, and in a variety of situations.
We’re literally rewiring our mental patterns, so please be kind to yourself if you also find yourself constantly falling into the same pit.❤
There is an INTJ that I love more than life itself. Please, INTJs, seek feedback from your partners, we can't know if you are interpretting something in your mind incorrectly, please seek feedback so we can address anything that makes you feel off before just assigning us our intentions. Same with your own judgements about yourselves, please seek your partners feedback, they are looking from the outside in and may actually have more to add to your own determinations.
Last time, feedback was even worse than I expected
@@Wasp239 I'm sorry to hear that when you sought feedback it was negative. That's never exactly pleasant. Don't forget to try the other things too like write out how you feel, 'touch grass'/get some sensory in, get grounded and calm before you ask. As for the negative feedback you received, maybe you could examine whether that feedback holds some glimmer of truth you can assess for personal improvement, or, you could take it as confirmation of what the other has got wrong about you and uncover 'why' they came to think such. If the person you sought feedback from gives a hoot they will surely want to discuss it. Or, if the feedback is just something bad that is now confirmed, better the confirmation than ignorance yeah? I mean if it's something heinous like "Yes, honey, I am cheating on you." Well... no more wondering now.
The Te coming out to intrude the crisis between Ni and Fi is a great way to overcome it slowly, although as it is itself a slow process, during an overwhelming environment where it forces your Se out too at the same time as Te when you're not ready... the result will be deadly.
And believe me, all I got was broken friendships and hurt feelings. But good thing though is that the Te helps us get to good terms again. But for it to happen, we'd have to hope that the other party understands what our intentions are though.
Edit: added more words to clarify further what the comment meant.
While I am not INTJ, I do have the same dominant (and inferior) function as you. So, I wanted to ask something: If you have a particular question/request and get no answer from the external environment, would you say it adds more uncertainty and contributes to your loop? I have noticed that I am fine with the “great unknown” on my own. I love to figure out things one by one and do so independently. However, unanswered questions (when directed externally to a particular person/group/cause) have resulted with increased level of stress and withdrawal. Is it the same for you? Or not? How does it differ? What has your experience been like? (In case you read these questions).
The 'Practical Tips' visual is so satisfying to look at. Nicely formatted, easy on the eyes, and concise.
Seen this alot in fellow INTJ's ik who just in a constant state of paranoia and they cut it out through Te by just focusing on the real world and doing something to divert their attention. I find some similarities with us INTP's in this aspect too where we get utterly paranoid and start picking out every minor detail but our ways of escaping are generally people and ideas.
Would love to see the next video be on INTP's, great video and advice.
When I'm stuck in a destructive overthinking loop, getting out and "touching grass" is my number one solution. It may not be ideal, but it works. Anyway, I don't think I ever reached paranoia. Sometimes what saves me from this kind of loop is simply pure boredom; it's really like hearing another self say, "Stop being so annoying."
INTJ paranoia is a thing to be reckoned with. My mom has been fully under that Ni-Fi loop spell for a long time. It's hard to watch. Try as I might, INTJs are independent to a fault... it ultimately has to be up to them to break out of it, otherwise they belittle your genuine desire to help. That is, if they even think they need help.
How do you know she is INTJ?
@@amnbvcxz8650 because she is. When I started learning about personality types, it became very obvious. I am closest to her my entire life (of course) and I've observed her demeanor. I've shown her personality typing and, as suspected, she resonates heavily with the INTJ descriptions more than any other. Are you looking for me to give you specific traits and cues?
I found a hack - basically I fabricate a Te-Se "loop", by for instance, starting to do regular house chores or rearranging stuff around the house (simple walk is fine too, but it has no practical function, structure or pattern), while also TALKING OUT LOUD, or rather rationalizing, extracting and objectifying the inner mess that I found myself in. I also presume that this might activate the left side of the brain, which is responsible for logic and word processing - which is why talking is important, no matter how crazy it may sound to do it alone. this has gotten me out of severe psychological agony a few times. I just think that activating both functions at once is more effective. "neurons that wire together, fire together".
As an INTJ, engaging my Te-Se functions has made my life... a better place.
This could have not been posted in a more accurate moment.
Thank you, Nathan
If you are doing Ni too much and overthinking and paranoia, it’s also good to do Ne and look at other perspectives on the other whys.
This is how I tell Ni users to stop looping
You have no idea how useful this video is for me. I'm in a Ni-Fi loop [and I have a huge mental breakdown] for a few months now and I truly didn't know what to do with it and sweets&popcorn weren't helping.
This is pretty damn good editing and explaining, nice one
OMG PLEASE MAKE AN INTP LOOP VIDEO I LOVE THSI
This is one of your best videos yet, and I’m not even an INTJ, it just helped work myself out from comparison!
This is a wonderful guide. Thank you so much!
I like this concept. I'm sure every type can benefit from a video like this. I got stuck in an Si-Fi loop for quite a while, brought on by a very stressful time in my life. It was hard to get out.
Sounds exhausting. Especially since a thinker caught in a feeling state isn’t super comfortable. Glad you got out and hope things are better now.
@@MayakranYes, I wasn't myself at all. Things are much better now. Thanks.
I am not in danger, Nathan.
I AM THE DANGER
* clown emoji *
Excellent advice.
I bake my way out of spirals... Need a cake, cookies, brownies, or muffins? I'm your gal.
I bake too. My oven is currently fried, (baked?) 😭.
That's because you're an ENXP aspiring towards Si under stress
Omg my intj aunt likes baking!
@@empemitheos Nope, typed by a professional, definitely an INTJ, never once was typed as an exxp ever, even when I was testing for fun. It is an interesting thought. My sister is an ENTP and we could not process info more differently.
@@SocialBurrito3 that's pretty interesting, I bake alot too for an INTJ, but usually to share with others and get out my Se, also I never follow a recipe and kind of wing it
As an INTJ, we need to be careful about sitting back and feeling bad that we are stuck in a world full of idiots, we need to go out and build and implement systems to make the world a better place and broaden our perspectives and see the positivity and humanity in people, but that takes a lot of effort though and who really cares about our perspectives anyway right? :)
i went into ni fi loop after a breakup and came out after 8 months with mastry on understanding psycology and emotions which i never understood of others , i am glad i stayed in there
Smells like a good idea for a butthurt-thread.
>POV you're INTJ struggling with Ni-Fi loop
>Watched Nathan's video, collected yourself to improve
>Mastered Te, now you plan and organise everything, all your thoughts and judgements now have a reliable practical foundation (and you like it);
>Mastered Se: now you touch the grass and even sometimes people (excluding girls - sorre, face too grumpy and not enough Alpha vibes); now you have additional empirical sources of information and experience (and you like it);
>?????
>Fell into a Te-Se loop.
I want the Te-Se loop 😩
@@blubbldi3245 if you're an INTJ, it would be overwhelming and exhausting. By several means.
>INTJ explodes like a nuclear bomb
>End
@@uwumarii well, it's a butthurt-thread, its ending usually marks the take-off on a burning butthole) it's like no need to describe the conclusion, as it's clearly bad by definition)
@@uwumarii I mean, it's a butthurt-thread, its ending is bad by definition, no need to describe it in details)
But yeah, that would be the most possible conclusion))
Te when intj interact with it they're brought back to reality
This!
The Batman loop.
Not everyone’s gonna know this but another character who really embodies this imo is omen from valorant
Very true. Not knowing something compels you to examine it from every subjective angle, and fear usually throbs harder than the others. Building structural understanding around fear leads to some funny shapes.
Good advice. When I'm in a loop, anger/whatever. I IT lecture to myself as the situation is absurd and a phenomenon is ( in and of itself). Self-advice/question: how important is this internal conversation vis-a-vis human history.? 😂
OK next
❤
I’ve never dealt with paranoia. I have dealt with obsession. I get very obsessed with things that I find to be interesting and I can go whole months where I just eat and breathe information and content about that one thing. Most of the time it’s music related, like an artist I just discovered where I go down a rabbit hole of learning everything I can about that one artist and their music. It will eventually taper and break off as time goes on and the intensity of the obsession lessens. I don’t know if that’s considered being in the loop or not.
Interesting!
This happens to me as an INTP. I call them my "fleeting obsessions". I obsess until it wears me out, and then I move on to the next. My mom is INTJ and her paranoia has been off the charts for over 10 years now, it's got the whole family concerned.
@@elenawhite88 that’s interesting about the paranoia. I’ve never experienced it. I’ve always thought of INTJs as being very calm and logical so paranoia is an odd one for me to wrap my head around. I, of course, over analyze and overthink things, but I wouldn’t say it’s to the point of paranoia. If I conclude that it’s illogical to read too much into something, I usually stop.
@@signalfire15 y’all definitely are calm and logical. My mom always was, and quite frankly still is, but there were some things that didn’t go right in her 40’s that sent her into a depression spiral, which is where her paranoia came in. It was/is not normal for her to be like that. INTJ’s seem to be psychologically inclined to become paranoid when unhealthy. Otherwise, they are the most level-headed folks I know.
@@elenawhite88 ahhh that would explain why it’s a loop then. I guess I’ve just never experienced it yet. I’m sorry about your mom.
Feet of clay with a crown to match. Count your blessings, cause your golden egg will fly when it's hatched.
The baby Ni+Fi wants what it wants and TE will do anything that Fi baby wants Lol
Can an intj be timid and shy ?
Can you please make a similar video on Ni-Ti loop. I'm actually struggling with it and i want to understand it in a better way.
Thank you.
I love this! Please do ALL the loops!!
There is a book that describes this very well for every type - Lenore Thompson's Personality Type. She says that doing this, engaging the secondary function, is something nobody wants to do because it goes against the grain. She also says it is quite impossible to engage inferior function, simply because it is unconscious. What she says is that by turning to the second function we get to the inferior. I do not know about this, but I do know that engaging the secondary is a pain.
I find that when I’m in a loop where it’s just my emotions feeding on themselves spiraling tighter and faster, I get kind of fixated on it and the last thing I want is to break out. I KNOW I’m being illogical but I don’t care in the moment.
@Mayakran, and when the problem is unsolvable and there are no other ways, you can’t do anything but feel the emotions take over you as you think about how the future is doomed.
This is why I no longer continued my relationship with my partner who's an INTJ. He couldn't see past his paranoia/assumptions of who I am and what my reality / actual intentions are. Just because it seemed logical in his head does not mean it is the reality. It drained me so much and got me so jaded.
i asked this in the discord server already, but
carl jung said there were 2 auxilary functions right? so why does everyone believe there is only in fact 1?
More paranoid than ENTJs in machiavellian environments? Curious how INTJ loop compares with ENTJ loop
A lot of interesting comments.
Fi is a "tool" used to serve Ni, namely, what they want to do, it doesn't have to be now. It can be, but it doesn't have to be. NiFi is about theorizing something without the scientific method. Naturally, the scientific method happens in the testable world. If you're an intj, the only way to not go into an nifi loop is by "keeping that in mind. " hahaha.
Please make a video of being stuck in the Te-Se loop for ENTJs!
Can u plz make a video on intj enneagram 8 type personality... as according to many its a rare combination... would love if u could share ur insight on the same....
I hope you do one with INFJ because i want to know more about my Ni/Ti loop.
can you make an ne fe loop video?? estp and entp
I'm soon watching these videos only for the handsome thumbnails 😂 ooh la la 😏😆
Well that was uncomfortably accurate.
[edit]: What does the loop like the other way around, with Fi - Ni in the ISFP?
Can be very similar, as they are not engaging in the main extraverted function that usually separates the two types. INTJs and ISFPs can be usually separated by who is using more Te or more Se as their main way of engaging with the outside world, but since Ni and Fi are both internal functions, it becomes hard to tell from the outside who is who if they are both looping.
Also, we can tell them apart by asking them to do Ne activities. Intj naturally don’t do Ne, but that doesn’t mean they can’t use Ne. ISFP are Ne blind and can’t do Ne at all and get very confused when asked to do Ne, and might do Ni instead.
A simple way to test this is by doing Ne polr test.
Ask them to give names on an invention that is a santa hat that have a rotating camera on top. Intj can give a few name ideas over 3. Isfp only can give one or 2 or none at all.
This Ne polr test is from Eric, from UA-cam channel talking with famous people
@@RaidenShogun..I don't really understand what Ne is beyond what I've read (maybe if someone describes it Ni-Se language I'll get it), but I can go toe-to-toe with any Ne dom on Ne-heavy tasks. Just not all day!
With an ISFP Fi-Ni loop, maybe it's more mopey but less conspiratorial?
@@johnknight9150it can be very conspiratorial. I think the main difference is specificity, scope and timescale, INTJ tends to be less about what happened recently and the current negative effects, more about what happened a long time ago and what that will do to the future. Also tends to be vaguer, less actionable, and less tethered to specific details of known structures. Less Rothschild, more ancient aliens.
@@ArtificialSpacetimeIs the ISFP loop more socially focused?
Maladaptive daydreaming at its finest. I find myself in it very often
Make more entj vids!
Is this depression. Fi-Ni loop is always depression for me, or anxiety. I have to use te, ne to get out of it.
It can be depressing if loop too much. You want to think of something to do that will make you happy later but there’s negative consequences and you won’t Se do it cuz you are in NiFi daydream so much.
@@RaidenShogun.. I meant to say fi-si. I'm not isfp, I'm infp
what about INTJ Te Si Loop 😮
Can you please talk about NiTi loop?