Players here have found the Byzantines VERY effective, so it is not a surprise to struggle against them. Milites Christi can be very tough, but they are a definitely a high skill army. Good game to watch, and nice to see someone using horse archers effectively in Saga.
As a Milites Christi player, here is my advice (for what it's worth). It can be tempting to unleash "Deus Vult" right off the bat, but it often put's you at high risk when the other side is at their strongest. It's better saved as the counter punch later in the game. Use on bended knee early to juice up your orison while you maneuver into position and let them come at you. Use martyrs only when you are going to get nailed - don't use it when you have upped your armor to 6 or when you spent orison to cancel hits - you are acting against it's purpose. Rather, if you know you are getting attacked multiple times, use all your defenses on the first big attack to blunt it (orison, etc), then when the 2nd attack comes and you are out of defenses - that's when you use martyrs to freely juice up orison again. Lastly, since you are powerful in melee, it's often beneficial to eliminate the opponent's shooting first. So levy bow might be a target I would go after early with your HG, but not regular levy. Or try to reduce that horse bow early. Don't let it run around you reducing your mounted HG all game. Thanks for posting your games - love your videos!
Great! I will keep it in mind! Not sure about using 6 or 4 man HG units. 4 man lose steam so quickly and Deus Vult doesnt trigger as its full potential. But using 6 man I lose a Saga dice... Definitely I will need to try both options.
There are pros and cons to both options. Personally, I would rather have the additional Saga die. Plus, Orson can keep Your HG Intact longer. Remember Also that Bueceant Gives you +5 dice if you have less figures, Which is more likely with the 4 HG Units. Last piece of advice is that “Lambs of peace” Is a much underrated and powerful defensive play. Especially if you charge out there away from your lines to hit something and you know you will get counter charged. And especially if you have smaller units. For instance,4 HG Unit sitting with a fatigue gets countercharge by your opponent. Since there is a good chance, your opponent has a larger unit, even if he uses the fatigue against you you can get to armor six . you won’t hit him at either, But you can Keep your unit intact.
I agree, i was stacking or holding onto the 6 Hg so i could use that ability. I think it was a mistake. It made me predictable, also just loosing 1 hg meant the ability was 3 instead of 6 autohits... So a fragile thing to hold onto.
Great learning game, Graham. Thank you for sharing, but sorry for your loss. I will be playing Milites in a tournament in Spain next February, by the moment Im considering using turcopoles instead of mtd warrior unit, but I have concerns about the lack of a unit to act like an anvil, so probably I will swap them for foot warriors. It was amazing how your rival led the byzantines. Until next time!
yes indeed, i didn't play the MC very well, the FAQ changed them a bit, possibly for the better. The HG should be in 3 units of 4. Turcopoles is a excellent idea. Rich thou is a excellent player we can learn from him I am pleased you enjoyed the game. :=-)
Turcoples are actually a good compliment - you need some shooting, but they also add the defense dice just for floating close to your mounted. They've always served me well in games.
Yesterday i won AoC local tournament with mine Byzantines. Mine opponent in 2nd round do exactly same mistake - charge mine (-) levies with double action right from the start coz of those juicy autohits+lots of attack combo. In result he lost half of his units after mine counterattack.
Congrats on the win, well done :-=). the Byzantines i think are still a decent warband and are very competitive. maybe more combined arms now thou, which is a good thing.
Graeme one unit of 8 Hearthguard might be the way to go. One power hitting unit, but also only one unit to look after with Orison. I think units of 4 Heathguard are too vulnerable, especially to shooting.
hummmm. agree 8 hg are a kick ass hammer, but does it make you predictable?. Your opponent will know where the killer blow is coming from. i do agree however, you can stack the orison in the opponents phase, but not sure. I might try it in game.
@@grahamswargamevault2635 - I used to use 1 unit of 8HG all the time, before they changed the Deus Vult ability. That no longer makes sense (in my opinion). I think now it's better with 2 sets of 4HG...take the extra SAGA dice that will further keep them alive longer. Instead of thinking of 1 big hammer group, use your various melee buffs turn after turn while Lambs of Peace and Orison keep you alive and generating SAGA dice. The other weakness of 1 hammer group is the opponent usually has their own defense capabilities, so your attack is never as devastating as you think. Also, some factions can dodge a single attack - think of the Welsh who can just run away and then you've wasted your hammer strike.
Players here have found the Byzantines VERY effective, so it is not a surprise to struggle against them. Milites Christi can be very tough, but they are a definitely a high skill army. Good game to watch, and nice to see someone using horse archers effectively in Saga.
Good to watch. Your opponent played the Byzantines well. Maybe I will dust mine off! 😁
Yep Rich did play them well, decent combined arms faction. I look forward to seeing them Alex.
As a Milites Christi player, here is my advice (for what it's worth). It can be tempting to unleash "Deus Vult" right off the bat, but it often put's you at high risk when the other side is at their strongest. It's better saved as the counter punch later in the game. Use on bended knee early to juice up your orison while you maneuver into position and let them come at you. Use martyrs only when you are going to get nailed - don't use it when you have upped your armor to 6 or when you spent orison to cancel hits - you are acting against it's purpose. Rather, if you know you are getting attacked multiple times, use all your defenses on the first big attack to blunt it (orison, etc), then when the 2nd attack comes and you are out of defenses - that's when you use martyrs to freely juice up orison again. Lastly, since you are powerful in melee, it's often beneficial to eliminate the opponent's shooting first. So levy bow might be a target I would go after early with your HG, but not regular levy. Or try to reduce that horse bow early. Don't let it run around you reducing your mounted HG all game. Thanks for posting your games - love your videos!
Great! I will keep it in mind! Not sure about using 6 or 4 man HG units. 4 man lose steam so quickly and Deus Vult doesnt trigger as its full potential. But using 6 man I lose a Saga dice... Definitely I will need to try both options.
There are pros and cons to both options. Personally, I would rather have the additional Saga die. Plus, Orson can keep Your HG Intact longer. Remember Also that Bueceant Gives you +5 dice if you have less figures, Which is more likely with the 4 HG Units. Last piece of advice is that “Lambs of peace” Is a much underrated and powerful defensive play. Especially if you charge out there away from your lines to hit something and you know you will get counter charged. And especially if you have smaller units. For instance,4 HG Unit sitting with a fatigue gets countercharge by your opponent. Since there is a good chance, your opponent has a larger unit, even if he uses the fatigue against you you can get to armor six . you won’t hit him at either, But you can Keep your unit intact.
I agree, i was stacking or holding onto the 6 Hg so i could use that ability. I think it was a mistake. It made me predictable, also just loosing 1 hg meant the ability was 3 instead of 6 autohits... So a fragile thing to hold onto.
@@pedrogzc hehe a fair point, the bb is reasonably dice hungry
Great learning game, Graham. Thank you for sharing, but sorry for your loss. I will be playing Milites in a tournament in Spain next February, by the moment Im considering using turcopoles instead of mtd warrior unit, but I have concerns about the lack of a unit to act like an anvil, so probably I will swap them for foot warriors. It was amazing how your rival led the byzantines. Until next time!
yes indeed, i didn't play the MC very well, the FAQ changed them a bit, possibly for the better. The HG should be in 3 units of 4. Turcopoles is a excellent idea. Rich thou is a excellent player we can learn from him I am pleased you enjoyed the game. :=-)
Turcoples are actually a good compliment - you need some shooting, but they also add the defense dice just for floating close to your mounted. They've always served me well in games.
@@DerHund777 ty for the advice! I will try them, for sure.
Yesterday i won AoC local tournament with mine Byzantines. Mine opponent in 2nd round do exactly same mistake - charge mine (-) levies with double action right from the start coz of those juicy autohits+lots of attack combo. In result he lost half of his units after mine counterattack.
Congrats on the win, well done :-=). the Byzantines i think are still a decent warband and are very competitive. maybe more combined arms now thou, which is a good thing.
Graeme one unit of 8 Hearthguard might be the way to go. One power hitting unit, but also only one unit to look after with Orison. I think units of 4 Heathguard are too vulnerable, especially to shooting.
hummmm. agree 8 hg are a kick ass hammer, but does it make you predictable?. Your opponent will know where the killer blow is coming from. i do agree however, you can stack the orison in the opponents phase, but not sure. I might try it in game.
@@grahamswargamevault2635 - I used to use 1 unit of 8HG all the time, before they changed the Deus Vult ability. That no longer makes sense (in my opinion). I think now it's better with 2 sets of 4HG...take the extra SAGA dice that will further keep them alive longer. Instead of thinking of 1 big hammer group, use your various melee buffs turn after turn while Lambs of Peace and Orison keep you alive and generating SAGA dice. The other weakness of 1 hammer group is the opponent usually has their own defense capabilities, so your attack is never as devastating as you think. Also, some factions can dodge a single attack - think of the Welsh who can just run away and then you've wasted your hammer strike.