A thought-provoking conversation with two U.S.-based IIT Delhi graduates
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- Tariq Aftab grew up in Patna, the capital city of the Indian state of Bihar. He earned his engineering degree at the Indian Institute of Technology (IIT) in Delhi and his MBA in Technology Management in the US. He has been working in technology management roles for the last 13 years, in the US.
He comes from a middle class family. His mother is a retired school teacher and his father is a retired accountant who used to work for the Bihar Government. His mother is from Lucknow in UP and his father’s great grandparents migrated from Ambala to Lauriya-Nandangarh in the West Champaran district of Northern Bihar. He believes that some family that his ancestor’s left behind in Ambala may possibly have migrated to Pakistan during the partition.
About his IIT days Tariq says: The time spent at IIT still holds a special place in my heart due to its uniqueness. Coming from a small town - IIT Delhi provided a unique opportunity for me to interact, live and work closely with students from many different parts of the country. I am still very close with many of these friends from IIT Delhi. The IITs have implicitly created what is called the “multidisciplinary approach” to problem solving in the West where diverse groups of individuals with different backgrounds and skillsets are placed together to solve a problem or achieve a goal together. I strongly believes that such an approach can be effectively extended to solve other possible challenges in the subcontinent.
Siddarth Pradeep grew up in the Indian state of Haryana, which is close to Delhi. He comes from the village Jadaula, near Pehowa in Kaithal district. He earned his engineering degree at the Indian Institute of Technology (IIT) in Delhi. Later he earned his MBA in finance. He has been working for a multinational bank in New York for 12 years. He has been taking a keen interest in the subcontinent’s history.
His unlettered grandfather made his father get the highest degree, i.e., PhD. His father ended up earning his doctoral degree in soil chemistry from GB Pant University of Agriculture and Technology. At the time it was located in the UP. Now it is in Uttarakhand. It is one of the largest agricultural universities in the world. He had a chance to go to the US for his PhD but he chose to stay in India because he wanted to be close to his parents.
His grandfather had many Muslim friends. Rana Phool Muhammad Khan, a Pakistani politician, was one of his best friends. Phool Muhammad was a member of the provincial assembly of the Punjab, representing Bhai Pheroo, a town near Lahore, in 1970 and 1977. This town has been named Phoolnagar after him. Rana Phool Muhammad Khan's son, Rana Muhammad Iqbal Khan, has served as the speaker of the Punjab Assembly. He was born on April 20, 1945 at Gumthala Garhu, Tehsil Pehowa. Siddarth's grandfather safely escorted Rana Phool Muhammad's family to the Pakistan border.
About his IIT days Siddarth says: For me, four years at IIT remain my most cherished time of my entire student life. I see it as four years of immense growth as a person. From a silly boy in the first year who actually thought of making fun of other students who were not as privileged to my fourth year having developed deep friendships with all sorts of students and appreciating their life experiences more. Basically I think more than studies, the IIT hostel allotment system and its ethos has helped me, and many others like me, grow into more inclusive and sensitive individuals. My roommate was a poor boy from Rajasthan, whose father was a postman. Now he works for a multinational company in the United States. I have thought about this and discussed with my friends. We think this is one of the reasons why IIT graduates are so successful all over the world. They have an edge over others because they are already used to living in a multicultural setup with such diverse student base, and communicating in English. Organizations today are similarly diverse.
Siddarth's father worked for the agriculture department in Haryana. He visited Pakistan twice on official business. Both times he visited Multan, Islamabad, Lahore and surrounding villages.
Shakil Chaudhary, is an alumnus of Government College, Lahore. Subsequently, he studied international relations in Islamabad and media in London. He has has worked for several English-language newspapers. He has written a critically acclaimed book, Handbook of Functional English. He has conducted many workshops on communication, writing and critical thinking skills. He is the current president of the Progressive Writers Association, Islamabad.
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Please put second video of this session soon.
Pradeep is nonsense person
Chutiya h
Tumse Best argument saikil sahab se sikho
Ekbal ka pura Sher padho chutiya adha padha
Adhura gyan vary dengours
Good discussion !!
@@vinoduikey5376 abosuletly right.
Quality discussion. Waiting for second part.
I am a Tribal of odisha,living in city.My Village is only 60 K.M away from my city Rourkela.Christian Conversion is reached to my Village areas in last 5 years.Half of my Village converted to Christianity including my family members of Village. There was only one Christian family in my Village(we were friends during childhood). Discussion of religion was very rare during those days, whole village was living together, but now I can clearly see the slow changes like discriminating nature among people by others religion.The way these Conversions are happening is they made them believe like for example like one's children got better from an illness by a prayer.What I noticed one more thing is people who are converted in village practice Christianity is different then those of big cities.These Converted villagers have some bizzare rules like you can not sell tobbaco, drink alcohol and many other.One guy I know returned to his religion as they make fun of him selling tobacco in his small shop.GOD knows who are teaching them Christianity.
Very bad
We all should go back to respecting nature - Sanathana Dharma. Too much rituals has corrupted Hinduism. Govt has tied our hands by taking over ancient temples. Instead of building new temples we should revive our old temples.
Pls go thew to any small leader or any RSS shakha se contact karke pls batao 🙏
Watch pandit mahedra pal Arya channel.
Have patience bro. These fake converts will regeret. Because hindusim is culture of this land it will seep through every religion that comes here. It's the mother board. Jai jagganath. Jus meditata n show them real power of sanatani dharm
These two have given jalebi type answer to pretty much every question.
They avoid speaking their mind.
It's called being politically correct.
Bhai...ye IITians h. I don't know how much interaction you have with IITians. This is one of the most prominent traits of IITians.
@@ashwanisirohi 😂😂
Found 2nd part to be more frank and straightforward.
Tariq, You were quite skeptical while answering questions. You can be more truthful we would have appreciated more.
He is afraid that his comments might be quoted at his work place and is trying to be politically correct and hence leaving room for plausible deniability
i have a doubt, i have studied in CBSE school. We have not studied about two Nation Theory, only Partition subject was there,
No dude, reference to partition is there in CBSE. Read class 12 book by bipin chandra.
Tariq Aftab I am from Gaya Bihar and I wished you could have given reply without showing examples but truthfully what you have observed, felt as an Indian Muslim while living with vast majority of Hindus in every walk of life. But you too did not give straight forward reply.
Sidharth is very articulate. It's a Delight to hear him speak.
Speaking truth makes person bold
Excellent programme. As an ex-IITD person,I was pleased to hear these young Engineers. Regarding resistance to Western education amongst Muslims, this is less so in South India
IITs are Institutions for Technology. Research in fundamental science is not expected from IIT. However research in applied sciences is expected from IIT.
I think they generally get good at management and achieving targets/goals... Having worked with IIT'ians in startup ecosystem, their energy and confidence at Yes/No is amazing along with focus on long grinds....
It's always difficult for an Indian Muslim to express himself about what he thinks about Two nation theory 😭
true
Muslims of sub continent suffer from identity crisis and try to disown their ancestry, The Abrahamic ideology very nature is predatory soteriological and proselytizing.
The vital distinction between a community and a nation rests in the matter of ultimate destiny, Islam is a socio political ideology which is incompatible with the local self government and Jihad becomes incumbent on Muslims to establish Dar-ul-Islam & conceive it as final destiny
A people who not withstanding their differences accept a common destiny for themselves as well as their opponents are a community. A people who are not only different from the rest but refuse to accept for themselves the same destiny which others do, are a nation. It is this acceptance or non acceptance of a common destiny which alone can explain why the untouchables the Parsis are in relation to the Hindus only communities and why the Muslims are a nation
Thus from the point of view of harmony in the body politic the difference is of the most vital character as the difference of ultimate destiny. The dynamic character of this difference is undeniable. If it persists , it can not but have the effect of rendering the state in fragments
My Pakistani friends in US says the two nation theory logic doesnt restrict Pakistanis to Hindu-Muslim only. They said it is observed that Pakistanis feel that they can not stay with any non muslim religion. The TNT DNA have mutated to this extent and harming young generation of Pakistanis since their parents force them to believe this.
@Gulrez Rana why you are Rana?
@Gulrez Rana l am always amazed by this when I see BAJWA, CHAUDHURY, GUJJAR, RANA are most dominant in Pakistan Army and Administration. In India most Muslims use Surname of Arabic or Farsi origin(Syed, Quraishi, Khan, even Khilji etc) but they look Bihari or Bengali in Eastern UP or Bihar belt. Great you know your history.
Much balanced by u all specially on community based problem s ,love from haryana india 🙏🙏
How Jinna can’t respectable?
Due to him millions of people were
Being slaughtered by his pseudo communal and sectarian notion.
One day History shall judge him truly.
An honest and intellectual discussion. Thanks Shakil Sahab for bringing two indians from different communities having intellectual prowess.
IIT are technology institute ..noble prize are not in technology … science and technology has difference ..
They produce RATTAMAAR .English speaking cyber coolie
Shakeel Chaudhry Sahib you are doing so well in connecting the people across two countries
Tarek, you just explained excellence, in the most honest and idyllic way....I loved it....results are such a stupid thing when people don't even realize and notice the impact of each and every moment faced by an individual....well said bhai.....
I am more impressed that two people who have studied technical education has given very clear expositions of social issues in India.
By comparing with example he is truly evading the harsh truth
Using exception as examples.
Good evening.....sir Kindly bring well educated people from Pakistan.India and Bangladesh together and ask them the way forward for all of us to bring peace and development in the Subcontinent..
That's what he doing
Remove madarsa
Please keep bringing such gentlemen. Good job sir
Sounds like an interesting lineup! Two Indians from the same IIT batch. One Hindu and Muslim.
Agree with Tariq Aftab. As Indian Muslims get educated, they get less religious. Among Indian Muslim youth females are more educated than males.
Also Muslim Ashrafiya in India are very influential.
I disagree all the Muslims leader's are educated in convent school 🚸 then have degree from good university 🎓 still they are flag bearer of Islamic fundamentalist. Eg Md jinnah, Akbar owaisi, sharjeel Imam & I can go on. The present education system gives you vocational training to have a livelihood it doesn't build character, character are build by society & family when they tell the truth about religion and how to go rationalist in life avoiding the religious Bigot ary.
Muslim ashrafiya are hand in gloves with Jewish Christian elites of the west
In the 23 and 24th minute of this video, siddharth has so succinctly and so clearly and beautifully conveyed his point ki swad aa gya. IIT se ab thinker bhi nikal rhe hai. Bravo siddharth.
I have many Muslim friends. I feel, Indian Muslims have no idea like two nation theory. They intermingle well with Hindus. My son did his B.Tech from Jamia Milia Islamia, Delhi in 2000 and afterwards management course from IIM Calcutta in 2003.
I visited Kashmir in 1973 and 2016 with family, found Kashmiri people very respectful and friendly. They are well informed and wisely educated.
Post repeal of Article 370 of Indian Constitution, Kashmiri people will be much better because India is a welfare state without religion and political leaders, to gain votes to win competition and elections, promise and strive to give more and more freebies like free food grains, electricity, water, house, coking gas and mass employment to unemployed youth. All social groups, irrespective of religion or caste benefit from such political competition and discourse. Now, Kashmiris, free from political control of 2 families and joining larger play board, will gain all around, financially and socially.
Factually, Repealment of Article 370 has given freedom to Kashmiri people to join and enjoy much bigger community and economy. In next 10 years, Kashmiris will have better per capita GDP than Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and rest of Indian's.
Post 10 years, compare per capita GDP of Indian ruled Kashmir and that ruled by Pakistan. Than you will realise the failure of 2 nation theory and discourse for all times to come which will be in interest of humanity.
Shakil sahab you are really sincerely interested increating an environment of cordiality and friendship
I don't know why these IIT guys are talking in Urdu. I think Jinnah was a hero for Pakistan but for us he was a divider
There is no harm in talking in Urdu, as its an Indian language
Critical patriot that's everyone should be
Very good discussion. Apart from Shakilji, saw another Moslaym speaking in a sober tone with good logic.
Shakil sahab please invite Dr Sayed Rizwan Ahmad Sahab, he is a Nationalist Muslim, UA-camr & he is also Nasiruddin shah's cousin.
Nice thought, in UK, when I went to visit Shakespeare home which is like a museum, tourist guide told me differences between Welsh and English people. The more the people travel, the better tolerance have towards other views.
Excellent conversation by two intellectual thanks
The video title was a bit of hyperbole. The only thought provoking nugget that I could find in the whole conversation was this: 'the only pure human race was the one that emanated from Africa, rest are a mix'.
Thanks for that. Worth the time spent.
Long live all these gentlemen.
100/100 Proud of you HERO'S 💐
Very fruitful discussion. More such videos are expected to clear the misunderstandings
Muslim girls in India are progressing more than muslim boys at UG nd PG level,went through PG English students list in a university, good no of muslim girls but very few muslim boys in list
Good discussion. But in my opinion Siddharth has given his views more truthfully and in a far logical way. Tariq would have given replies focusing on the questions asked instead of running around the bush. He somehow looked less informed on various facts.
In this type of discussion, Do.S. rizwan sir also present hear .PLS unko aapne show par bulaya🙏
This is likewise in Kolkata as well. I had a first hand experience with a muslim. I was buying a house from a muslim. He wanted to give up the house bcz most of the houses in the complex were taken by non Muslims that why he wanted to sell and go to a muslim neighborhood
Dear Shakilji,
I must congratulate you on maintaining a high degree of objectivity in the content you put out on this channel. It is eminently watchable, and thought-provoking. Luckily, you do not pre-judge, nor pontificate, and leave it to your interviewees to be open about their stance.
I sincerely hope, this channel helps bring peoples of the 2 nations closer by reducing mis-givings about each other.
Very good Discussion. Thank you Friends.
Very nice Shakeel Choudhary sir and thank you very much to both sir
I don't think all Indian Muslims are against modern education. When I got selected for IIT in 1975, many Muslims from my neighborhood visited my house to congratulate me and to understand what they should do to help their children to get into IIT.
hats off to you shakil saab
In the Indian state of Goa, people from all over India and other countries, are more tolerant of others' views. Mixing culture is very important.
Siddharth sir has given good example. About real situation....
The question was ghettos in India. Please answer specification.
Can we listen to Siddharth
I am above seventy and Siddarth is of my son's age I am deeply impressed with his command on spoken Urdu which is something I never expected from a man from Haryana of his age.This channel is different and needs more viewers.
What abeautiful example has give by Siddarth.lets try it on third party and problem will open itself.hopefully second party will understand this as soon as better for every boby.well said Siddarth ji.One thing is got clear that IIT is not only producing excellent IT specialist and engineers but also philosophers.
Philosophy is part of science and life
If they leave the country they should pay the full graduations IIT fee and living expenses as well?
I never misses Shakil sir's discussion on such topics!!
I think you have relevant questions.
Thanks bringing the IIT boys on to the discussion.
Great conversation, I agree with Tariq Aftab on quite a few points actually. I also understand the need of tip toeing a bit on certain ideas since openly discussing them doesn't really solve our problem, few points I would like to make are.
- Hindus in India do not see themselves as a monolith, most of the present generation (age below 40) do not really consider themselves as practicing hindus, we go to temples once in a while celebrate festivals but broadly every fellow Hindu person I have interacted my entire life we have neither discussed religion or bonded over religious identity. This isn't true for Muslims though.
- Having said that it is also a fact that India is fairly a poor country, people are still struggling to make their ends meet and these people are not just muslims but also hindus, people like you and me in a lot of sense have made it, we were either smart or had family money or just luck to have made something out of our life but for a lot of individuals it's still a struggle. specially when 60% of your population is struggling for upward socio-economic mobility. It is but obvious a subset of that population will find reason to blame someone for their struggle. Where some schedule cast/tribe will blame Brahmins for their historical socio economic disabilities; poor Brahmins will curse affirmative action for their perceived injustice; some muslims will cry victim to hindu majority and so on and so forth. These are essentially the fault lines of a society they do exists and has created unnecessary friction.
I actually forgot the point i was trying to make! but I would like the end by saying with humans comes conflict and any sect or society that puts religious identity as a basis of it's social contract those societies can't succeed in the modern ideas of nation state.
Thanks to both my Alma Matters❤️❤️🙏🙏
I and my brothrrs and sisters went to Christian missionary schools. We had few Muslims in our classes and school.
Will Durant ‘A case for India‘ sitting in my bookshelf .. hope I finally read it
I do not agree with what the second gentleman, Tarik, I presume, said in his reply. The role of IITs is to keep India in the technological forefront (resource issues notwithstanding), and produce quality engineers who can help the nation prosper (also, somewhat not true - since many head out for greener pastures). The inspirational and aspirational values of having landed a seat there is incidental and individualistic. Many IITians are contributing to India’s prowess as a a breeding ground for tech startups and making their presence known in diverse engineering disciplines, contributing to the upward mobility of India’s economy.
Very good discussion.
Shakeel ji
Ghettos are a natural creation due to cultural values . People feel more comfortable when their neighbors also have common faith and social values.
Ghettos living also helps families finding bride grooms , common ethos , dilet ,support system .
I got giddy listening to mr Aftab my fellow Biharis deliberation on 2 nation theory… and explanation on his Central Asia origin.
Great sidharth sir.
Sidharth the way he has explained,one needs to understand between the line types narratives.
Janab Shakil Chowdhury ji,
Very very thanks to you & to two guests for the enlightened discussion. No doubt both IIT educated intellectuals have deep knowledge of problems of subcontinent & their solutions. Please convey my feelings to them. Looking forward to your next session of discussion with these Learned persons.
We as common persons get a little knowledge from schools, colleges, parents and society around us. Though I am lucky that I was not taught hatred, but I find good number of persons around me who are told about misdeeds of Mughals except emperor Akbar.
I have myself heard speeches of President Bhutto on radio of thousand years of war with India, reminding public about Mughals rule & other invaders. While addressing a public rally in Peshawar in 72, ( broadcasted by radio Pakistan) Bhutto spoke very badly about great leader Badshah Khan. I was only ninteen years old then. I also heard speaches of a few Indian leaders not speaking good on Pakistan mostly during elections. Common persons derive their bad impression from such leaders. I have also read & listened the recorded communal speeches of Jinnah, which have no parallel in history. Thanks.
Do sikhs claim they ruled pakistan? Have you heard any christian claim he is relative of British?
Tariq well done..
Shakil sir
Boths r creaminess mind of India 🇮🇳
Thanks for Boths interview
Muslims prefer to live where there are Mosque and also the major reason is they dont want to expose their children with people of other religion.....but a Sikh, Hindu, Christans, Buddhist, Jews, Parsis will not mind living together in the same area.
Not Education but WEALTH will SOLVE this Quagmire.
Mass Hindus which were poor in 16-18 Centuries converted to Islam for Social Security and Employment.
Tarun became Tahir
Ashok became Ashraf
Mahesh became Mehmood
When India becomes 15Trillion Dollars Economy
Tahir will become Tarun
Ashraf will become Ashok
Mehmood will become Mahesh
.......Back On its own
Peace will Pervade Permanently
Good program shakil choudhary sir🙏🙏🙏
Bas ahi farak hey education(India) me Or non education(Pakistan) me
from ahmedabad Gujarat🇮🇳
Arif Mohammed may be candidate for president of India from BJP in 2022 .
Very balanced debate
I watch your shows just because of your wonderful questions more than the answers of the guests.
Great questions come from the great wisdom.
Good discussion. The anchor is doing a useful job.
very nice... discussion.. Cannot Expect from Orya Maqbul jan Abbasi, Syed Zaid zaman hamid.., Ansar Abbasi,
Nice. Looking forward to Part 2.
Siddharth was correct in many points but shakil sir you had to ask to these two gentle man" why islamophobe has been increased even European countries have more islmophobe has compared south asian region" , don't they think muslims have to go for more liberal education.
Kaun saza de raha hai? Hindu ne to nahi di. Diya hota to 8% se 16% bahi hote.pakistan ki tarah 2% hote Waise orissa me new Christian khud ko angrez samjhe aur koi kattar react kare to galti 100% pahle wale ki hai.
Jab dekho Hindu majority pe atyachar aur minority ka faida utha ke victim card. Waise secular democracy me minority aur majority kyu?madrassa kyu?India ka secularism means Hindu dabao, Hindu vagao hai.
Bhai in saalo ko samaj nahi aaye gai ye narrative ko control kar rahe hai
Orya Maqbool never speak truth. He is hardcore Islamist.
Siddharth is evading giving reply on communal violence.
indian muslim studied in IIT eaRNING 1 million dollars while pak muslims praying 5 times a day for chinas loan
Not just ghettos, some gentrified areas also have a predominance of certain people. The reason can also be simply a feeling of societal comfort, a certain way of familiarity in community and culture and a feeling of warmth. This is seen not just in South Asians but also in for eg Turkish people and some others in Europe.
Great conversation
Excellent discussion…… what happened to you sir? Have not seen your video lately…. We are missing you!
When it comes to history, what happened should be told faithfully to draw correct lessons out of it. If Babar destroyed Ram temple at Ayodhya, there is no need to go at length to hide and falsify facts. EH Carrs' ideas about history writing followed blindly by leftists in India are totally conspiratorial.
Sahil ji.
Please extend your such discussion with indian nRI from Europe. These indian have a diffrent views about history of both nations. You can also invite me too. No isdue at all.
namaste shakil sir 🙏 please invite Maj. Gaurav Arya for interview if possible 🙏🙏🙏
In a Hindu Kingdom of Nepal absolute monarch has permitted construction of Jama Masjid near by King’s palace in the middle of the Kathmandu city in 19th century. These are the same people who ran away from Rajasthan India during Mughal rule and established their kingdom in Nepal. Hindus have been penalized for being accommodating with Muslims by the partition of India which was a slap in the face of subcontinent of Hindu and Muslims cohabiting for millennia.
Shakil Sir, it was a good first part of the discussion. balanced.
good start by Tariq with melting pot reference.......actually that is the case and we have learnt from everyone who came here...like Greeks influence
Chachaji ne IIT lagake engineers banaye aur fir lic raj lagake produce nahi karne diya ! Fir sare iitian us mai bethe hai. Including me....
My salute to two IITians., it is a good discussion, me from odisha and felt now in India people rarely bothered about religion as economy is growing, basically I donot find any smell of comunial disharmony at least in odisha, As many people are knowing money matters, then religion.so by another 10years we would not discuss about these topic, thanks
You are doing fine job Shakilji. Keep walking my
Dr Shakil,
The question should whether Madrassa are the right education model for a modern progressive young minds.
IITs come later
Not the right one
Ye log great h
Surprisingly good stuff
Gentrification does not mean to racially target an area so that it becomes more livable for whites. It literally just means to turn around an old dilapidated area. This has happened in Manhattan in many historic areas which used to be Italian, Irish etc.
IITs are meant mainly to produce high quality engineers to bring more prosperity to India, whereas TIFR and IISc. etc are for research oriented. One gets noble prize in new findings that is science not in technology. So please do not compare them. India was lucky to have Nehru as first PM, who took initiative in establishing IITs, IIMs and AIIMs. Modi took them forward.
Certainly not Nehru. Do research. These are based on pre-freedom Committee reports And IISc (Tata Institute) was inspired by Vivekananda
The basic difference that I feel between india and pakistan , indian muslim community grown by choosing study whatever the reason behind it whereas in pakistani muslim they feels if they allow completely foreign education system then islam will be thretened so dear pakistani sister and brothers if u think that way then u never compete with world education
Mr Tarik seems to be ungrateful to the quality education by prestigious IIT . Had he not been graduated from there he might have not been in US nor on your show, sometimes . Being Indian ( if he feels so ) he should have been more proud of his IIT, an important step for his success. Some people have such grievances even if you do any good.
How can you say he is ungrateful for being studied at IIT?
He’s right in saying IITS don’t have enough quality research….IITS are great for graduate degrees.
Chaudhary Sahib, it would have been better to discuss new frontiers of science and technologies, india and Pakistan to focus to become developed nations.
Though expected a little more but overall a good interview
Excellent program. Got to know so many things. I always cherished the Indian society but after Modi I doubt the strength in it. I have so many Muslim friends, I feel worried about them. Situation is changing very fast in India, programs like yours may help the society to hold strength.
Modi was not there in 1947