For those curious, my review of the Gollum game will post next week! In the meantime, I'll be streaming the game again tomorrow (Sunday). Tune in here: ua-cam.com/users/livev_0v743j5ps?feature=share
Tolkien sure loved irony! Imagine what must have gone through Gollums mind when he found out that eight decades later, another Baggins (this time Frodo) shows up and he too has The Ring, The "Precious". Also think about this: Long before the events of Hobbit, orcs of Mount Gram invaded Shire. Bandobras Took beheaded the Orc king Golfimbul with a wooden club and Golfimbuls head flew until it dropped into a rabbit hole. That inspired hobbits of the Shire to invent a new game where you hit the ball to a hole on the ground and named that game golf.
@@goggles86 and I'm glad I checked the replies as I was gonna say this word for word. For a moment I thought it was me and I somehow just forgot I did.
Gollum is honestly one of the most masterfully written characters in any media simply because Tolkien perfectly balances your hatred and sympathy for him when reading. He does vile acts and constantly lies and cheats, but he's so pathetic and his existence is so painful that you can't help but feel sorry for him. It's as if because Tolkien puts him through endless suffering, we as a reader give him endless pity even as he's attempting to kill Frodo and Sam. Then, of course, the revelation that he's needed to destroy the One Ring in the end shows that all that pity and kindness is not foolish or naive, but in reality, what ends up saving the world.
Bro, he eats babies. Tolkien wrote him as a victim turned abuser, wicked in every aspect after encountering the ring, he uses being kicked as permission to kick all others. You should be careful, I see an easy mark in you.
ya dude i totally agree, its crazy to think that in the end he played a 100% critical role is destroying the ring. Tolkien shows us that kindness / forgiveness / compassion can be critical in reaching our goals in life :)
Why it be so hard for Gollum to believe the ring was passed on to aBaggins relative.Gollum is quite aware of how that would work. He was a hobbit himself. Tolkien himself insinuated Gollum may actually have been more aware of the rings movement after Bilbo aquired it than we knew.
It actually plays into the shared experience between how there's all this duality going on. Gollum being 2 entities in a single body and two Baggin's that also had the ring.
10/10 voicing the Sméagol/Gollum discussion. Most Gollum impressions come across as uncanny and slightly off. Andy Serkis, Liam O'brian and yourself are really the only people I've heard pull it off so well yet remain slightly different to each other.
My goodness, the films make it seem like Aragorn has spent no time with Gollum, there could be an entire set of novels or shows set on Aragorn’s travels with Gollum. Awesome vid as always!
Well if u read the book before watching the film then u kind of piece together the things that happen off screen. But an average viewer would have no idea Aragorn ever met gollum
I think the movies made Gollum way too sympathetic. True, he was tragic in the books, too, but he had also been eating babies. His evilness is often overlooked or excused in the movies.
I think Andy Serkis' Gollum voice adds to this as well. The first version of LotR I ever partook in was a radio play in which Gollum sounded a lot more evil and slimy, partially because the man voicing him didn't distort his voice much. (to anyone curious: ua-cam.com/video/E_Ns3e8RRW0/v-deo.html It's in Swedish)
He's really difficult to pin. The books consistently refer to Gollum as "evil", which is why he is burned by the Elvish rope and can't eat lembas, but at the same time he seems to waver all the way until Shelob's cave, and Tolkien's also very clear that the Ring couldn't be destroyed without him and that Frodo forgave him in the end. I would say, the Jackson movies arguably sell the idea that Gollum was redeemable better than the books do, and it's the closest the movies ever got to handling any character even marginally better than the books, but that's also at the cost of making Faramir come off as worse.
One thing I also like about Gollum is the contrast and warning he is to both Frodo and Sam as ring bearers. Not just because pity is a noble quality, but also out of respect to what Gollum was and what Frodo might become should the Ring win power over him. They spare him because who would pity them if that happened?
In some Finnish movie/serie productions, Frodos voice eventually, when already near and in Mordor, becomes hoarse like he was a heavy smoker. Sometimes he speaks like Gollum when under some influence from The Ring. You get the impression that Rings destruction in Sammath Naur rescued Frodo from something at least remotely resembling Gollums fate. His voice became permanently hoarse though.
I think one of the biggest tragedies in LoTR is that Gollem never met Galadriel. It would have been interesting to see what she sensed in him and how Gollem would have reacted to seeing such a purely good and beautiful being. It might have even changed Gollem forever
Tolkien actually blamed Sam for Gollum's death. While Frodo was trying to help Sméagol, Sam wasn't having any of it. He constantly berated Sméagol for anything and everything, and according to Tolkien, that was why Gollum was never redeemed. There was a moment in The Two Towers book where Frodo and Sam were napping on the Stairs of Cirith Ungol when Gollum came up to them. After a moment of inner turmoil, it looked like Sméagol had finally won out. He even caressed Frodo's leg before Sam awoke and accused him of "sneaking." According to Tolkien, that exchange was one of the most tragic parts of the Lord of the Rings story. In Letter 246, he explained that "Sam fail[ed] to note the complete change in Gollum's tone and aspect. 'Nothing, nothing', said Gollum softly. 'Nice master!'." Thus, it was only seconds after his near-redemption that Sam was back to accusing him of foul play. Tolkien went on to explain how Gollum's repentance was ruined by Sam's brash and defensive comments. Of course, Sam had to act that way for The Lord of the Rings' narrative, so he can't really be blamed. But still, if Sam hadn't acted in such a way, Gollum could have been redeemed. Tolkien even hypothesized an alternate ending where Gollum took the Ring from Frodo so that he could willingly sacrifice himself and save his master. In that way, Sam was responsible for Gollum's death -- because he prevented Gollum from being redeemed.
Chopping Sams actions up to narrative needs does a disservice to well, the narrative i guess? my point being that it makes good sense for Sam to react in the way he did - a change of heart where Sam suddenly trusts Gollum would have seemed more contrived, especially if Gollum ultimately redeemed himself.
Gollum's death was his own fault. Words are extremely powerful in Middle-Earth, when Gollum swore upon the Precious that meant something to the fabric of the world Eru Illuvatar created. Once Gollum broke that oath, his death was guaranteed. Remember, in The Hobbit Tolkien outright says that creatures like Gollum *always* fulfilled promises or oaths as these were magical in nature and had consequences
It is interesting, as the Necromancer, Sauron set up his base in southwest Rhovanion Forest, next to the Anduin river. While not outright stated, he probably believed his one ring would show up in the river, or on the banks there eventually. It probably upset him to learn that the ring was found up river, with the one possessing it hiding in the mountains on the other side of the river from him for centuries.
I always imagine that he didn't put up with Bilbo's riddle game crap and just killed the cheater(what's in my pocket is not a riddle) and got the ring back. Yeah, I'm nihilistic...I want to wear Bilbo cheated T-shirts like people wear the Han shot first shirts
Why would Gollum go west he wanted the ring which he knew Bilbo had and who he led to the Eastern door. Only by going West would he get the chance to find Bilbo and get the Ring.
@@Cybernaut76 Had gollum not jumped upon Frodo and bit the ring off, it would certainly have been Gollum 2 in the making. Luckily the two neutralised each other's plans. Had neither been there it would have been disaster.
@@adammoss5284 When Frodo put The One Ring to his hand for the last time, Sauron was understandably absolutely terrified (so he commanded the Nazgul to abandon their participation to Battle of Morannon and hurry up with their maximum speed to Orodruin) because, just like Gandalf, he knew perfectly well that a hobbit or two hobbits with The One Ring in the immediate vinicity of Sammath Naur can prove to be absolutely unmitigated catastrophe of epic proportions to him (which also came to pass that way). By the way, you are so correct in your estimate. There is a movie series of Finnish production, where Frodo, once he steps into Mordor (I think he had passed Minas Morgul or at least was very close to it), has his voice changed into rather hoarse almost like he was a lifetime very heavy smoker (by smoker I dont mean the Middle Earths little known pipeweed but our Earths well known cigarettes) and when under the influence of The One Ring or lusting after it, he spoke even in Gollums voice. Once he returned to Shire, he still had the same hoarse voice. Even taking a lot of distance to Mordor and having The One Ring destroyed did not ever in his lifetime heal his voice back to what it once was. I dont know about other products but that was a LOTR movie series made by some Finnish people. When every movie from that serie ends, there is the song in Finnish language "tulen ääressä istun" ("I Sit Beside the Fire and Think").
@@Cybernaut76 Absolutely fascinating to read your reply. I now see yet another dimension to it unfold and require investigating. Thank you. I wish you well and many happy hours with the enduring story. All the very best, Adam.
I feared this video would appear too commercial given the recent video game launch. Instead, I believe you absolutely nailed your probable intent: provide tons of background on Golem that stood alone as a fantastic bit of lore building for us not playing the game and enticing those on the fence to be thoroughly enamored with this tragic storyline. Well done.
I love this channel. I'm a huge fan of mimicry, voice artistry in general. And our host is quite talented in that arena. I love his Gollum voice, and his Smaug voice, and others.
I feel Gollum’s biggest tragedy was his final acts. Being an act of selfishness, his soul would likely not find peace, nor would he live to be healed from the absence of the One Ring’s dark power. Perhaps he was a dark creature, but I do believe he was one very much deserving of peace or aide, for he became something which was never truly meant to be, due to a great evil shadow. At the very least, here is to hoping he was given a second chance in a peaceful Fourth Age.
His demise was crucial because the ring actually would not allow any ring bearer to destroy it. That was Sauron's insurance in the books, the ring totally overriding the will of Isildur, Frodo, etc. But the ring could not control 2 people fighting for it right next to the edge of the volcano. That chain of events was like a slap in the face to Sauron by LotR's god, Eru Illuvatar. The ring could not be destroyed, until Eru said "oh really?!"
The whole point is that his death could have been avoided had he upheld his promise to Frodo and the Ring. Tolkien has a specific line in The Hobbit that mentions oaths and promises are magical in nature and when a promise is made by ancient creatures, they will uphold it in fear of the consequences that will come. Gollum's death was basically Eru Illuvatar's punishment
and just remember 900 or so miles of gollum's journey was spent being dragged around by aragorn. with gollum likely screaming his head off "it burns! it burns us!"
If I'm remembering correctly: 1. Sauron 2. Isildur 3. Deagol 4. Smeagol\Gollum 5. Bilbo 6. Frodo 7. Tom Bombadil (sort of?) 8. Sam 9. Frodo (2) 10. Gollum. (Not being any kind of an expert, I could be wrong here somewhere.)
@@toddkurzbard Tom Bombadil doesn't count, he played with the ring he didn't wore it. And I don't think you should count those who wore it several times, so the last one is Sam, the seventh ^^
@@krankarvolund7771 depends on what you mean by "wore it". he actually did wear it for a brief period as Frodo was shocked that when Tom put it on, he did not turn invisible. the ring had no power over Tom. So if that is what you mean then yes he did wear it. He just didnt carry it for a great while
I always felt bad for Gollum and was bewildered that so many people I talked to about it didn't. I feel like if you don't feel sorry for him, you're missing the whole point of his part in the story.
Congrats on making it into the MTG LOTR official video! You make the best LOTR content and deserve to be invited to such a prestigious event in the MTG x LOTR world.
@Dinoman9877 I know. My heart broke when I saw that it was an epic exclusive. But, in the end, they always come to steam. We just have to hold out a little longer
The split personality of Gollum and Sméagol seems to be more of a film interpretation of the character, and it makes sense to me; in his final scenes of the film, I think his mind was finally mended and was no longer split, and he became his true self. Sméagol IS Gollum, Gollum IS Sméagol, and it’s his true vile nature.
This game seems to be built around a nice concept. Also letting players make their choices as to what Smeagol/Gollum would do, something Gollum didn't have a choice over-but it's interesting to see the different outcomes. Hope the devs of this game won't abandon this project and continue to improve it, wouldn't like to see such an unique concept fail.
Anything on gollum is a must watch for me especially from your channel your videos relax me before bed your voice and my favourite story franchise always has me going to sleep in a good mood :)
I know it says that Eru intervened but why would he need to? Gollum was so focused on the ring, so I can totally see him not paying attention, slipping and falling without any intervention required
Eru's intervention is like the Christian concept of divine providence, or of divine grace. Eru moved all encounters of Gollum to spare his life, just as God saved Cain from harm after he murdered his own brother. Eru knew that the evil of the ring would move gollum to be its destroyer, and so allowed the events to take place all the way to Mount doom. It's like how in the Christian narrative, it is God's will to die on the cross, but it is the evil of mankind that eventually crucifies Him unjustly, so He can use that evil to destroy evil once and for all
It is never actually said that Eru intervened directly. The common idea that he "pushed" Gollum off the cliff is very wrong. Tolkien was alluding to fade/destiny/Eru's design. Gollum broke an Oath, and according to the rules of the world as Eru created them, those who break an Oath will inevitably be punished for it. Also Eru designed the physics of the world, and it's pretty much due to physics that a guy recklessly dancing and jumping on an uneven surface on the edge of a 200 ft drop into lava has a 99% chance of falling to his death.
@@remembernavarro5344 not "strongest" powervise, we all know golum aint beating anything larger than a hobbit, golum has the strongest personality/Characterization AKA well written. stop being an autizmo
@@dkupke what Frodo gave him in front of the Black Gate, in chapter 3 of book IV, happened basically word for word: "In the last need, Sméagol, I should put on the Precious; and the Precious mastered you long ago. If I, wearing it, were to command you, you would obey, even if it were to leap from a precipice or to cast yourself into the fire. And such would be my command."
My Gosh! What an amazing video! I have said it many times, Matt you’d make an excellent audiobook reader! You do a terrific job of voicing and bringing in the moments of emotion within the dialogue. This was truly fantastic! A thought I had, it must’ve been so freaky for the Fellowship to be aware of Gollum tracking them from Moria and on and along the Anduin. To be traveling and constantly knowing there is someone dangerous just beyond your sight must be agonizing. Again thank you for another amazing video!
If you take an omniscient view of the books we have, much of the third age is really Gollums story. I think Tolkien knew that the hero's tale was much better entertainment and sorely needed at that moment in the real world.
Though the voicing of Gollum here, and in the movie, is well done, I have never been happy with the 'gollum' SOUND. The noise he makes is not SPEAKING the word 'gollum' with that voice, but it is sounds made in the back of his mouth at the beginning of the throat. It is a sort of gulping sound which SOUNDS like 'gollum', but isn't the WORD 'gollum', and that is why he is called that. It is somewhat akin to a frog sound - though by no means the same. I wish you all could hear what I mean; I think it's a cool sound (yet at the same time, a disturbing one).
I've always wondered something about Gollum, given how he hates Bilbo for stealing the One Ring from him, did he try to hunt down the Hobbit by going into the Shire? I mean his desire for the Ring would make him travel far and wide
A distinction, it's easier to entrap when you know a person is following you, Frodo&Sam. Than when a person is hunting a prey and you are ignorant of their whereabouts, Aragon.
Incredible inverse; the villain Sauron had his finger cut off by the hero Isildur who then doomed the Third Age by not destroying the Ring, and later the hero Frodo had his finger cut off by the villain Gollum who then saved the world by falling with the Ring.
Whelp, now we need a "What if Sméagol/Gollum had regained the One Ring?" video from you to go alongside the others. I imagine, given how sneaky and slippery he was, he very well could have crept back out of Mordor and gone to ground for a long, long time. Maybe he would have graduated from fish to goblins, goblins to orcs and men, then on to eating elves and monsters; haunting the shadows of the world, getting ever more glutinous and insane while the armies above continuously ground away at each other...?
The artwork in this i absolutely love. The different versions but they're all very close. He should have been made a bit more bigger, muscular wise. He is a strong being. After all his travels, climbing through mountains, eating fish, and flesh, he does have large hands and feet like a hobbit though.
What description did Bilbo give about living a long life while having the ring of power "it's like like butter spread over too much bread" so the soul is being stretched by time.
I wonder if Smeagol would've still betrayed the hobbits had they been more transparent with him. Not necessarily telling him they're going to destroy the ring, but at least, assure him that it wasn't going to Sauron.
I am a bit curious as to why did the Nazguls find Smeagols childhood community abandoned by the time they went there mistaking it for Shire. Maybe Dol Guldur or Mirkwood eventually made their neighborhood too unpleasant/dangerous to put up with.
the other days, I felt nervous, on edge, videos I was trying to watch annoyed me until I chanced upon one of your videos, after a few minutes I realised I was more relaxed I think it was your voice.
@@sungreenx1776 No, Gandalf specifically avoided directly touching the ring. Also, if Gandalf somehow were to have been considered a ring bearer then so too would Boromir because he handled the chain Frodo wore to keep the ring on him.
Would you be up for doing another ‘what-if’? I wanna know what you think would happen if Sméagol didn’t take the One Ring for himself in Mount Doom, if he decided to have it be unmade in the fires which made it?
I saw the sponsor and googled it. Wow. The amount of negative review on Steam... Even some of the positive reviews are just satire. I'm glad I read the review before spending 50 bucks.
Can you do a video of what would happen if Gollum was saved from falling in Mt Doom's lava, but The Ring still gets destroyed? Would he regain his identity as Smeagol? Would he join Frodo and Bilbo as a friend on the White Ship?
Smeagol resonates at a primal level with human frailties and flaws and may serve as a tacit allegory of our reactions to how emotional similarities the failures of others evoke in us can reflect upon our own. Primal, in that this evocation resonates and amplifies its effects primarily among beings possessed of a kind spirit and disposition underpinning their most basic intrinsic ethic foundations. Reminds me a lot of C.S. Lewis.
Clarification of the shown map at about 25:08 -- The hobbits, followed by Gollum first went north, between the Morgai ridge and the Mountains of Shadow, until they were close to Durthang. I'm not referencing directly from the books but rather from memory; and I remember they were integrated into the marching orc army about that time, which army was on its way to Carach Angren and Udun. When that army and a few other orc armies come together approaching Carach Angren, there is confusion. Frodo and Sam escape eastward and follow the road for quite a way until turning almost due south on a bee-line for Mount Doom.
it doesn't make any sense to me why Gollum became so animalistic like eating raw goblin meat and not being clothed or seeking any comforts or even protection for his feet or flesh. It was in his background to eat cooked food and make fires as a hobbit. I don't think we saw Bilbo ever want to give away all of a hobbits pleasures like clothing, food, smoking or whatever.
Is the silmarillion the best book if i wanted to read about the lore? These videos have me wanting to read about all of LOTR universes lore. Its the best lore dive I've had since star wars and elder scrolls
The silmarillion was my Everest. My love of LOTR was what helped me push through it. I will say there is a lot of cool stuff throughout; bits of information that tie into this and that. I’d recommend reading it if you’re a completionist. Also, it probably helps to be good at remembering names, a skill I do not possess, because there are so.many.names!
Just ran across your 1966 Hobbit live stream where in you were excited about reaching 250 subscribers when google suggested an article about a new AI rendering of Gollum. It mentioned the 1966 film so I had to find it, then found your live stream. Now you’re approaching 1 million. What a journey.
Im a little sad Rankin Bass's Gollum didnt mame it into the slides, but i still enjoy this great video!❤ Also, It's pretty cool that Gollum was able to travel very far and cover vast areas not may Hobbits would dare too! I'd say he was an expert tracker and Hunter, able to elude many who would underestimate him! This matched by his cruelty and strength makes him a foe you wouldnt want to cross, yet shows what hobbits are capable of!
The influence of the one ring corrupts the corruptible. Did the inducement and compulsion of the one cause this to happen where otherwise it would have never occurred? I think so; what say you?
For those curious, my review of the Gollum game will post next week!
In the meantime, I'll be streaming the game again tomorrow (Sunday). Tune in here: ua-cam.com/users/livev_0v743j5ps?feature=share
thanks
Will the review be sponsored though? So far every critic I've seen is unanimous on how terrible the game is
@@fulguratingbean9489 lol. No, the review will not be sponsored.😂
Might you know more about the future of the game?
@@fulguratingbean9489 yeah penguinz0 went all out
In his final moments, he was reunited with his precious and was victorious in a sense.
I like to think that, in his own twisted way, he died happy.
Tolkien sure loved irony! Imagine what must have gone through Gollums mind when he found out that eight decades later, another Baggins (this time Frodo) shows up and he too has The Ring, The "Precious". Also think about this: Long before the events of Hobbit, orcs of Mount Gram invaded Shire. Bandobras Took beheaded the Orc king Golfimbul with a wooden club and Golfimbuls head flew until it dropped into a rabbit hole. That inspired hobbits of the Shire to invent a new game where you hit the ball to a hole on the ground and named that game golf.
Well, no, because he watched the ring melt in front of him. He couldn't even have that xP He does not look happy at all as he melts
**I misspoke and said Frodo was the 5th ringbearer, when he is actually 6th. Apologies!
Sauron, Isildur, Deagol, Smeagol, Bilbo, Frodo is my count.
Im glad I checked the comments first before speaking up. Maybe pin this comment?
I listened to it twice confused
@@goggles86 and I'm glad I checked the replies as I was gonna say this word for word. For a moment I thought it was me and I somehow just forgot I did.
Does Deagol count , he found it but did not wear it right ?
Gollum is honestly one of the most masterfully written characters in any media simply because Tolkien perfectly balances your hatred and sympathy for him when reading. He does vile acts and constantly lies and cheats, but he's so pathetic and his existence is so painful that you can't help but feel sorry for him. It's as if because Tolkien puts him through endless suffering, we as a reader give him endless pity even as he's attempting to kill Frodo and Sam. Then, of course, the revelation that he's needed to destroy the One Ring in the end shows that all that pity and kindness is not foolish or naive, but in reality, what ends up saving the world.
Bro, he eats babies. Tolkien wrote him as a victim turned abuser, wicked in every aspect after encountering the ring, he uses being kicked as permission to kick all others. You should be careful, I see an easy mark in you.
It was a study in duality, not just the Gollum/Smeagal split persona, but the readers opinions of him changing just as often depending on the scene.
ya dude i totally agree, its crazy to think that in the end he played a 100% critical role is destroying the ring. Tolkien shows us that kindness / forgiveness / compassion can be critical in reaching our goals in life :)
Nobody likes Gollum lmao, most boring Tolkien character
@Discourse And you think your modern psychoanalytic take is the end of the discussion? What an arrogant fool. This comment is spot on. Relax, ace.
Imagine how absolutely mind fucked Gollum was when he found ANOTHER Baggins and he ALSO had the ring. Lmao
This comment made me burst out laughing
Why it be so hard for Gollum
to believe the ring was passed on to aBaggins relative.Gollum is quite aware of how that would work. He was a hobbit himself. Tolkien himself insinuated Gollum may actually have been more aware of the rings movement after Bilbo aquired it than we knew.
LOL I think about that all the time
It actually plays into the shared experience between how there's all this duality going on. Gollum being 2 entities in a single body and two Baggin's that also had the ring.
I can’t stop laughing out loud 😂
10/10 voicing the Sméagol/Gollum discussion. Most Gollum impressions come across as uncanny and slightly off. Andy Serkis, Liam O'brian and yourself are really the only people I've heard pull it off so well yet remain slightly different to each other.
Rob Pearson too. 😉
And Jonathan Decker from cinema therapy!!!!
Actually the best Gollum voice ever was performed by Brother Theodore in the 1977, Rankin/Bass version of The Hobbit.
Wait, that was you in the video?😯🤯
Thought it was Andy, good job!
I agree!
The Gollum game sure does a great job of capturing the absolute misery that is Gollum’s life.
Probably gives a good description of his eyesight too
Does a good job capturing that PS3 game graphics
Bro he graphics are trash, whyu complimentin them
@@NikoCigojThe game is just as miserable as Gollum.
Ja weil es echt trash ist
My goodness, the films make it seem like Aragorn has spent no time with Gollum, there could be an entire set of novels or shows set on Aragorn’s travels with Gollum. Awesome vid as always!
Well if u read the book before watching the film then u kind of piece together the things that happen off screen. But an average viewer would have no idea Aragorn ever met gollum
He spent more time with Gollum than Eowyn, he liked his cooking better
There is a film of that which you speak. The Hunt For Gollum - 2009
@@ironfist7789 I heard he prepares his fish juicy sweet
@@helpIthinkmylegsaregone with a side of crunchable birdsies?
Some of these illustrations of Gollum are legitimately terrifying.
I think the movies made Gollum way too sympathetic. True, he was tragic in the books, too, but he had also been eating babies. His evilness is often overlooked or excused in the movies.
I think Andy Serkis' Gollum voice adds to this as well. The first version of LotR I ever partook in was a radio play in which Gollum sounded a lot more evil and slimy, partially because the man voicing him didn't distort his voice much.
(to anyone curious: ua-cam.com/video/E_Ns3e8RRW0/v-deo.html It's in Swedish)
He's really difficult to pin. The books consistently refer to Gollum as "evil", which is why he is burned by the Elvish rope and can't eat lembas, but at the same time he seems to waver all the way until Shelob's cave, and Tolkien's also very clear that the Ring couldn't be destroyed without him and that Frodo forgave him in the end.
I would say, the Jackson movies arguably sell the idea that Gollum was redeemable better than the books do, and it's the closest the movies ever got to handling any character even marginally better than the books, but that's also at the cost of making Faramir come off as worse.
@@NeroIMLI don’t have much good to say about the rankin bass version, but brother Theodore was born to voice Gollum
@@krupam0 He murders and eats human infants, dude. Gollum is not redeemable, and Gandalolf acknowledges as much.
Under evil call/power of the ring how many would persist, my friend. Even Isildur succumbed. And Aragorn was hailed as heir of Isildur.
That’s one well-traveled little man right there.
Indeed he is!
Your reading and voice work in this video is just exceptional. You would make such a great narrator for an audio book of LOTR.
One thing I also like about Gollum is the contrast and warning he is to both Frodo and Sam as ring bearers. Not just because pity is a noble quality, but also out of respect to what Gollum was and what Frodo might become should the Ring win power over him. They spare him because who would pity them if that happened?
In some Finnish movie/serie productions, Frodos voice eventually, when already near and in Mordor, becomes hoarse like he was a heavy smoker. Sometimes he speaks like Gollum when under some influence from The Ring. You get the impression that Rings destruction in Sammath Naur rescued Frodo from something at least remotely resembling Gollums fate. His voice became permanently hoarse though.
That gollum voice is actually perfect. If it's you, you knocked it out of the park. Adds so much to the video.
I think one of the biggest tragedies in LoTR is that Gollem never met Galadriel. It would have been interesting to see what she sensed in him and how Gollem would have reacted to seeing such a purely good and beautiful being. It might have even changed Gollem forever
I don’t think Gollum could’ve tolerated Galadriel’s presence.
Not after rings of power
Your impersonation of Smeagol is spot on 👌
I really like the breaking of the oath scenario.
One thing I love about your channel is how you exemplify these LOTR artists! Their work gets so many new eyes because of your channel! ❤
Tolkien actually blamed Sam for Gollum's death. While Frodo was trying to help Sméagol, Sam wasn't having any of it. He constantly berated Sméagol for anything and everything, and according to Tolkien, that was why Gollum was never redeemed. There was a moment in The Two Towers book where Frodo and Sam were napping on the Stairs of Cirith Ungol when Gollum came up to them. After a moment of inner turmoil, it looked like Sméagol had finally won out. He even caressed Frodo's leg before Sam awoke and accused him of "sneaking."
According to Tolkien, that exchange was one of the most tragic parts of the Lord of the Rings story. In Letter 246, he explained that "Sam fail[ed] to note the complete change in Gollum's tone and aspect. 'Nothing, nothing', said Gollum softly. 'Nice master!'." Thus, it was only seconds after his near-redemption that Sam was back to accusing him of foul play. Tolkien went on to explain how Gollum's repentance was ruined by Sam's brash and defensive comments.
Of course, Sam had to act that way for The Lord of the Rings' narrative, so he can't really be blamed. But still, if Sam hadn't acted in such a way, Gollum could have been redeemed. Tolkien even hypothesized an alternate ending where Gollum took the Ring from Frodo so that he could willingly sacrifice himself and save his master. In that way, Sam was responsible for Gollum's death -- because he prevented Gollum from being redeemed.
Chopping Sams actions up to narrative needs does a disservice to well, the narrative i guess?
my point being that it makes good sense for Sam to react in the way he did - a change of heart where Sam suddenly trusts Gollum would have seemed more contrived, especially if Gollum ultimately redeemed himself.
Gollum's death was his own fault. Words are extremely powerful in Middle-Earth, when Gollum swore upon the Precious that meant something to the fabric of the world Eru Illuvatar created. Once Gollum broke that oath, his death was guaranteed. Remember, in The Hobbit Tolkien outright says that creatures like Gollum *always* fulfilled promises or oaths as these were magical in nature and had consequences
It is interesting, as the Necromancer, Sauron set up his base in southwest Rhovanion Forest, next to the Anduin river. While not outright stated, he probably believed his one ring would show up in the river, or on the banks there eventually. It probably upset him to learn that the ring was found up river, with the one possessing it hiding in the mountains on the other side of the river from him for centuries.
Imagine if Gollum had chosen to search for the Ring on the West side of the Misty Mountains instead of the East side …
Then he would have had to deal with the Dunedain I'm afraid..
I always imagine that he didn't put up with Bilbo's riddle game crap and just killed the cheater(what's in my pocket is not a riddle) and got the ring back.
Yeah, I'm nihilistic...I want to wear Bilbo cheated T-shirts like people wear the Han shot first shirts
In fact, he probably should have tried that, seeing as he came from that side.
Edit: At least I think he did.
Why would Gollum go west he wanted the ring which he knew Bilbo had and who he led to the Eastern door. Only by going West would he get the chance to find Bilbo and get the Ring.
@@kira1834 True, but he needed help getting out, so one could deduce he could have come in another way than the East.
The pity of Bilbo and Frodo saved Middle Earth. While Gollum never changed, his relentless pursuit of the One Ring ultimately saved Middle Earth.
Pride came before his fall
@@adammoss5284 Pride, greed and lust for power. The Ring almost transformed Frodo into Gollum 2 but it was destroyed before that.
@@Cybernaut76 Had gollum not jumped upon Frodo and bit the ring off, it would certainly have been Gollum 2 in the making. Luckily the two neutralised each other's plans. Had neither been there it would have been disaster.
@@adammoss5284 When Frodo put The One Ring to his hand for the last time, Sauron was understandably absolutely terrified (so he commanded the Nazgul to abandon their participation to Battle of Morannon and hurry up with their maximum speed to Orodruin) because, just like Gandalf, he knew perfectly well that a hobbit or two hobbits with The One Ring in the immediate vinicity of Sammath Naur can prove to be absolutely unmitigated catastrophe of epic proportions to him (which also came to pass that way). By the way, you are so correct in your estimate. There is a movie series of Finnish production, where Frodo, once he steps into Mordor (I think he had passed Minas Morgul or at least was very close to it), has his voice changed into rather hoarse almost like he was a lifetime very heavy smoker (by smoker I dont mean the Middle Earths little known pipeweed but our Earths well known cigarettes) and when under the influence of The One Ring or lusting after it, he spoke even in Gollums voice. Once he returned to Shire, he still had the same hoarse voice. Even taking a lot of distance to Mordor and having The One Ring destroyed did not ever in his lifetime heal his voice back to what it once was. I dont know about other products but that was a LOTR movie series made by some Finnish people. When every movie from that serie ends, there is the song in Finnish language "tulen ääressä istun" ("I Sit Beside the Fire and Think").
@@Cybernaut76 Absolutely fascinating to read your reply. I now see yet another dimension to it unfold and require investigating. Thank you. I wish you well and many happy hours with the enduring story. All the very best, Adam.
I feared this video would appear too commercial given the recent video game launch. Instead, I believe you absolutely nailed your probable intent: provide tons of background on Golem that stood alone as a fantastic bit of lore building for us not playing the game and enticing those on the fence to be thoroughly enamored with this tragic storyline. Well done.
Read the book as far back as 1979 and only just realised that both Sauron and Frodo lost a finger the same time the ring was taken away from them.
I love this channel. I'm a huge fan of mimicry, voice artistry in general. And our host is quite talented in that arena. I love his Gollum voice, and his Smaug voice, and others.
I feel Gollum’s biggest tragedy was his final acts. Being an act of selfishness, his soul would likely not find peace, nor would he live to be healed from the absence of the One Ring’s dark power. Perhaps he was a dark creature, but I do believe he was one very much deserving of peace or aide, for he became something which was never truly meant to be, due to a great evil shadow. At the very least, here is to hoping he was given a second chance in a peaceful Fourth Age.
In his final moments, he was reunited with his precious and was victorious in a sense.
I like to think that, in his own twisted way, he died happy.
Deserving of peace? He ate babies ffs he was twisted, demented and pathetic and deserved nothing more than a gruesome death
His demise was crucial because the ring actually would not allow any ring bearer to destroy it. That was Sauron's insurance in the books, the ring totally overriding the will of Isildur, Frodo, etc. But the ring could not control 2 people fighting for it right next to the edge of the volcano. That chain of events was like a slap in the face to Sauron by LotR's god, Eru Illuvatar. The ring could not be destroyed, until Eru said "oh really?!"
The whole point is that his death could have been avoided had he upheld his promise to Frodo and the Ring. Tolkien has a specific line in The Hobbit that mentions oaths and promises are magical in nature and when a promise is made by ancient creatures, they will uphold it in fear of the consequences that will come. Gollum's death was basically Eru Illuvatar's punishment
I will always see the 1977 animated version as the true Gollum. He was very froglike, which made sense given his proclivity towards swimming.
That one is my favorite, too. It was why I was so anticipating Gollum's appearance in the films.
I'm still hoping to obtain a copy some day, I watched a friend's copy many years ago
Theodore Bikel man. Forget about it
@@martykitson3442 Find a digital copy. They are all over the place. I'd link one but I think that violates YT's stupid TOS.
@@martykitson3442I got a copy of it off Amazon about 2 years ago
and just remember 900 or so miles of gollum's journey was spent being dragged around by aragorn. with gollum likely screaming his head off "it burns! it burns us!"
Oops, little error at 2:15. If Smeagol was the fourth ringbearer then Frodo cannot be the fifth as Bilbo had the ring between them.
If I'm remembering correctly:
1. Sauron
2. Isildur
3. Deagol
4. Smeagol\Gollum
5. Bilbo
6. Frodo
7. Tom Bombadil (sort of?)
8. Sam
9. Frodo (2)
10. Gollum.
(Not being any kind of an expert, I could be wrong here somewhere.)
@@toddkurzbard Tom Bombadil doesn't count, he played with the ring he didn't wore it. And I don't think you should count those who wore it several times, so the last one is Sam, the seventh ^^
@@krankarvolund7771 depends on what you mean by "wore it". he actually did wear it for a brief period as Frodo was shocked that when Tom put it on, he did not turn invisible. the ring had no power over Tom. So if that is what you mean then yes he did wear it. He just didnt carry it for a great while
@@marvthedog1972 My understanding is that he didn't really wore it, he just played with it, for him, it was just a useless toy, nothing more ^^
@@krankarvolund7771 bombadil did wear the ring for a brief moment. It had no effect on him.
I always felt bad for Gollum and was bewildered that so many people I talked to about it didn't. I feel like if you don't feel sorry for him, you're missing the whole point of his part in the story.
Congrats on making it into the MTG LOTR official video! You make the best LOTR content and deserve to be invited to such a prestigious event in the MTG x LOTR world.
The gollum game is hot dog water inside of a dumpster fire. Great video tho and I love your content!
Hope the Moria game is better
Hot dog water will put out a dumpster fire so you're saying it works great?
@Dinoman9877 If only it wasnt an epic exclusive..
@@connoo-101 Oh- Why?!
How many more games have to do that before they realize that's a good way to kill it on the launchpad?
@Dinoman9877 I know. My heart broke when I saw that it was an epic exclusive. But, in the end, they always come to steam. We just have to hold out a little longer
The split personality of Gollum and Sméagol seems to be more of a film interpretation of the character, and it makes sense to me; in his final scenes of the film, I think his mind was finally mended and was no longer split, and he became his true self. Sméagol IS Gollum, Gollum IS Sméagol, and it’s his true vile nature.
It’s incredible that one man had such an imagination to tell these tales. Amazing
This game seems to be built around a nice concept.
Also letting players make their choices as to what Smeagol/Gollum would do, something Gollum didn't have a choice over-but it's interesting to see the different outcomes.
Hope the devs of this game won't abandon this project and continue to improve it, wouldn't like to see such an unique concept fail.
Anything on gollum is a must watch for me especially from your channel your videos relax me before bed your voice and my favourite story franchise always has me going to sleep in a good mood :)
Me too! 🙏🏻
I know it says that Eru intervened but why would he need to? Gollum was so focused on the ring, so I can totally see him not paying attention, slipping and falling without any intervention required
Eru's intervention is like the Christian concept of divine providence, or of divine grace. Eru moved all encounters of Gollum to spare his life, just as God saved Cain from harm after he murdered his own brother. Eru knew that the evil of the ring would move gollum to be its destroyer, and so allowed the events to take place all the way to Mount doom. It's like how in the Christian narrative, it is God's will to die on the cross, but it is the evil of mankind that eventually crucifies Him unjustly, so He can use that evil to destroy evil once and for all
It is never actually said that Eru intervened directly. The common idea that he "pushed" Gollum off the cliff is very wrong. Tolkien was alluding to fade/destiny/Eru's design. Gollum broke an Oath, and according to the rules of the world as Eru created them, those who break an Oath will inevitably be punished for it. Also Eru designed the physics of the world, and it's pretty much due to physics that a guy recklessly dancing and jumping on an uneven surface on the edge of a 200 ft drop into lava has a 99% chance of falling to his death.
On further thought: Gollum is by far the strangest creation of Tolkiens world!
Shame that such a rich character has been turned into a joke by the new game v.v
There are far stranger characters, chief among them Tom Bombadil. Read the books.
@@remembernavarro5344 not "strongest" powervise, we all know golum aint beating anything larger than a hobbit, golum has the strongest personality/Characterization AKA well written. stop being an autizmo
I gotta admit I'm rather mixed on the slight implication that Gollum slipped and fell because of small intervention from Iluvitar.
it wasnt illuvatar. It was the ring itself. Frodo put a spell on gollum with the power of the ring that he whould fall if he stole it.
@@Sym0Sto,Kiev confirmed it as one of the few times iluvatar has directly intervened in middle earth
@@dkupke what Frodo gave him in front of the Black Gate, in chapter 3 of book IV, happened basically word for word:
"In the last need, Sméagol, I should put on the Precious; and the Precious mastered you long ago. If I, wearing it, were to command you, you would obey, even if it were to leap from a precipice or to cast yourself into the fire. And such would be my command."
@@Sym0SYou gonna disagree with what Tolkien himself stated?
@@Sym0S But he wasn't wearing it when Gullum fell, and he couldn't command it in the movie.
My Gosh! What an amazing video! I have said it many times, Matt you’d make an excellent audiobook reader! You do a terrific job of voicing and bringing in the moments of emotion within the dialogue. This was truly fantastic! A thought I had, it must’ve been so freaky for the Fellowship to be aware of Gollum tracking them from Moria and on and along the Anduin. To be traveling and constantly knowing there is someone dangerous just beyond your sight must be agonizing. Again thank you for another amazing video!
If you take an omniscient view of the books we have, much of the third age is really Gollums story. I think Tolkien knew that the hero's tale was much better entertainment and sorely needed at that moment in the real world.
Id like to see a 'what if' senario video of "what if the Fellowship captured Gollum prior the ending of FotR?"
Another cool one would be if Gollum wasnt pissed off by Sam while Frodo was sleeping around the 23 or 24 minute mark
The theory on breaking oaths is incredible! Loved that take on it and this video!
Though the voicing of Gollum here, and in the movie, is well done, I have never been happy with the 'gollum' SOUND. The noise he makes is not SPEAKING the word 'gollum' with that voice, but it is sounds made in the back of his mouth at the beginning of the throat. It is a sort of gulping sound which SOUNDS like 'gollum', but isn't the WORD 'gollum', and that is why he is called that. It is somewhat akin to a frog sound - though by no means the same. I wish you all could hear what I mean; I think it's a cool sound (yet at the same time, a disturbing one).
Excellent video, loved your impressions of Sméagol and Gollum. You've been killing it lately!
Imagine a road trip with Gollum and Aragorn. The greatest hero of the LOTR trilogy and some ranger dude.
I've always wondered something about Gollum, given how he hates Bilbo for stealing the One Ring from him, did he try to hunt down the Hobbit by going into the Shire? I mean his desire for the Ring would make him travel far and wide
I don’t think he knew where the shire was.
I like how he evades Aragorn, a trained hunter, for years, then gets caught by two 40 lb halflings
A distinction, it's easier to entrap when you know a person is following you, Frodo&Sam. Than when a person is hunting a prey and you are ignorant of their whereabouts, Aragon.
Thanks for all the amazing content and dedication. Aloha, from Big island!
27:19 What do Frodo and Sauron have in common? They both lost a finger 😂
Incredible inverse; the villain Sauron had his finger cut off by the hero Isildur who then doomed the Third Age by not destroying the Ring, and later the hero Frodo had his finger cut off by the villain Gollum who then saved the world by falling with the Ring.
Didnt the ring prolong his life? How could he become stronger after he loses it? Bilbo rapidly aged, despite good food and fresh air.
I think that’s just OP’s headcannon.
maybe having the right for 500 years filled him with its power more than it did Bilbo, like it gave him some spare years in advance
Sometimes I forget how old golumn is. I never thought that everyone he had know would have been long dead and gone.
Amazing gem of a channel. Thank you so much.
Thank you for telling us the story about Gollum. ❤
Damn, gotta be rough presenting a sponsorship of the Gollum game following the last 2 days...
At least we get a Nard of the Rings deep-dive out of it!
Fabulous retelling of Gollum's journey. Thank you. This is entertainment.
Whelp, now we need a "What if Sméagol/Gollum had regained the One Ring?" video from you to go alongside the others. I imagine, given how sneaky and slippery he was, he very well could have crept back out of Mordor and gone to ground for a long, long time.
Maybe he would have graduated from fish to goblins, goblins to orcs and men, then on to eating elves and monsters; haunting the shadows of the world, getting ever more glutinous and insane while the armies above continuously ground away at each other...?
Great! Matt appreciate ur content. All the best to a MILLION SUBS!!
Another creative week. Thank you nerd of the rings.😇
The artwork in this i absolutely love. The different versions but they're all very close. He should have been made a bit more bigger, muscular wise. He is a strong being. After all his travels, climbing through mountains, eating fish, and flesh, he does have large hands and feet like a hobbit though.
Brilliant inter weaving of events, using Tolkien's prose. 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
I know it’s said a lot but seriously dude! Your Andy Serkis Sméagol/Gollum impression is SPOT ON
The most good the gollum game has ever done is paying you.
What description did Bilbo give about living a long life while having the ring of power "it's like like butter spread over too much bread" so the soul is being stretched by time.
Sponsor aged like milk
I'm not a video game guy ; could you please explain ?
@@mikeyates7931 that game was garbage
@@casualsleepingdragon8501 good enough - thanks for letting me know - you are a gentleman and a scholar
@@mikeyates7931why do you type like that?
@@npickle54bcuz it’s a bot
*Absolutely WONDERFUL video!!! Explained in great depths and amazing visual representations…you receive an A+ Sir!!!👏🏼💯*
I would love a short story about gollum and Aragon's journey it be like a buddy cop movie where they buck the crap out of eachother
Wow, you do a VERY good Andy Serkis Gollum impression.
I wonder if Smeagol would've still betrayed the hobbits had they been more transparent with him. Not necessarily telling him they're going to destroy the ring, but at least, assure him that it wasn't going to Sauron.
Ok seriously good job on the voice acting. Its rly good
I am a bit curious as to why did the Nazguls find Smeagols childhood community abandoned by the time they went there mistaking it for Shire. Maybe Dol Guldur or Mirkwood eventually made their neighborhood too unpleasant/dangerous to put up with.
whoever voiced the voice of gollum was literally amazing lol, very immersive.
Loved the stream.
Gollum was hero his love and feels for the ring was mystery as he know what it means to have the ring of power
Gollum is the best character in all of LoTR!
the other days, I felt nervous, on edge, videos I was trying to watch annoyed me
until I chanced upon one of your videos, after a few minutes I realised I was more relaxed
I think it was your voice.
Wouldn't Bilbo have been the 5th ring-bearer, making Frodo the 6th? He was the one that got it, ostensibly, from Gollum.
1. Sauron
2. Isildor
3. Deagol
4. Smeagol/Gollum
5. Bilbo
6. Frodo
7. Samwise
@@blshouse Gandalf is technically in there too, when he threw the ring into the fire to see the markings on it
@@sungreenx1776 No, Gandalf specifically avoided directly touching the ring. Also, if Gandalf somehow were to have been considered a ring bearer then so too would Boromir because he handled the chain Frodo wore to keep the ring on him.
The depiction of Gollum in the thumbnail is perfect
Would you be up for doing another ‘what-if’? I wanna know what you think would happen if Sméagol didn’t take the One Ring for himself in Mount Doom, if he decided to have it be unmade in the fires which made it?
24:40 im surprised you did'nt share Sam's quote what he said to Gollum! It really does give an impact to Gollums possible redemption!
I saw the sponsor and googled it. Wow. The amount of negative review on Steam... Even some of the positive reviews are just satire. I'm glad I read the review before spending 50 bucks.
"Whats taters precious?" Politely asked Gollum, with a gentle and serene smile on his lips
Excellent video!! I'm amazed for how good your Gollum voice was (better than the one in Gollum's game)
Welp you're a better VO than the guy they got to do Gollum in the recent "game".
Can you do a video of what would happen if Gollum was saved from falling in Mt Doom's lava, but The Ring still gets destroyed? Would he regain his identity as Smeagol? Would he join Frodo and Bilbo as a friend on the White Ship?
I think he would die of old age. I'm pretty sure the power of the ring was what was still holding him together.
Smeagol resonates at a primal level with human frailties and flaws and may serve as a tacit allegory of our reactions to how emotional similarities the failures of others evoke in us can reflect upon our own. Primal, in that this evocation resonates and amplifies its effects primarily among beings possessed of a kind spirit and disposition underpinning their most basic intrinsic ethic foundations.
Reminds me a lot of C.S. Lewis.
21:18 Gollum is thinking of Shelob …
Clarification of the shown map at about 25:08 -- The hobbits, followed by Gollum first went north, between the Morgai ridge and the Mountains of Shadow, until they were close to Durthang. I'm not referencing directly from the books but rather from memory; and I remember they were integrated into the marching orc army about that time, which army was on its way to Carach Angren and Udun. When that army and a few other orc armies come together approaching Carach Angren, there is confusion. Frodo and Sam escape eastward and follow the road for quite a way until turning almost due south on a bee-line for Mount Doom.
Well done. Very interesting episode.
it doesn't make any sense to me why Gollum became so animalistic like eating raw goblin meat and not being clothed or seeking any comforts or even protection for his feet or flesh. It was in his background to eat cooked food and make fires as a hobbit. I don't think we saw Bilbo ever want to give away all of a hobbits pleasures like clothing, food, smoking or whatever.
Is the silmarillion the best book if i wanted to read about the lore?
These videos have me wanting to read about all of LOTR universes lore. Its the best lore dive I've had since star wars and elder scrolls
The silmarillion was my Everest. My love of LOTR was what helped me push through it. I will say there is a lot of cool stuff throughout; bits of information that tie into this and that. I’d recommend reading it if you’re a completionist. Also, it probably helps to be good at remembering names, a skill I do not possess, because there are so.many.names!
Read the silmarillion first, the unfinished tales and children of hurin
@@Kreege thank you!
Just ran across your 1966 Hobbit live stream where in you were excited about reaching 250 subscribers when google suggested an article about a new AI rendering of Gollum. It mentioned the 1966 film so I had to find it, then found your live stream. Now you’re approaching 1 million. What a journey.
Oof, that Ring of Power: Gollum ad didn't age well. Hope they paid you well lol.
Keep up the good work with the videos. I was watching when they come out!
Thanks so much for watching and subscribing, my friend!
28:18 Please do an episode about the Power Of Oaths. What do they with the Oath Takers? Is there a higher Power at work after taking an oath?
Most important character in the history of Middle Earth and beyond. Tragic and beautiful
Im a little sad Rankin Bass's Gollum didnt mame it into the slides, but i still enjoy this great video!❤ Also, It's pretty cool that Gollum was able to travel very far and cover vast areas not may Hobbits would dare too! I'd say he was an expert tracker and Hunter, able to elude many who would underestimate him! This matched by his cruelty and strength makes him a foe you wouldnt want to cross, yet shows what hobbits are capable of!
Tolkien is truly one of the greatest linguists and world builders of all time. It is truly a shame what Hollywood has done to his work lately.
The gollum voice acting is so on point 😂
I think it's important to remember that he ALWAYS had a lot of evil in him.
I mean, the first thing he does is kill his cousin.
The influence of the one ring corrupts the corruptible. Did the inducement and compulsion of the one cause this to happen where otherwise it would have never occurred? I think so; what say you?