TLC actually made sense. Dudley Boyz= Tables Hardy Boys= Ladders Edge and Christian= Chairs (Edge and Christian had a finisher called Conchairto back in the day) One of my favorite matches of the attitude era.
The conchairto was way before edge and Christian I believe the first time I heard that term was Jim Ross on world championship wrestling I believe it was in the late 80sAnd what the conchairto consisted of two guys would both have chairs and smash the guy in between while he was still standing up a chair shot from both sides coming in at the same time 🇺🇸🤘☘️
The TLC match made sense at first with the Hardy's Dudley's and Edge and Christian because of the storyline with it being all 3 groups signature weapons. Its been overdone now.
@@o2Monster_X nah I know how Corny feels about hardcore "garbage wrestling" and balcony dives, but what op said instantly reminded me of New Jack, who I am a fan of.
@douglas byron Smotherman raven was also an associate producer for raw before ever going to ecw, and had wrestled in wcw.. wrestled in the wwf.. Managed tag teams there as well and wrestled for a few territories like Continental
William Jones well, it’s that but it’s about too much swerving leads to burnout. When you are running at 100% every episode, you can only go up or people tune out, which leads to unnecessary injuries and accidents trying to outdo yourself.
@@wrayday7149 you're probably not wrong . Conry also seems like the type to reply more on the writing/story than the dangerous scenarios which we saw alot in ECW. But yes it's all dangerous when these people are doing this shit 300+ days a year with no rest.
Yep. Because he's old so school, it would seem like he'd be exactly the opposite and want the guys to be tough by doing stupid shit. The new guys could learn a lot from him in that regard.
Truth Hurts I understand the tools used to work on the ring being under there chairs and even backup monitors or something like that. Some of these weapons I never understood why they would be there. I’m not complaining though I do admittedly enjoy some hardcore stuff.
creoleDJ right or like a Barbed wire baseball bat is actually needed under the ring...I think crazy weapons like that should be brought by the wrestlers.
Candy glass if I recall. Maybe wrestling does that too? I hear if you ever need to dive through a window, wrap your neck in a T-shirt. Assuming you can't just kick out the window and climb out.
@Alan Smithee I dont watch japanese wrestling at all but just from the comment i felt like I knew who you were talking about. Googled it real quick and yup, its the guy i thought you were talking about. Guy is a complete fucking dipshit. Ive seen a few deathmatches of his and its garbage. I dont think he know show to do a single wrestling move.
It is called protecting the finish. Some people do it now. Some don't. Those that don't are the ones that do not deserve the respect to sell their finish.
@@hectorrico8661 Used sparingly, hardcore matches can be a useful tool to highlight particular nasty feuds between wrestlers....used every day and stupidly, they lose their impact and become pointless.
Oh yeah BBB, Mick Foley even pointed that out in his first book. He said you had to build up to a "No holds barred falls count anywhere match. Nowadays called 'hardcore matches'." Lmao
In the hood ol days of pro wrestling the fans brought in & believed. My great grandmother went to her grave hating Rick Flair & the Horsemen cause of the things they did to Dusty
some people still believe theres always 2 types of people theres those that can watch wrestling knowing that its scripted and fake and still enjoy it and could care less and then theres are those that speak out against it who arent really into it anymore so everyone is stupid for liking it i think wrestling can still always exist and be magic all its gotta take is for someone to come along who understands the history
Hardcore wrestling should follow the rules of Christmas. It's special because it happens for a few days in a year, but if it happens every day, it's no longer special.
I like a lot of hardcore wrestling, but there is a fine line between what's entertaining, and what's overkill. Light tubes, weed wackers, and staple guns have no place in wrestling.
I remember things like scaffold matches and I remember stupid things that they do to this day like going up on roofs and jumping off of them. Lots of the shit they do makes me wonder if a lot of the guys who do that crazy shit, if their life span will be cut by a few years.
@@skelington50 I'm really not a fan of scaffold matches due to them seeming overly risky while limiting what wrestlers can do a lot. Did you ever see the Dustin Rhodes vs. Black Top Bully match from Uncensored '95? That was a whole new level of stupid (I'll admit it was kind of entertaining because of that but I don't think it was supposed to be a comedy match).
Ive always assumed the kayfabe of hardcore weapons under the ring was that the wrestlers knew they were in a hardcore match that night so they put the weapons there themselves. In Mick Foleys street fight with Triple H he had his tacks hidden in the steps and his bat in the time keepers area implying he showed up early and hid them.
Like Eric Bischoff using the shifter (or adjustable wrench depending where in the world you are) in WCW, after he was "on" the ring crew setting the ring up.
ECW used occasional barbwire and thumbtacks, but never panes of glass. Hardcore matches weren't often used on ECW TV. The Funk v Sabu Born to be Wired and Sandman v Sabu Stairway to Hell didn't get on television. ECW TV was great!
I remember the first time i saw a superplex live Super destroyer did it, and for the time it looked so awesome and dangerous Now, its just another move
Absolutely - Cornette's mind is one of the greatest in wrestling. Just look at his collection of wrestling history. The guy is like a wrestling version of an astrophysics professor.
@@jamesgentry13 He's fuckin awesome!!!!! I've got friends who listen to ALL his UA-cam shit that aren't even wrestling fans (or haven't been since they were fuckin 8 like most people). I don't agree with his politics, but he's good people in my book.
I watched the Vice documentary on the CZW Tournament of Death (which I believe is still on UA-cam). I was aghast at what those guys would do to each other. Regular pro wrestling is hard enough on the body as it is, yet these guys were doing the barbed wire bats, fluorescent tubes, throwing through glass, breaking cinder blocks on top of their opponent's head with a sledgehammer etc. Heck, they even had these round discs with tacks or nails on one side, and they'd hammer them into each others heads. I watched them pull one out of someone's head afterwards with a pair of pliers, and it looked like it was about to rip the skin off his skull. Given that the owner is compelled to live and run his business out of his parents' house, one can only guess how little the wrestlers make for mutilating their bodies. And most seem to be very poor, so I bet they don't have health insurance. Dan Severn brought up a good point in a recent interview when he said fans at hardcore events will scream the brand name, and not the wrestlers' names, because they don't care about who's in the ring; they just want the violence. Watch the CZW documentary and you will hear the rabid fans screaming "CZW! CZW!!!" The wrestlers mean nothing. I'm curious how many from that Tournament of Death are going to wind up crippled or dead by the time they're thirty.
The only person that I can think of that has done a TOD and actually gone on to bigger and better things in their career is Moxley. I’m normally OK with a touch of hardcore on the rare occasion but I don’t understand how people can enjoy stuff like TOD.
@@treytreytrey I keep forgetting that Moxley/Ambrose was from there, I can only think of Thumbtack Jack as a recognizable name and I've never seen even one of his matches. I've never even seen a CZW match because it just looked way too gruesome to me. I can only think of that guy with the whole syringes shoved in his mouth and face and nothing else...
Hardcore wrestling is something you can use to end a great fued or when it fits with someone's gimmick. But you can't have profitable,long lasting promotion and keep your wrestler in good shape if that's all you do. You are also hurting yourself because people get used to it and it loses it's magic. If somebody goes trough a table 5x a year is special. If people get smashed trough the table 15x a night over and over again it gets stale .
i agree with you on that theres a lot of promotions that do hardcore wrestling every single night and they have their niche audience but then again it can get boring really quick to watch it every single night but if you do it every now and then like to end a big fued then i think it works well like people say too much of anything isnt any good
The thing that always confused me about hardcore matches is that this week, champion Joe Face loses his title in a standard match because Jack Heel smashes him with a chair when the ref is distracted. Then, next week, Joe and Jack hit each other 100s of times with a chair in a no DQ exchange and they kick out over and over again until Joe Face hits a standard DDT dead center in the ring, and wins the title back that way. It sort of ruined the impact of the chair shot as a finish for me, for the longest time.
I know what you mean. You could argue that being hit by a chair in a normal match is different if it's a sneak attack due to it not being expected but that doesn't seem like it should justify it going from match ending to having as much impact as a clothesline or body slam.
ECW is metal as fuck! Slayer, Metallica, Motorhead, Pantera, White Zombie. I feel like of you're not into Punk Rock, Heavy Metal, or Gangsta Rap... Then you won't like ECW. It's a show for the gritty badass punk rockers
That DVD was OK, but I prefer Hardcore Forever. As it went into more detail and had guys like Shane Douglas on the Documentary. Rise and Fall was OK, but not having Douglas in there when he was the first champion makes little to no sense.
I've watched this several times and still wish Jim would eventually release a tell-all about his "shopping lists" and how gimmicked objects were put together and used and other such secrets of the industry. It's fascinating to get his take of this stuff.
Craziest thing I have seen in a match involving weapons/the surroundings was when Angle tried throwing Shane McMahon through the glass and it didnt break which made him fall onto his neck on the concrete...then Shane being the badass he is whispered "throw me again" and then it broke. Cant remember if it broke on the 2nd or 3rd try but my god it looked awesome and certified Shanes toughness.
I don't believe he whispered - from my recollection of what Shane said, he told Angle in pretty colourful language to throw him through the glass!! Two suplexes failed, so Angle just hurled him forwards through the panel.
@@MikeyMUnited yes, on the way back. He threw him through two panes of glass, one from the front which took two tries, and then back through the pane next to it. He hurled him through that one after it didn't break on two suplexes.
Somehow I wish there where more Jim´s today. He brings it like a) he wants to protect the athletes and b) won´t do anything without a very good reason with a broader few of the whole picture - and not just for the effect of the stunt only.
I agree with conry hardcore matches should be more of a natural thing to ware wrestlers use stuff that's already there and it's always a wrestler bringing out props in a shopping cart, props getting set up around the ring with barbed wire before the match. Now it's a over done thing with people doing the same type of hardcore style of match.
marquise booker True and also the dumb "hardcore" gimmick ppvs. Hell in a cell should be used to end a blood feud, similar with extreme rules but these days most of the feuds start with such gimmicks because the storyline started right before the gimmick ppv. how back ward it is where a feud starts with hell in a cell and ends with a singles normal match on a weekly show. makes no sense
Well I'm pretty sure if anything is allowed in a hardcore match wrestlers would try to bring their own weapons so they can, y'know, win the fucking match.
That's why I like how Rhino and Raven would bring a shopping cart full of weapons made more sense or how New Jack would bring a trash can full of weapons made more sense than finding all that shit under the ring.
i love when cornette criticizes hardcore wrestling. can't believe they're still doing it. did you see that skateboard spot? jelly did a little hairflip and then stood there hunched over, waiting for so long to get some tacks in his back
As a kid growing up I learned that wrestlers would hid things under the ring before the first match of the night because I remember when I was just 7yrs old or so at the time that Jake the snake Roberts was banned from having his Cobra at ringside so he had it under the ring so he didn't walk to the ring with it and I believe that was the night that Jake had the Cobra bite Macho Man Randy Savage if I'm not mistaking.
I was watching old mid90’s WWE and in a match someone sprayed a type C fire extinguisher... which is a dry chem a.k.a an irritant... long cut away and someone realized the mistake and ran the correct extinguisher out to the guy. Meanwhile the front row is choking.
As a fan of ECW, I was never a fan of death matches. And I thought they were different from a typical blood and guts promotion. I enjoyed the athletic high impact style of RVD and Sabu. Essentially I enjoyed table spots, and leaps off of platforms. I never enjoyed seeing guys stab each other. I also loved ECWs backstage promos. I get what Cornette is saying. But I see ECW as more than just blood and guts.
I feel the same. I loved all the great athletes they had and how creative they would get in their matches. The hard chair shots and the forehead carving was not my thing.
The ring bell was always my favorite foreign object. It always seemed so logical and dirty. Never once questioned why it was there. Unlike hhh and his sledgehammer
ECW really didn't have guys pulling stuff out from under the ring. Most.of the time it would be stuff in the environment or guys would bring stuff to the ring with them to the ring like New Jack.
One of the most dangerous finishers that I've ever seen was Pete Williams version of a piledriver where he has the guy and do a front flip into a piledriver
Once you realise the guy taking the move is basically just doing a backflip (putting their hands on Petays legs to soften the landing & so they can ensure a proper landing rather than hitting the mat perfectly with their hands) it looses some of it's impact. Petay used to protect the move though, it was booked like an old school DDT where it could cripple the other guy and 9/10 times would win the match if he hit it.
Wow, that was a weird moment. Hearing Jim Cornette say the name of my old YMCA camp councilor was unexpected. I hadn't realize Bobby Blaze wrestled for Cornette. In hindsight it should have been obvious since he was my councilor in Kentucky. He was a great guy and all the kids loved him. The councilors at the Y did themed weeks and each person got to pick their week. Bobby's was always the best because it was wrestling week. We'd watch wrestlemania and he'd have a ring set up in the Gym and have friends put on a show for us.
Light tubes and barbed wire are totally insane. Look at what happened to Nick Gage. Dude died in the medical helicopter then came back to life a short time later. I dont wanna see that kinda crap in wrestling.
The first five TLC's (yes I'm including the Triangle) made sense just Sabu, the Dudleyz and Public Enemy made the table match make sense because the drama was trying to put someone through a table.
I think the first three were easily the best (counting the triangle as well). They did a great job in building up each team's weapon of choice along with building off of the precursor matches like No Mercy Ladder and Royal Rumble Table. They were car crashes, but were great ones. The next two started getting into the law of diminishing returns. They were on TV which was dumb and by the time Raw had its one with Kane winning, they only had half the established teams. I also think they were getting into too many too soon. They were good though. Thankfully they shelved it for a while so it was kind of fresh for Edge vs. Flair, although again that was on TV again. When TLC became an annual event it kind of lost its magic similar to Hell in a Cell especially since writing has gotten lazy and there haven't been many serious grudges going into the matches. There were still some great matches like Hardy vs. Punk and others but fans care less and less.
I agree with what Jim says about these wrestlers ruining their bodies. I used love watching Sabu do an insane spot that would do more damage to him than it would to anyone on the receiving end. But I saw him in some matches on Impact recently and its all a bit sad now. He can barely move, I feel sorry for more than anything. Holy crap, I just looked him up, he's only 54 he looks terrible.
Same. Now I don’t completely agree with cornette (the first 3 tlc matches were very awesome!) since i do love the hardcore matches of the wwf…but at the same time i kinda c his point.
I don’t see how anyone can talk shot about Jim. He’s so passionate and knowledable about wrestling. I’m sure deep down he’s hurt seeing it in the state it’s in.
I suppose I'm just a messed up individual but I enjoy watching Deathmatch/Hardcore/Garbage wrestling. CZW and FMW were the only promotions I watched for the last few years I was actively watching wrestling. Now my wrestling intake are these podcasts from Jim and occasionally watching some matches from the 80s. One thing tho, I don't just want guys using weapons with no athleticism to it.
To answer why the Tables and Chairs were added to the Ladder match it was because using chairs was part of Edge & Christians ginmick at the time, tables was The Dudleys gimmick and Ladders were for The Hardy Boys, hence; Tables Ladders and Chairs match.
Thank you for putting it into words! I remember even back when I was a grade school aged child thinking it was kinda dumb when wrestlers would pull objects out from under the ring that would realistically have no business being stashed down there. You know what was all the rage in mainstream promotions for the longest time? Kendo sticks. And I remember being in like 2nd or 3rd grade sitting there thinking "Wait, why was that under the ring? Who put that there?" If you're pushing the limits of grade school aged children's willful suspension of disbelieve, you might not be telling the story the right way.
Well the TLC came about because the dudleys, Hardy’s and edge and Christian were the top tag teams in wwf and were all feuding. Hardy’s knowin for high flying with ladders, dudleys known for puttin people through tables, and E&C were slapping mofos with chairs. That’s how TLC originally started so the TLC matches that involved those 3 teams made sense. Now going forward, they really started to over do em
I agree with him for the most part. Death matches are ridiculous, but the occasional chair/table/trash can is ok when used right. Every other week or every PPV, no. But like he said with the fire extinguisher, use weapons sparingly. if you have a long-term feud (like 6+ months), take it to the next level and cap it off with a stipulated final match. Give them a last man standing match and let them brawl to end the feud. But don't make it a "garbage match" as Jim would put it. Don't blow the storytelling aspect at the last minute. Make every shot mean something and use what would be under the ring or even backstage. A table? A TV monitor? Fine. But no one is bringing a weed whacker on the road...
I’d love to selfishly see Jim run a Memphis/Nashville/Louisville/Lexington/Evansville style territory to see what he could do in today’s age and I could go to the shows.
Jim follows the First Commandment of Pro Wrestling..........it's easier to talk them into the arena than to sway them into the arena with only the matches.
Yeah he is right that Deathmatch shit is truly disturbing as well, I don’t know how some people have survived some of those matches it looks like just downright assault…
Here in the 15th round of this legendary bout, we have iron mike Tyson vs Frank Bruno for the international pugilistic championship cumberbund title, due to a judges tie there bringing in the tables and yes they set them on fire..
the canadian destroyer. uncontrollable piledriver after clearly working together to make the move work. id say the burning hammer but that isn’t as bad if you look at it in slow motion.
5 of my top 10 favorite wrestlers are from ECW, Taz, Benoit (I know and respect people thinking the scumbag thing), Raven, Steve Austin, Chris Candito, Eddie, Rey, Tajiri
Someone needs to inform Jim Cornette that his own promotion, was a precursors to ECW, the stuff Jim was doing in his own promotion was pushing the envelop in terms of what you could and should do in wrestling. I mean they re-created the Rodney King incident with reversed roles... the man had New Jack being New Jack before ECW... among many other things, you can't tell me either WWF or WCW were doing any of that stuff. It's easy to forget now but I remember clear as day, in the early 90s, if you thought about hardcore wrestling, you thought about Smokey Mountain, that didn't change until the latter half of the 90s.
This may be indirectly related to the answer but the Shaker Heights Spike performed by the Beverly Brothers was the most unsafe finisher I can think of.
ECW hardore brought me to watch Mick Folley vs Terry Funk in Japan, the finish well... No body won, the referee stoped the match because no one could continue. That was a real hardcore match and i think they did it twice. Foley pinned Funk in the rematch. After watching that match, i was done with hardcore because no body will ever top those 2 matches.
I grew up in NYC during the 1970's watching WWWF, Florida Championship Wrestling and NWA wrestling from the Olympic Auditorium in LA on TV and even at it's most outrageous (which was quite rare) never approached hardcore wrestling. Sorry but if a wrestler has to resort to hardcore BS in every match, then they suck as a wrestler!
@Brandi lord Abdullah the Butcher, The Sheik, Bruiser Brody, Dusty was a brawler not a wrestler, Lawler was a brawler not a wrestler, Dory Funk Sr had those crazy long Texas Death Matches. Texas pro wrestling in general tended to be very stiff and more about brawling.
I can see the appreciation in hyper violent wrestling, but I see what Jim Cornette is saying. Think about just playing a wrestling video game. The aesthetics and special match types are cool and everything, but the real longevity of the game comes from how real the wrestling feels and how accurate the product imitates life. Chocolate and vanilla y’all.
AEW: Omigawd the Hemorrhaging death 💀 stroke! Kick out at 2! 😳 Not the Terror apocalypse! Omigawd! Kick out at 2! 🤩 Prenatal dysfunction! Prenatal dysfunction! How did he kick out of prenatal dysfunction! Omigawd! 😱 Headless Crucifixion death device!!!!!! It’s over! No! No he kicked out! 😕🤔😴 It’s the mortifying cranium crunch! Have you ever!!? But wait! Oh he kicked out how is he even alive?????? 😡🤬 He’s setting up for the IRON MAIDEN ETERNAL RECTAL DISEMBODIED NIGHTMARE! He kicked out! Such strength and determination! 🙄 38 minutes later..... ITs the neutronic dismal decay device! 🤢🤮 1.....2......3! It’s over! 🤣🤣🤣
Or don't forget about the roll up for the 123 after all those finishers. Meaning that what I just got invested in just got shot the hell 🤬 for a damned roll up for the three count. When was the last time a roll up ever worked. That match still pisses me off but I can't remember for the life of me who was in it.
TLC actually made sense.
Dudley Boyz= Tables
Hardy Boys= Ladders
Edge and Christian= Chairs
(Edge and Christian had a finisher called Conchairto back in the day)
One of my favorite matches of the attitude era.
Shame they made it into a non-event by overbooking it ☹️
i remember eric bischoff in wwf "hot lesbian action"
@@sublime90 ....yea I was done by then.
The conchairto was way before edge and Christian I believe the first time I heard that term was Jim Ross on world championship wrestling I believe it was in the late 80sAnd what the conchairto consisted of two guys would both have chairs and smash the guy in between while he was still standing up a chair shot from both sides coming in at the same time 🇺🇸🤘☘️
i get what Jim is saying. like his logic. but TLC at WM17 was fucking gold!!
The TLC match made sense at first with the Hardy's Dudley's and Edge and Christian because of the storyline with it being all 3 groups signature weapons. Its been overdone now.
Well said
I always appreciated Raven in WWF bringing weapons down the ramp with him rather than finding the same sort of random crap under the ring.
On some New Jack type shit, classic ECDub natural born killas hits and out comes New Jack with a trash bin full of weapons 😅😅
@@jrodagormykid9063 umm you seemed to have missed the point of this video.
@@o2Monster_X nah I know how Corny feels about hardcore "garbage wrestling" and balcony dives, but what op said instantly reminded me of New Jack, who I am a fan of.
douglas byron Smotherman Except when he was Johnny Polo in WWF and Scotty Flamingo in WCW years before ECW
@douglas byron Smotherman raven was also an associate producer for raw before ever going to ecw, and had wrestled in wcw.. wrestled in the wwf.. Managed tag teams there as well and wrestled for a few territories like Continental
Cornette actually cares about the wrestlers and doesn’t want to see them do stupid shit that will shorten and/or end their careers.
William Jones well, it’s that but it’s about too much swerving leads to burnout. When you are running at 100% every episode, you can only go up or people tune out, which leads to unnecessary injuries and accidents trying to outdo yourself.
And more importantly shorten and/or end their lives.
@@wrayday7149 you're probably not wrong . Conry also seems like the type to reply more on the writing/story than the dangerous scenarios which we saw alot in ECW. But yes it's all dangerous when these people are doing this shit 300+ days a year with no rest.
Except twinkletoes mcfingerbang. He should be booked in exclusively hardcore matches!
Yep. Because he's old so school, it would seem like he'd be exactly the opposite and want the guys to be tough by doing stupid shit. The new guys could learn a lot from him in that regard.
"Hey I need some help assembling the ring, Hand me those 3 Kendo sticks that I'll just leave under here right near the front."
Truth Hurts I understand the tools used to work on the ring being under there chairs and even backup monitors or something like that. Some of these weapons I never understood why they would be there. I’m not complaining though I do admittedly enjoy some hardcore stuff.
“Hey, could you take that ‘ROAD CLOSED’ sign from out of the parking lot & slide it under the ring?” 🤦🏽♂️
creoleDJ right or like a Barbed wire baseball bat is actually needed under the ring...I think crazy weapons like that should be brought by the wrestlers.
Jnw boss yeah like how Raven had a shopping trolly full of weapons that brought out.
We need at LEAST 15 more chairs to take up space under this ring, as well
Even the Hollywood stuntmen don't go through real glass.
Candy glass if I recall. Maybe wrestling does that too? I hear if you ever need to dive through a window, wrap your neck in a T-shirt. Assuming you can't just kick out the window and climb out.
Sugar glass
I remember when Kurt Amgle tried to throw Shane o mac through glass one time but he didn't go through and landed on his neck. Looked horrible😱
Well said. 👏🏾👏🏾
@Alan Smithee I dont watch japanese wrestling at all but just from the comment i felt like I knew who you were talking about. Googled it real quick and yup, its the guy i thought you were talking about. Guy is a complete fucking dipshit. Ive seen a few deathmatches of his and its garbage. I dont think he know show to do a single wrestling move.
Hahaha “why would there be a road sign under the ring?”
LMAO!!!!!!!!! So true!!! LOL!
To alert the “cos play, jazz hands play wrestlers” JC’s words to make a u turn at the ring & go back to the locker room
Dutch Mantell "I liked it better when the marks were in the seats"
Mantell is one of the most underrated wise asses ever
@Shaw Powers Wow, "mark"? You must be in the business with your vast knowledge of wrestling terms! The "shut up" part just shows you're an asshole.
@Shaw Powers get fucked bigot.
@Shaw Powers Your mom is gonna ground you from the internet again if she sees you swearing, child. Let the adults talk now. Shoo.
is no one gonna smarten these marks up??
“Don’t even get me started on the f*ing thumb tacks” 😂😂😂
Road Warriors always pinned people after the Doomsday Device. You want your finisher to be The End (as Jake would say.)
It is called protecting the finish. Some people do it now. Some don't. Those that don't are the ones that do not deserve the respect to sell their finish.
Jason Diend True! as much as Jim dislikes Kenny Olivier, he always protected his finisher back in NJPW so credit where credit is due
The ONLY finishers that are protected now are the rko and the F5, that’s it.
@@KayBearYT omega
Owen Korando I know it's Kenny Omega but Jim calls him Kenny Olivier so I said that just because of that.
Cornette and hardcore wrestling should settle their rivalry in a hardcore match.
Yes
Cornette's would beat the fuck out of hardcore wrestling
Why did Cornett ever have that scaffold match where he broke his ankle?
@@hectorrico8661 Used sparingly, hardcore matches can be a useful tool to highlight particular nasty feuds between wrestlers....used every day and stupidly, they lose their impact and become pointless.
Oh yeah BBB, Mick Foley even pointed that out in his first book. He said you had to build up to a "No holds barred falls count anywhere match. Nowadays called 'hardcore matches'." Lmao
In the hood ol days of pro wrestling the fans brought in & believed. My great grandmother went to her grave hating Rick Flair & the Horsemen cause of the things they did to Dusty
some people still believe theres always 2 types of people theres those that can watch wrestling knowing that its scripted and fake and still enjoy it and could care less and then theres are those that speak out against it who arent really into it anymore so everyone is stupid for liking it i think wrestling can still always exist and be magic all its gotta take is for someone to come along who understands the history
@@Faygo33 spot on
Hardcore wrestling should follow the rules of Christmas. It's special because it happens for a few days in a year, but if it happens every day, it's no longer special.
exactly. If everything is hardcore, then nothing is hardcore.
@Nero you do realize people don’t just celebrate Christmas on Christmas Day, right? Christmas is usually a three week long celebration.
I like a lot of hardcore wrestling, but there is a fine line between what's entertaining, and what's overkill. Light tubes, weed wackers, and staple guns have no place in wrestling.
I remember things like scaffold matches and I remember stupid things that they do to this day like going up on roofs and jumping off of them.
Lots of the shit they do makes me wonder if a lot of the guys who do that crazy shit, if their life span will be cut by a few years.
@@skelington50 I'm really not a fan of scaffold matches due to them seeming overly risky while limiting what wrestlers can do a lot. Did you ever see the Dustin Rhodes vs. Black Top Bully match from Uncensored '95? That was a whole new level of stupid (I'll admit it was kind of entertaining because of that but I don't think it was supposed to be a comedy match).
Hey now the staple gun fit nice and snug inside New Jacks garbage can full of chaos
420 jrzl 906 that was Jack’s gimmick tho, he never claimed to be this graceful worker 😂😂 just a brotha wit a can of chaos and a can of whoop ass
Yes they do. You're just a pussy.
Ive always assumed the kayfabe of hardcore weapons under the ring was that the wrestlers knew they were in a hardcore match that night so they put the weapons there themselves. In Mick Foleys street fight with Triple H he had his tacks hidden in the steps and his bat in the time keepers area implying he showed up early and hid them.
thats true.
I was thinking that. I can see Jim's point about how it can be ridiculous when there's tons of random things under the ring admittedly.
I will say that with HHH it did at least make sense that the ring crew would keep a sledge hammer under the ring with their tools
Like Eric Bischoff using the shifter (or adjustable wrench depending where in the world you are) in WCW, after he was "on" the ring crew setting the ring up.
@@donkiddick966 Yeah, the good old blue-handled wrench that Nash later used to beat The Giant with.
Love hearing Jim's take on wrestling. I have to agree the young guys now are just stuntmen
*BAD stuntmen
ECW used occasional barbwire and thumbtacks, but never panes of glass. Hardcore matches weren't often used on ECW TV. The Funk v Sabu Born to be Wired and Sandman v Sabu Stairway to Hell didn't get on television. ECW TV was great!
THISSS!!!! IS Ring Psychology 101, 201, 308 and more!
Cornette is a pro wrestling GENIUS! This is the core of pro wrestling itself.
I remember watching Mid-South and thinking doing a move off the top rope would kill someone. The all the sudden , it was like nothing.
I remember the first time i saw a superplex live
Super destroyer did it, and for the time it looked so awesome and dangerous
Now, its just another move
Jim Cornette is a national treasure. We have to protect him at all costs
Pro wrestling's answer to George Carlin
Absolutely - Cornette's mind is one of the greatest in wrestling. Just look at his collection of wrestling history. The guy is like a wrestling version of an astrophysics professor.
@@jimreily7538 for sure, but being a wrestling mastermind is like being a barbie collection mastermind...nice..but not really important.
Jim Cornette is the most interesting man in the pro wrestling business
He doesn't always watch wrestling, but when he does he's gonna shoot on it.
Damn right 🤞
He's the biggest piece of shit
@@jamesgentry13 He's fuckin awesome!!!!! I've got friends who listen to ALL his UA-cam shit that aren't even wrestling fans (or haven't been since they were fuckin 8 like most people). I don't agree with his politics, but he's good people in my book.
C W it kinda was actually
I watched the Vice documentary on the CZW Tournament of Death (which I believe is still on UA-cam). I was aghast at what those guys would do to each other. Regular pro wrestling is hard enough on the body as it is, yet these guys were doing the barbed wire bats, fluorescent tubes, throwing through glass, breaking cinder blocks on top of their opponent's head with a sledgehammer etc. Heck, they even had these round discs with tacks or nails on one side, and they'd hammer them into each others heads. I watched them pull one out of someone's head afterwards with a pair of pliers, and it looked like it was about to rip the skin off his skull. Given that the owner is compelled to live and run his business out of his parents' house, one can only guess how little the wrestlers make for mutilating their bodies. And most seem to be very poor, so I bet they don't have health insurance. Dan Severn brought up a good point in a recent interview when he said fans at hardcore events will scream the brand name, and not the wrestlers' names, because they don't care about who's in the ring; they just want the violence. Watch the CZW documentary and you will hear the rabid fans screaming "CZW! CZW!!!" The wrestlers mean nothing. I'm curious how many from that Tournament of Death are going to wind up crippled or dead by the time they're thirty.
The only person that I can think of that has done a TOD and actually gone on to bigger and better things in their career is Moxley. I’m normally OK with a touch of hardcore on the rare occasion but I don’t understand how people can enjoy stuff like TOD.
@@treytreytrey I keep forgetting that Moxley/Ambrose was from there, I can only think of Thumbtack Jack as a recognizable name and I've never seen even one of his matches. I've never even seen a CZW match because it just looked way too gruesome to me. I can only think of that guy with the whole syringes shoved in his mouth and face and nothing else...
I could listen to Jim all day long!! Top bloke 👍🏼
Hardcore wrestling is something you can use to end a great fued or when it fits with someone's gimmick. But you can't have profitable,long lasting promotion and keep your wrestler in good shape if that's all you do. You are also hurting yourself because people get used to it and it loses it's magic. If somebody goes trough a table 5x a year is special. If people get smashed trough the table 15x a night over and over again it gets stale .
i agree with you on that theres a lot of promotions that do hardcore wrestling every single night and they have their niche audience but then again it can get boring really quick to watch it every single night but if you do it every now and then like to end a big fued then i think it works well like people say too much of anything isnt any good
@@Faygo33 always keep them asking for more
@@armin38822 exactly man then when they do have some hardcore matches whichever promotion it is then it's awesome
The thing that always confused me about hardcore matches is that this week, champion Joe Face loses his title in a standard match because Jack Heel smashes him with a chair when the ref is distracted. Then, next week, Joe and Jack hit each other 100s of times with a chair in a no DQ exchange and they kick out over and over again until Joe Face hits a standard DDT dead center in the ring, and wins the title back that way.
It sort of ruined the impact of the chair shot as a finish for me, for the longest time.
I know what you mean. You could argue that being hit by a chair in a normal match is different if it's a sneak attack due to it not being expected but that doesn't seem like it should justify it going from match ending to having as much impact as a clothesline or body slam.
It’s almost as if it makes it harder to suspend disbelief
“Why is there a cookie sheet under a wrestling ring?”
Because Debra baked Stone Cold cookies and they forgot the cookie sheet.
It's been there ever since...
How else is Mick Foley gonna put cookies in DDP's bed?
Betty Crocker used to bring a cookie sheet to the ring.
You’ve shit the bed
Because Hornswoggle was having a party and needed some snacks.
I like Jim's old school view on wrestling
ECW was great but it was the 90's
Philadelphia right place.
90's right time
Ya I always thought ecw wouldn't work before or after its time
I remember being a kid and wanting to take a greyhound to philly to watch a taping of ecw. I was 13 and lived in South Carolina. It was that good.
@@BigHitbox9746 Bingo, it was lightning in a bottle.
ECW to me was like punk. It was mostly terrible with the odd awesome bit in there somewhere, but it needed to happen to shake things up a bit.
ECW is metal as fuck! Slayer, Metallica, Motorhead, Pantera, White Zombie. I feel like of you're not into Punk Rock, Heavy Metal, or Gangsta Rap... Then you won't like ECW. It's a show for the gritty badass punk rockers
What a coincidence. I'm literally watching the Rise and Fall of ECW DVD right now.
That DVD was OK, but I prefer Hardcore Forever. As it went into more detail and had guys like Shane Douglas on the Documentary. Rise and Fall was OK, but not having Douglas in there when he was the first champion makes little to no sense.
That was a really good dvd.
No Raven or Impact Players hurt as well
Literally every question that gets asked of corny:
Well, ahhhhh
I'd liken it to Quentin Tarantino.
Question asked
QT: "Oh, wow...."
mmm HMMM
13:42, “Why is there a cookie sheet under the ring?” 😂😂😂🍪🍪🍪 Maybe it was for that bakery fight Russo wanted!
I've watched this several times and still wish Jim would eventually release a tell-all about his "shopping lists" and how gimmicked objects were put together and used and other such secrets of the industry. It's fascinating to get his take of this stuff.
Craziest thing I have seen in a match involving weapons/the surroundings was when Angle tried throwing Shane McMahon through the glass and it didnt break which made him fall onto his neck on the concrete...then Shane being the badass he is whispered "throw me again" and then it broke. Cant remember if it broke on the 2nd or 3rd try but my god it looked awesome and certified Shanes toughness.
I don't believe he whispered - from my recollection of what Shane said, he told Angle in pretty colourful language to throw him through the glass!! Two suplexes failed, so Angle just hurled him forwards through the panel.
@@MikeyMUnited yes, on the way back. He threw him through two panes of glass, one from the front which took two tries, and then back through the pane next to it. He hurled him through that one after it didn't break on two suplexes.
Somehow I wish there where more Jim´s today. He brings it like a) he wants to protect the athletes and b) won´t do anything without a very good reason with a broader few of the whole picture - and not just for the effect of the stunt only.
Reporter:what's ypur current take on this era of wrestling
Jim: well it all started in Smoky Mountain Wrestling
One of the true Geniuses a professional wrestling
I agree with conry hardcore matches should be more of a natural thing to ware wrestlers use stuff that's already there and it's always a wrestler bringing out props in a shopping cart, props getting set up around the ring with barbed wire before the match. Now it's a over done thing with people doing the same type of hardcore style of match.
marquise booker True and also the dumb "hardcore" gimmick ppvs. Hell in a cell should be used to end a blood feud, similar with extreme rules but these days most of the feuds start with such gimmicks because the storyline started right before the gimmick ppv. how back ward it is where a feud starts with hell in a cell and ends with a singles normal match on a weekly show. makes no sense
Well I'm pretty sure if anything is allowed in a hardcore match wrestlers would try to bring their own weapons so they can, y'know, win the fucking match.
That's why I like how Rhino and Raven would bring a shopping cart full of weapons made more sense or how New Jack would bring a trash can full of weapons made more sense than finding all that shit under the ring.
i love when cornette criticizes hardcore wrestling. can't believe they're still doing it. did you see that skateboard spot? jelly did a little hairflip and then stood there hunched over, waiting for so long to get some tacks in his back
As a kid growing up I learned that wrestlers would hid things under the ring before the first match of the night because I remember when I was just 7yrs old or so at the time that Jake the snake Roberts was banned from having his Cobra at ringside so he had it under the ring so he didn't walk to the ring with it and I believe that was the night that Jake had the Cobra bite Macho Man Randy Savage if I'm not mistaking.
Jim and brian, keep up the great work!!!👍
I was watching old mid90’s WWE and in a match someone sprayed a type C fire extinguisher... which is a dry chem a.k.a an irritant... long cut away and someone realized the mistake and ran the correct extinguisher out to the guy. Meanwhile the front row is choking.
As a fan of ECW, I was never a fan of death matches. And I thought they were different from a typical blood and guts promotion. I enjoyed the athletic high impact style of RVD and Sabu. Essentially I enjoyed table spots, and leaps off of platforms. I never enjoyed seeing guys stab each other. I also loved ECWs backstage promos. I get what Cornette is saying. But I see ECW as more than just blood and guts.
I feel the same. I loved all the great athletes they had and how creative they would get in their matches. The hard chair shots and the forehead carving was not my thing.
I love Jim talking about the psychology of Wrestling. Perfect clip
The ring bell was always my favorite foreign object. It always seemed so logical and dirty. Never once questioned why it was there. Unlike hhh and his sledgehammer
Passed over much like Fredo?
THAT'S GOLD. PURE GOLD. Someone give that man a job.
What did he mean by that? Lol im curious. Cause my name is Fredo n ive sent in a couple questions n don't think hes ever answered lol.
@@makinamuerte7590 Fredo from The Godfather
'Currently dead..'
Well done Jim haha that is pure gold..
Yeah, I liked that - as if death is a temporary condition.
ECW really didn't have guys pulling stuff out from under the ring. Most.of the time it would be stuff in the environment or guys would bring stuff to the ring with them to the ring like New Jack.
One of the most dangerous finishers that I've ever seen was Pete Williams version of a piledriver where he has the guy and do a front flip into a piledriver
Canadian Destroyer. It was a spectacle when Petey was the only one doing it. Now you see it 3x times a match
The Canadian Destroyer was a thing of beauty. I hated Team Canada in TNA but I loved it when he hit that move.
Once you realise the guy taking the move is basically just doing a backflip (putting their hands on Petays legs to soften the landing & so they can ensure a proper landing rather than hitting the mat perfectly with their hands) it looses some of it's impact.
Petay used to protect the move though, it was booked like an old school DDT where it could cripple the other guy and 9/10 times would win the match if he hit it.
Wow, that was a weird moment. Hearing Jim Cornette say the name of my old YMCA camp councilor was unexpected. I hadn't realize Bobby Blaze wrestled for Cornette. In hindsight it should have been obvious since he was my councilor in Kentucky.
He was a great guy and all the kids loved him. The councilors at the Y did themed weeks and each person got to pick their week. Bobby's was always the best because it was wrestling week. We'd watch wrestlemania and he'd have a ring set up in the Gym and have friends put on a show for us.
Cool counselor.
Cornette is one of the best personalities in wrestling.
Listening to Cornette made me change my perception on Hardcore Wrestling
The Human Encyclopedia of Pro Wrestling - Jim Cornette................knowledge, experience, power!!!.....he is the best!
What should be under a ring?
I'm guessing not a big wooden board covered in mousetraps. Just a guess
guess you've never heard about ring rats...
Gravydog316 lmao
Light tubes and barbed wire are totally insane. Look at what happened to Nick Gage. Dude died in the medical helicopter then came back to life a short time later. I dont wanna see that kinda crap in wrestling.
Would like to see him react to CZW
he hates czw to death. he might hate czw more than he hates aew
The first five TLC's (yes I'm including the Triangle) made sense just Sabu, the Dudleyz and Public Enemy made the table match make sense because the drama was trying to put someone through a table.
I think the first three were easily the best (counting the triangle as well). They did a great job in building up each team's weapon of choice along with building off of the precursor matches like No Mercy Ladder and Royal Rumble Table. They were car crashes, but were great ones.
The next two started getting into the law of diminishing returns. They were on TV which was dumb and by the time Raw had its one with Kane winning, they only had half the established teams. I also think they were getting into too many too soon. They were good though.
Thankfully they shelved it for a while so it was kind of fresh for Edge vs. Flair, although again that was on TV again. When TLC became an annual event it kind of lost its magic similar to Hell in a Cell especially since writing has gotten lazy and there haven't been many serious grudges going into the matches. There were still some great matches like Hardy vs. Punk and others but fans care less and less.
I agree with what Jim says about these wrestlers ruining their bodies. I used love watching Sabu do an insane spot that would do more damage to him than it would to anyone on the receiving end. But I saw him in some matches on Impact recently and its all a bit sad now. He can barely move, I feel sorry for more than anything. Holy crap, I just looked him up, he's only 54 he looks terrible.
I’m not an avid wrestling fan, but this is a fun podcast
I always though Mick Foley got away with the barbed wire baseball bat since I could imagine him setting it up before since he was deranged enough.
Also he made you believe that it was a part of a fight not a stunt.
I loved the Hardcore title in the attitude era.
Same. Now I don’t completely agree with cornette (the first 3 tlc matches were very awesome!) since i do love the hardcore matches of the wwf…but at the same time i kinda c his point.
I don’t see how anyone can talk shot about Jim. He’s so passionate and knowledable about wrestling. I’m sure deep down he’s hurt seeing it in the state it’s in.
I love how Jimmy C cusses like a sailor. It makes me feel right at home with the way I use curse words too!
02:30 I remember seeing my first wrestling match... jake vs taker WM.... I was 4...
I suppose I'm just a messed up individual but I enjoy watching Deathmatch/Hardcore/Garbage wrestling. CZW and FMW were the only promotions I watched for the last few years I was actively watching wrestling. Now my wrestling intake are these podcasts from Jim and occasionally watching some matches from the 80s. One thing tho, I don't just want guys using weapons with no athleticism to it.
Thanks to the Iron Sheik every time I hear "gimmick" I think crack cocaine.
@Corn Pop I hear you're a bad dude.
@Corn Pop as long as you're not lollygagging, you're good with me. 🤣
Ever see Axl Rotten’s Iron Sheik impression? “Maybe we smoke the gimmick? Kayfabe that!”
Tommy, use my sign!!! Dreamer crowns Raven with a Stop Sign!!!!!
To answer why the Tables and Chairs were added to the Ladder match it was because using chairs was part of Edge & Christians ginmick at the time, tables was The Dudleys gimmick and Ladders were for The Hardy Boys, hence; Tables Ladders and Chairs match.
But then the issue would be why did it become a reoccurring match type that later become a whole PPV.
Thank you for putting it into words! I remember even back when I was a grade school aged child thinking it was kinda dumb when wrestlers would pull objects out from under the ring that would realistically have no business being stashed down there. You know what was all the rage in mainstream promotions for the longest time? Kendo sticks. And I remember being in like 2nd or 3rd grade sitting there thinking "Wait, why was that under the ring? Who put that there?" If you're pushing the limits of grade school aged children's willful suspension of disbelieve, you might not be telling the story the right way.
lol what i love is that kendo sticks are hollow, so it's like hitting someone with a giant-ass drinking straw
I am not a hardcore wrestling.fan, but I loved the TLC matches with the Hardy Boys, Dudley Boys, and E&C.
Well the TLC came about because the dudleys, Hardy’s and edge and Christian were the top tag teams in wwf and were all feuding. Hardy’s knowin for high flying with ladders, dudleys known for puttin people through tables, and E&C were slapping mofos with chairs. That’s how TLC originally started so the TLC matches that involved those 3 teams made sense. Now going forward, they really started to over do em
I agree with him for the most part. Death matches are ridiculous, but the occasional chair/table/trash can is ok when used right. Every other week or every PPV, no. But like he said with the fire extinguisher, use weapons sparingly. if you have a long-term feud (like 6+ months), take it to the next level and cap it off with a stipulated final match. Give them a last man standing match and let them brawl to end the feud. But don't make it a "garbage match" as Jim would put it. Don't blow the storytelling aspect at the last minute. Make every shot mean something and use what would be under the ring or even backstage. A table? A TV monitor? Fine. But no one is bringing a weed whacker on the road...
you can use the excuse that one of the wrestlers PRE hid a bag of thumbtacks or whatever before the PPV started specifically to use in the match
Knew the video was great when the thumbnail got Disney's; "Herbie" in it, lol.
I’d love to selfishly see Jim run a Memphis/Nashville/Louisville/Lexington/Evansville style territory to see what he could do in today’s age and I could go to the shows.
Jim follows the First Commandment of Pro Wrestling..........it's easier to talk them into the arena than to sway them into the arena with only the matches.
SO TRUE! I got the NETWORK and was excited to rewatch ECW and I could barely finish a show.
Yeah he is right that Deathmatch shit is truly disturbing as well, I don’t know how some people have survived some of those matches it looks like just downright assault…
Here in the 15th round of this legendary bout, we have iron mike Tyson vs Frank Bruno for the international pugilistic championship cumberbund title, due to a judges tie there bringing in the tables and yes they set them on fire..
the canadian destroyer. uncontrollable piledriver after clearly working together to make the move work. id say the burning hammer but that isn’t as bad if you look at it in slow motion.
I wish he would've talked about why the hell would there be a kendo stick under the ring!
TLC came about because of the Dudleys table spot, the Hardys ladder spot, and Edge & Christians Con-Chair-to and their 3-way feud
Best goddamn tag team rivalry ever. Ahhhh yessss
At least that made some sense in context.
The rivalry that turned into a reoccurring match type that turned into a PPV...
Jim vs. Herbie the Love Bug at the ECW arena
ClassicJM85 G42! BINGO!
"It's f?ck!ng stupid" - Jim Cornette
I used to park my Volkswagen Beetle under the ring.
I had to move it to the public garage because the wrestlers kept using it as a weapon.
5 of my top 10 favorite wrestlers are from ECW, Taz, Benoit (I know and respect people thinking the scumbag thing), Raven, Steve Austin, Chris Candito, Eddie, Rey, Tajiri
8 of the top 20
"Whatever the fuck" should be a t-shirt.
5:25 "currently... dead"
💀
Someone needs to inform Jim Cornette that his own promotion, was a precursors to ECW, the stuff Jim was doing in his own promotion was pushing the envelop in terms of what you could and should do in wrestling.
I mean they re-created the Rodney King incident with reversed roles... the man had New Jack being New Jack before ECW... among many other things, you can't tell me either WWF or WCW were doing any of that stuff.
It's easy to forget now but I remember clear as day, in the early 90s, if you thought about hardcore wrestling, you thought about Smokey Mountain, that didn't change until the latter half of the 90s.
Exactly
This may be indirectly related to the answer but the Shaker Heights Spike performed by the Beverly Brothers was the most unsafe finisher I can think of.
I just looked that move up and I have to agree.
@@tempestfennac9687 Totally I'm wondering if any lawsuits were filed from that debacle of a finisher?!!
As a fan I just thought that a wrestler just hidden the chairs tables weapons when no one was watching before a show started.
ECW hardore brought me to watch Mick Folley vs Terry Funk in Japan, the finish well... No body won, the referee stoped the match because no one could continue. That was a real hardcore match and i think they did it twice. Foley pinned Funk in the rematch. After watching that match, i was done with hardcore because no body will ever top those 2 matches.
I grew up in NYC during the 1970's watching WWWF, Florida Championship Wrestling and NWA wrestling from the Olympic Auditorium in LA on TV and even at it's most outrageous (which was quite rare) never approached hardcore wrestling.
Sorry but if a wrestler has to resort to hardcore BS in every match, then they suck as a wrestler!
@Brandi lord Abdullah the Butcher, The Sheik, Bruiser Brody, Dusty was a brawler not a wrestler, Lawler was a brawler not a wrestler, Dory Funk Sr had those crazy long Texas Death Matches. Texas pro wrestling in general tended to be very stiff and more about brawling.
Finally someone fells how I feel about the table match
Whoever does these cartoon mockups are hilarious lol!
I can see the appreciation in hyper violent wrestling, but I see what Jim Cornette is saying. Think about just playing a wrestling video game. The aesthetics and special match types are cool and everything, but the real longevity of the game comes from how real the wrestling feels and how accurate the product imitates life. Chocolate and vanilla y’all.
Sacrificial lambs, Triple H, Sacrificial lambs!!! -Mick Foley on Wrestle Sketch
AEW:
Omigawd the Hemorrhaging death 💀 stroke!
Kick out at 2! 😳
Not the Terror apocalypse! Omigawd!
Kick out at 2! 🤩
Prenatal dysfunction! Prenatal dysfunction!
How did he kick out of prenatal dysfunction! Omigawd! 😱
Headless Crucifixion death device!!!!!! It’s over!
No! No he kicked out! 😕🤔😴
It’s the mortifying cranium crunch! Have you ever!!?
But wait! Oh he kicked out how is he even alive?????? 😡🤬
He’s setting up for the IRON MAIDEN ETERNAL RECTAL DISEMBODIED NIGHTMARE!
He kicked out! Such strength and determination! 🙄
38 minutes later.....
ITs the neutronic dismal decay device! 🤢🤮
1.....2......3! It’s over! 🤣🤣🤣
Or don't forget about the roll up for the 123 after all those finishers. Meaning that what I just got invested in just got shot the hell 🤬 for a damned roll up for the three count. When was the last time a roll up ever worked. That match still pisses me off but I can't remember for the life of me who was in it.
Yes
I've never heard of or seen the tool box, that is the most brilliant idea for the weapon under the ring trope
'Catch me, Bubba... catch me!’
*crash* *snap*
High pitched voice, 'You fell too fast, Jimmy! You fell too fast!'