@@RaytownProductions Yes, but that's what I use too. 🙂 I was just answering the question. 🙂 By the way, years ago I used DSEQ for this purpose, which uses not a single curve, but many more curves in the designated frequency range. This could also be a possible solution. I would like to try the Curves Equator next.
U can use the CLA , like "blackie" compressor as well. Just make sure u have a knob to change high frequency or "flat" which effects the full spectrum.
Have you ever tried to split the low end and the rest of the base to two tracks? Then you can again use a simple compressor with side chain on the bass lo track and can even process it differently and maybe add some harmonics. The trickier part is the to not run into phase issues when mixing both parts together again (but it’s doable).
That's an interesting idea! I do split my bass in most cases, but my biggest concern would be potentially running into phase issues. Something to try for next time :)
Great method, I've always used the compressor but never thought about just focusing on the lows surgically. I'll definitely try this out. Thanks for the info!
3:19 i didn’t know that with sidechaining you tell the channel: „HEY, listen to…“. that HEY part is important, it seems. HEY, another technical term learned.
I guess the magical plugin is called Track Spacer. :) The only difference as far as I understand itis that it‘s not side chainig a multiband compressor but a dynamic EQ that reacts exactly to the overlapping frequencies. I‘m using this not only for Kick and Bass but also for other tracks, like removing Bass from Keys or Guitars or vocals frequencies from other instruments.
I have tried track spacer this way a long time ago but didn't get great results. I'll have to revisit this and see how it compares. Thanks for sharing 🙏
@@RaytownProductions Yes, it doesn't do exactly the same. Since you are using a multi band compressor, you have precise control over the frequency band you want to duck while Track Spacer is only ducking the overlapping frequencies.
@@JM_2019 That's right! I think in some cases the critical bands that our ears detect can be "large" for sub frequencies, so having the ability to widen the ducking frequency band can help us PERCEIVE the differences between the kick and bass better when using this multiband compressor approach vs track spacer. Now I'm super curious haha! Need to experiment 🥼🧪
My favorite way to increase the transient delta between kick and bass is simply to use an enveloper, aka transient designer, on the kick. This way, I'm increasing the crest factor by adding to the kick's 0-20 ms duration attack, rather than forcing (by decreasing) the bass track to pump around it. No compressor is really fast enough for my liking and therefore I feel it almost always causes some pumping artifact.
I am still fairly new to this stuff so please forgive my noob question. Where exactly do I place the Sub Ninja to monitor this stuff? I have both the compressors on my Bass Bus currently and just picked up the SubNinja plugin to try this out with but I wasn't sure where to place it ? Bass Bus or Master Bus or as a fx channel etc.
I put it on the master bus so it can monitor the final output signal that is played back from your DAW. That way it can be used to look at other things like snare transients or how the bass and kick are interacting with each other. Hope that helps!
I absolutely am against side chain in any rock or metal. I use the three track bass method. When I seperate the bass into a low, mid, and full spectrum tracks, I don't have to duck anything out. not enough clarity in the kick? Pull down the low/sub track. Mids buried in the mix? Bring up the mid track. IMO, bass and kick are both have very specific jobs and I have managed to get them to work together rather than fighting each other. But, just how I do. Pretty cool technique other wise.
I think the problem here is that it is a static method, and the bass' low range remains constant throughout. In contrast, the solution shown in the video is dynamic, so when the kick drum is not playing, the bass brings the lows with full energy.
Interesting! While I mostly agree with what you are saying, it poses an issue if you want a lot of bass + a punchy kick. Then there has to be some give and take happening otherwise the sub energy will add and limit the songs overall loudness potential during mastering.
@@drewlehman227 I think if you are able to get the right timing to the release envelope, you won't perceive the low-end lacking energy and instead have a more constant/powerful bass.
Cool, but your title is weird. You are still using sidechain compression, just using a multi-band compressor instead of a broad, single-band compressor.
Totally agree. It's tricky to make a title short enough, descriptive enough, and enticing enough to get people to interact in a sea of less than helpful videos. I hope that the content made up for the crappy title.
Sorry, I am not convinced. For my taste the bass guitar finally lacks of emotional presence. I miss the glue and I assume there is a phase problem most probably caused by Multiband Compressor. Waves is not my favorite too, prefer others for mb jobs. Anyway, thanks for the discussion material, was worth it
What is YOUR favorite Kick/Bass mixing trick? Let me know below! 👇👇👇👇
C6 SC 🙂
@foxstudiohu that's what I'm talking about! 😂
@@RaytownProductions Yes, but that's what I use too. 🙂 I was just answering the question. 🙂 By the way, years ago I used DSEQ for this purpose, which uses not a single curve, but many more curves in the designated frequency range. This could also be a possible solution. I would like to try the Curves Equator next.
DUCK - has lookahead and we can isolate the frequency we are ducking, too.
Not to mention the ducking envelope is totally drawable.
I prefer a dynamic EQ for this..
U can use the CLA , like "blackie" compressor as well. Just make sure u have a knob to change high frequency or "flat" which effects the full spectrum.
Ive been doing that for a couple years now with a dynamic EQ.
Have you ever tried to split the low end and the rest of the base to two tracks? Then you can again use a simple compressor with side chain on the bass lo track and can even process it differently and maybe add some harmonics. The trickier part is the to not run into phase issues when mixing both parts together again (but it’s doable).
That's an interesting idea! I do split my bass in most cases, but my biggest concern would be potentially running into phase issues. Something to try for next time :)
I use soothe 2 for this exact process but I might try the multi band route and compare.. great video!
Thank you for the class!
This is a great description with easy to hear differences. Very, very well done. Thank you.
This was an awesome trick! Definitely adding this in my workflow! This is a great channel, and you are a great teacher! Thank you!
Great method, I've always used the compressor but never thought about just focusing on the lows surgically. I'll definitely try this out. Thanks for the info!
3:19 i didn’t know that with sidechaining you tell the channel: „HEY, listen to…“.
that HEY part is important, it seems. HEY, another technical term learned.
sometimes you need to get your channel's attention 🤣
I guess the magical plugin is called Track Spacer. :) The only difference as far as I understand itis that it‘s not side chainig a multiband compressor but a dynamic EQ that reacts exactly to the overlapping frequencies. I‘m using this not only for Kick and Bass but also for other tracks, like removing Bass from Keys or Guitars or vocals frequencies from other instruments.
I have tried track spacer this way a long time ago but didn't get great results. I'll have to revisit this and see how it compares. Thanks for sharing 🙏
@@RaytownProductions Yes, it doesn't do exactly the same. Since you are using a multi band compressor, you have precise control over the frequency band you want to duck while Track Spacer is only ducking the overlapping frequencies.
@@JM_2019 That's right! I think in some cases the critical bands that our ears detect can be "large" for sub frequencies, so having the ability to widen the ducking frequency band can help us PERCEIVE the differences between the kick and bass better when using this multiband compressor approach vs track spacer.
Now I'm super curious haha! Need to experiment 🥼🧪
I try a lil bit track spacer, if it sounds good i keep it if not i delete it, theres also the fuser plugin doing something similar
My favorite way to increase the transient delta between kick and bass is simply to use an enveloper, aka transient designer, on the kick. This way, I'm increasing the crest factor by adding to the kick's 0-20 ms duration attack, rather than forcing (by decreasing) the bass track to pump around it. No compressor is really fast enough for my liking and therefore I feel it almost always causes some pumping artifact.
I've been experimenting with this exact thing using Kick Ninja by the Him DSP. I might need to make a video on this...Great comment!
I am still fairly new to this stuff so please forgive my noob question. Where exactly do I place the Sub Ninja to monitor this stuff? I have both the compressors on my Bass Bus currently and just picked up the SubNinja plugin to try this out with but I wasn't sure where to place it ? Bass Bus or Master Bus or as a fx channel etc.
Master
I put it on the master bus so it can monitor the final output signal that is played back from your DAW. That way it can be used to look at other things like snare transients or how the bass and kick are interacting with each other. Hope that helps!
@@RaytownProductions thank you, yes that helps me a ton.
I absolutely am against side chain in any rock or metal. I use the three track bass method. When I seperate the bass into a low, mid, and full spectrum tracks, I don't have to duck anything out. not enough clarity in the kick? Pull down the low/sub track. Mids buried in the mix? Bring up the mid track. IMO, bass and kick are both have very specific jobs and I have managed to get them to work together rather than fighting each other. But, just how I do. Pretty cool technique other wise.
I think the problem here is that it is a static method, and the bass' low range remains constant throughout. In contrast, the solution shown in the video is dynamic, so when the kick drum is not playing, the bass brings the lows with full energy.
@@foxstudiohu I understand what you are saying, I do not have an issue with low-end lacking energy though.
@@drewlehman227 OK, I wish you a lot of successful mixing.
Interesting! While I mostly agree with what you are saying, it poses an issue if you want a lot of bass + a punchy kick. Then there has to be some give and take happening otherwise the sub energy will add and limit the songs overall loudness potential during mastering.
@@drewlehman227 I think if you are able to get the right timing to the release envelope, you won't perceive the low-end lacking energy and instead have a more constant/powerful bass.
Cool, but your title is weird. You are still using sidechain compression, just using a multi-band compressor instead of a broad, single-band compressor.
true, clickbait is not only wrong, but also weird.
Totally agree. It's tricky to make a title short enough, descriptive enough, and enticing enough to get people to interact in a sea of less than helpful videos. I hope that the content made up for the crappy title.
@@RaytownProductions yeah I get it man. I did get something out of it as I always do from your videos. So thanks.
Sorry, I am not convinced. For my taste the bass guitar finally lacks of emotional presence. I miss the glue and I assume there is a phase problem most probably caused by Multiband Compressor. Waves is not my favorite too, prefer others for mb jobs. Anyway, thanks for the discussion material, was worth it