PUTTING THIS AT THE TOP, THE MAIN ISSUE IS THERE IS ZERO COMPETENT PVE TESTERS OR ANYONE GIVING ADVICE TO BALANCE PVE (like come on arch its all i do lol) some people just refuse to admit the diluvian is unbalanced, the only people that say its fair are people abusing the broken loot or permafreshies. It should never have been added and have EVERYTHING. in a video on hellmode i merely suggested the diluvian was broken and yet the top comment was worrying about it ruining diluvian. it should have 1/10th the loot and bosses should be buffed to be on this new level. Also to debunk something, builds haven't gotten much stronger the rarity of stuff has just gotten lower. Give a godroll kits now day a take or two to grind when they look weeks of trading and grinding, serious give a max kit to a guy back in the day and he'd probably easily solo diluvian with counter. So basically the main issues are the diluvian (soloing) is basically build locked, it makes everything else pointless, and its caused so much rarity creep i seriously think they should void all relics to reset them. I love the pve community more than anyone, but the diluvian has killed the game and killed how players see it.
Yeah, the only way to fix the damage caused by this wld be to massively decrease the rates that they drop in the diluvian, or just rework the damn gamemode, it was cool when it dropped because it seemed to be hard but pve guys are just way too good at making builds. The gamemode should either be removed or completely reworked and overhauled. The developers should just void all relics and legendaries (that are not already soulbound) that drop in the diluvian. The problem is that the PvE community would be go insane, ngl the devs should js let the changes happen and let the PvE community cope or just put a server lockdown till it dies down. If a lockdown doesn't help then just ban the disruptive people from the discord server temporarily.
I disagree too be honest the point of dilkuvian was a challenge that people found how to beat. Not an impossible challenge that will never ever be beaten. I do agree that it’s overpowered loot wise but saying it’s easy after people have been doing it for 7 months is kinda stupid.
100% agree about reworking/removing diluvian. never liked hellmode, never liked diluvian, its just a stat check. HOWEVER, it needs to be *possible* to solo. there should be nothing locked to doing multiplayer in pve, ever.
The point about making drops actually make sense is actually something I thought about. There are so many good thematical matches between bosses and relics. Ferryman has a higher drop rate for Moonseye Tomes, because it makes sense as being a forgotten place in the Voidsea, similar to Moons Eyrie Duke has a higher drop rate for Sinner's Ashes, as he literally has stolen the Forge of Sin. Saramaed Hollows already has something similar with the amount of Pluripotent Alloys you get from the chests. Although they kind of suck and are almost never useful since you already get a ton of Alloyed weapons as drops anyway, it would be nice to see an increased drop rate of Smith's Alloys, or make it so that you can craft 5 Pluripotent Alloys into a Smith's Alloy. Maestro Evengarde could have an increased drop rate of Armorer Needles, because I feel like the needles fit the theme of Maestro's elegance. Kaido should honestly spawn an array of chests similar to Primadon with a different table of equipment/legendary drops, to serve as a complement to Primadon's drops, in case you want to have good gear but equipment talents that Primadon's gear doesn't have. Although I would prefer a Kaido rework first, this boss is ass. As for Layer 2, I think there should be a few more items that just fit the theme of the bosses. Chaser could have a unique outfit schematic as a drop, and maybe a few more unique pieces with talents that play around sacrificing your health/blood for a variety of effects. Ethiron should receive the same treatment. Chaser has more unique drops than Ethiron, which doesn't make sense to me. A few equipment pieces that fit into the bone-esque design would be cool, and maybe add a new Eternal-Gale-based Murmur you can obtain that involves beating Ethiron, signifying your resonance with the Eternal Gale. So much freedom with how you can make each boss compelling to kill, but all we have is a shitty wave rush with braindead builds reaping ten thousand relics a second, making trading virtually nonexistent, with only items having value being items that have a very specific method of acquiring, like Deepspindle and Wraithclaw.
i expected this to be pvp glazing but im pleasantly surprised edit: its really funny how ppl get mad at pve grinders for not liking ferryman nerfs and then turn back immediatly and get pressed as hell when people suggest voidwalker reworks or even just criticize the origin for making the experience of everyone else worse
if you arent fucking around and actually make your build the way it should be made you wouldnt ever have to run into voidwalkers, ts should never be an issue
4:09 Makes no sense dilluvian was hard 4 months ago nearly impossible to even solo wave 25 without a minmaxed build and you can’t just say that’s it’s easy when pve players have been experimenting for 7 + months that’s the whole point. Just like how PvP players find a new cheese build or combo every day.
Diluvian should have more penalty options such as being unable to stop the mechanism until you've passed 5 waves. Maybe even add more options such as a safe option that lets the player stop the mechanism at anytime but is rewarded with less loot. I agree with NobL that Diluvian is fairly easy even beyond wave 25, mainly because of the mobs that can be 2 tapped (Corrupt lionfish & Corrupt Megalodaunts/Nautilodaunts etc) are not making the waves any more difficult and instead just serves as an upper hand to gain your health back. You can pretty much keep spamming M1 with almost no concern to parrying or dodging any of the attacks.
I still remember the one blaring term that was being used when diluvian released - artifical difficulty. The dungeon was flawed from the very beginning.
Highkey wasn’t even thinking about it till now but nerfing diluvian is the move -Literally Faster than Floor 1 or 2 and drops 3x better loot and knowledge -Farm knowledge faster than primadon -Drops more relics than any boss easily -Surprised you didn’t mention it but Diluvian is free bells (literally takes 3 wave 25 Diluvian to get a power 1 a bell. -Easy and barely a risk of wiping (shi easier to die in Saramead than Diluvian) Good video though I subbed
We 100% need to split up all loot between bosses/dungeons so that people actually explore and do different stuff to get the things they need for their builds, I completely agree that condensing all the endgame content into one really poorly designed game mode is a terrible idea.
I think the main issue with dilluvian is that it gives everything, honestly what I would do is remove most of the relics from the loot pool and make dilluvian what you farm if you want guaranteed 3 star gear, and I would probably just leave like armorer's needles to make it fit in with it being what you farm for ironsingers. I think floor 2 is fine cause medallions are big for enchants and dye packets, give ferryman the best chance in the game for moonseye tomes, and he is still the best ring spot, buff the hell out of prima cause right now he really just aint worth doing, and for duke idrk I would make it so hes good for smith alloys or somethin, and then in the future new bosses and dungeons should have unique loot that make them worth running, a good example of this is saramed hollow with the flamethrower and klaris drip. As for hellmode, its been broken for the longest time, and even the few times I have done it ive gotten jack shit, and its really not worth running when you take in consideration of depths gankers. I feel like something thats worth pointing out though is at a certain point grind just kind of becomes bullshit. Items like bloodcrown should mean something, but the only barrier to getting them is luck, and thats kind of lame. its not hard to grind layer 2 1000 times to try to get a bloodcrown drop its just annoying. I wish there was stuff to earn in the game that took real effort, not just making a cheese build to trivialize it.
I think they should just make the other shit actually rewarding so that there's a reason to do shit other than diluvian and you can get important relics on pvp builds without having to go make an annoying dvm merchant slot
I cant believe it, the endgame pve that is solely based around spamming mobs and can only be done on certain builds is not healthy for a reaction based game, Impossible Surely adding more high skill bosses like Maestro and removing the pve slop that hellmode and diluvian would ruin the game 😱
I agree with you mostly but holy shit did they neef Ferry, i did 80+ ferry on 4x and didnt get a single idol while i got a sinner and 5 idols from like 10 dukes
ngl came into this video expecting the dumbest fucking argument imaginable like saying its making players not pvp, but you made pretty good points IMO they need to re distribute loot entirely, chests are spawning with like, 30 Items in them and people only take one, I think Loot should be more specific to the events they come from to encourage people to farm different events for different loot rather than everything having similar loot with a hand full of unique things in them. and even then I think Diluvian is fine loot wise but there's just a risk thats not as prevalent as should be.
genuinely i have not wiped a single time to anything other than thunder and ice mobs swarming me, depths gankers are basically nonexistent now because its just not worth it
The "0 skill" youre talking about is just what you don't see. Players such as SkipperGripper and KnowledgeableSardine have been playing this game for years and learned how to kill things. The highlights you see is the peak of their performance which is flawless. You don't see the hours of time they spent working towards that goal.
Yall just have no life and love grinding dellu is easy way to get relics accessories to make builds which is the main purpose of the game, If they nerf delluvian I'll quit the game I don't wanna grind for days to make 1 build
@@TheRealAsobuw I fear that if all you want to in game is click over and over again against static mobs, you don’t even actually like deepwoken, try Fortnite maybe
@@TheRealAsobuw u got a point, i understand dulivian is very efficient for PVP playerbase. maybe a statistical % of PVP vs AVG deepwoken player to determine bias in updates would be beneficial
i just hate pve in general with deepwoken ive done dilluvian twice and im never doing it again its braindead and mind numbing and forcing players to make a build for a single mode is dumb god forbid we have smart enemy placement or interesting enemies to fight instead they're answer to difficulty is 1 bazbillion enemies so you need to get a bazbillion dvm
The best solution to this: 1. Remove completely the monster damage scaling on all mantras except monster mantras and sightless beam. 2. Diluvian stays the same but you fight 1 monster at a time and nerf to the ground the loot.
PUTTING THIS AT THE TOP, THE MAIN ISSUE IS THERE IS ZERO COMPETENT PVE TESTERS OR ANYONE GIVING ADVICE TO BALANCE PVE (like come on arch its all i do lol)
some people just refuse to admit the diluvian is unbalanced, the only people that say its fair are people abusing the broken loot or permafreshies. It should never have been added and have EVERYTHING. in a video on hellmode i merely suggested the diluvian was broken and yet the top comment was worrying about it ruining diluvian. it should have 1/10th the loot and bosses should be buffed to be on this new level.
Also to debunk something, builds haven't gotten much stronger the rarity of stuff has just gotten lower. Give a godroll kits now day a take or two to grind when they look weeks of trading and grinding, serious give a max kit to a guy back in the day and he'd probably easily solo diluvian with counter. So basically the main issues are the diluvian (soloing) is basically build locked, it makes everything else pointless, and its caused so much rarity creep i seriously think they should void all relics to reset them. I love the pve community more than anyone, but the diluvian has killed the game and killed how players see it.
Yeah, the only way to fix the damage caused by this wld be to massively decrease the rates that they drop in the diluvian, or just rework the damn gamemode, it was cool when it dropped because it seemed to be hard but pve guys are just way too good at making builds. The gamemode should either be removed or completely reworked and overhauled. The developers should just void all relics and legendaries (that are not already soulbound) that drop in the diluvian. The problem is that the PvE community would be go insane, ngl the devs should js let the changes happen and let the PvE community cope or just put a server lockdown till it dies down. If a lockdown doesn't help then just ban the disruptive people from the discord server temporarily.
Void all relic? AFTER THE 4x CHEST WEEK!!! AH HELL NO!!! you gone mad skipper gripper.
easy fix, add wave 60 where there are 10 broodlord 🥱 and shift some of the wave 50 loot to wave 60 therefore not soloable 👍
I disagree too be honest the point of dilkuvian was a challenge that people found how to beat. Not an impossible challenge that will never ever be beaten. I do agree that it’s overpowered loot wise but saying it’s easy after people have been doing it for 7 months is kinda stupid.
Skipper goat 🍯🐐
might have to steal this idea champ, game is game
☠
@@DanVR1 make sure u credit me unc
100% agree about reworking/removing diluvian. never liked hellmode, never liked diluvian, its just a stat check. HOWEVER, it needs to be *possible* to solo. there should be nothing locked to doing multiplayer in pve, ever.
The point about making drops actually make sense is actually something I thought about. There are so many good thematical matches between bosses and relics.
Ferryman has a higher drop rate for Moonseye Tomes, because it makes sense as being a forgotten place in the Voidsea, similar to Moons Eyrie
Duke has a higher drop rate for Sinner's Ashes, as he literally has stolen the Forge of Sin.
Saramaed Hollows already has something similar with the amount of Pluripotent Alloys you get from the chests. Although they kind of suck and are almost never useful since you already get a ton of Alloyed weapons as drops anyway, it would be nice to see an increased drop rate of Smith's Alloys, or make it so that you can craft 5 Pluripotent Alloys into a Smith's Alloy.
Maestro Evengarde could have an increased drop rate of Armorer Needles, because I feel like the needles fit the theme of Maestro's elegance.
Kaido should honestly spawn an array of chests similar to Primadon with a different table of equipment/legendary drops, to serve as a complement to Primadon's drops, in case you want to have good gear but equipment talents that Primadon's gear doesn't have.
Although I would prefer a Kaido rework first, this boss is ass.
As for Layer 2, I think there should be a few more items that just fit the theme of the bosses. Chaser could have a unique outfit schematic as a drop, and maybe a few more unique pieces with talents that play around sacrificing your health/blood for a variety of effects.
Ethiron should receive the same treatment. Chaser has more unique drops than Ethiron, which doesn't make sense to me. A few equipment pieces that fit into the bone-esque design would be cool, and maybe add a new Eternal-Gale-based Murmur you can obtain that involves beating Ethiron, signifying your resonance with the Eternal Gale.
So much freedom with how you can make each boss compelling to kill, but all we have is a shitty wave rush with braindead builds reaping ten thousand relics a second, making trading virtually nonexistent, with only items having value being items that have a very specific method of acquiring, like Deepspindle and Wraithclaw.
Diluvian should honestly function like an actual rouge like dungeon randomly generated hazards and all
8:08 this one's sanity must've already crumbled
i expected this to be pvp glazing but im pleasantly surprised
edit: its really funny how ppl get mad at pve grinders for not liking ferryman nerfs and then turn back immediatly and get pressed as hell when people suggest voidwalker reworks or even just criticize the origin for making the experience of everyone else worse
if you arent fucking around and actually make your build the way it should be made you wouldnt ever have to run into voidwalkers, ts should never be an issue
Fax unc keep spitting
4:09 Makes no sense dilluvian was hard 4 months ago nearly impossible to even solo wave 25 without a minmaxed build and you can’t just say that’s it’s easy when pve players have been experimenting for 7 + months that’s the whole point. Just like how PvP players find a new cheese build or combo every day.
Diluvian should have more penalty options such as being unable to stop the mechanism until you've passed 5 waves. Maybe even add more options such as a safe option that lets the player stop the mechanism at anytime but is rewarded with less loot.
I agree with NobL that Diluvian is fairly easy even beyond wave 25, mainly because of the mobs that can be 2 tapped (Corrupt lionfish & Corrupt Megalodaunts/Nautilodaunts etc) are not making the waves any more difficult and instead just serves as an upper hand to gain your health back. You can pretty much keep spamming M1 with almost no concern to parrying or dodging any of the attacks.
😂😂😂😂😂ironic punches just made a vid on this being the best
Punchee is a dev and he prob can't just talk the truth about diluvian being a poison to the game
@@Haru-b8s hes a head mod, but u prob right
I still remember the one blaring term that was being used when diluvian released - artifical difficulty. The dungeon was flawed from the very beginning.
Please do not refer to ferryman "farmers" as pve players.
Don't refer to pve players as deep players 🙏
@@perperperper7554 get off my game
@@perperperper7554 true we play our own litle subgame but hey we have fun and thats what matters.
@@perperperper7554just say ur boosted bro
@@savageo6495 ????
The diluvian will be a lot harder if there were less weaker mobs you can use as health packs
Highkey wasn’t even thinking about it till now but nerfing diluvian is the move
-Literally Faster than Floor 1 or 2 and drops 3x better loot and knowledge
-Farm knowledge faster than primadon
-Drops more relics than any boss easily
-Surprised you didn’t mention it but Diluvian is free bells (literally takes 3 wave 25 Diluvian to get a power 1 a bell.
-Easy and barely a risk of wiping (shi easier to die in Saramead than Diluvian)
Good video though I subbed
nerfing it hardly has a point, everyone alr milked it dry
We 100% need to split up all loot between bosses/dungeons so that people actually explore and do different stuff to get the things they need for their builds, I completely agree that condensing all the endgame content into one really poorly designed game mode is a terrible idea.
I think the main issue with dilluvian is that it gives everything, honestly what I would do is remove most of the relics from the loot pool and make dilluvian what you farm if you want guaranteed 3 star gear, and I would probably just leave like armorer's needles to make it fit in with it being what you farm for ironsingers. I think floor 2 is fine cause medallions are big for enchants and dye packets, give ferryman the best chance in the game for moonseye tomes, and he is still the best ring spot, buff the hell out of prima cause right now he really just aint worth doing, and for duke idrk I would make it so hes good for smith alloys or somethin, and then in the future new bosses and dungeons should have unique loot that make them worth running, a good example of this is saramed hollow with the flamethrower and klaris drip. As for hellmode, its been broken for the longest time, and even the few times I have done it ive gotten jack shit, and its really not worth running when you take in consideration of depths gankers.
I feel like something thats worth pointing out though is at a certain point grind just kind of becomes bullshit. Items like bloodcrown should mean something, but the only barrier to getting them is luck, and thats kind of lame. its not hard to grind layer 2 1000 times to try to get a bloodcrown drop its just annoying. I wish there was stuff to earn in the game that took real effort, not just making a cheese build to trivialize it.
I think they should just make the other shit actually rewarding so that there's a reason to do shit other than diluvian and you can get important relics on pvp builds without having to go make an annoying dvm merchant slot
the coil in d2 was mid imo
If u got plat it was nuts I got a red border or 2 every run
goated season tho 🙏
Dilluvian not being random nor feeling like a rogue-like dungeon is a mistake
still waiting on diluivian to be turned into a boss rush with additional monsters 🙏
I cant believe it, the endgame pve that is solely based around spamming mobs and can only be done on certain builds is not healthy for a reaction based game, Impossible
Surely adding more high skill bosses like Maestro and removing the pve slop that hellmode and diluvian would ruin the game 😱
I agree with you mostly but holy shit did they neef Ferry, i did 80+ ferry on 4x and didnt get a single idol while i got a sinner and 5 idols from like 10 dukes
Nah beuh the shit that really ruins it is mods and devs abusing their powers and restoring people bc of biased and in general being dicks
Agendawoken
RIP red refigi, to hopefully be restored soon...
ngl came into this video expecting the dumbest fucking argument imaginable like saying its making players not pvp, but you made pretty good points
IMO they need to re distribute loot entirely, chests are spawning with like, 30 Items in them and people only take one, I think Loot should be more specific to the events they come from to encourage people to farm different events for different loot rather than everything having similar loot with a hand full of unique things in them.
and even then I think Diluvian is fine loot wise but there's just a risk thats not as prevalent as should be.
i still have hope that they will focus on the good part of deepwoken and save the game
Deepwoken was designed to be a PVE game
@@NerdWithBaconnope it was pvpve
deepwoken pve is absolutely horrible and requires 0 skill, the only thing keeping any decent player from playing a sandbox is thunder attuned mobs
genuinely i have not wiped a single time to anything other than thunder and ice mobs swarming me, depths gankers are basically nonexistent now because its just not worth it
@@Valniko_ it requires some skill and I depths gank still just cuz i like wiping ppl lawl
@@ShadyJed thats probably because youre dogshit at the game and boring as a person ngl
The "0 skill" youre talking about is just what you don't see. Players such as SkipperGripper and KnowledgeableSardine have been playing this game for years and learned how to kill things. The highlights you see is the peak of their performance which is flawless. You don't see the hours of time they spent working towards that goal.
@@NerdWithBaconstop making ts look "hard" or technical
Anyone can press 1 2 3 4 5 C
Anyone can run a pve build and be good
Yall just have no life and love grinding dellu is easy way to get relics accessories to make builds which is the main purpose of the game,
If they nerf delluvian I'll quit the game I don't wanna grind for days to make 1 build
@@TheRealAsobuw I fear that if all you want to in game is click over and over again against static mobs, you don’t even actually like deepwoken, try Fortnite maybe
@@nobLTheProphet i like pvp i dont like farming days for a mid kit and moonseye to fix my build
@@TheRealAsobuw u got a point, i understand dulivian is very efficient for PVP playerbase. maybe a statistical % of PVP vs AVG deepwoken player to determine bias in updates would be beneficial
Most based video I’ve heard today
Happy birthday nobl!
i love ur new pfp oat
i just hate pve in general with deepwoken ive done dilluvian twice and im never doing it again its braindead and mind numbing and forcing players to make a build for a single mode is dumb god forbid we have smart enemy placement or interesting enemies to fight instead they're answer to difficulty is 1 bazbillion enemies so you need to get a bazbillion dvm
people complain when they get loot and complain when they don’t unc what are yapping abt in this vid
Yappatron
dumb mexican
Buff hell mode, nerf diluvian
real
The best solution to this:
1. Remove completely the monster damage scaling on all mantras except monster mantras and sightless beam.
2. Diluvian stays the same but you fight 1 monster at a time and nerf to the ground the loot.
So you're suggesting that you take all the reason to do diluvian away, while also making it take exponentially longer?
@@destinyschosen4523 No, just add squibbo, enforcer, bonekeeper, bounder and the kyrsan. What do you suggest then?