Right! And people think in that amount of time they couldn't make stone jars and amazing statues, it's sad, ancient tech degrades them down to loin cloth wearing savages(uncharted x) they were amazing!
Trouble for Egypt was that military tech was frozen in time till came the Hyksos with horses, chariots, sickle swords & composite bows. The later said by some to originated in China.
Love the always multi-faceted analysis and thorough explanation of existing theories and evidence. I prefer understanding the question to being given an unsupportable answer - channels that respect the truth to the degree you do are rare treasures.
Kept giggling everytime I misheard mayonnaise and was waiting for this pic 12:46 to start rotoscoping. Great content as awlays. I bet your lectures would be epic without the disctractions of life surrounding a computer screen.
They mixed historical and mythological figures who lived millenia apart in that film: -The original Scorpion King was a pre-dynastic king of Upper Egypt (c 3200 b.c) -The Rock's character is an akkadian.People who appeared in Mesopotamia c 2300 b.c. -His main nemesis is Memnon,the same name of the Ethiopian prince of the trojan war (if he existed c 1250-1180 bc) -The city in the film is Gomorrah (early iron age if it existed)
Thank you for the video. This is much more nuanced than my ancient history professor made it out to be. Of course, considering that I took that course about 30 years ago, I guess that qualifies as ancient history now.
I was hesistent to click on the link to your vid but am very glad I did. The last two Egyptian histories I've read, both publlished in the last 20 years, had put to rest Memes and replaced him with Namer. Good to hear a in depth discussion on the evolution of our knowledge on this. Thank you very much for the vid.
@@crimsonterror5795 manasse (massa) and nimrod (orion) appear both in the bible. both represent a sinister type of destroyer, the same as appollos in the greek.
What a clear and scholarly exposition. BTW, I had the privilege of visiting the Petrie Museum, which made me think that a video explanation of the genre of "palettes" would be interesting.
I've been waiting for this one! What an excellent summary of the Narmer/Menes mystery. This is why I subscribe to your channel, and keep coming back for more.
Thank you for another fantastic video... I can't help but wonder what valuable information has been lost/destroyed over the many thousands of years, and what surprises still remain to be found !!
Menes , no relation to mayonnaise. Do you think it has a connection? What does it all mean 🤔 lol On a serious note. Wonderful video ! Learning more and more each post! Thanks!
What a fascinating and multifaceted history! Then again, all of Egyptian history can be described that way. Thank you for taking us through each step of the way through this mystery, Dr. Miano. You always do this so well! I'm leaving a like and comment for the Almighty Algorithm, in hopes it brings many more interested faces to your videos. 😊 ❤❤
@@rebanelson607 lol! Probably. I remember when UA-cam first was created before G bought it. After they took control the heavy commercialization kicked in to see it flooded with infomercials/misinformation/disinformation/bots etc.. From that point on the almighty "click" geared towards advertising revenue became the name of the game and meaningful discourse took a distant backseat. 🤷♂
Thank you Dr a very complete summary.Personally I would love to see a piece on the relationship or not between these first Egyptian kings and Sumer culture which also existed at the same time.I believe the intertwined necks of the mythical beast on the Narmer P is of Sumerian origin.
Something that I keep wondering about, I read somewhere that there was a mythological "First King of Egypt" called the Scorpion King which the Mummy and Scorpion King franchises are incredibly loosely based on. Was there really a "Scorpion King" in Egypt's early years? Or was the Scorpion King just mythological, like Theseus or Jason in ancient Greece?
What are the chances of finding further direct evidence of that time, taking into consideration the level of destruction and exhaustiveness of the sites? And another question, even knowing that kings by then already used two names, what is the chance of both being clearly associated in a contemporary inscription? I thought that the uses of the names were more or less alternative, serving to different symbolic functions.
Personally, I would think very high. Consider that the majority of ancient Egyptian sites are still untouched or even unknown, protected by sand and time.
Fantastic video as always Dr. Miano. Do you have plans for any videos about ancient American cultures? I am so curious about the evidence for contact between pre-Columbian central and south America, and it's hard to find videos or papers about that topic.
I have only heard about Menes a few times being the first pharao of Egypt. What about Narmer? Wasn't he considered the first pharao or do I confuse something here?
Thank you for this extremely informative video! It really helped me piece the puzzles together regarding early Egyptian history and answered many questions I had about that period. -From an Egyptian fan
Menes (Kushitic name) = Nemes=Narmer . Applying honorific transposition standing. I think! The three set of Kings list are actually similar. It's the same names written in different versions. Linguistically you'll find the root words that are the common link
I wonder if Menes is an attempt at saying "him who we have forgotten", rather than assigning a specific name. Kind of like the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier.
Amazing video. In a way the problem of the identification of Menes is the same as the founder of the Hittite Empire: all later documents refer the 1st king as Labarna,but according to archaeology and earlier texts that should be Hattusili I. Menes like Lanarna could well be a title.There is an exemple in Sumer itself: Sargon ("true king"). Strange that egyptian writer Manetho preserved the name Menes, but the babylonian Berossos who lived around the same time did not with Sargon the great. Funny , greeks sources put another king in the same role as Sargon :Ninus of Assyria,who rullled circa 2100 bc,conquered all Mesopotamia (before the founding of Babylon itself) and ruled for more than 50 years. It is really a shame both Aegyptiaca and Babyloniaca are lost.
Yes, I have been with this question, too, because of Egyptian chronology. Herodotus' flawed idea that Egypt is 11,340+ years old (which became the general Greek idea of Egyptian history) is anchored in king Menes as the first pharao of the united Egpyt. But I quickly concluded that the identity of Menes is not important for the problem of chronology, because the chronology does not change, whether Menes was real or not. Therefore, I decided to talk always of the "legendary" pharao Menes as the start of Egyptian chronology. Thank you for the video!
I would note that Herodotus like others seems to have related what was told to him - as opposed to formulating his own conclusions. Thus given how mythology played a prominent role in ancient societies it becomes less surprising that what is related can represent some verifiable fact - and some likely commonly believed myths. So a possible myth as to the origin of a civilization - especially when it is related millennia after that civilization has come into fruition - is always a possibility. Egyptians of the day believing ancient stories about their culture relate that to subsequent individuals who are recording what they see. Herodotus is considered _"the Father of History."_ Some of what he wrote has been validated by subsequent evidence. Some however is clearly mythological in nature - such as you alluded to. Thus one separates _"the chaff from the wheat"_ in discerning what might be accurate and what might be ancient lore accepted as fact by the people. As an aside. An old culture desirous of portraying itself as great might create for itself mythical figures in its past to justify said assumptions. Think of the Sumerians whose own creation stories are clearly mythological as were say the Hindu myths. In so much as the Egyptians of the Late Period had a revival in belief in their "Old Gods" meaning the Old Kingdom Pharaohs when Egypt was strong it makes sense if they later during the time of Herodotus - following this period of revival - relate stories making themselves appear as great.
@@varyolla435 Absolutely correct. Yet in case of the flawed chronology of the 11,340+ years, I would like to make responsible neither mythology nor the tendency to make oneself appear as great, but a mistake in calculation / estimation on behalf of the Greeks. The Egyptians themselves did not have an idea of the summed-up periods of reign of all of their pharaos, it was only with the Greeks asking questions when this problem came up, and as we can see in Herodotus, the sum was produced by an estimation over the total number of pharaos, beginning with the legendary Menes.
Maybe I'm the only one. But your UA-cam playbutton award is a distraction with the ceiling fan running. Love the videos otherwise. Also your travel videos remind me of when the Discovery and History Channel weren't the garbage they show today. Well done❤
Your intro says to subscribe "for regular videos on ancient history". But I think your videos are actually quite good. Definitely better than just "regular"
““Egypt” is known in the Hebrew Bible as Mitzraim or Mizraim; the ancestor of the Egyptians was Mizraim, son of Ham, son of Noah (Genesis 10:6). The nephew of the ancient Egyptian forefather, Mizraim, was a man named Nimrod. He was the first post-Flood city-organizer and despot (Genesis 10:8-12). Alexander Hislop’s book The Two Babylons explains that Nimrod and his wife, Semiramis, became the inspiration for the legends of the chief Egyptian gods Isis and Osiris.”
Is the muzak in the background intentional or did some neighbour turn up his radio? I honestly could not concentrate on the narrative and had to abandon it. Too bad.
Another possibility is the transposition of the consonants. The only reasonable certainty about ancient Egyptian pronunciation are the consonants. There is never certainty about vowel sounds. For Narmer the only confidence we have is that his name was constructed from Nr...Mr. If these signs are transposed the result is Mr...Nr. If we use the same vowel signs that gives us Mernar which, given the vowel sounds are far from certain, is not far from Meni. How such a transposition occurred could be due to changes in the language between the early dynastic and much later periods together with the fact that signs were not always written in the order they were to be read. Such transpositions are not rare, we sometimes do it ourselves. Hence we have Raneb to Nebra or Radjedef to Djedefre. I'm not advocating this possibility as a solution but I believe it's a concept to be considered.
Also Diodorus Siculus said that his name was called Menas d.s pg 157. On that same page it describes the reign of the first Gods as "A little less than 18,000 yrs and 5000 years down to the 118 Olympiad, or when the new Greek king was Ptolemy I. Then he says for most of this entire period this kingship was held by Native Kings up unto the conquering nations later.❤
Is it not possible that Narmer and Menes are the same name? Palindromic reversal is a common feature of African languages - perhaps Menes is a palindrome of Narmer in New Kingdom speak...the language changed and the name Narmer became harder to pronounce and so the syllables - either fully or partially - became reversed. This may have happened with other names too. Someone with the skills and the time needs to check.
I always thought the depiction on the namor stone was the sphinx not a people. What about the king statues that Herodotus saw on display and said that they were described as ‘gentlemen’? I thought that they kings before the first dynasty. I hope that I recalled that story correctly. And once again … great video
Could there be an etymological link between Menes and Minos? I ask this for several reasons: 1. We aren’t quite sure about the origins of Linear A (possible Egyptian link?) 2. Bronze Age Crete was, early on, a cultural satellite of Egypt and was heavily culturally influenced by Egyptian material culture. 3. Minos is largely believed to be a title (similar to pharaoh), and there are theories that Menes might also be a designation as well. This is just something that popped into my head as I was watching this. Figured I’d ask if there might be anything to this. 🤷
We don't know.Some scholars argued that the name appeared in Linear A (the language written by Cretans before greek invasion) as Mwi-no-ro-ja as a title for the king,but it is more speculation than fact.
Using your logic, the Biblical English Jesus name with the Spanish Jesus name with the Latin Iesus name and the Hebrew Yeshua HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON, just random coincidences about totally different words. They also sound like Giza. Also the words CHRIST, Christian, Christos, Christmas have nothing in common, they just use the same letters. Also Hercules and Heracles are two absolutely distinct words describing totally different people. Did you know that the German Gott is a different god than the Italian Deus? Because they don’t even sound the same.
@@DonHavjuan I just noticed your name is Juan. Totally unrelated to John, Ioan, Jonas, Ionas. They are simple words used for people that use the same letters and sound the same. I think no one was ever named after a saint in any language. I think everybody just invented similar sounding words to use as names for new borns out of pure necessity. Luke, Lucas, Lukas, Luciano, just names.
A Public Service Announcement. It is illegal (as far as I know in all countries) to deface or damage culture heritage sites and other historical relics. Recently in the Toshodaiji Temple, an eighth-century Buddhist site in Nara, Japan a teenage tourist carved his initial into a wooden column using his fingernails. It is a situation that has been happening worldwide at various historical sites with younger tourists (around 13 to 29 years of age) vandalizing the sites by leaving their initials. It takes time and a lot of money to repair the damage as skilled restoration professionals are needed to prevent any additional damage as normal cleaning or repairing can actually be worse than just leaving it vandalized. Meaning you will face at least a huge fine of thousands of dollars to pay for such professionals in addition to the fine for the actual vandalizing; you will up to the judge in most places be imprisoned for 3 to 7 years.
It is frustrating to me that while history has always existed, the way ancient people thought about it was less about the absolute details (as we value them) and more about the value of the story for what it represents. By the time of the New Kingdom it is very possible that Menes real name had been forgotten, but I suspect it is equally likely that what Menes represents was far more important to them than his real name or real life, and that there could have been a kind of deliberate forgetting in order to reinforce the concept of Menes, and that using his real name might be frowned upon as reducing the actions of a god to a mere human activity. The king, by then, was considered a god walking among men, and therefore Menes could be considered a first god in that sense, too sacred to be reduced to mere human names.
5:40 He must have done something special.. or... someone who descended from him uplifted him to focus glory on their own ancestry. Or... the priesthood found it useful... for power. Or something else...
If king menes somehow time traveled to current times and started reading batman comics I bet his favorite villain would be condiment king. Just how mayonnaise eventually separates, king menes also separated.... Separated from being king then separated from life by a Hippo. I wonder if he had a miracle whip, like really good whip for his slaves. If he only had a Chile named aoli...
yea ;)) the very first 4 dynasties are crazy interesting...thank u David! u know what is strange? Neithotep Mastaba seems to be a bit too advanced compared to the 1st dynasty tombs, u know what I mean right? The first kings had their burial in Um El Qaab as u mentioned, but they were just pits in the sand with a dune on top, no sign of mastaba on top ever, but then here it comes the first (probably) queen of Egypt that we know of having a mastaba and not even in Abydos but in Naqada,,, how do you make your mind about this? cause Graham also on his website has an article asking a similar question and to me, this is quite a topic! would u like to address this in the future? ;))
Neithotep was a very interesting woman! A nod to this fact persisted throughout Egyptian history although in later times it became extinct but in the early dynastic period the kingship did pass down the female line and not from father to son. So mother's of kings or kings to be were incredibly important. Neithotep seems to have been powerful enough to order mining and trading expeditions and there is a possibility, a strong possibility, that she served as Dr facto Pharaoh during the earlier years of her son Hor Aha after the death of the king. So what we may be seeing is a tomb not built solely for a very powerful woman but also a woman who acted as Pharaoh until her son became of age. In the early dynastic period this seems to have been much more acceptable, even normal, than it was in similar circumstances for Hatshepsut in the New Kingdom.
Menes walking in Memphis, walking with his feet ten feet off the Nile, Menes walking in Memphis, his story travels mile after mile. Is he Narmer or Aha, or a name we've yet to unveil? Menes walking in Memphis, his legend continues to sail.
It's always comforting to know (believe) that before Egypt there was something that we cannot yet name , that the Egyptians knew as we know them. Just thinking. ✌️
Well, I will be more frank about this ( menes ) because most of what we learned were sadly something that has nothing to do with the reality of his life and what he did and even the wars he lid . He was from an aristocratic family, His parents were not so easy going, they were cold and tough. Besides he was spoiled but in a sophisticated Way with his grandparents Morals, Traditions mixed with the modern adventurous taste. His unique test. After he was done with his education from the highest level of philosophers at that time. And also he was in love with geography and History of the previous real warriors And his Nanny was narrating to him their mysterious Legends. And he was fascinated by their Glorious Battles. Snd since he was a child he used to play with his sword, With other kids of his age till he grew Up and his sword grew up and got stronger. And he decided to collect his army and hit to different directions to open them and Free their Nations from dictators and the Humiliation and shame they were rolled with. And he successed to open most of the complicated empires and take all the kings and princes as hostages back home with him to protect them from themselves. And to teach them a new techniques to use later. And build new empires with dignity Care and loyalty to the one King 👑 Otherwise they were going to be destroyed from the unknown. And be burnt by their mislead. And he succeeded to put them on the beginning of the right Road. And they spent their rest of their Life, doing what he asked them to do. To survive and to lighten their Way by taking them from Darkness into the Bright light. And he died trying to make the World in the Best condition. And people who lived during that period were the luckiest ever. And they learnt alot from Him. In all scientific, educational، philosofic, religious and sexual parts of Life. How to be Humans. And showed them their Real Enemies. And in Luxor temple there's many writings about his legends. But the sexual part I can't mention here because it was something related to the ROYAL DNA and protecting what they mentioned as immortality ( theres 2 kinds of immortality, the one of the soul and spirit and one of the physical part ) That story just very few know it. I just narrated its summary. Because its so long and deep and real classified.
A-Ha was Mayonnaise. That explains it all! And this first King, was born 3000 years after the Pyramids of Giza were built by the Mustard Brothers, because it is written in Stone on a dung beetle scarab.🐞 Thanks for making the reading of all this graffiti, a clear Diamond.
I came into this video thinking, "Wasn't Menes another name for Narmer, and don't we have tons of evidence of Narmer?" and I mostly was right, but I'm thinking that when I learned about the Narmer palette in Art History, it may have just been assumed that Narmer was Menes, and they didn't want to get into technicalities with Art History students, since that wasn't the point of the class.
I'll bet they told King Mayo..."look, if you can unite Egypt we'll change your name to Narmer" ...the opposing army couldn't hold the Mayo, thus a united Egypt was born.
Menes is King Minos of Crete. He had the largest navy and Crete is not that far from Crete. Which is why Egyptian directions are backwards North South from a Cretan point of view.
What about Epaphos? In the Greek tragedy, Prometheus Bound, he is mentioned as destined to be the first king of Egypt. This is a prophecy delivered to Io, that she will wander to Egypt and there bear a son to Zeus named Epaphos. Now this is way too late for history (5th Century) but we can assume it's based on ancient myths. Io was half cow and myths say she became Hathor in Egypt. So the first king was the son of an Egyptian goddess. This all sounds like myth being repeated by a Greek tragedian but there are some fascinating details that definitely suggest very ancient myth he was repeating without comprehension.
Is it possible that all these king lists are just lists of kings who ruled contemporaneously with each other in the different regions of Egypt, and that they overlap with each other so that the Egyptian chronology and history is not exactly as we think it is?
This was fascinating, and made unintentionally (and increasingly) hilarious by my inability to hear "Menes" as anything other than "mayonnaise." Aha was Mayonnaise! 😂 I'm sorry
I’m always blown away by how long ancient Egyptian civilisation ran on for.
Right! And people think in that amount of time they couldn't make stone jars and amazing statues, it's sad, ancient tech degrades them down to loin cloth wearing savages(uncharted x) they were amazing!
Yes. One thing that amazed me was when I read that the pyramids were as ancient to the Romans as the Romans are ancient to us.
Trouble for Egypt was that military tech was frozen in time till came the Hyksos with horses, chariots, sickle swords & composite bows. The later said by some to originated in China.
Which one?
The problem is, they are entirely separate entities that feasted on the corpse of the previous kingdoms.
It was quite a long long time
Love the always multi-faceted analysis and thorough explanation of existing theories and evidence. I prefer understanding the question to being given an unsupportable answer - channels that respect the truth to the degree you do are rare treasures.
Well said
Aw come on, you know its aliens!
Agreed. I love that when I read "did he exist" I know there's not a presupposed answer, just a legit look at the evidence
That was easily the most comprehensive overview I've ever seen on this topic. Thanks, Doctor.
Kept giggling everytime I misheard mayonnaise and was waiting for this pic 12:46 to start rotoscoping. Great content as awlays. I bet your lectures would be epic without the disctractions of life surrounding a computer screen.
Thanks for doing these. You are providing a much needed service.
The first Pharao was the Scorpion King, also called the Rock. But he was overthrown by a runaway Borg Drone.
They mixed historical and mythological figures who lived millenia apart in that film:
-The original Scorpion King was a pre-dynastic king of Upper Egypt (c 3200 b.c)
-The Rock's character is an akkadian.People who appeared in Mesopotamia c 2300 b.c.
-His main nemesis is Memnon,the same name of the Ethiopian prince of the trojan war (if he existed c 1250-1180 bc)
-The city in the film is Gomorrah (early iron age if it existed)
Obviously!...
Thank you for the video. This is much more nuanced than my ancient history professor made it out to be. Of course, considering that I took that course about 30 years ago, I guess that qualifies as ancient history now.
Glad it was helpful!
I was hesistent to click on the link to your vid but am very glad I did. The last two Egyptian histories I've read, both publlished in the last 20 years, had put to rest Memes and replaced him with Namer. Good to hear a in depth discussion on the evolution of our knowledge on this. Thank you very much for the vid.
Menes and Narmer are the same person...
@@crimsonterror5795 manasse (massa) and nimrod (orion) appear both in the bible.
both represent a sinister type of destroyer, the same as appollos in the greek.
The history of mayonnaise is complex. Who knew? Thanks for the video.
Goddamnit, you beat me to it 😂
But how do you pronounce it - that will never be agreed upon!
😂
Racists claim it's white!
@@Eyes_Open Hellmann’s is great but the Japanese mayo seriously outclasses it.
I fully appreciate your patient and precise presentations. Thank you!
What a clear and scholarly exposition. BTW, I had the privilege of visiting the Petrie Museum, which made me think that a video explanation of the genre of "palettes" would be interesting.
Thanks, Prof. Miano, as always this video is fascinating and is a necessary cautionary tale for those who would truly understand history.
Man I don't think most people truly appreciate quite how old ancient Egyptian culture is. Thank you for the videos
As always, very informative, engaging and professionally done, Prof. Miano. Thanks so much for your hard work!
I've always been fascinated by the ancient Egyptian culture, and the question of how it all began is quite intriguing. Thank you, Prof. Miano.
I am always so exited to see you’ve updated! This was wonderful
We just need another find and everything changes, amazing. Thank you , great video as always
Love these ancient mystery vids.
I've been waiting for this one! What an excellent summary of the Narmer/Menes mystery. This is why I subscribe to your channel, and keep coming back for more.
Thank you for another fantastic video... I can't help but wonder what valuable information has been lost/destroyed over the many thousands of years, and what surprises still remain to be found !!
Menes , no relation to mayonnaise. Do you think it has a connection? What does it all mean 🤔 lol
On a serious note. Wonderful video ! Learning more and more each post! Thanks!
What a fascinating and multifaceted history! Then again, all of Egyptian history can be described that way. Thank you for taking us through each step of the way through this mystery, Dr. Miano. You always do this so well!
I'm leaving a like and comment for the Almighty Algorithm, in hopes it brings many more interested faces to your videos. 😊
❤❤
I wonder if king Algorithm the first king of UA-cam?
@@rebanelson607 lol! Probably. I remember when UA-cam first was created before G bought it. After they took control the heavy commercialization kicked in to see it flooded with infomercials/misinformation/disinformation/bots etc.. From that point on the almighty "click" geared towards advertising revenue became the name of the game and meaningful discourse took a distant backseat. 🤷♂
Thank you Dr a very complete summary.Personally I would love to see a piece on the relationship or not between these first Egyptian kings and Sumer culture which also existed at the same time.I believe the intertwined necks of the mythical beast on the Narmer P is of Sumerian origin.
I'll have a cheeseburger, hold the Menes. ❤ the content, Doc!
Narmer Palette. Just found you through Pete K I love your channel.
Something that I keep wondering about, I read somewhere that there was a mythological "First King of Egypt" called the Scorpion King which the Mummy and Scorpion King franchises are incredibly loosely based on. Was there really a "Scorpion King" in Egypt's early years? Or was the Scorpion King just mythological, like Theseus or Jason in ancient Greece?
There really was a Scorpion King.
ur fr a master of communicating info
What are the chances of finding further direct evidence of that time, taking into consideration the level of destruction and exhaustiveness of the sites? And another question, even knowing that kings by then already used two names, what is the chance of both being clearly associated in a contemporary inscription? I thought that the uses of the names were more or less alternative, serving to different symbolic functions.
Personally, I would think very high. Consider that the majority of ancient Egyptian sites are still untouched or even unknown, protected by sand and time.
Amazing information 👏
The carving at about 9:30. Could you do a vid on that. I'd like to hear your ideas. Well done btw!
Fantastic video as always Dr. Miano. Do you have plans for any videos about ancient American cultures? I am so curious about the evidence for contact between pre-Columbian central and south America, and it's hard to find videos or papers about that topic.
Such a detailed explanation. Thank you very much sir!
Really good video!!! One of the most in depth I've seen on Narma/Menes.
a side by side is the Narmer mace and the Moche tribute scene...the steps up to the canopy...
I have only heard about Menes a few times being the first pharao of Egypt.
What about Narmer? Wasn't he considered the first pharao or do I confuse something here?
You are correct. Most Egyptologists agree they are the same person
Thank you for this extremely informative video! It really helped me piece the puzzles together regarding early Egyptian history and answered many questions I had about that period.
-From an Egyptian fan
This was one of my faves from you!
Best content on all of UA-cam!
Hello Dr Miano
I want to know🔱 ~ tfsharing~❤
Enjoy your weekend
Menes (Kushitic name) = Nemes=Narmer . Applying honorific transposition standing. I think! The three set of Kings list are actually similar. It's the same names written in different versions. Linguistically you'll find the root words that are the common link
It's as simple as it gets, Menes is just another name for Narmer.
Brilliant as always,made my day,thank you
I wonder if Menes is an attempt at saying "him who we have forgotten", rather than assigning a specific name. Kind of like the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier.
Yes, did you get this from wikipedia as I did?
Amazing video.
In a way the problem of the identification of Menes is the same as the founder of the Hittite Empire: all later documents refer the 1st king as Labarna,but according to archaeology and earlier texts that should be Hattusili I.
Menes like Lanarna could well be a title.There is an exemple in Sumer itself: Sargon ("true king").
Strange that egyptian writer Manetho preserved the name Menes, but the babylonian Berossos who lived around the same time did not with Sargon the great.
Funny , greeks sources put another king in the same role as Sargon :Ninus of Assyria,who rullled circa 2100 bc,conquered all Mesopotamia (before the founding of Babylon itself) and ruled for more than 50 years.
It is really a shame both Aegyptiaca and Babyloniaca are lost.
He had at least two assumed names, including Ḫattušili, so sure why not?
Yes, I have been with this question, too, because of Egyptian chronology. Herodotus' flawed idea that Egypt is 11,340+ years old (which became the general Greek idea of Egyptian history) is anchored in king Menes as the first pharao of the united Egpyt. But I quickly concluded that the identity of Menes is not important for the problem of chronology, because the chronology does not change, whether Menes was real or not. Therefore, I decided to talk always of the "legendary" pharao Menes as the start of Egyptian chronology. Thank you for the video!
I would note that Herodotus like others seems to have related what was told to him - as opposed to formulating his own conclusions. Thus given how mythology played a prominent role in ancient societies it becomes less surprising that what is related can represent some verifiable fact - and some likely commonly believed myths.
So a possible myth as to the origin of a civilization - especially when it is related millennia after that civilization has come into fruition - is always a possibility. Egyptians of the day believing ancient stories about their culture relate that to subsequent individuals who are recording what they see.
Herodotus is considered _"the Father of History."_ Some of what he wrote has been validated by subsequent evidence. Some however is clearly mythological in nature - such as you alluded to. Thus one separates _"the chaff from the wheat"_ in discerning what might be accurate and what might be ancient lore accepted as fact by the people.
As an aside. An old culture desirous of portraying itself as great might create for itself mythical figures in its past to justify said assumptions. Think of the Sumerians whose own creation stories are clearly mythological as were say the Hindu myths. In so much as the Egyptians of the Late Period had a revival in belief in their "Old Gods" meaning the Old Kingdom Pharaohs when Egypt was strong it makes sense if they later during the time of Herodotus - following this period of revival - relate stories making themselves appear as great.
@@varyolla435 Absolutely correct. Yet in case of the flawed chronology of the 11,340+ years, I would like to make responsible neither mythology nor the tendency to make oneself appear as great, but a mistake in calculation / estimation on behalf of the Greeks. The Egyptians themselves did not have an idea of the summed-up periods of reign of all of their pharaos, it was only with the Greeks asking questions when this problem came up, and as we can see in Herodotus, the sum was produced by an estimation over the total number of pharaos, beginning with the legendary Menes.
What happened before the invention of writing that made Egypt divide into 2 kingdoms that also feel connected to one another and a need to unify.
Maybe I'm the only one. But your UA-cam playbutton award is a distraction with the ceiling fan running. Love the videos otherwise. Also your travel videos remind me of when the Discovery and History Channel weren't the garbage they show today. Well done❤
Your intro says to subscribe "for regular videos on ancient history". But I think your videos are actually quite good. Definitely better than just "regular"
Ha, thanks!
Isn't he talking about regular uploads?
@@piyusarkar3065 yep, that's why my joke is funny, it's a play on the word regular
““Egypt” is known in the Hebrew Bible as Mitzraim or Mizraim; the ancestor of the Egyptians was Mizraim, son of Ham, son of Noah (Genesis 10:6). The nephew of the ancient Egyptian forefather, Mizraim, was a man named Nimrod. He was the first post-Flood city-organizer and despot (Genesis 10:8-12). Alexander Hislop’s book The Two Babylons explains that Nimrod and his wife, Semiramis, became the inspiration for the legends of the chief Egyptian gods Isis and Osiris.”
Wonderful info thanks!
Is the muzak in the background intentional or did some neighbour turn up his radio? I honestly could not concentrate on the narrative and had to abandon it. Too bad.
Another possibility is the transposition of the consonants. The only reasonable certainty about ancient Egyptian pronunciation are the consonants. There is never certainty about vowel sounds. For Narmer the only confidence we have is that his name was constructed from Nr...Mr. If these signs are transposed the result is Mr...Nr. If we use the same vowel signs that gives us Mernar which, given the vowel sounds are far from certain, is not far from Meni. How such a transposition occurred could be due to changes in the language between the early dynastic and much later periods together with the fact that signs were not always written in the order they were to be read. Such transpositions are not rare, we sometimes do it ourselves. Hence we have Raneb to Nebra or Radjedef to Djedefre. I'm not advocating this possibility as a solution but I believe it's a concept to be considered.
King Mayonnaise is still revered worldwide. He still tops the Burger King.
nice work and i hope it is cleared up.
Also Diodorus Siculus said that his name was called Menas d.s pg 157. On that same page it describes the reign of the first Gods as "A little less than 18,000 yrs and 5000 years down to the 118 Olympiad, or when the new Greek king was Ptolemy I.
Then he says for most of this entire period this kingship was held by Native Kings up unto the conquering nations later.❤
Always wanted to know how many kings have died by animals.
King John of England literally shit himself to death after eating too many lampreys, so that’s a collateral maybe?
Probably less then Animals died by Kings.
Yazid the second umayyad ruler fell of horse
@@Discotekh_Dynasty counts.
Someone always gets eaten by tigers in Nepal. It is probably never true, but it is reported that way. Hippos have been mentioned many times.
thanks a lot as usual
So, who was king "mayonnaise" then? ;0) Great video!
Is it not possible that Narmer and Menes are the same name? Palindromic reversal is a common feature of African languages - perhaps Menes is a palindrome of Narmer in New Kingdom speak...the language changed and the name Narmer became harder to pronounce and so the syllables - either fully or partially - became reversed. This may have happened with other names too. Someone with the skills and the time needs to check.
What about the "r"s?
“How many accomplishments did he have?”
“Menes.”
But what about Scorpion King from Lower Kingdom ?
If I remember.
Is this the guy at Hamunaptra?
@@lastofmygeneration
I am not sure.
There was a documentary on Scorpion King on Ancient Egypt.
I was placing the scorpion king as one of the first kings but not of unified Egypt.
@@SkyFly19853there was a movie about him too starred by dwayne the rock johnson.
@@neva_nyx
I think so.
What do you make of the other lists that go back over 100 thousand years? I’ve always wondered why it exists
8:08 Recto? He nearly killedo!
It was obviously Dwayne the rock Johnson. Menes was half Scorpion.
I love these educative videos... have you ever been told you kind of look like Ed Helms?
I fell into a nap and this video came on. Woke up confused as heck who is King Mayonnaise and why is he important
I always thought the depiction on the namor stone was the sphinx not a people. What about the king statues that Herodotus saw on display and said that they were described as ‘gentlemen’? I thought that they kings before the first dynasty. I hope that I recalled that story correctly. And once again … great video
Could there be an etymological link between Menes and Minos? I ask this for several reasons:
1. We aren’t quite sure about the origins of Linear A (possible Egyptian link?)
2. Bronze Age Crete was, early on, a cultural satellite of Egypt and was heavily culturally influenced by Egyptian material culture.
3. Minos is largely believed to be a title (similar to pharaoh), and there are theories that Menes might also be a designation as well.
This is just something that popped into my head as I was watching this. Figured I’d ask if there might be anything to this. 🤷
They both sound like mayonnaise. Could they both have been condiments? See how similarly sounding words can be meaningless?
We don't know.Some scholars argued that the name appeared in Linear A (the language written by Cretans before greek invasion) as Mwi-no-ro-ja as a title for the king,but it is more speculation than fact.
@@DonHavjuan every time the Dr mentioned pharaoh mayo I was thinking lunch...🥪🍟🤣
Using your logic, the Biblical English Jesus name with the Spanish Jesus name with the Latin Iesus name and the Hebrew Yeshua HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON, just random coincidences about totally different words. They also sound like Giza. Also the words CHRIST, Christian, Christos, Christmas have nothing in common, they just use the same letters. Also Hercules and Heracles are two absolutely distinct words describing totally different people. Did you know that the German Gott is a different god than the Italian Deus? Because they don’t even sound the same.
@@DonHavjuan I just noticed your name is Juan. Totally unrelated to John, Ioan, Jonas, Ionas. They are simple words used for people that use the same letters and sound the same. I think no one was ever named after a saint in any language. I think everybody just invented similar sounding words to use as names for new borns out of pure necessity. Luke, Lucas, Lukas, Luciano, just names.
A Public Service Announcement. It is illegal (as far as I know in all countries) to deface or damage culture heritage sites and other historical relics. Recently in the Toshodaiji Temple, an eighth-century Buddhist site in Nara, Japan a teenage tourist carved his initial into a wooden column using his fingernails. It is a situation that has been happening worldwide at various historical sites with younger tourists (around 13 to 29 years of age) vandalizing the sites by leaving their initials. It takes time and a lot of money to repair the damage as skilled restoration professionals are needed to prevent any additional damage as normal cleaning or repairing can actually be worse than just leaving it vandalized. Meaning you will face at least a huge fine of thousands of dollars to pay for such professionals in addition to the fine for the actual vandalizing; you will up to the judge in most places be imprisoned for 3 to 7 years.
Takk!
King Mayonnaise and his issue, Hellman IV
I keep hearing "mayonnaise" 😂
It is frustrating to me that while history has always existed, the way ancient people thought about it was less about the absolute details (as we value them) and more about the value of the story for what it represents. By the time of the New Kingdom it is very possible that Menes real name had been forgotten, but I suspect it is equally likely that what Menes represents was far more important to them than his real name or real life, and that there could have been a kind of deliberate forgetting in order to reinforce the concept of Menes, and that using his real name might be frowned upon as reducing the actions of a god to a mere human activity. The king, by then, was considered a god walking among men, and therefore Menes could be considered a first god in that sense, too sacred to be reduced to mere human names.
5:40 He must have done something special.. or... someone who descended from him uplifted him to focus glory on their own ancestry. Or... the priesthood found it useful... for power. Or something else...
Interesting, I thought Narmer was considered the first ruler or pharoah of both upper & lower Egypt based on the evidence you showed in the video. 👍
King Mustard is not going to like this...
Fascinating! I wondering if Menes could refer to the First KingS plural? Like we refer to our "Founding Fathers"?
If king menes somehow time traveled to current times and started reading batman comics I bet his favorite villain would be condiment king. Just how mayonnaise eventually separates, king menes also separated.... Separated from being king then separated from life by a Hippo. I wonder if he had a miracle whip, like really good whip for his slaves. If he only had a Chile named aoli...
Menes.... Minos...... Miano......
Ooooh is this a coincidence, I wonder.....
yea ;)) the very first 4 dynasties are crazy interesting...thank u David! u know what is strange? Neithotep Mastaba seems to be a bit too advanced compared to the 1st dynasty tombs, u know what I mean right? The first kings had their burial in Um El Qaab as u mentioned, but they were just pits in the sand with a dune on top, no sign of mastaba on top ever, but then here it comes the first (probably) queen of Egypt that we know of having a mastaba and not even in Abydos but in Naqada,,, how do you make your mind about this? cause Graham also on his website has an article asking a similar question and to me, this is quite a topic! would u like to address this in the future? ;))
Neithotep was a very interesting woman! A nod to this fact persisted throughout Egyptian history although in later times it became extinct but in the early dynastic period the kingship did pass down the female line and not from father to son. So mother's of kings or kings to be were incredibly important. Neithotep seems to have been powerful enough to order mining and trading expeditions and there is a possibility, a strong possibility, that she served as Dr facto Pharaoh during the earlier years of her son Hor Aha after the death of the king. So what we may be seeing is a tomb not built solely for a very powerful woman but also a woman who acted as Pharaoh until her son became of age. In the early dynastic period this seems to have been much more acceptable, even normal, than it was in similar circumstances for Hatshepsut in the New Kingdom.
de facto.....
"Menes" in Egypt, and "Minos" of Crete. Sounds awfully similar to me...
So here's a conjecture: "Menes/Minos = some mythical first King"
manus and yanus, the twin from indo-european creation myth, a king-priest dual twin
How have you not made content about the kemet community?
It could be a very good debunking video
He did a video last year. ua-cam.com/video/iDUNsGGEXm8/v-deo.html
Do you mean Khemetology? He has such a video ... ua-cam.com/video/iDUNsGGEXm8/v-deo.html
@@lornayounger1414 ohh how did I miss this !!!
@@lornayounger1414 wait no, wrong kemit ... I'm talking about the guys who are like Hebrew Israelites.
This video is kumit
@marcuslegion3654 oh, ok.
I had no idea that the ancient Egyptians held mayonnaise in such high regard
Menes walking in Memphis, walking with his feet ten feet off the Nile,
Menes walking in Memphis, his story travels mile after mile.
Is he Narmer or Aha, or a name we've yet to unveil?
Menes walking in Memphis, his legend continues to sail.
Omg this was entertaining haha
menes = Tom Thumb ?
I don't know who this Mayonnaise guy you're talking about is, but he is pretty famous for his potato salad.
It's always comforting to know (believe) that before Egypt there was something that we cannot yet name , that the Egyptians knew as we know them. Just thinking. ✌️
Well, I will be more frank about this ( menes ) because most of what we learned were sadly something that has nothing to do with the reality of his life and what he did and even the wars he lid .
He was from an aristocratic family,
His parents were not so easy going, they were cold and tough.
Besides he was spoiled but in a sophisticated Way with his grandparents Morals, Traditions mixed with the modern adventurous taste.
His unique test.
After he was done with his education from the highest level of philosophers at that time.
And also he was in love with geography and History of the previous real warriors And his Nanny was narrating to him their mysterious Legends.
And he was fascinated by their Glorious Battles.
Snd since he was a child he used to play with his sword,
With other kids of his age till he grew Up and his sword grew up and got stronger.
And he decided to collect his army and hit to different directions to open them and Free their Nations from dictators and the Humiliation and shame they were rolled with.
And he successed to open most of the complicated empires and take all the kings and princes as hostages back home with him to protect them from themselves.
And to teach them a new techniques to use later.
And build new empires with dignity Care and loyalty to the one King 👑
Otherwise they were going to be destroyed from the unknown.
And be burnt by their mislead.
And he succeeded to put them on the beginning of the right Road.
And they spent their rest of their Life, doing what he asked them to do.
To survive and to lighten their Way by taking them from Darkness into the Bright light.
And he died trying to make the World in the Best condition.
And people who lived during that period were the luckiest ever.
And they learnt alot from Him.
In all scientific, educational، philosofic, religious and sexual parts of Life.
How to be Humans.
And showed them their Real Enemies.
And in Luxor temple there's many writings about his legends.
But the sexual part I can't mention here because it was something related to the ROYAL DNA and protecting what they mentioned as immortality ( theres 2 kinds of immortality, the one of the soul and spirit and one of the physical part )
That story just very few know it.
I just narrated its summary.
Because its so long and deep and real classified.
A-Ha was Mayonnaise. That explains it all! And this first King, was born 3000 years after the Pyramids of Giza were built by the Mustard Brothers, because it is written in Stone on a dung beetle scarab.🐞 Thanks for making the reading of all this graffiti, a clear Diamond.
You should do the Scorpion King next (no bad CGI though).
I came into this video thinking, "Wasn't Menes another name for Narmer, and don't we have tons of evidence of Narmer?" and I mostly was right, but I'm thinking that when I learned about the Narmer palette in Art History, it may have just been assumed that Narmer was Menes, and they didn't want to get into technicalities with Art History students, since that wasn't the point of the class.
I'll bet they told King Mayo..."look, if you can unite Egypt we'll change your name to Narmer" ...the opposing army couldn't hold the Mayo, thus a united Egypt was born.
My complaint here is that even if the lists *definitely* agreed, that could just be because they copied each other.
Menes is King Minos of Crete. He had the largest navy and Crete is not that far from Crete. Which is why Egyptian directions are backwards North South from a Cretan point of view.
Respect to you.
He was Narmer right?
What about Epaphos? In the Greek tragedy, Prometheus Bound, he is mentioned as destined to be the first king of Egypt. This is a prophecy delivered to Io, that she will wander to Egypt and there bear a son to Zeus named Epaphos. Now this is way too late for history (5th Century) but we can assume it's based on ancient myths. Io was half cow and myths say she became Hathor in Egypt. So the first king was the son of an Egyptian goddess. This all sounds like myth being repeated by a Greek tragedian but there are some fascinating details that definitely suggest very ancient myth he was repeating without comprehension.
Is it possible that all these king lists are just lists of kings who ruled contemporaneously with each other in the different regions of Egypt, and that they overlap with each other so that the Egyptian chronology and history is not exactly as we think it is?
I juat heard the good professor say "Aha! was mayonnaise" several times. I think I have sleep debt
This was fascinating, and made unintentionally (and increasingly) hilarious by my inability to hear "Menes" as anything other than "mayonnaise." Aha was Mayonnaise! 😂 I'm sorry
I love this video.