The REAL Reason Why Your Toms Sound Bad
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- Опубліковано 6 гру 2018
- A.K.A, The #1 Problem with CHEAP Drum Kits. Sometimes, no matter how hard you try, you still can’t get your toms to sound good. Maybe you’ve followed every tuning step you can possibly learn on UA-cam, and you’re still left wondering “Why are they not in tune with themselves?”…“Why is there an awful out-of-tune ring?”…“Why can I not get any low end and resonance out of my floor tom?” These questions all point to what I consider to be the #1 problem with cheap drum sets. Today we’re talking about what these two biggest issues are with a lot of less expensive kits out there, and we’ll talk about ways to overcome these problems. We’ll finish the video by taking apart my kit and closely examining the shells to find out whether or not my cheap kit is GUILTY. This will be a fun ride, so enjoy. :)
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VIDEO LINK:
Check out this recent video all about snare tuning (a good prerequisite to this vid!):
• There is NO SECRET to ...
You must keep the cheap kit for purposes of this website and for appropriate gigs you mentioned. Buy an upscale kit because you are that glamouus drummer.
If you're know the shells are not out of round, go to Goodwill/Salvation Army etc. and buy a cheap glass table wide enough to accommodate the diameter of your shells. Buy some course grit adhesive sandpaper, stick it to the tabletop and turn the shell. You'll know it's flat when you hear a squeaking noise as you turn. With medium grit, hand-sand the inside of the bearing edge to round it back over.
It's also possible to fix a bent hoop (assuming it's not out of round). Lay the hoop on a flat surface and put your index and middle finger of your left hand on top at 9 o'clock and the same fingers of your right hand on top at 3 o'clock. Tap your fingers around the hoop with your hands directly across from each other (10 and 4, 11 and 5, 12 and 6 etc.) until you find a spot where the hoop won't wobble. Move that spot to the 9 and 3 position, if it's not there already. This will be your fulcrum point. Line this up with the edge of a countertop/table top/bench etc. and push down gently on the hoop a few times with the heel of your palms at 12 and 6. Check for flatness again. Keep repeating this until it's flat.
Greetings, from Las Vegas! This is precisely why I subscribed to this channel. You're an honest, straight-forward person who doesn't need to brag about a corporate sponsored drum kit that a company gave you to flaunt on your channel. You can relate to the vast majority of drummers because the vast amount of us don't have a top-of-the-line kitm but we do have a kit that we are not only accustomed to, but have a sentimental attachment to in many cases. The subject matter of your videos is always pertinent and is always helpful. Many drummers rarely concern themselves with bearing edges or hoop rings but they are important components to be mindful of. This is a great vid, Stephen. Thanks for your insight, your humility and your passion for what we all do!
if you DO have a cheap kit personally I would suggest remo pinstripes...those heads seem to pull out the best sound on any given cheap drum..barring all the issues that are outlind in this video.....great video by the Stephen Clark....although Im a 40+ yr veteran I always learn something from yor video's....excellent work Stephen...
Keep this kit but also get a better kit. Then you can do comparisons. And get inspired by playing a nice kit.
go for wood hoops ahhhhh i would love to see videos on the differences between wood and metal hoops. and definitely hang on to the kit. people are always looking for videos on how to fix/salvage cheap items or otherwise create more value out of something. i would love to see that drumset's character arc fully realized. How good could it possibly be made? is this even it's final form?
My first kit was thoroughly a mongrel... It was crappy... And mismatched as my Mum's pots and pans but it was robust to my sometimes not-so-gentle ministrations and getting it to sound anything like satisfactory taught me a lot about patience and drum construction. You gotta love what you do... I spent some time and effort carefully using Sand paper and elbow grease around the drum's shell edges.... Worked for me... The Hoops were a little trickier as many of them aren't partial to being manipulated too much before fracturing. Metal fatigue is a bitch. Dealing with humidity and heat? Humidity issues can be dealt with by coating the exposed surfaces with a resin then applying a sealant, particularly to the shell's inner surfaces. It's a bit like detailing a car and if one goes as far as adjusting what I've always referred to as the lugs and anchors, then it's almost like blue printing an engine... I was stripped the outer surfaces of coloured outer laminate so I could sand and seal the outer surfaces.. Ended up with a nice wood grain kit that sounded... Well... better but looked much better than the one I started with.
Thanks brother! Good video, I will definitely be doing this test. With my son as well!
Oh boy, after watching so many of videos I’ve concluded that your Tom’s make excellent volunteers.
“Faithful little guys I tell ya”.
My first kit (1971) was a good used Ludwig from the 60's, back when the quality was excellent. I saved up $100.00 (a lot back then) for a second Ludwig tom that matched my set, and when I got it home, I could not get it to tune. After removing the heads I found that the bearing edge had not been cut evenly and it had a huge flat wide spot with no edge at all! I sanded it down by hand to match the rest of the bearing edge and viola! It tuned perfectly. A lesson on Ludwig's quality control in the 70's.
Thanks man, now I have more lights about this problem
Great tips! Thanks for sharing.
Excellent video! Every single tuning video should mention this. Ya get what ya pay for, and before you buy the kit, check this stuff out.
You should keep it and find another one to do side by side comparisons. Great info!
Keep your beater kit! I have one just for the reasons you mentioned and wouldn’t change a thing!
Great video, man!🤘🏻🤘🏻
where the two slabs of a countertop meet in the corner ( at a mitre) will never be true flat. Use thick Glass or slab of finished marble.
can i use a concrete wall to check whether the drum shell and hoop are even?
Thank you for this video I have learned a lot.
I do have the electronic drum kit TD 11.
But I want to try the acoustic drums.
Years ago I read an article by the geniuses at OCDP, and they recommended that you do this, but use a glass table top (if you have one) and a credit card. The credit card shouldn't be able to slide underneath... So I did that on my old prosumer Mapex kit, and sure enough, there were just a few areas where it wasn't flat. Brought all the shells to my local drum maker to have them re-cut, and wow what a difference it made!
Also, from my experience you don't necessarily need to buy new hoops. I've found that they are very easy to bend in small amounts by hand. After fiddling with them for a minute or two, you can usually flatten the edge of the hoops to get them to sit evenly. That being said, the bearing edges are still going to be the bigger issue. The only solution there is to get them recut, which while it really isn't very expensive, it'll most likely require you to package and send off your drum to a shop, unless you have a local repair shop. If you decide to just fix the hoops, however, keep in mind that any unevenness in the bearing edge will probably result in your hoops rebending due to the pressure from the tension rods forcing the hoops to conform to the shell. Anyway, I hope this helped, and thanks for the video!
Cool thanks I will try this
When you had the low volume heads on your kit like the silent stroke and black hole, did you take them off every time you had a gig? Seems like a lot of work for quiet practice.
I'm another vote for holding on to the non glamorous kit and getting some nicer equipment. I still have my Pearl Forum drum set my dad bought me when I was in kindergarten! The kit is sentimental to me but it's my beater these days ie: open mic, a band rehearsal, or providing a backline kit... but my pride and joy is my little Ludwig Club date! It's only a little flat setup like Ringo had but that little four piece is heaven to me. The biggest drum set I could ever fantasize of would be John Bonham's 5 piece. Nice for getting in and out of gigs and doesn't take up a ton of real estate either set up or tore down.
Unless you're taking a John Bonham sized 4 or 5 piece with that massive 26 inch bass drum!
I have a used forum series set too, how quality would you say they are?
@@TealTactics mine are 15 years old and all the shells are still together and in round. My big problem with the set is that you can't get a real nice crisp tuning. You can put hours and hours and into it, even with a tune bot and drum dial you have to accept a little bit of variation from lug to lug. Going back to when I was five and my dad's friends would come over and give their shot at tuning my set the floor tom always left something to be desired. To this day that 16x16 floor tom is a real b**** that won't let you get that satisfying floor tom thud. Currently I have coated vintage ambassadors over coated ambassadors and I have the resonant head slightly tighter. It sounds like a messy underwhelming Bonham set tuned like that. So if you need something durable The Forum will do if you need something sonically pleasing I'd suggest checking out some Ludwig's :) Ian
@@TealTactics and for what it's worth my Ludwig special edition Club dates are exceptionally forgiving with the tuning! When you sit at the kit you can have the toms not in tune with themselves and of course it won't have that satisfying feel due to all the overtones coming back at you but out in the audience perspective something happens where they smooth out and will still provide that Ludwig sound and you can't even tell they're out of tune. That being said they tune up like a dream, you can get the heads in tune with themselves with almost no effort and then they sound huge!!! And I picked the kit up used for $457 out the door!!!!! You can't beat that for a less than $500 drum set.
Non glamorous kit ftw! I think it’s a good point in case that buying a high quality drumset will not make you a better drummer.
I would totally understand though if you bought a intermediate to high end kit though, for the occasional inside gig with no house kit, which I suppose happens every so often.
Thx. Another utoob vid suggests that it's about how solid the shell is not how many ply or angle of grain or even type of wood because resonance diminished adding lugs etc. So it is about placement of heads and having minimal contact with edges.
Thanks man, know i have more lights about this problem
Get a Sonor. I'd either go with the new AQ2 (maple) or something a little more expensive like an SQ2 (birch)...
But definitely keep your current kit.
Keep... sometimes, a spare, individual part may be required. Or, double the size of the new kit...2 kicks, extra tom, cymbal, etc.
I regret selling my first drumset. Not that I would still play it, but I could have at least passed it along to someone else who could use it.
Get a pdp concept series maple kit from my experience its great
Just bought the exotic maple kit. added two toms to the standard five piece. Can't wait to play it.
Some good practical tips.
Keep the kit!!
The woodblock is not real flat, a sheet of glass is always real flat. A little vintage tip to ease tuning is to rub a natural, white candle on the top of the bearing edge, it helps the head settle into tune easier, also a dab of grease on the tuning bolt end helps or use a drop of light oil.
Ever thought about checking out Outlaw Drums down in south Ga? They are AMAZING!!!!
drums lack good bearing edges in all price ranges since appr. 2002, when companies started using CNC machines for the edges. Somehow they suck at this, and getting a new set with level edges is really a lottery. Actually the cheap drums from 80s/90s are way better manufactured than todays entry drum kits. So old drums might have dents from sticks, but the CNC-disease really is pretty common today.
buy new pieces to add to the non glamorous drumkit create a monster kit you can break into what ever size kit you need on a per gig basis throw some electric kit pieces in there and cowbell! you need a couple of cowbells!! I have 2 on my very sexy red non glamorous drumkit
Dw actually doesn't cut their bearing edges completely even. They put two concave dips that are parallel
Jordan Thoreson - only on snare drums. Those are called snare beds. All snares have them. Any drum (other then a snare) has perfectly flat edges. :)
I build drums...a flat edge to cut the bearing edge is crucial!
So... Where to get descent hoops from for not diamond prices then?
Mine are all oval... Bought the kit new
Ffs
Get a nice tama kit! Maby the starclassic b/b!
If this kit works for you, then there's no need for some fancy upgrade, just some new hoops, and maybe some cool snare drum. Btw, what's that kit anyway???
I would say that you should keep the kit, then do a collaboration with rdavidr to modify the kit in a way that makes it sound better.
there was a BBQ or a grill outside
keep it. get a piece of MDF or other perfectly flat surface. big enough to fit your whole bass drum on in case you want to fix that one. glue sandpaper to the whole surface (or get adhesive backed sandpaper and stick it on). stick the drum on top, and give it a few turns. bam, flat bearing edges. (no longer sharp, but flat and even)
Keep the kit and lightly sand then stain the wood to make it look glamorous! I’ve got a nice kit I keep at home miced up and another kit just like yours for live/kit share/backline requirements. No point taking a high end kit to a hardcore show 😂 I’d recommend Evans Hydraulic heads for drums with less than perfect edges as these heads are more forgiving.
Interesting, how do you think Remo Pinstripes compare to Evans Hydraulics in ease of tuning / holding the tune?
Teal Tactics I haven’t done any comparison to be honest. As with anything drum gear related it’s trial and error and personal preference. The Evans Hydraulic are well known for being easy to tune giving a fat dark/dampened tone.
Teal Tactics on the Evans site they say “Hydraulics are famously easy to tune, making them a perfect fix for troublesome drums”. That’s why I’d recommend trying them if you have a badly behaved drum.
It's funny that NGD stands for both "Non Glamorous Drummer" and "New Gear Day". Coincidence? I don't think so... ;)
I'd keep this one, and maybe get a second kit.
Is it not possible to get bearing edges re done by a professional??
Regarding your low end kit...if it ain't broke no need to fix it.
Imo get a new kit, you deserve it i’d suggest a tama silverstar or a yamaha stage custom birch
Two aren’t mutually exclusive. Keep the kit for the show but treat yourself to a quality instrument inspires you.
The cash from the sale of that thing would be minimal anyways. So keep it and enjoy it.
Your camara constantly adjusting is making me go crazy.
Hang on to the kit.
Been drumming since I was 8...im now 52. Ive learned that a good drummer is what makes the difference. A good drummer [like you for instance] can make a shitty set sound like a $10,000 kit whereas,a bad drummer can make a $10,000 drumset sound like shit.
Besides,this set sounds really good...to me anyway-good miking is one more thing that helps,but I like it.
Hang on to it. Zero Glam
Get a up grade. Buy something off the guitar center used gear web site. A lot of nice kits in the $400 to $600 price range.
Any way I Love ur other vids ... cheers 🥂
Keep it
Do a video on learning to play triplets really struggling
Drumeo makes a good one. I also found one that helped me learned counting and playing 16th note triplets. I'll paste the link in another comment.
ua-cam.com/video/UWP2oGTVm6I/v-deo.html
Devan Douwes thanks
My toms sound good, but I'm watching this vid anyways cause Stephen is DOPE
What amount of money would you class as cheap? My kit was £1000 back in 2005. Is this cheap?
But you should have used an another title for this video
Keep the non glam kit for the scenarios you mentioned. Get nicer kit for better scenarios
Keep... sometimes, a spare
Keep the kit.
I think you should definitely buy some glamorous hoops for your non glamorous set, see what happens and let us know.
yes its very hard to tune cheap drumsets after spending lots of time just trying to tune your drums me: sounds like Sxit
i did learn tuning in cheap drums (pearl roadshow)
Keep it if it works why change it. If it works it works.
Thanks man
Will this comment get lost in all other comments ?
It's not that hard to fix your own bearing edges
Treat yourself
Geez man, I think you should upgrade! You don't have to pick up a $5000 kit to really upgrade from the one you have. BTW, what is the kit natural kit anyway? It often sounds poor in your videos; and I don't like how low you always have your snare tuned (my personal preference) but it sounds like wet slop. You're doing yourself a disservice bringing that kit to gigs. Just some constructive criticism for you.
Hold on to that cheap ass pile of shit. I have a cheap 4 pieve peavey drumset that I paid $100 for. I put nice heads on it, keep it in tune, and to the non trained ear, you can't hear the difference. Perfect for practice, and I haven't broken my bank.
Looks like a Ludwig accent. Keep it just for practice
Buy a nicer kit but still keep this one for gigs.
Sell it and get another cheap one :P
Meow
Lol you made a video that’s basically step 1 quality will always effect the end outcome jeez .... I commented without watching based on the pin tittle .... kudos to curing your boredom I mean to each their own . .... I mean the topic of this video is just whirly ...... common sense ? Like this videos concept is just giving me cancer And I’m not even watching it’s not rad ..... each sentence said in this vid is basically double stepped ...
Keep your beater kit! I have one just for the reasons you mentioned and wouldn’t change a thing!
Great video, man!🤘🏻🤘🏻