right, this title might be a 3 horse race. Tomb, Sepulcher, and Palace. My vote is on palace bc it was way closer tuned, only 4 bosses were "a challenge", but no bugs or super inflated HPs. Still took 12 days for 8 bosses 1003 total pulls. Ovi 117, Kyveza 288, Silken 213, and Queen 404 pulls. Plus the variety of comps (most specs / classes seen used in rwf maybe ever?; utilized 1-3 tank strats in and a ton of dps + healer combos) ToS had 9 bosses 19 days 1248 total pulls, last 2 bosses 454 & 655. 3 others bosses took 16/40/74. Also a pretty solid argument at buggy / unkillable bosses padding those numbers. Sepulcher much the same with bugs / unkillable but also had 11 bosses 18 days 1224 total pulls 38/50/340/246/66/194/277. lower pull counts across the board.
idk dude, looking at numbers Palace took 12 days 8 bosses 1003 total pulls. Ovi 117, Kyveza 288, Silken 213, and Queen 404 pulls. Amidrassil took 13 days 9 bosses 839 total pulls, Fyrakk 340, Tindral 399, Smolderon 53 pulls. Sepulcher 18 days 1224 total pulls but had 11 bosses, 38/50/340/246/66/194/277. lower pull counts but a lot more bosses and arguably halecon, anduin, jailer were "bugged" so that slowed things down big time. Crucible of storms 2 bosses 10 days 933 total pulls 202/731 (i don't remember this one tbh so I can't vouched for the vibe check) Sargeras 9 bosses 19 days 1248 total pulls, last 2 bosses were notable at 454 & 655 (another bugged fight argument as well) but 3 others pulled 16/40/74 times rest were 1-4 pulls. Otherwise overall vibe check, palace utilized the most variety of specs & classes no? 1 tank strats, 3 tank strats? I think sargeras was the last time a 1 tank strat was used but that was bc it was a "busted" fight. My money is on palace.
@TheEsportsMeta pull count aside, 1/2 of the raid was full of walls past the 4th boss with the 5th boss requiring an entire comp change to deal with the mechanics which is unheard of outside of penultimate or final boss of a tier. This is on top of the fact that the guilds skill level today are far greater than they were back in Sepulcher, which was the last raid that was considered the hardest raid ever. Something that will be interesting next raid is Method pushing into the WF race and giving a respectable performance nearly clearing before Echo making it a 3 horse race. Really excited to see how the next race turns out with seemingly 3 guilds now going for it. Edit: pull count is a hard metric to judge boss difficulty depending on if a boss was bugged or if there is a mechanic early on in the fight that can 1 shot the entire raid leading to faster wipes and more rapid fire pulling cranking up the pull count number.
@lichmourne I'm with ya 100%. I think most specs/classes played and most variety of comps. Also blizzard was able to tackle this raid way better as the "game master" too. HPs were well tuned, no real big bugs sepl or tos and other raids. Palace passed the vibe check and the data check. Though I think viewers were down because (people smarter than I were saying) it was less red vs blue style of mechanics. Debuffs or dots were way more subtle than don't stand here or pick this up stuff. THD clutching up the last pull for liquid which would've gone unnoticed by viewers if max didn't talk on stream with THD right after they celebrated.
prob ToS was the hardest, fallen avatar was like 400 wipes + and Kil'jaeden was 700+
right, this title might be a 3 horse race. Tomb, Sepulcher, and Palace. My vote is on palace bc it was way closer tuned, only 4 bosses were "a challenge", but no bugs or super inflated HPs. Still took 12 days for 8 bosses 1003 total pulls. Ovi 117, Kyveza 288, Silken 213, and Queen 404 pulls. Plus the variety of comps (most specs / classes seen used in rwf maybe ever?; utilized 1-3 tank strats in and a ton of dps + healer combos)
ToS had 9 bosses 19 days 1248 total pulls, last 2 bosses 454 & 655. 3 others bosses took 16/40/74. Also a pretty solid argument at buggy / unkillable bosses padding those numbers.
Sepulcher much the same with bugs / unkillable but also had 11 bosses 18 days 1224 total pulls 38/50/340/246/66/194/277. lower pull counts across the board.
palace wasnt the hardest raid ever
It was
idk dude, looking at numbers Palace took 12 days 8 bosses 1003 total pulls. Ovi 117, Kyveza 288, Silken 213, and Queen 404 pulls.
Amidrassil took 13 days 9 bosses 839 total pulls, Fyrakk 340, Tindral 399, Smolderon 53 pulls.
Sepulcher 18 days 1224 total pulls but had 11 bosses, 38/50/340/246/66/194/277. lower pull counts but a lot more bosses and arguably halecon, anduin, jailer were "bugged" so that slowed things down big time.
Crucible of storms 2 bosses 10 days 933 total pulls 202/731 (i don't remember this one tbh so I can't vouched for the vibe check)
Sargeras 9 bosses 19 days 1248 total pulls, last 2 bosses were notable at 454 & 655 (another bugged fight argument as well) but 3 others pulled 16/40/74 times rest were 1-4 pulls.
Otherwise overall vibe check, palace utilized the most variety of specs & classes no? 1 tank strats, 3 tank strats? I think sargeras was the last time a 1 tank strat was used but that was bc it was a "busted" fight.
My money is on palace.
@TheEsportsMeta pull count aside, 1/2 of the raid was full of walls past the 4th boss with the 5th boss requiring an entire comp change to deal with the mechanics which is unheard of outside of penultimate or final boss of a tier.
This is on top of the fact that the guilds skill level today are far greater than they were back in Sepulcher, which was the last raid that was considered the hardest raid ever.
Something that will be interesting next raid is Method pushing into the WF race and giving a respectable performance nearly clearing before Echo making it a 3 horse race.
Really excited to see how the next race turns out with seemingly 3 guilds now going for it.
Edit: pull count is a hard metric to judge boss difficulty depending on if a boss was bugged or if there is a mechanic early on in the fight that can 1 shot the entire raid leading to faster wipes and more rapid fire pulling cranking up the pull count number.
@lichmourne I'm with ya 100%. I think most specs/classes played and most variety of comps. Also blizzard was able to tackle this raid way better as the "game master" too. HPs were well tuned, no real big bugs sepl or tos and other raids. Palace passed the vibe check and the data check. Though I think viewers were down because (people smarter than I were saying) it was less red vs blue style of mechanics. Debuffs or dots were way more subtle than don't stand here or pick this up stuff. THD clutching up the last pull for liquid which would've gone unnoticed by viewers if max didn't talk on stream with THD right after they celebrated.