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i miss the days when the only thing you needed to pay and work on were battlepasses

"Your sense of progression should be tied to your rank, or your account level, or champ mastery level." What do gamers get for this? Smugness? That's kind of toxic. The satisfaction of playing the game? Sure, but that just means they play until they're bored, stop, then move to the next game. People want something to show for investing time into something they like and a number is something. So gamers, including non competitive players, buy cosmetics to freshen up the thing they spend time & energy with. They differentiate the way they look in game over time... so they visually progress it. Okay so that's all fine, but why does that include a $250 randomized shard system based inside a separate cosmetic store? Didn't realize the previous cosmetics weren't priced to sell and small indie company Riot was struggling to make ends meet. The shareholders must be very disappointed. The frustration here is the "luxury" framing, the artificial scarcity, the fomo marketing, and the separate system to avoid it being call a loot box, lottery, gacha game, an effort to avoid different laws. Give people a chance to play the game and get it too (attach it to champ mastery, have it take 5 years sure w/e). Not just swipe a card in 2 secs.

Man there's a lot to unpack in that. I appreciate your thoughts and you make some interesting points but you might be thinking a bit too narrowly. Quake, Unreal, Doom are no question the origination of the genre. Absolutely established the initial expectations bc of how innovative they were at the time but the genre is arena shooter. You're in a closed space, an arena. You need to aim to target / shoot. 1st person, 3rd person, or overhead. Bow, Lasers, Rock, Monkeys. Doesn't matter. Maps, weapons, movement are all sparkles to why your game is better than others. Those originals were fun fast pace FPS games. The genre is centered on them but it's more than them. Left for dead's multiplayer is an arena shooter. MOBAs have a splash of arena shooters too. Its absolutely a spectrum. To be fair we probably should've focused more on the term "hero shooter". For the last 20+ years, 99% of online multiplayer games are arena shooters so those two terms have become interchangeable. This video was discussing a conspicuous amount of hero arena shooter games announcing in a short span. Concord, fragpunk, supervive, marvel rivals, Star Wars Bounty Hunters, and more announced within a couple of weeks of each outher outside of a large convention. We discussed why here, why now, why this genre is watered down. What they need to be to take overwatch's audience which is a top contender in the area besides apex, valorant, cs2 as other variations of the modern arena shooter. Regardless, there's a push by developers CHOOSING to make and release games in this style / genre. Agree with it or not, they're doing it.

@@TheEsportsMeta No problem, thanks for your reply that was very respectful and right to the point. :) The term arena shooter has become antiquated anyways, there have been so many arena shooters that have come out especially between 2013-2020 and all of them always die out, I think it's time I just accept that niche sub-genre will die out, so I'm enjoying them while I can. In your opinion do you think that style of game will ever do well again or has it ran it's course?

Great question. Video games are weird right now and competitive gaming has mostly become a retention strategy for battle passes rather than skill / progression. A good arena shooter would be nice, Split Gate 2 is looking really solid after the 1st as an alpha beta did well. I miss action RPGs that were more than 10hrs of play time without DLC. My DEF answer though, I'd like to see more games release as finished products rather than alpha, beta, DLC, fix it in live service. Baldur's Gate was such a breath of fresh air. Besides arena shooters, are you into other genres? Other FPS games like tactical shooters?

@@TheEsportsMeta I like fighting games of all kinds, platformers, beat em ups, shmups, and of course Boomer Shooters. :) But yea I'd definitely say arena shooters and hyrbrid kinda like games like halo & Gears of War are my favorite. :) Those two franchises are in not good places right now either tbf.

Also fighting games are having a tough time as well since, alot of them are using something called modern controls, ruining what makes those games so awesome and skillfull.

Right, I was thinking of the bundles when I said that.

Def a safe bet 💯. Even if they're not looking for it, this game mode is gonna generate a ton of data for no hero swapping, for build pick time of abilities (which could inform how much time is needed for pick ban in game), for best of 5 format, as well as the hero talents themselves. What works in game and what doesn't.

right, this title might be a 3 horse race. Tomb, Sepulcher, and Palace. My vote is on palace bc it was way closer tuned, only 4 bosses were "a challenge", but no bugs or super inflated HPs. Still took 12 days for 8 bosses 1003 total pulls. Ovi 117, Kyveza 288, Silken 213, and Queen 404 pulls. Plus the variety of comps (most specs / classes seen used in rwf maybe ever?; utilized 1-3 tank strats in and a ton of dps + healer combos) ToS had 9 bosses 19 days 1248 total pulls, last 2 bosses 454 & 655. 3 others bosses took 16/40/74. Also a pretty solid argument at buggy / unkillable bosses padding those numbers. Sepulcher much the same with bugs / unkillable but also had 11 bosses 18 days 1224 total pulls 38/50/340/246/66/194/277. lower pull counts across the board.

Appreciate it!

It was

idk dude, looking at numbers Palace took 12 days 8 bosses 1003 total pulls. Ovi 117, Kyveza 288, Silken 213, and Queen 404 pulls. Amidrassil took 13 days 9 bosses 839 total pulls, Fyrakk 340, Tindral 399, Smolderon 53 pulls. Sepulcher 18 days 1224 total pulls but had 11 bosses, 38/50/340/246/66/194/277. lower pull counts but a lot more bosses and arguably halecon, anduin, jailer were "bugged" so that slowed things down big time. Crucible of storms 2 bosses 10 days 933 total pulls 202/731 (i don't remember this one tbh so I can't vouched for the vibe check) Sargeras 9 bosses 19 days 1248 total pulls, last 2 bosses were notable at 454 & 655 (another bugged fight argument as well) but 3 others pulled 16/40/74 times rest were 1-4 pulls. Otherwise overall vibe check, palace utilized the most variety of specs & classes no? 1 tank strats, 3 tank strats? I think sargeras was the last time a 1 tank strat was used but that was bc it was a "busted" fight. My money is on palace.

@TheEsportsMeta pull count aside, 1/2 of the raid was full of walls past the 4th boss with the 5th boss requiring an entire comp change to deal with the mechanics which is unheard of outside of penultimate or final boss of a tier. This is on top of the fact that the guilds skill level today are far greater than they were back in Sepulcher, which was the last raid that was considered the hardest raid ever. Something that will be interesting next raid is Method pushing into the WF race and giving a respectable performance nearly clearing before Echo making it a 3 horse race. Really excited to see how the next race turns out with seemingly 3 guilds now going for it. Edit: pull count is a hard metric to judge boss difficulty depending on if a boss was bugged or if there is a mechanic early on in the fight that can 1 shot the entire raid leading to faster wipes and more rapid fire pulling cranking up the pull count number.

@lichmourne I'm with ya 100%. I think most specs/classes played and most variety of comps. Also blizzard was able to tackle this raid way better as the "game master" too. HPs were well tuned, no real big bugs sepl or tos and other raids. Palace passed the vibe check and the data check. Though I think viewers were down because (people smarter than I were saying) it was less red vs blue style of mechanics. Debuffs or dots were way more subtle than don't stand here or pick this up stuff. THD clutching up the last pull for liquid which would've gone unnoticed by viewers if max didn't talk on stream with THD right after they celebrated.

Totally! Like she would need some range attack to poke so she's not useless when she's not diving but then the rest of her kit seems to scream close range

Very Fair. This game is gonna be a ton of fun and I think the new heroes/villains are gonna be the primary force in that so they need to be top notch.

@@TheEsportsMeta sounds great too me.

would be a cool feature and pokemon company has done cool things like that before. though I think tcg pocket is intended for new trainers, collectors, and not us sweaty og tcg players :P :D

In fairness, the segment was Billy explaining the info and it was Nick reacting with his thoughts on it. With WoW specifically he's had some grievances and (I feel) pretty wild demands of the game philosophy over the last 15-20yrs that we've played.

thanks! yaa i realized after we shot. loxodant is one of the new fighters. aether 1 was cool for the "dlc" characters like ori

Top level esports are definitely suffering from bad actors and corpo-greed. BUT, Historically colleges used traditional sports like American football as a recruiting and alumni strategy. That strat supercharged those games over time. Students ARE interested in competitive gaming, colleges WILL follow. The friction is really whether or not the game devs holding things back. Like the NFL didn't have to ask football's game developer to organize games.

Def do but this card was a problem, had something like a 70% win rate in tournaments and almost a 50% play rate. Normally decks are like 10-20% play rates

@@TheEsportsMeta just face it, organized magic is stupid. The players and creators don’t know how to make a balanced game. The players are crybabies and the developers enable crying.

There's a pop up when you load the game that says "EARLY DEVELOPMENT BUILD. Deadlock is still early in development, with a lot of temporary art and experimental gameplay. Do not share anything about the game with anyone." To clear that popup you need to hit escape or okay, either way is legally acknowledging the statement. An action made to clear that don't speak about it popup. Lawyers do more with less and everyone who played it in secret seemed to agree hence why no one said anything until the verge leaked. Shroud showed the deadlock discord message confirming the "NDA was lifted" (what it literally said) the day it was lifted and then talked about the game publicly for the first time. At minimal its a gag order, but valve being a big company (though they're more good guy video game company than others; a very low bar) their lawyers almost certainly considered it an NDA. Do not disclose information about this thing. Are you saying that a publication like the verge was working with valve in some way to build secret hype for the game announcement by leaking screenshots and gameplay? or that was ultimately the pinky promise? From my pov it looks like verge leak forced an announcement from valve that they're leveraging right now.

@@TheEsportsMeta I don't think Valve would permit this super sneaky secret project to be unleashed on tens of thousands of people via friend invite, and then have lawyers squalor over how they can pursue people, even the Verge, in a court of law. Of course Valve wanted people to play the game and talk about it - it wasn't actually a secret, everyone knew about it prior to the Verge posting that article. Even that discord post you are talking about doesn't actually say the word "NDA". Valve's legal team almost certainly would have consulted with Valve's executive team and developers and said, "Hey, do we actually want this to be covered by a formalised NDA? Otherwise we have no way of protecting this game from being leaked" - to which the rest of Valve would have certainly made the calculated choice to not push a formal NDA, and made a calculated intentional choice to let the game spread like a virus via invites. I'm not saying Valve colluded with the Verge, but Valve knew publications like the Verge would post about the game because Valve was not formally protecting their game from being leaked. Yes, NDAs as a legal instrument do not have to have 'Non-disclosure agreement' written in big bold words. They can be implicit. However Valve chose to not protect their game with a formal big bold NDA, and if this went to a court of law, a magistrate might just say "well look at the way you freely allowed mass distribution of your game to unvetted players; on that notion there wasn't even an implicit NDA, let alone a formal signed contract". It's not a gag order either because gag orders pertain to ongoing lawsuits, of which Valve has not started any over Deadlock being leaked, to my knowledge. I don't think their lawyers consider it an NDA at all. I think this because I think Valve released this game in a weird and covert way as a marketing stunt, and the stunt was in essence that Valve didn't want people to talk about this top secret game because it was so tippity top secret. Except it wasn't, because Valve mass distributed it and had no legal instruments protecting it. If Valve wanted to protect knowledge of the game, they would never have mass distributed - and so, there was no NDA, neither explicit nor implicit. I'm not trying to be a dick, by the way, I don't mean to come off like that. Your video raised some interesting points. I just think it was an operative choice for Valve to not pursue any legal protections.

We are a podcast after all

yes sir. appreciate the honest feedback. we had a mic fx issue that we didn't realize until after the show and currently working to resolve.

I don't think it's that hot of a take. Gaming is a tale of two cities. Highly competitive xbox live 12yo trash talk and fight for your rent money stress / anxiety. Its def a fair thing to say with competitive esports' financial instability. We believe esports needs to "grow up" with the trash talking (ie not just defaulting to "i slept with your mom" & n-word :| ) so it can grow up with the money. Maybe that means players need to be older too? On the fence with that one but the argument there is these 17yos brains haven't finished cooking so of course they fumble how to shower or haven't mastered the eloquent art of trash talk. Hell, how many stories of the profession athlete rookies crashing the brand new car are there? Shaq famously spent a million dollars the moment he signed his first NBA contract. Not exactly responsible. And then Conventional athletes chirp at each other all the time BUT have more insulation. They've got player unions, codes of conduct, a different kind of PR department from the AAA Game developers than the major sports leagues, and a lot more to lose.

@@TheEsportsMeta A good your momma joke comes in clutch. Every time. And the majority of the time everyone can laugh at it cause everyone understands, it's a joke since it's been around for so long. While I'm not against trash talk I'm not for unnecessary trash talk or physical contact and at some point it does become harassment and some people actually do take it way to far (IE calling someone a 🐻over comms or saying you're going to 💀someone irl b/c you're "trash talking", that is an example of WAY to far, you just said a person is about to commit a felony and in the other falsely accusing them which still can be career ending even if completely false) but that line is in different places for every single individual which makes it hard to tell where that line lies. The main thing I'm against is taking our amendment rights such as freedom of speech and just COMPLETELY STRIPING IT just because it hurts someone's feelings WITHOUT taking it to far. A code of conduct if you will. Just go back and look at Eminem. He's the whole reason CD's came with the a Parental Advisory sticker they tried to silence his music based on just words that came from his mouth that he skillfully crafted to ignite emotion. Freedom of speech, man up, suck it up, move on. No one forced you to join an esports organization or to play a competitive game. I do not condone physical violence or emotional abuse but the art of competition has 2 sides. One: you're insecure about who you, where you belong, etc, and your trying to fill that gap. and Two: You just want to be the best version of you at that skill set, opinions, words, or otherwise doesn't phase or bother you b/c you're only goal is to improve yourself and anything else isn't your problem. With One though comes this "play nice" mentality b/c they're insecure, they can't take any trash talk. And with Two, they simply don't care or they are over it in the next 5 minutes and it'll never be a thought again other then maybe in a joking format. An amazing example of this is what the Super Smash Bros Esports circuit has become. They're nice but they all bullshit and trash talk just as well. Grab that, study that and put that in the code of conduct and I'd be completely fine with it.

Absolutely, we discuss this in our recent podcast episode about apex legends' new battle pass. the one thing I still feel is important to acknowledge is that we love these games and want to play them so it does hit the feels when this shit happens. first impulse is to fight for sure but you're right, at a point move on and maybe come back when it's chill.

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@@TheEsportsMeta How dishonest

Yeah I don't think it would be an issue in commander, its the evoke ability that's the quiet killer. Pushes a bigger advantage in the other formats.

@@TheEsportsMeta I mean honestly? from what I understand about other formats, this card is no different than any other control spell, it's just a cheap control in mono black. Also I use control loosely as a overall term for controlling the pace of the game/controlling the narrative to keep it to how you want the game to be played.

in another comment thread @augrills hits the nail on the head. Its cheap, sets tempo, and creates advantage / you don't lose advantage. I think it's the lynch pin in oppressive vibe of black decks right now. There's a reason the deck with grief went from a 37% to a 50%+ play in the last couple weeks. We here think its grief.

Even if you can counter it, it’s a one drop that’s strictly better than any other one drop lol. Heck, it’s even better than a 1 drop cause you can play it on turn one and still have a land untapped

It's not a skill thing. Look at play % and win rates in legacy. The last 30 days reanimate went from 37% to 51%. Grief is in the top 6 of 10 decks. Players are choosing to play with this deck and they're winning. No one is "finding" a solution that doesn't put you behind like @augrills is saying.

@@TheEsportsMeta There’s literally no downside to playing this card. You don’t lose card advantage, there’s a ton of damage, a ton of tempo, a ton of value, and it stands on its own as broken. At any point in the game it’s either nuts or good.

@@TheEsportsMeta Awee someone is mad that they're bad. How typical.

Sorry you lack critical thinking skills. 🤷‍♂️

Holy wall of text batman. Thanks for the feedback, do appreciate the notes. There's a lot to unpack here but don't totally have the time. The biggest thing I want to point out is that a meta isn't something hard and fast. It can be very loose. The reasoning is because people. Player sentiment can skew for or against stuff so best or meta can very intangible. Ideally it is which tool makes a task or problem easier, ie a hammer is S tier meta for hitting nails BUT you can do the same job with the back side of a screw driver. If the screwdriver is on your belt but the hammer is in the truck, people will use the screwdriver. OW is more complex but same principles apply.

yeah but with the BR characters, the legends. Playable in an action shooter. Hell we'd even like to see them do an RTS or auto-battler with them. Throw in the titans too!

@@TheEsportsMeta an rts would actually be super cool if they brought in titanfall grunts and had legends be hero types. I get what you’re saying!

​@@AkaTipla dude that'd be so cool with the Titans and if they could some how keep some sort of movement from Titanfall 🔥

Exactly, Probably a big reason why. We're not anti spending money on a game but sheesh people going too hard with the wallet on these free games.

Yes we stream. Still new, and new to UA-cam. Just hit a good point for tech tech. Tried out shorts and I think some videos double posted

@@TheEsportsMeta enjoying the content. But you could ask your co-host to buy a better mic.

​@@Reyfii appreciate the honest feedback and yes something that we're working on ❤

but have you ever tried type 4?

He's figured out our duplicity! Quick run