For those who somehow managed to watch a 26 minute video about tires (bless you, you make this channel go round!), and still want more tire information - great news! Here are two other videos you may enjoy (which are both shorter watches). Why Grip Is More Important Than Power: ua-cam.com/video/S2S6MJt0998/v-deo.html Why Some Worn Tires Perform Better Than Others: ua-cam.com/video/Xa5i0xvmVSg/v-deo.html
I loved this video, it has so much useful and relevant information about the different tires, brands and designs! I was shocked to see that in comparison to the really expensive tires, the relatively cheap Kumho tire performed really well on all areas. What I'm wondering now, is if there is information like this, information about worn vs new tire performance for more brands, like Toyo Tires, Falken and Nankang? I'd be very interested to see those as well! Again, loved the video and keep up the good work!
I've been a tire fanatic since the mid 80's and have read and watched tire reviews for decades. The one major thing that makes AAA's test irrelevant in the worn tire test is artificially inducing wear on the tire. A tire goes through heat cycles and climate temperature changes throughout it's life cycle, all those variables can make a big difference on the performance at the end of it's life cycle. In the past I've had some tires show signs of cracking and tread separation before the wear bars were near the limit. That would never show up in an artificially induced wear test and could potentially be more dangerous than the reduced stopping distance. Sorry for the geek tire rant, my wife says I'm insane when it takes me a week of research to pick out tires for our cars lol.
Quite possibly you are a tyre guy. There is a lot to be said of ozone attack, salt solution elixirs, & sunlight. Not to mention the effect of the wearing medium. Florida uses sea shells in their asphalt. So my rule of thumb is Michelin in the south. Everything else in the north. I do run some Michelin and they are the model with the walnut oil. Yes. the Premieres. Cheers.
@@ckm-mkc My tires are almost new, less than 10000 miles, but I'm already researching. (I win!) But it's mostly because the previous owner put ultra cheap crap on to sell the car.
How about the claimed warranted mileage? My uncle's 2011 Explorer chewed through a $1100 set of Premier LTXs in 23,000 miles. It's a 55,000 mile warranty tire, and yes his alignment was good. One his second set, he went from 5k mile rotations to 3k miles rotations and made it to almost 26,000 miles. He now has bridgestones, which he doesn't like as much, but hopefully will last. Time will tell. My 2012 Volvo XC60 came with half worn out Hankook tires on it when I got it used and I had gotten 33,000 out of them when replaced at 3/32. No, I did not buy Michelins.
As an automotive engineering student, I find this video super helpful and good to learn... up to a point I kept stopping at comparison graphs and took down notes. This video took me an hour to watch instead of 20 minutes. Really interesting and excellent video! Keep it up!
wow. I used to work at Discount Tire and I knew that Michelin tires were really long lasting and they never had factory defects as long as i was there but I did not know they also performed that well.
bradman Swag I’m using Bridgestone right now and I love them! Before the Bridgestone I had Firestones (which are the ones that came with the car). But my next tires will be Michelin! I want to see how well they do.
doodr absolutely. I throw a connecting rod going 85 miles on the highway, there was some aluminium and steel pieces as well as oil leak so it was a hazard to people following me but as a driver I was able to stop safely using the inertia of the car. I was lucky that the engine didn't seize or otherwise my rear tirea will lock up.
It's fascinating to see the differences not only in price but also between new and worn tires. The "mechanically worn tires" which I applaud that disclosure, might not legitimately represent a road worn tire with edges scuffed off and hardened tread compounds from repeated heating and cooling over the years. I do realized that there are unlimited variables that could be taken into consideration for tire testing but you've done an excellent job here. Again an outstanding video. This has also confirmed my choice for many years of Michelin tires in all applications. I just have to put in a plug for Michelin. Over many years they have served me very well in all types of midwestern weather and have contributed in my avoiding many traffic "incidents" over the years.
Science has to remove as many variables as possible and compress time for results to be relevant. A machine that wears all the tires to the same consistency is the only way to get direct comparisons.
That 10ft stopping distance can mean life or parking the car ahead of you in the trunk of the car ahead of it. I sold and installed tires on thousands of vehicles at a big box club store, the Michelin tires always lasted longer, had the best reputation, had the best customer satisfaction, lasted closer to the mileage warranty and in my opinion, performed better than ANY other A/S tire made. The extra $100-$200 a set is entirely worth it to me. Save the others for drifting/track and run the best possible tire you can afford on the road. Best does not always mean most expensive either. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH FOR YOUR EXACT TIRE SIZE AND DESIRED APPLICATION.
I agree with your mentality, I definitely think it's worth paying extra as long as the tire performs better (not to mention tire life, warranty, dry performance, etc).
I do agree with you as well with Michelin performance and customer satisfaction because I observed the same thing when I worked on tires for three years.
I worked at a dealership so I installed/inspected plenty of tires to know you are right. Michelin tires did always last longer. Some of them lasted so long they had dry rot before they were anywhere near the tread bar. Granted this is more of a maintenance thing, but lasting forever doesn't mean they are always the best.
Great explaining at 72 my Dad taught me about tires. I try to pass information along all these years.The most important thing is distancing between your car and the one in front of you.
yup, that is a big factor like take the pirelli vs the michelin the pirelli may keep new performance longer before having a sharp decline towards the end of its life while the michelin may have a more linear loss of grip. no way to know that based off this test. **edit also doing wet only testing seems like a mistake as well.
Absolutely. The question that comes to my mind is that did they wear them down the same "driving distance" or to the same "worn out leve" (which comes after a different distance)
This is what the study says: "All tires were artificially worn using Michelin North America, Inc. equipment, under the supervision of and/or close inspection by AAA researchers. The tread profile of all tires was precisely measured by a laser scanner and the profile data was then input into a specialized buffing machine that automatically buffed the tire surface with an abrasive disk that provides a surface finish representative of actual road-wear. The machine was manually operated for the final buffing stage. All tires were buffed to a uniform tread depth of 4/32” and prepared in a manner consistent with ASTM F- 1046-01 [4]. This standard for preparing worn tires was utilized because it ensures all tires are worn in the same manner. This would not be possible with actual road-wear."
@@kiviknuuti1538 In real world the wear is caused during a long period of time which causes the rubber to harden. As a result, the weared down tires are even worse than in this test in real world.
I used to always get cheaper tires. I then spent the money on top of the line Michelins and it was well worth it. They are amazing and last 3 times as long as my cheaper tires.
I like BF GOODRICH tires bc they're the best ...i never get a nail on the tires at all. I used Bridgestone tires and i got nails often ... also, michelins, too. if you have a chance, try BF GOODRICH tires ..I THINK THEY'RE nail-free or something but NEVER get one if i use BF tires...... if u look at the tires... pick the one that has 3 trends on the TRIES .. dont pick 4-5 trends on the tires bc they get nails easily .. PICK 3 TRENDS on the tries only .. my BF GOODRICH got only 3 TRENDS on the tires and never get a single nail
Next time you're in the UK and have some free time, we should definitely sit down to have a geek out about tyres. I know the car throttle guys really well, perhaps we could meet there?
Please do! I'm a subscriber to both channels, and I'd love to see your (collective) thoughts on the Michelin Cross Climates and everything else Tyre :D
I live in Michigan and the year I decided to STOP using All-Season tires year round and go with a set of Blizzak WS-70/80 snow tires in the winter and a set of Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Positions in the summer was the year everything changed for the better. DITCH THE ALL-SEASONS IN THE SNOW - keep the All-Seasons for wet/dry in the summer only. You can't even begin to understand how extremely superior a modern snow tire is in the winter to an all-season tire in the winter. It's like not even having snow on the ground, that's nearly how well the Bridgestone Blizzak WS-70/80 series works when you put a set on ALL four wheels (regardless of FWD, RWD, 4WD).
NorthernChev Interestingly, I went to NOKIAN HAKKAIPALETAS STUDS WINTER, AND SUV NOKIAN SUMMER: been smart here in East HELENA MT!!! FRONT DRIVE Journey...
I have to respect you for avoiding a clickbait title like "are expensive tires worth it?" Or "price Vs value in tires". You gave a clear indication in the title. Thumbs up!
Allan Ø.N. they better do, check how thick they come new and check some review on how fast they were. I do like Michelin defender and x-ice but just not that exact tire.
TBH i don't know that specific model either.. I have however only had good experience with Michelin tyres for my cars.. I do not in any regard regret switching from Goodyear F1 to Michelin Pilot Sport 4 on my BMW 3-series (tbh the ride on the F1s were subjectively more comfortable and had different and a bit less intrusive road noise... but they wore out very fast and had a poor directional stabilty imo).. In the past I have had Michelin Energy tyres running more than 80.0000 kms and still going strong (street legit)...
It's one of their selling points. The grooves are tapered so they widen as the tread wears down. They're also quiet. I'm on my second set of Premier's. I spent a lot of time comparison shopping the 2nd time around but came back to the same tire.
I agree but I wish they had added some data about how quickly the tires wear. I am very pleased so far with my pilot super sports. I think we chose well with Michelin.
Jason, thank you for taking the time to do this review. I watched this video when you released it and now I that am in the process of buying tires, I have gone back and reviewed your video. I also went to AAA and got the actual report. This video and the report by AAA has been very helpful to me in my tire purchasing decision. Thank you for your honesty and integrity in all your videos.
I have had Pirelli's for a while and feel like they're great when I get a new set, but overtime they just don't hold up. So its nice to see this corroborated by some data. will definitely have to look at michelins next time I need a set.
Even though I barely understand what is going on some of the time, I still watch your videos and try to learn as much as I can. UA-cam channels like this are why I am so grateful for you and UA-cam. You are one iteration of Bill Nye from my childhood lol
To really get a good correlation they should have run much more than 6 tires, although I imagine it came down to cost for doing the study. Statistically you can't do all that much with 6 samples though, you need more like 30 to get good statistics.
For what they are trying to test I don't think running multiple versions of the same tire actually helps, beyond reducing the uncertainty in the values for that particular tire. The same is true for running the tests multiple times. And actually you're definitely only getting one data point between four tires, so that fact doesn't help at all. They're trying to look at the correlation between price and performance for all tires, so their samples need to be different tires at different price points. Yes, there are valid tests to can do for small sample sizes, but they still aren't as reliable as having larger samples. Thats why we have the replication crisis in psychology. Everyone uses as few samples as possible and only publishes significant positive results, so almost every result is actually just a statistical artifact.
This is one set of tests, testing only one facet of a tire (wet performance), done at a facility Michellian has 24/7 access to. So it's not really a surprise they did well. It doesn't tell you how well they might perform: on a temperate day, on a high temp dry day, on a gravel road, or very low temperatures. These are all conditions that an "all season" tire may face. You may find some very different results. Not saying the Michellians are bad; I've got some on my FoST. Keep an open mind, though.
If you look at TireRack results, generally speaking, Michelin do very well in overall ranking across various different tire sizes and uses. So, this isn't a one off result, this just adds another data point for Michelin being top tier.
i bought a set of nexen snow tires last year and they were great, even during spring they still drive good with little noise while procrastinated on buying summer tires.
TL:DR Nexen tires are the fine wine of cheap tires. Kumho are the Michelin of cheap tires. If you're going to spend a lot on tires, spend all the money and get Michelin tires.
Makes me double happy to have put PS4 on my car last year. I feel like they perform really well in real life, too; especially in the wet, they are miles ahead of the Bridgestones the car wore before.
Kudos to AAA and to you too for bringing this type of information to light! I am a bit of a nerd about tyres, so this was a super exciting and interesting video. I'd love to see all tyres tested in this way in the future, but also in dry grip because with cheaper tyres the tread area expands as the grooves are sloped. Anyway, thank you again for this, I can't wait for this to become the industry standard on tyre tests.
When in doubt run Michelin‘s lol When I bought my legacy with the flat six it came with Bridgestone Trunza El400 what a horrible tire for the car and I know the manufacture save a lot of money on them I can understand that, yes I switch to Michelin pilot sport AS 3+ literally transformed the handling in my car it was like a different car!
My Forester came with a set of Bridgestone Dueler's, I used them for 10,000KM then swapped them out for Michelin Premier A/S's. Bridgestone's are for winter.
Got a used set of 18” wheels with Pilot A/S 3 tires. Unbelievable responsiveness. Night and day difference far beyond what I thought was possible. Can’t imagine having anything else in the future.
Shame there was no metric to see how fast the tyres would wear down, if you only get 6000 miles from one but 10000 from another for example that would have a massive impact on value.
Indeed, I was tempted to buy Dunlop sport maxx rt2 as they're superb for grip and low road noise but I was put off them when advised they're made of cheese and only last 5,000 miles.....
Once I've got a set of Michelin Pilot Sport 3 (ps4 not available for my car nor rim) or equivalent, I can't go back to nor go for cheap tyres! Performance and safety is my priority.
Ian Holmquist bs! Bridgestone Potenza RE003 Adrenaline is! Less treadwear rating, inferior traction rating and YET more expensive than my set of Michelins! More over there is hardly any understeer nor oversteer in wet weather with my Pilot Sport 3!
Another AWESOME video, Jason! There's so much to tyres than the average guy realizes - compound chemistry at the molecular level, reinforcement, wall thickness, pattern, inflation pressure, temperature and much more. Motorcyclists (like me) have seen arguably even more dramatic changes in tyre ability since the 1980's and feel tyre properties _very_ directly. More tyre videos please! All the best, Rob
I live in NY state a few miles from the end of the Massachusetts turnpike and have been driving here for 30+ years. We can get just about any kind of weather you can shake a stick at from -10F to 100F . I've had Michelin Defender LTX M/S's on my 2010 4WD Tacoma TRD Off Road for almost three years now and love them ! These really are the best preforming all season tires I have ever owned ! If your truck is 4WD and you don't do serious off-roading or treacherous snow plowing, these may be the one tire option for you ! 2WD's that have to handle un-plowed roads, steep slippery hills or some off-roading will probably need a more condition specific tire, and a Differential locker wouldn't hurt either!
I purchased a set of “Ironman” tires for my 2004 Dodge 5.7 Durango and they’ve been awesome !! Had for almost a year and it’s my daily driver. Kenda makes good tires as well for vehicles and motorcycles.
I think Toyota needs to go back to the drawing board and rethink their braking. That small light car stopped a lot slower and took a lot more distance to stop than the huge and heavy F-150. Not a Ford fan but I will give them props for their ability to stop that short and fast.
Bad Drivers of NW Montana the laws of physics still apply here. You can pretty much guarantee that both cars are engaging the ABS system when braking, meaning that for both the F150 and Camry, the tires are the limiting factor, not the braking system. For the F150 there is more downward force on the tires since it’s heavier than the Camry. This equates to more friction between the tire and road which could have contributed to the better braking performance.
nagonzo counterpoint: the car has narrower tires than the truck, which is better for "bad" surfaces like rain and snow. Even though the truck is heavier, the contact patch is bigger so it probably sinks down about the same as the car. Imagine standing in sand barefoot, and them standing in sand on a board.
Bad Drivers of NW Montana weight of the truck plays a huge factor in why it can stop so quickly in the rain. If you did these same test on dry ground you’d see that the camrys stopping distance would be cut down way more than the trucks.
Ian Holmquist that is true because each time the tire lock up, you lose distance. As much as I hate ABS, it is safer to counter the fact that the tendency of our brain to brake harder when we want to stop faster.
Usually bigger, heavier and faster cars have better brakes to cope with braking at the high speeds they are designed to go up to, downhill. As the camry doesn't have the sheer mass of an F150 it doesn't need much brake power to stop at speed on an incline. It's also not what you'd call a performance vehicle, so you'd expect things to be a bit weedier compared to a brute like the f150. Better comparing to cars in it's own class.
I would like another tire video! I have recently been choosing directional tires for my vehicles. I want terrific grip and a quiet tire. My mechanic advised against directional High Performance tires due to my disdain for loud tires. Is quite ride truly a drawback to directional tires? Are directional tires more likely to get "chopped" during regular driving making them much louder? If you have a chopped tire, will a healthy burnout smooth it out and quite it down? So many questions and I believe you are the man with the answers!
Working in the NVH field, I was a little disappointed about not covering the NVH part. We are currently perform at our lab Tire noise tests provided by a lot of tire companies for a car manufacturer which want to compare tires, and these little differences, even though it doesn't subjectively emerge, is quite a big deal because some of these good tires are not chosen by the car manufacturer because of a quite low noise limit. And it is actually worth to mention that above 50 km/h, the interior noise in cruise speed is mainly tire noise and not the engine. But very cool to see the skid pad tests, my colleagues from this field will enjoy that =)
Great study performed by AAA. Excellent and easy to understand analysis provided by EE. Appreciate this. Now only if AAA will perform the same study on summer performance tires...
I'm coming back to this video with a few years of trying tires. My test cars are an Audi A6 and a Subaru WRX STI, both protuned at 480-490 hp. The best tires I've ever had, by a huge margin, and with input from a 1000+ person drivers club: - Michelin Pilot Super Sports for summer. They have such amazing grip that they absolutely fixed understeer in the A6. They are also insane in the rain. They don't even hydroplane when other tires I had would 100%. They do wear down fast though; about 2.5 summers for the A6 (2.06 tons though) and 3 summers for the WRX STI (1.6 tons). (I'm excited to try the Pilot Sport 4S, which is the newer version). These tires are really helped with the 0-60 times. Got 3.9s with the STI and 4.1 with the A6, about a 0.2-0.3s improvement in both cars, without any squealing, compared to factory tires! As these age also look for drying and cracks between the sidewall and the tread. - Hakapeliitta R2 for winter. They are insanely good and they last 4-5 winters! They are so good, that I even drove two rallycross stages with my Subaru on ice and snow with them, and they did so well. These age really well. With both cars, I was also able to climb insane hills, and be just fine, in situations where other vehicles with winter tires were getting stuck. I wanted to put in my 2 cents after a few years of daily driving, on track, rallycross, and commuting. I'm confident I found the best tires, except maybe the Pilot 4S might be better. The cool thing is that both summer and winter tires behaved and aged about the same in both cars. They are expensive though; 4 sets of tires (because 2 cars) were around ten grand Canadian!! Now I have one car left, and looking for jobs due to COVID.. Sigh
I can back up the findings about the Pirelli Cinturatos, mine stink in the wet and are becoming absolutely horrible as they're wearing down. I'm really looking forward to getting dedicated sets of winter and summer tires.
I'm tired of these videos. I get it, I made a bad decision cutting corners on tires. Stop rubber-ing it in. Lol, just messing. This video was good ... year.
Would have been a valuable contribution if you tabulated the material/tire properties for each manufacturer along with the AAA results. This would help in tire selection for those brands not included in the study. Thank you for what you did. Really enjoy your channel and keep up the good work.
Interested to know your thoughts on the 'artificial' wearing of the tires. Certainly this improves consistency for the tests but doesn't factor in things like sidewall breakdown or aging of the rubber.
Thanks for the link. This still only proves to me that michlin is still the best brand I can get for my wifes truck. Now just need a summer only tire study for my car. Arizona doesn't get rain or snow so a/s is not a limiting factor here.
SubZero I can't break traction on them with my Brz and I'm making above 40hp stock, my brother has a 2013 mustang GT and even he has a difficult time breaking traction.
I have worn these sons of b** on my turbocharged nb miata and they still won't brake traction under first gear full throttle. Understandably, they seem to lose grip on the wet due to lack of tread.
an excellent explanation ... you change the game rules. this study can help manufacturers to develop a better generation of tires. I've really enjoy it. thank you so much.
This analysis seems very incomplete without any data points around tire life. The cheaper tire may more or less match the expensive tire in overall stopping/lateral performance both new and worn, but you can't prove/disprove value without considering how well the tire resists wear. All other factors being essentially equal, as this study suggests, if a tire costs 30% more, but wears 50% slower, it would be the better value. Without data on wear, you can't really say if expensive tires are worth it. This study certainly proves the need for analysis on tire life, as the tires all performed withing a pretty small deviation and value is not going to be easily derived there. Love the channel, been a long time follower. This was great analysis - it just need another dimension of data to be "complete" in my opinion. Keep up the good work!
What is not factored in is wear economics; how many miles do you get out of that tire for the money? This might also make the cheaper options less attractive.
I attended a New Owner class at a car dealership. The shop Foreman said “Our cars come with two brands of tires, Goodyear and Michelin. We’ve never had a Goodyear tire failure that was Goodyear’s “fault”. We’ve never had a Michelin tire fail; period.” My experience (driving for 50+ years) has been the same. And OEM installed Goodyear tires have lasted about 40,000 miles. OEM B. F. Goodrich tires went about 80,000 miles. I got 100,000 miles on Michelin replacement tires. I liked driving on the Michelins. I’m enjoying some “stud-less snow tires” year round, on my 300,000+ mile minivan. They work well on snow and ice too. Wish I’d had them when I lived in Alaska.
First off, wanna say love this channel. Subscribed and watch a lot. I replaced the crappy entry level Fierce Instinct 'performance' tires that came on my Golf Sportwagon with Goodyear Eagle F1 asymmetric A/S. A vast improvement in every way. Wet/dry grip, handling, better ride quality (by a large amount) and lower noise. They even did ok in light snow. The original tires were underivable in any amount of snow. I'm running 18x225 btw. Even though this is basically an econobox, it has terrific handling & I like to push it pretty hard. Maybe a bit too much, as got a speeding ticket on way home from work. Originally wanted Michelin Pilot Sport summers, but decided I'm too cheap and lazy to run two sets. I got the Eagles because they were $200 less a set than the Michelin Pilot A/S. I have zero regrets. These are fantastic tires. $600 for a set plus $50 install is a lot of money in my book, but I think well worth it. I don't drive a lot, so these will probable last life of the car.
Yep, there are definitely expensive tires that also offer major improvements in performance. But as this study shows, sometimes price and performance don't actually correlate, which is unfortunate. Important to do your research on the individual tires you're looking at buying.
@@EngineeringExplained agreed with u. Many tires nowadays including Michelin PS4 and PS4S have only 1 sidewall ply (compare with older PS3 with 2 plies), due to Michelin needs to comply with the R117 regulations in order to meet the S2WR2 requirement. These softer sidewalls resulted too much flex, and both sidewall and shoulder damaged in 15 laps on track. Testing was done based on a Mercedes CLA45 , Size 235/35 R19. Hot Tire pressure: 41PSI. Camber: OE Spec F: -2 degree, R: - 1 degree. Toe: 0
I swapped just the front pair on a Focus 1.5 ecoboost from summer to all season and for the weather here in the UK the slight bit of road noise was well worth the trade for such a grip increase when braking or cornering. It was about the same as swapping a sway bar and bushes. For a FWD car I was just too cheap to upgrade the rears.
Not necessarily. We had a set of 60k mile Michelins only last 8k miles on our 02 Suburban. The tire shop found no alignment problems with the vehicle. Hoping they will honor their warranty. Most Michelin tires are fantastic, but not all :(
Well you could conclude that it's better to buy cheap and change them more often. Cheap new was better than expensive worn in most if not all of the tests.
Michelins suck...they paid for the study and it shows...ive had the displeasure of using those tires about 6 times on vehicles i purchased and they always were terrible...they do make a decent truck tire though they call them something else
I switched to Premiers on my 2007 Corolla, it's night and day compared to the Pirelli P4s it had before. With no ABS or traction control, I wanted the best all season I could find. All of the traction loss under acceleration is gone. Braking and cornering are excellent. Best of all, they seem to perform about as well in the rain. The car doesn't feel like a deathtrap anymore. Cost around $500 with some Costco incentives. I feel a little more validated in my investment after seeing this study, thanks!
I'm disappointed the AAA tire wearing procedure wasn't described more fully. Did it emulate heat cycling a tire experiences over 40,000 miles? Does the heat cycling by itself change tire grip in the wet? Anyone who runs competition tires can tell you about heat cycling and how it degrades grip.
I'm glad I finally stumbled across this video. My Mustang had Pirelli OEM tires and my F-150 had Goodyear OEM tires. I put another set of OEM tires on each car before I put Michelins on both vehicles. I always thought the difference was remarkable, but here's the hard data as to why. Michelin really does make a good product.
Excellent information! A suggestion for the future would be the inflation pressures of tires. There is a very large amount of opinion on this, especially in the RV crowd. Many say to inflate to what the pressure embossed on the tire is. Others say to reduce it to 90% of that. Though on a brand new rig, the recommended inflation pressure is provided on a label on the driver's side door panel, there is still confusion. Especially when tires are replaced with non-OEM tires. My reason for this suggestion is regarding safety. Where there may be many of the tire failures are due to incorrect operating inflation pressure.
I have Michelin Premier A/S 91V tires on my Corolla. I was downtown, approaching an intersection, travelling in the right lane at 25 mph. An Audi came from the right and went through the red light. There were 3 adults and two children in my car. I had the combined distance of the crosswalk and one lane to stop in order to avoid hitting the Audi. I stopped and missed him by 6 inches. The Audi flew past my bumper and slammed into a car in the left lane. The Michelin Premiers saved me, my car and the passengers. No other tire would have worked. When tire salesmen try to sell me something else, it's a non-starter. I say "OK uh huh, uh huh, give me the Michelins".
Goodyear tyres have good feel, especially the UHP summer tyres. No need to avoid them IMO. I think you can buy the Eagle F1 series with confidence, be it the Asymmetric 5, Super Sport or the regular Sport. :)
@@TassieLorenzo I don't have extensive experience with Goodyear tyres, but i had one set that was supposed to be "sport tyres" the eagle F1 and they were absolute trash at least in the weather conditions in Cyprus. In the first turn or two it would offer amazing grip and then fall off a cliff as if I was riding on marshmallows, I quickly switched (after a week) to Bridgestones and then Yokohama when they needed change after a few months, I was going through tyres and brake pads faster than homer simpson goes through donuts) which were more consistent but when I switched to Pirelli Drago and OMG what a difference, they had 95% of the first turn in Goodyear's but maintained the same level of grip forever and would not wear out as easily and drove each set for over 2 years only switching back to front every few weeks. That being said they weren't as good as the Yokohama or Bridgestone in the wet and I tended to slide a bit more, but it was no problem for me as over here it's raining rarely so my primary focus was in hot dry weather. But yes those goodyear's on my car and weather were absolute crap. A disclaimer this was in the early to mid 2000's so what goes on now I have no idea, I have since stopped racing and street racing.
Great valuable video. They all are, but this one even more so. What I'd also like to know - _even more than what was shown_ - is which tires can change lanes on a wet road in an emergency move without coming loose. And also, there's wet, and then there's wet. I wish traction tests did an entire range of wetness levels.
Then they couldn't have hidden the fact that the Michelin aren't the best bang for the buck. At the Michelin testing grounds. Using Michelin's tire-wear devices. Manned by michelin staff. Down to the very accurate "wear bar".
+John Jones well I do agree it is a bit fishy with how well the Michelins performed, what bothers me more so is the choice of tires selected some of the "expensive" tires were not really all that expensive likewise for the cheap ones.
I know that the video isn't about tire life but I want to point out something along that line. My wife's 2010 Equinox came with Michelin's. Last fall treads on the original tires were worn to the point where they needed to be replaced. They had 70,000 miles on them. This test suggests that they would have excellent stopping and handling (assuming all models of Michelin behave similarly). I'm glad to know that because 70K on a set is really good. I replaced the originals with more Michelins.
Jonathan Samet Wow dude, calm done. I know that real dry nitrogen only has benefits for racing like Nascar and Formula where you wouldn't want the tire pressure to increase too much cause it could cause the tire to pop or increase the rolling resistance. The nitrogen you can get at tire shops could contain some moisture due to unproperly maintained machines or just cheap equipment.
I went to the study to find an answer to the question... were they using ABS? TLDR: I couldn't find the answer. They used ABS stops to prep (or burnish as they word it) the track. But make no claim one way or the other about using ABS in the actual stopping tests. What I did find however is some things that make me question the usefulness of this study. They do mention their method for the p value and throwing out outliers. But they do not offer that data so I can decide for myself what should be considered an outlier. They applied a LINEAR correction to all the numbers. So on top of having an average (of only 9 samples), with unknown data discarded from the average calculation, each number was moved unfairly with relation to the others. A tire with a higher number having a linear subtraction has a much lower apparent benefit from that subtraction in the end than a tire that started with a lower number and received the same linear subtraction. (your Michelin tires that you admit you are happy to see do well in this study, reinforcing your previous belief, received the most 'help' from this method of linear correction.) As presented, this test doesn't even seem useful for answering the question, "how well do these tires perform on these specific vehicles under this specific wet road condition?". Any opinion extrapolated from this about the tires under different conditions, would be just guessing... and not even the educated kind. Anyway, this all started because I wanted to point out that if they used ABS, the whole test is flawed. If ABS is enabled, the only thing you could say they are testing is, how well the abs is tuned for the specific tire. Stopping distance is largely not the tires fault if ABS is on. If you have differences, it's only because the ABS is doing a worse or better job at managing its pid values in response to the tires grip. You could have a tire with BETTER traction result in a worse stopping distance because the ABS just sucks.
But if it is the same ABS system for the same 6 tires on each vehicle, it is not a variable, it's a constant. I don't know if they did this, but i would guess that they've stopped the car more than once to get the best result in stopping distance, and that would minimize the effect of the ABS and the force applied by the driver in each scenario. Added to that. The results are all available in just plain data.. For example, feet of distance. So you can just look at the numbers and realize that while the michelins did perform better, going with some of the cheapest isn't maybe a bad choice either. Plus, of course you can't rely on thins particular study to get a definite answer to wich is the better brand or who knows what. You're probably the doorman in Goodyear jajaj
Good one. I think most who pay attention to their driving and cars know this intuitively if they have a little experience. The difference in tire performance is only at the extreme end of the envelope, a place most of us don't go even in emergencies. But it is very nice to have actual data to back up a seat of the pants knowledge.
Excellent video bringing us up to speed with AAA's test data, however as some others may have already noted, their method of "randomly" selecting the tires seems suspect... beyond what my inner skeptic would have kicked in. I find it odd that the Michelin tires were what they offer as their premium model, whereas I have a feeling the other brand tires were not their top-shelf gear. As you even pointed out, the Goodyear tires tested were arguably grouped in the high price category, despite the fact they were closer in price to the low price category. And because they tested only three sets in each price group, that seemingly small error can skew the results significantly. It'd be interesting to see how the results look if the Goodyear data were ignored. But, I am pleased to see that they were willing to test tires in the worn condition, since as you pointed out is a rare find in published results. I am actually surprised that this isn't something done by the NHTSA, but as is usually the case, the need for this data is more likely driven by consumer need rather than necessary for safety and thus hasn't been within their scope. I just hope that more people can show an interest in this data to have AAA or any other third party do their own testing on a wider variety of tires to better represent any correlation between cost and performance. Believing that a sample of 3 has any statistical significance is just not good.
So here's the problem I have now. We have seen here that neither price nor new performance are predictors of worn performance. And you told us that most reviews don't report worn performance. Assuming that tires spend most of their life closer to worn performance rather than new performance, the conclusion I have to draw is that you might as well buy cheap tires but only use them as long as they're new. Which isn't really an economical or ecological solution. So what should we do? Edit: I'll watch some of your other videos on tires and see if I find some answers there. BTW, your videos are seriously great stuff.
A couple of reasons that the Michelin Premier A/S tires do so well is 1) the compounds they use to make the tires keep them "softer" and thus giving better grip. 2) the sipes are cut to the depth of the wear-bars which provides grip thru the life of the tire.
goodyear and pirelli are 2 tire brands i would NEVER buy... not worth the money.... goodyear is still riding on nascars coat tail... sad. slicks take next to no R&D to design, hence why they are all the same
Goodyears are great tyres IMO! :) I was very happy with both the Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2 and the Eagle F1 Directional 5. They have a very nice progressive feel.
For those who somehow managed to watch a 26 minute video about tires (bless you, you make this channel go round!), and still want more tire information - great news! Here are two other videos you may enjoy (which are both shorter watches).
Why Grip Is More Important Than Power: ua-cam.com/video/S2S6MJt0998/v-deo.html
Why Some Worn Tires Perform Better Than Others: ua-cam.com/video/Xa5i0xvmVSg/v-deo.html
Got a link to that power point presentation you used in the vid?
It's good stuff man. For car and engineering nerds this is brain food.
I loved this video, it has so much useful and relevant information about the different tires, brands and designs! I was shocked to see that in comparison to the really expensive tires, the relatively cheap Kumho tire performed really well on all areas. What I'm wondering now, is if there is information like this, information about worn vs new tire performance for more brands, like Toyo Tires, Falken and Nankang? I'd be very interested to see those as well! Again, loved the video and keep up the good work!
Yes, you are satisfying the tire nerd in me!
Engineering Explained I’m just a bit tyred now, but I made it!
Cheap tires aren’t worth it, expensive tires aren’t worth it, I’ll just stick to my rims. Much lower rolling resistance
Low RR is life. 👌
That train life bro.
Your stopping distance is measured in miles, I suppose
The only benefit of low price tires is the cost per burnout.
Actually, trains do have tires, they're steel rings that get pressed onto the wheel
I've been a tire fanatic since the mid 80's and have read and watched tire reviews for decades. The one major thing that makes AAA's test irrelevant in the worn tire test is artificially inducing wear on the tire. A tire goes through heat cycles and climate temperature changes throughout it's life cycle, all those variables can make a big difference on the performance at the end of it's life cycle.
In the past I've had some tires show signs of cracking and tread separation before the wear bars were near the limit. That would never show up in an artificially induced wear test and could potentially be more dangerous than the reduced stopping distance.
Sorry for the geek tire rant, my wife says I'm insane when it takes me a week of research to pick out tires for our cars lol.
Quite possibly you are a tyre guy. There is a lot to be said of ozone attack, salt solution elixirs, & sunlight. Not to mention the effect of the wearing medium. Florida uses sea shells in their asphalt. So my rule of thumb is Michelin in the south. Everything else in the north. I do run some Michelin and they are the model with the walnut oil. Yes. the Premieres. Cheers.
Only a week? It typically takes me at least a month to figure that out......
@@ckm-mkc My tires are almost new, less than 10000 miles, but I'm already researching. (I win!) But it's mostly because the previous owner put ultra cheap crap on to sell the car.
Not insane mate just care for your family's safety good tires make all the difference..
Yes you are right. This experiment only measure the effect of tread depth and not the longetivity of the tire.
To summarize, the Michelin tires did better in every category, both new and worn, both on the passenger car and truck.
In wet weather conditions.
...At Michelin's test track...
Coincidence?
steve
Good, because you'd be lucky to get 30,000 miles out of a set.
catfishakaAMC how many miles do you expect to get?
How about the claimed warranted mileage? My uncle's 2011 Explorer chewed through a $1100 set of Premier LTXs in 23,000 miles. It's a 55,000 mile warranty tire, and yes his alignment was good. One his second set, he went from 5k mile rotations to 3k miles rotations and made it to almost 26,000 miles. He now has bridgestones, which he doesn't like as much, but hopefully will last. Time will tell.
My 2012 Volvo XC60 came with half worn out Hankook tires on it when I got it used and I had gotten 33,000 out of them when replaced at 3/32. No, I did not buy Michelins.
As an automotive engineering student, I find this video super helpful and good to learn... up to a point I kept stopping at comparison graphs and took down notes. This video took me an hour to watch instead of 20 minutes. Really interesting and excellent video! Keep it up!
wow. I used to work at Discount Tire and I knew that Michelin tires were really long lasting and they never had factory defects as long as i was there but I did not know they also performed that well.
bradman Swag I’m using Bridgestone right now and I love them! Before the Bridgestone I had Firestones (which are the ones that came with the car). But my next tires will be Michelin! I want to see how well they do.
The AZ Sun loves Michelins 🏜🤺
bradman Swag for me they run out fast but they also perform better so I push them more
You can _never_ do too much on tires. The topic sounds boring but once in, its very interesting.
Yeah it's weird when I finished I didnt't even realise it was a 26minute video
drobio 16 min in and I just realized lol, super interesting
doodr absolutely. I throw a connecting rod going 85 miles on the highway, there was some aluminium and steel pieces as well as oil leak so it was a hazard to people following me but as a driver I was able to stop safely using the inertia of the car. I was lucky that the engine didn't seize or otherwise my rear tirea will lock up.
as someone who works in a shop, that sells and installs tires, this is actually a really good video to watch and it actually is pretty interesting.
It's fascinating to see the differences not only in price but also between new and worn tires. The "mechanically worn tires" which I applaud that disclosure, might not legitimately represent a road worn tire with edges scuffed off and hardened tread compounds from repeated heating and cooling over the years. I do realized that there are unlimited variables that could be taken into consideration for tire testing but you've done an excellent job here. Again an outstanding video. This has also confirmed my choice for many years of Michelin tires in all applications. I just have to put in a plug for Michelin. Over many years they have served me very well in all types of midwestern weather and have contributed in my avoiding many traffic "incidents" over the years.
Science has to remove as many variables as possible and compress time for results to be relevant.
A machine that wears all the tires to the same consistency is the only way to get direct comparisons.
That 10ft stopping distance can mean life or parking the car ahead of you in the trunk of the car ahead of it. I sold and installed tires on thousands of vehicles at a big box club store, the Michelin tires always lasted longer, had the best reputation, had the best customer satisfaction, lasted closer to the mileage warranty and in my opinion, performed better than ANY other A/S tire made.
The extra $100-$200 a set is entirely worth it to me. Save the others for drifting/track and run the best possible tire you can afford on the road. Best does not always mean most expensive either. DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH FOR YOUR EXACT TIRE SIZE AND DESIRED APPLICATION.
I agree with your mentality, I definitely think it's worth paying extra as long as the tire performs better (not to mention tire life, warranty, dry performance, etc).
I do agree with you as well with Michelin performance and customer satisfaction because I observed the same thing when I worked on tires for three years.
I worked at a dealership so I installed/inspected plenty of tires to know you are right. Michelin tires did always last longer. Some of them lasted so long they had dry rot before they were anywhere near the tread bar. Granted this is more of a maintenance thing, but lasting forever doesn't mean they are always the best.
Michelin tires performed great. However, fire those who simply cannot afford them, the Hankook tires are a great choice, outperform their price.
That is where your eyes and reflexes come in. If you are driving sane and keeping safe distances you can make that 10 feet up easily.
Great explaining at 72 my Dad taught me about tires. I try to pass information along all these years.The most important thing is distancing between your car and the one in front of you.
It would be interesting to know how much artificial "wearing" the tires took relatively. Longevity is part of the price quality equation.
yup, that is a big factor like take the pirelli vs the michelin the pirelli may keep new performance longer before having a sharp decline towards the end of its life while the michelin may have a more linear loss of grip. no way to know that based off this test.
**edit also doing wet only testing seems like a mistake as well.
Absolutely. The question that comes to my mind is that did they wear them down the same "driving distance" or to the same "worn out leve" (which comes after a different distance)
This is what the study says: "All tires were artificially worn using Michelin North America, Inc. equipment, under the
supervision of and/or close inspection by AAA researchers. The tread profile of all tires was precisely
measured by a laser scanner and the profile data was then input into a specialized buffing machine
that automatically buffed the tire surface with an abrasive disk that provides a surface finish
representative of actual road-wear. The machine was manually operated for the final buffing stage. All
tires were buffed to a uniform tread depth of 4/32” and prepared in a manner consistent with ASTM F-
1046-01 [4]. This standard for preparing worn tires was utilized because it ensures all tires are worn in
the same manner. This would not be possible with actual road-wear."
@@kiviknuuti1538 In real world the wear is caused during a long period of time which causes the rubber to harden. As a result, the weared down tires are even worse than in this test in real world.
I used to always get cheaper tires. I then spent the money on top of the line Michelins and it was well worth it. They are amazing and last 3 times as long as my cheaper tires.
I like BF GOODRICH tires bc they're the best ...i never get a nail on the tires at all. I used Bridgestone tires and i got nails often ... also, michelins, too. if you have a chance, try BF GOODRICH tires ..I THINK THEY'RE nail-free or something but NEVER get one if i use BF tires...... if u look at the tires... pick the one that has 3 trends on the TRIES .. dont pick 4-5 trends on the tires bc they get nails easily .. PICK 3 TRENDS on the tries only .. my BF GOODRICH got only 3 TRENDS on the tires and never get a single nail
Next time you're in the UK and have some free time, we should definitely sit down to have a geek out about tyres. I know the car throttle guys really well, perhaps we could meet there?
TR, EE and CT... Better crossover then Avengers: Infinity Wars
Sounds good!
Please do! I'm a subscriber to both channels, and I'd love to see your (collective) thoughts on the Michelin Cross Climates and everything else Tyre :D
I always use Tyre Reviews for see the reviews of tires.. there is a lot of tires.. now, i use kumho ecsta Hs51... 😘
I knew you'd be in the comments section, always use your website before buying a new set of tyres :)
I live in Michigan and the year I decided to STOP using All-Season tires year round and go with a set of Blizzak WS-70/80 snow tires in the winter and a set of Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Positions in the summer was the year everything changed for the better. DITCH THE ALL-SEASONS IN THE SNOW - keep the All-Seasons for wet/dry in the summer only. You can't even begin to understand how extremely superior a modern snow tire is in the winter to an all-season tire in the winter. It's like not even having snow on the ground, that's nearly how well the Bridgestone Blizzak WS-70/80 series works when you put a set on ALL four wheels (regardless of FWD, RWD, 4WD).
NorthernChev Interestingly, I went to NOKIAN HAKKAIPALETAS STUDS WINTER, AND SUV NOKIAN SUMMER: been smart here in East HELENA MT!!! FRONT DRIVE Journey...
Q: Which manufacturer makes the most tyres?
A: LEGO
A: Hotwheels
@@yupyup4209 Matchbox
Tonka
Lego makes real tyres, not plastic ones.
Tamiya
I have to respect you for avoiding a clickbait title like "are expensive tires worth it?" Or "price Vs value in tires".
You gave a clear indication in the title. Thumbs up!
I wish a Continental models were chosen. Really wonder how they compare.
They are just bought a couple of Continental 6 wish they had that on there
Same would have like to see those and general altimax or similar.
Go to Tirerack,com they test new tires.
Continental's are noisier and not quite as good as the Michelins for grip in my experience
Nokian has some nice grippy zLines.
I love how thorough this channel gets, displaying the data itself, and explaining how he is interpreting said data and why.
The Michelin Premier worn stopping distance is impressive imo.....
Allan Ø.N. they better do, check how thick they come new and check some review on how fast they were. I do like Michelin defender and x-ice but just not that exact tire.
TBH i don't know that specific model either.. I have however only had good experience with Michelin tyres for my cars.. I do not in any regard regret switching from Goodyear F1 to Michelin Pilot Sport 4 on my BMW 3-series (tbh the ride on the F1s were subjectively more comfortable and had different and a bit less intrusive road noise... but they wore out very fast and had a poor directional stabilty imo).. In the past I have had Michelin Energy tyres running more than 80.0000 kms and still going strong (street legit)...
It's one of their selling points. The grooves are tapered so they widen as the tread wears down. They're also quiet. I'm on my second set of Premier's. I spent a lot of time comparison shopping the 2nd time around but came back to the same tire.
BobGeogeo I kept coming back to the Premier as well. Quite happy with them so far.
I agree but I wish they had added some data about how quickly the tires wear. I am very pleased so far with my pilot super sports. I think we chose well with Michelin.
Jason, thank you for taking the time to do this review. I watched this video when you released it and now I that am in the process of buying tires, I have gone back and reviewed your video. I also went to AAA and got the actual report.
This video and the report by AAA has been very helpful to me in my tire purchasing decision.
Thank you for your honesty and integrity in all your videos.
I have had Pirelli's for a while and feel like they're great when I get a new set, but overtime they just don't hold up. So its nice to see this corroborated by some data. will definitely have to look at michelins next time I need a set.
Even though I barely understand what is going on some of the time, I still watch your videos and try to learn as much as I can. UA-cam channels like this are why I am so grateful for you and UA-cam. You are one iteration of Bill Nye from my childhood lol
To really get a good correlation they should have run much more than 6 tires, although I imagine it came down to cost for doing the study. Statistically you can't do all that much with 6 samples though, you need more like 30 to get good statistics.
very true, and while it is not the point to this test how quickly said tires become worn down is another factor in measuring if the tire is worth it.
not true. there are lots of statistical tests out there that can easily compensate for small sample sizes.
they also probably did multiple runs of each tire
It's not really 6 samples though, its 24 because each car has 4 tires, so the results of the stopping distances are an amalgamation of those 4.
For what they are trying to test I don't think running multiple versions of the same tire actually helps, beyond reducing the uncertainty in the values for that particular tire. The same is true for running the tests multiple times. And actually you're definitely only getting one data point between four tires, so that fact doesn't help at all. They're trying to look at the correlation between price and performance for all tires, so their samples need to be different tires at different price points.
Yes, there are valid tests to can do for small sample sizes, but they still aren't as reliable as having larger samples. Thats why we have the replication crisis in psychology. Everyone uses as few samples as possible and only publishes significant positive results, so almost every result is actually just a statistical artifact.
Very well critically evaluated. I wouldn't expect any less from this channel. Thanks Jason.
Vimal Patel I agree. Thank you Jason!
so basically it looks like michellian makes the better tires
This is essentially an un-intended commercial for Michelin. I'll definitely be buying Michelin's the next time I need to replace my tires.
This is one set of tests, testing only one facet of a tire (wet performance), done at a facility Michellian has 24/7 access to. So it's not really a surprise they did well.
It doesn't tell you how well they might perform: on a temperate day, on a high temp dry day, on a gravel road, or very low temperatures. These are all conditions that an "all season" tire may face. You may find some very different results.
Not saying the Michellians are bad; I've got some on my FoST. Keep an open mind, though.
If you look at TireRack results, generally speaking, Michelin do very well in overall ranking across various different tire sizes and uses. So, this isn't a one off result, this just adds another data point for Michelin being top tier.
With the amount of R&D they put into tire manufacturing they really do.
They have the worst sidewalls cracks and dry rots. Resulting in only the 3rd year.
One of your best videos yet. The underlying point is really that if your tires are worn, REPLACE THEM FOR your safety and the safety of others.
tl;dr: we're buying Michelin tires boys
Ian Holmquist yes, exactly. I trust EE with mine and my family's life
Most Michelins are known for soft sidewalls and vague steering feel. :(
i bought a set of nexen snow tires last year and they were great, even during spring they still drive good with little noise while procrastinated on buying summer tires.
TL:DR
Nexen tires are the fine wine of cheap tires.
Kumho are the Michelin of cheap tires.
If you're going to spend a lot on tires, spend all the money and get Michelin tires.
kumhos are actually surprisingly good
its a nice way to describe it..
It’s refreshing to watch such substantive, data driven content in this day an age. Great video!
Makes me double happy to have put PS4 on my car last year. I feel like they perform really well in real life, too; especially in the wet, they are miles ahead of the Bridgestones the car wore before.
Michelin for on road tires, BFG for off road tires. That's all you need to know.
A big part of tire wear is heat cycling. I think they should have included that. Also did they break in the new tires?
Kudos to AAA and to you too for bringing this type of information to light! I am a bit of a nerd about tyres, so this was a super exciting and interesting video.
I'd love to see all tyres tested in this way in the future, but also in dry grip because with cheaper tyres the tread area expands as the grooves are sloped.
Anyway, thank you again for this, I can't wait for this to become the industry standard on tyre tests.
When in doubt run Michelin‘s lol When I bought my legacy with the flat six it came with Bridgestone Trunza El400 what a horrible tire for the car and I know the manufacture save a lot of money on them I can understand that, yes I switch to Michelin pilot sport AS 3+ literally transformed the handling in my car it was like a different car!
I believe pretty much all the top teams in yesterday's Le Mans were running Michelins.
all LMP1s that finished the race used Michelin
Yeah, that's a pretty good policy. I always recommend Michelin tires to people when they ask me what they should get. AS3+ is a really great tire
My Forester came with a set of Bridgestone Dueler's, I used them for 10,000KM then swapped them out for Michelin Premier A/S's. Bridgestone's are for winter.
Yup, went from contiprocontact to Pilot Sport A/S 3+ and the difference is mindboggling. Also alot more quiet.
Got a used set of 18” wheels with Pilot A/S 3 tires. Unbelievable responsiveness. Night and day difference far beyond what I thought was possible. Can’t imagine having anything else in the future.
In short, price doesn't matter. Brand does.
Shame there was no metric to see how fast the tyres would wear down, if you only get 6000 miles from one but 10000 from another for example that would have a massive impact on value.
Indeed, I was tempted to buy Dunlop sport maxx rt2 as they're superb for grip and low road noise but I was put off them when advised they're made of cheese and only last 5,000 miles.....
Once I've got a set of Michelin Pilot Sport 3 (ps4 not available for my car nor rim) or equivalent, I can't go back to nor go for cheap tyres! Performance and safety is my priority.
Ian Holmquist bs! Bridgestone Potenza RE003 Adrenaline is! Less treadwear rating, inferior traction rating and YET more expensive than my set of Michelins! More over there is hardly any understeer nor oversteer in wet weather with my Pilot Sport 3!
@@t8polestarcyan22 Potenza has much better feel. It has proper stiff sidewalls as expected in a sports category tyre.
@@TassieLorenzo Yeah and poor tyre grip really helps huh? That's why Michelin transformed my wobbly Estate car into a sharp handling machine.
Another AWESOME video, Jason! There's so much to tyres than the average guy realizes - compound chemistry at the molecular level, reinforcement, wall thickness, pattern, inflation pressure, temperature and much more. Motorcyclists (like me) have seen arguably even more dramatic changes in tyre ability since the 1980's and feel tyre properties _very_ directly. More tyre videos please!
All the best, Rob
Michelin GOAT tire company
Moneymyke357 at the Michelin test facility.......
Verified at an unrelated 3rd party facility................
I live in NY state a few miles from the end of the Massachusetts turnpike and have been driving here for 30+ years. We can get just about any kind of weather you can shake a stick at from -10F to 100F . I've had Michelin Defender LTX M/S's on my 2010 4WD Tacoma TRD Off Road for almost three years now and love them ! These really are the best preforming all season tires I have ever owned ! If your truck is 4WD and you don't do serious off-roading or treacherous snow plowing, these may be the one tire option for you ! 2WD's that have to handle un-plowed roads, steep slippery hills or some off-roading will probably need a more condition specific tire, and a Differential locker wouldn't hurt either!
Tires are amazing! I don't think we can ever have enough videos on tires.
Just want to say. I really appreciate your content. Its both helpful and entertaining. Thank you.
Cool test data. I'll definitely be purchasing the Michelin LTX M/S for my AWD Highlander.
I purchased a set of “Ironman” tires for my 2004 Dodge 5.7 Durango and they’ve been awesome !! Had for almost a year and it’s my daily driver. Kenda makes good tires as well for vehicles and motorcycles.
I would love to see this study done in dry conditions, we don't get much rain where I live.
I work for AAA and love that you are doing a video on this, very detailed and enlightening to know of different brands performance, well done Jason!!
I think Toyota needs to go back to the drawing board and rethink their braking. That small light car stopped a lot slower and took a lot more distance to stop than the huge and heavy F-150. Not a Ford fan but I will give them props for their ability to stop that short and fast.
Bad Drivers of NW Montana the laws of physics still apply here. You can pretty much guarantee that both cars are engaging the ABS system when braking, meaning that for both the F150 and Camry, the tires are the limiting factor, not the braking system. For the F150 there is more downward force on the tires since it’s heavier than the Camry. This equates to more friction between the tire and road which could have contributed to the better braking performance.
nagonzo counterpoint: the car has narrower tires than the truck, which is better for "bad" surfaces like rain and snow. Even though the truck is heavier, the contact patch is bigger so it probably sinks down about the same as the car. Imagine standing in sand barefoot, and them standing in sand on a board.
Bad Drivers of NW Montana weight of the truck plays a huge factor in why it can stop so quickly in the rain. If you did these same test on dry ground you’d see that the camrys stopping distance would be cut down way more than the trucks.
Ian Holmquist that is true because each time the tire lock up, you lose distance. As much as I hate ABS, it is safer to counter the fact that the tendency of our brain to brake harder when we want to stop faster.
Usually bigger, heavier and faster cars have better brakes to cope with braking at the high speeds they are designed to go up to, downhill. As the camry doesn't have the sheer mass of an F150 it doesn't need much brake power to stop at speed on an incline. It's also not what you'd call a performance vehicle, so you'd expect things to be a bit weedier compared to a brute like the f150. Better comparing to cars in it's own class.
I would like another tire video! I have recently been choosing directional tires for my vehicles. I want terrific grip and a quiet tire. My mechanic advised against directional High Performance tires due to my disdain for loud tires. Is quite ride truly a drawback to directional tires? Are directional tires more likely to get "chopped" during regular driving making them much louder? If you have a chopped tire, will a healthy burnout smooth it out and quite it down? So many questions and I believe you are the man with the answers!
You know the professor is legit when he opens with "I know this looks boring af"
Working in the NVH field, I was a little disappointed about not covering the NVH part. We are currently perform at our lab Tire noise tests provided by a lot of tire companies for a car manufacturer which want to compare tires, and these little differences, even though it doesn't subjectively emerge, is quite a big deal because some of these good tires are not chosen by the car manufacturer because of a quite low noise limit. And it is actually worth to mention that above 50 km/h, the interior noise in cruise speed is mainly tire noise and not the engine.
But very cool to see the skid pad tests, my colleagues from this field will enjoy that =)
Watching EE on Father's Day like
Happy Father's Day! Is that you dad?
Engineering Explained I am your father
😂
Great study performed by AAA. Excellent and easy to understand analysis provided by EE. Appreciate this. Now only if AAA will perform the same study on summer performance tires...
They need a wear rating. If you buy the more expensive tire but it lasts twice as long before it gets to 4/32, that makes a huge difference.
Mr. Presenter, you talk in such a scientific but still easy to understand way. Thanks.
In summary, if you're buying an expensive tire buy Michelin. If cheap, buy Korean, either Kumho, Nexen or Hankook. ;)
Giant Leap
Nice you saved 100 dollars but you could not stop in time and killer grandma
Seriously Hankook is right up there especially with their new Concept tire.
Good sums up! Thnx!
I'm coming back to this video with a few years of trying tires. My test cars are an Audi A6 and a Subaru WRX STI, both protuned at 480-490 hp. The best tires I've ever had, by a huge margin, and with input from a 1000+ person drivers club:
- Michelin Pilot Super Sports for summer. They have such amazing grip that they absolutely fixed understeer in the A6. They are also insane in the rain. They don't even hydroplane when other tires I had would 100%. They do wear down fast though; about 2.5 summers for the A6 (2.06 tons though) and 3 summers for the WRX STI (1.6 tons). (I'm excited to try the Pilot Sport 4S, which is the newer version). These tires are really helped with the 0-60 times. Got 3.9s with the STI and 4.1 with the A6, about a 0.2-0.3s improvement in both cars, without any squealing, compared to factory tires! As these age also look for drying and cracks between the sidewall and the tread.
- Hakapeliitta R2 for winter. They are insanely good and they last 4-5 winters! They are so good, that I even drove two rallycross stages with my Subaru on ice and snow with them, and they did so well. These age really well. With both cars, I was also able to climb insane hills, and be just fine, in situations where other vehicles with winter tires were getting stuck.
I wanted to put in my 2 cents after a few years of daily driving, on track, rallycross, and commuting. I'm confident I found the best tires, except maybe the Pilot 4S might be better.
The cool thing is that both summer and winter tires behaved and aged about the same in both cars.
They are expensive though; 4 sets of tires (because 2 cars) were around ten grand Canadian!! Now I have one car left, and looking for jobs due to COVID.. Sigh
Long story short:
the most expensive tires perform best
and the cheapest tires perform worst.
In between not so clear.
Ian Holmquist
Uhh, he is just citing the AAA report.
I can back up the findings about the Pirelli Cinturatos, mine stink in the wet and are becoming absolutely horrible as they're wearing down. I'm really looking forward to getting dedicated sets of winter and summer tires.
I'm tired of these videos. I get it, I made a bad decision cutting corners on tires. Stop rubber-ing it in. Lol, just messing. This video was good ... year.
Ray Chiu HAAAA
Nice tirade, I enjoyed the lack of retreading.
Did you watch this video just for the pun of it?
Booooooo
Would have been a valuable contribution if you tabulated the material/tire properties for each manufacturer along with the AAA results. This would help in tire selection for those brands not included in the study. Thank you for what you did. Really enjoy your channel and keep up the good work.
Interested to know your thoughts on the 'artificial' wearing of the tires. Certainly this improves consistency for the tests but doesn't factor in things like sidewall breakdown or aging of the rubber.
Thanks for the link. This still only proves to me that michlin is still the best brand I can get for my wifes truck. Now just need a summer only tire study for my car. Arizona doesn't get rain or snow so a/s is not a limiting factor here.
Indy firehawk 500... call it aday best bang for buck summer tire.
alex moore fully agree
SubZero I can't break traction on them with my Brz and I'm making above 40hp stock, my brother has a 2013 mustang GT and even he has a difficult time breaking traction.
I have worn these sons of b** on my turbocharged nb miata and they still won't brake traction under first gear full throttle. Understandably, they seem to lose grip on the wet due to lack of tread.
nice1149ss nice!!!! Trying to convince my gf to buy a 2018 RF
alex moore let her drive one on a curvy road and that should do all the convincing
an excellent explanation ... you change the game rules.
this study can help manufacturers to develop a better generation of tires.
I've really enjoy it.
thank you so much.
You should do an Ultra High Performance All Season video.
This analysis seems very incomplete without any data points around tire life. The cheaper tire may more or less match the expensive tire in overall stopping/lateral performance both new and worn, but you can't prove/disprove value without considering how well the tire resists wear.
All other factors being essentially equal, as this study suggests, if a tire costs 30% more, but wears 50% slower, it would be the better value. Without data on wear, you can't really say if expensive tires are worth it. This study certainly proves the need for analysis on tire life, as the tires all performed withing a pretty small deviation and value is not going to be easily derived there.
Love the channel, been a long time follower. This was great analysis - it just need another dimension of data to be "complete" in my opinion. Keep up the good work!
What is not factored in is wear economics; how many miles do you get out of that tire for the money? This might also make the cheaper options less attractive.
I attended a New Owner class at a car dealership. The shop Foreman said “Our cars come with two brands of tires, Goodyear and Michelin. We’ve never had a Goodyear tire failure that was Goodyear’s “fault”. We’ve never had a Michelin tire fail; period.” My experience (driving for 50+ years) has been the same. And OEM installed Goodyear tires have lasted about 40,000 miles. OEM B. F. Goodrich tires went about 80,000 miles. I got 100,000 miles on Michelin replacement tires. I liked driving on the Michelins. I’m enjoying some “stud-less snow tires” year round, on my 300,000+ mile minivan. They work well on snow and ice too. Wish I’d had them when I lived in Alaska.
Good gob Engineering Explained keep it up.
First off, wanna say love this channel. Subscribed and watch a lot. I replaced the crappy entry level Fierce Instinct 'performance' tires that came on my Golf Sportwagon with Goodyear Eagle F1 asymmetric A/S. A vast improvement in every way. Wet/dry grip, handling, better ride quality (by a large amount) and lower noise. They even did ok in light snow. The original tires were underivable in any amount of snow. I'm running 18x225 btw. Even though this is basically an econobox, it has terrific handling & I like to push it pretty hard. Maybe a bit too much, as got a speeding ticket on way home from work. Originally wanted Michelin Pilot Sport summers, but decided I'm too cheap and lazy to run two sets. I got the Eagles because they were $200 less a set than the Michelin Pilot A/S. I have zero regrets. These are fantastic tires.
$600 for a set plus $50 install is a lot of money in my book, but I think well worth it. I don't drive a lot, so these will probable last life of the car.
The new ps4s are most definitely worth the price tag. Literally amazing
Yep, there are definitely expensive tires that also offer major improvements in performance. But as this study shows, sometimes price and performance don't actually correlate, which is unfortunate. Important to do your research on the individual tires you're looking at buying.
Joel Rogers Been looking at new tyres for my Honda, it's a choice between PS4's and another, looks like I'm getting some Michelins
I prefer Xbox ones
@@EngineeringExplained agreed with u. Many tires nowadays including Michelin PS4 and PS4S have only 1 sidewall ply (compare with older PS3 with 2 plies), due to Michelin needs to comply with the R117 regulations in order to meet the S2WR2 requirement. These softer sidewalls resulted too much flex, and both sidewall and shoulder damaged in 15 laps on track. Testing was done based on a Mercedes CLA45 , Size 235/35 R19. Hot Tire pressure: 41PSI. Camber: OE Spec F: -2 degree, R: - 1 degree. Toe: 0
@@YeEvlL Thanks for the information!
I swapped just the front pair on a Focus 1.5 ecoboost from summer to all season and for the weather here in the UK the slight bit of road noise was well worth the trade for such a grip increase when braking or cornering. It was about the same as swapping a sway bar and bushes. For a FWD car I was just too cheap to upgrade the rears.
I guess the biggest takeaway is, buy Michelin??
Not necessarily. We had a set of 60k mile Michelins only last 8k miles on our 02 Suburban. The tire shop found no alignment problems with the vehicle. Hoping they will honor their warranty. Most Michelin tires are fantastic, but not all :(
Well you could conclude that it's better to buy cheap and change them more often. Cheap new was better than expensive worn in most if not all of the tests.
Michelins suck...they paid for the study and it shows...ive had the displeasure of using those tires about 6 times on vehicles i purchased and they always were terrible...they do make a decent truck tire though they call them something else
You need more tin-foil on that hat of yours.
Did they honor the warranty?
I switched to Premiers on my 2007 Corolla, it's night and day compared to the Pirelli P4s it had before. With no ABS or traction control, I wanted the best all season I could find. All of the traction loss under acceleration is gone. Braking and cornering are excellent. Best of all, they seem to perform about as well in the rain. The car doesn't feel like a deathtrap anymore. Cost around $500 with some Costco incentives. I feel a little more validated in my investment after seeing this study, thanks!
A 40% plus difference at 4/32 strikes me as almost unacceptable from an engineering standpoint... 4/32 is double the legal limit is most states.
I'm disappointed the AAA tire wearing procedure wasn't described more fully. Did it emulate heat cycling a tire experiences over 40,000 miles? Does the heat cycling by itself change tire grip in the wet? Anyone who runs competition tires can tell you about heat cycling and how it degrades grip.
Bruce Hearn excellent questions
smokesgtp
You need to recheck you facts I did and your wrong
@@brucehearn2621 the AAA PDF explains it better. It's a machine that uses an abrasive disk. It's not heat cycled and does not account for UV either.
I'm glad I finally stumbled across this video. My Mustang had Pirelli OEM tires and my F-150 had Goodyear OEM tires. I put another set of OEM tires on each car before I put Michelins on both vehicles. I always thought the difference was remarkable, but here's the hard data as to why. Michelin really does make a good product.
TL;DR buy michelin tires.
Nokian
Excellent information! A suggestion for the future would be the inflation pressures of tires. There is a very large amount of opinion on this, especially in the RV crowd. Many say to inflate to what the pressure embossed on the tire is. Others say to reduce it to 90% of that. Though on a brand new rig, the recommended inflation pressure is provided on a label on the driver's side door panel, there is still confusion. Especially when tires are replaced with non-OEM tires.
My reason for this suggestion is regarding safety. Where there may be many of the tire failures are due to incorrect operating inflation pressure.
Jason the type of guy to read ALL the Terms and Conditions. ;)
I have Michelin Premier A/S 91V tires on my Corolla. I was downtown, approaching an intersection, travelling in the right lane at 25 mph. An Audi came from the right and went through the red light. There were 3 adults and two children in my car. I had the combined distance of the crosswalk and one lane to stop in order to avoid hitting the Audi. I stopped and missed him by 6 inches. The Audi flew past my bumper and slammed into a car in the left lane. The Michelin Premiers saved me, my car and the passengers. No other tire would have worked. When tire salesmen try to sell me something else, it's a non-starter. I say "OK uh huh, uh huh, give me the Michelins".
You have just confirmed what I knew since I was 20 something :P STAY AWAY FROM GOODYEAR haha.
Goodyear tyres have good feel, especially the UHP summer tyres. No need to avoid them IMO. I think you can buy the Eagle F1 series with confidence, be it the Asymmetric 5, Super Sport or the regular Sport. :)
@@TassieLorenzo I don't have extensive experience with Goodyear tyres, but i had one set that was supposed to be "sport tyres" the eagle F1 and they were absolute trash at least in the weather conditions in Cyprus. In the first turn or two it would offer amazing grip and then fall off a cliff as if I was riding on marshmallows, I quickly switched (after a week) to Bridgestones and then Yokohama when they needed change after a few months, I was going through tyres and brake pads faster than homer simpson goes through donuts) which were more consistent but when I switched to Pirelli Drago and OMG what a difference, they had 95% of the first turn in Goodyear's but maintained the same level of grip forever and would not wear out as easily and drove each set for over 2 years only switching back to front every few weeks. That being said they weren't as good as the Yokohama or Bridgestone in the wet and I tended to slide a bit more, but it was no problem for me as over here it's raining rarely so my primary focus was in hot dry weather. But yes those goodyear's on my car and weather were absolute crap. A disclaimer this was in the early to mid 2000's so what goes on now I have no idea, I have since stopped racing and street racing.
Great valuable video. They all are, but this one even more so.
What I'd also like to know - _even more than what was shown_ - is which tires can change lanes on a wet road in an emergency move without coming loose.
And also, there's wet, and then there's wet. I wish traction tests did an entire range of wetness levels.
But the skid pad results here are very useful.
Good thing tires for my frs are only $60
That's awesome!
Federal? Sumitomo? I'm considering a classic miata that's already been tuned as an autocross toy because the tires and gas would be insanely cheap.
buy Michelins
My ATR-K will turn 28MPH in 95* bends. 50$
What do you get.... NANKANG SOPRT TURISMOs
AAA should have plotted distances vs. price...
Then they couldn't have hidden the fact that the Michelin aren't the best bang for the buck. At the Michelin testing grounds. Using Michelin's tire-wear devices. Manned by michelin staff. Down to the very accurate "wear bar".
+John Jones well I do agree it is a bit fishy with how well the Michelins performed, what bothers me more so is the choice of tires selected some of the "expensive" tires were not really all that expensive likewise for the cheap ones.
John Jones people who find tires interesting like me lol
I know that the video isn't about tire life but I want to point out something along that line. My wife's 2010 Equinox came with Michelin's. Last fall treads on the original tires were worn to the point where they needed to be replaced. They had 70,000 miles on them. This test suggests that they would have excellent stopping and handling (assuming all models of Michelin behave similarly). I'm glad to know that because 70K on a set is really good. I replaced the originals with more Michelins.
Whats next?
Air vs Nitrogen vs Helium
All-Season vs City vs Bald
Thicc vs Thin
Air vs Airless vs Rim
New vs Used
Fresh vs Repatched
Kiraro The Kitsune thic vs thin lmaoooo
Ian Holmquist ?
Jonathan Samet Wow dude, calm done. I know that real dry nitrogen only has benefits for racing like Nascar and Formula where you wouldn't want the tire pressure to increase too much cause it could cause the tire to pop or increase the rolling resistance. The nitrogen you can get at tire shops could contain some moisture due to unproperly maintained machines or just cheap equipment.
Thiccest
Jonathan Samet ok
this is a nice comparison. At least i can gauge more or less regarding brands and performance. thanks mate!
I went to the study to find an answer to the question... were they using ABS? TLDR: I couldn't find the answer. They used ABS stops to prep (or burnish as they word it) the track. But make no claim one way or the other about using ABS in the actual stopping tests.
What I did find however is some things that make me question the usefulness of this study. They do mention their method for the p value and throwing out outliers. But they do not offer that data so I can decide for myself what should be considered an outlier. They applied a LINEAR correction to all the numbers. So on top of having an average (of only 9 samples), with unknown data discarded from the average calculation, each number was moved unfairly with relation to the others. A tire with a higher number having a linear subtraction has a much lower apparent benefit from that subtraction in the end than a tire that started with a lower number and received the same linear subtraction. (your Michelin tires that you admit you are happy to see do well in this study, reinforcing your previous belief, received the most 'help' from this method of linear correction.)
As presented, this test doesn't even seem useful for answering the question, "how well do these tires perform on these specific vehicles under this specific wet road condition?". Any opinion extrapolated from this about the tires under different conditions, would be just guessing... and not even the educated kind.
Anyway, this all started because I wanted to point out that if they used ABS, the whole test is flawed. If ABS is enabled, the only thing you could say they are testing is, how well the abs is tuned for the specific tire. Stopping distance is largely not the tires fault if ABS is on. If you have differences, it's only because the ABS is doing a worse or better job at managing its pid values in response to the tires grip. You could have a tire with BETTER traction result in a worse stopping distance because the ABS just sucks.
But if it is the same ABS system for the same 6 tires on each vehicle, it is not a variable, it's a constant. I don't know if they did this, but i would guess that they've stopped the car more than once to get the best result in stopping distance, and that would minimize the effect of the ABS and the force applied by the driver in each scenario.
Added to that. The results are all available in just plain data.. For example, feet of distance. So you can just look at the numbers and realize that while the michelins did perform better, going with some of the cheapest isn't maybe a bad choice either. Plus, of course you can't rely on thins particular study to get a definite answer to wich is the better brand or who knows what.
You're probably the doorman in Goodyear jajaj
Good one. I think most who pay attention to their driving and cars know this intuitively if they have a little experience. The difference in tire performance is only at the extreme end of the envelope, a place most of us don't go even in emergencies. But it is very nice to have actual data to back up a seat of the pants knowledge.
Basically, just buy Michelin
Excellent video bringing us up to speed with AAA's test data, however as some others may have already noted, their method of "randomly" selecting the tires seems suspect... beyond what my inner skeptic would have kicked in. I find it odd that the Michelin tires were what they offer as their premium model, whereas I have a feeling the other brand tires were not their top-shelf gear. As you even pointed out, the Goodyear tires tested were arguably grouped in the high price category, despite the fact they were closer in price to the low price category. And because they tested only three sets in each price group, that seemingly small error can skew the results significantly. It'd be interesting to see how the results look if the Goodyear data were ignored.
But, I am pleased to see that they were willing to test tires in the worn condition, since as you pointed out is a rare find in published results. I am actually surprised that this isn't something done by the NHTSA, but as is usually the case, the need for this data is more likely driven by consumer need rather than necessary for safety and thus hasn't been within their scope. I just hope that more people can show an interest in this data to have AAA or any other third party do their own testing on a wider variety of tires to better represent any correlation between cost and performance. Believing that a sample of 3 has any statistical significance is just not good.
And of course ignorant people think just because something is overpriced/expensive means it’s better than the cheaper counterparts.
Sir Brellin
It might be rare but in this case ( TIRES ) the most expensive are the best
So here's the problem I have now.
We have seen here that neither price nor new performance are predictors of worn performance. And you told us that most reviews don't report worn performance.
Assuming that tires spend most of their life closer to worn performance rather than new performance, the conclusion I have to draw is that you might as well buy cheap tires but only use them as long as they're new.
Which isn't really an economical or ecological solution. So what should we do?
Edit: I'll watch some of your other videos on tires and see if I find some answers there. BTW, your videos are seriously great stuff.
Happy Father's Day Catdaddies!
A couple of reasons that the Michelin Premier A/S tires do so well is 1) the compounds they use to make the tires keep them "softer" and thus giving better grip. 2) the sipes are cut to the depth of the wear-bars which provides grip thru the life of the tire.
goodyear and pirelli are 2 tire brands i would NEVER buy... not worth the money.... goodyear is still riding on nascars coat tail... sad. slicks take next to no R&D to design, hence why they are all the same
Goodyears are great tyres IMO! :) I was very happy with both the Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2 and the Eagle F1 Directional 5. They have a very nice progressive feel.
E.E. we know that you are honest, thoroughly informative & explaintive. Could you do the same thing with rating trucks and cars? Top 5 please
HELLLO AND WELCOME!