Biwiring speakers - why it works.. and why it doesn't - includes budget tweekery

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
  • Is biwiring still a 'thing' ??

КОМЕНТАРІ • 94

  • @ReferenceFidelityComponents
    @ReferenceFidelityComponents Рік тому +10

    All I can say as a designer is there’s no benefit to biwiring unless you’re using undersized cable gauge in the first place. There’s even a technical disadvantage when it cones to electrical bridge damping which can technically result in slight (although inaudible) distortion increase. Back emf has nothing to do with it and is not a correct assumption. Like many such things it’s basically an urban myth and marketing gimmick. By the way,I’m not “shouting at you in the comments” I’m talking sense and trying to speak from a standpoint if professional knowledge and have taken the tine and trouble to respond.👍

    • @COLDMKULTRA
      @COLDMKULTRA Рік тому +2

      @Paul C ... Totally correct Sir 👍

  • @petermcconnell466
    @petermcconnell466 7 місяців тому

    Hi phil nice video I tried by wiring and it didn't go very well I couldn't get the power off quick enough so I had done what you said about using wire too bridge the posts and after doing a before and after with my wife as the listener, she said that it definitely sounded better with the wire jumper on si coming from a person that cant really hear stereo I'll take that as proof lol

  • @Synthematix
    @Synthematix 2 місяці тому +2

    Of course its worth it, your halving the cables impedance and separating the drivers frequencies at the amps output, on long lengths of cable of 12ft and over biwiring is the way to go, same principle as adding dropper wires to a model railway, without them the train will slow down after about 20feet therefore you need to push more voltage to make the train run properly, yes model railways run on AC today to carry the digital information to the decoders
    the rule is simple:
    copper cable for bass
    silver cable for treble
    when one cable tries to do everything thats when the problems arise
    silver cable carries high frequencies way more efficiently than copper
    copper cable is pretty hopeless at frequencies above 14khz
    biiring will cut distortion by half, thats its whole purpose.
    oil and water do not mix
    speakers work on AC not DC thats why biwiring works, if it was DC then yes it would be pointless. basically 2 sets of cable doing their job that theyre intended to.
    Its pointless biwiring on mini systems like the denon stuff because their speakers are not biwire compatible as theyre designed to be used no more than 5feet away from the amp, but for long lengths its a definate YES, in any case just do it, speaker cable is cheap
    even on mini systems inside the speakers will be both silver and copper cabling going to the drivers (if its a high quality hifi that is)
    In fact bi-amping is useless and destroys sound quality unless you have 2 finely tuned identical amplifiers with their volume levels and DC offsets set up 100% perfect. bi-amping is a complete pain in the backside and rarely gives good results.

  • @jasonme3557
    @jasonme3557 Рік тому +5

    I think Bi-Amp is the better reality. In my collage days early 90"s I had two Adcom GFA amps. The big 545 and 535 100 watts and 60 watts.
    I had a HK pre-amp and both amps driving a large set of Mission Speakers. The big adcom powered the lows and the 60 did the highs. I was great and a huge difference.
    Loud boy could this go loud and when you only 21-23 in school Loud is good.
    Good time...

  • @kjk1422
    @kjk1422 2 місяці тому +1

    have two pairs of Reference 3 speakers: De Capoi and Veena. This line is crossover- less. They all come with 4 posts for bi wiring.Have tried both with jumpers and bi wire 2 into 4 cable. The bi wire method seems to produce a more holographic sound. For this line stick with bi-wiring IMHO.

  • @bw8827
    @bw8827 Рік тому +8

    Never been a believer of bi-wiring, you're right Phil, it was a fad that people bought into, including me who had TRI-wired Linn Kaber's, at one time. Also, being a cynic, it wouldn't surprise me if deals were done between speaker and cable manufacturers. Any bi-wire speakers I've bought I've always replaced the crappy brass plated links with decent wired links, as you also pointed out. Spending more on a decent single speaker cable will often cost less than a bi-wire cable or two pairs of cables and give superior results. Higher end speaker manufacturers are now thankfully producing only single wire products.

    • @Coneman3
      @Coneman3 Рік тому

      Not a good thing if you want to bi or triamp and go active. Can’t understand super expensive speakers with one set of binding posts.

    • @joepostle3561
      @joepostle3561 6 місяців тому

      Biwire = buy wire

  • @romanvondergoltz8271
    @romanvondergoltz8271 Рік тому +3

    I might be wrong. For bi-wiring to really work as advertised the high and low frequency must be separated already in my amp, before the signal goes out, otherwise it is still sending a full range signal to the tweeter and woofer without any separation. Maybe there a some magic cables capable of doing it - who knows.

    • @rogerwebb7501
      @rogerwebb7501 2 місяці тому

      A common misconception! In fact the highs and lows separate where ever the 'split point' is. In a standard single pair system the full frequency signal current travels along the wires from the amplifier terminals to the speaker terminals and on to the crossover where the signal splits and goes to the tweeter high pass filter and subsequently to the tweeter. Similarly the bass signal current diverges at the split point and goes through the woofer filter to the woofer.
      In a biwire system the split point is taken back from inside the speaker to the amplifier end, so the treble content travels along the wire to the tweeter terminals and the bass content travels along the wire to the woofer terminals onf the loudspeaker.
      This IS how it works....ignore videos that tell you otherwise!!!......and there are plenty made by people who aren't qualified to make them!!!!
      Does biwiring make a difference?.....I don't know!!......but I do know how crossovers work!!!

  • @keithmoriyama5421
    @keithmoriyama5421 5 місяців тому +1

    Even though there is no auditory difference I still bi-wire because I like the connection better. I use 14/4 Canare cable which is really a single cable with internal twisted pairs. The short 10' run makes no difference in resistance but, the whole connection feels more solid on both speaker and amplifier ends, plus I eliminate the joining buss bar.

  • @papabear1417
    @papabear1417 Рік тому +4

    Keeping it simple. That's the thing. Don't fiddle. Enjoy the music and the feeling it gives.

  • @DaveClark-ib6sp
    @DaveClark-ib6sp Місяць тому

    That was like pulling teeth. The reason you bi-amp is for more power. Take Polk RTia9 Towers, for example. If you are running these with the jumpers ON with
    90w/ch they are dull. If you Bi-amp with a proper
    200w P/ch then they really come alive. You can also do that with MONO BLOCKS, which assign the exact amount of demand that each driver requires. It makes a much smoother, more efficient distribution of power. No, you won't see a difference if you are still working with 90w P/ch if the surround backs are assinged with the internal processor. The surround back use so little power that they can drive the highs and high mids on the tower, but that still only leaves a peak of 90 watts to your low mids and sub bass on the towers. Bi-amping will only be noticedable of proper power amps are added from the pre outs of your AVR.

  • @petercelestion7661
    @petercelestion7661 Рік тому +1

    bi-wiring can still benefit in your system, it depends on gauge of cable used and type of loudspeaker used but there can be a difference.
    to expalin it in electrical way do the following experiment use an ac outlet in your house connect a wire on one end and on the other side two incandesent lamps of 50 watts
    Imagine dat these are your low and high drivers (ie bass, tweeter) measure the voltage on these lamps and write it down.
    Now change one lamp (bass driver) and connect it to a hairdryer (1000 watts or more) now measure the voltage again, you will notice a reasonable drop in voltage on both the hair dryer and the incandesent lamp of 50 watts
    Now do the experiment again but this time bi-wire (two sets of cables from the same outlet) and measure again, there is your answer
    Knowing that some kind of loudspeakers can have rather extreme impedances in the bass drivers some even from nominal 8 Ohm to 1 Ohm at certain resonance frequencies therefore bi-wiring can sure make a difference
    For the audio test use low cost cable and play the song dire straits "private investigations starting at 3.55 you have a base line a hi hat and a soft synthesizer at the background
    Play it at some louder level and you will notice a slight drop of the sinthesizer and hi hat.
    Once again redo the experiment and bi-wire the speaker and play it again.

  • @alanclements6240
    @alanclements6240 3 місяці тому

    Hi Phil, I realise this is an older video but I am a recent subscriber and came across this in your back catalogue. Searched for the bi-amping follow-up but couldn't find it. Did you ever actually make that one? Currently driving B&W CM7s with Arcam Alpha 10 integrated (Tweeters) and 10 power (Woofers). Physical size of my plugs dictates speaker 2 connections on the integrated and speaker 1 connections on the power. Interested in your comments regarding some outputs being switched but can't confirm this for the Arcams. Do you think it would be worth me cutting off the plugs (irreversible, which is why I haven't tried it already) to allow different connections - for example Speaker 1 outputs on both? Just purchased a Planar 10 with Aphelion 2 and am awaiting delivery of an Aura. Considering replacing the Arcams with an Aethos - would you think this is an upgrade or just a sideways move? I'm mainly chasing greater detail and spacial cues.

  • @Audiofreak71
    @Audiofreak71 Рік тому +6

    Vandersteen speakers are voiced to be BiWired , you can single wire them but they do not sound right that way , when BiWired they are full sounding.

    • @frankgeeraerts6243
      @frankgeeraerts6243 Рік тому +2

      YOU ARE COMPLETELY RIGHT !!!!!!!!!!!! My speakers were "voiced" for triwire..........one cable totaly flat , no life .........two is different but still not good ....three , the speaker comes alive ......
      there is indead much misunderstanding about it even by the man in this video !

    • @shb8124
      @shb8124 Рік тому +2

      Have you tried just removing any jumper connections? As he rightly points out in the video it's crap jumper connections that make the difference. Ultimately you could connect as many cables as you want but your amp is still seeing exactly the same thing and the signal paths are still all the same, it makes no odds which is why it's not 'a thing' anymore.

    • @Audiofreak71
      @Audiofreak71 Рік тому

      @@shb8124 There are no jumpers that come with Vandersteen speakers there is a barrier strip on all of them where you either Biwire like they’re supposed to be or you add jumpers where in the case of Vandersteen speakers it is not recommended, even says so in the manual. Plus the fact that I have talked face to face with Richard Vandersteen and have discussed this in length and he says so himself that they’re voiced to be BiWired.

    • @shb8124
      @shb8124 Рік тому

      @Audiofreak 71 have tbh 40 odd years of hi-fi and I remember the early days of bi-wiring popularity very well and I've never heard of any manufacturer claiming their products are "voiced" for bi or tri-wiring when it has no genuine electrical validity but ho hum. You're just looking at a simple barrier strip and a point of connection. Think carefully about the signal paths, points of connection and that the signals still shave to pass through the appropriate drive units filters cos it's still a full frequency signal that passes along each wire.

    • @Audiofreak71
      @Audiofreak71 Рік тому +1

      @@shb8124 yes I know exactly the signal path of Vandersteen ‘s , what I am telling you is not from me it’s from Richard Vandersteen himself so believe what you want but in the 40hrs I have been doing this vandersteen’s are the only speakers I profoundly heard a difference from not BiWiring to BiWiring. The truth is in owning and listening not hear say and I’ve accomplished that goal.

  • @DannerPlace
    @DannerPlace Рік тому +1

    My Klipsch Cornwall speakers were bi-wired (woofer and mid/tweeter) with a pair 14 gauge wires, each. Then I converted to single 10 gauge wires. No noticeable change in audio quality at all. Thus, I no longer believe in the benefits of bi-wiring. Dan, in Fort Worth, Texas, USA,

  • @joemalone7385
    @joemalone7385 Місяць тому

    Biwiring is snake oil nonsense and provably ridiculous. Split the cable between mid base and tweeter and each cable still carries the full frequency range where it attaches to the crossover.

  • @dell177
    @dell177 Місяць тому

    I've never biwirdmy speakers but I can see you woud have the opportunity to use wire best for bass on the woofer and wire best for imaging and the high end for the tweeters. I would not expect a big difference but I think it would have an effect,

  • @philipw7058
    @philipw7058 27 днів тому

    My biwire cable from kimber uses two different gauge in on run,one for bass and one for the mid and highs,biwire works if the designer built it into the speaker to have that option and it is always cleaner

  • @simonzinc-trumpetharris852
    @simonzinc-trumpetharris852 5 місяців тому +1

    Pointless.

  • @solitaire5142
    @solitaire5142 9 місяців тому +1

    Buy-wiring is a crock of $hit. It`s effectively only lengthening the stock jumper cables. Nothing changes, the signal path is identical.
    Its nice to hear people are educating themselves and not falling for cable marketing BS.

    • @rogerwebb7501
      @rogerwebb7501 2 місяці тому

      The signal path is NOT identical! In the single wire system the full frequency signal goes through the speaker wires to either the tweeter terminals and this is the split point, so the bass goes through the jumper wires/plates to the woofer terminals, or, the single wires go to the woofer terminals and this becomes the split point, and the treble signal current flows up the jumper wires/plates to the tweeter terminals.
      In the biwire system taking off the jumper wires/plates separates the tweeter crossover filter from the woofer crossover filter and the split point is stretched back to the amplifier terminals. The treble component of the signal current therefore travels along the wire connected to the tweeter terminal and the bass component along the wire to the woofer terminals.
      Does it make a difference sonically?.....don't ask me, I'm Just an electronics engineer of 54 years experience!! 13:02

    • @solitaire5142
      @solitaire5142 2 місяці тому

      @@rogerwebb7501 54 years of experience huh?. OK Mr Engineer, draw schematics of of a loudspeaker system with a buy-wire bridge and one with a buy-wire.
      Notice a resemblance?
      Physics dont lie.
      Educate yourselves people..

    • @rogerwebb7501
      @rogerwebb7501 2 місяці тому

      @@solitaire5142 I was being rather modest in my claim of 54 years as an electronics engineer - I actually studied electronics starting in 1966, but didn't become qualified til 1970. However I grasped the principles of Ohm's Law as a child, say 12 years old.
      '.......effectively only lengthening the stock jumper cables. Nothing changes, the signal path is identical.' is not quite right. If you lengthen the 'stock jumper cables' you merely lengthen the path for either the treble content (if the speaker cable between the amp and speakers is connected to the woofer terminals), or the bass content (if the speaker cable is connected to the tweeter terminals). In this case the whole signal current still travels along the speaker cable between amp and speaker. The whole point of biwiring is that the point at which the treble and bass content diverges is dragged back to the amplifier end, to do this you disconnect the jumper cables/plates.
      The problem I have with most of the comments on these videos is that they tend to try and 'prove' that there can be no sonic difference because there is no physical/electrical difference in the two modes. As I've shown above, there is a physical difference, and therefore, by extension a possible (at least theoretical) electrical difference.
      I don't believe there is a sonic benefit in the biwire configuration (my own Quad 2812 electrostatics don't have a conventional crossover, therefore not 'biwirable') but trying to 'prove' that biwiring can't work because 'the signal path is identical' is unscientific. If you want a perfect example of an unscientific approach to the subject have a look at M Zilch's two UA-cam videos.

  • @dragonstone6594
    @dragonstone6594 Місяць тому

    I like bi amping for the simple reason that you can use two amplifiers on a single speaker and essentially double your power.

  • @cmonroe181
    @cmonroe181 2 місяці тому

    Bi wire and bi amp are two different things. Your middle cable is for biamp the third is for bi wire

  • @spocktheripper
    @spocktheripper 7 місяців тому

    If it works for you do it. If it doesn't, then don't. Same with bi-amping.

  • @williamsomerset8649
    @williamsomerset8649 Рік тому +1

    biwire will work if you run different cable for bass and treble. you can experience with different brands, change to bass and treble. i can hear difference with my onkyo amp and jamo speaker. jamo tends to bright sound. i use vandenhul cable to tame the bright sound. and also the details in biwire will improve. this is not so expensive setup, but the sound improve.

  • @doctorquestian
    @doctorquestian Місяць тому

    Bi-wiring would be the same as if you had an automobile that had one battery (like most do) and running a wire from the battery to the heater, while running another wire from the battery to the headlights, and then telling everyone that the heater runs so much better and the headlights are so much brighter. Any technician would tell you that it's the same voltage. Duh.

    • @PlatypusPerspective
      @PlatypusPerspective Місяць тому

      Actual technician here - your example is useful. Any technician worth their salt would know and would tell you that you can _not_ assume that it's the same voltage...
      Did you know that if headlights are powered from shared wiring that's handling any reasonable amount of current already, and you run another wire from the battery to just the headlights, that they _will_ get brighter? (Less voltage drop.) It's one of the first simple mods I did many years ago to my first cars which had poor wiring looms and dull headlights.
      Likewise, bi-wiring separates current out to two wires, so only the current required in each flows in that wire. It can no longer be assumed that the voltages at the end of each are identical.
      If you're interested in stuff like this, why not do some study on the basics of electrical theory? The fundamentals are not too difficult, and would let you spot when you're being misled by people who just adopt slogans without knowing how things actually work.

  • @coccolocco
    @coccolocco Рік тому +1

    I had know idea about bi-wire until fairly recently, always wondered why my Wharfdales had two connections on them 😋. This video is the clearest explanation of it though.

  • @schemkesa
    @schemkesa Рік тому +1

    It doesn't work.... bi-amping does

  • @paulwhite1109
    @paulwhite1109 Рік тому +1

    Interesting as always Phil. Can you include monoblocs when you do bi-amping too (I know you don't have much time to read these now). I used to bi-wire but now just get 1 length of cable that's twice the price with a bit of that cable as a jumper between posts as you mentioned.
    By the way, if you do see this, I'm waiting for my Ariston RD80 with Mission arm as discussed. Looking forward to it.

  • @COLDMKULTRA
    @COLDMKULTRA Рік тому +3

    Yes, a video on bi-amping would also be very interesting Phil! 👍

    • @sameebah
      @sameebah Рік тому +1

      I've just gone to bi-amping (literally just done it 2 days ago), having taken delivery of a pair of monoblocks to power the bass units, with the stereo power amp handling the treble.
      The amps are from NVA, and I have the passive P50 pre-amp, SA80 stereo power (80 Wpc) and now the MA160 mono power amps (160 Wpc). The new amps are still settling in, bit it does sound pretty good, but oddly, it seems quieter for a given volume setting. Perhaps that's psychoogical, or maybe it's less "shouty" (not that is was ).

    • @COLDMKULTRA
      @COLDMKULTRA Рік тому +3

      @@sameebah Great stuff! ... Yes, bi-amping is a different thing altogether ... and very good indeed👍

    • @mikeibby69
      @mikeibby69 28 днів тому

      Done every method from single, single with jumper cables, bi wired and bi amped. Biamping made a huge difference. Depends on your kit too. Some speaker manufacturers only have single wiring, so 4 monblocs would be useless. I had Ruark Prelude Rs with MF Xa200s and Xa50s bi amped with QED Genesis and Profile Silver 12. Great combo.

  • @shb8124
    @shb8124 Рік тому

    Bi-wiring never made a bit of difference it's removing the crap little factory supplied jumpers that makes a difference and put in decent quality jumpers instead. At the end of the day all bi-wiring does is move the connection (the Y) from inside the speaker to the outside the amp still sees exactly the same thing if adequate cable is used in the first place. *Bi-amping* is a different thing altogether though yeah.

  • @echoed61
    @echoed61 6 місяців тому

    Enjoying your videos, but on the bi-wiring, I still want to do it but need to know if I am doing it right. Previously, I had four banana plugs already set up coming out of each speaker where soundwise I had all tweeter in one speaker and all woofer in the other. I still don't know if that is wrong. I have four A inputs on my integrated amp and four B inputs. I can put other four - and four + inputs in the A speaker connects and the same in the B connects, BUT some people advise to combine the two negatives from one speaker into one banana plug and input that in one amp negative post and the same for the positives (this is for one speaker), so I would be using only two posts for each speaker at the amp end. My questions is: is this the same as using all four separate banana plugs going into the four A speaker posts (i.e. the positive and negatives on the top posts - tweeters - on one speaker and the positives and negatives - woofer - on the bottom posts on the other speaker)?

  • @xxxYYZxxx
    @xxxYYZxxx Рік тому +3

    The main advantage of biwiring is doubling the gauge of wire without using unduly thick wire. Thick wire can be awkward to bend into place at the terminal. I don't like terminals on wire. Biwiring allows the thickest possible gauge wire that fits without needing to be trimmed down, times two.

    • @johnshaw359
      @johnshaw359 Рік тому

      Yep, you can effectively half the cable length, I left the speaker biwire straps in situ.

  • @tm8473
    @tm8473 5 місяців тому

    since both pairs are connected togheter at the amplifier end, the only chance to spot differences is in the worst cases scenario, where cables are really long and gauges are really small. In that scenario the normal and BW connection types loses their electrical equivalence due to cable impedance becoming significant. In theory this helps BW to better "isolate" the 2 crossover sections, but also wastes power and looses damping.

  • @applanateearth586
    @applanateearth586 Рік тому

    Round and around in circles, you just 100 percent proved its all completely nonsense with transistor amplifiers.....

  • @ENGLISHISBEST
    @ENGLISHISBEST Рік тому

    Always biwired and think why use a seperate wire?. Run the wire to both , just cut a section of the cover on the wire about 5 inches from the tip, baring about 1 inch which goes through the bottom connector, then bare an inch off tip for the top. It's less interference & the same grade wire flowing throughout. Theres normally too much fluffing about to get possibly a cleaner connection.

  • @jupjuck
    @jupjuck Рік тому

    I thought it was a bit like a separately powered sub, free up headroom for the mid/highs so the amp/(s) don't run out and clip/compress/fart out

  • @altops4490
    @altops4490 Рік тому

    Yeah not so great an explanation, dual inputs is mainly for biamping, usually solid state on the low end, and something more tube like for the top end is the ideal setup. And signal smearing comes from ferrous metals in the signal path, like spade connectors, studs and nuts on the binding posts. The best results in Sonics is to solder the speaker cables directly to the crossboard/ speakers, never use connectors. If your speaker's came with connectors cut him off and solder the wire directly

  • @daiblaze1396
    @daiblaze1396 7 місяців тому

    Funny stories about language in UK.
    As regards the subject, it was indeed a bit confused from time to time but at last we have a grasp on what's your thoughts on it.
    Thank you!
    It was helpfull. I was about to test it anyway but now I understand more what it is about.

  • @Ultrafrozen
    @Ultrafrozen Рік тому

    The binding post connector straps are fine over this short distance, they probably have more contact area than bare wire or banana plugs. Ever measure the wire gauge inside the speaker, cross-over, etc? Heavier gauge is required to transmit over long distance to keep resistance down.

  • @richardsinger01
    @richardsinger01 Рік тому

    Doesn't biwiring just move the point at which the bass and hf drivers interact? Ie from the crossover end back to the amp end of the cable? Maybe that helps somehow, who knows.

  • @lekmannen9990
    @lekmannen9990 6 місяців тому

    audiophile stuff truly are the astrology of audio...

  • @greggles69
    @greggles69 Рік тому

    Kudos speakers no longer support bi-wire, but the “Super” and “Titan” models incorporate external jumpers which, when removed, completely bypass the internal crossover. Thus they can be used in fully active mode, without the need to open up the cabinet.

  • @gaz1tinsley
    @gaz1tinsley Рік тому

    How t wire technics SB -EH760 tri wire speakers ?

  • @innerpeace5913
    @innerpeace5913 Рік тому

    Back in the bi-wiring days, Dynaudio used BNC connectors for most of their speakers (as well as binding posts) but positively discouraged bi-wiring. It always surprised me but, having used their Ocos coaxial speaker cable, I now understand why. It’s all to do with the resistance of the speaker cable (coaxial apparently is far far better for longer lengths).
    Given their high quality crossover circuits, bi-wiring just isn’t necessary.

  • @Mc674bo
    @Mc674bo Рік тому

    Hi all. Yes very interesting, I have had speakers with this ability , and the ones I have now the Q acoustic concept 20s have the ability . But I’ve never ever tried it, but I have upgraded my cable from vary basic stuff to van den hul clear water cable , which to my aged ears was a major upgrade . Now if I then went and invested in another set to by wire would I see a difference at least equal to my existing cables , well I’ll leave that question to the good people who follow this channel

  • @Markymarkvinylnut
    @Markymarkvinylnut Рік тому

    Great video Phil, really well explained. Thanks How easy is it to convert a naim nac a5 bi wired? Cheers

  • @hienddave
    @hienddave Рік тому

    I've triwired Ruark Excalibur's. They are awesome sounding speakers. I've clipped them with my 1000 watt monos. Better and more realistic than a live concert.

  • @tiggywinkle1000
    @tiggywinkle1000 Рік тому

    There's one born every minute ...

  • @applanateearth586
    @applanateearth586 Рік тому

    What works extremely well is on a tube amplifier wire the bass to the 4 ohm( more current.) And the treble to the 8 ohm....

    • @scottchegg1209
      @scottchegg1209 Рік тому

      100% correct sir, use all of the transformer windings!

  • @stephens2984
    @stephens2984 Рік тому

    i read years ago the reason why speaker cables sounded different was that the bass frequencies travel along the body of the cable and the high frequencies along the circumference so i tested a ringmain cable against a multi stranded and the difference in sound was considerable. what i do not understand is when the crossover is in the loudspeaker how bi wiring would be any better than good quality single pair cables.

  • @cubemerula5264
    @cubemerula5264 Рік тому

    It doesn't work.

  • @boogiewoogie9770
    @boogiewoogie9770 Рік тому

    I'm certain my Monitor Audio RX-2's sounded a lot better after I Bi-wired them as advised on the instruction booklet for these speakers. I had single wire for quite a while with short wire links before I did this. Why do manufactures advice to bi-wire if there is no benefit? I use 4 separate cables btw.

    • @scottchegg1209
      @scottchegg1209 Рік тому

      A fashion trend

    • @analoghardwaretops3976
      @analoghardwaretops3976 Рік тому

      Same as doctors prescribing particular branded medications (you have no choice) instead of "generic"...( where the choice is yours)

  • @welshchap
    @welshchap Рік тому

    You're right! Years ago, when playing CD's was a thing, I had a Meridian 506 and Audiolab 8000A driving a pair of Mission 753s (oh my I loved that system) and played around with bi-wiring. Even though I bought a stupidly expensive set of cables I don't think my ears ever detected a difference. Actually, I'd love to have that set-up again :)

    • @scottchegg1209
      @scottchegg1209 Рік тому

      A classic system from my retail days in the 90s

    • @shb8124
      @shb8124 Рік тому

      I had 753 Freedoms at one point and an Audiolab 8000A sitting here at the mo, damned shame I didn't actually have them at the same time 😆

  • @markcarrington8565
    @markcarrington8565 Рік тому +3

    Hi Phil, not convinced about the potential for back emf causing an issue as the crossover would filter it out of the opposite drivers. The theory is that the low frequency signal carries far more current, which has an effect on the much lower level high frequency part of the signal.
    You are correct in saying that bi-wiring uses two pairs of wires which can both be connected to a single pair of binding posts on the power amp. It doesn’t require a pair of power amps as that would as the name suggests be bi-amping. No doubt you’ll show the difference with one of your splendid diagrams in the next video. In the meantime, here’s my attempt to explain what is going on in the wires of a bi-wire setup.
    The separation of the signal down the two pairs of wires is achieved by the crossover filter inside the speaker. This is totally counter intuitive; the assumption being that because the cables both connect to the same binding posts on the amp it must be the same signal.
    The reason it works is because the speakers are driven not by the voltage across the terminals but the current. The current is inversely proportional to the resistance and the crossover presents a resistive load which varies with frequency.
    On the bass driver, the inductor in the circuit presents a low equivalent resistance to low frequencies and as frequency rises the resistance also rises. The current does the opposite, hence the current in the bass circuit is only present at low frequencies and not present at higher frequencies above the crossover point. Similarly, for the treble, a capacitor achieves the corresponding effect for the tweeter, protecting it from being blown.
    Effectively, this reduces crosstalk between the high current bass frequencies and the lower current mid/high frequencies. Some folks in some systems hear a difference, others do not.
    With bi-amping exactly the same thing happens, only now you are separating the signal all the way back to the pre-amp output. As the power supplies are now free to only power part of the frequency spectrum and the effects are magnified. More people hear the difference when bi-amping.
    Using different rated power amps for this is not advisable if you want to maintain a consistent balance in the sound throughout the frequency spectrum for different volume settings.
    To answer another question on this thread, bi-wiring and bi-amping use the exact same crossover components as when not in bi-wire mode, hence the crossover point is not impacted at all.
    Hope this helps. For those who remain unconvinced or are unwilling to shell out for double the length of speaker wire, I agree with Phil that you should at least replacing the nasty plate connectors on the back of most speakers with a very short length of your favourite speaker cable.

    • @Ineedtotakeabreak
      @Ineedtotakeabreak Рік тому

      More BS.

    • @ReferenceFidelityComponents
      @ReferenceFidelityComponents Рік тому +2

      This is not correct. Biwiring connects signals to a single pair of output binding posts on the output of the power amp circuit and splits them into high and low runs except that BOTH pairs of biwire cables do in fact deal with the exact same full frequency signal and voltage, which is filtered by the corresponding crossover filter. It’s no different to considering the single wire run to the crossover where the full voltage and signal are split and presented to each side of the crossover filter. All Biwiring does is move that point back to the amp output. The only possible way it can affect sound is if the dpeaker cable is reactive with frequency enough to act as a filter or such that loop resistance/impedance becomes significant enough to affect things like damping factor or filter hf due to very high capacitance or inductance.
      The simple answer is that using a karge enough wire gauge which is not of highly reactive geometry in the first place will totally negate any perceived advantage of Biwiring. Engineers who design this stuff understand this but try getting some dealers or enthusiasts to believe what a design engineer says is often more difficult than shifting people from their own pseudo scientific belief systems unfortunately.

  • @nicholaskrainc6837
    @nicholaskrainc6837 8 місяців тому +1

    Bi wiring or as it's known in the trade " Buy wiring " ie a clever way to sell more wire ! Joking aside you are one of the few audio reviewers that point out what I have always believed . That is any "improvement" perceived by bi wiring can be almost entirely attributed to the removal of those crappy metal shorting links from the signal path. I replaced them on my speakers with good quality wire as you suggest and definitely heard an improvement .

  • @slyspy9819
    @slyspy9819 Рік тому +1

    Please re do the video you're very confusing and seem to be unsure as to what you're explaining and it's tough to watch

  • @mattharwood4413
    @mattharwood4413 Рік тому +1

    Another really helpful video Phil. I did not know exactly how that worked. BTW, I bought the Andwella CD (couldn't find the LP) on your recommendation. It rocks! The bass on the first track could crack your walls! I can't believe they aren't more well known.

  • @oneemotiva4975
    @oneemotiva4975 Рік тому

    I agree in your deduction, as I have never noticed any difference bi-wiring the speakers, nor Bi-amping them. I tried this on ,y B&W 800 D3 and the Sonus Faber Aida, and at the end I believe it was a waste of money on very expensive cables.
    That is my opinion as well.