Aaahhh No!! Biwiring does not REMOVE circuitry! How could it? What have you removed? You have ADDED twice the cable... You've quite literally INcreased circuitry. Think of cables as resistors (and they are). What you are doing is changing WHERE the cable resistance is placed in the crossover schematic. Yes..... Biwiring can change the sound. But not for the better, in my experiences. It's just different, and it's probably not how the crossover was voiced by the designer. Adding resistance between the High and Low halves of the crossover will change the sound, and it's likely that the crossover was designed with the 2 halves connected together (ie... both halves being driven by the same EXACT signal). If you separate that connection at the crossover input, suddenly both halves are not seeing the same exact voltage signal. I've found that driver integration suffers with biwiring. Your mileage may vary.
Hey Mate, sorry to say that but you are talking a little rubbish here. Your description about the sound difference is almost right and what you said about mixing different cables is correct too, but your technical explanation sucks ;-) 1st - Your tweeter cable does NOT connect to the tweeter directly, not even with a x-over of the 1st order (just a capacitor in line). And not one cable (pole) either. Yes physically you are connecting it directly to one side of the coil of the chassis but this is not how an electric circuit works. Remove one pole and there is no circuit anymore. 2nd - It does not sound better because you have double the cable. Different frequencies travel differently over the cable. Lower frequencies need more power so they benefit from cables with larger cross-sections When you do bi-wiring you have effectively doubled the cross-section, but only one pair is connected to the woofer, so the effective cross-section stays the same. Higher frequencies benefit from larger surfaces or surfaces with a lower impedance, that's why silver-coated cables are more brilliant on the high frequencies. But the same that goes for the woofer is true for the tweeter, yes you doubled the surface but you are only connecting one pair of cables, so the surface area that connects to the tweeter stays the same. So the question is why can you still hear a difference? Is it psycho-acoustics? No it is not. The difference is that you extended the length of the connection between your woofer and your tweeter and therefore you obviously increased the resistance. You had like 2cm before bi-wiring, now you have 6m cable between them. When the woofer starts to resonate it creates a higher frequency signal by itself, and this signal feeds right into the tweeter. With bi-wiring you are suppressing this feedback by the resistance of the cable, that's it. So what you hear is a more precise soundstage and details. Your impression that maybe even your midrange sounds better in kind of true and false, yes it sounds better because the harmonics are better recreated by the tweeter. Now be brave and do one about bi-amping so that I can really start laughing ;-) I am just making fun of you, good channel anyway coz at the end all that matters is how it sounds like, trust your ears, they work well!
@@stereoreviewx yes one wire goes there directly, that's true, but it is a circuit and in this circuit, there is at least one capacitor otherwise, you would burn the tweeter.
Omg I thought you were going to debunk right here but I’m not sure if you did. The biwiring makes the low and high frequencies travel in separate cables. This is like man and wife travelling in same car trying to achieve favourite shopping destinations. Neither is 100% happy with their shopping productivity. With biwiring, it’s like the two shoppers can go in their own separate cars. They are no longer affected by each other’s journey at all. So for each one, the trip is more efficient. Heavy currents of bass notes can affect the phasing / timing of higher frequencies travelling in the same cable - THIS IS THE REASON biwiring works. If you ever find your system sounds better when you make sure no mains wires pass near any interconnects... same thing.
@@LeeTanczos Sorry but this is not true since you are still splitting the signal in low/high frequencies in the x-over located in the speaker, not at the amp. Both cables carry the same signal to the speaker.
I've tried biwiring my Mission 760iSE and I honestly can't tell any difference. It only really works in systems which use active crossovers and bi-amping; one amp each for HF and LF. I'm not convinced by cables either. They are basically just copper conductors carrying a small voltage. The only things that really matter are; 1. Never use that thin crappy "bell wire" stuff, 2. Keep your cable runs as short as possible without over tensioning them. 3. Make sure your banana plugs (or whatever) are properly connected to the cable ends; preferably soldered.
So forgive me for saying so, but your explanation of HOW to bi-wire is poor and uninformative. Why do people make informative videos, which don't inform? Pointless. I want to know how to actually do it step by step, not if it sounds better, I wouldn't be doing it if it didn't!!.
2:15 The second benefit is "This wiring will go direct to the tweeter without going through the crossover". I am surprised by such a lack of understanding. I've been designing high performance speakers for over 30 years and have never provided a bi-wire option. If anything, having the option to bi-wire on a loudspeaker can often mean the crossover is less optimally designed than it could be. Manufacturers don't believe it makes a difference, but are compelled to include them for fear of losing a sale to a competitor. I guess one cannot argue with the claim, "but I can hear a difference" because those making the claim refuse to be subject to any form of controlled test, but at least it allows the rest of us to judge the credibility of their opinions about other aspects of audio. Sorry Kelvin, I have the greatest respect for you and I always enjoy your videos, but was disappointed by this one. I would have thought someone like you would be dispelling these myths not reinforcing them.
Some people seem to think the lows keep obediently to one cable and the highs to another. It's the same signal in both wires arriving at the speaker terminals. Bi wiring is an example of the placebo effect.
@@spudpud-T67Wrong! Why cannot people look into this from an electronics point of view? Because of the load provided by the tweeter and high pass network, and the woofer and low pass network, which are completely separate in the biwire configuration (the jumper links removed) the demand of the load in both cases is different, ensuring that the high frequency current travels down the tweeter wire and the low frequency current down the woofer wire.
I discovered decades ago that high quality speaker cables dramatically improved the KEF speakers I had at that time: more spacious etc. As an engineer, this seemed likely because of the relatively high current involved after the power amplifier but I remained a sceptic about interconnects at signal level, ie from CD player or network player to the amp. No longer! I became convinced to lash out £50 on an RCA interconnect by PS Audio and boy, did it make a difference. I was completely gobsmacked that changing the cable carrying such a tiny current could make a difference but it did! Now you’ve convinced me to at least try bi-wiring which I’ve also been sceptical of. I love experimenting.
Bi-Wiring is just OK, you should consider Bi-Amping, a whole different level in sound! Just make sure you remove the metal bridges(Jumpers) between the 2 speaker terminals or you will fry your amps!
bi amping can actually sound worse due to phasing issues, im a musician and can vouch for this. there is always a delay of sound between amps unless they are identical and serviced.
@@Synthematix I use an active crossover, it eliminates that issue and I can equalize my speakers to my liking. I use a tube power amp for the midrange and high frequencies and a solid state power amp for my low frequencies with great results!
Hi Kelvin, nice video and I've just subscribed to your channel too, so thanks. I agree, I bi-wire my main system using Mogami W3104 quad cable, which is fantastic stuff. It doesn't take any components out of the circuit, but it does separate the signals in the wires, reducing crosstalk between high and low frequencies. This is the part that some people don't actually believe, of course, because they think that it's all the same at the amp end. I agree with you on interconnects too. I thought I'd have a go at making my own and I love them so much I sold all my Chord Company cables, even though I'd been using them for years.
I've been watching your videos for about a week now. You're my primary source of info, more experience than most. I like that you don't insult other people for their opinions.
Hello Kelvin. We've all heard a lot of the arguments around the effectiveness of cables. Like you, I enjoy swapping gear out to listen to the same track of music to see what the differences may be. I hadn't put a lot of belief in cables making a noticeable difference... after this episode I'll be checking it out. Also.... thanks for explaining about bi-wiring... I'll be giving that a go as well. Cheers from Canada!
if you really want to hear a difference with cables, use some thin crappy wire on one speaker and some nicer 12 gauge on the other. you'll notice right away the issue. whether this is just a loss in "a few db" as a recording engineer might say, or something deeper in the sound, I haven't investigated enough to know, but you know what people who care will say.
Absolutely way way better than single wire, im not really good in hooking up wiring, just relying on youtube, but when i try it my self the right way of Bi wiring , its just phenomenal you can easily say everything has change from good to excellent.
As an electronics engineer by trade and as a guitarist by hobby I will say this. A speaker / audio transducer is an electric motor. It converts electrical energy into mechanical energy. As long as the cables can carry the voltage and current then it doesn't matter if there is one or two cables.
My expirence with BiWire has always been creating clearer mid range , less congested sound , better clarity , slighlty cleaner space and spatial resolution.
Not being disrespectful but at your age your hearing is probably compromised. If you can hear a difference you're probably imagining it. Bi wiring does diddly squat, everyone who's anyone in audio knows that. Make a video where you are blindfolded and someone is changing (or not changing) between regular wiring and biwiring, if you can pick the times the biwiring is playing I'll eat my undies
Well it’s an interesting picture you paint if I can’t hear well but I think I can hear differences in cables which I certainly do. I mean my whole channel is full of me talking about small differences. So I must be either deluded on a monster scale or I know what I’m talking about. You can decide. I certainly want to do some blind tests by the way they’re just a bit more tricky to film. K
I just fulfilled a long--time, childish fetish dream and upgraded from two mono amps to four... the unused spare connections on the speakers and the pre.amp always gave me autism :D With great power comes great responsibility at the power knob, as the adage goes...
It makes absolutely no difference. Logically and electronically to think otherwise is insane. Using modern speaker cable you will get no difference. The A and B terminals on the amp receive the same power, when using both they are bridged, just like the bridge plates on the speaker's terminals. So you've effectively removed the bridge plates from the speaker end and attached them on the amp end... how is that making any difference?
Head to the shed and nick the cables from your old Arc Welder, and hook them up to your system. It worked very well for me for 25 years, until I invested in some quality Japaneses Speaker Cables of a similar gauge (thickness), 15 years ago. Thicker Cables do take wrestling to get them were you want. Also depending on the Banana Sockets Mounts, you may need to suspend very heavy Cables to remove pressure of the Banana Sockets. SCIENCE: Signals move along the skin of a wire, so the more wires, the greater the surface area the signal can use. Also the lower the Resistance, less energy is lost (heat). The more pure the copper used the easier for the electrons to travel, the more efficient the cable, and lower resistance.
Yeah....Nope! As others have said, you can't bypass any of the crossover circuitry. It wouldn't be able to do its job if you bypassed anything! (anything significant, at least). Using different cables for LF/HF could indeed "change things", but only for the worse. Some "amateur audiophile" tinkerer playing around (yes, playing!) knows better than the company that designed the crossover? Hmm, sure! Cables can only add LOSS. If you use very thin cable on the LF, sure, you'll lose some bass. You'd have to use insanely rubbish cable to have any significant impact on the HF side. Cables can't "add" anything, they can only detract, so if you're hearing differences from these "tweaks", it's because you're introducing loss in the signal path. Speaker cables either provide sufficient current-carrying capabilities, or they don't. Only on the "don't" side of it will they change the sound. Any actual "improvements" are placebo at best, IMHO. The manual for my Rogers LS3/5A speakers does, somewhat surprisingly, recommend bi-wiring. They make vague claims of "improving the stability and depth of the stereo image", which sounds like the sort of word-salad rubbish that they print in What Hifi? magazine. I remain thoroughly unconvinced about bi-wiring. It simply makes no sense. I can see how your typical "audiophile" would buy into this rubbish, but from a more technical standpoint it just doesn't make sense. "Audiophiles" are like the "quack doctors" of audio engineering. The vast majority of them have very limited technical/audio engineering knowledge and just repeat what other "audiophiles" have claimed. Probably true of that Rogers manual, too! In that case, I feel they do know better, but are telling the customer what they want to hear!
Next week passive bi-amping:) I have an Arcam A80 and a P80, but it is a very very little difference, not worth it, better buy one good amp the price of the two amps together:)
If you bi-wire to separate channels on your amp and if your amp has gain controls you can tweak your high and low outputs and change the sound. Throw that in with an EQ and you can use lamp cord (which back in the day was 12ga solid copper) and it won't matter.
I like to listen to Jazz so the only thing that i was contemplating with biwiring is higher treble on the high hats or trumpet/sax solos. I own a pair of $3500 speakers running from a 130wpc Sansui amp and a dac, and biwiring was noticeable at first, how can i describe, the instruments became minutely cleaner, tighter. Personally I found highs to be too shiny to the point that it was noticeable and after a few hours, fatiguing and annoying. I've gone back to wire jumpers and single cable. Much better. I probably tend to like a more warm, mellowed, chilled tone, like that of a double bass or a jazzbox guitar. Maybe i need to buy myself a tube preamp... yes lets talk about tubes! I only trust my ears. Its like drinking wine or scotch - a very subjective experience at the end of the day.
I am yet to do my Dedicated study upon the difference. I confess to having a part of me skeptical to the significant difference. I know i have heard speakers sound great - on just 'doorbell' wires - yes shock horror to the audiophile world! But to hear the difference i feel you have to give it your 110% to really notice. I have Quad 12l's bi-wired but i need to swap the large and slim cables across to really know - good test from you there Kelvin, and thanks again
Cables, they certainly contribute to the sound but it is nothing significant. But Bi-Wiring certainly do contribute quite significantly to the overall sound quality. I would say even more than 4%. In my case I would say that the sound betterred by even 10%. It was audible at first listen immediately.
Do you have a cross over in your amp before the output terminals? Otherwise the signal is the same in the two wires to the speaker but then filtered after the speaker crossover. Hearing bi wiring differences is the perfect example of placebo effect.
@@spudpud-T67As I've pointed out before, the two elements of the crossover are separated by taking out jumpers between the upper and lower terminals. You now have two completely different 'branches', the point at which the highs and lows branch being now at the amplifier end rather than the speaker end. The high pass filter will 'demand' that the high frequency current flows along the tweeter wire, and the low pass filter will 'demand' that the low frequency current flows along the woofer wire. That split point at the amplifier end is, in a single wire (normal) configuration, inside the speaker cabinet - usually part of the printed circuit board for speakers with one pair of terminals.
@@spudpud-T67 It's not a theory, it's a scientific fact! It IS how a crossover and its associated wiring works! The crossover is frequency dependent...each leg of it, that is: It divides the two groups (or three...or four) by frequency and feeds the treble to the tweeter, and the bass to the woofer. I think the trouble is you don't understand WHERE that split occurs. Ina biwire setup the split is dragged back to the amplifier end....rather than being inside the speaker cabinet.
Bi-wiring doen't "remove" any crossover parts: the crossover is (say) a high pass section and a low pass section. As you say, you are using a "fatter" cable, but you may get the same results with two (different) cables and the shunts still on the speaker.
I'm running Fyne Audio F502 from a Yamaha A-S1200 amp. I'm using a double run of Kimber 4VS to bi-wire. The bi-wiring makes a good improvement over the single cable run.
If your tweeter is a piezo transducer then virtually NO current will be flowing through the cable feeding it because they are voltage controlled devices NOT current controlled devices like a moving coil speaker. I suggest that people who are into HiFi, educate themselves in electronics. It will save you a lot of money. Or just ask a qualified electronics engineer on the Interwebs.
Greetings from Scotland. ..yep I'm in agreement with you...I used an ex BT 3 gang mains conditioner from eBay very heavy....wow my screen improved and my sound, best upgrade on the cheap ever
i had a Sugden A48 it was a great amp paired with Tannoy Cheviot Speakers and a Rega 3 Turntable they sounded Fantastic together but sadly the Sugden died i wish i still had it
“I did a proper scientific thing, I listened to them” ...not science lol. Maybe the science of psychology. I fully support your tinkering and enjoying your system by the way. But it’s not science, and listening to the same song does not make it a controlled experiment. The science of electricity passing through wires is well understood and measurable. Basically if you are using a cable as a tone control, there’s something off about your cable.
Hey there, new to your channel and really like the advice. Got a question, I have a Yamaha RXA3080 and wanted to know if it makes sense to run a Pioneer M-72 4x100 watt amp through the Yamaha pre-outs to i-amp front LSI-9 Polk speakers or just use one of the Yamaha's channels not being used on my 5.1.2 set up? Thanks Ron
Once again, I have to agree with you. Sensible choice of cables when bi-wiring is usually a worthwhile improvement. The next step, bi-amping, I have found makes an even better improvement. The ulimate, going 'active' using active crossovers instead of the passive ones inside the speaker cabinet, can make a massive difference.
Totally BS. Open up your amp and you would see that your connectors are interconnected to each other. So it doesn’t really matter if you leave your Amp with one cable and then connect to the four speaker connectors or run two sepperate cables from your amp to your speakers. Also your High. Mid and lows are separated on the Crossover. So there is absolutely no need for Bi-wire ring.
Long winded and miss leading, Bi wire = both red cables at the amp end into red socket and at the speaker end the 2 red wires connect to the red sockets, same idea with the black cables. Bi amp which is what your showing, requires 2 red and 2 black at both ends connect as you would for left channel and then connect the other speaker the same using the right channel outputs.
Pointless waste of money and time. It actually slightly and measurable increases bridged distortion in the amp and single runs of low dcr speaker cable are technically better, cheaper and all that is needed. There's never been one shred of proof that biwiring improves anything. By the way "listening tests" are NOT a scientific test of anything😉 if people prefer the results, great. Lets not get carried away and use non representative sample subjective assessment as proof of anything more than personal preference. You are not cutting out ANY meaningful circuitry by doing it.. that's complete nonesense.
depends on the interconnect resistance you need to go for coaxial cable 75 ohms for interconnect if it's digital source, analogue source go for 50 Ohm's into a preamp or Poweramp 50 ohms give you about 2 of 3 DB drop in output what is preferred for solid-state don't do this from valve stick with 75 ohms. Belden cable is probably the best cheapest. Always use 60 50 or 30 ohms possibly from turntable to preamp don't go with 75 ohms this will give you less output as I said but makes a cartridge more sensitive
I only believe in Bi Wiring if you plug tweeters on A and Bass on B that is using A+B together.that is two channels on your amplifier.4 outs on the amp.if not is all shite.
What is the idea behind biwiring ? It is that some frequencies degrade some others and more precisely that low frequencies degrade high frequencies! - First, why it wouldn’t be the opposite ? Getting into it, it would mean that a 365Hz would influence a 370Hz but also all frequencies in between. So pushing things further, in the ideal you shouldn’t “biwire” but “thousand-wire” or more, for as many significative frequencies with as many wires required! - Second if that was the case you wouldn’t be able to have any electronic equipment, like. spectrum analyzer! Another example is that you’ll never be able to get a square curve. This is pure electronic facts. This theory isn’t holding up ! Ask yourself why biwiring is done only in audio and more precisely only for the speakers’ cables !!!! There are two types of biwiring. Either the filters are on the drivers’s sides or they are on the amplifier’s side. Roughtly in both cases, your amp will have to deal with two different impedances, specially if you use different cables for low & high, but the driver manufacturer has no clue of the impedances of your wires so they cannot calculate their filters in function. They made their filters supposing a same impedance cable, they cannot do otherwise unless they sell you the cables going with it but they won’t know the length you need. So biwiring doesn’t bring any avantage but furthermore it is a problem, you just double your wire cost for a degraded sound. To sum it up, biwiring unbalance the impedances between the high and the low frequencies of your speakers which haven’t been calculated for because it is impossible.
I would say there’s two things going on One inside the speaker you are having a shorter path to the driver it’s not going through the crossover board certainly one wire isn’t The other thing is kind of basic which is you’ve doubled the amount of cable
@@stereoreviewx Crossover just after the amp, or just before the speaker make not much difference. In either case you have a certain length of cable to reach the speaker, so a certain impedance to factor. The manufacturer has to make an impedance choice to calculate its crossover and it is same for both High and Low. The worse scenario is having two different cables for High & Low. When you say cables matter, you are right in the sense that some would have a better matching impedance for the couple Amp/Speaker. Some also may be better protected against magnetic fields around.
@@stereoreviewx There is no shorter or unfiltered path. The signal whether traveling through one cable or twenty will pass through the crossover. A capacitor for the high pass and an inductor for the low pass. Which frequency do you suggest doesn't need filtering?
Amps drive speakers, the load, or impedance the speakers present is expressed in ohms, speakers with lower impedance require more current from the amplifier, 4ohm speakers will draw twice the current compared to 8ohm speakers.
The plates just connect one positive to the other positive or negative to the other negative so you then just connect one positive one negative as normal with one lead if you were to take the plates out you would connected to the woofer or the tweeter
@@stereoreviewx I know that. But recently I hooked up some new speakers with my biwire kimbers and forgot to take off the plates. I don't think it caused any damage. Currently using a class D
Tried bi-wiring/bi-amping with my Arcam AVR20 (you can enable bi-amp feature for fronts) and it did open the soundstage more and matched sound of Lyngdorf Amp which I think is impressive. I used relatively cheap QED cables £200 for a pair.
Like I.said. biwiring is for if you have your amps crossed over. If you don't have your amps crossed over your feeding bass into your tweeter. A BIG NO NO
deciding on cables can't be done by "changing and listening". that's a common mistake in audiophile community. because the only viable test is double blind test. listener must be "blind" on what exactly have changed if changed at all.
My aged friend is an audiophile with huge knowledge and professional experience. He reckons household mains wiring is the best. Spending any more is a waste. My speakers have been bi wired for decades. They sound great. I did it because it was the fashion in the 1980s
Yes I’ve used mains wire in the past it’s just fine I mean there are small differences in cables truly You have to be pretty rich to justify the small advantages of expensive cables. K
Mains cable for the woofer, silver for the tweeter is the best option, model railway silver large track bus wire is the ultimate speaker cable: High frequencies travel much better with silver wire, thats why we use it in digital model railways: search ebay for "Large track bus wire" then with your drill make it into a twisted pair.
Twisted pure silver or silver plated in cotton or PTFE insulation sounds a liitle better, but I agree, the expense is injustified, if the system is not up to scratch.
@@paulb4661 hi I had a friend with thousands and thousands of pounds worth of Linn equipment, he swore by using solid core copper wiring the sort that electrician's use for your plug sockets. He sold me his old Linn Nexus speakers and wired them up using this this ring main wiring cable into my system and it did sound good.
If you like the tweaking you can do with cables, you can use for example Belden cable. High capacitance leads to the suppression of the higher frequencies somewhat. I use 1800B, probably this is also great for bi-wiring.Try it for your tweeters, as it’s highly revealing. I like 1313a as well, this is thicker and quite high in capacitance.
Van Damme make various cables etc mainly for muscians playing live or when recording... guitar/bass etc & microphones, all types of studio & live playing cables..they have a Road Series & Studio Series & do quad balanced cables for mic's & active monitors.... they use good quality OFC copper, are very flexable, come in a variety of types... mono, stereo, balanced, quad balanced....i use Van Damme Road & Studio Series cables when playing bass live or when recording...my bass guitar cable, pedal cables ,mic cable & speaker cabinet/s cables (2 x 2.5mm diameter cable, non sheilded) are all Van Damme....their very good value & quality for the price.....
You are turly a legend! I live in Surrey and would like to invite you over to have a look at my setup and maybe you can review it all at the same time.....? Denon Amp 3801 - 7 301 Bose / Mission speaker floor standing - other side of room is a Sony amp with SSb4ed speaker floor standing and book shellf. strange set up that I need help with.
Hi there I liked your video. I'm I the process of making a little stupid for my garage. I have an arcam xeta one a/v amplifier. Is it possible to get some sound from it? With two celestial k12t-100 with tweeters all running off of one cable it seams. I can't see in the housing to see what the tweeters are. And input is large jack. Any help would be appreciated. Also there are many ports on the back of the amp do I just head for the loudspeaker outputs. Although there is front, surround and centre.
Try equal length 14awg wires on tweeters and 16awg wires on woofers. then swap them around the other way and compare. Or with different gauge (14awg + 11awg...) but you get the gist. Also, I like to use 14/4 wire (14awg, 4 conductor) since I can use it for 14awg/4c Bi-Wire, 14awg/4c Bi-amp or twist 2 conductors together to make a 11awg/2c wire.
What do I need to do to make a center speaker that has 2 binding posts to make it with 4 so I can bi amp it except changing the speaker,the centre has 4 5.2 inch woffers and the tweeter is the klipsh RP 504c,I'm bi amping the front l and r so I need to do the same thing to center , have 2 extra basx A2 is a waist not to use them,but I can't change the centre I just bought it along with l and r main speakers,is bad enough finding out that the new RP line got out a month after I got the my RP 8000f and the RP 504c,so can I do something to the centre so I can bi amp it?
Very nice! My question is: if you combine the two reds and two blues into one banana plug each going into one post in the amp, do you still get the tweeter and woofer separated in different speakers (if you switch off A or B)? See 3:27. And where do you connect on the amp using four banana plugs? All A or a B posts or a mixture of A and B posts?
In my experience it does improve sound quality and the noise floor lowers but ONLY when bi wiring is done and healing crystals are placed in a deltoid pattern at the base of the speakers and amplifiers. Works even better with crystals placed around the source aswell as on the listeners pants pockets.
Could you sometime show the inside of a speaker that has two sets of speaker connections. Im still not clear on why biwiring helps. Id be curious to see the signal path. Thanks!
Dynaudio don't offer it on their speakers and they should know. It's a marketing ploy and manufacturers of cheap speakers are pretending that their gear is better than what it really is. Not much of a cost having twin terminals.
LONDON STEREO REVIEW X … and I am absorbing my daily dose of this channel and of course it’s Host the most helping and knowledgeable Mr Kelvin …. I have gone riight back x2 years and will watch a new / old upload as this sought after HIFI experience is invaluable… my late father who passed x2 years ago this August would have been absolutely HOOKED just like I am .. so glad we have the power of the internet to TOTALLY ENJOY THIS … Kelvin your internet Soldiers are out here … I been spreading the word to my work mates and there are all involved as well .. GOOD LUCK MATE AND WELL ON YAH .. a MASSIVE THANK YOU FOR SUCH VALUABLE INSIGHT … PERFECT 👍
Coupla things. BW is all about commning the input to the speakers back at the amp terminals, not so much that one of the input wires runs direct to the terminal of the tweeter. Using AB switching outputs on an amp is sort of a no no for a variety of reasons but mainly because some amps (pretty ordinary ones) have the AB speaker switching wiring both pairs in series. This will create very odd results if you are biwiring.
Great review as always..I’ve used all types of cable, I’ve used Belden in the past and its really good. But now I look on the auction site and I’ve always come up with some bargains for really decent cable,although it all seems a bit of a lottery as to what improvement in sound you will achieve. I’ve used that Van Damme speaker cable and it comes in different thicknesses, it’s pretty good for the price too ..
Van Damme is a "pro" cable, and probably looked down on by audiophiles. But it's affordable and rugged! If it's good enough for Pink Floyd, it ok by me.
I notice with respect your honoust observations....but i was also impressed by a blind listening test one can see on utube between a highend expensif sysyem and wires and a very cheap , with cheap wires ,both with the same small ATC 2way speakers....the cheap used behringer poweramp with sony cheap player...the other used YBA pre and poweramp ,top expensif cables , yop teac vrds cd etc....most coulnd't tell difference and about the same amount of listeners prefered the cheap or the expensif system...all trained hifi enthusiasts and equipment hidden , only speakers apparent....notice the amps are both 2x100 watts with generous trafo....because clipping from underpowering is easily exposed
I don’t really believe in bi-wiring. The crossover in the loudspeaker separates the frequencies sending the highs to the tweeter and the lows to the woofer if you single wire. Now, in bi-wiring, we bypass the crossover and by doing this we feed both the tweeter and the woofer with the full range of frequencies. It’s not a secret that tweeters in general don’t cope well with low frequency and some woofer get “distracted” by high frequencies.
Bi-wiring does not bypass the crossover. Bi-wiring results in low range frequency current being carried to the bass driver with one cable. A separate cable carries high range frequency current to the tweeter. Despite being connected together at the amplifier, the two cables are carrying differing currents to the speaker drivers. The crossover in the speaker is still in place and doing it's job.
@@ProffAndy How do the cables carry highs in one and lows in the other? Magic? Unless you have a crossover in your amp the wires are all carrying the same signal. It's measurable using a spectro. The speaker crossover does all the filtering. Bi wiring is the perfect example of enjoying a placebo effect.
@@spudpud-T67 No magic required, just fairly simply physics. I get that the concept of bi-wring can be confusing, and it can seem that there's no way that high and low audio frequency currents can be carried separately by two cables connected together at the amplifier, but that is exactly what is happening in a bi-wire configuration. I`ve tried to explain this a fair few times, and usually my explanation gets ignored, or simply dismissed as nonsense. I have never claimed that bi-wiring produces any audible improvement (or even change), just like I'm sceptical about claims that different types of speaker cable can make very noticeable changes in audio. However, there is no doubt that different speaker cables will have slightly different electrical characteristics, which in theory will alter the current flow through the speaker (usually by a miniscule amount ). Switching from single wiring to bi-wiring will in most cases alter the current flow through the speaker drivers to a slightly larger degree than simply switching to "better" cables. Is that change in current flow enough to be detected by human ears ? I'm not sure, but bi-wring does "split" high and low frequency currents which are carried to the speaker in separate cables.
@@ProffAndy Unless you have a crossover in your amp you get the same signal passing along both wires. Only in the speaker crossover does the signal get filtered. What I'm poking fun at is people thinking the treble and bass signals obediently take different cables. Check the cables with a spectro to show same signal at the end of all cables coming from single amp. However contrary to you statement above "bi wiring doesn't make improvements" it does improve sound but only as a placebo effect.
I do believe in cables. They really do make a difference.
I've tried my system a number of times without cables and nothing, zip, nada , zilch.
The best cables are 100% gold platted between the thighs of a virgin .
K
@@stereoreviewx Ahh, like a good cigar right?
I agree 100% but you need good ears, and trained ears, thats why so many post false claims in saying it makes no difference.
Instablaster.
Aaahhh No!! Biwiring does not REMOVE circuitry! How could it? What have you removed? You have ADDED twice the cable... You've quite literally INcreased circuitry. Think of cables as resistors (and they are). What you are doing is changing WHERE the cable resistance is placed in the crossover schematic. Yes..... Biwiring can change the sound. But not for the better, in my experiences. It's just different, and it's probably not how the crossover was voiced by the designer. Adding resistance between the High and Low halves of the crossover will change the sound, and it's likely that the crossover was designed with the 2 halves connected together (ie... both halves being driven by the same EXACT signal). If you separate that connection at the crossover input, suddenly both halves are not seeing the same exact voltage signal. I've found that driver integration suffers with biwiring. Your mileage may vary.
Hey Mate, sorry to say that but you are talking a little rubbish here. Your description about the sound difference is almost right and what you said about mixing different cables is correct too, but your technical explanation sucks ;-)
1st - Your tweeter cable does NOT connect to the tweeter directly, not even with a x-over of the 1st order (just a capacitor in line). And not one cable (pole) either. Yes physically you are connecting it directly to one side of the coil of the chassis but this is not how an electric circuit works. Remove one pole and there is no circuit anymore.
2nd - It does not sound better because you have double the cable. Different frequencies travel differently over the cable. Lower frequencies need more power so they benefit from cables with larger cross-sections When you do bi-wiring you have effectively doubled the cross-section, but only one pair is connected to the woofer, so the effective cross-section stays the same. Higher frequencies benefit from larger surfaces or surfaces with a lower impedance, that's why silver-coated cables are more brilliant on the high frequencies. But the same that goes for the woofer is true for the tweeter, yes you doubled the surface but you are only connecting one pair of cables, so the surface area that connects to the tweeter stays the same.
So the question is why can you still hear a difference? Is it psycho-acoustics? No it is not. The difference is that you extended the length of the connection between your woofer and your tweeter and therefore you obviously increased the resistance. You had like 2cm before bi-wiring, now you have 6m cable between them. When the woofer starts to resonate it creates a higher frequency signal by itself, and this signal feeds right into the tweeter. With bi-wiring you are suppressing this feedback by the resistance of the cable, that's it.
So what you hear is a more precise soundstage and details. Your impression that maybe even your midrange sounds better in kind of true and false, yes it sounds better because the harmonics are better recreated by the tweeter.
Now be brave and do one about bi-amping so that I can really start laughing ;-) I am just making fun of you, good channel anyway coz at the end all that matters is how it sounds like, trust your ears, they work well!
When I looked inside one of the Twitter terminal just go straight to the tweeter
@@stereoreviewx yes one wire goes there directly, that's true, but it is a circuit and in this circuit, there is at least one capacitor otherwise, you would burn the tweeter.
@@stereoreviewx Duh!
Omg I thought you were going to debunk right here but I’m not sure if you did. The biwiring makes the low and high frequencies travel in separate cables. This is like man and wife travelling in same car trying to achieve favourite shopping destinations. Neither is 100% happy with their shopping productivity. With biwiring, it’s like the two shoppers can go in their own separate cars. They are no longer affected by each other’s journey at all. So for each one, the trip is more efficient. Heavy currents of bass notes can affect the phasing / timing of higher frequencies travelling in the same cable - THIS IS THE REASON biwiring works. If you ever find your system sounds better when you make sure no mains wires pass near any interconnects... same thing.
@@LeeTanczos Sorry but this is not true since you are still splitting the signal in low/high frequencies in the x-over located in the speaker, not at the amp. Both cables carry the same signal to the speaker.
I've tried biwiring my Mission 760iSE and I honestly can't tell any difference. It only really works in systems which use active crossovers and bi-amping; one amp each for HF and LF. I'm not convinced by cables either. They are basically just copper conductors carrying a small voltage. The only things that really matter are; 1. Never use that thin crappy "bell wire" stuff, 2. Keep your cable runs as short as possible without over tensioning them. 3. Make sure your banana plugs (or whatever) are properly connected to the cable ends; preferably soldered.
So forgive me for saying so, but your explanation of HOW to bi-wire is poor and uninformative.
Why do people make informative videos, which don't inform? Pointless.
I want to know how to actually do it step by step, not if it sounds better, I wouldn't be doing it if it didn't!!.
2:15 The second benefit is "This wiring will go direct to the tweeter without going through the crossover". I am surprised by such a lack of understanding. I've been designing high performance speakers for over 30 years and have never provided a bi-wire option. If anything, having the option to bi-wire on a loudspeaker can often mean the crossover is less optimally designed than it could be. Manufacturers don't believe it makes a difference, but are compelled to include them for fear of losing a sale to a competitor. I guess one cannot argue with the claim, "but I can hear a difference" because those making the claim refuse to be subject to any form of controlled test, but at least it allows the rest of us to judge the credibility of their opinions about other aspects of audio. Sorry Kelvin, I have the greatest respect for you and I always enjoy your videos, but was disappointed by this one. I would have thought someone like you would be dispelling these myths not reinforcing them.
Some people seem to think the lows keep obediently to one cable and the highs to another. It's the same signal in both wires arriving at the speaker terminals. Bi wiring is an example of the placebo effect.
@@spudpud-T67Wrong! Why cannot people look into this from an electronics point of view? Because of the load provided by the tweeter and high pass network, and the woofer and low pass network, which are completely separate in the biwire configuration (the jumper links removed) the demand of the load in both cases is different, ensuring that the high frequency current travels down the tweeter wire and the low frequency current down the woofer wire.
@@rogerwebb7501 We have looked, hence the statement.
@@spudpud-T67Erm, what do you mean 'we have looked' at what?
I discovered decades ago that high quality speaker cables dramatically improved the KEF speakers I had at that time: more spacious etc. As an engineer, this seemed likely because of the relatively high current involved after the power amplifier but I remained a sceptic about interconnects at signal level, ie from CD player or network player to the amp. No longer! I became convinced to lash out £50 on an RCA interconnect by PS Audio and boy, did it make a difference. I was completely gobsmacked that changing the cable carrying such a tiny current could make a difference but it did! Now you’ve convinced me to at least try bi-wiring which I’ve also been sceptical of. I love experimenting.
no, but they bring good profits to the cable manufacturers
Bi-Wiring is just OK, you should consider Bi-Amping, a whole different level in sound!
Just make sure you remove the metal bridges(Jumpers) between the 2 speaker terminals or you will fry your amps!
bi amping can actually sound worse due to phasing issues, im a musician and can vouch for this. there is always a delay of sound between amps unless they are identical and serviced.
@@Synthematix I use an active crossover, it eliminates that issue and I can equalize my speakers to my liking.
I use a tube power amp for the midrange and high frequencies and a solid state power amp for my low frequencies with great results!
Hi Kelvin, nice video and I've just subscribed to your channel too, so thanks.
I agree, I bi-wire my main system using Mogami W3104 quad cable, which is fantastic stuff. It doesn't take any components out of the circuit, but it does separate the signals in the wires, reducing crosstalk between high and low frequencies. This is the part that some people don't actually believe, of course, because they think that it's all the same at the amp end.
I agree with you on interconnects too. I thought I'd have a go at making my own and I love them so much I sold all my Chord Company cables, even though I'd been using them for years.
I've been watching your videos for about a week now. You're my primary source of info, more experience than most. I like that you don't insult other people for their opinions.
Utter nonsense 😀
Hello Kelvin. We've all heard a lot of the arguments around the effectiveness of cables. Like you, I enjoy swapping gear out to listen to the same track of music to see what the differences may be. I hadn't put a lot of belief in cables making a noticeable difference... after this episode I'll be checking it out. Also.... thanks for explaining about bi-wiring... I'll be giving that a go as well. Cheers from Canada!
if you really want to hear a difference with cables, use some thin crappy wire on one speaker and some nicer 12 gauge on the other. you'll notice right away the issue. whether this is just a loss in "a few db" as a recording engineer might say, or something deeper in the sound, I haven't investigated enough to know, but you know what people who care will say.
More BI wire baloney .
Absolutely way way better than single wire, im not really good in hooking up wiring, just relying on youtube, but when i try it my self the right way of Bi wiring , its just phenomenal you can easily say everything has change from good to excellent.
As an electronics engineer by trade and as a guitarist by hobby I will say this.
A speaker / audio transducer is an electric motor. It converts electrical energy into mechanical energy. As long as the cables can carry the voltage and current then it doesn't matter if there is one or two cables.
Lol 😊
My expirence with BiWire has always been creating clearer mid range , less congested sound , better clarity , slighlty cleaner space and spatial resolution.
you gullible goose
Not being disrespectful but at your age your hearing is probably compromised.
If you can hear a difference you're probably imagining it.
Bi wiring does diddly squat, everyone who's anyone in audio knows that.
Make a video where you are blindfolded and someone is changing (or not changing) between regular wiring and biwiring, if you can pick the times the biwiring is playing I'll eat my undies
Well it’s an interesting picture you paint if I can’t hear well but I think I can hear differences in cables which I certainly do.
I mean my whole channel is full of me talking about small differences.
So I must be either deluded on a monster scale or I know what I’m talking about.
You can decide.
I certainly want to do some blind tests by the way they’re just a bit more tricky to film.
K
@@stereoreviewx Placebo is much more likely why you think you hear a difference.
needed a bit more visuals on the Bi wiring. its all new to me .thanks
Lgbti wiring my friend, get the latest.
I just fulfilled a long--time, childish fetish dream and upgraded from two mono amps to four... the unused spare connections on the speakers and the pre.amp always gave me autism :D With great power comes great responsibility at the power knob, as the adage goes...
Surely having two cables running from a connector from the amp is exactly the same as bridging the connectors on the back of the speakers?
@John Kelly read my above post.
It makes absolutely no difference. Logically and electronically to think otherwise is insane. Using modern speaker cable you will get no difference. The A and B terminals on the amp receive the same power, when using both they are bridged, just like the bridge plates on the speaker's terminals. So you've effectively removed the bridge plates from the speaker end and attached them on the amp end... how is that making any difference?
No difference to reality but big difference to the placebo effect.
Kelvin not heard anything from you in months. Hope your ok pal really missing your reviews but mainly hoping your ok my friend.
Head to the shed and nick the cables from your old Arc Welder, and hook them up to your system. It worked very well for me for 25 years, until I invested in some quality Japaneses Speaker Cables of a similar gauge (thickness), 15 years ago. Thicker Cables do take wrestling to get them were you want. Also depending on the Banana Sockets Mounts, you may need to suspend very heavy Cables to remove pressure of the Banana Sockets.
SCIENCE: Signals move along the skin of a wire, so the more wires, the greater the surface area the signal can use. Also the lower the Resistance, less energy is lost (heat). The more pure the copper used the easier for the electrons to travel, the more efficient the cable, and lower resistance.
Yeah....Nope! As others have said, you can't bypass any of the crossover circuitry. It wouldn't be able to do its job if you bypassed anything! (anything significant, at least).
Using different cables for LF/HF could indeed "change things", but only for the worse. Some "amateur audiophile" tinkerer playing around (yes, playing!) knows better than the company that designed the crossover? Hmm, sure! Cables can only add LOSS. If you use very thin cable on the LF, sure, you'll lose some bass. You'd have to use insanely rubbish cable to have any significant impact on the HF side. Cables can't "add" anything, they can only detract, so if you're hearing differences from these "tweaks", it's because you're introducing loss in the signal path. Speaker cables either provide sufficient current-carrying capabilities, or they don't. Only on the "don't" side of it will they change the sound. Any actual "improvements" are placebo at best, IMHO. The manual for my Rogers LS3/5A speakers does, somewhat surprisingly, recommend bi-wiring. They make vague claims of "improving the stability and depth of the stereo image", which sounds like the sort of word-salad rubbish that they print in What Hifi? magazine. I remain thoroughly unconvinced about bi-wiring. It simply makes no sense. I can see how your typical "audiophile" would buy into this rubbish, but from a more technical standpoint it just doesn't make sense. "Audiophiles" are like the "quack doctors" of audio engineering. The vast majority of them have very limited technical/audio engineering knowledge and just repeat what other "audiophiles" have claimed. Probably true of that Rogers manual, too! In that case, I feel they do know better, but are telling the customer what they want to hear!
Got a pair of Monitor Audio speakers today and ran them normally and biwired. I'd say theres more clarity for sure when biwired.
Next week passive bi-amping:) I have an Arcam A80 and a P80, but it is a very very little difference, not worth it, better buy one good amp the price of the two amps together:)
Throw this whole video away. So much bs
so is thicker wire better for the Lows or the thinner wire?
If you bi-wire to separate channels on your amp and if your amp has gain controls you can tweak your high and low outputs and change the sound. Throw that in with an EQ and you can use lamp cord (which back in the day was 12ga solid copper) and it won't matter.
I like to listen to Jazz so the only thing that i was contemplating with biwiring is higher treble on the high hats or trumpet/sax solos. I own a pair of $3500 speakers running from a 130wpc Sansui amp and a dac, and biwiring was noticeable at first, how can i describe, the instruments became minutely cleaner, tighter. Personally I found highs to be too shiny to the point that it was noticeable and after a few hours, fatiguing and annoying. I've gone back to wire jumpers and single cable. Much better. I probably tend to like a more warm, mellowed, chilled tone, like that of a double bass or a jazzbox guitar. Maybe i need to buy myself a tube preamp... yes lets talk about tubes! I only trust my ears. Its like drinking wine or scotch - a very subjective experience at the end of the day.
Cheers my friend I’ll have a German weissbier
@@stereoreviewx Franziskaner or Erdinger?
I am yet to do my Dedicated study upon the difference. I confess to having a part of me skeptical to the significant difference. I know i have heard speakers sound great - on just 'doorbell' wires - yes shock horror to the audiophile world! But to hear the difference i feel you have to give it your 110% to really notice. I have Quad 12l's bi-wired but i need to swap the large and slim cables across to really know - good test from you there Kelvin, and thanks again
i do believe cables make a difference but i also feel a slight side of mentality makes u maybe think its better lol great video mate thanks heaps :)
Cables, they certainly contribute to the sound but it is nothing significant. But Bi-Wiring certainly do contribute quite significantly to the overall sound quality. I would say even more than 4%. In my case I would say that the sound betterred by even 10%. It was audible at first listen immediately.
Do you have a cross over in your amp before the output terminals? Otherwise the signal is the same in the two wires to the speaker but then filtered after the speaker crossover. Hearing bi wiring differences is the perfect example of placebo effect.
@@spudpud-T67As I've pointed out before, the two elements of the crossover are separated by taking out jumpers between the upper and lower terminals. You now have two completely different 'branches', the point at which the highs and lows branch being now at the amplifier end rather than the speaker end. The high pass filter will 'demand' that the high frequency current flows along the tweeter wire, and the low pass filter will 'demand' that the low frequency current flows along the woofer wire.
That split point at the amplifier end is, in a single wire (normal) configuration, inside the speaker cabinet - usually part of the printed circuit board for speakers with one pair of terminals.
@@rogerwebb7501 Thats a theory some state. Even going as far as to say they hear a difference, but that's not how the signal in the system works.
@@spudpud-T67 It's not a theory, it's a scientific fact! It IS how a crossover and its associated wiring works! The crossover is frequency dependent...each leg of it, that is: It divides the two groups (or three...or four) by frequency and feeds the treble to the tweeter, and the bass to the woofer. I think the trouble is you don't understand WHERE that split occurs. Ina biwire setup the split is dragged back to the amplifier end....rather than being inside the speaker cabinet.
After so much nonsens, the video start at 1:29
Bi-wiring doen't "remove" any crossover parts: the crossover is (say) a high pass section and a low pass section.
As you say, you are using a "fatter" cable, but you may get the same results with two (different) cables and the shunts still on the speaker.
It's better to not think about the $5 crossovers inside your speaker when you spend $2k on cables.
Dead right mate it does make a difference you can hear a lot more going on Nice Vid
It makes no difference whatsoever. What you are ''hearing'' is 100% in your head. You only THINK you can hear a difference even though there is none.
@@zedcarr6128 Yes they do I also have very good hearing not like yours, Bye Bye
@@stevepickering5978 no it don’t. It’s in your head
I'm running Fyne Audio F502 from a Yamaha A-S1200 amp. I'm using a double run of Kimber 4VS to bi-wire. The bi-wiring makes a good improvement over the single cable run.
If your tweeter is a piezo transducer then virtually NO current will be flowing through the cable feeding it because they are voltage controlled devices NOT current controlled devices like a moving coil speaker.
I suggest that people who are into HiFi, educate themselves in electronics. It will save you a lot of money. Or just ask a qualified electronics engineer on the Interwebs.
tried bi wiring couldnt hear any difference. best tweak i did got a mains conditioner and upgraded my power supply, immediate result in better sound
Greetings from Scotland. ..yep I'm in agreement with you...I used an ex BT 3 gang mains conditioner from eBay very heavy....wow my screen improved and my sound, best upgrade on the cheap ever
Linn black interconnect is hard to beat, it can make a big difference. Get it cheap used on Ebay.
i had a Sugden A48 it was a great amp paired with Tannoy Cheviot Speakers and a Rega 3 Turntable they sounded Fantastic together but sadly the Sugden died i wish i still had it
The Sugden a 48 is a killer Amp I did a review of it if you’re interested
Allways happy to listen to these experiences....some blind listening tests brought surprises about cables...
I like your Idea about it playing out over time. I have bought a few nice cables like Kimber & Straight wire they have served me for my whole life!
“I did a proper scientific thing, I listened to them”
...not science lol. Maybe the science of psychology.
I fully support your tinkering and enjoying your system by the way. But it’s not science, and listening to the same song does not make it a controlled experiment.
The science of electricity passing through wires is well understood and measurable. Basically if you are using a cable as a tone control, there’s something off about your cable.
Hey there, new to your channel and really like the advice. Got a question, I have a Yamaha RXA3080 and wanted to know if it makes sense to run a Pioneer M-72 4x100 watt amp through the Yamaha pre-outs to i-amp front LSI-9 Polk speakers or just use one of the Yamaha's channels not being used on my 5.1.2 set up? Thanks Ron
Once again, I have to agree with you. Sensible choice of cables when bi-wiring is usually a worthwhile improvement. The next step, bi-amping, I have found makes an even better improvement. The ulimate, going 'active' using active crossovers instead of the passive ones inside the speaker cabinet, can make a massive difference.
👏GOOD ADVICE…had this “FUN “ years ago 🤗 now I have settled in bi-wiring with Tara Lab cables and👍 🤗😍😍😍
Totally BS. Open up your amp and you would see that your connectors are interconnected to each other. So it doesn’t really matter if you leave your Amp with one cable and then connect to the four speaker connectors or run two sepperate cables from your amp to your speakers. Also your High. Mid and lows are separated on the Crossover. So there is absolutely no need for Bi-wire ring.
Long winded and miss leading, Bi wire = both red cables at the amp end into red socket and at the speaker end the 2 red wires connect to the red sockets, same idea with the black cables. Bi amp which is what your showing, requires 2 red and 2 black at both ends connect as you would for left channel and then connect the other speaker the same using the right channel outputs.
Pointless waste of money and time. It actually slightly and measurable increases bridged distortion in the amp and single runs of low dcr speaker cable are technically better, cheaper and all that is needed. There's never been one shred of proof that biwiring improves anything. By the way "listening tests" are NOT a scientific test of anything😉 if people prefer the results, great. Lets not get carried away and use non representative sample subjective assessment as proof of anything more than personal preference. You are not cutting out ANY meaningful circuitry by doing it.. that's complete nonesense.
“You know”
depends on the interconnect resistance you need to go for coaxial cable 75 ohms for interconnect if it's digital source, analogue source go for 50 Ohm's into a preamp or Poweramp 50 ohms give you about 2 of 3 DB drop in output what is preferred for solid-state don't do this from valve stick with 75 ohms. Belden cable is probably the best cheapest. Always use 60 50 or 30 ohms possibly from turntable to preamp don't go with 75 ohms this will give you less output as I said but makes a cartridge more sensitive
Hi Kelvin,
I want to try this but my speakers, Dahlquist M905's only have 2 terminals.What should I do?Thanks.
Nothing you can’t do it K
Thanks a lot
Do what the speaker manufacturer wanted you to do!
I only believe in Bi Wiring if you plug tweeters on A and Bass on B that is using A+B together.that is two channels on your amplifier.4 outs on the amp.if not is all shite.
And the old Tannoy speakers used only a first order crossover.. just a cap on the tweeter and inductor on the woofer ...
Bi-wiring is only possible if you have A+B outputs on your amp, otherwise, you are just connecting both wires to the same output.
Cables make the last 5 to 10 percent ....given a high(er) quality chain.
*quad-amp with active crossover, and internal crossover disconnected is the way to go*
Thanks for the detailed explanation. I will Bi-Wire today!
p.s. My test-song for the last 10 years is always Behemoth - Decade of Therion
So how’d it go?
I’m just wondering if I should do this on my klipsch 600m
i tried ti my klipsch rb81 ii .. it sounds fuller, bass more tightly.. the harshness of the klipsch reduce.
What is the idea behind biwiring ?
It is that some frequencies degrade some others and more precisely that low frequencies degrade high frequencies!
- First, why it wouldn’t be the opposite ?
Getting into it, it would mean that a 365Hz would influence a 370Hz but also all frequencies in between. So pushing things further, in the ideal you shouldn’t “biwire” but “thousand-wire” or more, for as many significative frequencies with as many wires required!
- Second if that was the case you wouldn’t be able to have any electronic equipment, like. spectrum analyzer! Another example is that you’ll never be able to get a square curve. This is pure electronic facts.
This theory isn’t holding up ! Ask yourself why biwiring is done only in audio and more precisely only for the speakers’ cables !!!!
There are two types of biwiring.
Either the filters are on the drivers’s sides or they are on the amplifier’s side.
Roughtly in both cases, your amp will have to deal with two different impedances, specially if you use different cables for low & high, but the driver manufacturer has no clue of the impedances of your wires so they cannot calculate their filters in function. They made their filters supposing a same impedance cable, they cannot do otherwise unless they sell you the cables going with it but they won’t know the length you need. So biwiring doesn’t bring any avantage but furthermore it is a problem, you just double your wire cost for a degraded sound.
To sum it up, biwiring unbalance the impedances between the high and the low frequencies of your speakers which haven’t been calculated for because it is impossible.
I would say there’s two things going on
One inside the speaker you are having a shorter path to the driver it’s not going through the crossover board certainly one wire isn’t
The other thing is kind of basic which is you’ve doubled the amount of cable
@@stereoreviewx Crossover just after the amp, or just before the speaker make not much difference. In either case you have a certain length of cable to reach the speaker, so a certain impedance to factor. The manufacturer has to make an impedance choice to calculate its crossover and it is same for both High and Low. The worse scenario is having two different cables for High & Low.
When you say cables matter, you are right in the sense that some would have a better matching impedance for the couple Amp/Speaker. Some also may be better protected against magnetic fields around.
@@stereoreviewx There is no shorter or unfiltered path. The signal whether traveling through one cable or twenty will pass through the crossover. A capacitor for the high pass and an inductor for the low pass. Which frequency do you suggest doesn't need filtering?
Selecting both A+B increases the amp ohms. Running it like that on an lower ohm speakers stress out your amp
Amps drive speakers, the load, or impedance the speakers present is expressed in ohms, speakers with lower impedance require more current from the amplifier, 4ohm speakers will draw twice the current compared to 8ohm speakers.
What happens if you don't remove the plates
The plates just connect one positive to the other positive or negative to the other negative so you then just connect one positive one negative as normal with one lead if you were to take the plates out you would connected to the woofer or the tweeter
@@stereoreviewx I know that. But recently I hooked up some new speakers with my biwire kimbers and forgot to take off the plates. I don't think it caused any damage. Currently using a class D
Tried bi-wiring/bi-amping with my Arcam AVR20 (you can enable bi-amp feature for fronts) and it did open the soundstage more and matched sound of Lyngdorf Amp which I think is impressive. I used relatively cheap QED cables £200 for a pair.
Hmmm if you are so good in hearing sound problems. Why is your video so noisy then?
what your talking about is crossover ,,no how many wires you use you need a cross over ,,this is new to me ,,,,
Like I.said. biwiring is for if you have your amps crossed over. If you don't have your amps crossed over your feeding bass into your tweeter. A BIG NO NO
You mustn’t feed passenger Twitter it will blow up immediately
deciding on cables can't be done by "changing and listening". that's a common mistake in audiophile community. because the only viable test is double blind test.
listener must be "blind" on what exactly have changed if changed at all.
I can’t see when I’m connected
so I don’t know how I can do it😀
Nice video! I'm going to try this with my stereo.
I thought biwirable speakers didn't have crossovers.
I'm bi wired, so my therapist told me
I am the polar opposite
@@stereoreviewx Bi-Polar = Bi- Winning! [Charlie Sheen] 😄 👍
My aged friend is an audiophile with huge knowledge and professional experience. He reckons household mains wiring is the best. Spending any more is a waste. My speakers have been bi wired for decades. They sound great. I did it because it was the fashion in the 1980s
Yes I’ve used mains wire in the past it’s just fine I mean there are small differences in cables truly
You have to be pretty rich to justify the small advantages of expensive cables.
K
Mains cable for the woofer, silver for the tweeter is the best option, model railway silver large track bus wire is the ultimate speaker cable:
High frequencies travel much better with silver wire, thats why we use it in digital model railways:
search ebay for "Large track bus wire" then with your drill make it into a twisted pair.
Speaker cables haha, good old twin multicore copper is all you need with a marker stripe
Twisted pure silver or silver plated in cotton or PTFE insulation sounds a liitle better, but I agree, the expense is injustified, if the system is not up to scratch.
@@paulb4661 hi I had a friend with thousands and thousands of pounds worth of Linn equipment, he swore by using solid core copper wiring the sort that electrician's use for your plug sockets. He sold me his old Linn Nexus speakers and wired them up using this this ring main wiring cable into my system and it did sound good.
Bi-wiring only makes sense if using different type cables
I allways do this using two amps, the right channel runs woof and left covers tweet. One dual mono amp per speaker.
Too much talk and less substance.
If you like the tweaking you can do with cables, you can use for example Belden cable. High capacitance leads to the suppression of the higher frequencies somewhat. I use 1800B, probably this is also great for bi-wiring.Try it for your tweeters, as it’s highly revealing. I like 1313a as well, this is thicker and quite high in capacitance.
Van Damme make various cables etc mainly for muscians playing live or when recording... guitar/bass etc & microphones, all types of studio & live playing cables..they have a Road Series & Studio Series & do quad balanced cables for mic's & active monitors.... they use good quality OFC copper, are very flexable, come in a variety of types... mono, stereo, balanced, quad balanced....i use Van Damme Road & Studio Series cables when playing bass live or when recording...my bass guitar cable, pedal cables ,mic cable & speaker cabinet/s cables (2 x 2.5mm diameter cable, non sheilded) are all Van Damme....their very good value & quality for the price.....
How t wire technics SB -EH760 tri wire speakers ?
You are turly a legend! I live in Surrey and would like to invite you over to have a look at my setup and maybe you can review it all at the same time.....? Denon Amp 3801 - 7 301 Bose / Mission speaker floor standing - other side of room is a Sony amp with SSb4ed speaker floor standing and book shellf. strange set up that I need help with.
Yes.. It creates an audible difference
Hi there I liked your video. I'm I the process of making a little stupid for my garage. I have an arcam xeta one a/v amplifier. Is it possible to get some sound from it? With two celestial k12t-100 with tweeters all running off of one cable it seams. I can't see in the housing to see what the tweeters are. And input is large jack. Any help would be appreciated. Also there are many ports on the back of the amp do I just head for the loudspeaker outputs. Although there is front, surround and centre.
Try equal length 14awg wires on tweeters and 16awg wires on woofers. then swap them around the other way and compare. Or with different gauge (14awg + 11awg...) but you get the gist.
Also, I like to use 14/4 wire (14awg, 4 conductor) since I can use it for 14awg/4c Bi-Wire, 14awg/4c Bi-amp or twist 2 conductors together to make a 11awg/2c wire.
What do I need to do to make a center speaker that has 2 binding posts to make it with 4 so I can bi amp it except changing the speaker,the centre has 4 5.2 inch woffers and the tweeter is the klipsh RP 504c,I'm bi amping the front l and r so I need to do the same thing to center , have 2 extra basx A2 is a waist not to use them,but I can't change the centre I just bought it along with l and r main speakers,is bad enough finding out that the new RP line got out a month after I got the my RP 8000f and the RP 504c,so can I do something to the centre so I can bi amp it?
Very nice! My question is: if you combine the two reds and two blues into one banana plug each going into one post in the amp, do you still get the tweeter and woofer separated in different speakers (if you switch off A or B)? See 3:27. And where do you connect on the amp using four banana plugs? All A or a B posts or a mixture of A and B posts?
what you do is bi-amping ? (don't know the amp)
Hi bi-amping in it's true form is using separate power amps for bass and treble, Like bi-wiring only with At least two power amplifiers.
In my experience it does improve sound quality and the noise floor lowers but ONLY when bi wiring is done and healing crystals are placed in a deltoid pattern at the base of the speakers and amplifiers. Works even better with crystals placed around the source aswell as on the listeners pants pockets.
Could you sometime show the inside of a speaker that has two sets of speaker connections. Im still not clear on why biwiring helps. Id be curious to see the signal path. Thanks!
Dynaudio don't offer it on their speakers and they should know. It's a marketing ploy and manufacturers of cheap speakers are pretending that their gear is better than what it really is. Not much of a cost having twin terminals.
LONDON STEREO REVIEW X … and I am absorbing my daily dose of this channel and of course it’s Host the most helping and knowledgeable Mr Kelvin …. I have gone riight back x2 years and will watch a new / old upload as this sought after HIFI experience is invaluable… my late father who passed x2 years ago this August would have been absolutely HOOKED just like I am .. so glad we have the power of the internet to TOTALLY ENJOY THIS … Kelvin your internet Soldiers are out here … I been spreading the word to my work mates and there are all involved as well .. GOOD LUCK MATE AND WELL ON YAH .. a MASSIVE THANK YOU FOR SUCH VALUABLE INSIGHT … PERFECT 👍
Forgive my ignorance but wouldn’t it be the same exact thing if I just got a thicker cable??? I don’t the bi-wire.
Coupla things. BW is all about commning the input to the speakers back at the amp terminals, not so much that one of the input wires runs direct to the terminal of the tweeter. Using AB switching outputs on an amp is sort of a no no for a variety of reasons but mainly because some amps (pretty ordinary ones) have the AB speaker switching wiring both pairs in series. This will create very odd results if you are biwiring.
Van Damme is trade broadcast grade cable, Not bad stuff really.
I bet someones making up cables from work and selling on amazon.
Damn those speakers are mighty old.
Great review as always..I’ve used all types of cable, I’ve used Belden in the past and its really good.
But now I look on the auction site and I’ve always come up with some bargains for really decent cable,although it all seems a bit of a lottery as to what improvement in sound you will achieve.
I’ve used that Van Damme speaker cable and it comes in different thicknesses, it’s pretty good for the price too ..
Van Damme is a "pro" cable, and probably looked down on by audiophiles. But it's affordable and rugged!
If it's good enough for Pink Floyd, it ok by me.
Great idea! Diff cables for each driver.
Tried it with my Cambridge axr100 and Klipsch rp5000f speakers. I did notice sound improvement and seems now have to apply less powers to speakers.
Great taste in music!
Was thinking the same thing chum
Very interesting! Good job !
I notice with respect your honoust observations....but i was also impressed by a blind listening test one can see on utube between a highend expensif sysyem and wires and a very cheap , with cheap wires ,both with the same small ATC 2way speakers....the cheap used behringer poweramp with sony cheap player...the other used YBA pre and poweramp ,top expensif cables , yop teac vrds cd etc....most coulnd't tell difference and about the same amount of listeners prefered the cheap or the expensif system...all trained hifi enthusiasts and equipment hidden , only speakers apparent....notice the amps are both 2x100 watts with generous trafo....because clipping from underpowering is easily exposed
That sounds interesting I was going to try something like that but to be honest it seem too complicated but it’s a good idea
I don’t really believe in bi-wiring. The crossover in the loudspeaker separates the frequencies sending the highs to the tweeter and the lows to the woofer if you single wire. Now, in bi-wiring, we bypass the crossover and by doing this we feed both the tweeter and the woofer with the full range of frequencies. It’s not a secret that tweeters in general don’t cope well with low frequency and some woofer get “distracted” by high frequencies.
Bi-wiring does not bypass the crossover. Bi-wiring results in low range frequency current being carried to the bass driver with one cable. A separate cable carries high range frequency current to the tweeter. Despite being connected together at the amplifier, the two cables are carrying differing currents to the speaker drivers. The crossover in the speaker is still in place and doing it's job.
@@ProffAndy How do the cables carry highs in one and lows in the other? Magic? Unless you have a crossover in your amp the wires are all carrying the same signal. It's measurable using a spectro. The speaker crossover does all the filtering. Bi wiring is the perfect example of enjoying a placebo effect.
@@spudpud-T67 No magic required, just fairly simply physics. I get that the concept of bi-wring can be confusing, and it can seem that there's no way that high and low audio frequency currents can be carried separately by two cables connected together at the amplifier, but that is exactly what is happening in a bi-wire configuration. I`ve tried to explain this a fair few times, and usually my explanation gets ignored, or simply dismissed as nonsense. I have never claimed that bi-wiring produces any audible improvement (or even change), just like I'm sceptical about claims that different types of speaker cable can make very noticeable changes in audio. However, there is no doubt that different speaker cables will have slightly different electrical characteristics, which in theory will alter the current flow through the speaker (usually by a miniscule amount ). Switching from single wiring to bi-wiring will in most cases alter the current flow through the speaker drivers to a slightly larger degree than simply switching to "better" cables. Is that change in current flow enough to be detected by human ears ? I'm not sure, but bi-wring does "split" high and low frequency currents which are carried to the speaker in separate cables.
@@ProffAndy Unless you have a crossover in your amp you get the same signal passing along both wires. Only in the speaker crossover does the signal get filtered. What I'm poking fun at is people thinking the treble and bass signals obediently take different cables. Check the cables with a spectro to show same signal at the end of all cables coming from single amp.
However contrary to you statement above "bi wiring doesn't make improvements" it does improve sound but only as a placebo effect.
@@spudpud-T67 Ask yourself "what causes a speaker driver to move, and how does it reach each driver".