I used to work with Dave and one time he bought us all doughnuts for Dust 2's birthday. It was a very surreal (and delicious) moment, celebrating a map I had spent a good portion of my teenage life on with the guy who made it. Great work as always.
That's such an awesome and wholesome story lol. I was thinking to myself while watching this like, what if I met this dude in a bar by happenstance and he brought up that he made dust 2, I would lose my mind. I'd pay for his tab immediately.
Back in the Half-Life days, I sent DaveJ a Counter-Strike map I'd made to see if he could give me some feedback. He sent me an essay back, with annotated screenshots, and wireframe images and all sorts of information about optimisation that I'd never found anywhere online. It was so awesome! I try to pay that generosity with my time forward. Thanks DaveJ!
I used to work with Dave, he is genuinely the most down to earth (and not to mention talented) individual I have met. We used to say Dave completed Level Design, just straight up completed it, and moved on to become a backend engineer to complete that too.
I also had the pleasure of working with Dave many moons ago he’s a great guy.. and whoever makes the next De_Dust map certainly has big boots to fill (literally, he had like size 16 🦶) 😊
Thank you noClip for getting those documentaries out there that make me sort of feel like a teenager again. Easier times, great and nostalgic memories. You made me have a great day today with those 30mins 'ish.
@@1882osr Such a brutally underrated map. It's got its own little cult following like some obscure indie movie. Sure maybe it's not the most balanced map in the game, especially in 1.6/Source, but it has such great atmosphere.
@@madelaki I loved cobble so much, I used to stack the bots up to 32 players and just enjoy the mayhem. I mean i did the same thing with dust as well XD it was fun in office too lol
Just listening to him explain his process it's obvious he's a complete savant at map design. To actually use your emotional/stress response to evaluate the strength/disadvantages of certain positions is incredible.
Dude's so chill about it, holy crap. de_dust2 is the most iconic map EVER CREATED. He made the map that's the first thing that gets made for any other game with an editor. It exist in every single game with a map editor - it's the first thing people try to remake. It's THE map. de_dust2 is probably the greatest multiplayer map ever made.
Crazy to think it's been 23 years since de_dust2 was released. The hype for it was immense at the time, being the sequel to THE Counter-Strike map, and not only did it deliver but it well exceeded the popularity of any other CS map. I have my own little history with this map; not to delve into it too deeply, but I made a small mark on the community that grew into something well beyond my expectations, got in touch with DaveJ because of it and befriended him for a while, and somehow that ended up getting my nickname (at the time) immortalized in the secret credits easter egg in de_dust2. It's still there in CS 1.6 to this day. I know it's just a small thing and it probably didn't mean much to him, but I am forever grateful to Dave for doing that.
>being the sequel to THE Counter-Strike map I think he downplayed how important this was to CS. I didn't play CS but know dust. Dust was pivotal to the success of CS originally. A lot of the older maps were not very good. Would CS have fared as well as it did without dust? Perhaps not.
@@fractal_aura Yep, the special mentions. Again it didn't really mean very much, I'm sure Dave just listed a bunch of his friends there at the time, and I didn't contribute to the map itself in any way. But it's kind of crazy to look back at it now, knowing what an impactful and downright _historical_ map de_dust2 is, and seeing your past nickname in there.
@@joel6376 Hard to say. When I entered the Counter-Strike fray the game was on Beta 6.5 and de_dust was already one of the most popular maps. It did have a bunch of other quality maps at the time, including Dave's own de_cbble, and the gameplay loop was fun and addictive no matter which map you played, but none of those maps had the sheer staying power that Dust did.
@@Machtyn He deserves it imo. I'm not saying they're the only good maps, far from it, but Cobble and Dust II especially have both done an insane amount of heavy lifting for Counter-Strike and its legacy.
@@fredericoo Totally but what I meant there are dust 2 only community who only plays dust and nothing else. Thats why valve made DUST2 having a seperate que in Casual mode and Deathmatch. The only map in CS who have this status.
I'm surprised *why* Dust II is so popular and beloved, as well as its legacy wasn't really explored in this. Its layout is a masterclass in complexity vs simplicity and balance, and there are innumerable popular multiplayer shooter maps whose design philosophies can be traced back to it or directly attributed to it. People study it and strive to create maps as good as it for their games to this day. This was achieved by a teenager on a family computer in the 90s.
He really balanced things out in dust2 as he said and that's what makes it amazing. Because in casual gaming, you really need balanced map for 20vs20 games etc. Not competitive games. Because you win CT more but other side plays CT too so it doesn't matter in matches. But for casual playing ,balance is most important thing and that's why D2 is awesome.
This exact type of well timed, well thought out, balanced "4 square" map is the cornerstone of basically all existing tac shooter maps in existence now. It's not merely a masterclass in good design. It's THE design.
Man, this brought back so many memories. This map was more like a chill spot when I was growing up. Where everyone would hop on Ventrilo and we'd all hang out for hours just playing d2. What an awesome video. Cheers to you and cheers to Dave!
It's crazy how most maps these days are made by an entire team of industry-leading designers, artists and playtesters yet won't see a quarter of the playtime and long-lasting reverence as this one map made by one teenager in his free time. Hell, the maps in Concord weren't played on more than just a few weeks before they disappeared.
I think the "woke up one day" is kinda downplaying all the practice he has put in making maps for Wolf3D, Doom and Quake. It's not like he made dust2 out of the blue, he had experience to build upon by that time.
Pretty wild how influential this dudes teenage work was to thousands upon thousands of us. I can draw a map right now of dust or dus2 from memory and I haven't played since Source. The fights I used to have with my clan on how best to defend B...
We used to haul our PC towers and huge crt monitors in two trips to the attic of a friend every weekend and spend countless hours hunched over printed out maps discussing positioning & tactics before hopping into scrimmages and putting it into practice. We started doing pretty well on Clanbase and then this friendgroup clan fell apart, because one of us got poached by a "pro" team and went on to compete in international tournaments.
I hope Valve has retroactively gave Dave Johnston a huge stack of cash in good faith. If not, the community should start a petition to do so. Thanks Dave!
I was a texture artist along with a few others that worked on it back in the day as a volunteer basis. Once they packaged and sold on shelves, I asked them to at least put my name on the list of contributors. They took my textures out of the game instead. So there you go.
Someone able to make mods like this as teenagers have so much drive and talent they will be successful and well off no matter what happens in their lives.
I hope David really understands what a legend he is. He seems like a nice, humble man and I wish him the best. Thanks for all the great memories you made for us.
I googled Dave Johnstone's name and the first prediction was 'Dave Johnstone OBE' and for a second I thought perhaps it was him. Then I realised it is a former Tory MP of the same name. I unironically think Dave should be given an OBE for his contribution to world culture.
I was there for this process. Counter-Strike Beta 7 came on a PCGamer demo disc, and 12 year old me was never the same. Watching this, today, the 25th anniversary of the Dreamcast's launch, has me feeling like it's 9/9/99 all over again. Thank you NoClip for telling the stories that truly connect with core gamers.
Mapping is so much different now. Back in the day it was simpler, it took less to master a mapping program and from there it was all exercising creativity. The best maps going into the biggest games getting made by less than a dozen people, sometimes just a single high school kid. These days there's an endless number of boxes to check to just make a map before really exercising creativity. Sure you can also be more creative, but with such a high barrier of entry it's no wonder why "Teenagers making maps after school" is a much smaller crowd now
i think is important to share this in a documentary about the most iconic map in FPS: WarOwl's First rule of Counter Strike: If a game allows its players to use mapping tools, there IS a Dust 2
This was my childhood, David! There were times of pain and suffering for sure, but this game brought immense joy in my and my brothers’ lives. Thank you!
He gave us a home we lived in, during beaks in school, and at home afterschool. We brought our friends over, we changed the gravity, we bonded, and to this day, sometimes return... To dust 2.
wow didn't expect this. i started CS legit a couple days before 1.6 came out. dust and dust 2 were by far the most popular maps. dust 2 was just so well balanced too
Great story! As a 36 year old I have to thank you Dave for designing a map that makes me very nostalgic about my younger days :) Also funny at 3:14, I said to myself "that monster on top is gonna shoot a fireball" just before it did, although i havent played Doom for almost 30 years. All the little pieces of entertainment that was all you required back then is still sharp in my memory.
@@Acidity01 it really goes to show just how important the community is when it comes to making good competitive maps that stand the test of time. Valve is good at making games, good and balanced competitive maps, not so much.
Dates you as being born too late for the golden age of modding, and in the age of giant game studios and publishers maximizing profit over everything that we're currently in. TF, CS, DoD all started as community mods, and their early [later iconic] maps were community made.
Kinda hilarious that he feels bad about trying to replicate those TF2 screenshots, even though that version of the game got scrapped and those maps are either completely lost or just rotting on some old computer in a basement/attic.
Great groudbreaking story. I used to make Doom / Doom2 / HL and CS maps with my own wads. In Doom2 maps I used make hidden rooms and doors where I would keep my stash of BFG 9000's and other weapons, ammo etc. At the time I was working for an ad agency - a group of friends and I would play on the lan after work. Such great memories - I miss those days.
Watching this makes me feel strange. A huge part of my teenage life, learning to make maps, looking up to those who had made official levels included in the CS release. Months of engaging with the various map design BBSes, the community that existed to help each other with technical issues and playtesting. A different time with ideas and dreams of a life that could be in video game level design. The feeling of searching for active servers to play and seeing my map(s) being played by random strangers in multiple locations around the world. Nostalgia hits hard, this documentary means something special to me so thank you Noclip.
There was definitely a lot of opportunity to make your name, I'm not sure we even realised it at the time but yeah, a small team could come together and produce something huge.
That part about jumping in and playing your map, recreating things you imagined in your head really resonated with me. I also got into mapping because I loved seeing my dad play Wolfenstein, Quake, HL, then I got into mapping for HL, and eventually made maps for a star wars mod for BF2142. I still have the screenshots from release day playing on my crown jewel, Tatooine Bestine. Seeing the lasers in full force down the streets and from the rooftops filled me with so much satisfaction after the months of work on that map. I wish I had pursued that pathway with more rigor.
You are right. There was a lot of thrill in creation with these early games, it was the part I found most interesting about them anyway. I started with Doom mapping but Half Life and CS were a lot more accessible, I guess a lot of it was the internet just becoming that always-on thing by that point, in the Doom days it was around but you weren't constantly connected and getting information was just a bit more difficult. I learned most of what I knew about Doom mapping from books... I had forgotten Worldcraft wasn't even free at first, I think we quickly worked around that little issue...
Lol exact same feeling as someone who dabbled a bit in CS maps back in the pre 1.5 days, back then I was just messing around with ideas because I was bored and saw it on a cs forum. Watching this makes me feel sad I didn't take it more seriously.
Now we need a documentary on Unreal Tournaments most popular maps. Facing Worlds and Deck 16. I played SOOOO many versions of those in various games. And of course shout out to Dust2 from this video, been playing CS since the mod days.
de_dust2 q3dm6 (campgrounds) / q3dm17 (the longest yard) CTF-Face (facing worlds) Lost Temple / Big Game Hunters Tristram We have a lot of these locations, so many memories and emotions tied to them. Lovely to see this docu that properly pays homage to the impact of level design. I've made some Q3 CPMA levels, Brood War levels, and lately a Prodeus level, and it's always such a joy to play test them and see them played by others. It's sad that bundling level editors with games is so rare these days - a consequence of strict licensing agreements from the engine makers, I guess.
Not many people know this about me, but I got my start as a CS map maker. Spent more time in Hammer than anything else and I still feel like I'm scratching that old itch when building Tea farms in Rust. I really loved watching this. It was very nostalgic and felt oddly validating. Thanks for putting this video together and giving light to a small community of map makers from what feels like a million years ago. Cheers. ☕
Very talented dude, great design instincts and architectural ideas for such a young kid. Interesting to learn that the maps were sort of textures-first inspired.
The maker of one of the most played videogame maps ever makes a very interesting point at 11:54 He talks about making maps of his home and school, Something I as an artist have done with my own art. Its a very universal thing to make the thing you know again HOWEVER this has been used against people to imply intent to do all sorts of nasty things by people who don't understand creativity. Someone re-making their school in a videogame is seen as a sign they will go on to hurt others when thats not the case. This video and the quote by Dave Johnston at 11:54 should be clipped and kept other places online so people can use it in their defense in future against people who only want to see evil in others
Yep, most of my friends growing up dabbled in mapping for various games and virtually everyone did this. As you said, it's the obvious thing to do, because these are spaces you can walk in your mind.
So true, some of the first maps I made were my house and my school. Because they were the places I knew like the back of my hand. I was surprised when people suggested it wasn't okay
Same. You're usually very familiar with your own school because you've been in it for years, and they tend to have pretty intricate layouts, so it's very beneficial for building skills and experience when you try to recreate them.
Wow, didn't know that the QWTF team was involved and the TF2 promo screenshot inspiration. The QWTF scene completely died when the CS beta was launched. I was in high school and spent most of my time at LANs playing quake. Thanks for a great documentary
That's an extremely fluffy black cat on the bed next to him. He's being interviewed on his contribution to gaming, and the kitty is just chilling, napping, and laying down a carpet of black fluff on white sheets.
The most touching part about this for me is not just that "dust 2 is the most recognizable map in history". Its that since its original release, so little of its DNA has changed. many other beloved maps of similar aged certainly maintain their likeness in present iterations, but vital boxes have been moved around many times and even entire corridors have been rerouted, where as the Dust 2 of today plays nearly identical to its first official release.
Thanks for yet another great video! It is so cool to see interviews of people behind the legendary maps, and levels and other game design related stuff! Please do more!
Bro, what an interview. I used to search for this kinds of video, of how maps were created or designed, or even the CS, how was it designed, programmed, but I never find anything. I also would like to know about tibia, but there are few videos about cipsoft or valve making of... I love this kind of video. Bro, congratulations about your job (both of you), I really appreciate it.
i would love to see you guys do a doc on either Bend Studio or Sierra online and interview the co founders Ken and Roberta Williams. i feel like Sierra Played a important part in PC gaming during their time and people deserve to hear their story.
Thanks for so many memories Dave. Salute to one of the greatest map creators of all time. Dust2 still remains for me the home, I still come back to, all these years later.
as a kid I never had the chance to play CS, but as an adult, I've spent hundreds, if not thousands of hours in VR inside of Dust 2 in Pavlov. What an amazing cultural heritage this guy has produced, no joke. I hope he gets the chance to experience his map in VR, too, that's gotta be a wild feeling.
26:30 As a level designer myself, I completely agree with this. Some of my best creations have come from working within constraints. Limiting freedom often sparks creativity in unexpected ways, and I've been using this technique for many years since I first discovered it!
Man, seeing that brief clip of that Quake mod with the grapple hook (threewave ctf?) really brought me back. I used to be crazy addicted to that for years.
Man, it's so weird putting a face to Dust. It might be the best map ever made in a game, and is certainly one of the most iconic. Consistently at the top of "best ever map" lists along with BGH from Brood War, and Blood Gulch from Halo.
It was a really good map and so far above the competition. Unfortunately it was so good that it was all everyone wanted to play from there on and all the experimentation and discovery in the CS community just disappeared overnight. At the time I held regular LAN parties with a close group of friends and this map made apparent a divide in the group between people that wanted to play games to experience them, and those that chose to grind games instead, to get to a higher spot on the CS ladder. Awesome documentary, and also fun to hear Dave also made my favorite CS map cs_tire! That map just had a ton of atmosphere.
It's unfathomable the amount of human experience that has taken place in such a small area - I don't think many other maps can compete. Probably one of the most iconic maps in all of gaming, not even just in counter strike. I've only played a few matches but even I could draw it all from memory because I've just seen it countless times in videos.
Many evenings in Gamespy Arcade and then 'Green Steam', playing those two maps over and over. Sidenote, de_dust 1 converted over brilliantly to Day of Defeat 3.1. Great to see Dave has moved on and is doing well.
I'll always remember being a little kid in Caracas, Venezuela. In the cyber café, as we called it at the time. We didn't know English. We didn't know what "1.6 no steam" meant, or even the word "dust." We did know what a "camper" was, though. We played the fuck out of this map and others every weekend. Countless hours of fun, years of fun, all because of this man's hobby. Incredible. I'll be forever grateful.
This is very nostalgic for me.I started learning about 3d and map making in the late 90s as a 15-16 yr old boy by using that worldcraft editor.We used to play a lot of Counterstrike in my highschool friends computer shop.I remember trying to learn how de_dust works by reverse engineering how bomb sites work.I eventually got it figured out and made my own version of dust called it db_dust so it comes before de_dust on the map list.A lot of the guys who plays on the shop plays my map thinking it was dust,and I would observe how they react to it and made changes.I basically force people to playtest for me lmao.
i'm so grateful to be old enough to have known 1.5/1.6 era. Back when it was all about the game. No skins, no money, community wasn't toxic, aim_maps were spawning by creators every two days or so, cheaters were almost nowhere to be seen (at least on 1.5). There used to be lans everywhere open to the public, so you had to grab your pc and your big ass crt screen to play there. Fuck i sound like a boomer but man i'm so nostalgic when i see that the game i grew up on became so twisted from what it was.
This has put the biggest smile on my face. Im an old timer now. But Ive always wondered who made these things that i put so much of my childhood into. Its so facinating. Kids. Making games for kids. What a time to be alive that was.
@@YogiTheBearMan apparently its both. 1) "a specialized segment of the market for a particular kind of product or service" 2) "products, services, or interests that appeal to a small, specialized section of the population".
Can recall downloading Beta 4 and messing around for hours. Locally. Because dial-in was expensive and I was only allowed to play one night a week. And downloading the beta took up that one night. But I remember being so thrilled that I asked one week play in advance, I had to beg! Nothing could prepare me for the first rounds of Dust, trying to mess with the Scout (I was useless with it) and running around, planting or defusing those bombs. The creation of the Dusts is such a great story to hear, thank you so much for sharing!
I have always been shit at multiplayer games, but CS[1.6] was always a game that I played with friends just to be able to hang with them and get some time in together while we were all split up in school and whatever. This video brought so many visual, semantic and audio memories back. This game always felt brilliant, but Dust is the one that always felt like home. Awesome video. Love the specificity of this doc!! Great job, guys!
I'm glad he took responsibility for those doors on de_dust2, and acknowledged all the pain and misery they've caused over the years. The bane of my life, they were!
I've always wondered about the creativity behind this map. Now, with lots of nostalgia and childhood memories, I've found out. It's so fascinating to see this memorable counter-strike map again. Literally, I'm back in my teenage times.
I know it’s a later version, but in High School I had a couple friends who played almost nothing but Dust 2 in CSGO for a year straight to help them get better at the game. The fact you can go through so many different games of only one map for that long and still not be sick of it speak volumes.
I used to work with Dave and one time he bought us all doughnuts for Dust 2's birthday. It was a very surreal (and delicious) moment, celebrating a map I had spent a good portion of my teenage life on with the guy who made it.
Great work as always.
That's such an awesome and wholesome story lol. I was thinking to myself while watching this like, what if I met this dude in a bar by happenstance and he brought up that he made dust 2, I would lose my mind. I'd pay for his tab immediately.
crazy story! what a cool guy!
its a stroke of genius for real
Thank you for being a part of my childhood. Im 28 now still playing dust 2 on cs2
Back in the Half-Life days, I sent DaveJ a Counter-Strike map I'd made to see if he could give me some feedback. He sent me an essay back, with annotated screenshots, and wireframe images and all sorts of information about optimisation that I'd never found anywhere online. It was so awesome! I try to pay that generosity with my time forward. Thanks DaveJ!
actual chad wow
@@grdfhrghrggrtwqqu doom maps based on schools are practically an entire genre of baby's first map
Yup@@Tuxfanturnip
the craft of an autist
@@grdfhrghrggrtwqqu holy it sounds like you have things to work through internally
I used to work with Dave, he is genuinely the most down to earth (and not to mention talented) individual I have met. We used to say Dave completed Level Design, just straight up completed it, and moved on to become a backend engineer to complete that too.
I also had the pleasure of working with Dave many moons ago he’s a great guy.. and whoever makes the next De_Dust map certainly has big boots to fill (literally, he had like size 16 🦶) 😊
That comes across
pleasure to work with, yeah.
good to hear he's as good a guy as he comes across in this video
the idea that game design is in some ways an engineering problem that can be solved or be done well , I think that's how valve sees it too .
Thank you noClip for getting those documentaries out there that make me sort of feel like a teenager again. Easier times, great and nostalgic memories. You made me have a great day today with those 30mins 'ish.
Thanks for being an early access patron! We're glad you enjoyed it.
I’m depressed
@@koldolmen5837 me too
@@koldolmen5837me 2
@@koldolmen5837 why?
As somebody that hasn't played counterstrike in maybe 15 years, just hearing the sounds of it while the credits roll was a deep experience
same
Try the new CS2, lots of fun and runs on low/medium specs.
Same. And those sounds of OG CS are priceless
Ohg yea
After first loading CS in 2004, can confirm that dust2 is still so fun!
It's kind of wild that he created the go to map for Counter Strike not once, but twice.
Casually dropping that he also designed Cobble too
@@1882osr Such a brutally underrated map. It's got its own little cult following like some obscure indie movie. Sure maybe it's not the most balanced map in the game, especially in 1.6/Source, but it has such great atmosphere.
@@madelaki I loved cobble so much, I used to stack the bots up to 32 players and just enjoy the mayhem. I mean i did the same thing with dust as well XD it was fun in office too lol
@@1882osr de_cbble was my favorite map in 1.6 and Source
@@placeholdername3206 cbble & prodigy were my favs. bangers
Just listening to him explain his process it's obvious he's a complete savant at map design. To actually use your emotional/stress response to evaluate the strength/disadvantages of certain positions is incredible.
This is da Vinci painting Mona Lisa gaming equivalent.
fax
100%
Dude's so chill about it, holy crap. de_dust2 is the most iconic map EVER CREATED. He made the map that's the first thing that gets made for any other game with an editor. It exist in every single game with a map editor - it's the first thing people try to remake. It's THE map. de_dust2 is probably the greatest multiplayer map ever made.
Hey that's my doom level design video at 2:46 :) Cheers for including the credit Jeremy x
Imagine being the guy who designed probably THE most recognized FPS PVP map of all time
I'd put it second only to UT's Facing Worlds.
@@Gmouse Nah it's bigger
@@Gmouse nah bro not even close
Facing Worlds would be number two because dust2 is the biggest FPS map ever made
Sorry man but it's Nuketown @@Gmouse
Crazy to think it's been 23 years since de_dust2 was released. The hype for it was immense at the time, being the sequel to THE Counter-Strike map, and not only did it deliver but it well exceeded the popularity of any other CS map. I have my own little history with this map; not to delve into it too deeply, but I made a small mark on the community that grew into something well beyond my expectations, got in touch with DaveJ because of it and befriended him for a while, and somehow that ended up getting my nickname (at the time) immortalized in the secret credits easter egg in de_dust2. It's still there in CS 1.6 to this day. I know it's just a small thing and it probably didn't mean much to him, but I am forever grateful to Dave for doing that.
no way, the name in the white box...Justin De-something....
The "special mentions"?
>being the sequel to THE Counter-Strike map
I think he downplayed how important this was to CS. I didn't play CS but know dust. Dust was pivotal to the success of CS originally. A lot of the older maps were not very good. Would CS have fared as well as it did without dust? Perhaps not.
@@fractal_aura Yep, the special mentions. Again it didn't really mean very much, I'm sure Dave just listed a bunch of his friends there at the time, and I didn't contribute to the map itself in any way. But it's kind of crazy to look back at it now, knowing what an impactful and downright _historical_ map de_dust2 is, and seeing your past nickname in there.
@@joel6376 Hard to say. When I entered the Counter-Strike fray the game was on Beta 6.5 and de_dust was already one of the most popular maps. It did have a bunch of other quality maps at the time, including Dave's own de_cbble, and the gameplay loop was fun and addictive no matter which map you played, but none of those maps had the sheer staying power that Dust did.
Absolute legend. You may not legally own these maps any more, but they will ALWAYS be your maps! Thank you for the contributions to an amazing game.
Could you imagine if he got paid in residuals? Wow!
@@Machtyn He deserves it imo. I'm not saying they're the only good maps, far from it, but Cobble and Dust II especially have both done an insane amount of heavy lifting for Counter-Strike and its legacy.
@@LordSchnoz without Dust 2 CS wont be CS, atleast 60% of its playebase depends on this map. In all game modes
@@HappyBirthdayMrPresident 100%. Till these days.
@@fredericoo
Totally but what I meant there are dust 2 only community who only plays dust and nothing else. Thats why valve made DUST2 having a seperate que in Casual mode and Deathmatch. The only map in CS who have this status.
I'm surprised *why* Dust II is so popular and beloved, as well as its legacy wasn't really explored in this. Its layout is a masterclass in complexity vs simplicity and balance, and there are innumerable popular multiplayer shooter maps whose design philosophies can be traced back to it or directly attributed to it. People study it and strive to create maps as good as it for their games to this day. This was achieved by a teenager on a family computer in the 90s.
Well this video is mostly Dave Johnston telling his story and you can't very much expect him to call his own map a masterclass in design.
He really balanced things out in dust2 as he said and that's what makes it amazing. Because in casual gaming, you really need balanced map for 20vs20 games etc. Not competitive games. Because you win CT more but other side plays CT too so it doesn't matter in matches. But for casual playing ,balance is most important thing and that's why D2 is awesome.
This exact type of well timed, well thought out, balanced "4 square" map is the cornerstone of basically all existing tac shooter maps in existence now.
It's not merely a masterclass in good design. It's THE design.
Noclip docs are awesome today, but they will be absolutely invaluable in a decade or two. Great stuff, as always.
Man, this brought back so many memories. This map was more like a chill spot when I was growing up. Where everyone would hop on Ventrilo and we'd all hang out for hours just playing d2. What an awesome video. Cheers to you and cheers to Dave!
When the CS clones clone de_dust every time, you know it’s one stone cold classic of a map.
If a game supports community mapping. There will be DUST 2 😂
Its not even just cs clones. Almost every multiplayer fps game that has some sort of level editor will have dust 2
@@Acidity01
Not just FPS games. I played Dust 2 in Golf with your friends.
de_dust2_2007
It's crazy how most maps these days are made by an entire team of industry-leading designers, artists and playtesters yet won't see a quarter of the playtime and long-lasting reverence as this one map made by one teenager in his free time. Hell, the maps in Concord weren't played on more than just a few weeks before they disappeared.
>woke up one day
>saw a tf2 screenshot
>decided to make a map for cs based on it
>changed history
gives me hope fr
And then did it again but better.
I think the "woke up one day" is kinda downplaying all the practice he has put in making maps for Wolf3D, Doom and Quake. It's not like he made dust2 out of the blue, he had experience to build upon by that time.
@@telefrag. Can't get that experience if you never take that first step. That's the important lesson to take from that comment.
"Im 12 and this is deep"
@@brel_ ok
dope ass documentary wtf did not expect this level of quality as a first-time viewer, just subbed
Pretty wild how influential this dudes teenage work was to thousands upon thousands of us. I can draw a map right now of dust or dus2 from memory and I haven't played since Source. The fights I used to have with my clan on how best to defend B...
Millions of us
We used to haul our PC towers and huge crt monitors in two trips to the attic of a friend every weekend and spend countless hours hunched over printed out maps discussing positioning & tactics before hopping into scrimmages and putting it into practice. We started doing pretty well on Clanbase and then this friendgroup clan fell apart, because one of us got poached by a "pro" team and went on to compete in international tournaments.
I hope Valve has retroactively gave Dave Johnston a huge stack of cash in good faith. If not, the community should start a petition to do so. Thanks Dave!
I was a texture artist along with a few others that worked on it back in the day as a volunteer basis. Once they packaged and sold on shelves, I asked them to at least put my name on the list of contributors. They took my textures out of the game instead. So there you go.
@@swgdsm Sorry to hear that. Thankyou for your contributions to perhaps the best MP map of all time!
@@swgdsm doing textures back then would have been wow to everyone, how sad that Valve did this
Someone able to make mods like this as teenagers have so much drive and talent they will be successful and well off no matter what happens in their lives.
I hope David really understands what a legend he is. He seems like a nice, humble man and I wish him the best. Thanks for all the great memories you made for us.
I’m pushing like button and planting for comments
I googled Dave Johnstone's name and the first prediction was 'Dave Johnstone OBE' and for a second I thought perhaps it was him. Then I realised it is a former Tory MP of the same name. I unironically think Dave should be given an OBE for his contribution to world culture.
You know it’s Dave Johnston (no E) 😂
And he should refuse it on the grounds of monarchy being undemocratic money waste xDDD
The cat is having a lovely little nap.
That is such a floofy cat. I wanna pet it so bad!
a nap-designer?
I was there for this process. Counter-Strike Beta 7 came on a PCGamer demo disc, and 12 year old me was never the same.
Watching this, today, the 25th anniversary of the Dreamcast's launch, has me feeling like it's 9/9/99 all over again.
Thank you NoClip for telling the stories that truly connect with core gamers.
My cousin gave me access to CS:GO Beta, and 12 year old me was never the same.
You've made me yearn back for my mapping journey back in those times. Man, those where nice times with lots of creativity.
Mapping is so much different now. Back in the day it was simpler, it took less to master a mapping program and from there it was all exercising creativity. The best maps going into the biggest games getting made by less than a dozen people, sometimes just a single high school kid. These days there's an endless number of boxes to check to just make a map before really exercising creativity. Sure you can also be more creative, but with such a high barrier of entry it's no wonder why "Teenagers making maps after school" is a much smaller crowd now
Dave Johnston, you were a part of what made me happy as a kid. Thanks a lot for your service. De_Dust truly was amazing
i think is important to share this in a documentary about the most iconic map in FPS:
WarOwl's First rule of Counter Strike: If a game allows its players to use mapping tools, there IS a Dust 2
still waiting for warowl to continue de_amigo
Just like fps in general, gave them a mapping tool and E1M1 is always there.
Most of the d2 footage is from Topfrag Chicago server. This public server is still thriving today ❤
cant put a price on our history! thanks for this
lau pog
lau bing
You better shout out this gem of a video next Blast cast
my favorite racist
@launders hi racism
This was my childhood, David! There were times of pain and suffering for sure, but this game brought immense joy in my and my brothers’ lives. Thank you!
He gave us a home we lived in, during beaks in school, and at home afterschool. We brought our friends over, we changed the gravity, we bonded, and to this day, sometimes return... To dust 2.
He gave the gaming world a beautiful gift absolutely masterpiece maps
WinDEU posse here. Those days were just spent creating. The process was slow, painstaking, and incredibly rewarding. Kudos to this guy.
wow didn't expect this. i started CS legit a couple days before 1.6 came out. dust and dust 2 were by far the most popular maps. dust 2 was just so well balanced too
Great story! As a 36 year old I have to thank you Dave for designing a map that makes me very nostalgic about my younger days :) Also funny at 3:14, I said to myself "that monster on top is gonna shoot a fireball" just before it did, although i havent played Doom for almost 30 years. All the little pieces of entertainment that was all you required back then is still sharp in my memory.
I always assumed that Dust and Dust2 would've been created by Valve themselves. This is incredible.
The only Valve original competitive maps in CS2 rn are Overpass, Vertigo, and Ancient.
@@Acidity01 it really goes to show just how important the community is when it comes to making good competitive maps that stand the test of time. Valve is good at making games, good and balanced competitive maps, not so much.
Dates you as being born too late for the golden age of modding, and in the age of giant game studios and publishers maximizing profit over everything that we're currently in.
TF, CS, DoD all started as community mods, and their early [later iconic] maps were community made.
@@mfaizsyahmi I'm 40. I moved to the US in 2000, however, so that might affect things.
@@Acidity01 they made Vertigo? I thought it was made by someone else and they decided to added it into the map pool in 2019
Kinda hilarious that he feels bad about trying to replicate those TF2 screenshots, even though that version of the game got scrapped and those maps are either completely lost or just rotting on some old computer in a basement/attic.
Plottwist, it got scrapped because of dust2
I have spent so many hours on dust2 from cs 1.3 to cs2. Thanks for all the hours and years of fun (and frustration) Dave.
Great groudbreaking story. I used to make Doom / Doom2 / HL and CS maps with my own wads. In Doom2 maps I used make hidden rooms and doors where I would keep my stash of BFG 9000's and other weapons, ammo etc. At the time I was working for an ad agency - a group of friends and I would play on the lan after work. Such great memories - I miss those days.
This guy just has " I made de_dust" in his CV.
Best resume ever
Watching this makes me feel strange. A huge part of my teenage life, learning to make maps, looking up to those who had made official levels included in the CS release. Months of engaging with the various map design BBSes, the community that existed to help each other with technical issues and playtesting. A different time with ideas and dreams of a life that could be in video game level design. The feeling of searching for active servers to play and seeing my map(s) being played by random strangers in multiple locations around the world.
Nostalgia hits hard, this documentary means something special to me so thank you Noclip.
This really was the golden areas of the internet and game development
There was definitely a lot of opportunity to make your name, I'm not sure we even realised it at the time but yeah, a small team could come together and produce something huge.
hearing the term BBS brought so much joy! i miss that ERA a lot!
As a Dust 2 only player. Thank you for making this map. de_Dust was my favorite map on 1.6 too. Such a good video. Please make more maps!
Jave Donston's CounterFuck mod is still my fav to this day.
lol classic Jave
That part about jumping in and playing your map, recreating things you imagined in your head really resonated with me. I also got into mapping because I loved seeing my dad play Wolfenstein, Quake, HL, then I got into mapping for HL, and eventually made maps for a star wars mod for BF2142. I still have the screenshots from release day playing on my crown jewel, Tatooine Bestine. Seeing the lasers in full force down the streets and from the rooftops filled me with so much satisfaction after the months of work on that map. I wish I had pursued that pathway with more rigor.
You are right. There was a lot of thrill in creation with these early games, it was the part I found most interesting about them anyway. I started with Doom mapping but Half Life and CS were a lot more accessible, I guess a lot of it was the internet just becoming that always-on thing by that point, in the Doom days it was around but you weren't constantly connected and getting information was just a bit more difficult. I learned most of what I knew about Doom mapping from books...
I had forgotten Worldcraft wasn't even free at first, I think we quickly worked around that little issue...
Lol exact same feeling as someone who dabbled a bit in CS maps back in the pre 1.5 days, back then I was just messing around with ideas because I was bored and saw it on a cs forum. Watching this makes me feel sad I didn't take it more seriously.
as someone who dabbled in hammer back in my teens, this whole interview is phenomenal, really insightful retelling
Now we need a documentary on Unreal Tournaments most popular maps. Facing Worlds and Deck 16. I played SOOOO many versions of those in various games. And of course shout out to Dust2 from this video, been playing CS since the mod days.
Oh awesome! I remember when Dust2 first was added to Counter-Strike, lol. Can't believe it's been 23 years.
For the longest time I confused Dust2 with de_aztec when I was remembering what it was.
And then I saw this video and it alllllll came flooding back.
de_dust2
q3dm6 (campgrounds) / q3dm17 (the longest yard)
CTF-Face (facing worlds)
Lost Temple / Big Game Hunters
Tristram
We have a lot of these locations, so many memories and emotions tied to them. Lovely to see this docu that properly pays homage to the impact of level design.
I've made some Q3 CPMA levels, Brood War levels, and lately a Prodeus level, and it's always such a joy to play test them and see them played by others. It's sad that bundling level editors with games is so rare these days - a consequence of strict licensing agreements from the engine makers, I guess.
Exactly. For me it's also caen2 from Day of Defeat and Pavlov from first CoD and Toujane from Cod2 :D
Rushing to a new noclip video faster than I rush mid A
P90 RUSh B NO STOP BLYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT
Go go go
Fire in the hole
Fire in the hole
Fire in the hole
... Those voice clips are burned into my brain forever.
rip cbble
Not many people know this about me, but I got my start as a CS map maker. Spent more time in Hammer than anything else and I still feel like I'm scratching that old itch when building Tea farms in Rust. I really loved watching this. It was very nostalgic and felt oddly validating. Thanks for putting this video together and giving light to a small community of map makers from what feels like a million years ago. Cheers. ☕
Very talented dude, great design instincts and architectural ideas for such a young kid. Interesting to learn that the maps were sort of textures-first inspired.
Dust2 will forever feels like home, I indeed could depict the map better than my own teenage room. Thanks for the memories.
The maker of one of the most played videogame maps ever makes a very interesting point at 11:54
He talks about making maps of his home and school, Something I as an artist have done with my own art. Its a very universal thing to make the thing you know again HOWEVER this has been used against people to imply intent to do all sorts of nasty things by people who don't understand creativity.
Someone re-making their school in a videogame is seen as a sign they will go on to hurt others when thats not the case.
This video and the quote by Dave Johnston at 11:54 should be clipped and kept other places online so people can use it in their defense in future against people who only want to see evil in others
Yep, most of my friends growing up dabbled in mapping for various games and virtually everyone did this. As you said, it's the obvious thing to do, because these are spaces you can walk in your mind.
I was thinking the same thing
So true, some of the first maps I made were my house and my school. Because they were the places I knew like the back of my hand. I was surprised when people suggested it wasn't okay
Same. You're usually very familiar with your own school because you've been in it for years, and they tend to have pretty intricate layouts, so it's very beneficial for building skills and experience when you try to recreate them.
Wow, didn't know that the QWTF team was involved and the TF2 promo screenshot inspiration.
The QWTF scene completely died when the CS beta was launched. I was in high school and spent most of my time at LANs playing quake.
Thanks for a great documentary
That's an extremely fluffy black cat on the bed next to him. He's being interviewed on his contribution to gaming, and the kitty is just chilling, napping, and laying down a carpet of black fluff on white sheets.
That cat is like "do you HAVE to do this here right now? I'm trying to take a nap ..."
IKR ITS SO CUTE
What I'm hearing is we need a follow up interview with the cat on its historic contribution to cuteness
The most touching part about this for me is not just that "dust 2 is the most recognizable map in history". Its that since its original release, so little of its DNA has changed. many other beloved maps of similar aged certainly maintain their likeness in present iterations, but vital boxes have been moved around many times and even entire corridors have been rerouted, where as the Dust 2 of today plays nearly identical to its first official release.
I was a Day of Defeat guy, But I absolutely LOVE hearing these stories!
Day of Defeat was incredibly fun back in the day!!
It's impossible to describe that feeling of playing HL and then CS in a LAN... It was like an amazing drug.
that cat is having the nap of their life in the back
This documentary just made us all feel nostalgic.
Thank you
Now I wonder if other iconic maps/levels from any game have this interesting of a story.
Kreedz comes to mind.
shouts out to the cat sleeping in the background, what a legend
Thanks for yet another great video! It is so cool to see interviews of people behind the legendary maps, and levels and other game design related stuff! Please do more!
Pinnacle of multiplayer level design. Big love for Noclip and Dave for documenting and creating this piece of history!
Had the pleasure of working with Dave a few years back, great guy.
Bro, what an interview. I used to search for this kinds of video, of how maps were created or designed, or even the CS, how was it designed, programmed, but I never find anything. I also would like to know about tibia, but there are few videos about cipsoft or valve making of... I love this kind of video.
Bro, congratulations about your job (both of you), I really appreciate it.
i would love to see you guys do a doc on either Bend Studio or Sierra online and interview the co founders Ken and Roberta Williams. i feel like Sierra Played a important part in PC gaming during their time and people deserve to hear their story.
Thanks for so many memories Dave. Salute to one of the greatest map creators of all time. Dust2 still remains for me the home, I still come back to, all these years later.
as a kid I never had the chance to play CS, but as an adult, I've spent hundreds, if not thousands of hours in VR inside of Dust 2 in Pavlov. What an amazing cultural heritage this guy has produced, no joke. I hope he gets the chance to experience his map in VR, too, that's gotta be a wild feeling.
I started playing CS around 1999? Good times. Remember the driveable APC on siege? Secret hiding spot in Cobblestone sniper nest? Jeep2k?
I'm glad you managed to keep the channel alive. Thanks for the hard work.
26:30 As a level designer myself, I completely agree with this. Some of my best creations have come from working within constraints. Limiting freedom often sparks creativity in unexpected ways, and I've been using this technique for many years since I first discovered it!
I have amazing memories of playing dust during beta 5 and beta 6. But does anyone else remember cs_italy fondly as I do?
Man, seeing that brief clip of that Quake mod with the grapple hook (threewave ctf?) really brought me back. I used to be crazy addicted to that for years.
I could listen to you two talking about cs for hours
Man, it's so weird putting a face to Dust. It might be the best map ever made in a game, and is certainly one of the most iconic. Consistently at the top of "best ever map" lists along with BGH from Brood War, and Blood Gulch from Halo.
Fantastic stuff, really interesting hearing about how the maps came to be and just reliving memories of PC gaming from that era.
It was a really good map and so far above the competition. Unfortunately it was so good that it was all everyone wanted to play from there on and all the experimentation and discovery in the CS community just disappeared overnight. At the time I held regular LAN parties with a close group of friends and this map made apparent a divide in the group between people that wanted to play games to experience them, and those that chose to grind games instead, to get to a higher spot on the CS ladder.
Awesome documentary, and also fun to hear Dave also made my favorite CS map cs_tire! That map just had a ton of atmosphere.
That cat looks so comfortable :)
It's unfathomable the amount of human experience that has taken place in such a small area - I don't think many other maps can compete. Probably one of the most iconic maps in all of gaming, not even just in counter strike. I've only played a few matches but even I could draw it all from memory because I've just seen it countless times in videos.
Many evenings in Gamespy Arcade and then 'Green Steam', playing those two maps over and over. Sidenote, de_dust 1 converted over brilliantly to Day of Defeat 3.1. Great to see Dave has moved on and is doing well.
I'll always remember being a little kid in Caracas, Venezuela. In the cyber café, as we called it at the time. We didn't know English. We didn't know what "1.6 no steam" meant, or even the word "dust." We did know what a "camper" was, though.
We played the fuck out of this map and others every weekend. Countless hours of fun, years of fun, all because of this man's hobby. Incredible. I'll be forever grateful.
Who remembers the mod "they hunger"? That used to creep me out
I was so excited to download it when I saw it
This is very nostalgic for me.I started learning about 3d and map making in the late 90s as a 15-16 yr old boy by using that worldcraft editor.We used to play a lot of Counterstrike in my highschool friends computer shop.I remember trying to learn how de_dust works by reverse engineering how bomb sites work.I eventually got it figured out and made my own version of dust called it db_dust so it comes before de_dust on the map list.A lot of the guys who plays on the shop plays my map thinking it was dust,and I would observe how they react to it and made changes.I basically force people to playtest for me lmao.
de_dust2 is a place where billion feuds started and ended
i'm so grateful to be old enough to have known 1.5/1.6 era. Back when it was all about the game. No skins, no money, community wasn't toxic, aim_maps were spawning by creators every two days or so, cheaters were almost nowhere to be seen (at least on 1.5). There used to be lans everywhere open to the public, so you had to grab your pc and your big ass crt screen to play there. Fuck i sound like a boomer but man i'm so nostalgic when i see that the game i grew up on became so twisted from what it was.
I started playing cs in 2001. I think I have spent more time on dust 2 in 1.6 css csgo cs2 than I have all of my other gaming life combined.
This has put the biggest smile on my face. Im an old timer now. But Ive always wondered who made these things that i put so much of my childhood into. Its so facinating. Kids. Making games for kids. What a time to be alive that was.
Finally, a documentary that hits my niche precisely
Calling counter-strike a niche at this point is quite a bit of a stretch. There's probably less people interested in ancient Egypt than CS.
@@shdwza thanks for taking time out of your day to argue semantics with a stranger
Niche is more about being specialized than being a small group I think, I’m here for the semantics 😜
@@YogiTheBearMan apparently its both.
1) "a specialized segment of the market for a particular kind of product or service"
2) "products, services, or interests that appeal to a small, specialized section of the population".
Can recall downloading Beta 4 and messing around for hours. Locally. Because dial-in was expensive and I was only allowed to play one night a week. And downloading the beta took up that one night.
But I remember being so thrilled that I asked one week play in advance, I had to beg! Nothing could prepare me for the first rounds of Dust, trying to mess with the Scout (I was useless with it) and running around, planting or defusing those bombs.
The creation of the Dusts is such a great story to hear, thank you so much for sharing!
ı just got my pizza and saw a notification, my favorite map in cs... what a day
I have always been shit at multiplayer games, but CS[1.6] was always a game that I played with friends just to be able to hang with them and get some time in together while we were all split up in school and whatever. This video brought so many visual, semantic and audio memories back. This game always felt brilliant, but Dust is the one that always felt like home. Awesome video. Love the specificity of this doc!! Great job, guys!
I'm glad he took responsibility for those doors on de_dust2, and acknowledged all the pain and misery they've caused over the years. The bane of my life, they were!
"drop me AWP , I'll peek mid"
*died to 5 men AWP stack from T spawn*
I've always wondered about the creativity behind this map. Now, with lots of nostalgia and childhood memories, I've found out. It's so fascinating to see this memorable counter-strike map again. Literally, I'm back in my teenage times.
"totally legitimately ... from a school friend" - lol
I know it’s a later version, but in High School I had a couple friends who played almost nothing but Dust 2 in CSGO for a year straight to help them get better at the game.
The fact you can go through so many different games of only one map for that long and still not be sick of it speak volumes.
I'd like CS2 to have a map that uses a Half-Life kind of setting. Nuke only sort of scratches that itch at some points (even having vents)