DCS v IL2 - 1v1 (me v AI) Dogfights Comparison
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- Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
- Unfortunately this was recording 2 days before some new AI updates in DCS.... however I'm publishing it anyways. Video should be self-explanatory.. hopefully
To skip the pre-ample, head to 4:54
Unfortunately this was recorded 2 days before some new AI updates in DCS.... however I'm publishing it anyways. Video should be self-explanatory.. hopefully
To skip the pre-ample, head to 4:54
Noticed any changes after the new DCS AI update?
New AI updates in IL-2 too?
IL2 AI use the same FMs as the player, and as the wing waggle shows, they can't fly them very well.
The AI in Il-2 has always been one of its weakest points. It's good in some areas and terrible in others. Their wings waggle constantly, they turn in circles endlessly. It still needs improvement.
Wings over the Reich got great AI is what I read everywhere
As far as I can tell the ai can black out and also get knocked unconscious by hitting the cockpit. In a replay external view you can see the ai pilot collapse and regain conciousness sometimes
And if you bring them into a dive when they pull up sometimes they knock themselves out resulting in them sailing directly into the dirt below
Phil ace il2 is equal to high in DCS literally the computer cheats in DCS at the highest difficulty. P.S. I'm not the greatest fighter but if you would like an opponent in either of these games to compare player driven aircraft I'll gladly be a Guinea pig.
If DCS would expand the WW2 lineup to include a few medium or large aircraft, like the JU-88 for example, it would be the obvious superior title. But since IL-2 lets players bring a lot more roles to a MP mission, the choice is still tight.
7:45 Good to see that Tetsuo is still getting side gigs in when he's not on Gaijin's clock.
You noticed that too?
7:52 "I am still blacked out. And don't call me Shirley" 😁
Only my father calls me Shirley!
@@philstyle AI pilot: "That's a completely different situation, altogether."
All AI wingmen: "That's a completely different situation."
@@slowhornet4802 FAAACTS xD they are like: Not my problem i see nothing. Peacefull sky up here. While i get chased by 4 spitfires xD
Great video. I like your German pronunciation @ 6:05 :)
top-notch.. or better evven, tadellos ;D
That was a very interesting video Phil. I'd be interested in another with the new AI tweaks.
In summary it seems like the AI in DCS is a fair bit better? Am I drawing the right conclusion?
I find your results interesting here, as every level of AI I have put into my missions in IL-2 will pepper your plane in a head on, however I never put them up at 9000m, still watching through the video and may have more comments later.
I really wish you would do this again with the AI set to Ace in Il2 and select a different aircraft for them to fly. For some reason the AI is really bad at flying the 190. Great video otherwise!
The AI for the non horizontal turners works significantly less effectively in IL2, they don't really operate in the vertical. Whereas if you did the reverse dogfight, the AI Spit 9 would perform 'better'. And the falling apart aircraft occurrence frequency is ridiculous.
As others have said, Il2 AI is much better on Ace. Not perfect but certainly better. Also, the AI seems to do much better with aircraft that are easier to fly than the 190. I enjoyed the video
Il-2 1946 has the hardest & best AI as they perform complex aerobatics when you're on their tail. They will cut throttle & scissor (both flat and rolling), pull Jondels, Yoyo, Split S, etc. to turn the tables.
Next is IL-2 CloD - Blitz. AI will cut throttle & scissor, Split S to avoid being hit.
IL-2 GB has the worst out of the IL-2 titles. AI will make a token effort to avoid being hit but that's about it.
I always get scissored in 1946. Cant get out of it no matter how hard i try. Watched many tutorials but nope.... Then again i am sure the player flight model isnt on point... Been trying to do a simple looping for MONTHS and i always stall and spin down to the ground. .. usually im a good pilot , aerobatics doesnt scare me..even did some in real life ..it was fun as hell.but in il2 1946 everything is different its the only game that i cant fly for shits.
In that first fight you also damaged your own right wing pretty badly.... That was a bit weird also(?) Over-G?
There where some improvements in AI on both sides since, maybe a re-do would be interesting? :D
Yes, AI is terrible in everything - less terrible in IL2 in my opinion but still bad. Anything below ACE is not worthwhile as they just do less maneuvers - less fun.
I'd be way more interested in MP dogfights as it would actually show the aircraft FMs.
The FW190 is easily the worst AI in IL2 - the AI in IL2 favours planes that turn well. Try P51 vs 109K4 for example. I do not mean this in defense of the AI but considering you didn't mention it I thought it worthwhile. The AI has never been able to handle it, they use the players' flight model and struggle with the edge of the stall (hence the wing waggle - though there's something more going on there too). They try to use tactics that work for turning planes and constantly fail.
In either case they need more states: Agressor, neutral, defender, guns defensive. As well as states for energy vs positional advantage. In DCS they always act like they have energy advantages, extending and using the vertical. Neither AI panics or jinks when you're in close.
Can confirm the IL-2 AI blacks out. I got all the 75% special packs, did some instant actions and recorded some fights. In one, the guy pulled too hard, whilst I was hanging on with my grey scale colour pallet through a split S, and he flew into the ground. When I check the replay, you can clearly see the pilot slump over his controls, in the same you do when you black out.
Interesting video phil, and great last fight with DCS 'AI, i never thought BoX AI was so bad, even tho i actually had a glimpse of that when i first started playing a SP campaign when the feature came out.. and the Spitfire in DCS looks soo much better than the one in IL2...but..visibility in IL2 is way better, it was hard to keep track of the enemy in DCS even when it was just in front of you!
This sort of video is really important to give the devs some pressure to improve. It would be good as someone else said to try max AI settings and 109'a, especially with the new DCS AI.
Things certainly have changed since my IL-2 1946 days. I remember back in the day, i would often find myself in a loop sided engagement against planes with superior energy properties like you did in that first low engagement in DCS. And the damage modelling was way better in IL2 back then. This new IL-2 (that i haven't tried BTW) seams to follow the horizontal carousel AI mechanics of the strike fighters series, which is kind of a downer. At least when the AI flies the energy fighters. The outside visibility still looks better then in DCS though. Especially that green armor screen in the front, i'm surprised how you can see anything through it. Anyways.....good video. Maybe i should pickup DCS WW2 after all (i'm into the jets right now). I have the Spit, but nothing else really. I haven't really flown her either. Just sits in my hanger. I've been waiting for the 180A and F4U to come out.....well, one of them is.
Cheers mate, you have a new sub.
I'd recommend just learning the Spitfire you already have to start off with. No need top go all-in and invest in loads of modules and assets to begin with. If you like the Spit then maybe consider buying the assets pack etc if you then want to jump into some campaigns or fly online in a specific WW2 server.
Baby steps :)
@@philstyle roger that mate!
The damage modelling in the current IL2 BoX series is fantastic, i wouldn't use this video to critique that point in particular.
Search "IL-2 Great Battles Crashes" in youtube for some examples of the excellent BoX damage models.
im just starting to experiment with both of these games. Very interesting comparison. Can I ask What setup are you running?
Btw the Fw-190 had a superior roll rate to spits. A good fw-190 pilot would use this instead of horizontal turns.
What happened to your aileron @ 9:17 ?
It's missing but i didn't see you take any hits.
Odds are it got sheared off by the extreme airspeed he acquired in the near fatal dive at 8:00
Its there when the dive starts at 8:00, and gone by 8:36
Also the ai can't always see you. When you're following them in a gentle circle the ai probably isn't yet aware you're there. It's also possible the ai is crap.
Are you talking about ai in il2? One of thing that pilot need to know is how to predict where your enemy will appear and how he will react. It seems that the ai in il2 is much more like a detector rather than a pilot. So the ai is crap.☹
Perfect Job!
Nice video. It would be nice to have something on the screen showing which game you are playing at time or timestamps
Another great video, thanks!!....
He's wagging his wings because he would like you to spare him! Lol
It would be very interesting to compare AI for a pair of fighters, for example, P-51 vs P-51 to be sure that we are testing AI skill and not their physical qualities. And, if you have something like TacView, it would be very interesting to compare energy management.
I'm looking for an old ww2 warplane dogfight game with no jets of all nations that was high definition at the time...in the hangar was a plane with pilots standing around it....I can't remember the name of it....any suggestions so I can look for it...I only remember plane to plane combat. Was on iPad in android...
Gunship WW2 ?
Nice video! Thanks!
Very informative 👍
You need to clarify which IL2 your talking about.
Interesting Phil, assume you will do an update with the latest DCS update sometime down the track?
I'd like to, be reproducing all this again would be far too time consuming.
Hey Phil, how come you don't try flying the 190 against the Spitfire??
Because I don't own the DCS 190, and DCS isn't like IL2, you can't just jump in a module and press "I" and go. It takes practice and effort to learn the modules in DCS. I don't have that time.
@@philstyle Fairy Nuff m8. I'd still be interested in a comparison with the IL-2 effort, but obviously your call.
@@philstyle you can do Left Win + Home to do a quick start for future reference
at 18 min when the 190 pilot bailed his engine stopped also ??
Yes.
Hi. Plz tell what maps are you using?
DCS, Normandy map
Il2, Rhineland map
@@philstyle thank you
From a total noob's point of view, the biggest difference I noticed is the damage model. Maybe in DCS is just not graphically shown but it actually works the same as IL2?
I love the flight and damage modeling in IL-2.
It is fantastic and nuanced, and you feel the difference when there is a gaping whole in your wing or you've lost a piece of something, and things like having a control rod to an aileron snap because your wing took a hit in precisely the right spot is excellent.
Actually the flight model is totally different. It is a major difference when you flight while using force feedback joystick. All Il2 models feels like solid bricks on railway, almost immune to stalls and wake turbulence. DCS models on other hand are very unstable and easy to feel corner speed and stall's. Generally the DCS flight model is far superior. On the other hand, Il2 is more versatile and finished product in terms of war birds.
DCS ai has always been bad and is still broken but occasionally I will have a good dogfight. My biggest gripe is not their ufo abilities but they are and always have been bullet sponges. Better now but still bad. A typical "fight" with a warbird. I get on their 6 and open em up. Lots of pieces,parts and smoke but they limp off. I have even used unlimited ammo and shot until my hand hurt. ME on the other hand must be flying a balsa plane covered in gun power soaked rice paper. Each of their rounds is that "golden bb" and is always a headshot or a critical systems hit.
Great fighting Phil.
Interesting comaprison, but the AI is not going to properly handle a boom'n'zoomer. Sure, it's better in DCS, but still crap if know what you're doing.
If you want to test the AI in a different situation, then fly the spitfire against another spit. I'd love to see you beat the spit in DCS on excellent :D
He knocked out at the stick and kissed the hard deck
The Battle of Britain game has great ai but needs a superior computer to run it do to its mass of aircraft !
Please try this experiment with the Dora, G14, and K4...the true dog fighters for Germany. Anton...is their fat brother. Nice vid!
If both Sims had a spitfire XIV I would.
Interesting. It's a shame that today came a DCS ai update... i assume this is done previously
Phil states so in the comments
The AI in IL-2 is TERRIBLE at flying the Fw 190As. A better test might be Spit IX against Bf 109K4, because the IL-2 AI can actually handle the 109s.
That being said, the AI in IL-2 is not really very interesting to fight against in any case.
Hello Phil.... I love your accent... You speaks a English, it's so perfect. I can understand every word ❤️... And then in your excellent English speaking words you switch in to the Focke Wulf 190 words in perfect German, without a accent.... That is very funny to hear....Phil ich liebe Deine Videos... 😍😍😍. I see the vids in my living room on my Great TV. ❤️😍❤️... Are yo a German with English roots?
Hi wolfskid, thanks... Ich bin Neuseelander, aber Ich wohne in Bayern :)
NULLI SECUNDUS!!
Wings over the Reich AI next please :)
I know this is an AI video but man...graphics, colors, attention to detail in cockpit modeling are just so much better in DCS.
Do many people play multiplayer? Is it all K4s on the German side? I wish DCS had a flyable Gustav (G-6 or G-14) to really liven things up. A Spit XIV could accomplish the same thing though.
DCS multiplayer is pretty quiet. Everyone is waiting for the updated DM to be released. Then I think it will get busy.
You shouldn't be surprised that DCS looks better when their one single plane module can cost as much as a whole expansion including 8 planes in IL2 ! DCS is for rich boys
@@OrangeApocalypse On the other hand, I've got hundreds of hours out of just the Spitfire in DCS. The DCS modules are all so differnt from each other that you can't really get skilled in more than one or two aircraft, unless you don't have a job or a life outside of gaming.
Yep the modules are top notch in DCS which is why i have all 4 of the helo modules (my primary passion) and no other sim even comes close to DCS helo flying. I myself mostly fly the Huey and like you say you need to get skilled because the modules are complex. There you are kind of limiting yourself to just the one or two aircraft to learn them. If you want to be able to fly a large assortment of planes, with minimal faffing about flicking bunches of buttons and do it a lot cheaper, then IL2 is great.
To enjoy IL2 single player, then you need to be putting that AI on Ace, and at least 2 vs you so you can't just sit there on their tail, you have to watch your ass. Of course no AI will be as good as flying against a real player, so get yourself in a server and the game will shine
Why not fly against a human
Because in order to test the AI, you have to fly against the AI.
That, I would expect, is pretty obvious.
@@philstyle your title says nothing about AI.
People see the title and think 1v1 means you're flying against an actual human.