Why I Directed One Last Time
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- Опубліковано 4 чер 2024
- I talk about how it happened that I made one last game in the role of Game Director, for The Outer Worlds.
Videos I reference:
Why I Left Carbine's WildStar: • Why I Left Carbine's W...
Developing South Park: The Stick Of Truth: • Developing South Park:...
Game Development Caution: • Game Development Caution - Ігри
when i saw the title i thought you directed a movie called one last time
Same.
Similar title really and just as stressful
I thought he meant directed an orchestra. Then I thought no that can’t be must mean he directed traffic somewhere. Sounded like a boring video so I did not watch.
A TV drama about a single mother and a handicapped kid in a southern state that have a last one chance at being a family. I'd have watched that with my mom when I was 10.
Same
"Tim, can you give us directions?"
"No" *punch
*sigh* CAIN PUNCH
@@alma3884052 xD
But I only wanted directions to the Hub and Junktown
It's so incredibly heart warming to hear that your most important requirement for being a director again was being able to work with an old friend and coworker. I loved this story.
I felt Tim was a great guy but this sealed the deal. Friendship magic ftw.
May we all be so lucky to have friendships like the one between Leonard and Tim!
The Outer Worlds was my favorite game of 2019. So, from a random stranger on the internet, thank you so much for stepping up to the role of game director for it
same here...people like to hate on it, but to me it was very fresh, and just FUN
@zb3485 the dialogue was snappy, the art direction was great, the different skills felt like they truly defined who your character was. It was a super refreshing game imo and I'm definitely looking forward to the sequel
🤷♂️ ppl have different opinions. Don't see many ppl hating on it. I certainly didn't hate it but for me that was it, I don't feel strongly about it in any way.
This!
@@zb3485 I dont think people hate on it just it wasn't that good of a game honestly especially compared to their other works. like the story was kind of a mess. the humor was mostly flat, the game didn't look great and neither was the combat. like maybe ill go back to it and try again to see if im wrong but who knows.
"I saw meetings I'm glad I wasn't in." I feel that.
I was a witness of that type of meeting
Tim, from the bottom of my heart I want to thank you; I really loved the outer worlds in a really special way. The outer worlds released right when my mom passed. I can’t describe to you, how much that game just helped me spend some time every day in a peaceful zone and really loved it just as much as fnv. Whole different atmosphere and feel, but it’s just such a very charming game and love your rpg style Tim. Really helped me during the darkest time of my life, and I can’t wait to play the second. Wish you directed that one too!
I'm sure from your perspective hiring Leonard was an unreasonable ask but if the heads at Obsidian were anything like me, asking for 2/3rds of the original Fallout/Troika team back in action was just letting them bribe you with your own money. It also made it an instant buy for me.
"fulcrum of stress" made me giggle. In a weird way, this video reads like a comedy sketch. Tim just wants to program, and tries to dodge everyones attempts to make him game director.
Bro just wants to grill, I mean program
This comment makes me think if a sitcom in an IT (or even gamedev) company could actually work.
@@BlueHarvey The Irvine Office would be peak cringe humour, can't wait to see the episode with the breast milk thief :x
Glad to hear Leonard is working on OW2. I guess I could have assumed but as a lay person sometimes it's hard to see who is working on new projects unless you follow them closely as an individual in my experience. I usually just wait for a game to come out and see who worked on it after the fact
Same, I’m very Happy to hear that Leonard is a part of Outer Worlds 2
I interpreted this as overwatch 2 and was, for a moment, so utterly crushed that his talents were being wasted
Your work relationship with Leonard is also an endearing 'bromance' that you love to see. You challenge each other, you know how to weed things out and you obviously are super close friends because of all those years together. Warms the heart, truly.
Tim, I can't express enough how much I lament your (semi)retirement. Even more so, seeing as IPs I used to love degrade nowadays. I bet you and Leonard could make an amazing vampire game (once again).
How else thought the demand would be chocolate?
you radiate good vibes. had a dream last night you were one of my professors, and you were really polite while i talked your ear off on the phone
Well technically everyone should be excited for Outer Worlds 2, I know the mission statement was to establish a new IP and the second mission is to swing for the fences, so I am personally very excited.
It's also much easier to guide a team for a second installment. Imo, for a new IP, so much extra effort goes to "waste" trying to get everyone on the same page. Once the first game is out you can just point to it and say "we're making that, but better", and the whole studio can immediately understand the assignment.
@@Validifyed exactly, which is why I think Tim’s leadership was paramount as he understood that.
Not gonna lie, the trailer really put me off but I hope it turns out good.
@@sonicwave779 it's just a teaser trailer to let us know the game is, in fact, in development. It amounts to nothing right now.
I love your punch photo with Leonard! A good design meeting is only complete if somebody was knocked unconscious in the process :)
Yeah, I had no idea that when I kept asking you to come to the pitch meetings that the Owners already had an idea they were already committed to. I had no idea they had an idea at all. I'm still glad you gave your magic to TOW anyways though. I wish it had been a better experience though.
You and Leonard together is amazing also. Glad I got to witness it.
Oh, I had a pretty good time, and it was great to make a game with Leon again. Thanks for giving me a kick in the pants.
@@CainOnGames Do fallout under the sea next.
Bioshock.
I imagine you asked Josh Sawyer a bunch about the decisions behind Fallout New Vegas, could you share some of those conversations?
Always love hearing the NV team talk about that game. What an incredible accomplishment despite how little time they had, almost set up to fail. My all time favorite RPG. I've played it 20 times, a couple thousand hours and I can still start a new game and go deep into a new role play.
@@geordiejones5618 People keep feeding Bethesda, Bethesda keeps raping their employees.
@@geordiejones5618 They couldn't have asked for more than what Bethesda gave them. all the assets from fallout 3 and a ready-made RPG engine, to make the fallout game they've been working on for FAR longer than just 1.5 years.
People like to imagine what it would be like with more development time but if you pay close enough attention you realize they got almost everything in there. It couldn't get much better than the final product.
@@DanielFerreira-ez8qd I mostly agree with your point, but the game clearly could have benefitted from a longer development time, for QA and bug fixing if nothing else. They wanted and did a lot of the work for an endgame after the main story, which would have added another level to new vegas. Whether the shortened development time was imposed by Bethesda or Obsidian leadership is another matter entirely.
@@Azer398 Well that was my point, if they were given more time, what do you think they would choose?
A lot of people think of the endgame content, the little trimmed pieces of the game still left in the files somewhat. But with the state the game came out I can only imagine they'd want to fix all the memory problems instead - I mean, most of what they cut wasn't crucial anyway, I think their only regret was to cut a few Legion quests, which would be nice but I still believe it wouldn't have changed much at the end of the day.
Tim, The Outer Worlds was my 2019 GOTY; really one of my favorite games of the last 10 - 15 years. Played through it at least 5 times (twice including both expansions).
There is so much heart, spunk, creativity and raw fun to be had playing TOW; you never get hung up on ‘crunchy’ minutiae - rather you can just enjoy the moment-to-moment flow of roleplaying, dialogue, action, story beats etc. and IMHO, the humor is fantastic! The companions are also among my favorites in modern games.
Thanks so much to you, Leonard and your team for making this - can’t wait for the sequel!! 🤜🤛
Wow. this is Crazy. Hearing you mention all of those games I never knew you were a part of. You've been on the team of almost all of my favorite games, including the outer worlds, and all that can't be a coincidence. Sincerely Tim, thank you for all of your hard work over the years. I love what you do.
The Outer Worlds was my game of 2019 and my hype for it was immensely spurred on by the "reveal" that you and Leonard were leading it. Although I thought YOU were Leonard and vice versa because I had never seen your faces before.
Leonard is the unaging one.
Also tyranny was fun; I forgot that was you. The combat system was so unique to me, a very modern gamer, not sure if it was a more common archetype in the 90’s. Go you Mr. Cain! As always I appreciate your hard work!
Personally, I really liked the Lore skill in Tyranny. Was it OP? Sure, but it was also heaps of fun.
Detailed discussion is one of my favorite things to do. It just feels so good to get so much done. It's hard to find someone who jives with you enough to do it though, because if there's any pettiness or ego involved it doesn't work. You just end up attacking each other instead.
Moral of the story: friendship always wins
I'm thankful you came back for one more adventure in the director's chair. I love "The Outer Worlds" so much, still playing it trying different character builds even now.
As a beginner in indie game development, that last part really hit home. Making one decision just makes so many ripples I hadn't anticipated. I am getting better with that with more experience and I have really learned that careful planning is paramount to a good game. I totally get why you would want an experienced director after experiencing some of these things and wasting a lot of time fixing or removing systems because I hadn't thought about implications it would have elsewhere
I love your friendship with Leonard. Loved watching you guys play Fallout on that charity stream together and I loved hearing you guys talk about your time at Troika and I loved hearing about what a G he was yelling at that publisher who yelled at you at programming in C. Hope you'll being him back on your channel.
You know Obsidian wants to make a great game when they ask the creator of Fallout to be its director.
huh! I didn't knew that you directed a game called "One Last Time"
i hope that he is joking :(
@@Jaqinta he's not, he said he wasn't gonna direct OW2 and is semi-retired from the industry now
Honestly. It sounds like a pretty cool title for a game !
I don’t know what’s more sweet Tim demanding that Leonard co-direct or his special thanks in the credits:
“To Robert for being INCREDIBLY patient”
Started The Outer Worlds earlier this week and I can’t put it down. Amazing game
Hey Tim, not sure if you addressed it before but I was curious about if you were planning to do a chat with Jason Anderson or talk about how that collaboration was. It's been great hearing about and from Leonard in your videos. It would be very interesting for example to get some insight into the Vampire development and all that.
So happy that your last directing gig wasn't the Wildstar carcrash (which I didn't even know about until today), that would have been tragic to end on such a sour note. Plus I'm very grateful to have Outer Worlds as I enjoyed it immensely.
Any chance we could get an in-depth comparison between the process of directing a top-down turn based RPG like Temple/Fallout and a FPP action RPG like Outer Worlds? From the outside they seem like drastically different processes
You and Leonard are such a dream team. I wish I could find my Leonard. I’ll have to continue solo until then.
Tim, Outer World's is within my top 3 games of all time. Thank you for making it. Being able to combine RPG with an FPS and have a satrical, capatalistic future space setting, it blew me away. Loved that you're still involved in the upcoming sequel. Day 1 purchase for me.
The pre release marketing with you and Leonard discussing the Outer Worlds was the first time I really became aware of you two and the work you've done on games I love.
I'm glad you ended up doing it! Can't wait to see how the sequel shapes up.
That’s a great story, you have a very strong point about some people just click together, like you and Leonard apparently do. Sometimes that’s what it takes to get the best out of us. I need to go back and revisit outer worlds, I never finished it originally.
Loved what you guys did with The Outer Worlds, wish you would have stayed on for the sequel, would have been awesome to see what you guys could have done with more time and resources
I really thought you were going to say "a singularity of stress".
The 'browned around the edges... I should make cookies" sounded like something I'd have said, love it! 😁. Now I want cookies tho.
From the outside perspective, and possibly even in reality, the duo of you and Leonard reminds of Tyson Rios and Elliot Salem from the games “Army of Two”. Not in the terrorist fighting way (although this can be argued due to the issues Interplay was causing after you left) but more in the sense that, you both are extremely talented and dedicated individually, but when working together as a duo you guys can climb mountains backwards. Along with what seems to be unwavering loyalty. I’m sure you guys don’t see eye to eye on everything, but that’s good as it would mean you both have strong opinions that you stand by, even when faced with adversity from the other, and come to meaningful resolutions that always seem to benefit the project. I love the stories you tell that include Leonard as they always have such impactful morals to the story. Be it following your own intuition and beliefs, to having the back of those that have yours. I love it. Thank you as always for sharing your stories and life with strangers on the internet as it always gives me the extra confidence and motivation needed to tackle my own projects that seems insurmountable. Cheers from New York!
Such a fun and interesting video. My favorite. Sneak leak into development, relationships and how things sometimes come together
I didn't know, I thought that you and Leonard had joined Obsidian together, so thank you so much for sharing this.
As for The Outer Worlds, I absolutely love that game.
I remember when I experienced the first dialogues and the humor within them, I was instantly reminded of the writing of the first Fallout game.
After listening to all Tim Cain videos for a year, I do wish he would do one last game with him maybe being a director on it. That became my dream, we need to kickstart this idea.
Although that would be somewhat the ending so maybe let's not end Tim Cain career just yet :P
Your point about deep discussions and "hashing it out" is....on point. I recently read an interview with lead designer of Kingdom Come Deliverance, and he says (first line is question by interviewer) :
Q: And during those years, did you have any design idea that might have divided the team and there was no agreement on it for a long time?
A: When developing any more complex work, you have some overall vision and then a thousand of other small visions, little things, interesting things. The contradictions and arguments are the best thing about a joint creative work, so we definitely discussed a lot about many things, argued here and there, looked for a compromise here and there. That's a necessary part of a game this big, and I think it's the best thing for it, because if you don't doubt, it's easy to fall into self-delusion. Of course, I won't bring out any particular drama, but I really think that it's an important part of the development and it's good when there are disagreements. The result is even better.
Getting Leonard on board has the same vibe as Jake and Elwood Blues reconnecting and getting the band back together (minus the stay in Joliet Prison).
I love hearing early development behind the scenes stories like this, almost sounds like a movie! As always, thanks for sharing Tim!
06:50 "the most important thing, [...]I didn't think they were able to provide"
Me: "Let it be Leonard! That would make it such a sweet story!"
07:08 "...hire Leonard"
I love it!
Loving all the industry wisdom and behind the scenes stories from Tim.
Thanks for making these video and some truly genre defining games.
Eesh. I remember watching the Wildstar videos. Glad you had such a good time to detox on that experience in Obsidian, and more importantly that you have someone you know you can work with at such a productive level for all these years. Thank you for sharing this, like all other videos these are very insightful. I hope everything turns out great with Outer Wilds 2!
Yes, you should make cookies, enough to share with all of us!
I see you have many ways you roll and this how you rolled. I never realised that those two compliments are same still funny every time you clarify it.
I actually wasn't very awarenof Leonard before this channel, but after learning some about him and his track record hes definitely a name im going to keep an eye out for when finding games in the future.
Thank you so, so much to you and Leonard for making it happen. The Outer Worlds is one of my favourite games of all time, a true masterpiece.
So glad you guys made the game. And I hope for many sequels and spin offs. Maybe even a live action adaptation, it's a solid setting.
Glad that you did ! I really enjoyed outer worlds, it was a great effort, especially considering the smaller team and limited budget. so fun! cant wait for the sequel, good to hear that you are still a little involved in that one 💪🏼💪🏼
The Outer Worlds is one of my absolute favorite video games. I love the art and the way that skills work, and good grief that narrative. I was able to bond with my son’s new step parent over it. That game really ended up meaning quite a bit to me in multiple ways. It’s a technical achievement, a soulful commentary on ownership and dystopian capitalism, and the humor was a welcome breath of fresh air.
Thank you for making this video, it was very interesting to know that everything hung on Leonard joining you again. I love that story. Thank you also for sharing it with us.
I am playing outer worlds for the first time right now, all good, lot of fun so far, so thank you for being apart of the making of it, I really am enjoying it so far
Thanks for sharing Tim
Well, thank you for what games you have given us and the videos you currently give us.
This is tangential but I'm glad you mentioned Tyranny because it was one of the most unique CRPG experiences I've had. I know it's a pipe dream but I'd like to see more of that setting. To me, it's more thematically interesting than Pillars by a long shot.
Part of the reason I bought the game and the dlc was to support you and Leonard. Glad I did. Great game you made there.
Hey Tim, I'm a new viewer and I have been enjoying watching your videos a lot.
You have mentioned a couple times that you loved table top games and I would love to get more videos about Tim's table top tales or if someone could direct me to some videos you have already done that would be great as well.
Anyway thank you for your videos, a lot of us really like you and the videos you make. Keep up the good work. 😁👍
Makes sense, Leonard seems a very cool guy from the interviews I've seen.
Hi Tim, I just want to say that although I’m not much of a game dev other than Roblox, I really really enjoy your videos and look forward to seeing your daily uploads and listening while at work, I’ve binged most all your videos through those means! You’re such a positive and inspiring figure in the recent months since discovering you and I appreciate the effort you put into telling your stories and being a voice for all devs out there new or old! Hope you keep on doing well tim and godspeed in all your future endeavors!:)
I love that his initial state was, "I am here to code, go away."
That game went hard Mr. Cain. Thank you for your hard work
I hope those people who weren't ready before the Outer Worlds are up to the task now. From what I can tell both of the big projects at Obsidian right now are being led by people who were in that pipeline you described. I started to notice Carrie Patel around Deadfire and that was a really great time, and I'm very excited for Avowed/the current state of Obsidian that looks ready to put bigger RPGs out on a regular basis.
I really hope you can create more IP’s with Leonard in the future, you guys rock! Maybe even add Jason into the mix in the future! 😎👍
I knew the reason even before You said it:D
Seriously - You and Leonard Boyarsky are just ment to be making games together!
Pretty much every game You made as a duo is legendary so I'm not gonna lie... I'm a bit heartbroken that You're no longer working at Obsidian with him
Also... on personal level... Your friendship with Leonard is really sweet.
Tim still does work with Obsidian and on TOW2 (he talked about brainstorming new product slogans or something in an earlier video), just not in-house full time!
Hey, Tim!
How do you resolve the conflict between player skill and their character's ability in an Action RPG?
To elaborate with an example: Fallout in the past was all about skill checks and dice rolls, but starting with FO3 the first person shooter aspect became more emphasized with each release. Where's the line between letting the player be a good shot because the game mechanics allow them to and the player being a good shot because they built a character that is a good shot?
Obsidian called your bluff.
I love that. :D
Thanks for answering my question! :)
If im honest when you mention the whole ''It was supposed to be a temp job'' i just tought of Ryan from the office.
Can’t wait for the Tim Cain biopic someday
Tim: what I heard you describe with Leonard is a great example of synergy. Something greater came about because of how you work together.
lol I love how you added clarification for how you 'complimented each other'
I also chose to step down because of changes in the market and in the colleagues I work with, coupled with being exhausted from too much responsibility over the years. I always saw it as my fault - I blamed myself for being good only at certain aspects of design and only in certain genres. But, if we're employees, some things are mostly out of our control, including the processes and culture of the studios we work for. The "Why I left Carbine's Wildstar" video got my stomach in knots because it mirrored a lot of my own experiences but the incredible fact that it happened to the great Tim Cain was a very good reminder that this is just something that may happen if you're doing game design. Now I'm also in a technical role and will leave it only if a good opportunity presents itself.
Playing Outer Worlds now and loving it. It's interesting to play it after watching this channel since I can see the implementation of a lot of the things you have talked about. One very random thing I was curious about was, when playing a game called tides of numenera I noticed that it was built partially using tech licensed from pillars of eternity, not sure if you could talk about it but I'd be interested in what it was and how the licensing came about. Thanks!
I knew it was going to be Leonard Boyarsky before he even said. Love the fallout/troika duos.
I bet you got a fantastic hat collection Tim.
I think that it's great you had the gas to make another game with some amazing people and I think you'll be really glad you did it like if you didn't it would have been a major regret in your life
Appreciate the parting gift.
Hi Tim! Thanks for another video, as always.
I asked this question in another video, but since it's relevant again: Since you typically don't like working on sequels, what is it about Outer Worlds 2 that made you want to work on it? Was it to have more time with Chef Boyarsky (Boyardee)? Or was there a greater creative challenge for you?
I understand and respect if you can't answer this due to there being things about the game that are not public knowledge yet, and would be happy to wait for an answer post-launch of The Outer Worlds 2.
Thank you for time, videos, and perspectives!
I have a question I would love to hear your take on since it plagues me almost daily. When working on a project, how do you stay focused and motivated on your current project while having so many ideas for other games you want to make? When I have an idea that really hits me, sometimes I find it difficult to make progress on my current project because I can't stop thinking about ideas for whatever new idea I am currently fixated on.
Great video! It lead me to other I haven't seen yet, and one about the storytelling in MMOs. It made me think, have you played Fallout 76? Did you like it (if yes)? And moreover - what do you think about the storytelling there?
Hey uncle Tim could you please do a FAQ volume 2?
Like why is the day/night cycle 22-25 minutes long in games?
player character VS meta knowledge in RPG games?
I’m super happy you did.
“Mmm I should make cookies” in the middle of a rant lmfaooooo
Hi Tim, it's everyone!
2:24 it took me a few seconds to realize that you didn’t mean literal hats.
I was picturing you in the office with multiple baseball caps stacked on one another, and you with the biggest smile in the world because you like multiple hats.
Im really excited for outer worlds 2 hope it turns out great :)
Ty Tim ! Quick question for you. How do you decide from a strictly creative standpoint when to stop creating your 'thing' (game, song, tulpa, etc.)? Writing a main story for a game and implementing those main quests sounds fun, but what sounds even better is creating side quests in this world you've created -- so many characters and interactions and avenues for storytelling that aren't constrained by the main story beats! Could do that forever, which would be bad bc the game never comes out. I understand that producers, budget, and deadlines come along to make the decision of when to stop for you, but in a world without those forces, how do you, the creator, know? How do you have that convo with yourself of 'this is complete and if I keep adding and tweaking I'm gonna diminish what I have' curious what you think either way ty for the channel!
Hi Tim. Is your signature (and Leonard’s) on one of those The Outer World posters signed by the Obsidian team at Gamecraft Brewing in Laguna Niguel? If so,
I gotta check it out next time I’m there for beer and board games.
Hi Tim!
Thanks for the great content.
I have a question: how did your team manage in-game writing during Fallout? I remember you said that people on the team were wearing multiple hats and several people were involved in writing. I believe there was no Lead Writer on the project. But who did the editing, provided feedback on the writing, checked the consistency in different people's writing, etc?
Well... in that case, thank you Leonard! And Tim, of course 🙂
Looking forward to The Outer Worlds 2!
Simple answer but good reminder that who you work with is very important
I think maybe they understood that he was your other half in game directing and while you could do without him with him gave best environment/results rare to find that without ego tearing it apart in the long run.
Hi, Tim!
Did you guys ever discuss what could mutants be before the Fallout 1?
Who could haunt Harold's caravans?
Because supermutants always seemed very Master-specific to me. Even tho the process of their creation isn't particularly complicated or specific.
I'm so happy they pulled a rabbit out of their hats and called your bluff. Outer Worlds is one of the best RPG's of all time and a game I use as inspiration for my game! Now we just need to figure out how to trick you into making one more game.